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Old 08-15-2002, 02:55 PM   #1
Guildo
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Tolkien Men and Elves

Correct me if im wrong i hear many time in the books things like Aragorn having elvin blood in his veins, the same with the prince Imrahil, is this why Aragorn has such a long life.
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Old 08-15-2002, 03:25 PM   #2
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Tuor, a man, and Idril, an elf, had a child named Eärendil. He wed Elwing (who was part elf, part Maia, and part man) and they had two children, Elrond and Elros.

Elrond was half-elven, and was given the choice...man or elf?

He chose to be an elf, but his brother, Elros, chose to be a man.

Elros was made the first king of Numenor and lived the longest of any man. Elros' line continued down to the fall of Numenor with Ar-Pharazôn attempting to sail to Aman. Elendil came to Middle-earth and ruled the two kingdoms. The line of kings was continued after his fall by Elendil. Elendil's ancestry traces back to Silmarien, the sister of Tar Meneldur, who was king four generations after Elros.

Elendil's son, Isildur, took the throne after his father died in battle with Sauron. Isildur died in the Disaster of Gladden Fields, but his youngest son, Valandil kept the line alive.

Unfinished Tales:

Quote:
Elessar was according to the records of the Dúnedain the descendant in the thirty eighth degree of Elendur's brother Valandil.
Aragorn can thus be traced back through Valandil, Isildur, and Elendil all the way to Elros, who was half-elven.

Or if you got, like, way confused...

Aragorn's ancestry can be traced back to Elros, Elrond's brother, who is half-elven.

[ August 15, 2002: Message edited by: Legalos ]
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Old 08-15-2002, 04:21 PM   #3
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Tolkien

thanks Legolas i just reread apendix A and im getting it
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Old 08-15-2002, 06:11 PM   #4
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Silmaril

Actually, (I don't think you'll find this in the appendix) Aragorn's ancestry can be traced back to Thingol and Melian, through Elros, Elwing, Dior, and Lúthien. So, he's actually got some Maia blood in him, too. Then there's the "long-sundered" half-elven bloodline being reunited with Aragorn and Arwen....Aragorn is Arwen's "sixty-fifth" cousin (or something like that...25 kings + Elendil + 39th in the line of Isildur)
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Old 08-16-2002, 05:19 PM   #5
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "Elven-blood" just like "Man-blood"?
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Old 08-16-2002, 05:26 PM   #6
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As for chemical composition, your guess is as good as mine. But in almost every way, Elvish blood is NOT the same as human blood, if by blood you mean longevity, weakness, etc. For instance, hobbits and men were descimated by the plague yet there is no mention of Elves dying of the plague.
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Old 08-17-2002, 12:34 AM   #7
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I think Elvish blood would be as dissimilar to Human blood as if they were two separate species.
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Old 08-17-2002, 10:21 AM   #8
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No, that is just what I mean. They are not different species, as far as I know. I would like to see some definitive quotes on this if anyone has some.

Men and Elves are dissimilar only in that they have different "gifts," so to speak. Elves have, for example, their lifespan while Men have the gift of death. My point is that while one of Aragorn's ancestors may have been an Elf, he was 100% man regardless.

[ August 17, 2002: Message edited by: onewhitetree ]
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Old 08-17-2002, 11:04 AM   #9
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Yeah, their blood would be the same, as they had the same bodies, but that isn't really what is meant. I can say that I have Italian blood and Irish blood. It's the same kind of blood, it just means that I was made by people in Ireland and by people in Italy. Aragorn was partly made by Elves. A very very small part.
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Old 08-17-2002, 11:59 AM   #10
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Tolkien

