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Old 12-13-2003, 07:35 PM   #1
The Only Real Estel
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Pipe Faramir's Hair Color Change

I don't think that this has been mentioned much before, in fact, I didn't even notice it until I read a post on lindil's <B>'PJ on trial for 'Crimes against Tolkienity'</B> thread, but: <P> In the books it states that Faramir's hair is black, but in the movie it's light-brownish-redish. While it's not a major issue for me, what are you guys's thoughts about his hair change? Do you guys mind it, or not mind it? <p>[ 8:43 PM December 13, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]
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Old 12-13-2003, 07:47 PM   #2
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Well, the purist in me is shocked and horrified!<BR>But he looks good in brownish/reddish, so I'm not complaning.<BR>Rather, I would loudly complain about Faramir taking away Legolas's shot, which was one of my fav. moments in the book. you know, near the end of FOTR Legolas shoots down the wraith from the sky. Well that wasn't in the movie. Instead they had Faramir shoot down the wraith from the sky in TT. <BR>Errggg.
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Old 12-13-2003, 07:51 PM   #3
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>But he looks good in brownish/reddish, so I'm not complaning. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It did fit him rather well. I wonder if Jackson went with that hair to further stress the look of brotherhood between Faramir & Boromir?
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Old 12-13-2003, 07:53 PM   #4
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That's what I think, too.
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Old 12-13-2003, 07:56 PM   #5
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I wonder if Jackson went with that hair to further stress the look of brotherhood between Faramir & Boromir?<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Most likely. I agree that the hair color worked. I've always had trouble picturing him with black hair, that's one of the difficulties of meeting a character, forming a picture of him, and then finding out a whole book later that your vision is incorrect. The best I've been able to settle on in my mind is dark brown.
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Old 12-13-2003, 07:58 PM   #6
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As I mentioned in my first post, it actually slipped past me. I've been trying to forget as much as possible of RotK so that I don't notice every little minor change in the movie, & Faramir having black hair totally slipped my mind.
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Old 12-13-2003, 07:59 PM   #7
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>In the books it states that Faramir's hair is black<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well I have never noticed that. I am mad now! Why does PJ have to mess up everything! <P>Actually I don't really mind it. Maybe it is because I still don't really like the changed Faramir (I am never going to forgive him for taking Frodo and Sam to Osgiliath, which was completely unecessary (and yes I have seen the extended edition)). The hair color would be the least of worries about the charater for me.<p>[ 9:00 PM December 13, 2003: Message edited by: Gorwingel ]
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Old 12-13-2003, 08:01 PM   #8
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Yep. I'm with ya there.I re-read TT just before I saw it for the 1st time in theaters, and my long (ahem, reddish-brown ) hair was swinging ever few minutes as I swung my head towards my brother saying: "They cannot do this! It is folly!" Truly. My brother was much embarrased.
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Old 12-13-2003, 08:03 PM   #9
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>And so they stood on the walls of the City of Gondor, and a great wind rose and blew, and their hair, raven and golden, streamed out mingling in the air. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That was the quote given by a fellow BDer (Feanor of the Peredhil), the golden being Eowyn's hair, & the raven being Faramir's.<P>P.S. Gorwingel: I quite agree with you, but there have been so many threads on Faramir's character change & I dont' believe any on his hair, so I thought I'd go for it .<p>[ 9:15 PM December 13, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]
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Old 12-13-2003, 08:07 PM   #10
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Thanks, Estel, but it was actually Feanor of the Peredhil. Oh, well. I appreciate the compliment of your remembering it as me, if that may be counted as a compliment.
