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Nerwen 02-19-2018 05:35 AM

#6 is also most puzzling, since we know very few Khuzdul personal names, and none beginning with U (IIRC).

However, in the already-mentioned inscription on Balin's tomb,Balin Fundinul Uzbad Khazaddumu/Balin son of Fundin, Lord of Moria we have a sort of hybrid patronymic formed from the Mannish name Fundin + -ul. Is the answer simply this ending -ul?

Pervinca Took 02-19-2018 06:17 AM

I was wondering if it was something along those lines.

... It's in 'full.'

Also, if it means 'son of,' I guess males only use that form of patronymic once they're full-grown?

And was that the one of the two remaining unsolved clues where you said the answer was there in the clue?

Pervinca Took 02-19-2018 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron (Post 710553)
Khazad-dum - Before the blackness, seek their doom.
H - The slender bough bears a unique gift, but what meaning does it hold?
Uzbad Khazaddumu - An elder claimed this eldest title, and sought the eldest's crown, but the eldest's servant ended him.
Zirak-Zigil - Here ended the endless; what did the makers make it?
Durin - Seven times named, but twice unnamed; what name is mine but never was?
U - A son full-grown bears his father's name in full.
Lahgaza [Agazhal] - Fall back, o masked one, and let the French striplings take the field.

[Theme: Khuzdul]

hS

Just copied onto this page so we can see the clues without having to click back.

H clue:

Possible synonyms for 'meaning' could be SENSE, GIST (which has some of GIFT in it) or POINT.

'Slender bough' could be TWIG or BRANCH 'thinned' by the removal of one or more of its letters. Or perhaps LOG.

Or ROD. But HARHODROND is Elvish, and does not satisfy the other criteria either.

Hmmm ....

Huinesoron 02-19-2018 07:12 AM

Khazad-dum - Before the blackness, seek their doom.
H - The slender bough bears a unique gift, but what meaning does it hold?
Uzbad Khazaddumu - An elder claimed this eldest title, and sought the eldest's crown, but the eldest's servant ended him.
Zirak-Zigil - Here ended the endless; what did the makers make it?
Durin - Seven times named, but twice unnamed; what name is mine but never was?
-Ul - A son full-grown bears his father's name in full.
Lahgaza [Agazhal] - Fall back, o masked one, and let the French striplings take the field.

[Theme: Khuzdul]

'-ul' it is, and Balin (the only use I know of) was full-grown at the time. More - he was as full as he would ever be grown, since he was, y'know... dead. (And yeah... it's 'in fULl'.)

For H: Pervinca, you actually mentioned one of the synonyms you need to find in your most recent post... but not in the right context. EDIT: And now you've said them both...

hS

Pervinca Took 02-19-2018 07:18 AM

I suppose the synonyms need translating into Khuzdul.

Huinesoron 02-19-2018 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 710570)
I suppose the synonyms need translating into Khuzdul.

Not even I would be that cruel.

Pervinca Took 02-19-2018 07:41 AM

I can't have mentioned them. They don't combine with H to make anything meaningful.

Huinesoron 02-19-2018 07:52 AM

I never said they did. :D

The 'it' refers back to 'gift', not 'slender bough'.

hS

Nerwen 02-19-2018 08:05 AM

Thinking aloud...

Well, I went and consulted the Ardalambion website, according to which no known word or word element in Khuzdul begins with H ("hazad" is Adûnaic). So if that's right the answer must be a word or phrase translating something in Khuzdul- e.g. HADHODROND might be the right type of answer, anyway.

Huinesoron 02-19-2018 08:27 AM

Indeed, you are digging in the right direction. :)

hS

Pervinca Took 02-19-2018 09:34 AM

Pity Numenor doesn't have a namesake beginning with U.

Pervinca Took 02-19-2018 09:43 AM

Aha!
 
I have a dwarf-connected word beginning with U!

UNCOOKED.

(The kind of dwarves that trolls hate, and which Thorin's company remained).

:D

Huinesoron 02-19-2018 09:49 AM

:D I love it. Next time...!

