The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Movies
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-24-2022, 05:36 PM   #1
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,682
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Boots A Golden Opportunity Missed

I’ve been ruminating about all the controversy, some of which has erupted in this here forum, and I think the Rings of Power producers have passed up a golden opportunity to both put together an entertaining show and (more or less) satisfy everyone…kinda.

Picture this:

Coast of Harad in the Second Age, let’s say the area of future Umbar for familiarity’s sake. In the area there exists a relatively sophisticated culture of Haradrim (think Bronze Age palace culture such as Egypt, Hatti, or Sumer) living in your standard idyllic societal paradise, complete with all the benefits of handwaving away all the problems that usually beset human society.

For bonus points this Haradrim society can even be a matriarchy and come with a mandatory once-a-month 24-hour open-air orgy as optional features. (I mean, we have boxes to check off here).

In the background is the looming threat of Sauron’s power, but this is, of course, poorly understood by our Haradrim as their ancestors had nothing to do with the Wars of Belariand and have no experience of elves, dwarves, etc. For the purposes of the idyllic we will assume that in the past they had largely been ignored by Sauron and remain largely uncorrupted by his direct influence…but now he is starting to grow more interested in them.

Let’s say that we have two young and extremely attractive protagonists, and we will call them “Anti” and “Pro.” They will, of course, have building, awkward, and unfulfilled sexual tension between them as they get older. We can probably get a lot of Season One milage out of an irritating “Will they or won’t they” sub-plot that will get the fanbase equal parts frustrated and hooked on the series.

We will also need the series to introduce the Wheel family that lives in the protagonists' neighborhood; most importantly for the story will be the siblings Third and Fifth. We might be able to get a Season One filler episode exploring the tragic circumstances that lead to the death of their sibling Fourth.

Anyway, Third Wheel and Fifth Wheel obviously are head over heels in love with Anti and Pro but Anti and Pro have thoroughly friend-zoned them. (Casting note: Third and Fifth need to be attractive, but not as attractive as our leads…but I suppose this goes without saying. There will probably be some weird corners of the fandom that will stan hard for them though… Those pleb fans, amirite?)

Anyway, this idyllic world is shattered when these strangers from the sea calling themselves Numenorians show up.

Or rather…

Did I say “future Umbar?” We will make it a tension building Episode Two or Episode Three reveal that the Numenorian colony has been there for some time and their influence is starting to impact the Haradrim culture in negative ways. The Haradrim appreciate and are intimidated by the Numenorian material and technical sophistication, but the Numenorians have started attempting to dominate the region.

The presence of the Numenorian colony is what is driving Sauron’s interest in the area. Some kind of Sauronic emissaries need to be flitting around in the background seducing people (in multiple senses of the word…checkboxes, people) and further building tension…errm…moving on.

Umbar will be ruled by some Oblivious Fat Dufus (Casting Note: See if Ian McNeice or Timothy Spall are available) who will be married to the standard ravenous, narcissistic Femme Fatale type (Casting Note: Pretty sure Amber Heard will be available…although perhaps a bit wooden, awful, and past her prime).

All of these factors will simmer together nicely for Season One. The penultimate episode of Season One will revolve around Anti and Pro having a tremendous falling out and they are unable to resolve their issues, get out of their own way, and start a relationship. Third and Fifth are delighted by this development as they think their times have finally come.

In a predictable twist (if the other subplot has been managed correctly) the final episode of Season One will culminate in a heart-breaking sequence where Pro is enslaved by the Numenorians. This causes Anti to finally come to terms with the fact that Pro is THE ONE and, alongside Third and Fifth, resolves to rescue poor Pro. The final scene of Season One will be one of Sauron’s emissaries approaching Anti (possibly in the middle of the monthly orgy…check) and offering to help.

Season Two will begin with Pro having been claimed (ahem) by Femme Fatale and, naturally enough, the travails have made Pro realize that Anti is THE ONE but is unable to escape Femme Fatale’s clutches…(check).

