The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > Novices and Newcomers
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-12-2009, 04:44 PM   #1
Eönwë
Flame Imperishable
 
Eönwë's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Right here
Posts: 3,995
Eönwë is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Eönwë is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Eönwë is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
Tolkien and French...

...A bad relationship.

While re-reading the Appendix in ROTK, I came across this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appendix E, Consonants
The ORcs, and some Dwarves, are said to have used a back or uvular r, a sound which the Eldar found distasteful
Now, I've read this before and understood that it was referring to the way r is pronounced in French. But now with my (slightly) increased knowledge of Tolkien and his works it seems that this was just one of his many jabs at the the French language.


So, basically, are there any other examples other examples of this sort of thing in Tolkien's works?





PS. Well, I did a quick search and found to my surprise that there didn't seem to be another thread like this.
__________________
Welcome to the Barrow Do-owns Forum / Such a lovely place
Eönwë is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2009, 12:33 AM   #2
davem
Illustrious Ulair
 
davem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,256
davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Humphrey Carpenter tells of an incident when he & a BBC radio producer took Tolkien to a French restaurant to discuss the possibiity of him (Tolkien) taking part in a programme. At the end of the meal Carpenter broached the subject & asked Tolkien if he'd be interested in doing the broadcast. Tolkien replied 'Why don't you take me to dinner & ask me.'

As we know, Tolkien never forgave the French for the Norman Conquest - hardly surprising when you see what William & his followers went in for when they took over
Quote:
From the Humber to Tees, William's men burnt whole villages and slaughtered the inhabitants. Foodstores and livestock were destroyed so that anyone surviving the initial massacre would soon succumb to starvation over the winter. The land was salted to destroy its productivity for decades forward. The survivors were reduced to cannibalism[4], with one report stating that the skulls of the dead were cracked open so that the brains could be eaten.A plague followed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrying_of_the_North
davem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2009, 03:56 AM   #3
Rune Son of Bjarne
Odinic Wanderer
 
Rune Son of Bjarne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Under the Raven banner, between tall Odin and white Christ!
Posts: 4,036
Rune Son of Bjarne is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Rune Son of Bjarne is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Rune Son of Bjarne is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Send a message via AIM to Rune Son of Bjarne Send a message via MSN to Rune Son of Bjarne
Quote:
Originally Posted by davem View Post
Humphrey Carpenter tells of an incident when he & a BBC radio producer took Tolkien to a French restaurant to discuss the possibiity of him (Tolkien) taking part in a programme. At the end of the meal Carpenter broached the subject & asked Tolkien if he'd be interested in doing the broadcast. Tolkien replied 'Why don't you take me to dinner & ask me.'

As we know, Tolkien never forgave the French for the Norman Conquest - hardly surprising when you see what William & his followers went in for when they took over
That is what happens when you rebell and do not make sure that your allies will stand by your side, instead of accepting a pay to go home.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalaith View Post
Rune is my brother from another mother.

Rune Son of Bjarne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 05:07 PM   #4
Guinevere
Banshee of Camelot
 
Guinevere's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 5,833
Guinevere is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
In letter #213 Tolkien wrote
Quote:
....I like good plain food (unrefrigerated), but detest French cooking
__________________
Yes! "wish-fulfilment dreams" we spin to cheat
our timid hearts, and ugly Fact defeat!
Guinevere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2009, 05:00 PM   #5
Lalwendë
A Mere Boggart
 
Lalwendë's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,804
Lalwendë is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Lalwendë is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinevere View Post
In letter #213 Tolkien wrote
That brings to mind a wee bit of ranting that happened in our house at around 7.15 today. There was a group of continental Europeans on TV saying unpleasant things about the British and the French man said something about how our fruit and veg is tasteless and bland...

...funny that. Our apples for one were perfectly lovely until the Golden 'Delicious' came to these shores...

I straight away thought about what Tolkien would have said and it might not have been very different
__________________
Gordon's alive!
Lalwendë is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2009, 07:56 AM   #6
Mithalwen
Pilgrim Soul
 
Mithalwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,903
Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Master TGWBS would be far more up to date on both French and linguistics but having taken ages to perfect the rolled French R (in a language lab holding down teh tip of my tongue with a pen)..these days I only seem to use it when muttering "morrrrrrrrdorrrrrrrrrrr. Clearly either my French or my Elvish is wrong...

I think he may have been further prejudiced against France by some tragedy that unfolded while he was acting as a tutor on a trip there. I can't quite remember what.
__________________
“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”

Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace
Mithalwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2009, 04:30 PM   #7
Lalwendë
A Mere Boggart
 
Lalwendë's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,804
Lalwendë is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Lalwendë is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithalwen View Post
Master TGWBS would be far more up to date on both French and linguistics but having taken ages to perfect the rolled French R (in a language lab holding down teh tip of my tongue with a pen)..these days I only seem to use it when muttering "morrrrrrrrdorrrrrrrrrrr. Clearly either my French or my Elvish is wrong...

I think he may have been further prejudiced against France by some tragedy that unfolded while he was acting as a tutor on a trip there. I can't quite remember what.
In Drout's Tolkien Encyclopedia it says that Tolkien went to France as a tutor to two Mexican boys, in 1913. Apparently he liked Paris and Brittany but he found French people 'vulgar' (wasn't this around the time of the fin de siecle and things such as the Folie Bergeres - which might well have been shocking to a provincial English lad!). However there was indeed a tragedy, one of the boys' Aunts got run down and killed in front of Tolkien!
__________________
Gordon's alive!
Lalwendë is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:52 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.