The 'unique gift' is a name which was given to the 'slender bough'; you are seeking its meaning (in English, as it happens).

hS

Nerwen 02-19-2018 10:00 AM

What about HEWER OF CAVES, translating Felagund? It would be "unique" as the only Dwarven name given to an Elf. The "slender bough" part might then be a play on Fin(e)rod.

Pervinca Took 02-19-2018 10:04 AM

Or might it be a branch of a family tree that we're looking for?

Huinesoron 02-19-2018 10:05 AM

Khazad-dum - Before the blackness, seek their doom.
Hewer of Caves - The slender bough bears a unique gift, but what meaning does it hold?
Uzbad Khazaddumu - An elder claimed this eldest title, and sought the eldest's crown, but the eldest's servant ended him.
Zirak-Zigil - Here ended the endless; what did the makers make it?
Durin - Seven times named, but twice unnamed; what name is mine but never was?
-Ul - A son full-grown bears his father's name in full.
Lahgaza [Agazhal] - Fall back, o masked one, and let the French striplings take the field.

[Theme: Khuzdul]

Dingdingding! Spot on (though I was thinking 'thin rod' in an Essex accent, where 'th' becomes 'f'). The actual gift was Felak-gundu, which was transliterated as Felagund. And that, I believe, is your lot.

If I'm reading the rules right, it's now Pervinca's turn, for getting the password, Khuzdul, back when only one clue had been solved?

hS

Pervinca Took 02-19-2018 10:07 AM

Whoops!
 
I'd actually forgotten that the final answer starts with H, not U!

Pervinca Took 02-19-2018 10:15 AM

Congratulations on your first password, Huinesoron! :) I did post these congratulations before, but I chose quote instead of edit when trying to copy my clues to put in the first answer, and ended up overwriting my words. Not the first time I've done this.

Also, neat work, Nerwen!

1. March girl trapped between mirrored ewes’ mates yields substance fit to perfume a gondola.
2. Place of clichéd strife changes ending after an early start. Soft as elven-rope, it is!
3. Dog lit for a chewy, monotonous troll-feast.
4. Endure (though shaken) it did, at the bottom of Sam’s pack!
5. Isengard pudding and Denethor’s fate.
6. Article signed on behalf of bad pianist yields fruit (possibly resembling Laurelin’s?)
7. Projected time – jumbled – which yields this – is four o’clock.
8. Fabled cathedral (or village?) loses consecration and is initially changed for siphonable comestibles.
9. Endless chatter! Gollum provides this.
10. Wise was Sam to seek this fragrant stuff.

Huinesoron 02-19-2018 10:37 AM

#1 surely has to be Marjoram, the merry passenger/messenger/mariner's perfume of choice. It has the two rams (one suitably mirrored), plus... Jo, I guess? She's definitely female, though what she has to do with either March or marching I'm not sure.

hS

Huinesoron 02-19-2018 10:42 AM

And for #6, the article 'a' + p.p. for the signature points me at Apple (suitable for throwing at certain Breelanders). I'm not sure how 'LE' becomes a bad pianist, except that L isn't a key on the piano...

(I run into p.p. at work a lot.)

hS

Pervinca Took 02-19-2018 10:47 AM

MARJORAM: March girl trapped between mirrored ewes’ mates yields substance fit to perfume a gondola.
2. Place of clichéd strife changes ending after an early start. Soft as elven-rope, it is!
3. Dog lit for a chewy, monotonous troll-feast.
4. Endure (though shaken) it did, at the bottom of Sam’s pack!
5. Isengard pudding and Denethor’s fate.
APPLES: Article signed on behalf of bad pianist yields fruit (possibly resembling Laurelin’s?)
7. Projected time – jumbled – which yields this – is four o’clock.
8. Fabled cathedral (or village?) loses consecration and is initially changed for siphonable comestibles.
9. Endless chatter! Gollum provides this.
10. Wise was Sam to seek this fragrant stuff.