Anti, having accepted the Emissary’s offer of help, is working tirelessly to put together an escape attempt (we can probably squeeze two or three episodes out of this).

Finally, the attempt is launched with the assistance of the Emissary and Pro is dramatically rescued from the clutches of the Numenorians! (We can probably squeeze two or three episodes out of this too. This would also offer prime opportunity to check off the “childish toilet humor” box).

During the rescue the Emissary uses some dark power that is critical to the successful escape. This greatly alarms Anti but Pro is delighted by this and wants to see more.

Pro, personality darkened by events, starts associating more and more with the Emissary and becomes an adherent to Sauron’s cause.

This reinjects the “Will They or Won’t They” dynamic into the Anti and Pro relationship so that they still fail to come to terms with each other, hopefully causing further mayhem in the fanbase. (Successful, stable relationships are boring.) Third Wheel and Fifth Wheel are also delighted by this turn of events.

Sauron’s emissaries are trying to stir the Haradrim people into waging war on the Numenorians and in the final episode of Season Two, during one of the monthly orgies (check), Sauron himself appears (obviously in his hot form as Annatar…double check) to proclaim a campaign against Umbar and the Haradrim people are split into hostile factions divided over how to respond. Season Two ends with Anti and Pro bitterly divided against each other and in temporary relationships with Third and Fifth. (Anti with Third and Pro with Fifth).

Final scene of the season should be Anti and Pro moodily staring at each other across a divide as the people of the city descend into tumult around them.

Season Three opens with Sauron in control of the city (should probably come up with a name for it) and the Anti-Sauron faction (led by Anti, of course) engaging in brigandage and banditry outside the walls. Pro is a mid-tier leader under Sauron, not a very important figure in Sauron’s eyes.

(We can get some filler episodes here…)

Both Anti and Pro are profoundly and deeply dissatisfied in their relationships with Third and Fifth (respectively) and pining for each other to the point of distraction and misery, but neither will admit it to themselves or anyone else. Perhaps give one or the other (or both) a salacious dream sequence with each other to really get the fans riled up..?

Early-ish in Season Three there is a dramatic battle between Sauron’s forces and the Anti-Sauron forces (opportunities for over-the-top action sequences…check). Sauron’s forces are victorious and Anti is hauled back to the City in chains by Pro (both seething with inner turmoil). Third Wheel manages to escape from the battlefield.

Sauron, satisfied with the situation, departs and leaves the Emissary to lead the Haradrim in battle against Umbar.

Pro, discarding all hope of things working out with Anti, willingly joins the campaign.

Oblivious Fat Dufus leads his forces to ignominious defeat against Sauron’s Haradrim army (more over-the-top action sequences…check). Per custom, he will successfully escape the battlefield and return to Umbar.

Femme Fatale, enraged by his ineptitude, and the threat to her social standing, will murder him and take command of Umbar as Sauron’s forces surround the city and begin a siege.

Meanwhile, utter devotion compels Third to return to the Haradrim city and rescue Anti. Anti, still knowing that Pro is THE ONE and believing that Pro can be changed, immediately sets off to rescue Pro from the war. The “I Just Want My Beloved to be Happy” trope being in full play, Third goes along.

In the eight-part Series Finale, a Numenorian fleet arrives and attempts to relieve the siege of Umbar, just as Anti arrives to fetch Pro. The Emissary is killed in the ensuing battle in a manner befitting a stalwart villain who goes down with the ship. Sauron’s Haradrim forces are routed by the Numenorian fleet in a spectacular battle…quite possibly taking place in the middle of an open-air orgy depending on where we are on that quota. In the rout, and quite possibly inspired by the orgy, Femme Fatale charges out of the City to try to re-capture Pro and return him to slavery. Fifth is killed by Femme Fatale while trying to defend Pro, but Pro barely notices.

