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Old 05-01-2007, 02:29 PM   #521
Nogrod
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Back again from the May 1st... And how interesting this is getting! And as Spm said, I feel the tide turning after many arduous Days and Nights. Let's figure this out!

My first thoughts: let's lynch Eomer who even himself kind of admitted (that's the new wolf stategy - being absent and then saying "I don't mind but love to see you take the toil of it"). Anyhow that would probably kill a wolf and thence relieve Kitanna as she clearly might then be our helper in our success. Okay, the vampires might kill her then but there are lots of other targets for them as well (myself, Rikae, Boro, Mac). So everything's open for the future after that.

And good work ranger and shade! One thing that caught my eye was that the narration led us understand that it was the same person that the shade and the ranger protected. So it might not have been Rikae as Rikae was defended last Night already? This would say the vamps were not after Rikae last Night.

So Kitanna, you might consider telling us who did you cover last Night as you have now revealed yourself anyhow! I know why you wouldn't, but just think of the spirit of the winning on the side of the goodies! And possibly we win this with your help toMorrow without you needing to go down (they might wish to kill Rikae, myself, Mac, Boro instead).

The information would be nice as I think the Ranger should lay low as s/he has so far at this moment a reason not to reveal whom s/he protected.

Yay ranger! You're driving those baddies mad! Kudos!

Edit: X'd with a few... + added a few "s" to where they belonged... + made sense of a sentence that had none before... (the last one before the Kudos! -one)
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Old 05-01-2007, 02:47 PM   #522
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Kitanna speaks the truth = Eomer is a vampire.

-------
Kitanna lies to us = Eomer is or is not a vampire.

In that case we waste one kill (Eomer) but as we have so many known innocents (at least three) we can afford to trust that so much as to try it out this way. I mean the shade helped us last Night (according to the narration) and thence wished us good - as that is reasonable anyhow - and so far Kitanna is the only one to have voiced it...



But let's us not leave the discussion here!


If Eomer indeed is a vampire that opens all the discussion from Day1 votes again!

And the situation changes...
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Old 05-01-2007, 03:18 PM   #523
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Woo.

++Eomer

Let's see.... this post may not make a lot of sense, because I'm leaving in... fifteen minutes to go to work, but here goes:

Confirmed Innocents:

Rikae
Nogrod
Macalaure
Boromir


Shade:

Kitanna

Would it make sense to say that all of yesterday's Legate voters are innocent?
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Old 05-01-2007, 03:29 PM   #524
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Lommy is innocent.

++Eomer.
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Old 05-01-2007, 03:44 PM   #525
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Erm, guys? Didn't Eomer just admit he's a Vampire, more or less?
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Old 05-01-2007, 03:45 PM   #526
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i missed half the day and we alreayd bagged ourselves a vampie and possibly one more!

after Legates death, who is a vampire, i still want to incline to my theory before, but now Shasta doesn't seem that vampirish, and if Kitanna is right and Eomer is the vampire then we are good to go

In Kitanna we trust

++Eomer


(OOC: for fear of not coming back on, it is my bros b-day, i vote now)

Xed: with Sixth
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Old 05-01-2007, 03:50 PM   #527
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Yeah, why not...

++Eomer of the Rohirrim
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Old 05-01-2007, 03:55 PM   #528
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Upgrading as I think this...

I agree with lynchig Eomer toDay.

But let us not be too hasty with it to subdue any other discussion. We still have the third Vampire around and s/he should not slip us!

