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Old 05-25-2002, 07:35 AM   #1
Mordalion
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Tolkien Why does everyone descriminate against people who use there imagination?

Why does everyone descriminate against people who use there imagination? People believe themselves to be hobbits or Elves, Dwarves or Ents. Why do people make fun of them?? I use my imagination to think i am an elf, well.... half elf half hobbit half balrog.... some here say "Thats immposible" so? If i want to, i can be an elf. Was it immosible to walk on the moon??? It was, but not anymore. I say that who ever believes that the aren't humn, can beleive that with out being riddiculed here.
The End... muhhahahhaahhahaa...
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Old 05-25-2002, 07:48 AM   #2
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You're right, you can't refuse someone to think like a hobbit, elf or so.

I think personally, let wel personally, that if you feel like an elf, that 'elf' is only a discription of the way you feel, and if it was called mummelwummel, than you would be a mummelwummel.

You can't change someones mind about that, and if it could, then I didn't want to live in this World, sometimes I don't want to anyway, with the mess we're making of everything, but that was not the question.

Conclusion: Whatever you are, you are feeling or think you are, that has to be respected.

Mmmm, maybe that's a good one to put in my signature.
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Old 05-25-2002, 08:12 AM   #3
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I think it's a way of interpretation. In another thread someone called herself 'a real elf' and I reacted quite harsh (which I didn't even notice at that time for if I did I wouldn't have reacted in that way).

I think you are right, Veritas. In the same thread I later said:

I believe that this feeling, believing that you are an elf, hobbit or anything, is the believe or imagination of one's self.

I agree with you!

greetings,
lathspell
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Old 05-25-2002, 08:20 AM   #4
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Without imagination we are just survival machines, worse than orcs, worse than anything.
In Michael Ende's book "The Neverending Story", the theme is about just that. If there is no imagination, there is the "nothing".
We need a reason to be alive, otherwise there is no point. Imagination can supply a reason, though we still need to act upon it to make it meaningfull.
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Old 05-25-2002, 09:39 AM   #5
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As you go on and on in life, more and more people will want to put you in a box and define you based upon the outer labels that you carry--your religion, your physical appearance, your occupation and wealth, your class, your nationality, etc. etc. Imagination scares people because it can't be put in a box so easily; the old labels just don't fit.

But if you have imagination, you can break through those boxes and make your own definition, one that is much closer to the feelings in your soul. So, go ahead and be an Elf, or whatever. Even if you decide someday you're not an Elf, or you get busy with other things and forget to be an Elf, a piece of that will still be with you in your everyday life.

The hobbit in me comes and goes, according to where I am in life and what my goals and dreams are at a particular point, but she's always there, ready to be taken out again.

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

[ May 25, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]
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Old 05-25-2002, 01:16 PM   #6
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Well said, Child.

I think also by imagining one's self in different guises, a person can begin to create their own mythology, can begin to understand where they come from and where they might intend to go. In a lifetime, a person necessarily plays many roles and each of the roles can be explored more fully by fleshing out a character who embodies the traits of those roles. A richer tapestry can be woven of one's life as these characters/personas weave in and out of the basic threads.
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Old 05-25-2002, 01:36 PM   #7
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For me, imagination is an essential part of everyday life. I don't always like what I have to face from day to day. People that have shut off their imaginations have shut off their personalities. People seem to grow into a standard and they don't vary themselves too much.
Imagination is not totally lost, though. Actors make a living by using their imaginations, and everyone else uses their imgination by watching actor's perform.
We are all well aware that Ian McKellen is not Gandalf, but we are willing to believe that he is so that we can be taken away from where and who we truly are for a few hours.
So, I think that people are just afraid to admit their true selves. I know that I hid myself for years, but now I don't care anymore. It's just about breaking your barriers and showing your true self to the world, but too many people are afraid to do that because they think to much about what other people will think - and then they criticize the people that actually do break the barrier because it gives them justification for not letting themselves shine through.
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Old 05-25-2002, 01:39 PM   #8
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Well said, Tigerlilly! And look at how rich this forum is with all the 'characters' on it!!
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Old 05-25-2002, 01:46 PM   #9
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Question

