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Old 06-29-2003, 06:21 PM   #1
Esgallhugwen
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The Eye Denethor in The Silmarillion

Something caught my eye as I was re-reading the Silmarillion. The name of Denethor...It is in the 3rd chapter pg52 in my edition at the bottom of the 3rd last paragraph and I quote "In after years Denethor, son of Lenwe, turned again west at last, and led a part of that people over the mountains into Beleriand ere the rising of the moon."
He is an elf not the Steward of Gondor. Maybe Christopher Tolkien could have perhaps made an error when he was editing his father's work (which I highly doubt) or is there just a third Denethor that is an elf in the first age? I have a Tolkien Companion but it was published a year before The Silmarillion, it has Denethor one and two who were both Stewards of Gondor, and it mentions in the "S" section that the Silmarillion has not yet been published. Please anybody I need your expert opinion and please help me find out the truth to this matter. you can e-mail me or reply here, but i won't be able to answer for two weeks as I will be away on vacation. [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img] escallhugwen@hotmail.com
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Old 06-29-2003, 06:30 PM   #2
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The Eye

whoops i accident;y put this in movies oh well i'm sure you people out there will still answer me! [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 06-29-2003, 07:27 PM   #3
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Sting

I don't think it's an error, because there's also a Haldir and a Boromir in The Silmarillion that aren't the same people as the ones in LOTR.
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Old 06-29-2003, 08:00 PM   #4
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Denethor is indeed a third of that name. Denethor of Ossiriand was an elf.
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Old 06-30-2003, 09:48 AM   #5
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Sting

Tolkien reused names a lot, especially the names of Gondorian nobles, who would have named their children after historical personages of the First Age. I'm sure that both the names Denethor and Boromir were used frequently. Tolkien did the same thing with Legolas. There is a Legolas of Gondolin, who helped the survivors escape, and the Legolas that we all know, Legolas of Mirkwood.
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Old 06-30-2003, 02:41 PM   #6
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Silmaril

Since this is a book question, I'm moving the thread to the Novices and Newcomers forum. You may continue to read and post there.
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Old 07-05-2003, 12:13 PM   #7
al'Thingolfin
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Sting

Finwe said:
There is a Legolas of Gondolin, who helped the survivors escape, and the Legolas that we all know, Legolas of Mirkwood.

I might be wrong, but isn't Legolas of Gondolin just the earlier form of Legolas from Mirkwood?
I don't think he's another character.
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Old 07-05-2003, 03:29 PM   #8
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Sting

Nah, we can be certain that they were very distinct characters. Legolas of Gondolin, however, might be considered to have been abandoned as a name/idea by the time of LotR or later; we cannot really say since Tolkien never dealt with the Fall of Gondolin as thoroughfully as with the very early version which has Legolas in it. We do know that Elven names are not unique, however, so they may well have both existed.

As for the reusing of names such as Denethor or Boromir, I would like to point out that is not primarily because the author liked the names, but in order to represent the very credible circumstance that Men named themselves after heroes of old legends (including mortals, of course).
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Old 07-11-2003, 06:25 PM   #9
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The Eye

Thank you all for your input, i should have thought of them re-naming their children after famous people because of course we do it as well. No one really has a very distinct name for example many people of the world are named sean, jennifer, etc. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 07-12-2003, 01:30 AM   #10
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Quote:
but in order to represent the very credible circumstance that Men named themselves after heroes of old legends (including mortals, of course).
Indeed - you will find a number of names (mostly of the First and Second Ages) repeated by the (mostly) men of later years, especially with kings (/stewards) of Numenor/Gondor. Here's a couple of lists off the top of my head...

More famous characters whose names were repeated: Beren, Beleg, Dior, Ecthelion, Barahir, Earendil, Finduilas, Turgon, Turambar, Turin, Hurin, Hador, Voronwe, Nimloth

More famous characters whose names are repeats of earlier characters: Aragorn, Beregond, Boromir, Faramir, Denethor, Haldir, Gildor

Dwarves and hobbits reused names even more often. There is also a large number of lesser-known kings of men whose names repeat.

[ July 18, 2003: Message edited by: Legolas ]
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