So I come back to this:

Day3
Di: Glirdy (Glirdy 1)
Xyzzy: Nogrod (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1)
Gil: Shasta (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1)
Sixth: Durelin (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1)
Esspiem: Legate (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 1)
Rikae: Spm (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 1, Spm 1)
Shasta: Legate (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 2, Spm 1)
Boro: Spm (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 2, Spm 2)
Lommy: Spm (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 2, Spm 3)
Kitanna: Eomer (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 2, Spm 3, Eomer 1)
Rune: Legate (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 3, Spm 3, Eomer 1)
Aganzir: Spm (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 3, Spm 4, Eomer 1)
Durelin: Legate (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 4, Spm 4, Eomer 1)
Mac: Spm (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 4, Spm 5, Eomer 1)
Nogrod: Spm (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 4, Spm 6, Eomer 1)

No votes: Glirdy (dead innocent), Legate (dead vampire), Eomer

-----
According to Boro (a known innocent) Legate (a vampire) received 5 votes and not 4 as was told!

According to the stated voting Spm got 6 votes and not the 5 / 4 he might have actually received.

According to the information toDay, the shade was helping us innocent villagers... so we should take Kitanna's word for her vote as given at this moment.

If you look at the tally it means that Rikae, Boro, Mac and myself voted for Spm. And as we have no reason to lie at this point (I as a hunter voted indeed Spm) it looks like Spm had four votes at least.

But Legate had actually 5 votes as a known innocent claims it to be so!

Spm, Shasta, Rune, Durelin voted for Legate - it's four votes and there is then one missing...

So they are innocent as well?

Probably they are... as we need the innocent people to vote.

So what say you Aganzir? Your vote might have just fitted in before Spm got his...

I need to think this more carefully again but this far I might say our vampires are Eomer and Aganzir.

The Day1 voting needs to be seen again, though. I can see Eomer twisting that thing with one but with two? Then it leads to Kitanna...

But lynching Eomer will give us a lot of the answers to begin with.

EDIT: X'd with a few...
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Last edited by Nogrod; 05-01-2007 at 04:02 PM. Reason: I said we still have the fourth vampire around instead of the third... see how suspicious I am with these... ;)
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Old 05-01-2007, 04:21 PM   #529
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++ Eomer

Also I'd like to say I did NOT attack Rikae on Night 3. In fact I tried to kill Eomer in the night, but it appeared he had been protected from my attack. As you may have guessed I protected Rikae last night.

Since there's a good chance of my own demise tonight, I am looking for thoughts on who the third vampire may be. I can't protect anyone tonight and I'd hate to think a dream may go to waste, but I can attempt to kill the third vampire if, as a village, we can reach a general consensus.
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Old 05-01-2007, 04:22 PM   #530
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If Lommy is innocent it makes Spm gathering 5 votes.

That means the Legate must have acquired the same 5 votes before Spm.

How is that possible?

Spm was voted by 5 known innocents: Rikae, Lommy, Boro, Mac and Nogrod. So there has to be at least 5 Legate voters...

The Legate voters were: Spm, Shasta, Rune, Durelin.

So we're missing at least one here.

Looking at the voting record (not that we can take it from the face-value as the vampires might have voted a lot earlier / later that they claimed they did) it looks like Aganzir's vote on Spm is the one that solves the problem (it fits well also with the way Eomer the possible vampire lied about the tally in the first place).

Now you ask whether a first timer would have been so sneaky... I can tell you she might just as well be. She's no newcomew into this game.

But let's lynch Eomer toDay and see how you other people react to this solution...

Remember baddies, as a hunter I might say one thing and hunt the other one.

EDit: X'd with Kitanna...
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Old 05-01-2007, 04:36 PM   #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitanna
I can attempt to kill the third vampire if, as a village, we can reach a general consensus.
Eomer was then protected by Legate or the X. Now Eomer will be killed so how about you try Aganzir toNight. I might hunt her as well. We might get her nicely before she can do any further harm... or at least lynch her toMorrow.

But to complicate things again...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kit
Also I'd like to say I did NOT attack Rikae on Night 3. In fact I tried to kill Eomer in the night, but it appeared he had been protected from my attack.
So who was it? Should we try to go on interpreting the narration again? So it was a vampire-ranger who did the protecting there? (I have gathered the vampires in the narrations must be out of their bodies anyhow - so as they discuss things they can refer to people of the village, even themselves).

But that's a question I might hope some contributions of you others....

