The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-19-2002, 02:05 PM   #1
QuickSlash
Wight
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Not here.
Posts: 121
QuickSlash has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to QuickSlash Send a message via Yahoo to QuickSlash
Sting Food of the Elves?

What kind of things did the elves in ME eat? We all know of lembas, but what else? I can picture many soups and breads, but I'm sure that there are some exact things out there.
__________________
We're here and now, but will we ever be again? / 'Cause I have found / All that shimmers in this world is sure to fade, away, again. -Shimmer, Fuel
QuickSlash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2002, 02:17 PM   #2
Turin Turambar
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: U.S.A
Posts: 24
Turin Turambar has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

I would assume they ate the same foods as the rest of the inhabitants of middle-earth, with the exception of lembas. I think Tolkien would have made it known if they ate other types like he did for lembas.
__________________
"Yea, I will drink thy blood gladly, that so I may forget the blood of Beleg my master, and the blood of Brandir slain unjustly. I will slay thee swiftly."
The sword Gurthang
Turin Turambar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2002, 03:30 PM   #3
Orald
Shadow of Malice
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: right behind you
Posts: 843
Orald has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Orald Send a message via Yahoo to Orald
Sting

There have been threads on this before and people end up arguing whether or not Elves would have been vegetarians. Just thought I should mention that so we might strike up an argument [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

I assume they have agriculture and have domesticated animals, but I think they hunt and maybe forage a little. To support my theories I present that Oromė hunted in Valinor and Elves knew of the healing abilities of athelas.
Orald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2002, 03:59 PM   #4
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,650
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Tolkien

Well, I don't know about striking up an argument, but could you point me in the direction of some evidence that the Elves had agriculture. I can't recall any mention ever being made of any fields or farmlands that belonged to the Elves. Of course, for that matter I can't remember that any Men were described with regards to their farming, except for Hobbits. The only other one that I recall being mentioned with relation to agriculture was Sauron, oddly enough. It would be interesting because so many Elf kingdoms were in the woods, and many Elves preferred a nomadic lifestyle.

The Elves certainly had horses, but whether they were domesticated is a bit murky because all animals were "tame" for Elves.

As for hunting, the Wood-elves were hunting for stag in the Hobbit so they did do that.

[ May 19, 2002: Message edited by: Kuruharan ]
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2002, 01:05 AM   #5
Orald
Shadow of Malice
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: right behind you
Posts: 843
Orald has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Orald Send a message via Yahoo to Orald
Sting

I think it is safe to say Men had agriculture. But we are talking about Elves here. Granted not all Elves would have been farmers. So I submit that Elves had a truly advanced form of agriculture where only a few had to work and they could exploit very little land and still have a bountiful harvest able to feed all the Elves of the given kingdom, along with supplemental food from hunting and gathering and any domestication of animals. The hunting and gathering thing is a given, we know they do because Tolkien wrote about it. The thing is, he didn't write about it very much. Maybe he didn't think it was important aspect of the stories. Also, his stories center around kings and warriors, a farming elf doesn't have any place in his works. Moving on to animal domestication. Dogs and horses both were, there are numerous references all through the texts. I don't feel like getting into it very deep right now, so just reply with all the mistakes you see with my post. I guess I will have to post again later.
Orald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2002, 07:12 AM   #6
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,650
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Tolkien

Quote:
The thing is, he didn't write about it very much. Maybe he didn't think it was important aspect of the stories. Also, his stories center around kings and warriors, a farming elf doesn't have any place in his works.
That is very true. The only glimpse that we have of elves outside of the circles of power or warfare are the raft-elves in the Hobbit. (That job must have gotten very boring after a few thousand years. I wonder if there was some sort of work rotation system among the elves, to make sure that the essential jobs were done but that nobody got bored from doing it for eternity.)

Since lembas is described as a wafer, I think that we can also assume that they grew grains of some sort.

Quote:
So I submit that Elves had a truly advanced form of agriculture where only a few had to work and they could exploit very little land and still have a bountiful harvest able to feed all the Elves of the given kingdom, along with supplemental food from hunting and gathering and any domestication of animals.
It could also be that since Elves had a special relationship with living and growing things they did not need to expend too much energy farming.
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2002, 10:23 AM   #7
Raefindel
Sword of the Spirit
 
Raefindel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Washington State
Posts: 1,325
Raefindel has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Raefindel
Sting

As for the question of whether the Elves had agriculture, did not Galadriel give Sam a box of soil from her orchard?
__________________
Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1
Raefindel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2002, 10:58 AM   #8
Nufaciel
Wight
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 133
Nufaciel has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

This is from Morgoth's Ring:

Quote:
As for other matters, we may speak of the customs of the Noldor (of whom most is known in Middle-earth). Among the Noldor it may be seen that the making of bread is done mostly by women; and the making of the lembas is by ancient law reserved to them. Yet the cooking and preparing of other food is generally a task and pleasure of men. The nissi are more often skilled in the tending of fields and gardens, in playing upon instruments of music, and in the spinning, weaving, fashioning, and adornment of all threads and cloths; and in matters of lore they love most the histories of the Eldar and of the houses of the Noldor; and all matters of kinship and descent are held by them in memory. But the neri are more skilled as smiths and wrights, as carvers of wood and stone, and as jewellers. It is they for the most part who compose musics and make the instruments, or devise new ones; they are the chief poets and students of languages and the inventors of words. Many of them delight in forestry and in the lore of the wild, seeking the friendship of all things that grow or live there in freedom. But all these things, and other matters of labour and play, or of deeper knowledge concerning being and the life of theWorld, may at different times be pursued by any among the Noldor, be they neri or nissi.
This shows that there was gardens and fields that were tended by them.