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Old 12-13-2003, 08:37 PM   #11
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Goodness... Look what I've done!<P>I actually quite like the look of Theatrical Faramir. Brown hair suits him well, and even when I first read the books, I couldn't find it in me to see a Raven-haired Faramir. I always pictured black haired people as being kind of... sketchy. (I've since changed my mind). Now I see Faramir as looking somewhat like a close friend of mine, sans the multiple piercings and soon-to-be inkblots (featuring wraithes and the Hunter of Utumno, actually).<P>It's the simple things like that that bother me most. Faramir's hair color, Glorfindel's absence, Haldir's distinct lack of brothers and flet, Gimli getting beat on for breathing loudly as opposed to Sam... Things that have no real importance to the overall plot or theme, but were important to me. Things that easily could have been included. (example: "The Dwarf breathes so loudly we could shoot him in the dark. By the way, these are my brothers who only speak Elven." or something equally explanitory.)<P>Cheers, and I'm flattered that a thread was inspired from my rant! <P>Fea
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Old 12-13-2003, 11:39 PM   #12
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The Faramir hair-reference passed me over the first six or seven times I read the trilogy, although I had a pretty good idea of what Eowyn looked like (he just describes her a bit more, I think). My personal problem with a very dark-haired Faramir is that when I try to picture him for some reason I always end up with a mental image of Marcus from "Babylon 5" - that man does *not* belong in Gondor! (Sherwood Forest, maybe, but not Gondor). So I'm fine with the more medium-brown colour that Wenham has.<P>Besides, it does make him and Sean Bean look very brotherlike. I can give PJ a pass on this one, especially since the raven hair doesn't seem to have made much of an impression on most of us the first time around either . (But then, it doesn't bother me that Sam and Rosie are, for all purposes, blond, which technically they really shouldn't be. So I'm not really much of a hair purist).
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Old 12-14-2003, 07:01 AM   #13
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I don't think Faramir suits dark hair. He seems too... 'pure' to be dark. Like, I can imagine Boromir having a slightly evil streak, and dark hair to match. But Faramir's a good boy, with his golden angelic curls.
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Old 12-14-2003, 08:32 AM   #14
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Weird, I never noticed that. I guess they did it because the actor had similar colour hair, so reddish brown would suit him better and look more natrual. And it would enhance the similarities between him and Boromir.
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Old 12-14-2003, 10:51 AM   #15
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I think that PJ had a fairly good reason to change both Boromir's and Faramir's hair colors. If they had both been dark-haired, then the non-Tolkienite folk would have been mightily confused between them and Aragorn, especially between Faramir and Aragorn. PJ changed their hair color to show that they were of separate bloodlines (although very distantly related) and separate roles. If they had all had the same hair color, then some idiots would have been thinking, "Are they estranged brothers or something?" which, as we all know, just will NOT work.
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Old 12-14-2003, 03:31 PM   #16
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I noticed it right away the first time I saw a picture of David Wenham as Faramir, but it didn't bother me that much because I thought he looked so all-around Faramirish. That was back when I got all excited about seeing Faramir in the movies. I even joked with Kalimac somewhere in Middle-earth Mirth that after the movie was out there'd be Faramir-fangirls because he's such a sensitive character and now good-looking to boot. (Ah well, I still enjoy looking at him as Faramir and the EE scenes where he's nicer).<P>Anyway, I didn't think PJ had any special reason to do it, besides the fact that David Wenham is blonde and blonde people don't look good in black wigs. Has anyone seen that "Oliver Twist" TV movie, the one where Andy Serkis plays Bill Sikes? (Very good version, by the way.) The character of Monks was played by a very blonde actor, and they put him in a very black wig, so he looked horribly pale and sickly. It was perfect for that character, but I don't think it would suit Faramir. <P>Of course, I suppose they could have looked for a darker actor right off.
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Old 12-14-2003, 03:54 PM   #17
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*Sigh* I remember joking about that too, Diamond . There might be Faramir-fangirls yet though, after ROTK - the Eowyn romance might be cut down a bit, but the sympathy quotient will be up 500% after seeing those scenes with Denethor.<P>And yes, black wigs on blond actors generally look dreadful - I'm not sure why, my guess would be that there's a subtle difference in skin colour or tone or something like that, so that the black hair just seems a little "off". Dye doesn't generally work either - I knew several blondes in grade school who decided to go Goth and dyed their hair, well, raven-black. Granted, they probably didn't do the best job in the world, but it just looked wrong. Whereas one of the brunettes also dyed her hair black and it didn't look bad. Unfair, of course, but that seems to be how it is...<p>[ 4:57 PM December 14, 2003: Message edited by: Kalimac ]
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Old 12-14-2003, 04:10 PM   #18
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It probably has a lot to do with the eyebrows, too. If someone has really light blonde eyebrows it will end up looking like they have none at all, because you would expect it to match the hair. Pale skin and dark hair can look "striking", but any example I can think of includes dark eyebrows.