Kijo, does your post have to do with the fact that people say it's impossible for you to be a cat and have wing without feathers? Anyways, yeah, you could be an Elf, er, and half Balrog. (Though I don't see why an Elf would like a Balrog. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ) But the point is, you can use anything you want to describe yourself. For example, I'm a white Warg from Rivendell that's an Elf-friend and I am also a Jedi Master with a green lightsaber and can change at will into an Elf lord. Does that make sense? NOOOOOO. But that's how I put myself. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 05-25-2002, 02:30 PM   #10
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Well said, Tigerlily! I try much too hard to fit into people's expectations of me. How people know me depends on where I go. Most of you here know me as Aosama, the Wandering Star; at home I'm Tasha to my parents and Tashee to my sister; at school there is a person who only knows me for my IQ and therefore has dubbed me "smartchick". There is someone I am, when I'm alone and no one is there to define me. That person exists, I'm just still trying to find her right now. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Imagination makes me who I am. I would have perished long ago if I were not able to take myself away from people and be someone else who isn't bothered by humanity's problems and doesn't care what others think. Imagination is how I'm actually able to survive Middle School. Don't let anyone kill your imagination by saying that it isn't 'cool' or that it is 'impossible'; I consider it very lame that they feel they have to tear others down to feel any good about themselves. My opinion and my advice is: Don't ever let anyone tell you who you are. Only you know that. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ May 25, 2002: Message edited by: Aosama, the Wandering Star ]
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Old 05-25-2002, 03:23 PM   #11
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Kijo- Is your complaint against those who insist on you remaining true to Tolkien's books? If so I can understand that. Imagination is great, but Tolkien fans gather here primarily to enjoy and discuss his work. An elf and a balrog? Hmmm... well, if people challenge you on that based on the "facts" of Middle Earth, you can't really blame them. This is a Tolkien site after all, not simply a "fantasy" site.
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Old 05-25-2002, 03:37 PM   #12
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Silmaril

What would we be without imagination? And without imagination, we'd probably not have this site!! Tolkien had an imagination! He had a HUGE imagination! Without imagination, I would not be me. True, this is not an overall fantasy site, only for Lord of the Rings, but you can still debate a few things about the books, such as what happened after Elessar's death? That's where he left off, and that's where people can begin to imagine anything. Being an elf,hobbit, dwarf or man doesn't mean you have to be physically, but it means your heart is that of an elf, dwarf, hobbit or man. As Einstein once said, imagination is more important than knowledge. You know WHAT you are when you are born, but you have to find out WHO you are during your lifetime, or else you will never really live at all.

[ May 25, 2002: Message edited by: Ithaeliel ]
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Old 05-25-2002, 04:19 PM   #13
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Hell, I don't disciminate against the people who use their imagination. I just shoot to kill. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

All kidding aside, I know exactly how you feel, darling. I'm always imagining myself to be in Viggo Mortensen's arms, and people are always telling me to wake up, get real, and just date the losers that everyone else dates. Maybe our problems are slightly different, but I emphasize with your completely. Don't mind the people who lead colorless, flat lives, and want everyone else to do the same. If you want to be an Elf, a Balrog, an Elf/Balrog, or the love child of Sinead O'Connor and the Pope, go ahead! Your mind is your mind, and whatever goes on in there is your business, and no one has the right to ridicule you for it.
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Old 05-25-2002, 05:35 PM   #14
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You said it Lush! Except for me it would have to be Sean Bean but that's another story. Don't fall into the trap of letting people tell you what to do and criticizing you for being who you are. Be proud, let your imagination take you to those far off places, and if they don't like it, oh well!
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Old 05-25-2002, 10:36 PM   #15
Tigerlily Gamgee
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Silmaril

