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Old 06-08-2019, 09:49 AM   #2761
Urwen
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Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
How about Fangorn? Wokia says he might have been named after Fangorn Forest.


I can't find anyone else named after a tree
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Old 06-08-2019, 10:29 AM   #2762
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Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
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White Tree

I thought it was named after him... but then his name contains "tree" anyway. Not him though.

"Orn", as in "Fangorn", is the Sindarin for "tree". You need the Quenya word.
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Old 06-08-2019, 10:43 AM   #2763
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Time to consult my good friend, Parf Edhellen, then.
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Old 06-08-2019, 10:45 AM   #2764
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I see. I thought so but wasn't sure. The other is Tar-Aldarion.
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Old 06-09-2019, 03:38 AM   #2765
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Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
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Thumbs up

That's it! Well done.
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Old 06-09-2019, 03:53 AM   #2766
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I lived in a land without hate
With my apprentices three
But by the hands of fate
All three were taken from me

The first one, second in command
Of the Enemy, Marrer of lands
I am one of those who guard the light
Even if it's him I'd have to fight

The second one, overtaken by greed
He dwelt high up in his tower
The destroyer of my beloved's creation
All because he sought power

The third one, greatest of them all
With skill beyond measure
Great was his fall
Blessed was his treasure

I lived in that land
With my apprentices three
Now here's the riddle
Who are they, and who am I?
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Old 06-09-2019, 05:57 AM   #2767
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Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
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I think the speaker is Aulë, and the "apprentices" are, in order, Sauron, Saruman and Fëanor. Explanation to follow.
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Old 06-09-2019, 06:10 AM   #2768
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Looking forward to seeing it.
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Old 06-09-2019, 06:21 AM   #2769
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Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
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Silmaril

I lived in a land without hate -Valinor.
With my apprentices three
But by the hands of fate
All three were taken from me

The first one, second in command
Of the Enemy, Marrer of lands
-describes Sauron.
I am one of those who guard the light
Even if it's him I'd have to fight
-confirms speaker as a good character, therefore not Morgoth, therefore the only other person to whom Sauron was an "apprentice": Aulë.

The second one, overtaken by greed
He dwelt high up in his tower
The destroyer of my beloved's creation
All because he sought power
-Saruman, also a Maia of Aulë, lived in Orthanc and his extensive tree-felling can't have endeared him to Yavanna.

The third one, greatest of them all
With skill beyond measure
Great was his fall
Blessed was his treasure
-Feanor, whose "blessed treasure" was of course the Silmarils.
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Old 06-09-2019, 06:32 AM   #2770
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Thumbs up

Entirely correct.
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:04 AM   #2771
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Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
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Pipe

Okay, I think you'll like this one.

Father of traitors yet none to myself
Friend to neither Man nor Elf
Lover and slayer of kin and of foe
My own I will take and by choice I will go.
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:15 AM   #2772
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It's the father of wrench-owned one, ain't he?

And, actually, it's the opposite. I don't like him at all. He is number 2 on my hate list, right after Phary.

And technically, he isn't a father of 'traitors', as he only had one child before that entire family went bazinga.
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:19 AM   #2773
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Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
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Well, hang on, who do you think the answer is?

I assure you the plural is deliberate.

Edit: did you just put the actual guess in? I didn't see it before. Yes, it's Eöl- but can you explain it all?
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:44 AM   #2774
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Father of traitors yet none to myself - Aglanchel and Lomion his children
Friend to neither Man nor Elf - Debatable, considering who eventually received Anglachel and who his family were
Lover and slayer of kin and of foe
My own I will take and by choice I will go. - More or less his mindset and words in the Silm

But, like I said, I don't like him at all.
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:17 AM   #2775
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Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
So, do I get to go now.....?
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:25 AM   #2776
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Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
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Yep!
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:30 AM   #2777
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Here is one about two characters I do like.

Fire you were named for
And, originally, so was I
Renowned you were, and I was not
And death was what we got

The vast lands of Beleriand
Neither of us got to see
I was too weak to live
You were too fey to wait or flee
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:59 AM   #2778
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Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
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Silmaril

I think the speaker is your namesake, Urwen/Lalaith, and the one addressed is Fëanor.


Fire you were named for
And, originally, so was I
-"Spirit of fire" and "Fire-maiden"
Renowned you were, and I was not
And death was what we got
-I don't think this needs elaboration.

The vast lands of Beleriand
Neither of us got to see
-Neither Dor-lómin, where Lalaith lived out her short life, nor Mithrim, where Fëanor died, are part of Beleriand proper.
I was too weak to live
You were too fey to wait or flee
-She died from a childhood illness; he was killed in battle due to his recklessness.
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Old 06-10-2019, 08:11 AM   #2779
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Ye, though I didn't know that neither Dor-Lomin or Mithrim were a part of Beleriand.
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Old 06-10-2019, 08:19 AM   #2780
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A bit of trivia: the places where they died are right next to each other on this map:
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Old 06-10-2019, 08:26 AM   #2781
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A bit of trivia: the places where they died are right next to each other on this map:
My guess is that 'Beleriand stops at the mountains' was a bit of Feanorian/Fingolfinian pedantry to avoid having to pay homage to Thingol. "Yes, I know he's King of Beleriand, the wide forested lands either side of the Sirion - but we're north of all that up here. That makes this land unclaimed, right?"

Only the Finarfinions were able to admit that yes, actually, it was all Thingol's and he was very generous to let them muck about in it.

