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Pervinca Took 04-07-2020 06:59 AM
Other names?

Have felt pretty sure for a while that 6 is NOUN backwards with a direction in the middle.

Huinesoron 04-07-2020 08:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 722234)
Have felt pretty sure for a while that 6 is NOUN backwards with a direction in the middle.
Searching for words starting NU on Urwen's Notion Club Wiki has been an exciting education in what licensed and fan-works have come up with. Look at this stuff! About the only genuine Tolkien term I recognise on the first page is Nurn. I'm sure Urwen has only used names she's verified are Tolkien in origin, but it's a bit of a needle in a haystack to find them.

hS

Pervinca Took 04-07-2020 11:03 AM
So we can see the clues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwen (Post 722152)
'Briefly' applied to north-east, actually, to produce NE.

1. Renounce him in disarray.
2. She is endlessly angry, and backward.
3. A greeting around a broken ornamental plate, for her.
4. A cave within a meandering flower, for him.
5. Scattered sodium reveals him.
6. Reversed part of speech surrounds a way, for him
7. A befuddled Shakespearean king surrounds direction, for her.
8. A muddled youngster finds a way, for him.
ELESTIRNE: A confused elver finds commotion, briefly, north-east. See her.
10. Silence. Muddled reasoning leads to him.

No to rest. You have the right king, though.

Huinesoron 04-08-2020 09:05 AM
If Pervinca has the password right, then #2 starts with T, and could be TARI. That's Quenya for 'queen'; I can't find that it's used as an alternate name for anyone, but it is 'irate', endless and backwards.

hS

Urwen 04-08-2020 09:31 AM
O: Renounce him in disarray.
TARI: She is endlessly angry, and backward.
H: A greeting around a broken ornamental plate, for her.
E: A cave within a meandering flower, for him.
R: Scattered sodium reveals him.
N: Reversed part of speech surrounds a way, for him
A: A befuddled Shakespearean king surrounds direction, for her.
M: A muddled youngster finds a way, for him.
ELESTIRNE: A confused elver finds commotion, briefly, north-east. See her.
S: Silence. Muddled reasoning leads to him.


It's an alternate name for Varda, according to that Wiki.

Pervinca Took 04-13-2020 08:33 AM
Found it at last!
 
SHOGLIC.

SH + LOGIC.

Another name (somewhere in Fandom) for Sauron.

Pervinca Took 04-13-2020 10:22 AM
I found a few women with LEAR encasing other letters, but none seem to satisy 'direction' or 'other name':

Ariel
Anorel
Arafel
Arminiel.

You know, AR-FEINIEL, Huey's guess on the last page, satisfies 'other name,' and if we take 'direction' to mean 'order,' you could order someone to fine someone.

However, unless my spelling is wrong, it would leave an extra I.

Huinesoron 04-13-2020 10:38 AM
'Shoglic'. What the what. My only guess is it's supposed to sound Orcish, but it doesn't even do that.

For R, I remain convinced it's an anagram of Natrium (sodium), but I don't have a specific anagram to offer.

hS

Pervinca Took 04-13-2020 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron (Post 722367)
'Shoglic'. What the what. My only guess is it's supposed to sound Orcish, but it doesn't even do that.

For R, I remain convinced it's an anagram of Natrium (sodium), but I don't have a specific anagram to offer.

hS
Well, I guess you could work from the beginning and I could work from the end:

https://notionclubarchives.fandom.co...&useskin=oasis

I didn't know what Na stood for, though, so I have at least learned something today.

Pervinca Took 04-13-2020 11:04 AM
O: Renounce him in disarray
 
Forswear
Forsake
Abandon
Disown
Cast off

Synonyms of 'renounce' that contain O.

Huinesoron 04-13-2020 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 722368)
Well, I guess you could work from the beginning and I could work from the end:

https://notionclubarchives.fandom.co...&useskin=oasis

I didn't know what Na stood for, though, so I have at least learned something today.
I've looked through the lists for RA, RU, and RI without turning up anything that contains both T and M.

If 'scattered' isn't an anagram indicator, we could be looking for a synonym + NA. No luck on Rivenna, Rentna, Rarena, Rendna...

hS

Pervinca Took 04-13-2020 02:44 PM
I did think of 'remote' as a synonym for 'scattered.'

Remotena? :D

EDIT: Finally found the noun one: NURON! R for the way.

