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Old 07-30-2019, 04:18 AM   #3161
Urwen
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Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
I mean, look at the letters I've found yourself.


E, A, T
G, T, H
F, I, N,
C, B, N,


They don't spell any remotely coherent word
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench.

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Old 07-30-2019, 04:37 AM   #3162
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But if I use the usual names, then the letters don't match up to any five-letter word character name. >.>
The answer is not a character name.

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Originally Posted by Urwen View Post
I mean, look at the letters I've found yourself.

E, A, T
G, T, H
F, I, N,
C, B, N,

They don't spell any remotely coherent word
You have missed at least two letters for #1.
#2... oh, bother. Clue #2 is wrong, and should read 'and also his first'. Bother.
#3 you can narrow down by remembering that I said Celebrian also has the letter.
#4 you have correct.

It may interest you to know that the character for A is often not written down in Quenya-mode Tengwar. Thinking about why that might be may lead you to #5.

hS
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Old 07-30-2019, 04:45 AM   #3163
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I dunno why that might be. Also, which names did I miss for one. Varda is her common name, is that it?
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Old 07-30-2019, 05:49 AM   #3164
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I dunno why that might be. Also, which names did I miss for one. Varda is her common name, is that it?
It is indeed. (You also missed 'Gilthoniel', but Varda is definitely more common, if you happen to be Valinorean.)

hS
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Old 07-30-2019, 06:30 AM   #3165
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Is the riddle answer Voice?
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Old 07-30-2019, 06:49 AM   #3166
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Is the riddle answer Voice?
Correct! V for Varda, O is actually in Melkor as well (oops, sorry again!), I for Finrod, Finduilas, and Celebrian, C for Celeborn and Celebrian, and E is the most common letter in English; Quenya doesn't always write the As, because they're so common that you can basically assume they're there if nothing else is.

And of course, your voice is what you use to tell a riddle.

Which is what you can now do.

hS
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Old 07-30-2019, 07:03 AM   #3167
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A short, simple one:

Along the sea foam
In twilight I roam
My voice is strong
My lifespan is long
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Old 07-30-2019, 12:07 PM   #3168
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It really is easy....
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Old 07-30-2019, 01:59 PM   #3169
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Is it he who harps upon the far
forgotten beaches and dark shores
where western foam for ever roars,
Maglor whose voice is like the sea
?

hS
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Old 07-30-2019, 02:11 PM   #3170
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Indeed so. The twilight idea came from Pervinca's 'gloam'.
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Old 07-30-2019, 03:03 PM   #3171
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It was a nice one - at first I got tangled up thinking of sea-dwellers, rather than a coastal wanderer.

Okay, so let's go this way:

Take four coins, add another one or two,
A ruler born, a ruler made, a ruler over stream,
Visit York, Lancaster, take a horse and you
Will find in the end a helper's hopeful dream.




hS
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Old 07-30-2019, 03:42 PM   #3172
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It was a nice one - at first I got tangled up thinking of sea-dwellers, rather than a coastal wanderer.

hS

That was the intent.
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Old 07-30-2019, 11:38 PM   #3173
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I assume your riddle is another cryptic one.
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Old 07-31-2019, 12:24 AM   #3174
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I assume your riddle is another cryptic one.
You shouldn't; it's nothing like the last one.

hS
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Old 07-31-2019, 12:27 AM   #3175
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But it mentions York and Lancaster, meaning it is cryptic, at least in part.
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Old 07-31-2019, 12:48 AM   #3176
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But it mentions York and Lancaster, meaning it is cryptic, at least in part.
I guess?

hS
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Old 07-31-2019, 01:47 AM   #3177
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Rosie Cotton?
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Old 07-31-2019, 02:23 AM   #3178
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Rosie Cotton?
No.

The entire riddle is relevant, not just some of the words.

hS
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Old 07-31-2019, 02:34 AM   #3179
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The third line is Rose, though.
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Old 07-31-2019, 02:51 AM   #3180
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The third line is Rose, though.
No, it isn't.

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Old 07-31-2019, 03:32 AM   #3181
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Then I don't understand.
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Old 07-31-2019, 03:35 AM   #3182
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Although I'd say.....it's Sam.
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Old 07-31-2019, 04:17 AM   #3183
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It's not Sam.

