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Old 07-21-2002, 05:22 PM   #1
*Varda*
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Sting Did Arwen have to give up her immortality?

I just finished reading RotK for the 3rd time. I don't really see WHY Arwen couldn't go to Valinor after Aragorn died. Couldn't she just have remained an elf and stayed till Aragorn died and then passed into the West? Was it really necessary for her to give up her immortality? Maybe I'm just in denial.

One more question - Did Elrond's children have to go into the West at the same time as him? In the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen it seemed so.
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Old 07-21-2002, 05:29 PM   #2
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Back in the end of the first age when Elrond was given the choice of which race he wanted to be counted among, Elves or Men, upon choosing to become counted among the Eldar he was told that his children also would have a choice upon his depature from ME, to go with their father into the West and be counted among the Elves or to remain in ME and be counted among Men. Arwen chose to remain and marry Aragorn therefore her choice was to be counted among Men.
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Old 07-21-2002, 05:34 PM   #3
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Sting

Thanks for explaining that. I was never entirely sure if or why they had to leave with Elrond, and why Arwen then couldn't pass into the west. Still in denial about Arwen and Aragorn both dying though. It's just that empty space you get when the book's finished and Frodo's gone etc...well time to get cracking (properly) on the Silm.
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Old 07-21-2002, 06:12 PM   #4
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Sting

I think too that, Arwen wanted to be with Aragorn after he died.
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Old 07-21-2002, 09:43 PM   #5
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For some reason I fell compelled to be a wet blanket and point out that we don't know that they would have been, and neither did they.
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Old 07-21-2002, 11:31 PM   #6
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Quite, Kuruharan, but they certainly had a better chance of it than they would have had if Arwen had chosen to be an Elf.
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Old 07-22-2002, 12:40 AM   #7
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Tolkien

Personally, I cannot see Arwen continuing her life for any length of time after she had known such love with Aragorn...

I believe had she been immortal when he died she still would have gone to Cerin Amroth, laid down, and died of a broken, grieiving heart... [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

*sniff*

The story of Aragorn and Arwen has such a tragic air about that I want to cry whenever I think about it!

<font color="orange">
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Old 07-22-2002, 01:24 AM   #8
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In Appendix A, the Story of Aragorn and Arwen, Arwen herself gives the answer to that question.

Aragorn says:
Quote:
The uttermost choice is before you: to repent and go to the Havens and bear away into the West the memory of our days together that shall be there evergreen but never more than memory; or else to abide the Doom of Men.
Arwen answers:
Quote:
Nay, dear lord, that choice is long over. There is now no ship that would bear me hence.
Aragorn and Arwen were married for 120 years; by that time, all elves who wanted to leave Middle-earth had gone. As to her brothers, they did not go to the Havens with Elrond, but I don't know whether they stayed in Middle-earth for good or went west later. Perhaps someone else has a reference to their fate.
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Old 07-22-2002, 11:00 AM   #9
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So then Aragorn and Arwen's children were counted among men because both of their parentes were counted among men?
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Old 07-22-2002, 11:01 AM   #10
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Silmaril

Certainly!
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Old 07-22-2002, 11:34 AM   #11
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Sting

Elladan and Elrohir both chose to stay in ME, which is the cause to Elrond's great grief after the War of the Ring: He lost all three of his children when sailing west. What is annoying me is that it never says why Elladan and Elrohir stayed in ME, only that it was for some other reason than Arwen (meaning not because they loved a mortal woman).
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Old 07-23-2002, 07:37 AM   #12
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Sting

Maybe Elladan and Elrohir were still really ****ed at the orcs and wanted to keep hunting them or maybe they were still looking for the orcs that had tortured their mother (this would explain why the kept running off with the Dunedain to hunt orcs)
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