I stil think voting Eomer toDay is a good idea (solves at least a couple of riddles), but there seems to be discrepancies still... I try to think more of them tomorrow (RL) as now I'm off to sleep...
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Old 05-01-2007, 05:14 PM   #532
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Well, that's easy.

++Eomer.

Hmm... hopefully the night will reveal for sure who the final vampire is.
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Old 05-01-2007, 05:21 PM   #533
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I think Rikae's a wolf.
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Old 05-01-2007, 05:23 PM   #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogrod
I stil think voting Eomer toDay is a good idea ...
Erm, yes, I should imagine that it is given that he has admitted to being a Vampire!

The only other possibility is that he is the Shade and has taken the side of the Vampires. Unlikely, given that this would make Kitanna a Vampire and she was the one who outed him. In any event, if this is the case, we simply lynch Kitanna toMorrow and still have numbers on our side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogrod
I need to think this more carefully again but this far I might say our vampires are Eomer and Aganzir.
The only problem with this is that, unless Gil was lying about his Day 1 vote, then Rikae received four votes (Menel, Gil, Brinniel and Nogrod). Which means that Celuien must have received at least four votes too. There were four votes stated for her - Lomiella, Eomer, Roa and Aganzir. Given that Eomer's vote did not count, this rather suggests that Aganzir's did, and even then we are still missing a vote for Celuien.

No one has indicated that they lied about their votes for Menel (7 stated - but one was Legate's - 5 received) or me (6 stated, 5 or less received). Which suggests that the remaining Vampire claimed to have voted for Menel on Day 2 and me on Day 3.

The only non-known innocents to vote for Menel (other than Legate) were Rune, Aganzir and me.

The only non-known innocent to vote for me was Aganzir.

So the Celuien votes suggest that Aganzir is not a Vampire, while the votes for me suggest that she is the only one who could be.

Aaargh!

It is, of course, possible that someone was lying about their vote for Rikae and/or that someone was lying about their vote for Celuien. But why would they do that if Aganzir is the third Vampire?

Add to that a vote for Legate still unaccounted for, and it seems that an innocent has been lying about their vote. But why?

I'm stumped.

It remains possible that Nogrod is the third Vampire, as that I think would fit with all the voting 'facts' that we know. But everyone has spoken since he first made his Hunter claim and again toDay, I think, and no one has sought to contest his claim. So, unless this 'real Hunter' is holding out on us (and why would she/he do so?), that cannot be the case.
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Old 05-01-2007, 05:27 PM   #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durelin
I think Rikae's a wolf.
What?!?

...Okay, after thinking about that, you may be right. I won't be the first... second... twelfth to jump on that suggestion, but I suppose it's an extremely remote, highly improbable possibility.

I would suggest trusting Kitanna; Rikae can examine him tonight, and if something comes up, he's dead. And if Rikae turns out to be wrong, we have our last Vampire.
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Old 05-01-2007, 05:28 PM   #536
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Where does xyzzy factor in to all of this?

What a marvellous cross-post.
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Old 05-01-2007, 05:28 PM   #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durelin
I think Rikae's a wolf.
Why, yes, that's a possibility. The Vampire Seer may have spotted Mac and Boro as innocents, allowing her to safely claim them as such.

But then, surely now is the time for the real Seer (who, in this situation, has been keeping quiet in order to buy time) to step forward so that we can wrap this thing up?
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Old 05-01-2007, 05:38 PM   #538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xyzzy
What?!?

...Okay, after thinking about that, you may be right. I won't be the first... second... twelfth to jump on that suggestion, but I suppose it's an extremely remote, highly improbable possibility.

I would suggest trusting Kitanna; Rikae can examine him tonight, and if something comes up, he's dead. And if Rikae turns out to be wrong, we have our last Vampire.
I wish I were a vampire, that would be much more impressive than my pathetic performance as seer.
Oh, and by the way, Kitanna is female...