From that Notion Club Fanweb Whatsit Thing:

'Characters in The Lost Road and Other Writings
Maidhros, Makalaure, Mando, Mandosse, Martan, Martano, Morimando, Morthu, Nambarauto, Nefantur, Neldion, Neorth, Nessaron, Neth, Nuin, Nuinoer, Nuinor, Núron, Oeros, Ohtor, Olfannor, Oraume, Orodlin, Orômê, Orontor, Oroume, Oswin Errol, Poldor, Radros, Ragnor, Sangahyando, Sauro, Sindingul, Singoldo'

Anything else there that might help us? I need to see the clues without scrolling, so:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwen (Post 722275)
O: Renounce him in disarray.
TARI: She is endlessly angry, and backward.
H: A greeting around a broken ornamental plate, for her.
E: A cave within a meandering flower, for him.
R: Scattered sodium reveals him.
N: Reversed part of speech surrounds a way, for him
A: A befuddled Shakespearean king surrounds direction, for her.
M: A muddled youngster finds a way, for him.
ELESTIRNE: A confused elver finds commotion, briefly, north-east. See her.
S: Silence. Muddled reasoning leads to him.

Urwen 04-13-2020 04:41 PM
O: Renounce him in disarray.
TARI: She is endlessly angry, and backward.
H: A greeting around a broken ornamental plate, for her.
E: A cave within a meandering flower, for him.
R: Scattered sodium reveals him.
N: Reversed part of speech surrounds a way, for him
A: A befuddled Shakespearean king surrounds direction, for her.
M: A muddled youngster finds a way, for him.
ELESTIRNE: A confused elver finds commotion, briefly, north-east. See her.
SHOGLIC: Silence. Muddled reasoning leads to him.

Pervinca Took 04-13-2020 04:51 PM
How about NURON?

Urwen 04-13-2020 05:11 PM
O: Renounce him in disarray.
TARI: She is endlessly angry, and backward.
H: A greeting around a broken ornamental plate, for her.
E: A cave within a meandering flower, for him.
R: Scattered sodium reveals him.
NURON: Reversed part of speech surrounds a way, for him
A: A befuddled Shakespearean king surrounds direction, for her.
M: A muddled youngster finds a way, for him.
ELESTIRNE: A confused elver finds commotion, briefly, north-east. See her.
SHOGLIC: Silence. Muddled reasoning leads to him.

Now you're getting the hang of it.

Pervinca Took 04-13-2020 06:34 PM
How about HARANI for H? It's a caramaran/ship, but ships are feminine. :D

And it IS bookended by HI.

Huinesoron 04-14-2020 03:42 AM
Okay, this is... not impossible, exactly, but very much a brute-force, shooting-in-the-dark exercise. Take the Lear clue - there are 500 results starting with AR, 200 with AL, and if the direction provides the second letter the scope expands to the entire set of 2000 'A' entries. And the only way to approach the question is to read through each list and hope you spot a woman's name.

I'm not going to complain about the use of non-canon names - hey, I've used a MERP Ringwraith at least once, and I think I had an entire password of uncanonical women - but if people want to use them again, please can I appeal for more of a straight clue than 'him' or 'her'? Because this has been ten days of blind frustration, and we're not even halfway through yet.

~

I have searched the AR, AL, and AE lists, and see nothing beyond what's already been suggested, other than ARPEL, on the grounds that the map suggests it might be an old name for Pelargir.

hS

Urwen 04-14-2020 03:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron (Post 722380)
Okay, this is... not impossible, exactly, but very much a brute-force, shooting-in-the-dark exercise. Take the Lear clue - there are 500 results starting with AR, 200 with AL, and if the direction provides the second letter the scope expands to the entire set of 2000 'A' entries. And the only way to approach the question is to read through each list and hope you spot a woman's name.

I'm not going to complain about the use of non-canon names - hey, I've used a MERP Ringwraith at least once, and I think I had an entire password of uncanonical women - but if people want to use them again, please can I appeal for more of a straight clue than 'him' or 'her'? Because this has been ten days of blind frustration, and we're not even halfway through yet.

~

I have searched the AR, AL, and AE lists, and see nothing beyond what's already been suggested, other than ARPEL, on the grounds that the map suggests it might be an old name for Pelargir.

hS

Hmmm....more straight clue than 'him' or 'her'? Okay. For this one, it's the momma of teh naughty elf.