Indeed - the mariner's perfume of choice, alongside Lynx Africa and Old Spice (I mean cardamom and lavender).

Jo March is the second eldest of the March girls in Louisa M Alcott's 'Little Women' and the three sequels, and generally considered the heroine/most closely drawn character, of the first two books at least. It's a fictional surname.

EDIT FOR SECOND CLUE GUESSED (near enough):

Remember that fruit can be plural, or at least 'uncountable.' The answer is APPLES, so you were near enough. A + PP is as you say. As for LES - are you from the UK? Just as Tommy Cooper skilfully performed magic tricks badly, there was a comedian who made bad piano-playing a major part of his act: Les Dawson.

Huinesoron 02-20-2018 02:48 AM

I am indeed from the UK, but clearly not very cultured! I do vaguely recognise both names, though.

#3 - the MUTT is switched ON (like a lit bulb) to get Mutton yesterday, Mutton today, and blimey if it don't look like Mutton again tomorrer.

EDIT: For #9, is Smeagol by any chance just RABBITting on about his Precious again?

hS

Pervinca Took 02-20-2018 05:03 AM

Both correct!
 
MARJORAM: March girl trapped between mirrored ewes’ mates yields substance fit to perfume a gondola.
2. Place of clichéd strife changes ending after an early start. Soft as elven-rope, it is!
MUTTON: Dog lit for a chewy, monotonous troll-feast.
4. Endure (though shaken) it did, at the bottom of Sam’s pack!
5. Isengard pudding and Denethor’s fate.
APPLES: Article signed on behalf of bad pianist yields fruit (possibly resembling Laurelin’s?)
7. Projected time – jumbled – which yields this – is four o’clock.
8. Fabled cathedral (or village?) loses consecration and is initially changed for siphonable comestibles.
RABBIT: Endless chatter! Gollum provides this.
10. Wise was Sam to seek this fragrant thing.

(And Gollum provided the rabbits which Sam stewed, of course).

Galadriel55 02-20-2018 06:49 AM

I wonder if 5 is just Roast.

Pervinca Took 02-20-2018 07:04 AM

You are very, very close. What was the only thing Merry and Pippin could offer for dessert in Isengard?

Galadriel55 02-20-2018 08:11 AM

Ah, Toast then.

Huinesoron 02-20-2018 09:16 AM

Well, I had to check the book, but for #10 I guess that Sam's SAGE-like wisdom helped him cook a lovely stew?

(I really want to suggest mead for #8, taking the 'Saint' and the initial 'Mary' away from Miss Marple's home of St. Mary Mead, but I feel that's too much of a stretch. I can't come up with any cathedrals that work for the clue, though; I shall have to ponder some more.)

hS

Pervinca Took 02-20-2018 09:54 AM

MARJORAM: March girl trapped between mirrored ewes’ mates yields substance fit to perfume a gondola.
2. Place of clichéd strife changes ending after an early start. Soft as elven-rope, it is!
MUTTON: Dog lit for a chewy, monotonous troll-feast.
4. Endure (though shaken) it did, at the bottom of Sam’s pack!
TOAST: Isengard pudding and Denethor’s fate.
APPLES: Article signed on behalf of bad pianist yields fruit (possibly resembling Laurelin’s?)
7. Projected time – jumbled – which yields this – is four o’clock.
8. Fabled cathedral (or village?) loses consecration and is initially changed for siphonable comestibles.
RABBIT: Endless chatter! Gollum provides this.
SAGE: Wise was Sam to seek this fragrant thing.

TOAST and SAGE are correct.

Sam asks Gollum to find a few bay-leaves, thyme and sage. When Gollum refuses, Sam goes to find some herbs himself.

Your process is correct for number 8, but it's a rarer saint than Saint Mary. It might even be a fictional one. At any rate, he gives his name to both a fictional village in a nineteenth century novel and a fictional cathedral from an old situation comedy.

Galadriel55 02-20-2018 03:41 PM

Is #4 Salt? Can't fit it in cryptically, but Sam did have a precious pinch of salt hidden away all the way at the bottom.

