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02-15-2022, 06:19 PM | #1 |
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Barad-Dur
Posts: 196
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In these WOKE days, would Tolkien and the LOTR be banned?
Tolkien wrote sentences like: ".... Still, you may at the least disturb the Orcs and Swarthy Men from their feasting in the White Tower......". If he had written stuff like that today would LOTR have ever been published?
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02-16-2022, 03:30 AM | #2 | |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
Posts: 3,881
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Quote:
1/ Would LotR be banned (after publication) for this? No, because it takes about five minutes to find out that the people actually banning books are the ones offended by "WOKE" books. Indeed, when it has been banned, it's been for promoting witchcraft and Satanism, which comes from the same segment of the population as those who think reading about people who aren't straight or white will somehow harm them. 2/ Would LotR be accepted for publication in 2022? Probably yes! Tolkien had already published a very successful children's story (The Hobbit), and had done so long enough ago that the children who read it would now be prime targets for marketing an adult book. It's a bit on the long side, but George R.R. Martin proves you can still get away with that. And despite what you may have heard, "WOKE" books still face an uphill climb to get published; it's mainstream, "Tolkienesque" fantasy which still dominates the market. 3/ Would Tolkien be asked to edit lines like the one you mention? Probably not! It depends on the editor, but "Swarthy Men" is not a Primary World slur, and is pretty clearly a deliberately archaic form of reference. That said, a book where the enemy are literally just black people in a featureless horde would probably raise some eyebrows from editors. He'd maybe be asked to tone it down a bit - perhaps he could make it clear that the enemy armies are actually enslaved by the Dark Lord, and make sure that the heroes deal fairly with them after the war, perhaps by pardoning and releasing their Easterling prisoners, making peace with the kingdoms of Harad, and granting the inhabitants of Mordor all the most fertile lands of that realm as their own. Maybe he could even have his characters experience moments of sympathy and common-feeling with the enemy, or - it's a bit extreme, I know - make most of them non-human. (To avoid any implication that "non-human == black", it'd probably be best to make it clear that there are other human races out there; maybe this could go back to the "enslaved by the Dark Lord" concept?) Oh, and if he could cut out all those lines about how his heroes whitely whited their way through with their incredible whiteness, maybe replacing his descriptions with the likes of "tall as a young tree, lithe, immensely strong... endowed with the still tremendous vitality of elvish bodies, so hard and resistant to hurt that he went only in light shoes over rock or through snow, the most tireless of all the Fellowship," that would be grand. Fool of a Tolkien. If only he'd thought of that. hS
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Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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02-16-2022, 02:51 PM | #3 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 19
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To suggest that there is censorship of this sort is to spread misinformation. Your account has been suspended for violating terms of service.
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02-17-2022, 08:58 AM | #4 | |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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Quote:
See? Woke! Woke! Tolkien was woke! Shame on him! Ban him, ban him for spreading his liberal-lovey-dovey-ideas that need to insert sentences like this into every book in order to hammer into their audience the bleeding-heart ideas that perhaps non-white people may be normal human beings, and not really evil at heart!
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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02-21-2022, 10:16 AM | #5 |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,318
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"The Lord of the Rings... was fortieth on the American Library Association’s list of the one hundred books likely to be challenged or banned during the twentieth century."
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
02-21-2022, 07:03 PM | #6 |
Emperor of the South Pole
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: The Western Shore of Lake Evendim
Posts: 622
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Well said Huinesoron.
I always take note of the sleepers who love to throw 'WOKE' around. |
02-22-2022, 02:05 PM | #7 |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,036
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I'm going to keep it simple.
The reason I read fantasy novels (or really any fiction) is to escape the real world for a time. This is especially true with Tolkien. The last thing I want is tiresome politics impinging on what is intended as relaxation. I wish some didn't see every form of media as a means to advance an agenda.
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