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Old 12-14-2003, 05:20 PM   #19
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I'd like to add my brother's input:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I'd like to note that Sean Bean's hair has gone gray, and Viggo's blond yet his wig was black <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Also, Orlando Bloom has dark hair but was painted as a blonde, so it doesn't really seem to matter what the actor's original hair color is. I understand PJ and co. blonding up Faramir and the Disco King for audience-understanding's sake, I just don't like it because Tolkien states so clearly their hair colors.<P>Fea
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Old 12-14-2003, 07:14 PM   #20
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Viggo's wig was brown.<P>Edit: Also, from black-haired to blonde (Orlando-Legolas) has a very different effect, not a sickly one. I'm not saying that David Wenham's coloring (skin and facial hair) <I>was</I> the reason for the change from the book, but it's a logical one when you try to picture him that way. And since I like Wenham's overall look as Faramir, the hair color is forgivable.<p>[ 8:20 PM December 14, 2003: Message edited by: Diamond18 ]
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Old 12-14-2003, 07:17 PM   #21
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I didn't actually find Boromir's hair color that far off. A little light, maybe, but fine, overall. <P>I'm not sure why they chose to change some characters' hair color and leave others the same. It seems to me that they were trying to go closest to the actor's original hair color as they could, but as noted by Feanor, there are several important cases where this was not done. So I'm not sure of PJ and co.'s motives. Maybe they just wanted to go along with what they thought looked good, whether it contradicted the book or not. It doesn't really bug me that much, though, either way.
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Old 12-15-2003, 03:35 PM   #22
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Well, I guess Tolkien's insistence on Faramir's hair colour would have been a part of his character. But I think that an obvious hair colour change to the actor (as opposed to a pretty flawless change in Orly's hair colour) would have been a mistake. I know several Downers cringe when they see Wormtongue's make-up. <P>Frankly I agree that Faramir's hair colour is the least of the problems raised by that character in TTT (and probably ROTK, let's be honest). I think it would be a real shame if the writers took pains to ensure his hair colour was correct, but still went ahead and butchered his character.
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Old 12-15-2003, 09:46 PM   #23
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I think Finwe's right. Faramir and Boromir would have the same hair color to mark them as brothers, and Boromir could not have dark hair because then he would be confused with Aragorn in the first movie. So, Boromir's hair was changed to brownish and Faramir's followed suit. <P>Aw, Kalimac, Marcus could have sat in the caves of Henneth Annun very inconspicuously. Some of those Ithilien rangers are even weirder looking. And then, when Eowyn was touched by the black breath, he could hook himself up to the alien life-sucking device.. oh, never mind. <P>-Lily
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Old 12-16-2003, 10:47 AM   #24
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I noticed the changing of Faramir's hair colour the very first time I saw a picture of him on the internet, and to this day I think it is Peter Jackson's most sickening change in the entire trilogy, possibly even the entire history of film adaptations.<P>The first time I saw The Two Towers I had to close my eyes whenever David Wenham was on screen.<P>Speaking of Boromir, didn't he have darker hair in the books as well? Though I feel <B>Finwe</B>, is correct in thinking that the change was made to avoid confusion with Aragorn. Those casual fans eh?! <p>[ 11:49 AM December 16, 2003: Message edited by: Eomer of the Rohirrim ]
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Old 12-16-2003, 03:58 PM   #25
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I know we're all saying that Faramir looks better with his movie-hair than with his book-hair, but is it possible if we all would've realized he had black hair in the books, we wouldn't be of that same opinion? Just wondering... Had Faramir had black hair, he would've annoyed his father even more with his striking unlikness to Boromir, but maybe PJ thought it better to make them look close to alike :/ .<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The first time I saw The Two Towers I had to close my eyes whenever David Wenham was on screen.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Lucky. You missed all of those terrible Faramir character changes then. <p>[ 5:01 PM December 16, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]
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Old 12-16-2003, 05:03 PM   #26
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I did notice the change of hair, but I was so revolted by the character changes that was the least of my grievances. <BR>It would have been a lovely dramatic moment to have the whole hair blowing in the wind scene, but from what I read, PJ cut out most of the romance anyway. GRRR! Usually I don't go for mushy stuff, but that could've been done tastefully. <BR>I agree with the whole complexion/hair argument though. I have very light skin, light strawberry blonde hair, and nearly invisible eyelashes/eyebrows--they're a very light blonde. When I put on a black or brown wig, it looks really weird.<BR>A Faramir fan girl I am, but it's more because of the book character's wonderfulness than the movie actor's looks or dialogue (although, Wenham's being cast assuages some of my anger against the casting director, whoever that was). I loved book Faramir , which is part of the reason I'm dressing up as Dernhelm/owyn. I think I would have married him. Maybe.
