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Old 09-26-2021, 09:31 AM   #524
Huinesoron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
Thank you! I confess, I cheat - I rarely can sing harmony clearly right off the top of my head. So instead I write it same way I would write the score, with an instrument playing more than one set of notes, and I fiddle with it until I'm happy with the sound. Then I delete the main voice line, and I'm left with the lower voice(s). Then I can hear them in isolation and sing along to them to make it a cleaner recording. Here's the one for Appeal, if you wanna give it a try.
The fact that I don't understand most of what you just said explains why I'm so impressed. Sure, you think that makes it easier...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
First of all, I saw a number of times when Russian-Quenya poetry is written with a ton of apostrophes and contractions. ...Why? It looks ugly. I can see the reason behind "Vard' ", because the final vowel gets lost. But, for instance, why "ma'r"? What are all these marks supposed to represent? I feel like English Quenya (lol) doesn't have nearly the same amount.
I think a lot of those are actually accents: "Feana'ro" is just "Fëanáro", badly formatted. Some of them are still apostrophes, like Vard' and tenn' (that one's Tolkien's fault).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
But on to the content... Surely the speaker is Maglor, the lonely son of Feanor! But who is the lady that he is serenading? I cannot recall any canon about Maglor's love life.
First off, technically I've written about this! Dafydd Illian is a fictionally-created copy of Maglor (it's complicated), and when she hears this song his wife has Questions.

As Dafydd says, the answer is buried in HoME XII: apparently it's a note Tolkien jotted in one of his copies of RotK, saying that "Maedros" was unwedded, as were the twins, one of whom burned with the ships, and Celegorm, because he planned to marry Luthien. He notes that Curufin was married, and his son (Celebrimbor) followed him when his wife did not; then ends with "Others who were wedded were Maelor, Caranthir". And that's literally all we know about Mrs Maglor.

(This, and an associated note, are the reason Christopher put Celebrimbor as Curufin's son in the published Silm, so they're weightier than they look canon-wise.)

I actually thought it was about Curufin's wife, who Silm-canonically exists, but I can't find the source of that belief. ^_^

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
Interestingly, first major diversion in the lyrics comes on the Melkor line - the person who provided the literal translation pointed out that the Quenya only says that Melkor gives her a "beloved [man]", implying most likely himself - and not another man that she loved instead. So the tragedy is not a love triangle but their love itself, due to their eternal separation. But the last stanza is the meat of it. The Russian really makes it sound like he's talking about a mortal woman - one who is as brief as smoke on the wind. But the Quenya has no support for that, really. It's just a well-wish to someone whose identity remains really vague. I am not sure about the whole Eye reference though. Beyond the water is surely in Valinor, not TA Mordor - so... Manwe watching? Dunno.
I feel like the Quenya is pretty clearly Maglor talking about his wife. The only people he would describe as coming from Melkor are his own accursed house, surely! The Eye could be Manwe (I think it probably is), but could also be Maglor himself or his estranged wife - or even the Silmaril of Earendil! There's nothing in the Quenya to make it The Eye, just an eye that sees all.

That Russian version is very different, and doesn't tell the same story at all. How odd.

... errrrr, the Russian transcription I have in my link runs like this:

Из-за тумана, из-за воды
смотрит всевидящее око.
Женщина.
Сон больного разума.
Да будет благословенным твой путь.

Have I managed to get a Google Translated version of the Russian in there somehow? I can't imagine how, but it's possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
As an aside... Surely there's a typo in the last stanza, for "water" - should it not be "nen", not "men"?
I'm not sure the singer's enunciation is clear enough to distinguish nen from men; I've got it as Nen in my copy of the lyrics, and I don't think I would have corrected it.

I also stand by what Dafydd said: it describes her as blonde. Can you imagine Feanor's reaction to his son marrying a Vanya? The Kinslaying at Alqualonde would have nothing on this!

EDIT: I've just looked up Maglor (actually Maelor) in NoME, and he only has one reference, but it's a "what?!" moment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoME 3.VIII Manwe's Ban
The most notable were those Maiar who took the form of the mighty speaking eagles [...] Their intervention in the story of Maelor, in the duel of Fingolfin and Melkor, in the rescue of Beren and Luthien is well known.
Like, it's almost certainly a typo for Maedhros, but if so, why no mention of Fingon? The "source" of the text appears to be a late (Gondorian?) footnote to a Numenorean text, so again, it's probably meant to be Maedhros; but you have to wonder...

hS
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Last edited by Huinesoron; 09-26-2021 at 09:37 AM.
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