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Old 12-17-2006, 05:25 PM   #1
The Might
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Mouth of Sauron's helmet insciptions

Does anyone know what those strange markings on his helmet mean?
I have looked on the net, but was only able to find partially decifred answers...maybe someone here knows it.
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Old 12-18-2006, 08:14 AM   #2
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They do, in fact, mean somthing. Because on the behind the scenes they were showing the alphabet used to put Mordor markings onto Grond. I'm sure they used the same thing on this guy's helmet... I'll look into it.

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Old 12-18-2006, 10:59 AM   #3
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Last time I heard they were not only runes of black sorcery but also a kind of pact that the Mouth had made with Sauron to serve only him and to speak his will. Hope that is helpful.
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Old 12-18-2006, 05:09 PM   #4
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Yes, I think I read somewhere as well that the inscription has something to do with Sauron, but I wasn't sure what exactly.
All I know so far is that he has the words "LAMMEN GORTHAUR" (Sindarin for "Voice of The Abhorred Dread") written on his helmet.
But as far as I know, there was a lot more written on it, also a type of poem perhaps...
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Old 12-19-2006, 06:50 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Might
Yes, I think I read somewhere as well that the inscription has something to do with Sauron, but I wasn't sure what exactly.
All I know so far is that he has the words "LAMMEN GORTHAUR" (Sindarin for "Voice of The Abhorred Dread") written on his helmet.
But as far as I know, there was a lot more written on it, also a type of poem perhaps...
LAMMEN GORTHAUR=Voice of The Abhorred Dread= Voice of Sauron. So the inscription is really a name tag so that the Witch King or some other creature won't pick the wrong helmet (Gorthaur was one name for Sauron during the first age. Captain Obvious?)

I've never thought of this inscription myself. Is it possible to post a picture of it here?
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Old 12-19-2006, 07:38 AM   #6
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In this gruesome close up of the Mouth's helm, we clearly see these "runes" that are inscripted on his helm. Just responding to a request for a pic.

Once again, I truly believe that these words formed his pact with the Sauron, to serve him and only him. They were words of darkness that bound the Mouth of Sauron to his evil duty, and which banished him from the light. And the cuts by his mouth also I think represent his undying loyalty to his master, and his will to speak his master's words.
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Old 12-19-2006, 11:41 AM   #7
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I looked at that picture above... and i see Angerthas runes. Apparently it's in a different language cause i memorized those runes and it's all jibberish in "our tongue".
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Old 12-19-2006, 11:54 AM   #8
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I doubt that might help anyway, since I believe they have used the few words in Black Speech that are known to create a language they could use in the movies.
And another interesting thing I remembered.
Remember the scene in the movies where Sam falls from the rock near the Black Gate and Frodo comes to his rescue when they both hide underneath the Elvish cloak from 2 nasty Haradrim soldiers? I just remembered those 2 soldiers have some inscriptions on their helmets as well
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Old 12-19-2006, 02:13 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Might
I doubt that might help anyway, since I believe they have used the few words in Black Speech that are known to create a language they could use in the movies.
And another interesting thing I remembered.
Remember the scene in the movies where Sam falls from the rock near the Black Gate and Frodo comes to his rescue when they both hide underneath the Elvish cloak from 2 nasty Haradrim soldiers? I just remembered those 2 soldiers have some inscriptions on their helmets as well
Really? I will definitely look into this!
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Old 12-19-2006, 04:39 PM   #10
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yep, checked it again and they do have inscriptions as well
you can see them pretty good right after Sam and Frodo look at their feet from underneath the cloak.
However it only lasts 1 or 2 seconds, and it's not very easy to make out exactly what kind of runes they are or what they mean...
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Old 12-21-2006, 11:04 AM   #11
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I've noticed that. I have an Easterling Action figure... i'll dig him out and examine for runes. I'll report back here.
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Old 12-27-2006, 03:50 PM   #12
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Heard this on a commentary track
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There's incantations of Black Speech etched into the metal around [The Mouth's] mouth and the idea being that it enhances the evil that he speaks.
That's Richard Taylor, one of the big bosses at WETA, I think. Ninja91's theory is much more interesting to me, but I'm still trying to find out what those runes actually say.
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Old 01-28-2007, 01:57 PM   #13
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I'm sorry I guess the Mouth of Sauron is in the extended edition not the origianl cause I can't remember him there
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Old 01-28-2007, 02:05 PM   #14
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Yes, he's only in the extended version...
Also, very interesting there are more such places with runes then I thought
I saw a page where some fans were trying to translate what is said on the walls of the Chamber of Mazarbul...
I remember one of the things they translated was "filmed in New-Zeeland"...lol
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:37 PM   #15
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The writing reads:
"I am the Mouth of Sauron, Hear him speak"
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Old 03-21-2007, 01:22 PM   #16
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I'm pretty sure there is more to that Celegost, though that could well be...
Has anyone found a site where this has been more accurately analysed?
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Old 03-24-2007, 09:28 AM   #17
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I read it in the "lord of the rings: weapons and warfare" which is an official companion to the film, so I'm pretty sure it's right.....
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Old 03-25-2007, 10:33 AM   #18
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Well, possibly, but I am 100% certain there was more than that