Pro is occupied in a climactic sword fight with Anti as Anti attempts to convince Pro of the folly of Sauron’s cause. Convinced more by the need to flee from the rout of Sauron’s forces than anything else, Pro, Anti, and Third try to escape but are set upon by Femme Fatale and brought to bay.

Naturally, all participants in this combat will have progressively less clothing the longer this goes.

At this point, the outcome depends on whether the show has already reached maudlin levels of pathos. In the unlikely event that it has, then Third is killed by Femme Fatale while trying to protect Anti and Pro. Pro is then accidently killed by Femme Fatale who is in turn killed by Anti.

Anti then goes on to become a lone, hooded wanderer who frequents all the taverns of Middle Earth and grimly hints at a dark past via cryptic utterings, while occasionally performing solo acts of anti-heroism.

Alternatively, in the rather more likely event that the series has not yet reached sufficient levels of “cover your eyes, I can’t take this level of stupid emotional manipulation” yet then Third, Pro, and Anti are all killed by Femme Fatale who is then herself killed by a stampeding oliphant that was part of the Haradrim forces, leaving the audience to ponder the point of all this…but hopefully not too hard because if the series does well enough we will need to have a sequel series.

This outline has the advantage of checking off all the boxes required by contemporary entertainment elites, including but not limited to: all available sides being evil, fundamental existential meaninglessness, going into areas of Middle Earth dominated by under-represented ethnic groups, having those groups be the sympathetic anti-hero focal point of the story, a multi-faceted anti-oppression narrative, spectacularly unrealistic depictions of violence, cliched heroes, an unbearable romantic narrative, and levels of gratuitous sex that charge forward all the way into the realm of mind-numbing tedium.

This story idea comes with the added benefit of us embarrassing, regressive, troglodytic Tolkien lore-fiends being unable to complain that this story in any way changes, alters, or mutilates anything that Tolkien himself wrote while still being set squarely in an identifiable place and time in Middle Earth.

Also, due to the lack of dwarves, there won’t have to be any arguments about whether dwarven women should be bearded or not.

Sadly, I’ll lay you 10:1 that the outline I just wrote above would probably be a better and more entertaining TV series than the dreck that the two elitist, hipster goobers will plop out.
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2022, 06:38 PM   #2
Formendacil
Dead Serious
 
Formendacil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Perched on Thangorodrim's towers.
Posts: 3,327
Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Send a message via AIM to Formendacil Send a message via MSN to Formendacil
Boots

You jest, I fear, Master Kuruharan, but I would watch such a show and, indeed, I am more excited for your canon-compliant melodrama than for the Real Thing we're about to get.

But, alas, you have left off one crucial element that sinks the whole ship, I fear: you have not provided for all the visual call-backs to the Peter Jackson movie needed--needed out of the gate, after all, for the trailer-makers. You have not provided for Elves in Forests, Anglo-Saxons on horses, orks putting meat on the menu, or Hobbits smoking pipes. Without these crucial "see, it's just like you remember, but a TV show" elements, how shall you convince the Powers That Be to air your show?

Surely, you don't intend to let the mere NAME of Tolkien do the heavy lifting?
__________________
I prefer history, true or feigned.
Formendacil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2022, 07:16 AM   #3
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,682
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Boots

Quote:
you have not provided for all the visual call-backs to the Peter Jackson movie needed
Well, there is Sauron. We could have that flashy eye thing happen all the time when he is on screen.

Quote:
You have not provided for Elves in Forests
I am deliberately trying to avoid them. It would be very hard to have a canonical reference to elves that would satisfy the demands of contemporary elites.