Consider each line separately (ignore 'and you' at the end of 3, that's just the start of line 4). Try to come up with an answer that works for every line. Consider that I have included both cryptic portions pointing at the precise name, and thematic (I guess) pieces talking about characteristics of the answer.

hS
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Old 07-31-2019, 04:22 AM   #3184
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The answer is a ruler over stream?
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Old 07-31-2019, 06:56 AM   #3185
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The answer is a ruler over stream?
What, you've not heard of the Narrow Bridge of the Petty-Dwarves, marked every inch to allow them to determine the exact speed of their crossing? I think it's from HoME XIII: The Weird Bits.

No, the answer is not a ruler over a stream. Nor was Bilbo telling Gollum about a blue- and green-skinned couple comparing each other's eyes.

Here are some questions that might run through my head if I was seeing this riddle for the first time:

-What coin would you have four of? Why would you add one or two? One or two what?
-What's a ruler? How do you make a ruler? Why would you have three? Is the third one 'over stream' from the other two?
-What do York and Lancaster have in common? What's the connection to a horse?
-Who is the helper? Who or what did they hope for? Is the dream literal?
-Are there any elements in my answers to the above that string together to point at one person, place, or thing in Middle-earth?

hS
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Old 07-31-2019, 07:54 AM   #3186
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Well, you can have four quarters. The ruler is made by crowning them.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:34 AM   #3187
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Well, my first thoughts too were in the line of Brittish history: the War of the Roses and the Bonnie Prince Charlie uprising. Way to mess with a head.

In any case, the only two cents I have to offer is that York and Lancaster are both houses and cities. That plus the horse points to Rohan's royalty and/or cities.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:38 AM   #3188
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Well, you can have four quarters. The ruler is made by crowning them.
Both of these are true, but they're not the only true answers.

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Well, my first thoughts too were in the line of Brittish history: the War of the Roses and the Bonnie Prince Charlie uprising. Way to mess with a head.
Entirely deliberate, I assure you.

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In any case, the only two cents I have to offer is that York and Lancaster are both houses and cities.
They are, but they're also more than that.

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That plus the horse points to Rohan's royalty and/or cities.
Nope, not even close.

hS
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:42 AM   #3189
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Four coins is also a band.
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:59 AM   #3190
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Four coins is also a band.
Apparently so! That's not relevant, though.

Looking at them, and thinking about the time the Beatles nearly ended up cast in an LotR movie, I'm wondering which of them would play which hobbit...

hS
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Old 07-31-2019, 10:06 AM   #3191
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When we say ruler, are we referring to a king, queen etc. or a measuring tool?
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Old 07-31-2019, 10:08 AM   #3192
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And the way a ruler is born......reminds me of Macbeth, where the title character was overthrown by a man born via a caesarean section. (and Tolkien was inspired by this to create the Ents)
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Old 07-31-2019, 10:22 AM   #3193
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When we say ruler, are we referring to a king, queen etc. or a measuring tool?
No kings or queens, but definitely no measuring implements.

hS
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Old 07-31-2019, 11:00 AM   #3194
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Then what kind of ruler is it?
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Old 07-31-2019, 11:16 AM   #3195
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Then what kind of ruler is it?
That's for me to know and you to figure out.

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Old 07-31-2019, 11:29 AM   #3196
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President? Magistrate? Prime minister? Prince? Princess?
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Old 07-31-2019, 12:16 PM   #3197
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President? Magistrate? Prime minister? Prince? Princess?
Actually none of those either, which is pretty impressive.

hS
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Old 07-31-2019, 12:30 PM   #3198
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They are, but they're also more than that.
What, places with incomprehensible accents?

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Actually none of those either, which is pretty impressive.

hS
Ah, clearly the Master of Laketown.
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Old 07-31-2019, 12:38 PM   #3199
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What, places with incomprehensible accents?
^_^ If it helps, I was going to say York and Gloucester before the Lancaster misdirect occurred to me.

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Ah, clearly the Master of Laketown.
Nope!

But thinking through titles of rulers/leaders in Middle-earth is probably the way to go.

All right, another hint: the three rulers are concurrent, not consecutive.

hS
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Old 07-31-2019, 01:36 PM   #3200
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Celegorm, Curufin and Orodreth came to mind. They were all ruling Nargothrond at the same time
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