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Old 06-11-2019, 09:20 AM   #2801
Huinesoron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pervinca Took View Post
Not Gandalf's 'rescue' of Theoden?

(I have a feeling I am getting colder).
Well that's a very grim description of Edoras.

This riddle is actually entirely literal.

New page:

Under shadow, under earth,
By foul magics hid from sight.
To the deepest place I venture,
And its denizen bring to light.


hS
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:25 AM   #2802
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Sam's rescue of Frodo?
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:27 AM   #2803
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Sam's rescue of Frodo?
I can see where you're going with that, but no.

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Old 06-11-2019, 09:28 AM   #2804
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If it weren't for your hints, I'd say Beleg, or Gwindor.
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:31 AM   #2805
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If it weren't for your hints, I'd say Beleg, or Gwindor.
They wouldn't fit the whole riddle, though.

hS
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:31 AM   #2806
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Well that's a very grim description of Edoras.

This riddle is actually entirely literal.

New page:

Under shadow, under earth,
By foul magics hid from sight.
To the deepest place I venture,
And its denizen bring to light.


hS
But if it's entirely literal, there's nowhere deeper than the depths of Moria, unless you're talking about an obscure mermaid or something. Or a castaway Silmaril (which would take us into the future).
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:34 AM   #2807
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Wait, then the speaker themselves are hidden from sight by evil magics, as opposed to the place they ventured to? And yet, they bring someone to light, implying that they are a good person......
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:40 AM   #2808
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But if it's entirely literal, there's nowhere deeper than the depths of Moria, unless you're talking about an obscure mermaid or something. Or a castaway Silmaril (which would take us into the future).
The implication is 'deepest in [somewhere]', not globally deepest. I could never calculate whether Utumno, Moria, or Mandos ran deepest.

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Wait, then the speaker themselves are hidden from sight by evil magics, as opposed to the place they ventured to? And yet, they bring someone to light, implying that they are a good person......
Yes and yes.

hS
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:43 AM   #2809
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Then it's one of the bearers of One Ring, for that's the only thing of evil magics that could hide someone from sight.
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:48 AM   #2810
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Except that none of them fit the whole riddle either, even though they do fit parts of it. (Well, Sam does, but you said no to that)
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:50 AM   #2811
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Then it's one of the bearers of One Ring, for that's the only thing of evil magics that could hide someone from sight.
It is!

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Except that none of them fit the whole riddle either, even though they do fit parts of it. (Well, Sam does, but you said no to that)
I promise you're wrong.

hS
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:53 AM   #2812
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Ring

It's Bilbo's rescue of Thorin from Thranduil's dungeon, isn't it?
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:56 AM   #2813
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Then it's either Bilbo or Frodo, and Bilbo fits better, because he visited Taur-nu-Fuin
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:09 AM   #2814
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Assuming my guess is correct, here's the explanation:

Under shadow, under earth, -In subterranean halls in Mirkwood.
By foul magics hid from sight. -Made invisible by the Ring.
To the deepest place I venture,
And its denizen bring to light.
-Thorin was imprisoned "far down in a deep place".
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:10 AM   #2815
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It's Bilbo's rescue of Thorin from Thranduil's dungeon, isn't it?
We have a winner! Explanation is exactly as you say.

I was expecting to decoy you all by making it all sound evil (hence 'denizen' in particular), but Urwen clocked immediately that 'brought to light' implied a good character.

hS
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:22 AM   #2816
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I did that with Huan once. Before your time, I think.

For salvation given,
From a cold hand taken
That vows be kept
In a land forsaken.

Brought down years uncounted,
From lands sea-riven,
From a cold hand taken
For salvation given.
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:23 AM   #2817
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That also elicited my silly Les Mis comment. Valjean sings 'And I will bring her [Cosette] to the light.'
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:24 AM   #2818
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I did that with Huan once. Before your time, I think.

For salvation given,
From a cold hand taken
That vows be kept
In a land forsaken.

Brought down years uncounted,
From lands sea-riven,
From a cold hand taken
For salvation given.
Could it be the Ring of Barahir?
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:26 AM   #2819
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Yep!
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:27 AM   #2820
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Ring of Barahir?