Quote:
how shall you convince the Powers That Be to air your show?
I'm banking quite heavily on the violence and monthly orgy.
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2022, 07:34 AM   #4
Mithadan
Spirit of Mist
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tol Eressea
Posts: 3,170
Mithadan is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Mithadan is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Be logical now. How do you reconcile "a multi-faceted anti-oppression narrative" with "spectacularly unrealistic depictions of violence [and] cliched heroes?" This makes no sense.
__________________
Beleriand, Beleriand,
the borders of the Elven-land.
Mithadan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2022, 08:03 AM   #5
Huinesoron
Overshadowed Eagle
 
Huinesoron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
Posts: 3,576
Huinesoron is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Huinesoron is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Kuruharan's "Middle-earth: Off the Map", Episode 1 - "The Path Always Continues Onwards and Onwards"

A review by an overly-antagonistic self-proclaimed Tolkien Scholar

This show is a traversity. Where do I even START? According to the showrunners, it is supposedly "suggested by the works of J.R.R. Tolkien" (they couldn't even be bothered to write his full name!), but how does it start? With attractive people casting lustful glances at each other. Everyone knows that Jolkien Rolkien Rolkien Tolkien was a Catholic, and Catholics would never have sex. It's in Letters, and if you've read my latest blog article you'll know that it's reflected in every aspect of Middle-earth (see: LaCE, Sam Gamgee, the Female Orcs question, etc etc).

Our setting is apparently Harad, or "Harad", because it's nothing like the real one. The "characters" we meet are human, when RotK tells us exactly what they should be: "half-trolls with white eyes and red tongues". I'm not racist, but it's pretty clear JRRT was describing every non-white person in Middle-earth here, so the fact that "Pro" and "Auntie" are both attractive is in clear defiance of JRRT's written, canonical words.

The language used is 110% wrong too. Tolkien translated Westron into English, but left all other languages untranslated. That means these Fauxradrim should be speaking Haradrim - we know it exists because Gandalf had a name in it, "Incanus", so the so-called showrunner should have used this language for everything.

The "Wheel" family is a particularly egregious misnaming, because it is obvious that the Haradrim never had wheels. All technology in Middle-earth came from the elves or the dwarves, neither of which ever went anywhere near Harad, and they're never described as using wheels in the books. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure they shouldn't have swords, armour, houses, or clothes either; they clearly stole those inventions from Gondorians. I'm not racist in saying that - it's not because they're black, it's because only white people invent stuff in Middle-earth.

Coming back to the so-called "plot", it is all completely wrong. If this is the late Second Age, then all the Haradrim should be slaves of Sauron who have been taken as slaves by Numenor and are basically just whipped all day, because Numenoreans are entirely evil by this point (it's in the books). Tolkien once described Numenor as exactly like Egypt, so we know that the slaves would have been treated like the Hebrews in Prince of Egypt. But without the singing, because if there's one thing Tolkien would hate it's songs in his stories.

My point is, I watched the whole first episode and it is ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that the so-called showrunners (if that's even their real name) have written both Numenor and Sauron out of existence. It's therefore obvious that they're going to have these Haradrim invade and conquer Lindon, probably because they're racist against white people. I don't understand how they can pretend to like Tolkien when they're definitely going to do this thing that I've just made up in my head for them to do!

I could go on. This show is a horrible mismatch of non-Tolkien ideas (Auntie says "gods" once, when there is no paganism in Tolkien's "fundamentally Catholic work"), incorrect understanding of Tolkien (Auntie says "gods" once, which is an old word Tolkien used early on but later replaced with "Valar"), and Tolkien's writing but in the wrong place (Auntie says "gods" once, but the Fauxradrim should never have heard of the Valar). The only redeeming feature is that by boycotting it I can personally prevent anyone ever adapting Tolkien ever again and get Kuruharan fired, possibly into the sun.

Tune in next week for my review of episode two, "I Chanted About Twigs, About Twigs Which Were Metallic Yellow".

-Overly-Antagonistic Self-Proclaimed Tolkien Scholar
__________________
Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera
Huinesoron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2022, 07:20 PM   #6
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,682
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Boots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
"suggested by the works of J.R.R. Tolkien"
The title card says "Basedapted on the works of J.R.R. Tolkien."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
The language used is 110% wrong too. Tolkien translated Westron into English, but left all other languages untranslated. That means these Fauxradrim should be speaking Haradrim - we know it exists because Gandalf had a name in it, "Incanus", so the so-called showrunner should have used this language for everything.
The learned reviewer somehow failed to notice that the entire show was filmed in Haradric with Westron and English subtitles.