Quote:
Well said, Tigerlily!
Thank you. I just get really hyped up about topics like these because I have been through a lot and I have been able to see life through the eyes of many different "labels" in society. I have had many labels myself, many of which are not ones I would like to share (lets just say that kids are cruel). But after years and years of hiding who I really was I got sick of it, & now I have more friends than ever just because I am myself. People will like you for your strange little quirks & your imagination, not your ablility to be a norm in society. Stick out, it's fun!
By the way, I really like this statement
Quote:
You know WHAT you are when you are born, but you have to find out WHO you are during your lifetime, or else you will never really live at all.
Heck, I am still searching at the age of 22 & I will be for the rest of my life.
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Old 05-25-2002, 11:01 PM   #16
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I personally think imagination is the rekindeling of dreams long forgotten and doorwars to places where feet have never tread. Denying your imagination is a diservice to the world with all you have to offer, and especially yourself. I myself live much in a dreamworld, and consider myself an Elf. If others dislike me for that, they may. I know I love someone, someone loves me, and I'm fine with that and nothing else, and my mind and imagination.
Sorry if this sounds corny, it is, but it's just how I feel.
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Old 05-25-2002, 11:13 PM   #17
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The imagination is something that is God-given, and it changes as we grow. When we are children, we pretend we are Superman, or Robin Hood, (the women oppisites for girls), and no-one teases us. Until about 3rd Grade, then its immature.

I see that as untrue. I see nothing wrong with someone going around at any age pretending they are an Elf, a Hobbit, or Spiderman. The only where I would draw the line, is when you get to believe that you are one or them. Which could be considered partial to craziness. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

So why do people descriminate, they want to be a bully. Maybe they don't have anything in their life, like real friends, or a real life. Frankly I couldn't really tell you. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] There are a number of reasons.
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Old 05-26-2002, 06:10 PM   #18
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Edward Arlington Robinson has something to say here:

Quote:
Miniver loved the Medici,
Albeit he had never seen one;
He would have sinned incessantly
Could he have been one.

Miniver cursed the commonplace
And eyed a khaki suit with loathing;
He missed the mediaeval grace
Of iron clothing.
You are what you are, don't fool yourself or anyone else, or you will live a life full of regrets.

While it is ok to have an imagination, just make sure it is grounded in reality.

[ May 26, 2002: Message edited by: Durelen ]
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Old 05-26-2002, 07:56 PM   #19
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Quote: we pretend we are Superman, or Robin Hood, (the women oppisites for girls)
umm...
I'm a girl, and I still pretend I'm Robin Hood... is that bad? [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
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Old 05-26-2002, 08:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
You are what you are, don't fool yourself or anyone else, or you will live a life full of regrets.
What are your parameters for 'you are what you are'? - Does that include your imagined self? Or are you saying the imagined self is outside your real self - an extraneous thing you might acquire that is not central to your self?
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Old 05-26-2002, 09:04 PM   #21
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The only reason I can envision "living a life full of regret" is failing to take advantage of the opportunities that come along to you in real life--opportunities to make friends, oportunities to serve and be with your family, opportunities to get an education or find a job that has some meaning, and, yes, opportunities to use your imagination in any legitimate way you can to express yourself and your dreams.

Imagination will not leave you with a life of regret, unless you totally neglect friends, family, education, etc. I don't think anyone is advising that. But I firmly believe that, in the age we live in, more has been lost by neglecting the imagination than by failing to spend too much time on the practical necessities of life.

sharon, the 7th age hobbit
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Old 05-26-2002, 09:26 PM   #22
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This isn't a general discussion board. This is a forum for advanced discussions of Middle-earth. Go play with your blocks.
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Old 05-27-2002, 02:01 AM   #23
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Quote:
We are all well aware that Ian McKellen is not Gandalf
He isn't??????????

Quote:
I'm a girl, and I still pretend I'm Robin Hood... is that bad?
You're a girl??? You played the wargs in 'A Hobbit's Tale" in a manner in which I thought you were male. I don't think it's wierd for someone to imagine himself as the oppisite sex. Robin Hood is cool.
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Old 05-27-2002, 08:07 AM   #24
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imagination is what gives birth to all of the most popular trends and the worst fads. the only reason people ridacule you for your emagionation is because you use it in a way that they dont understand. if you used your emagination to create the next great RPG or tolkien style movie you would find people incouragend and comending you for your emagination.

(personaly I ran around the woods slashing at dead trees with stiks pretending I was a great warior fighting My way through vast armies of orcs and trolles. untill I was 14 years old. now I am to buisy to spare houers in the woods unles I am just on a walk, but I stoll loke to light candles with my lights out and pretend I am comgering great spells and rasing un-emagionable monsters..I whonder what goes through a wizards head wile he is casting spells?)

