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Old 03-22-2003, 04:33 PM   #29
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: With Tux, dread poodle of Pinnath Galin
Posts: 239
Man-of-the-Wold has just left Hobbiton.

Ah, yes, there is much that I had forgotten there, but more specifically, it is in "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age", which I'd like to see consolidated with LoTR appendices, UTs and what else into as full a tale of "Middle-Earth" in the Second & Third Age as possible (aside from T&BA/LoTR).

ORPTA was specifically written by JRRT for publication with "Quenta Silmarillion" and I believe it was essentially finished during his lifetime, and thus may be considered to be true Canon, as opposed to the "Quenta Silmarillion" as diputably edited by CRT for The Silmarillion for which I'm working now with the 2nd Edition, as opposed to my treasured 1st American Printing.

On page 300-2, which I'll assume here to be canon, it gives a good telling of the White Council, but I see no mention of "five" having specifically undertaken the assault on Dol Guldor, and I doubt that there is such a reference.

This telling does confirm, as I thought, that Cirdan was a Charter Member of the White Council, along with Elrond and Galadriel. Actually, ORPTA refers to the White Council as primarily an Eldarin enterprise. (In fact, some of its members had been part of the Second Age's first such council)

Besides the three already noted, other Elven Lords were definitely counted amoung it members, who would undoubtedly include at least Celeborn, Glorfindel and Erestor. (I would not, however, list Thranduil, Gildor, Elrohir, Elladen, Arwen, or Haldir among even potential White Councillors, even if the first two were at times privy to the counsels of the Wise)

Saruman and Gandalf are then described as joining the council too, although certainly as key members, seeing as they were the two candidates for the Chair.

Radagast's absence in that text is certainly significant, as his name appears in close context just above. I take this to imply, with little uncertainty, that Gandalf and Saruman were the only Istari, who were also real members of the White Council.

As for the assault, Radagast might still have been called on, geography being what it was, even if he was no more than a nominal part of the White Council.

The primary players from the White Council, who were present at the scene, were Gandalf, Saruman, Galadriel, Celeborn (with Galadhrim forces), and possibly Glorfindel leading a contingency from Rivendell and potentially even from Lindon. I believe that Elrond was not directly involved in person.

I think it interesting that in the LoTR we get strong lead up about both Celeborn and Erestor being reputedly so wise. Yet, much of what they say in LoTR would lead one to at least wonder about these reputations.

One thinks that JRRT had a point here:
1. The the issues involved were tough ones that defied conventional wisdome.
2. Even might elf-lord were not immune to arrogance, pride and some blindnest therefrom.

Any other Thought?
The hoes unrecked in the fields were flung, __ and fallen ladders in the long grass lay __ of the lush orchards; every tree there turned __ its tangled head and eyed them secretly, __ and the ears listened of the nodding grasses; __ though noontide glowed on land and leaf, __ their limbs were chilled.
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