Quote:
get Kuruharan fired, possibly into the sun.
*slathers on sun tan lotion*
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

Last edited by Kuruharan; 10-07-2022 at 07:16 AM.
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2022, 07:11 AM   #7
Huinesoron
Overshadowed Eagle
 
Huinesoron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
Posts: 3,576
Huinesoron is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Huinesoron is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuruharan View Post
The learned reviewer somehow failed to notice that the entire show was filmed in Haradric with Westron and English subtitles.
If you can call that "Haradric". Carl F. Salo's purported work on that so-called language is a disgrace. Carl, if that's even his real name, should be shot into Anor (I'm using the Westron so you know how much of a scholar I am) alongside Kuruharan; you can learn more about proper Tolkienian Haradric by typing "Can you show me Suladân in 'Middle-earth: Shadow of War'?" into Ask Jeeves. (I don't use G**gle ever since I saw them running adverts for Kuruharan's traversity.)

- O-A S-P TS
__________________
Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera
Huinesoron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2022, 06:55 PM   #8
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,039
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
O-A S-P TS
Me *trying to follow the Downs in between work*: Osteoarthritis... simulated patient... [struggling a little with the last one] ...tuberous sclerosis???

Clearly then this whole discussion is surrounding the works of Junior Respiratory Therapist. Best known for his publication on... LOsaRTan? C"lotr"imazole? His work on Sildenafil though is known only to much smaller circles.

That's it. I think I'm onto something. That's how I'm gonna be coping with too much caring about this show, from all sides and from myself included. As well as any ridiculousness from the show itself. Any excitement is gonna be "autocorrected" to medication names. Sample run-down of the new and improved trailer:

Eltroxin and Celebrex look up at the sky, demonstrating full neck range of motion. Bromazepam and Aripiprazole hold hands, evidencing good motor function of the upper limb. Mirtazapine and Galantamine peer ominously into an empty blister pack. Norepinephrine... dunno what she does, but she is a prime example of familial short stature. Meeple. Coming to the pharmacy near you this fall, much like the flu shots.

Or, to cycle back to the thread's topic: In the land of Haldol, on the shores of Lumbar, Antiemetics and Prokinetics were debating what to do with Sandoz's growing power...



I'm nuts. Sorry. But also not sorry. This is what happens when brain is overtired. Happy to do more if you'd like! ^.^
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2022, 02:09 PM   #9
Michael Murry
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 83
Michael Murry is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Itaril - Tauriel - Sildenafil - Galadriel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
Me *trying to follow the Downs in between work*:
...
His work on Sildenafil though is known only to much smaller circles.
Good call out on Sildenafil. I had a lot of fun with that one eleven years ago when Peter Jackson set about casting for a "warrior" female elvish love interest for his "Hobbit" films. He thought he needed a fan-fic/Mary-Sue combination Arwen/Éowyn that Tolkien didn't write anything about so he started out with "Itaril" (later abandoned for "Tauriel") which name I thought suggested creative interpretive possibilities latent in the side-effects of prescription drugs:

Quote:
Elvish Erectile Dysfunction

03-08-2011
TheMisfortuneTeller
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: March 2011
Posts 63

The very name of the character sounds like a synthetic drug with numerous debilitating side-effects, something like Sildenafil: a drug first developed to treat angina but, because of its unanticipated side effects, marketed instead as an oral treatment for erectile dysfunction -- notwithstanding "reports of vision loss in people taking PDE5 inhibitors" (Wikipedia).

Since Tolkien's Elves have pretty much given up on Middle-earth and haven't reproduced much in several thousand years, the whole concept of "young" elves who "fall in love" with each other (before catching the last boat to the Undying Lands) sounds too ludicrous to contemplate. Nonetheless, even the ridiculous can inspire poetic -- if not pharmacological -- possibilities. Consider:

Itaril,
What cheesy swill:
A damsel dim and shallow.

