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Old 08-08-2022, 02:00 PM   #3921
Huinesoron
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Huinesoron is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Huinesoron is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
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Originally Posted by Urwen View Post
The choice is mine:
The victor who failed, -
???
The line that failed, -
Line of Isildur
Or the law that failed. -
Aldarion's law, possibly
Which?
Those are the literal meanings of the lines, yes.

hS
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Old 08-08-2022, 03:13 PM   #3922
Urwen
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Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Then the victor line is literal too, and so the 'victor' is Romendacil/Hyarmendacil
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Last edited by Urwen; 08-08-2022 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 08-08-2022, 03:28 PM   #3923
Huinesoron
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Then the victor line is literal too, and so the 'victor' is Romendacil/Hyarmendacil
Nope, not a -dacil.

hS
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Old 08-08-2022, 03:33 PM   #3924
Urwen
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Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
I also considered Boromir, but he doesn't fit, not really.

But now I am intrigued...
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Last edited by Urwen; 08-08-2022 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 08-08-2022, 03:40 PM   #3925
Huinesoron
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I also considered Boromir, but he doesn't fit, not really.
No, he doesn't, but the line is indeed literal.

hS
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Old 08-08-2022, 04:08 PM   #3926
Galadriel55
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Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
If you are right about the line ans the law, Urwen, I wonder if this has anything to do with Arvedui's claim to the throne of Gondor via his wife. I am not sure who the victor would be in this scenario though.
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Old 08-08-2022, 04:42 PM   #3927
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If you are right about the line ans the law, Urwen, I wonder if this has anything to do with Arvedui's claim to the throne of Gondor via his wife. I am not sure who the victor would be in this scenario though.
This is good thinking.

hS
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Old 08-08-2022, 04:54 PM   #3928
Urwen
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I see it now. Pelendur is the answer. Explanation...

The choice is mine: - Pelendur's
The victor who failed, - Earnil
The line that failed, - Arvedui's claim
Or the law that failed. - Firiel's claim
Which? - And he chose the victor.
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Old 08-09-2022, 05:40 AM   #3929
Huinesoron
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I see it now. Pelendur is the answer. Explanation...

The choice is mine: - Pelendur's
The victor who failed, - Earnil
The line that failed, - Arvedui's claim
Or the law that failed. - Firiel's claim
Which? - And he chose the victor.
Correct! It's interesting that Tolkien never quite positions Firiel as a candidate for the throne - he uses her claim under Numenorean law as support for Arvedui's candidacy. Arvedui seems to be trying to claim the throne of Gondor jure uxoris ("by right of the wife"), which isn't something that ever happened elsewhere in Middle-earth. The closest precedent would be Pharazon, but he is specifically held to have usurped the Sceptre.

The second closest precedent is actually the reverse: Lalia the Great was head of the Took family for 22 years by something close to right of her husband, at least after his death. Somehow I don't think the Gondorians were using Shire-Hobbit inheritance rules though!

Anyway, I prefer to believe that Firiel was a candidate in her own right, and that the Gondorians suppressed mention of her afterwards. Sounds plausible.

Over to you!

hS
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Old 08-09-2022, 06:33 AM   #3930
Urwen
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Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
How about something simple again?

My marriage wasn't pleasant
But I'll let that slide
For my son and granddaughter
Had the law on their side

This one is inspired by Huey's, kind of.
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Old Yesterday, 08:14 AM   #3931
Huinesoron
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Huinesoron is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Huinesoron is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
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Originally Posted by Urwen View Post
How about something simple again?

My marriage wasn't pleasant
But I'll let that slide
For my son and granddaughter
Had the law on their side

This one is inspired by Huey's, kind of.
It took me a few runs at it, but is this Inzilbeth? She was married unwillingly to Ar-Gimilzor, despite being of the Faithful; but through her, Tar-Palantir and Tar-Miriel attempted to restore the faith of Numenor, despite both being challenged by weaker claimants to the sceptre.

hS
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Old Yesterday, 09:51 AM   #3932
Urwen
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Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
It took me a few runs at it, but is this Inzilbeth? She was married unwillingly to Ar-Gimilzor, despite being of the Faithful; but through her, Tar-Palantir and Tar-Miriel attempted to restore the faith of Numenor, despite both being challenged by weaker claimants to the sceptre.

hS

Yes.
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