The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-29-2002, 02:12 PM   #1
Maiden of Tears
*Varda*'s Avatar
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Valinor.
Posts: 572
*Varda* has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via MSN to *Varda*
Sting Saruman's Treachery

At first I thought that Saruman had only betrayed Gandalf, and the rest of M-E, and turned to Sauron, but it seems that he also turned against Sauron too. Was he working on his own against both Sauron AND the good guys, or was he partially allied with Sauron?
'It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: someone has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them' ~Frodo
"Life is hard. After all, it kills you." - Katharine Hepburn
*Varda* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2002, 02:55 PM   #2
Spirit of Mist
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tol Eressea
Posts: 3,071
Mithadan is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Mithadan is a guest at the Prancing Pony.

Saruman had first betrayed the West by turning to Sauron secretly. Later, when Saruman became aware that Gandalf knew the location of the One Ring and that it was in possession of a Hobbit, he began to act to seize the Ring himself. Thus he tricked Radagast into luring Gandalf to Orthanc in a bid to "convert" Gandalf to his camp. Some suggest that the crows which attempted to locate the Fellowship in Hollin were sent by Saruman, not Sauron. Saruman's power play was devious and he, at all times, attempted to position himself so that if Sauron recovered the Ring, Saruman would have appeared to be a loyal servant. Only after Merry and Pippin were captured did he act overtly in his own interest. So he was twice a traitor, first to the West, then again to his new master -- Sauron.
Beleriand, Beleriand,
the borders of the Elven-land.
Mithadan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2002, 05:13 PM   #3
Shade of Carn Dm
akhtene's Avatar
Join Date: May 2002
Location: stronghold of the North
Posts: 392
akhtene has just left Hobbiton.

Perhaps from the start Saruman didn't intend to side with anyone, as he wanted power (and the Ring as the incarnation of power) for himself. But while using the Palantir of Orthanc he got in too close a contact with Sauron and got trapped by him. Thus some of his actions were inspired and guided by Sauron, though I don't think Saruman was completely overpowered (the way Denethor was on similar occasion). I don't believe he ever really wilingly sided with Sauron, only for his own convenience or under control; I think it was ultimate power he was after.
But he definitely betrayed the White Council and the case he had been sent to assist.
Где найти мне сил, чтобы вернуться через века,
Чтобы ты - простил?..
А трава разлуки высока...
akhtene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2002, 07:57 AM   #4
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 117
O'Boile has just left Hobbiton.

In UT, it talks about how Saruman decieves the Nazgul when they are hunting for the ring. He was clearly looking to play both sides to his advantage for some time before the war of the ring. I also read that that was why he agreed to attack Dol Guldor... to get Sauron away from where the ring might be.
O'Boile is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:37 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.