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Old 02-26-2014, 10:40 PM   #6
Ivriniel
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 433
Ivriniel has just left Hobbiton.
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Originally Posted by Alfirin View Post
I always assumed this meant that the collapse of Barad-Dur was itself rather fiery, or at least enough of a conflagration that the people there assmed it was enough to make the stone burst. Though, given that, as far as we know, no Palantir ever WAS confirmed destroyed in that manner, where the concept would come from (maybe the Noldor has some mishaps in thier creation, and passed on the warning when they presented the seven to the west.)
As I understood it, Sauron winked out of existence and the tower collapsed, and I don't remember any fiery conflagration, though who knows? I also wonder what the Palantir recorded as Sauron--the Maia of malice, sadism and fear--whose Will suddenly turned to jelly and terror folded in upon himself as he discerned Frodo on Mount Doom and then turned the Palantir's attention to Orodruin (the Eye of Sauron thing was about his sight, bearing down upon the lands, through the Palantir).

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The problem with the Osgiliath stone plan is the one I mentioned in some earlier thread; there is a real chance the stone isn't IN the Anduin anymore. The palantiri are spheres, and the Anduin's current is swift especially that far down. I'd say it is quite possible that, within a few months of falling in, it is entierly possible the Stone would have rolled along the riverbed with the current; and is now long since sitting at the bottom of the ocean; beyond ANY ability to be retrieved.
I've heard the 'rolling stones' (pardon pun ) metaphor. I don't believe so, however. The Osgliath stone was *massive* and *very* heavy. And the river bed is not smooth, it would have rocks and juts and obstacles, and so, I have surmised, it just sank and either got buried, (or half buried) by sand, or caught in rocks. Think of a 2 meter diameter sphere, weighing, I'd say a quarter to a half a ton (the stone needed multiple able bodied men to lift it). I don't see any round stone dropped in the Potomac or Murray river (here in Oz) going very far at all. Floating trees, debris and so on tend to move downstream. I would say it's right under the point it fell into Anduin.

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But if you want crackpot methods I have one that would get all three out.
*grins*

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A. Go to Moria

B. Contact the Watcher in the Water and Convince HIM to get them.

This presumes the Watcher is
1. Alive post the vanquisment (there seems no reason he should not be)

2. Still there (with the Dwarves trying to re-colonize the area, I imagine having a ravening kraken on their doorstep would be something they'd feel would need to be "taken care of"

3. sentient enough to be reasoned with
(i.e. it isn't just a mindless beast driven by hunger and incapable of thought (if is is some sort of kraken, as some books suggested, that would be a plus; squid and octopi are pretty intelligent as sea life goes.) and

4. neutral or at least independent evil. That is, if he is evil, he's a kind that is in it for himself and can be bribed. Though what you would bribe him with beats me, fish? gold? I'd say getting him OUT of the pool would work, except most of the things I have read (unreliable as they were) seem to suggest the Watcher came up the river and made the wall that dammed it into a pool HIMSELF so he's there voluntarily and not really trapped. Unless he made the trip when he was a lot smaller, and now is too big to go back. In that case, they would have a good bargaining chip; a lot of dwarves with a lot of shovels and a lot of desire to see the damn thing gone. You just have to convince them that he's more useful freed than dead.
Good, lateral thinking. I'm not sure what tool of Will would be needed to negotiate with such a thing and it was a 'watchman' wasn't it. Rather careful about the Durin Doors remaining closed, and rather bent on keeping them closed. It pulled the trees growing to either side of the door down, to ensure the doors were closed. Implies sentience. Further, not of evil origin. Why would an evil watcher want good things *not* to go into Moria where there was a Balrog.

It seems to me, the watcher, being all 'wet' in water really didn't like beings of Shadow and Fire, and had an, erm, anti-Balrog disposition .

Cheers
Ivriniel

Last edited by Ivriniel; 02-26-2014 at 10:45 PM.
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