Look HERE for example, an attempt to translate the runes clearly shows there was more there

Also, if you scroll down the page you'll come across an interesting attempt to translate the runes on Grond
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Old 03-31-2007, 11:10 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninja91
In this gruesome close up of the Mouth's helm, we clearly see these "runes" that are inscripted on his helm. Just responding to a request for a pic.

though i hate to stray off topic, was the Mouth blind? in that picture that ninja91 put out(and many other places i have seen) his helmet stretches over his eyes. i seem to recall tolkien saying something about the mouth looking about after Aragorn and the others werent fooled by frodo's mail. was this possible lack of sight just Jackson's idea, or did tolkien really write something about this... just how lofty was his helm?
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Old 04-01-2007, 03:44 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Halsar
though i hate to stray off topic, was the Mouth blind? in that picture that ninja91 put out(and many other places i have seen) his helmet stretches over his eyes. i seem to recall tolkien saying something about the mouth looking about after Aragorn and the others werent fooled by frodo's mail. was this possible lack of sight just Jackson's idea, or did tolkien really write something about this... just how lofty was his helm?
I think the point of the Mouth not being able to see was just that - by then he was just a Mouth. At that point he had become so consumed by his role as communication for Sauron that he had lost all other purpose in the world and as such he could only be what Saron needed him to be.
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Old 04-01-2007, 01:21 PM   #21
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Terrible. In the books it states that he looks at those who have come to speak with him. It was a decent helmet but let me put it like this: I'm glad that they didn't include him in the theatrical version
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Old 04-01-2007, 04:26 PM   #22
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In the books, it is made clear the helmet did not cover his eyes, as when Aragorn looked directly into his eyes, the Mouth of Sauron was really afraid.
So this is no idea of Tolkien's, just another PJ invention. The idea is that he could see with the help of dark magic, and so didn't need normal sight anymore. I think it makes pretty little sense, as the Mouth was after all only a Black Numenorean.
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Old 04-01-2007, 06:43 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Might
The idea is that he could see with the help of dark magic, and so didn't need normal sight anymore. I think it makes pretty little sense, as the Mouth was after all only a Black Numenorean.
Well, Sauron did teach this Black Numenorean evil sorcery, so who really knows what he was capable of?

And I am talking about the Mouth of Sauron in the books, so dont bring up his filmed decapitation!
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:44 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninja91
Well, Sauron did teach this Black Numenorean evil sorcery, so who really knows what he was capable of?

And I am talking about the Mouth of Sauron in the books, so dont bring up his filmed decapitation!

True. Someone with such an influence over them (especially one as strong as Sauron's) would definateley have learned something of the sort.
but i do wonder what Tolkien's idea of the Mouth's helmet was?
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Old 04-02-2007, 07:13 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Lord Halsar
True. Someone with such an influence over them (especially one as strong as Sauron's) would definateley have learned something of the sort.
but i do wonder what Tolkien's idea of the Mouth's helmet was?
I dont know how much this answers your question, but in many older illustrations the Mouth of Sauron is indeed wearing a helm, but with a visor-thing on it so he could see.

Or did he wear anything at all? Possibly he painted his face black along with evil sorcerous runes?
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Old 04-03-2007, 12:42 PM   #26
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I know that the movie Mouth of Sauron didn't really fit Sauron's description him but I get such a kick out of the character in both the movie and the books. I think that that PJ made him blind to emphasize the contradiction of his character. He takes himself sooooo seriously and yet he really is nothing more than a mouth.

Another interesting thing is that although the movie Mouth does not have eyes, he recognizes Aragron and Gandalf immediately. So in a sense he still does have that moment of intense eye contact with Aragorn but it is in a much more figurative way. He seems to be searching Aragorn's very soul; searching for a weakness that he could use to his advantage.

Creepy *shudders* The character in the books is much more intense. I found the movie character to be - forgive me - funny
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