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Pervinca Took 02-27-2018 07:45 AM

The only theme I can see so far is never-endingness.

I wonder if 'morrowless' might be the best one to start with, because it sounds simpler than the others. It refers to 'nightshade' ... 'And woods of nightshade morrowless.' (Last verse of the Song of Beren and Luthien). The nightshade never ends. (Because the morning/morrow never comes).

Legolas will never have peace again in Middle-earth if he hears the gulls. And if he sails west, he can never come back. And he's immortal.

The road goes EVER on and on.

Tom's songs go on for ever ... I mean he does.

In the dim morning Theoden rides out from dark Dunharrow, and never comes back (alive, that is).

Pervinca Took 02-27-2018 07:50 AM

So we can see the clues on this page:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron (Post 710704)
Okay.

You're going to hate me.

1. Legolas Greenleaf
2. I came in the autumn
3. Morrowless
4. Home is behind, the world ahead
5. Hey dol! Merry dol!
6. Here beyond the Sundering Seas (2nd letter)
7. In the dim morning

There is a very strong theme to the answers; I realise there are many possible answers to each clue, but you need to peg them to the theme.

hS


Huinesoron 02-27-2018 04:26 PM

So, then: a mildly cryptic hint on how to find the answers from the clues:

A roundabout divided

hS

Galadriel55 02-27-2018 07:38 PM

Okay, will have another think.

In the meantime, folks with books - where does Legolas fall in? He himself sings two songs (about Boromir and Nimrodel). I think the only time he is the subject of a song/poem is in Galadriel's prophecy via Gandalf. Is that correct?



So what's in common among all these songs, and specifically these lines? Huey, if you were a mathematician rather than a chemist, I might have looked up the number of each line in the poem to see if they make up pi or e or another famous mathematical sequence or number. :D

Running through authors, singers, and listeners wasn't productive, and it seems too obvious given Huey's previous responses. Throwing out ideas in a different directions, most of these songs have some importance of location. Legolas is to leave Middle-earth, Galadriel is stuck on Middle-earth, Treebeard remembers lands in Beleriand, which are also mentioned in the Luthien song, and Theoden is leaving Dunharrow for Mundburg. The hobbit song and Hey dol are not clear to me; location is more tangential, the song calls for going somewhere forward.

Nerwen 02-28-2018 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron (Post 710715)
So, then: a mildly cryptic hint on how to find the answers from the clues:

A roundabout divided

hS

Roundabout as in circular intersection, or as in merry-go-round?

Huinesoron 02-28-2018 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerwen (Post 710717)
Roundabout as in circular intersection, or as in merry-go-round?

No.

:D:D:D

Nerwen 02-28-2018 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron (Post 710719)
No.

???:confused::confused::confused:

Huinesoron 02-28-2018 05:56 AM

To expand the hint into a full-blown crossword clue:

Nearby, a roundabout divided (6,5)

hS

Pervinca Took 02-28-2018 09:48 AM

There is the song *cycle* by Donald Swann, but not all these songs are in it, IIRC.

There aren't any roundabouts in Middle-earth!

Huinesoron 02-28-2018 10:11 AM

Okay, okaaaay, I'll give you the hint straight. I was aiming for around & about: ie, the clues are all poems (as spotted) which were either said around or about the answer.

hS

Pervinca Took 02-28-2018 10:22 AM

They are all sung during the lead-up to, or perhaps one might say during, the War of The Ring. But that's not much more specific than saying they're all in LOTR.

Pervinca Took 02-28-2018 10:31 AM

There is also the theme of exile and homelessness ... until you try to make it fit the Tom Bombadil one.

Huinesoron 02-28-2018 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 710728)
They are all sung during the lead-up to, or perhaps one might say during, the War of The Ring. But that's not much more specific than saying they're all in LOTR.

Sorry, imprecision is a curse: EACH clue was said either around or about (ie, close to or concerning) ITS answer.

hS

Pervinca Took 02-28-2018 02:17 PM

I think they were all said in, around or about a forest or wood of some kind.

Huinesoron 02-28-2018 02:59 PM

Might have been.

hS

Pervinca Took 02-28-2018 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron (Post 710704)
Okay.