(And then of course the Feanorions migrated south, losing even that shred of justification...)

hS
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Old 06-10-2019, 08:31 AM   #2782
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Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Anyway, over to Nerwen
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Old 06-11-2019, 06:12 AM   #2783
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Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
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Nothing, and a jewel incomplete;
To my heirs a jewel I bequeathed;
Long treasured, long drowned,
For a jewel my jewel was found.
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Old 06-11-2019, 06:35 AM   #2784
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Hmm. 'Long drowned', of a jewel, makes me think of the original Elendilmir, which went into the river with Isildur. It was found by Saruman looking for the Ring, so 'for a jewel [it] was found' would fit.

'Long treasured' also fits: it was an heirloom of Andunie since Silmarien. 'To my heirs a jewel I bequeathed' says the speaker must be one of its bearers before its loss: Silmarien, Valandil, Earendur, Amandil, Elendil, or Isildur.

So 'Nothing, and a jewel incomplete' sounds like a cryptic/spell-it-out line. SILMARIEN? Her name is mostly an incomplete Silmaril, with just 'en/ne' left over as 'nothing'.

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Old 06-11-2019, 06:44 AM   #2785
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Thumbs up

Quote:
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Hmm. 'Long drowned', of a jewel, makes me think of the original Elendilmir, which went into the river with Isildur. It was found by Saruman looking for the Ring, so 'for a jewel [it] was found' would fit.

'Long treasured' also fits: it was an heirloom of Andunie since Silmarien. 'To my heirs a jewel I bequeathed' says the speaker must be one of its bearers before its loss: Silmarien, Valandil, Earendur, Amandil, Elendil, or Isildur.

So 'Nothing, and a jewel incomplete' sounds like a cryptic/spell-it-out line. SILMARIEN? Her name is mostly an incomplete Silmaril, with just 'en/ne' left over as 'nothing'.

hS
You've got it!

However, by "for a jewel my jewel was found" I meant, "to be worn by Elessar" and I was think of the last part of Silmarien's name being "rien" (i.e. "nothing" in French).

Over to you!
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Old 06-11-2019, 07:55 AM   #2786
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Ohhh yeah, Elessar. Forgot about him in my haste to rush to Saruman. ^_^

Under shadow, under earth,
By foul magics hid from sight.
To the deepest place I venture,
And its denizen bring to light.


hS
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:27 AM   #2787
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Makes me think of Aredhel, who forced Eol to follow her&her protector to 'light'.
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:29 AM   #2788
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Makes me think of Aredhel, who forced Eol to follow her&her protector to 'light'.
That's a nice answer. In this case, however, the bringing to light is entirely intentional.

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Old 06-11-2019, 08:33 AM   #2789
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Sounds like Jean Valjean hunting for Cosette, (without the magic), but I have a feeling that isn't the answer.
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:37 AM   #2790
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Sounds like Jean Valjean hunting for Cosette, (without the magic), but I have a feeling that isn't the answer.
Darn, I didn't know anyone else remembered the Tolkien translation of Les Mis.



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Old 06-11-2019, 08:38 AM   #2791
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Luthien?

Under shadow, under earth,
By foul magics hid from sight. - Tol-in-Gaurhoth, controlled by Sauron's evil magics
To the deepest place I venture - Self-explanatory
And its denizen bring to light. -
Beren
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:43 AM   #2792
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Luthien?

Under shadow, under earth,
By foul magics hid from sight. - Tol-in-Gaurhoth, controlled by Sauron's evil magics
To the deepest place I venture - Self-explanatory
And its denizen bring to light. -
Beren
You're a long way off in time, space, and characters, but actually really close in the meanings of virtually every line.

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Old 06-11-2019, 08:46 AM   #2793
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So 'hid from sight' is the key line? And the answer is a person?
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:48 AM   #2794
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Ah-ha, I've got it! You said my Luthien guess was close, meaning that the subject of the riddle rescue someone they loved from captivity in a dark place. Let me check whether what I've got in mind is accurate.
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:48 AM   #2795
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So 'hid from sight' is the key line? And the answer is a person?
'Hid from sight' will certainly make it easier, if you figure out what it means. The answer is a person in a specific place and time.

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Old 06-11-2019, 08:59 AM   #2796
Urwen
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Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Never mind, for the denizen I thought of was imprisoned far above, not far below.
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:05 AM   #2797
Huinesoron
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Originally Posted by Urwen View Post
Ah-ha, I've got it! You said my Luthien guess was close, meaning that the subject of the riddle rescue someone they loved from captivity in a dark place. Let me check whether what I've got in mind is accurate.
Not quite, but most of that, yes.

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Old 06-11-2019, 09:10 AM   #2798
Pervinca Took
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Is it Gandalf and the Balrog? Although he didn't seek him out on purpose.

He did find Thrain, though, in the pits of Dol Guldur.
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:13 AM   #2799
Huinesoron
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Originally Posted by Pervinca Took View Post
Is it Gandalf and the Balrog? Although he didn't seek him out on purpose.

He did find Thrain, though, in the pits of Dol Guldur.
You're much closer to the right time and place, but Urwen was closer on the general concepts.

Your second guess is even closer.

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Old 06-11-2019, 09:17 AM   #2800
Pervinca Took
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Not Gandalf's 'rescue' of Theoden?

(I have a feeling I am getting colder).
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