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Old 05-01-2007, 05:42 PM   #539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyzzy
I would suggest trusting Kitanna; Rikae can examine him tonight ...
Er, we will know if Kitanna is what she claimes to be if we lynch Eomer (which we are well on the way to doing) and he is proven to be a Vampire. He has, in any event, admitted as much, so the chanes that she is a Vampire are ... erm ... negligible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durelin
Where does xyzzy factor in to all of this?
Xyzzy claimed to have voted for Lomiella on Day 1, Rune on Day 2 and Nogrod on Day 3, so that doesn't really help us.
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Old 05-01-2007, 05:45 PM   #540
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Ok, so let's take it from this approach, and just start eliminating names to get the last wolf narrowed down as far as possible. So we have:

Gil-Galad
The Saucepan Man
Rikae
Boromir88
Nogrod
Thinlómien
Aganzir
Xyzzy
Macalaure
Diamond18
Shastanis Althreduin
Kitanna
Durelin
Rune Son of Bjarne
The Sixth Wizard


Ok, so known innocents based upon revelations and seer dreams:

Rikae
Nogrod
Kitanna
Mac
Boro
Thinlomien


Presumed innocent (and fairly sure they're innocent), based upon voting for Legate yesterday:

Sauce
Shasta
Rune
Durelin


With one more being unknown.

I honestly think that we should just forget about the Celuien votes, as evil vampire Eomer was behind that. So, I honestly think any attempt at trying to dissect it will just lead to confusion (as it already has today).

Leaving:

Gil
Aganzir
Xyzzy
Diamond
The Sixth


Of those, based upon Nogrod's revelation as the lynch seer yesterday, the only one that would fit to being a vampire (since Kitanna - the shade- did not vote for Menel) would be Aganzir.

Now, SpM, I think there are all sorts of possibilities and what not if Nogrod is messing with us, an innocent villager is lying about their votes..etc. But, I think we go with the practical answer that sitting right in front of us...and that is Menel received 5 votes, from 7 claimed...one vampire has been found, the other only one there we don't know about is Aganzir. Yesterday from the 6 claimed against SpM, he must have received at most 5...the only one we don't know about is Aganzir.

So, I think since we have a big advantage in numbers we go for the practical and the person that's sitting right in front of our face we don't know about their identity and both times the votes didn't add up...that person of course is Aganzir.

We lynch Eomer today and Kitanna, Nogrod, whoever go after Aganzir tonight. If Aganzir is not the last vampire, someone is pulling our leg and we need to start searching again.

Edit: x-ed with several people
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Old 05-01-2007, 05:56 PM   #541
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*doesn't want to believe it's Aganzir*
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Old 05-01-2007, 06:07 PM   #542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boromir88
So, I think since we have a big advantage in numbers we go for the practical and the person that's sitting right in front of our face we don't know about their identity and both times the votes didn't add up...that person of course is Aganzir.

We lynch Eomer today and Kitanna, Nogrod, whoever go after Aganzir tonight. If Aganzir is not the last vampire, someone is pulling our leg and we need to start searching again.
I do agree... But as I have chances to come back before the Day closes I'll reserve my vote still to foresee any miracles.

But without them I'm going for checking Eomer... via a lynch toDay.

And didn't I say that the shade would win with us?

Feeling good at the moment (it can change but at the moment all looks bright the first time...)!
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Old 05-01-2007, 06:20 PM   #543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by me
Er, we will know if Kitanna is what she claims to be if we lynch Eomer (which we are well on the way to doing) and he is proven to be a Vampire.
Scrub that. As Di noted, there is a possibility that both Eomer and Kitanna are Vampires (and the Shade remains hidden), although its highly improbable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boro
I honestly think that we should just forget about the Celuien votes, as evil vampire Eomer was behind that.
But I am not basing my reasoning on Eomer's Lynch Seer revelation. I am basing it on the fact that, if Nogrod is true, Rikae received three votes from known innocents, and a fourth from unknown Gil. Which means that Celuien must have received at least three votes, possibly four. Discounting Eomer's vote, only three people claimed to vote for Celuien - Lomiella, Roa and Aganzir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durelin
*doesn't want to believe it's Aganzir*
Me neither. I'm all for Boro's suggestion of discounting the unlikely and going for the likely, but the Celuien vote makes me wonder how the third Vampire can be Aganzir.