You're going to hate me.

1. Legolas Greenleaf
2. I came in the autumn
3. Morrowless
4. Home is behind, the world ahead
5. Hey dol! Merry dol!
6. Here beyond the Sundering Seas (2nd letter)
7. In the dim morning

hS

1 Mirkwood
2. Neldoreth
3. Neldoreth
4. Woody End
5. Old Forest
6. Lorien (in Valinor)
7. Firienwood

Well, the Wolf bit kind of works.

Except you said 6 is 2nd letter, which makes it Woof. :D

Huinesoron 02-28-2018 04:42 PM

1. Legolas Greenleaf
N eldoreth - I came in the autumn
3. Morrowless
W oody End - Home is behind, the world ahead
O ld Forest - Hey dol! Merry dol!
6. Here beyond the Sundering Seas (2nd letter)
7. In the dim morning

There is slightly more to #1 - I chose the exact quote from the poem deliberately. Similarly but different for #7. #3 you just got wrong. ;) And #6... I can't even say or I'll give it away.

hS

Nerwen 02-28-2018 07:25 PM

ERYN LASGALEN for #1?

Nerwen 02-28-2018 07:44 PM

And for #3 I'm thinking "woods of nightshade morrowless" might be TAUR-NU-FUIN?

Nerwen 02-28-2018 07:46 PM

And DRÚADAN FOREST for #7?

Is the password ENTWOOD?

Galadriel55 02-28-2018 08:23 PM

Wondering if #6 is just ME-Lorien, or perhaps Lothlorien.

Pervinca Took 03-01-2018 12:01 AM

Some of my answers were actually right? ;)

(I couldn't remember the name of the forest from later in B and L's story, only the one she danced in at the beginning).

Pervinca Took 03-01-2018 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55 (Post 710738)
Wondering if #6 is just ME-Lorien, or perhaps Lothlorien.

Ah, I had the wrong song. I thought it was Gildor and Co singing about 'Snow-white ... o lady clear.' Of course, it's Galadriel's 'O Lorien' and the next words I think are 'now fall the elven-tears.'

Huinesoron 03-01-2018 12:09 AM

E ryn Lasgalen - Legolas Greenleaf
N eldoreth - I came in the autumn
T aur-nu-Fuin - Morrowless
W oody End - Home is behind, the world ahead
O ld Forest - Hey dol! Merry dol!
l O rien - Here beyond the Sundering Seas (2nd letter)
D 7. In the dim morning

'Lasgalen' of course translated Legolas' name. Galadriel was singing about her own Lorien, not the one in Valinor (and how often can you get the right WORD but still get the answer wrong?). The password is indeed ENTWOOD (well done, Nerwen), but #7 isn't Druadan Forest. Think about the specific line I'm quoting.

hS

Pervinca Took 03-01-2018 12:12 AM

But Dunharrow isn't a forest, is it? And I think you'd already said it was wrong?

Edoras is a town.

Huinesoron 03-01-2018 12:14 AM

It"s not Dunharrow.

But it's very close by.

hS

Pervinca Took 03-01-2018 12:19 AM

Dimholt?

Huinesoron 03-01-2018 12:29 AM

E ryn Lasgalen - Legolas Greenleaf
N eldoreth - I came in the autumn
T aur-nu-Fuin - Morrowless
W oody End - Home is behind, the world ahead
O ld Forest - Hey dol! Merry dol!
l O rien - Here beyond the Sundering Seas (2nd letter)
D imholt - In the dim morning

[Theme: Woodlands]

I actually forgot Dimholt existed until I was doing this, probably because the movie turns it into the canyon from Last Crusade. But it's probably the 'dark' in 'From dark Dunharrow in the dim morning'.

I feel like this type of clue kind of works. It largely offsets the deduction process from the clues to the theme - once that was pinned down you rattled off the whole list very quickly. At the least, it was something a bit different. :)

Nerwen, I believe that's over to you if you want it.

hS

Pervinca Took 03-01-2018 12:46 AM

It was great to have a passwood based around songs. Am tempted to write another some time in the future, now you've shown us it can be done. ;)

I think that kind of puzzle does need to start with a general/theme hint, though, because otherwise there is no 'straight part' to the clue at all. You could probably find a wood or forest next to pretty much every place Tolkien created where a song was sung. ;) (With the possible exception of the orc song sung under the Misty Mountains. Or Gimli's song in Moria. Athough even that one mentions a green world). :D

Reminded me a little of a great one Galadriel did about Tolkien family members. It would be a few years ago now, I guess.

