Riddles in the Downs

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

The choice is mine:
The victor who failed, - ???
The line that failed, - Line of Isildur
Or the law that failed. - Aldarion's law, possibly
Which?

Those are the literal meanings of the lines, yes.

hS

[Urwen]

Then the victor line is literal too, and so the 'victor' is Romendacil/Hyarmendacil

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Then the victor line is literal too, and so the 'victor' is Romendacil/Hyarmendacil

Nope, not a -dacil.

hS

[Urwen]

I also considered Boromir, but he doesn't fit, not really.

But now I am intrigued...

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I also considered Boromir, but he doesn't fit, not really.

No, he doesn't, but the line is indeed literal.

hS

[Galadriel55]

If you are right about the line ans the law, Urwen, I wonder if this has anything to do with Arvedui's claim to the throne of Gondor via his wife. I am not sure who the victor would be in this scenario though.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

If you are right about the line ans the law, Urwen, I wonder if this has anything to do with Arvedui's claim to the throne of Gondor via his wife. I am not sure who the victor would be in this scenario though.

This is good thinking.

hS

[Urwen]

I see it now. Pelendur is the answer. Explanation...

The choice is mine: - Pelendur's
The victor who failed, - Earnil
The line that failed, - Arvedui's claim
Or the law that failed. - Firiel's claim
Which? - And he chose the victor.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I see it now. Pelendur is the answer. Explanation...

The choice is mine: - Pelendur's
The victor who failed, - Earnil
The line that failed, - Arvedui's claim
Or the law that failed. - Firiel's claim
Which? - And he chose the victor.

Correct! It's interesting that Tolkien never quite positions Firiel as a candidate for the throne - he uses her claim under Numenorean law as support for Arvedui's candidacy. Arvedui seems to be trying to claim the throne of Gondor jure uxoris ("by right of the wife"), which isn't something that ever happened elsewhere in Middle-earth. The closest precedent would be Pharazon, but he is specifically held to have usurped the Sceptre.

The second closest precedent is actually the reverse: Lalia the Great was head of the Took family for 22 years by something close to right of her husband, at least after his death. Somehow I don't think the Gondorians were using Shire-Hobbit inheritance rules though!

Anyway, I prefer to believe that Firiel was a candidate in her own right, and that the Gondorians suppressed mention of her afterwards. Sounds plausible.

Over to you!

hS

[Urwen]

How about something simple again?

My marriage wasn't pleasant
But I'll let that slide
For my son and granddaughter
Had the law on their side

This one is inspired by Huey's, kind of.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

How about something simple again?

My marriage wasn't pleasant
But I'll let that slide
For my son and granddaughter
Had the law on their side

This one is inspired by Huey's, kind of.

It took me a few runs at it, but is this Inzilbeth? She was married unwillingly to Ar-Gimilzor, despite being of the Faithful; but through her, Tar-Palantir and Tar-Miriel attempted to restore the faith of Numenor, despite both being challenged by weaker claimants to the sceptre.

hS

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

It took me a few runs at it, but is this Inzilbeth? She was married unwillingly to Ar-Gimilzor, despite being of the Faithful; but through her, Tar-Palantir and Tar-Miriel attempted to restore the faith of Numenor, despite both being challenged by weaker claimants to the sceptre.

hS

Yes.