Itaril,
Sildenafil:
Viagra for the fallow.

Itaril,
Progammed to kill,
Yet gooey as marshmallow.

Itaril,
An elf-chick thrill,
Synthetic, sick, and hollow.

Itaril,
A bitter pill,
Impossible to swallow.

Michael Murry, "The Misfortune Teller," Copyright © 2011
For my part, since I do not willingly contribute to the Jeff Bezos Amazon TV thing I will leave to other, more masochistic souls, the task of viewing and reporting on this series of "based-on/suggested-by" presentations. Hopefully, some creative poetic interpretations will suggest themselves and I can have some more polemical fun with this stuff.
__________________
"If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic." -- Tweedledee
Michael Murry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2022, 11:20 AM   #10
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,682
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Boots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
If you can call that "Haradric". Carl F. Salo's purported work on that so-called language is a disgrace. Carl, if that's even his real name, should be shot into Anor (I'm using the Westron so you know how much of a scholar I am) alongside Kuruharan; you can learn more about proper Tolkienian Haradric by typing "Can you show me Suladân in 'Middle-earth: Shadow of War'?" into Ask Jeeves. (I don't use G**gle ever since I saw them running adverts for Kuruharan's traversity.)

- O-A S-P TS
The learned reviewer is evidently unaware that deep in the bowels of Marquette University a recent document has been discovered bearing Tolkien's handwriting and the almost illegible title (in pencil) of "On Harad."

In this essay Tolkien extensively sketched out the various languages and cultures of Harad.

We were given exclusive access to this document in the development of the show.
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2022, 01:00 PM   #11
William Cloud Hicklin
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
William Cloud Hicklin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,221
William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Or another opportunity missed, as Steininger points out- why watch The Rings of Power when you could use the time to watch Der Ring des Nibelungen instead?
__________________
The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

Last edited by William Cloud Hicklin; 09-05-2022 at 01:43 PM.
William Cloud Hicklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2022, 03:44 PM   #12
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,682
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Boots

Quote:
Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin View Post
Or another opportunity missed, as Steininger points out- why watch The Rings of Power when you could use the time to watch Der Ring des Nibelungen instead?
Well, there's that too...
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2022, 08:39 AM   #13
Gil-Galad
Psyche of Prince Immortal
 
Gil-Galad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis
Posts: 5,054
Gil-Galad has been trapped in the Barrow!
Send a message via MSN to Gil-Galad
As I make my way through RoP, I have noticed that the characters I have been enjoying the most are the non-canon ones, whereas most of my misgivings has been towards the Canon ones, particularly Galadriel. This has lead me to wish they did a "stories from Middle-earth" style, filling in the gaps in the book story such as what has happened to the men that served Morgoth.
__________________
Love doesn't blow up and get killed.
Gil-Galad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2022, 09:40 AM   #14
Mithadan
Spirit of Mist
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tol Eressea
Posts: 3,170
Mithadan is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Mithadan is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Gil-Galad, good to see you stop by!

I had not thought about it, but I generally tend to agree. I find Galadriel less palatable than, for example the Harfoots. This goes back to someone else's comment that our ability to enjoy RoP may, in part, turn upon whether we can avoid comparing it to what Tolkien actually wrote.
__________________
Beleriand, Beleriand,
the borders of the Elven-land.
Mithadan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2022, 02:54 PM   #15
Rune Son of Bjarne
Odinic Wanderer
 
Rune Son of Bjarne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Under the Raven banner, between tall Odin and white Christ!
Posts: 4,054
Rune Son of Bjarne is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Rune Son of Bjarne is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Rune Son of Bjarne is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Send a message via AIM to Rune Son of Bjarne Send a message via MSN to Rune Son of Bjarne
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil-Galad View Post
As I make my way through RoP, I have noticed that the characters I have been enjoying the most are the non-canon ones, whereas most of my misgivings has been towards the Canon ones, particularly Galadriel. This has lead me to wish they did a "stories from Middle-earth" style, filling in the gaps in the book story such as what has happened to the men that served Morgoth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithadan View Post
Gil-Galad, good to see you stop by!