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Old 12-17-2003, 03:38 AM   #27
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I did notice the change of hair, but I was so revolted by the character changes that was the least of my grievances. <BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I felt exactly the same way! <BR>Anyhow, Boromir's hair colour was wrong as well, but I forgave that soon, because Sean Bean is such a marvellous actor and played Boromir totally convincing.<P>In the books, <B>both</B> Boromir and Faramir have dark hair!<BR>Description of Boromir at the council of Elrond: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>a tall man with a fair and noble face, dark-haired and grey-eyed, proud and stern of glance. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR>And when they laid him in the funeral boat: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>they combed his long dark hair and arrayed it upon his shoulders <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I get the impression, that <B>all</B> the Dnedain were generally dark-haired.<P>Faramir's rangers are so described: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Frodo saw that they were goodly men, pale skinned, dark of hair, with grey eyes and faces sad and proud <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The same with Aragorn: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>so high and glad of face, kingly, lord of Men, dark haired with eyes of grey.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR>Viggo is superb as Aragorn, but sometimes I'm a bit disturbed by his nearly invisible eyebrows!! <P>I think, dark hair, pale skin and "sea-grey " eyes was Tolkien's private ideal of beauty and nobility! The Eldar are equally described (except "in the golden house of Finarfin")<P>As for David Wenham, well it's not his fault,but I just cannot accept him as Faramir. I had such a fixed image of him in my mind, probably been looking too often at Anke Eiszmann's Faramir-paintings...<BR><A HREF="http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/loth/a/n/anke/faramir_drawing_elf.jpg.html" TARGET=_blank>Faramir</A> That is the <B>real</B> Faramir for me, the one that I love!<p>[ 4:49 AM December 17, 2003: Message edited by: Guinevere ]
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Old 12-17-2003, 10:26 AM   #28
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It would probably get people confused to have Aragorn & Boromir have roughly the same hair color (most people where bad enough as it was ), but I think he still could've worked Boromir's hair color out correctly. And then of course Faramir's would've been black to & all would've been perfect. But as other people have said, it's really not much of a change when you look at the rest of his character...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>PJ cut out most of the romance anyway.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Unless it revolves around Aragorn.
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Old 12-17-2003, 02:33 PM   #29
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No, I didn't mind Faramir at all. Read all the old threads if you want to know why.
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Old 12-17-2003, 03:26 PM   #30
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Yes, that was one of the many times when I yelled, no wait, I was too polite for that, I muttered at the screan during TTT. The first time we see Faramir in full. I think that Boromir's hair should also have been darker, which would have solved the 'brother' problem. In the books Faramir was always supposed to look more like Aragorn than Boromir anyway. I've done some biology, and even just look around me. I have always had very dark, almost black hair and my brother has blond hair. I don't think that they needed the hair to match for them to look like brothers.
