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Old 07-22-2014, 10:54 AM   #1
Alfirin
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How Saruon could have won the Dwaves to his side; my crackpot theory

Hi,

It's really raw (and probably has some holes in it) but here is a scenario I can sort of imagine for Sauron SUCESSFULLY bringing the Dwaves under his control.

If I had to guess as to what Sauron's ultimate ideal plan for Dwarven Domination was, I imagine he was probably shooting for something along the lines of waht he did in Numeor. This is especially true later, once he realized the rings weren't working so well, and doubly so in the Third Age, when he was short of spare rings and was trying to get the dwarves on his side via guile.
Chief of the "gods" of the Dwarves is Mahal the Maker i.e. Aule. As long as the dwaves believe in Mahal the way they do, any plan of Sauron to be seen as god by them is probably going to go nowhere. What Sauron CAN do and I think he might have been trying for is to be seen as Mahal's chosen representative on earth, and the inheritor of his power. He is (or was) a servant of Aule originally; play that up and he might be able to make some dwarves see him as the Jesus to Aule's God. The seven rings were presumably orginally planned to go to the head of each house (the fact that there are/Sauron chose seven rings to be dwarf rings (the difference depends on whether seven rings were designed for the dwaves, as per the song, or Sauron took sixteen as yet unaligned rings when he sacked Eregion and later decided that seven should go to the dwarves and nine to men later) and seven fathers/houses of dwarves is too big a coincidence in my book) as tokens of favor between the dwaves and thier "God on earth" ("with these rings, I bind thee and thy houses to thy god.")
Later, come the third age when 1. Sauroin would have figured out the rings didn't work as well as they should have on Dwaves and 2. four of the Dwaven rings had actually melted (I assume that, somehow since Sauron has a connection to all the rings, he would have felt/found out about the other rings destruction (since once he got Thrain's he doesn't appear to have kept looking, as if he KNEW those were all there were left.) He might have had to rely more on guile (especially since, even if his "join me and I'll give you the three elven rings (plus presumably, the three dwaven he reclaimed, since they did little good for him being on his hands) was at all true (which is presunably would not be as why would Sauron dispense the rings again if he KNEW they didn't work on dwarves. And if the intention was to imply he could make and give them new rings, why would he specify the three elven ones, implying that the number was limited) it would not take a genius to realize that that was fwer rings than before, so someone would be left out. I actually wonder if at this point Sauron might have considered using Saruman as a liason to the dwarves, assuming he prove himself more trustworthy than he proved to be (or Sauron could break/enslave him to a point where he could be trusted.). As a fellow Maiar of Aule, the dwaves might offer him extra respect too (Tecnically this probably violates the Ishari orders, since I assume they are not supposed to admit they are Maiar in public either, but a Saruman that was Sauron's true slave would probably not be much trobled by this). Maybe if Saroun hoped to be the Dwaves Chrsit, he might have set up Saruman as his Pope, and led the dwaves, master craftsman, to forge and smelt for him and his armies alone.
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Old 07-22-2014, 12:40 PM   #2
Inziladun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfirin View Post
If I had to guess as to what Sauron's ultimate ideal plan for Dwarven Domination was, I imagine he was probably shooting for something along the lines of waht he did in Numeor. This is especially true later, once he realized the rings weren't working so well, and doubly so in the Third Age, when he was short of spare rings and was trying to get the dwarves on his side via guile.
In The Silmarillion, Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, Sauron's motive for meting out the Great Rings he had recovered are given, if rather vaguely.

Quote:
But Sauron gathered into his hands all the remaining Rings of Power; and he dealt them out to the other peoples of Middle-earth, hoping thus to bring under his sway all all those that desired secret power beyond the measure of their kind.
His hope was to dominate the keepers of those rings, but to what end? The desire of "secret" power may be notable, in that the keepers of the rings were perhaps not intended to reveal to any that they possessed them. If that was the case, was Sauron looking for a general civil discord arising from the users of the rings evil deeds? Was he wanting to make them all wraiths to lead the people over which they had influence to follow Sauron? I think something along those lines may have been at the heart with the Nine, especially with the hunger for immortality Sauron had used to good effect among the Númenóreans.

The Dwarves would not have been susceptible to that line, so maybe it was Sauron who began the idea in their minds that the Seven would "breed gold", as an inducement to get them to accept them. I don't see how an association with Mahal fits in there, and in any case, one might think that survivors of Eregion might have warned the Moria dwarves of Sauron's evil, as Moria had attacked Sauron's forces after the sack of the House of the Mirdain (Unfinished Tales, The History of Galadriel and Celeborn). That might fit with the apparent belief of the Dwarves that the ring possessed by Durin in Moria was given to him by the Elves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfirin View Post
The seven rings were presumably orginally planned to go to the head of each house (the fact that there are/Sauron chose seven rings to be dwarf rings (the difference depends on whether seven rings were designed for the dwaves, as per the song, or Sauron took sixteen as yet unaligned rings when he sacked Eregion and later decided that seven should go to the dwarves and nine to men later) and seven fathers/houses of dwarves is too big a coincidence in my book) as tokens of favor between the dwaves and thier "God on earth" ("with these rings, I bind thee and thy houses to thy god.")
The Silmarillion goes on to say:

Quote:
Seven Rings he gave to the Dwarves; but to Men he gave nine, for Men for Men proved in this matter as in others the readiest to his will.
I read that as saying the Dwarves ended up with Seven, because Sauron wanted more for Men.
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