I had not thought about it, but I generally tend to agree. I find Galadriel less palatable than, for example the Harfoots. This goes back to someone else's comment that our ability to enjoy RoP may, in part, turn upon whether we can avoid comparing it to what Tolkien actually wrote.
See I am a bit torn, I think the actress does an okay job (though Kate Blanchet will always my Galadriel to me), but her story line just annoys me.

The harfoots are a delight, and so far the plot in the Southlands is interesting (though I hope Galadriel's buddy never becomes part of it).

So I guess i agree? I just don't think it is because the characters are canon that I don't enjoy them, it is because the plot and dialogue is substandard.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalaith View Post
Rune is my brother from another mother.

Rune Son of Bjarne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2022, 03:55 PM   #16
Mithadan
Spirit of Mist
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tol Eressea
Posts: 3,170
Mithadan is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Mithadan is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
To clarify, I like Morfydd Clark's performance. And, in a vacuum, I can enjoy the character she portrays if I ignore the fact that she purports to be Galadriel.
__________________
Beleriand, Beleriand,
the borders of the Elven-land.
Mithadan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2022, 09:23 AM   #17
Gil-Galad
Psyche of Prince Immortal
 
Gil-Galad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis
Posts: 5,054
Gil-Galad has been trapped in the Barrow!
Send a message via MSN to Gil-Galad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne View Post
See I am a bit torn, I think the actress does an okay job (though Kate Blanchet will always my Galadriel to me), but her story line just annoys me.

The harfoots are a delight, and so far the plot in the Southlands is interesting (though I hope Galadriel's buddy never becomes part of it).

So I guess i agree? I just don't think it is because the characters are canon that I don't enjoy them, it is because the plot and dialogue is substandard.
Oh I agree on the writing/pacing bringing everything down across the board.

I am trying to see the good through all the bad, because...cause... something something the tempest is in me I guess.
__________________
Love doesn't blow up and get killed.
Gil-Galad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2022, 09:25 AM   #18
Gil-Galad
Psyche of Prince Immortal
 
Gil-Galad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis
Posts: 5,054
Gil-Galad has been trapped in the Barrow!
Send a message via MSN to Gil-Galad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithadan View Post
Gil-Galad, good to see you stop by!

I had not thought about it, but I generally tend to agree. I find Galadriel less palatable than, for example the Harfoots. This goes back to someone else's comment that our ability to enjoy RoP may, in part, turn upon whether we can avoid comparing it to what Tolkien actually wrote.
I feel like I need to defend my namesake in contrast to what we have seen in the show so far

I do recognize, and have told my non-book friends who are watching the show, that my top concerns tend to be canon/lore focused. But I have still been not impressed with the dialogue and pacing of most of the episodes.
__________________
Love doesn't blow up and get killed.
Gil-Galad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2022, 07:19 AM   #19
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,682
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Boots Soo..?

I've not been watching the show, but how is my outline holding up to the real thing?
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2022, 11:19 AM   #20
Gil-Galad
Psyche of Prince Immortal
 
Gil-Galad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis
Posts: 5,054
Gil-Galad has been trapped in the Barrow!
Send a message via MSN to Gil-Galad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuruharan View Post
I've not been watching the show, but how is my outline holding up to the real thing?
The latest episode has mention of "An old Numenorean settlement on the mouth of the Anduin, Pelargir" which is as close to Umbar, or the idea of Umbar, that we have been so far.

They should have hired you to write instead, for all we have seen is nameless villages(Two) in "The Southlands" of less than 100 people.
__________________
Love doesn't blow up and get killed.
Gil-Galad is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:07 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.