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Old 12-17-2003, 09:44 PM   #31
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>No, I didn't mind Faramir at all. Read all the old threads if you want to know why.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sorry if there were others regarding his hair change, but all I was finding was the usual gripes (my own included )...<p>[ 10:44 PM December 17, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]
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Old 12-18-2003, 03:41 PM   #32
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For those of you who couldn't care less (and I understand that everybody is entitled to their opinions) about Faramir's hair color change, think of it like this:<P>What would the reaction be if (and I, like lindil, use quotes to differenciate the theatrical characters from the canon characters) "Gandalf" was given black hair? "Aragorn" blonde? What about a brunette "Galadriel"? <P>I picture the reaction: mass outrage from fans and nitpickers. Everyone would throw in their angry opinions if "Arwen" was a redhead. So the question is... why is Faramir different?<P>Fea
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Old 12-21-2003, 02:26 PM   #33
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I think, dark hair, pale skin and "sea-grey " eyes was Tolkien's private ideal of beauty and nobility! The Eldar are equally described (except "in the golden house of Finarfin")<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So it would seem. The thing is, though, this is rather uncommon, especially in America. I usually imagine a lot of people with brown eyes, just to differentiate between the grey-eyed ones. Because grey eyes really aren't all that common. Many more people have blue than grey.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> So the question is... why is Faramir different?<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't know. I think it's partially because he isn't really described at all until we're already well-acquainted with him, and for some reason, he seems to be more of a light-brown-hair person (Do you ever notice that lots of people have similar opinions on a character's appearance, even if it's never described? Either authors slip in little inconspicuous descriptions that no one notices, or else we all just create an appearance for the character based on their personality and integrity, and somehow we all have similar ways of doing that.)
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Old 12-21-2003, 03:25 PM   #34
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i hated it! in TTT they got him entirely wrong; the least they could have done was give him raven hair. i spend a lot of time commenting on it when i watch him. even though i think he is a wonderful actor
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Old 12-21-2003, 03:34 PM   #35
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Not to be rude but, honestly, don't you think you're being a <I>little</I> nitpicky? I mean, there are so many plot changes and whatnot that we have our heated discussions over, but a small thing such as changing the colour of Faramir's hair? <BR>I understand that, yes, if they had changed Gandalf or Galadriel's hair colour it would have been a big deal, simply because their hair colour is somewhat integral to their characters (i.e. Gandalf the Grey has <I>grey</I> hair, the White has <I>white</I>, and Galadriel gives Gimli three <I>golden</I> hairs)<BR>However, Faramir having black hair in the books isn't really significant to the story at all, except for the part about he and Eowyn's hair being entwined, which really doesn't matter.<BR>So I'm all for debates, but this one just seems really trivial and insignificant in relation to canon and the movie adaptation of the story.
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Old 12-21-2003, 03:38 PM   #36
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i htink it's important. they were just trying to make him like Boromir, which annoyed me.
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Old 12-21-2003, 04:55 PM   #37
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I think its quite important. Especially when you consider how much time they must have put in when thinking about the changes to the storyline they were making. In the case of the wigs, however, it does seem slightly like a case of<P>"No black wigs left? Just make him a brunette. I don't care and the audience shouldn't either."<P>Well, I care! It wasn't meant to be like that! <p>[ 5:56 PM December 21, 2003: Message edited by: Eomer of the Rohirrim ]
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Old 12-26-2003, 12:05 PM   #38
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Ok, so I've been reading this forum for about three years now, and now is the time I thought I have something to say. (Everyone can decide for themselves whether talking about someone's hair color is the most significant thing for which to register...)
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Old 12-26-2003, 12:11 PM   #39
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So sorry, pressed enter unintentionally... <P>But anyhow, about Faramir's hair..I actually think it is MUCH better as mr. Tolkien himself describes it, dark. My opinion is based on this photo: <A HREF="http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=My_eGallery&file=index &do=showpic&pid=15441&orderby=titleA" TARGET=_blank>http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=My_eGallery&file=index &do=showpic&pid=15441&orderby=titleA</A> .
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Old 12-26-2003, 01:56 PM   #40
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I personally feel that this is not a big deal as far as the movies go, but here's my opinion anyway.<P>I know Tolkien said that Faramir was supposed to have black hair. But like many other people here, I can't see Faramir having black hair, it just doesn't work in my mind. When I was first introduced to the character of Faramir, I visualised him having brown hair, and then seeing PJ's Faramir, I thought David Wenham looked more or less like the Faramir I imagined. I just don't see him having black hair.<P>I'm sure there probably would be more of an outcry if it was any other characters. But I think the difference there, is that the other characters tend to be described more fully when we first meet them. We know straight off that Galadriel has golden hair, so it's hard to imagine her as dark haired. With Faramir, his hair colour is left pretty wide open until further on, but by that time, a lot of readers have already formed their own image of Faramir.
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