Pervinca Took 04-14-2020 05:46 AM
Well, Ar-Feiniel has already been guessed twice. Does she have another 'other name?'

Huinesoron 04-14-2020 05:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwen (Post 722382)
Hmmm....more straight clue than 'him' or 'her'? Okay.
Thank you. Sincerely, thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwen (Post 722382)
For this one, it's the momma of teh naughty elf.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 722385)
Well, Ar-Feiniel has already been guessed twice. Does she have another 'other name?'
'AEREL', apparently. Which doesn't even have a redirect to it on the Notion Club; literally the only way to find it is to look at Aredhel's page. Check out what you get if you search it directly.

EDIT: Which, surprisingly enough, is a genuine Tolkien word - it's a variant of aredhel, 'noble elf, Noldo or Sinda', found in Parma Eldalamberon 17. Doesn't look like the source used it as a personal name.

hS

Pervinca Took 04-14-2020 06:06 AM
I only found NURON by inventing it myself and putting it in that same search bar.

Maybe that's the key - construct the names yourself, then see it they exist?

It didn't even tell me *who* Nuron was another name for.

Urwen 04-14-2020 06:50 AM
Sorry, it's pretty random. Except that Erendis, Maeglin and Saeros do have genuine Tolkien names here, I promise you that.

O: Renounce him in disarray.
TARI: She is endlessly angry, and backward.
H: A greeting around a broken ornamental plate, for her.
E: A cave within a meandering flower, for him.
R: Scattered sodium reveals him.
NURON: Reversed part of speech surrounds a way, for him
AEREL: A befuddled Shakespearean king surrounds direction, for her.
M: A muddled youngster finds a way, for him.
ELESTIRNE: A confused elver finds commotion, briefly, north-east. See her.
SHOGLIC: Silence. Muddled reasoning leads to him.

Urwen 04-14-2020 06:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron (Post 722386)

'AEREL', apparently. Which doesn't even have a redirect to it on the Notion Club; literally the only way to find it is to look at Aredhel's page. Check out what you get if you search it directly.

EDIT: Which, surprisingly enough, is a genuine Tolkien word - it's a variant of aredhel, 'noble elf, Noldo or Sinda', found in Parma Eldalamberon 17. Doesn't look like the source used it as a personal name.

hS

I did, and her name was the first result according to the link you gave

Huinesoron 04-14-2020 08:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwen (Post 722390)
I did, and her name was the first result according to the link you gave
Yes - but you only get that if you divine that 'Aerel' is the answer. If you're looking through the page names, you will never see 'Aerel', because it's only found by reading the 'Aredhel' page. That was my point.

Thank you for the pointer to Saeros; if you forgo him, you get ORGOF for #1.

hS

Urwen 04-14-2020 08:51 AM
ORGOF: Renounce him in disarray.
TARI: She is endlessly angry, and backward.
H: A greeting around a broken ornamental plate, for her.
E: A cave within a meandering flower, for him.
R: Scattered sodium reveals him.
NURON: Reversed part of speech surrounds a way, for him
AEREL: A befuddled Shakespearean king surrounds direction, for her.
M: A muddled youngster finds a way, for him.
ELESTIRNE: A confused elver finds commotion, briefly, north-east. See her.
SHOGLIC: Silence. Muddled reasoning leads to him.

Pervinca Took 04-14-2020 11:13 AM
There's Morlin as well as Morleg as another name for Maeglin.

Oh! It's MORLIN.

MINOR + L.

Good one!

Urwen 04-14-2020 11:26 AM
ORGOF: Renounce him in disarray.
TARI: She is endlessly angry, and backward.
H: A greeting around a broken ornamental plate, for her.
E: A cave within a meandering flower, for him.
R: Scattered sodium reveals him.
NURON: Reversed part of speech surrounds a way, for him
AEREL: A befuddled Shakespearean king surrounds direction, for her.
MORLIN: A muddled youngster finds a way, for him.
ELESTIRNE: A confused elver finds commotion, briefly, north-east. See her.
SHOGLIC: Silence. Muddled reasoning leads to him.

Pervinca Took 04-14-2020 01:23 PM
Could Huey's guess of RIVENNA possibly be right, with RIVEN as a rather stretched synonym for 'scattered?'

