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Old 12-11-2003, 10:58 PM   #1
Theoric Windcaller
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Ok, in the end of the RotK: Frodo and Gandalf sail into the west to the Grey Havens, leaving Sam behind in the Shire.

Now, we all know that beyond the Grey Havens is Valinor, where the immortals dwell. In my mind, I picture the Grey Havens as a very celestial, ethereal place, yet it seems to me that the Grey Havens are only the gate or so, or more like a boundry to mortals, saying, you can't go any further.

Frodo felt more at home in the Shire than in Rivendell, Bree, Lrien, etc. Why didn't he stay in the Shire? What was the big deal about the Grey Havens, what was so great about it? Now, when I think of Valinor, I think of Heaven, its almost like a physical Heaven on Middle-Earth, but why was the Grey Havens so drawing? What happened here? What was this place like?
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Old 12-11-2003, 11:14 PM   #2
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why was the Grey Havens so drawing? What happened here? What was this place like?
The Grey Havens are along the west coast of ME, and the dwelling place for Cirdan the Shipwright - and the departure point for Valinor. As for why Frodo felt he had to leave, I'm sure I have seen this in at least one or two other topics. Try the search function. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 12-12-2003, 10:54 PM   #3
Theoric Windcaller
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Sting

You tell me to try the search function when it would be so much easier to give me the answer right now. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
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Old 12-14-2003, 01:10 PM   #4
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Sting

Frodo felt he had to leave because he had been wounded by "knife, tooth, and sting." He would never fully heal from the wounds that he had suffered upon his Quest and they began to make him sicken, a while after he and the other Hobbits returned to the Shire. He mainly needed healing, and the only place where he could get the healing that he needed was in Aman. Frodo also realized that as a martyr figure, he would forever be looked at askance, and would never be completely at home in the Shire that he helped save.

The Grey Havens seemed so magical because they were one of the last settlements of Elves. From there, grey ships would sail West to Aman, bearing Elves who had grown weary of Middle-earth. Frodo and Bilbo could go because they had done great deeds in defense of Middle-earth and needed to be healed from the wounds caused by their possession of the One Ring. Gimli was later allowed to go because he and Legolas had ended the age-old feud between Elves and Dwarves by becoming friends. Some say that Sam also left for Aman, after the death of Rosie. In short, those who did great deeds in defense of Middle-earth and the Free Peoples were allowed to go.

The Grey Havens were a magical place because of the constant presence of the Elves and because Cirdan, one of the mightiest of the Elf Lords yet in Middle-earth, watched over it. Any Elven settlement ruled by an Elf-Lord (or Lady) of great power becme magical through their power.

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"I thought Elves were all for moon and stars: but this is more elvish than anything I ever heard tell of. I feel as if I was inside a song, if you take my meaning." (Sam)

Haldir looked at them, and he seemed indeed to take the meaning of both thought and word. He smiled, "You feel the power of the Lady of the Galadhrim," he said.
Also, the Sea was a very magical place, as is shown by the "force" that draws all Elves to the Sea. In its sounds are the last vestiges of the Ainulindal, the Song of the Ainur, that created Arda. That is why many of the Children of Iluvatar are drawn to the Sea, though they know not why.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 2:19 PM December 14, 2003: Message edited by: Finwe ]
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Old 12-14-2003, 03:17 PM   #5
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Sting

Im with Finwe. Still making fun of The Perky Ent. lolThat and frodo never got the recognition he deserved. He would have gone throughout his entire life in the shire, and not one person would have asked where did you go. He felt that he needed to Aman. Also Arwen gave up her spot on the ships to Valinor. So now frodo is going with bilbo. They will be the only mortals there. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
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Old 12-14-2003, 03:38 PM   #6
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Except for Sam and later Gimli. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

EDIT: And also, many millenia earlier, Tuor.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 4:39 PM December 14, 2003: Message edited by: Elladan and Elrohir ]
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Old 12-15-2003, 10:22 PM   #7
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In any case, Frodo didn't really feel at home in the Shire by the end of the War. He told Sam, "I tried to save the Shire, and it has been saved, but not for me."

In my opinion, he realized how much bigger the world was, and after seeing all he had in his adventure, the Shire didn't have enough for him anymore.
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Old 12-15-2003, 10:32 PM   #8
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Welcome to the Barrow-Downs, Amoki.
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In my opinion, he realized how much bigger the world was, and...the Shire didn't have enough for him anymore.
OR

"Honey, you just don't do it for me anymore. I have bigger needs--I'm sure you understand...." [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]
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Old 12-16-2003, 03:54 AM   #9
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Now, we all know that beyond the Grey Havens is Valinor, where the immortals dwell. In my mind, I picture the Grey Havens as a very celestial, ethereal place, yet it seems to me that the Grey Havens are only the gate or so, or more like a boundry to mortals, saying, you can't go any further.
(....) What was the big deal about the Grey Havens, what was so great about it? Now, when I think of Valinor, I think of Heaven, its almost like a physical Heaven on Middle-Earth, but why was the Grey Havens so drawing? What happened here? What was this place like?
As pointed out before, the Grey Haves were a departure point for Valinor; that's what drew people (Elves) to it. Like, when many people in the 19th century left for America, they would go through the ports in Europe to get on board. If for the whole of Europe there would have been just one port to embark for America, that port would be as drawing as the Grey Havens was for the Elves.
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Old 12-21-2003, 08:43 AM   #10
Jess
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Silmaril

That's a really good way to put it Earendilyon...
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Old 12-21-2003, 11:21 AM   #11
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Sting

Also the Grey Havens, and the land of Lindon around them, are the last surviving remnants of Beleriand (ossiriand, specifically, I think) which might well add to the other-worldly atmosphere.
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Old 12-21-2003, 12:12 PM   #12
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Sting

True. The fact that the region of land that the Grey Havens is situated on, was populated by Elves for a very long time, probably had a lot to do with it. The Elves had the ability to make their surroundings "Elven," in a way. If they lived in one place for a very long time, then their qualities would kind of seep into the land. That was why Rivendell and Lothlorien seemed so restful and peaceful. The land itself became Elven.
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But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fanor, and there he slew Finw King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finw alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.
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