But, I agree that we should lynch Eomer toDay, and that gives us the rest of toDay and another Day after that to ponder the identity of the third Vamp.

Btw, I am still awaiting an apology from all of those who suddenly turned against me yesterDay with no solid evidence whatsoever, other than the fact that I came across as being helpful ...
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Old 05-01-2007, 06:21 PM   #544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogrod
I'll reserve my vote still to foresee any miracles.
Sorry...

Just waiting for any miraculous revelations to happen or something... I really don't think I can foresee anything but by logic. And these should be there for all of us to share. So just see for yourselves!

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Old 05-01-2007, 06:35 PM   #545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man
Btw, I am still awaiting an apology from all of those who suddenly turned against me yesterDay with no solid evidence whatsoever, other than the fact that I came across as being helpful ...
That's the problem with you.

You're so helpful and your voting record is terrible and the way you refer to it with all those smilies - being the first to note that "I am such an suspicious one as well " - made me feel more than suspicious of you. You're so ready to prevent any supicions by stating them yourself that it makes one wonder...

Not to say that you looked as helpful to the village, not only by mere words but performatively as well, that I thought you must be a vampire as I would have done the very same were I a vamp here...

But yes, I'm feeling a lot safer with you right now as the things are bubbling in other quarters. I indeed felt a little bad voting you even though I had you as my main suspect... For Legate (my last Night's hunted) I had much less in belief even though a bit more in reason... well what do you learn of that after all?

But as a hunter I will not say anything and reserve my right to hunt whoever I see fit for the next Night.
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Old 05-01-2007, 06:49 PM   #546
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Nogrod, we "know" you're the Hunter...you can stop reminding us in nearly every post...

I can still certainly stop believing you.
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Old 05-01-2007, 07:01 PM   #547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogrod
You're so helpful ...
But don't you see that I cannot win by this logic? If I was not being helpful, you would be one of the first to remark on it and cast suspicion on me for it.

I mean, your comment yesterDay (#453) that I looked suspicious for having put forward ideas that worked against the Vampires was just ludicrous. How would you have me play? Silent, unhelpful and surly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogrod
... and your voting record is terrible ...
Er, excuse me? I have voted for one more Vampire than you have (unless Rikae be false).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogrod
You're so ready to prevent any supicions by stating them yourself that it makes one wonder...
Yes, and if I did not state such things, then I would be labelled as suspicious for having tried to hide the fact that reasoning that I bring forward might implicate me.

Still, this is perhaps best saved for the afterthread, when we know what's what.

After all, for all you know, I might be a Vampire yet.

(I'm not, by the way - so I'm looking forward to that apology ).
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Old 05-01-2007, 07:06 PM   #548
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Nogrod, we "know" you're the Hunter...
You mean ... Noggie said that he's the Hunter ...? Blimey!
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Old 05-01-2007, 07:19 PM   #549
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Originally Posted by xyzzy
I would suggest trusting Kitanna; Rikae can examine him tonight, and if something comes up, he's dead. And if Rikae turns out to be wrong, we have our last Vampire.
I think it would be an absolute and complete waste for Rikae to dream of Kitanna. She's the Shade. Trust her.

Oh and Durelin's the Cobbler. Ignore her.

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Old 05-01-2007, 07:26 PM   #550
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would it be totaly wack to make a system where 2 our of

Gil
Aganzir
Xyzzy
Diamond
The Sixth


was told to vote for one person x and afterwards the 3 others was told to vote for another y. (each group voting for the same person)

If X dies we know that it was because that it reached 2 votes the first and that the wolf is in the second group, if Y dies it means that the vampire is in the other group,

Of course the fault with this plan is that it only works if we are sure there is a vampire in that group and we are not. . ..so actually you should just forget what I just said.