Quote:
And the Eldar deemed that the dealing of death, even when lawful or under necessity, diminished the power of healing, and that the virtue of the nissi in this matter was due rather to their abstaining from hunting or war than to any special power that went with their womanhood. Indeed in dire straits or desperate defence, the nissi fought valiantly, and there was less difference in strength and speed between elven-men and elven-women that had not borne child than is seen among mortals. On other hand many elven-men were great healers and skilled in the lore of living bodies, though such men abstained from hunting, and went not to war until the last need.
This shows that Elven men did hunt, though those that were healers usually did not, as it would take away from their power as healers.
__________________
Member of Pervy Elf Fanciers Anonymous...I need professional help.
Nufaciel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2002, 11:18 AM   #9
Nufaciel
Wight
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 133
Nufaciel has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

In the Hobbit:

Quote:
The smell of roast meats was so enchanting that, without waiting to consult one another...
Quote:
Companies of the Wood-elves, sometimes with the king at their head, would from time to time ride out to hunt, or to other business in the woods...
From Lord of the Rings:
Quote:
Pippin afterwards recalled little of either food or drink,....But he remembered that there was bread, surpassing the savour of a fair white loaf to one who is starving; and fruits sweet as wildberries and richer than the tended fruits of gardens; he drained a cup that was filled with a fragrant draught, cool as a clear fountain, golden as a summer afternoon.
These are the only quotes I could find in a short time. I hope these help you with your question.
__________________
Member of Pervy Elf Fanciers Anonymous...I need professional help.
Nufaciel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2002, 11:22 AM   #10
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,650
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Thumbs up

They certainly do. Thank you very much to you and Raefindel. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2002, 03:03 PM   #11
twinkle
Animated Skeleton
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: my little blooming garden
Posts: 45
twinkle has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

well this is from the silmarillion....of the coming of men into the west....in regard to hunting....
Quote:
Now the Green-elves of Ossiriand were troubled by the coming of Men, and when they heard that a lord of the Eldar from over the Sea was among them they sent messengers to Felagund. 'Lord,' they said, 'if you have power over these newcomers, bid them return by the ways that they came, or else to go forward. For we desire no strangers in this land to break the peace in which we live. And these folk are hewers of trees and hunters of beasts; therefore we are their unfriends, and if they will not depart we shall afflict them in all ways that we can.'
perhaps there were were some factions of elves that frowned upon hunting where others did not? or maybe hunting wasn't a custom until later years?

twinkle

[ May 20, 2002: Message edited by: twinkle ]
__________________
“For if joyful is the fountain that rises in the sun, its springs are in the wells of sorrow unfathomable at the foundations of the Earth.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Silmarillion
twinkle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2002, 03:50 PM   #12
QuickSlash
Wight
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Not here.
Posts: 121
QuickSlash has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to QuickSlash Send a message via Yahoo to QuickSlash
Sting

Thank you all for this. It's very helpful. I have trouble remembering such things.
__________________
We're here and now, but will we ever be again? / 'Cause I have found / All that shimmers in this world is sure to fade, away, again. -Shimmer, Fuel
QuickSlash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2002, 05:55 PM   #13
Lomelinde
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Ha! Wouldn't you like to know?
Posts: 80
Lomelinde has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

Most elves weren't vegetarians, as most of the quotes above prove, but there was a small faction of elves called the Green Elves, or Laiquendi, that were. I don't know what happened to them. They may have been eventually assimilated into the other Elven cultures or simply died out. They shunned the killing of other living creatures, hence the nature of the quote that Twinkle posted earlier.
__________________
The Dwarf breathes so loud I could've shot him in the dark, drunk, blindfolded and hanging upside down from a tree.
Lomelinde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2002, 09:44 PM   #14
Raefindel
Sword of the Spirit
 
Raefindel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Washington State
Posts: 1,325
Raefindel has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Raefindel
Sting

That sounds kinda silly to me, because if you think about it, even vegetarians , though they don't shed blood,kill to eat.
__________________
Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1
Raefindel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2002, 11:35 PM   #15
Kalimac
Candle of the Marshes
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Flyover Country
Posts: 780
Kalimac has just left Hobbiton.
1420!

Very nice quotes, Rae [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]. For some reason I always think of the Elves as drinking ambrosia even though I know that's a completely different mythology. Still, miruvor isn't so very far away from ambrosia, is it?
__________________
Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet
Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.
Kalimac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2002, 08:21 PM   #16
Nevfeniel
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mithlond
Posts: 783
Nevfeniel has just left Hobbiton.
Eye

I'm an elf, and I like Pop Tarts! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Sorry, I couldn't resist! (please don't kill me!)

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Nevfeniel ]
__________________
Consider the purr a variety of audible tranquilizer. [. . .] For a few of us, there is one more purr, a secret purr. When we combine our secret purrs, we produce the Purr of Power. And that is simply the amplified amity we feel as furred and purred beings.
Nevfeniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2002, 09:11 PM   #17
Elrian
Eldar Spirit of Truth
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE
Posts: 794
Elrian has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Ahh, your already dead [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] Elven pop tarts sound good to me! Elves had to have agriculture, since Glorfindal took an army of 10,000 out of Rivendell for the Battle of Fornost, they couldn't forage for that many plus their families. They must have had livestock as well since dried meats were used for journey's. Lembas were made in Lorien, not in Rivendell.

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Elrian ]
__________________
*~*Call me a relic, call me what you will.
Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill.
That old whine ain't got no soul.
I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.*~*
Elrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:13 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.