Well ORIGINALY by asking if they had Elvin Blood i meant descendats of Elves, after research and much curiosity Aragorn and most of Numenor had Valarian, and Elven Blood(once again by blood i mean heritage and ancsestry) the is how it went Elwe the elven king or ambassador wed Melian the Maia i think she is Valar or Maiar i need to read this part again in the Silmarillion, But Elwe and Melian where the Great great grand parents if you will of Elrond and Elros. Elros is pretty much the Father of all Numenorians thus giving them long long life. NOW Some Numenorians actualy went to Valinor gaining Imortality, Becoming the Dark Numenorians, im not positive if anyother Men ever went to Valinor besides the Dark Numenorians. I believe the Mouth of Sauron who we see in TROTK is Ar-Pharazon the first man to step foot in Valinor and becoming Dark Numenorians.
Please dont flaim at me if im wrong, alot of what i have said is my speculation so far i still have alot of reading to do.
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Old 08-17-2002, 12:05 PM   #11
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Tolkien

Sorry i left our the fact stated above that that Arwen and Aragorn are related. Technicaly Elrond is Aragorn's Great great great great great etc etc etc.......... Uncle. thus technicaly being the Uncle to all Numenorians. which makes Arwen something like the First Cousin of Numenor (please excuse my Lineage Jargan)
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Old 08-17-2002, 01:39 PM   #12
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Sorry Guildo, but I do think you're wrong about the Black Numenorians. The Numenorians who set foot on Valinor were instantly killed (buried under a mountain or something to that effect). The Black Numenorians were regular Numenorians who had fallen under the influence of Sauron and had therefore become evil. I think that it is suspected that the Mouth of Sauron was a Black Numenorian, but I don't know if it's fact. Think that's about all.

Edit: I don't think that Men and Elves have the same bodies, just different gifts. I think Elves are usually a little taller and have different body characteristics. I mean, if they had the same bodies, how could Elves walk on top of snow? Well, I'm sure someone else can explain this better.

[ August 17, 2002: Message edited by: Ereinion ]
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Old 08-17-2002, 04:06 PM   #13
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The elven blood in Elro's veins was not shared by the othe Numenoreans, although he was their king.
Quote:
To the Fathers of men of the three faithful houses rich reward also was given. Eonwe came among them and taught them; and they were given wisdom and power and life more enduring than any others of mortal race have possessed. A land was made for hte Edain to swell in, neither part of middle earth nor of Valinor, for it was sundered from either by a wide sea, yet it was nearer to Valinor.
The Edain was the name given to those men, ( there were three distinct families, or houses, which I take to be rather like clans), who had remained faithful to the Valar and had fought with their elven friends in the last battle when Morgoth was overthrown.
Of them all, only Elros and his direct descendants had elven blood.
Aragorn being a descendant through Elendil etc.

[ August 17, 2002: Message edited by: Ravenna ]
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Old 08-17-2002, 04:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
I don't think that Men and Elves have the same bodies, just different gifts. I think Elves are usually a little taller and have different body characteristics. I mean, if they had the same bodies, how could Elves walk on top of snow?
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Old 08-17-2002, 06:19 PM   #15
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Tolkien

Under Elros in the Family trees lies all the Kings of Numenor including Aragorn this is where i speculated about Elros being the father of all Numenorians.

and thanks for the input about the Black Numenorians, and what about Ar-Pharazon being the Mouth of Sauron didnt Arpharazon capture Sauron, and Sauron slowly over took Ar-Pharazon and he became Saurons servant.
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Old 08-17-2002, 11:20 PM   #16
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Men and elves have the same blood...they produce fertile offspring, therefore they are not two different species.
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Old 11-27-2002, 03:16 PM   #17
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I think that you could consider, from the blood perspective, like elves are Chinese and Men are Caucasion. The blood might be the same, but there are obvious physical differences. Just a thought. Also, Prince Imrahil I believe had numenorean "blood" in him, more so that in Boromir.
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Old 11-27-2002, 04:58 PM   #18
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Quote:
Men and elves have the same blood...they produce fertile offspring, therefore they are not two different species
Definitive proof they are the same physical species, or at any rate very close genetically.

The difference was not in hroa but in fea, yes?

[ November 27, 2002: Message edited by: Keneldil the Polka-dot ]
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