I also Like to pretend I can Spell. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]
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Old 05-27-2002, 11:51 AM   #25
Gimli Son Of Gloin
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I did something to that effect. I would always run on walls and only jump on certain slabs of cement and stuff pretending that I was in Moria. As a matter of fact sometimes I still do *sulks embarrasingly*
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Old 05-27-2002, 12:57 PM   #26
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Silmaril

Gimli - no need to be embarrassed or sulky! I'm willing to bet that on some level everyone here has and will act out hings from their imagination, or the more reserved and shy (like me) will think/act things in their head in public, but may well put actions to it in privacy. not that i'm pointing the finger - it would embarrasse some people, maybe others never have. but i can't believe we're the only 2 people in the world that do it [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
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Old 05-27-2002, 01:25 PM   #27
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a great imagination is a wonderful thing, but hopefully at least some agree there is a time and place for everything....
or do some of you elves point out to prospective employers just whom exactly they may be hiring in job-interviews? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
there is a nice corner of this site devoted to such imagination....it's called RPG...
for those that like it more interactive there are a lot of RPG rooms to visit.....
i personally don't like to wade through a lot of foxbarking or kinslayings on the barrowdowns chat...i believe that room was primarily designed for ongoing discussions of ME....
there's already enough nonsense going on there as is....so while i can appreciate an active imagination, i prefer to not have it forced down my throat when i visit a place designed for other things....

twinkle
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Old 05-27-2002, 04:32 PM   #28
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Silmaril

Well, since me, little miss nosy, has to get her two cents in everything, even if it was already said, I'll reply to this!

Well: I think that imagining one is an Elf on here (as I do: Menelduliniel at your service) is perfectly fine. As long as you can separate reality from fantasy (now: whether you live in the reality or the fantasy is a different thing: as long as you can differentiate). I admit: I quite frequently live in fantasy (as a defense mechanism of sorts against the outside world) instead of reality, but...I know the difference.

I think that one can use one's imagination in any form they want, as long as, somewhere, they realize the difference between reality and fantasy (at least in this plane).
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Old 05-28-2002, 11:27 PM   #29
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Thumbs up

Durelen, to that I will add (my favorite verses):

Quote:
Miniver sighed from what was not,
And dreamed, and rested from his labors;
He dreamed of Thebes and Camelot.
And Priam's neighbors.
..........
Miniver Cheevy, born too late,
Scratched his head and kept on thinking;
Miniver coughed and called it fate,
And kept on drinking.
If that doesn't capture the mood of this thread, I don't know what does.
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Old 05-28-2002, 11:48 PM   #30
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I completly agree on this one, when we were younger, we imagined all sorts of things, that was our form of entertainment. Now that we're older, why is it so wrong that we have our own fantasy's every now and then? Why can't we pretend that we'e off on an adventure, having the time of our lives?
I think its because people want you to focus your attention on the real world, they don't want you day dreaming or having your "head in the clouds" so to say.
Maybe some people consider it immature as well, kindof, childish, I guess.
I don't know, pretending that you are someone or somthing else is perfectly logical in my mind, it lets us escape the turmoils of everyday life.
Thats just my little say so in this.
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Old 05-29-2002, 09:41 AM   #31
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Not rating my own facility, in many things, but in this situation, to encourage you, I shall borrow the words of others:

To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.


~ William Blake

Consolation from imaginary things is not an imaginary consolation. ~ Roger Scruton

Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things that escape those who dream only at night. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

"I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." ~ Albert Einstein

Remember also Rimbaud:
Life is the farce which everyone has to perform.

Do not be undult worried by those of a stolid personality. The world is not for them to enjoy. Yet temper your fancies when circumstances demand; tailor your whims to fit the cut of some passing hours, for those who have their heads in the clouds cause fear, for they are very tall.
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Old 05-29-2002, 11:43 AM   #32
piosenniel
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Perhaps this discussion should be moved to Novices and Newcomers?