For salvation given - To Barahir
From a cold hand taken -
Barahir's
That vows be kept -
Finrod to Beren
In a land forsaken. -
Beleriand

Brought down years uncounted,
From lands sea-riven, -
One of heirlooms of Numenor
From a cold hand taken
For salvation given.
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:28 AM   #2821
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I am sure getting ninjaed a lot today.....
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:30 AM   #2822
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Yes, and that's the correct explanation (with the last bit referring to Arvedui giving the ring to the Lossoth). But I'm afraid Pervinca got in before you, so it's her turn.
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:35 AM   #2823
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Take it if you like, Urwen. I'd have been a little slower if I'd stopped to write explanations.
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:38 AM   #2824
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Nah. Make one.
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:48 AM   #2825
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No time! You do it.
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:08 AM   #2826
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In the first
I was given to him by a foster mother
Though ultimately
I was meant for his blood brother

In the third
I was given to those who sought flame
Though they ultimately parted ways
Could you guess my name?
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:56 PM   #2827
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Leaf

Lembas?

In the first
I was given to him by a foster mother
Though ultimately
I was meant for his blood brother
-Melian gave Beleg lembas for Túrin, whom she had fostered and who could be described as "blood brother" to Beleg.

In the third
I was given to those who sought flame
Though they ultimately parted ways
Could you guess my name?
-Galadriel gave lembas to the Fellowship of the Ring, whose goal was Mt Doom.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:00 AM   #2828
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Thumbs up

Yup.
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Old 06-12-2019, 05:20 AM   #2829
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Blood of two peoples made me.
He I trusted tried to undo me.
He that I hated saved me.
He that was loyal slew me.
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Old 06-12-2019, 05:31 AM   #2830
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Beleg? He trusted Mim, he was saved by Androg, whom he mistrusted, and his best friend killed him.
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:38 AM   #2831
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Beleg? He trusted Mim, he was saved by Androg, whom he mistrusted, and his best friend killed him.
No. I thought someone would guess Beleg- but how would you explain the first line?
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:42 AM   #2832
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Turin then? He was born from Houses of Hador and Beor, he hated Brandir, who saved his life after he came to Brethil, and he was slain by Anglachel, which was loyal to Beleg.
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:47 AM   #2833
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Turin then? He was born from Houses of Hador and Beor, he hated Brandir, who saved his life after he came to Brethil, and he was slain by Anglachel, which was loyal to Beleg.
Well, loyal to Beleg apart from that time when it sort of wasn't... but yes, Túrin would fit. It's not him, however.
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:50 AM   #2834
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One of Half-Elven, then?
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:01 AM   #2835
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*declines to answer*

I'm only going to confirm or deny specific guesses, not broad categories. I think that's fair.
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:23 AM   #2836
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Faramir? His parents were people of Dol Amroth and Gondor, his father tried to burn him, and Gandalf saved him (Presumably, he, like his father, disliked Gandalf, though I have no hard proof of that)
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:27 AM   #2837
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Faramir? His parents were people of Dol Amroth and Gondor, his father tried to burn him, and Gandalf saved him (Presumably, he, like his father, disliked Gandalf, though I have no hard proof of that)
Actually I'm pretty sure he held Gandalf in high regard- remember how he spoke of him to the Hobbits? Also, when was Faramir "slain"?
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:30 AM   #2838
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Well, I doubt anyone in the Tolkien-verse really hated anyone else (Maeglin, Mim and other bad guys being the exception, but then again, none of them were saved by anyone)


And why would this person be saved by someone they hated? Makes no sense to me.
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:47 AM   #2839
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Originally Posted by Urwen View Post
Well, I doubt anyone in the Tolkien-verse really hated anyone else (Maeglin, Mim and other bad guys being the exception, but then again, none of them were saved by anyone)
Highly debatable, I'd say. (And Maeglin's life was saved by his mother, actually, though that's neither here nor there.)

At any rate the person in question was certainly very badly disposed towards the other party.

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And why would this person be saved by someone they hated? Makes no sense to me.
Exactly. WHY?
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:56 AM   #2840
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Yeah, but he didn't hate her.
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