Pervinca Took 04-14-2020 01:31 PM
OK, but I am not hunting through thousands of random fandom words without any hints. I have enough potential stress at the moment!

Urwen 04-15-2020 03:15 AM
H: A Valie
E: The 'cave-hewing' Elf *
R: He represents a month *


* = genuine Tolkien names

Huinesoron 04-15-2020 04:16 AM
R: RANUIN, or ruin with Na, reversed, inside it, is the ?Ainu? incarnation of months. I'm not sure how well he fits the puzzle, though - there's no indication that sodium is 'eaten' or reversed, and I don't think he has an Other Name.

More certainly, for E: EDENNIL, or den + nile, a name for Finrod, used presumably by Andreth (it's from the Athrabeth). 'Friend of Men' in Sindarin, apparently, I guess from EDAIN+NDIL with some mutations or something.

hS

Pervinca Took 04-15-2020 04:30 AM
If so, I had the correct elements with Elendil, just the wrong end result.

For H, there is HESKIL listed as an alternative name on Yavanna's page. It has HI, but I think the clue says the greeting encases the other element(s).

Or there is HIRADWA for Este, with HI at the beginning.

Huinesoron 04-15-2020 04:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwen (Post 722402)
H: A Valie
E: The 'cave-hewing' Elf *
R: He represents a month *


* = genuine Tolkien names
As an aside, these would have been great straight clues in the original password. Maybe "a Valie" is too straightforward, but 'a cave-hewing elf' narrows it down without actually specifying (Thingol or Maeglin, or at a pinch Legolas, could also qualify', and 'he represents a month' sounds really cryptic until you realise it's literal (if it is). Without the letters already in place, it would have been a challenge to figure out which name of Finrod was relevant - but that's challenge in a good, fun sense. :)

hS

Pervinca Took 04-15-2020 04:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 722404)
If so, I had the correct elements with Elendil, just the wrong end result.

For H, there is HESKIL listed as an alternative name on Yavanna's page. It has HI, but I think the clue says the greeting encases the other element(s).

Or there is HIRADWA for Este, with HI at the beginning.
Or HELINYETILLE for Nessa, which again has HI, but not in a 'bookending' capacity.

The other 4 Valie don't seem to have any other names beginning with H.

Hmmm ...

HIRADWA has HI + AWARD. I suppose an award can take the form of an ornamental plate. Wimbledon awards a silver plate instead of a cup, I think. And you used to get a Wedgewood plate in the UK for your hundredth blood donation, (you might still, but I never got that far!)

Oh! And 'around' could just mean mix up 'award.' It could be an anagram indicator for the second element, rather than an 'encase everything else' indicator.

...

I wonder *which* month Ranuin was supposed to represent!

Urwen 04-15-2020 07:21 AM
ORGOF: Renounce him in disarray.
TARI: She is endlessly angry, and backward.
H: A greeting around a broken ornamental plate, for her.
EDDENIL: A cave within a meandering flower, for him.
RANUIN: Scattered sodium reveals him.
NURON: Reversed part of speech surrounds a way, for him
AEREL: A befuddled Shakespearean king surrounds direction, for her.
MORLIN: A muddled youngster finds a way, for him.
ELESTIRNE: A confused elver finds commotion, briefly, north-east. See her.
SHOGLIC: Silence. Muddled reasoning leads to him.

Pervinca Took 04-15-2020 07:33 AM
Is HIRADWA wrong, then?

Urwen 04-15-2020 07:38 AM
Yes.

Pervinca Took 04-15-2020 07:57 AM
I looked up all seven Valie on the Notion Club website and only found the three names I have already posted:

Heskil
Hiradwa
Helinyetille.

Urwen 04-15-2020 07:59 AM
None of those.

I am tempted to just put in the right name and end this.

Huinesoron 04-15-2020 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pervinca Took (Post 722411)
I looked up all seven Valie on the Notion Club website and only found the three names I have already posted:

Heskil
Hiradwa
Helinyetille.
All how many Valier?

If Ranuin is up for consideration, then Measse the Amazon must be as well. And by Tolkien's original counting, the children of the Valar are Valar themselves, which brings the like of Nieliqui (daughter of Orome and Vana) into play. Now, neither of those have an H-name on the Notion Club, but there may be others.

Urwen - is 'ornamental plate' a single thing we need a synonym for?

hS


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