Edit: Oh, endure = last, scrambled. Makes sense literally and cryptically. :D

Pervinca Took 02-21-2018 12:17 AM

MARJORAM: March girl trapped between mirrored ewes’ mates yields substance fit to perfume a gondola.
2. Place of clichéd strife changes ending after an early start. Soft as elven-rope, it is!
MUTTON: Dog lit for a chewy, monotonous troll-feast.
SALT: Endure (though shaken) it did, at the bottom of Sam’s pack!
TOAST: Isengard pudding and Denethor’s fate.
APPLES: Article signed on behalf of bad pianist yields fruit (possibly resembling Laurelin’s?)
7. Projected time – jumbled – which yields this – is four o’clock.
8. Fabled cathedral (or village?) loses consecration and is initially changed for siphonable comestibles.
RABBIT: Endless chatter! Gollum provides this.
SAGE: Wise was Sam to seek this fragrant thing.

SALT is correct.

Just to remind you, this is quite a silly password. Keep on guessing the clues, and let the password reveal itself, perhaps? I'm not saying don't try and guess it. Just don't expect it to be a sensible answer. ;)

Just to be fair, clue 2 refers to a stock phrase which AFAIK is only used in the UK and with a northern accent. A phrase born in industrial times, which remains in the language as a sort of metaphorical saying.

Huinesoron 02-21-2018 02:39 AM

#2: Okay, so elven rope is as smooth as milk, according to master simile-smith Sam Gamgee, but, be honest: is there really trouble a't'mill up north, or did you just get that from Monty Python? :D

And... look, on #7, four o'clock is tea-time. I can't come up with any way to work the 'jumbled' in, but is the answer simply tea?

#8 I feel has to be a drink ('siphonable'), but my cultural knowledge isn't producing any cathedrae or sainted villages that fit. What do people drink in Middle-earth? Wine from Dorwinion, miruvor from Imladris, beer (or possibly ale) from pubs... various draughts (orc, ent)... honey, I suppose, and I imagine Beorn brings out either honey-wine or mead... none of those jump out as being initially-changed saint's names (so obviously none of them is an actual guess - I'm just throwing out ideas for other people to work with. Teamwork! Ish.)

hS

Huinesoron 02-21-2018 06:45 AM

Oh. It's not a siphonable drink - it's suckable Eggs[es]. And a bit of Googling shows up Saint Ogg's, from The Mill on the Floss. The sainted Ogg does appear to be fictional, though hilariously there is a Lincolnshire care home in the town St. Ogg's was supposedly based on, named after them.

Assuming all three guesses are right, the password comes out as Mmm... 's taters (precious). I'm now feeling the urge to conjure up a meal using the 11 foods and drinks named...

hS

Galadriel55 02-21-2018 06:51 AM

If I'm right about the password being Mmms Taters, we're looking for a drink that starts with E. Ent-draught?

Edit - cross posted. Nice!

Pervinca Took 02-21-2018 11:45 AM

MARJORAM: March girl trapped between mirrored ewes’ mates yields substance fit to perfume a gondola.
MILK: Place of clichéd strife changes ending after an early start. Soft as elven-rope, it is!
MUTTON: Dog lit for a chewy, monotonous troll-feast.
SALT: Endure (though shaken) it did, at the bottom of Sam’s pack!
TOAST: Isengard pudding and Denethor’s fate.
APPLES: Article signed on behalf of bad pianist yields fruit (possibly resembling Laurelin’s?)
TEA: Projected time – jumbled – which yields this – is four o’clock.
EGGS: Fabled cathedral (or village?) loses consecration and is initially changed for siphonable comestibles.
RABBIT: Endless chatter! Gollum provides this.
SAGE: Wise was Sam to seek this fragrant thing.

Password: MIM'S TATERS.
Theme: Food, herbs/seasoning and drink.


In the 'milk' clue, 'after an early start' means that the answer begins one letter before the letter that forms part of the password. You may remember that I've done this before, except I think that on prior occasions (can't remember if it was once or twice), I entered the answer backwards but *still* had to use the second (or in terms of the original word, the penultimate) letter as the one that featured in the password. In those cases, I indicated the two things with something like 'runs back but overshoots by one place.'

