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Old 01-19-2004, 11:12 PM   #1
QN_VICTORIA
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Sting How did Arwen see it......

Well in ROTK...how did Arwen see the vision of her son, does she also have the gift of fore-sight.. Are each of the elvens inserted with special different powers? If so, what was Arwens? [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]
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Old 01-20-2004, 02:43 AM   #2
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Victoria, I would not believe too much from the movies, if I were you. I can't remember having read anything like that scene in the books.
As a matter of fact, much of the Arwen and Elrond related stuff from the movies are made up by PJ or by the script writers.
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Old 01-20-2004, 03:29 AM   #3
Estelyn Telcontar
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Most of what we know about Arwen (Tolkien's Arwen, that is - not Peter Jackson's) comes from Appendix A, The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen. It's definitely worth reading if you're interested in their story - one of my favorite passages (and the source for my forum nick [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ). We read that she apparently had some 'psychic' Elven abilities; at her first meeting with Aragorn, she predicted that her fate might be like that of Lthien. Later, as Aragorn's betrothed, we are told:
Quote:
...when Aragorn was abroad, from afar she watched over him in thought...
Since we read of other Elves being able to communicate telepathically, this was nothing unusual. As to the gift of foresight, not only Elves, some humans, especially the Nmenreans, also had it.
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Old 01-20-2004, 06:48 PM   #4
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Anyone heard of other elves predicting things besides Elrond, Arwen, and Galadirel? I am sure there are some, but who?
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Old 01-21-2004, 06:18 PM   #5
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Sting

No, that didn`t happen in the book. Though it did make a pretty good scene, didn`t it?
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Anyone heard of other elves predicting things besides Elrond, Arwen, and Galadirel? I am sure there are some, but who?
I suspect Gil-galad and Cirdan could, and I bet all of the Valar could.
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Old 01-21-2004, 09:40 PM   #6
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Yea it did,.. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 01-22-2004, 06:20 AM   #7
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Couldnt the lost seeing stones also see through time aswell as space??
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Old 01-22-2004, 12:07 PM   #8
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Sting

The Palantiri could only transmit images and the thoughts of the other viewer (and then only with his approval).

All Elven mothers had the ability to, to a certain degree, to see the future of their children; therefore the name that a mother chose for her child was considered important, because it had significance to what the child would become.
This does not go for unborn or would-be children though, so there is no chance Arwen can see her future son in my opinion.

The Valar definately used telepathy (they did not have a language of their own and used Quenya when speaking with Elves) but I am unsure if this was a possiblity possessed by Elves.
Estelyn, which Elves would you say had the power of telepathy? I assume Galadriel had to a certain extent, but I believe that was rather Nenya than any innate power that she possessed.
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Old 01-22-2004, 02:43 PM   #9
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Here's the passage from RotK, Chapter 'Many Partings', that tells about it:
Quote:
Celeborn and Galadriel... had much to speak of with Elrond and with Gandalf...
Often long after the hobbits were wrapped in sleep they would sit together under the stars, recalling the ages that were gone and all their joys and labours in the world, or holding council, concerning the days to come. If any wanderer had chanced to pass, little would he have seen or heard, and it would have seemed to him only that he saw grey figures, carved in stone, memorials of forgotten things now lost in unpeopled lands. For they did not move or speak with mouth, looking from mind to mind; and only their shining eyes stirred and kindled as their thoughts went to and fro.
According to this passage, Celeborn, Galadriel, Elrond and Gandalf were able to communicate telepathically - and Celeborn was not a Ring-bearer, so the ability was not limited to the Ring-bearers or caused by the rings.

Tolkien called this concept "Osanwe" and wrote about it in the publication "Osanwe-kenta". For those who would like to read more, I recommend the thread A review: JRRT's Osanwe-Kenta.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 3:43 PM January 22, 2004: Message edited by: Estelyn Telcontar ]
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Old 01-22-2004, 03:08 PM   #10
The Squatter of Amon Rdh
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Pipe Prophecies

The example of Elven prophecy that springs immediately to my mind is from the appendices to The Lord of the Rings:
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'Then the Witch-king laughed, and none that heard it ever forgot the horror of that cry. But Glorfindel rode up then on his white horse, and in the midst of his laughter the Witch-king turned to flight and passed into the shadows. For night came down upon the battlefield, and he was lost, and none saw whither he went.
'Ernur now rode back, but Glorfindel, looking into the gathering dark, said:
"Do not pursue him! He will not return to this land. Far off yet is his doom, and not by the hand of man will he fall." These words many remembered; but Ernur was angry, desiring only to be avenged for his disgrace.

Appendix A (iv): Gondor and the Heirs of Anrion
There are numerous other examples; but this one serves to draw us still farther away from the more misleading aspects of the films.
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Old 01-23-2004, 08:46 AM   #11
Daniel Telcontar
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Sting

Thanks Estelyn! I have been wondering about this and am glad to find some info about it. But I guess it is mostly limited to those Elves who have powerful spirits; perhaps that link you provided will shed light on that.

Oh, and yeah Squatter, had forgotten about Glorfindel.
Also we have from Arthedain Malbeth the Seer, who appears to be a somewhat unique prophet in Middle-earth.
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