Grond and the face of Carcharoth - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Alfirin · 11-22-2007, 08:16 AM

Greetings,
I proposed the below theory on before in an earlier thread but as that thread was extremey old when I posted it (so many may not have read it) and becuse I feel the theory is so intersting I though it might be well to give this theory a thread of its own okay here goes.

My theory is that the wolf head the made up the front of Grond (The battering ram, not Melkor's mace) was supposed to be an image of Carcaroth. There is i feel a slight linguistic backing for this Carcarths other name (after he swallowed the Silmaril) was Anfaugulir. This is usually translated as "the Jaws of Thirst" however the two Sindarin root worlds that make up the name could just as easily be read as "The Jaws which Gape" When Tolkein describes the head of Grond he specifies that it head is shape in the likness of a ravening wolf. According to my dictionary ravening in this context would mean hungry, greedy, or rapacios. And it seems to me that the only way you could show such as state in a static statue of a wolf would be to sculpt it with wide-open gaping jaws.

I know that the above is pure conjecture and that it flies in the face of a basic Tolkein assumption (the old "if Tolkein had meant it, Tolkein would have said it" line) but the theroy seems to make sense to me. What do you think?

The Might · 11-22-2007, 09:47 AM

I think this idea is quite plausible, especially since the name also is a reference to the first age. As Sauron was after all the Lord of the Werewolves, it makes sense that he would have used this as inspiration for Grond.
And since Grond as a name remembered of one of the greatest weapons ever made, why wouldn't the shape remember of the greatest wolf to ever exist.
The linguistic part only supports this.
All in all, it makes to me more sense that it was Carcharoth/Draugluin or Sauron himself in wolf shape rather then some regular wolf.

Galadriel55 · 02-27-2011, 09:26 AM

Interesting theory! Quite possible. And I believe that Grond had fire burning in it, so that could be a representation of the flame/power of the Silmarilli.

11-22-2007, 08:16 AM	#1
Alfirin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 435	Grond and the face of Carcharoth Greetings, I proposed the below theory on before in an earlier thread but as that thread was extremey old when I posted it (so many may not have read it) and becuse I feel the theory is so intersting I though it might be well to give this theory a thread of its own okay here goes. My theory is that the wolf head the made up the front of Grond (The battering ram, not Melkor's mace) was supposed to be an image of Carcaroth. There is i feel a slight linguistic backing for this Carcarths other name (after he swallowed the Silmaril) was Anfaugulir. This is usually translated as "the Jaws of Thirst" however the two Sindarin root worlds that make up the name could just as easily be read as "The Jaws which Gape" When Tolkein describes the head of Grond he specifies that it head is shape in the likness of a ravening wolf. According to my dictionary ravening in this context would mean hungry, greedy, or rapacios. And it seems to me that the only way you could show such as state in a static statue of a wolf would be to sculpt it with wide-open gaping jaws. I know that the above is pure conjecture and that it flies in the face of a basic Tolkein assumption (the old "if Tolkein had meant it, Tolkein would have said it" line) but the theroy seems to make sense to me. What do you think?

11-22-2007, 09:47 AM	#2
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	I think this idea is quite plausible, especially since the name also is a reference to the first age. As Sauron was after all the Lord of the Werewolves, it makes sense that he would have used this as inspiration for Grond. And since Grond as a name remembered of one of the greatest weapons ever made, why wouldn't the shape remember of the greatest wolf to ever exist. The linguistic part only supports this. All in all, it makes to me more sense that it was Carcharoth/Draugluin or Sauron himself in wolf shape rather then some regular wolf. __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

02-27-2011, 09:26 AM	#3
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,321	Interesting theory! Quite possible. And I believe that Grond had fire burning in it, so that could be a representation of the flame/power of the Silmarilli. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera