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Old 04-29-2021, 02:40 AM   #21
Rune Son of Bjarne
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Originally Posted by Morthoron View Post
The original meaning of "dux" was military leader (before it became attached to the aristocracy (duke in English, duc in French). So, King Arthur is referred to in some early texts as dux bellorum (war leader/general of battles). Given the pompous title Tolkien gives the king, I would consider dux rex to be "lord of all generals."
Sounds more likely than my interpretation, and I do like pompous and longwinded titles.

Originally Posted by Morthoron View Post
As far as the Greek basileus appearing in Tolkien's story (and the dragon's name Chrysophylax is Greek as well), basileus was used in the Eastern regions of the Roman Empire in reference to the Emperor in Rome (Imperator). The use of the term basileus survived in the West up until Charlemagne, who was recognized as "basileus Rhomaíōn" by the Byzantines as the titular ruler of Rome and emperor of the West.
Now this seems off to me. Yes basileus was used in the greek speaking parts of the roman empire, but to my knowledge not used by the latin speakers. Surely the west used "Imperator"?

Also, it seems very un-byzantine to recognize anybody else as Roman Emperor. They were pragmatic, so they might not always object to other powers encroaching on their turf, if it suited the political situation. Anyways I am straying off topic and will only add that to my knowledge they only acknowledge Charlemagne as Emperor of the Franks.

Originally Posted by Kuruharan View Post
I too had noticed this oddity.

In the notes in the 50th Anniversary Edition it says thusly:

I must admit I had never seen basileus as carrying that connotation before that footnote, and I don't think I have ever seen it again. I'm not sure where the editors got that reference from.
That is a peculiar connotation, I wish there was a footnote to the footnote explaining the source.

All the pompous titles and names, especially those of the petty king, has an air of Erasmus Montanus about it (a central play in Scandinavian theater).
Originally Posted by Lalaith View Post
Rune is my brother from another mother.

Last edited by Rune Son of Bjarne; 04-29-2021 at 02:47 AM. Reason: This is not WW yet I feel the need to inform you that i cross posted with Legate
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