Well, I am going to leave the sugestion up, just in case it becomes relevant at some point.
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Old 05-01-2007, 07:37 PM   #551
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I'd say that's a good suggestion, Rune...if they would all do as we command ..
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Old 05-01-2007, 07:42 PM   #552
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I'd say that's a good suggestion, Rune...if they would all do as we command ..
I'd be willing to die to find the last Vampire. I like the idea.
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Old 05-01-2007, 07:54 PM   #553
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Oh and Durelin's the Cobbler. Ignore her.
Oh noes! What sort of crackpot induction be this?! *flails about with a cobble-cobble*

++Durelin
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Old 05-01-2007, 07:59 PM   #554
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Well, I suppose we will have to take a look at it tomorrow as we already have a lot of eomer votes.

which suits me fine as I am not sure when I can return and right now I really need sleep. It has been a long day and I got very little sleep last night.

and so I will vote like everybody else (save Durelin) for Eomer.

++Eomer
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Old 05-01-2007, 09:48 PM   #555
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o.o Oops... I'm glad day's not over, as I actually forgot to send my vote in.

*blush*

Sending it right now.

And to... SPM, I think, talking about the votes on Celuien... The tally of votes on Celuien is almost certainly false, given that Eomer was the Lynch Seer that day, and he's vampiric.
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Old 05-01-2007, 09:52 PM   #556
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So here is the final list(that i can think of)

Gil
Aganzir
Xyzzy
Diamond
The Sixth
Esspiem
Rune


now that we got the Shade and Seer working side by side, i guess we can then start sytemamtically going through this list and corner the vampire... i think this is going to be the first game where none of the gifted had died...
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Old 05-01-2007, 10:15 PM   #557
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If it doesn't end up being Aganzir, I'll probably vote for Gil.

Of course, some of that's the revenge talking.
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Old 05-02-2007, 02:15 AM   #558
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A very quick comment

SPM and others who examine voting records: please don't bang your heads to the wall or anything even though the records don't make sense - there is always the possibility of some innocent stating a vote but forgetting to e-mail or pm the vote. I don't claim this is probable, but it's certainly possible.
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Old 05-02-2007, 02:48 AM   #559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man
Btw, I am still awaiting an apology from all of those who suddenly turned against me yesterDay with no solid evidence whatsoever, other than the fact that I came across as being helpful ...
Allow me to delay my apology until your innocence is written green on black.

I don't expect anything to happen that could change my vote, so: ++Eomer

Nogrod, if you hunt Aganzir tonight, it will only make you a marvellous aim for the vampire if Aganzir is innocent. But I guess Kitanna will be the nightly kill anyway. The ranger has to protect Rikae, and only by killing Kitanna the vampire will have a chance to kill Rikae the next night.
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Old 05-02-2007, 02:54 AM   #560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shasta
SPM, I think, talking about the votes on Celuien... The tally of votes on Celuien is almost certainly false, given that Eomer was the Lynch Seer that day, and he's vampiric.
For about the fourth time:

Quote:
Originally Posted by me
But I am not basing my reasoning on Eomer's Lynch Seer revelation. I am basing it on the fact that, if Nogrod is true, Rikae received three votes from known innocents, and a fourth from unknown Gil. Which means that Celuien must have received at least three votes, possibly four. Discounting Eomer's vote, only three people claimed to vote for Celuien - Lomiella, Roa and Aganzir.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lomiella
SPM and others who examine voting records: please don't bang your heads to the wall or anything even though the records don't make sense - there is always the possibility of some innocent stating a vote but forgetting to e-mail or pm the vote. I don't claim this is probable, but it's certainly possible.
Yes, I am well aware of that possibility. But it can apply to any of the votes. That said, it is more likely that one such mistake was made (the Celuien vote) than two (the Menel and Esspiem votes).
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