Nerwen 03-01-2018 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 710746)
It was great to have a passwood based around songs. Am tempted to write another some time in the future, now you've shown us it can be done. ;)

I think that kind of puzzle does need to start with a general/theme hint, though, because otherwise there is no 'straight part' to the clue at all. You could probably find a wood or forest next to pretty much every place Tolkien created where a song was sung. ;)

I had actually noted earlier that vegetation tended to show up in a lot of the songs referenced- but then I thought, "Well, duh, it's Tolkien! The man really, really liked trees, after all!"

Great clues, though, Huey! You are shaking things up here nicely!

Galadriel55 03-01-2018 10:01 AM

Thirded! The password was very original, and brought a nice change to the pattern. I liked the concept, but I agree with Pervinca that maybe there should be a clue or hint that indicates the theme or how to get to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 710746)
Reminded me a little of a great one Galadriel did about Tolkien family members. It would be a few years ago now, I guess.

Oh yeah. It was a collection of Tolkiens, and there was no spelled password. It was quite a while ago now.

Pervinca Took 03-01-2018 10:16 AM

Do you have another password percolating, Nerwen? Need my mind taking off the weather ....

Nerwen 03-01-2018 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 710750)
Do you have another password percolating, Nerwen? Need my mind taking off the weather ....

Here you go- hope I haven't messed up any anagrams this time!:o

1. Incarnation has a solitary element in this land of shadows.
2. Unsettled surfeit for the insatiable.
3. As he reflected, he lived in high places, in the company of a noblewoman.
4. Legendary one walked valley, bewildered, in dreadful mountains.
5. A mighty avant garde soloist, in retrograde. Or is that an echo?
6. Twice-twisted suffering? We have come to a pretty pass.
7. A venomous insect, yes- but me, a mixed-up globule? Take it back!
8. Star-power? She bottled it!

Note: there is a theme. All the answers relate to it in some way; none of them (save the password itself) are it.

Pervinca Took 03-01-2018 10:42 AM

You are a life-saver. I don't want to think about getting to work in the snow tomorrow, at least for a few hours.

Pervinca Took 03-01-2018 10:43 AM

8. Galadriel / Phial of Galadriel?

Pervinca Took 03-01-2018 10:47 AM

2. The Silmarils, because Ungoliant was still hungry after draining the Two Trees, but the Silmarils were not settled as part of the payment, and Melkor said that the Silmarils as well was too much (i.e. a surfeit)?

Nerwen 03-01-2018 11:11 AM

1. Incarnation has a solitary element in this land of shadows.
2. Unsettled surfeit for the insatiable.
3. As he reflected, he lived in high places, in the company of a noblewoman.
4. Legendary one walked valley, bewildered, in dreadful mountains.
5. A mighty avant garde soloist, in retrograde. Or is that an echo?
6. Twice-twisted suffering? We have come to a pretty pass.
7. A venomous insect, yes- but me, a mixed-up globule? Take it back!
PHIAL OF GALADRIEL: Star-power? She bottled it!

#2 is not the Silmarils but something closely connected to them. "The insatiable" is indeed Ungoliant, but "unsettled" and "surfeit" are on the cryptic side.

Huinesoron 03-01-2018 11:57 AM

#6 - the Pass of AGLON comes close to being an anagram of 'agony' (=suffering); twice-twisted could indicate that one letter has been changed. I can't speak for its prettiness, though.

hS

Pervinca Took 03-01-2018 12:06 PM

4. ERED GORGOROTH, mountains of terror?

Not sure about other bits of clue - gorge for valley, Thor for legendary one?

Or gorge plus Orodreth? (Although not sure why he would be especially legendary).

Pervinca Took 03-01-2018 03:16 PM

The word 'glut' (surfeit) appears in Ungoliant. Could 2 just BE Ungoliant?


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