It's an interesting discussion, but I don't think it belongs in this section.
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Old 05-29-2002, 12:21 PM   #33
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I think it's nice to pretend that middle earth really exists, and that you're an elf etc (I do it often enough). I honestly don't see a problem with it. Middle Earth sounds like such a beautiful place, somewhere you could just forget about everything and be yourself. I would absolutely love it if ME really existed and I was really an elf (unfortunately, i know that this isn't true, and will never happen...) but as i'm writing this i'm looking out my window at a gorgeous day, i see trees, and i can imagine I'm in Lothlorien or somewhere like that and it's amazing.

I'm not really sure what i'm driving at here, but it's a good thing!

Imagination is healthy, and whether you're 5, 15, or 30 it can give you so much inspiration and enjoyment.
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Old 05-31-2002, 09:34 PM   #34
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Everyone well met I say!! I neve leave my imagination, it is my most precious possession. If I were ever denied my imagination I would die. I AM A HOBBIT, and i'm sick of being teased [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] . I just wnat to cry sometimes i'm that teased an misunderstood.

Well said Tigerlily
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Old 06-01-2002, 10:02 PM   #35
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I think that it's great that people use their imagination. It's what makes us appreciate a world like ME. The problem is that the world is filled with closed minded people who discriminate other because of their imagination, age ,sex, religion, etc.
Truly sad and sorry.
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Old 06-06-2002, 04:14 PM   #36
Aiwyn of the Eorlingas
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Wonderful. I love it. Some people who I can sympathize with, and vice-versa.
Without my imagination, my life would be pointless. I would never be an Elven huntress stalking wild game in the woods, or a woman gaining the trust of the wildest of horses, or a water nymph gathering pearls from the deep blue to make a trifle of a neclace, or even an evil sorceress set on world domination. I would just be myself: a normal teenager with nothing to do but gossip and swoon over guys: neither of which I have time to do, what with all that horse-taming and world domination and such. When I am angry, my characters in my imagination feel the brunt of my wrath. When I'm happy, they get a special treat, usually in the form of the withdrawl of those ogres I set on them when I was mad [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]. When I'm sad, they cry with me. Not for me:with me. If I didn't have my imagination to take these emotions out on, how would I vent them? Beat up a PILLOW? I think we can ALL be a little more creative than a PILLOW.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a rebellion to conquer under my all-mighty heel... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
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Old 06-06-2002, 08:57 PM   #37
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imagination is the very essecnce of my life. there would be absolutly no point to existing if we had no imagination.the sad thing is, people like us, who are mor imaginitive than others, are often ridiculed(for me, its mainly my mom). but we all do remain a little hold on our imaginations. if i was to blaze out in all my terrifying imagination, even you people here, who are like-minded beings, would pack me off to the looneybin. even my friends Rosseil and Naurlothwen, have no idea how crazy i am. we all hide a little bit of our imagination, because otherwise, we would all be in a hospital with padded walls.
if you feel like an elf or a dwarf or a hobbit or whatever, then belive it. the only thing we have these days are our beliefs.
i often loose touch with reality, and i quite like it, thankyouverymuch. unfortunatly, sanity requires i come back to this day and age.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Albert Einstien.
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Old 09-24-2002, 02:26 PM   #38
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I think that people who don't like others with imagination are just jealuos, b/c they don't know how to have an imagination so they act all bitter about it. Then we get stuck with their bitterness. I think you just need to teach a person how to have an imagination and then if it works it works and if it doesn't then their brains aren't capable of percieving imagination. I believe that having an imagination means you are intelligent b/c you either read a lot or you arent ofraid of new things. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 09-24-2002, 02:41 PM   #39
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Quote:
Was it immosible to walk on the moon???
acually, the government shot the moonlandings at area 51. or so the rumor says...
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Old 09-24-2002, 02:44 PM   #40
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I don't think it should be called discrimination, every body has their own thoughts. I mean if you're a realistic kind of person, you tend to get angered when people pretend or use their imagination. BUt of-course you are right! I mean if you feel like an elf, or a hobbit or whatever, people should not mind. Like it would be different if you were calling thema balrog! that would give them a reason to be harsh. To my point, its a free country and you can be who you want to be, or what you want to be! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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