I read 'Unfinished Tales' in full recently (I only read certain sections when I was younger, and just skimmed the others). MIM has a bag of roots that he uses as food. I decided I could use poetic licence to make a password from them, made up of food and drink answers. (He won't say what they actually are. 'Mim's Taters' is as good a term as any).

Although neither of you quite guessed the exact password, it would have revealed itself anyway once I had entered all the answers and bolded the appropriate letters.

So I guess it's over to Huinesoron again, as he posted the nearly-right password first (just).

P.S. Gollum did indeed teach his grandmother to suck eggs (only a metaphor outside of The Hobbit, I think! But it seems literal there).

P.P.S. Tea is an anagram of ETA, short for estimated time of arrival (hence projected time), and the ETA of TEA at Bilbo's is four o'clock.

P.P.P.S. 'Trouble at t'mill,' indeed. Didn't know the Pythons had used the expression. Refers to workers rising up against their oppressors, I think.

P.P.P.P.S. St Ogg's is indeed the small town/village where Maggie Tulliver lives in 'The Mill On The Floss.' It is also the name of the fictional cathedral in 'All Gas And Gaiters,' starring Derek Nimmo. It ran on both radio and TV (late 60's/early 70's). On TV, St Albans Cathedral was used for St Ogg's.

P.P.P.P.P.S. I'm not the first to do a 'food and drink' password. Morsul the Dark did one, with 'Meat & Drink' as the password.

P.P.P.P.P.P.S. I think that's now two more post-scripts than Gandalf used.

Huinesoron 02-21-2018 01:31 PM

I'm happy to pass the next one to Galadriel, for the sake of six minutes or whatever; I was working on a concept that didn't quite pan out, so.

Monty Python: "I don't know! I was just told to come in here and say there was trouble at the mill, I didn't expect some kind of Spanish Inquisition!"

I adore Mim's Taters as a term; in the unlikely event that I ever have cause to discuss them, I shall definitely pilfer it.

And hilariously enough, Gollum's eggses was the first place I ran into that saying! I was quite confused when I encountered it in the wild; I had nooo idea what it meant. (I've since improved, fear not.)

That was an extremely fun password; thank you.

hS

Pervinca Took 02-21-2018 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron (Post 710607)

And hilariously enough, Gollum's eggses was the first place I ran into that saying! I was quite confused when I encountered it in the wild; I had nooo idea what it meant.

Me too! (Although I've never really been into the wild). (My mum used the expression once or twice, but it was in The Hobbit that I first encountered it).

Glad you enjoyed the password, Huinesoron.

Galadriel, are you still too busy to make a password?

Galadriel55 02-21-2018 08:25 PM

If I make the password, it would take me several days as I'm still pretty busy and don't have one ready. Maybe I should follow Pervinca's example and pre-make some. But in the meantime I think Hui should post if he has time/ideas ready.

Huinesoron 02-22-2018 02:41 AM

Okay, o-kaaaaay.
 
1. Each of his tales contains a small core of truth.
2. Their blade twists in the deep waters; it does not heed the foam above.
3. Each began alone, but their simple tunes came together in a grand symphony.
4. "It's like steel wool," said the king, "but worse, and pre-cut for us."
5. From scourge of the north to a whisper in the dark, the prince's sad fate.
6. Twice walled in mithril (well, almost), a small region of fair woodlands.
7. Like miruvor, it's a bit pathetic, eh?
8. Hesitant, the sailor erratically greased his boat.

It is only fair to note that #5 is the only pure straight clue of the lot; the rest are cryptic to one extent or another.

hS

Galadriel55 02-22-2018 05:57 AM

6. Ithilien? I can get Ithil from Mithril.

Huinesoron 02-22-2018 06:21 AM

Not Ithilien. Mithril here refers to the metal, rather than the word itself (if that makes sense).

hS


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