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Old 07-16-2014, 06:50 PM   #1
Kuruharan
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Question What would they do?

So, while Isildur was fighting his final battle he has a conversation with his son Elendur in which he says referring to the Ring:

Quote:
My pride has fallen. It should go to the Keepers of the Three.
-Disaster of the Gladden Fields
My question is, what would the Three Keepers have done with the Ring once they had it? Would they have sent it immediately to Mount Doom to be destroyed or would they have held on to the Ring and tried to guard it, fearing what would happen to the works of the Three if the One were destroyed?
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Old 07-16-2014, 07:16 PM   #2
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The One corrupts. Look what it did to Saruman and he did not even lay eyes on it. By the time of the War of the Ring it appears that Galadriel at least had accepted that it had to be destroyed even if doing so resulted in the possible breaking of the power of the Three. I do not think they were quite sure if the Three would lose their powers had the One been destroyed. We know that two of the three keepers of the Three would have it destroyed at least at that moment when Sauron was cast down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silmarillion; Of the Rings and Power and the Third Age
Isildur would not surrender it to Elrond and Círdan who stood by. They couselled him to cast it into the fire of Orodruin nigh at hand, in which it had been forged, so that it should perish, and the power of Sauron be forever diminished
At the Council of Elrond, Elrond told them that Isildur would not heed their advice. So I'd have to say maybe two of the three would have had it destroyed. I'm not sure about Galadriel. It seems she came to her conclusion when she met Frodo. Elrond said is was a danger to all. So I'd think he would not have it protected or hidden, but rather destroyed as we can see he and Círdan both sought for.
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Old 07-17-2014, 07:45 AM   #3
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The Ring with Galadriel would have been interesting. Eventually might
have been a rather nasty family spat between Galadriel and Celeborn
over the Ring. Rather tempting for them...Sauron defeated and Middle
Earth way more open to molding and shaping by elves than when
Morgoth dominated Beleriand. Centuries in which there would be
relatively weak opposition (except perhaps by dwarves and weakened
Arnor and Gondor).
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Old 07-17-2014, 08:00 AM   #4
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We have to consider that the keepers did not use their Rings until Sauron was cast down. Therefore they would not have any fear about works done with the Three - there simply were no such works at that time.

I share the doubts about Galadriel, but I think that anybody should be doubted in that situation. It is easy to advice Isildur to destrory the One Ring. But it is much harder to do it yourself. I think Tolkien made clear in his letters that no body could have willingly destroyed the Ring out of his free will.

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Old 07-17-2014, 08:08 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Findegil View Post
I share the doubts about Galadriel, but I think that anybody should be doubted in that situation. It is easy to advice Isildur to destrory the One Ring. But it is much harder to do it yourself. I think Tolkien made clear in his letters that no body could have willingly destroyed the Ring out of his free will.
At the time Isildur stood in a position to destroy the Ring, it was at its maximum potency, having just been taken from its master's hand. I do not think it would have been possible for any of those present to have willfully harmed it. Now if Elrond had simply knocked out Isildur and thrown him into the Sammath Naur with the Ring, that's a crisis averted.

If the Keepers of the Three had let some time pass, allowing Sauron's influence to lessen, it might have been more of a possibility to gather the will to destroy the Ring, but then it would have been able to gnaw at the reason of whomever guarded it over time. So maybe it was for the best after all that the Ring was lost to the Wise after Isildur's fall.
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Old 07-17-2014, 08:30 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Findegil View Post
We have to consider that the keepers did not use their Rings until Sauron was cast down. Therefore they would not have any fear about works done with the Three - there simply were no such works at that time.
That is an excellent point that I had forgotten.

Quote:
I share the doubts about Galadriel, but I think that anybody should be doubted in that situation. It is easy to advice Isildur to destrory the One Ring. But it is much harder to do it yourself. I think Tolkien made clear in his letters that no body could have willingly destroyed the Ring out of his free will.
It is an interesting situation to ponder. Say Elrond was the one to defeat Sauron at the final battle and he came into possession of the Ring. I think he might have been able to destroy it. Círdan too, perhaps, although we know less about his personality. Galadriel, I agree would have been dicey.

As I think she would have been dicey if Isildur had survived the Gladden Fields and surrendered the Ring to Elrond afterwards. I see her as being the most likely to want to try to keep the Ring. I think Elrond would have attempted to send the Ring back to Mount Doom as he indeed did later on.

But this brings us back to the conundrum of the Bearer of the Ring being in long possession of the Ring going back to Mount Doom. I don't think anybody who had the Ring in their possession for an extended period would have been able to destroy it.

It is a paradox that one who has just acquired the Ring might be the most likely to be able to destroy it, but the only time that happened with a possibility of immediate destruction the power of Sauron was still quite strong and instantly corrupted Isildur's mind.

It is also an interesting question of if Isildur survived and went to Rivendell if he could have surrendered the Ring as was his intention.

Only Bilbo was ever able to do that.
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Old 07-17-2014, 09:34 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belegorn View Post


At the Council of Elrond, Elrond told them that Isildur would not heed their advice.
Then again, maybe that was their advice because as bad as they knew "Destroy the Ring!" would sound to Isildur, "Give it to one of us, small-brained mortal, the adults here will come up with a good use for it." was -not- going to fly.

Small off-topic: The speculation about Galadriel makes me curious, where was she during the Last Alliance and at Sauron's defeat? Anyone know?
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Old 07-17-2014, 09:35 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Kuruharan View Post

Only Bilbo was ever able to do that.
And Sam.
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:53 AM   #9
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I do not know that the Three were never used initially after they were made, or not worn. In the Silmarillion it is said

Quote:
Originally Posted by Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, p. 357
As soon as Sauron set the One Ring upon his finger they were aware of him; and they knew him, and perceived that he would be master of them, and of all that they wrought. Then in anger and fear they took off their rings. [...] they were given into the hands of the Wise who concealed them and never again used them openly while Sauron kept the Ruling Ring.
Let us keep in mind the time period when the Rings were made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RotK; Tale of the Years; The Second Age
c. 1590 The Three Rings are completed in Eregion.
c. 1600 Sauron forges the One Ring in Orodruin. He completes the Barad-dűr. Celebrimbor perceives the designs of Sauron.
There is about a 10 year span where the Elves could wear and make use of the Rings and it appears from the first quote that I've given that this is probably what they did until they perceived Sauron.

Galadriel herself went to Middle-earth during the rebellion because she "had dreams of far lands and dominions that might be her own to order as she would without tutelage." [UT, The History of Galadriel and Celeborn] Then as I mentioned before when Galadriel finally met Frodo this may have been when she come to her concluding decision about the One.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unfinished Tales; The History of Galadriel and Celeborn
It was not until two long ages more had passed , when at last all that she had desired in her youth came to her hand, the Ring of Power and the dominion of Middle-earth of which she had dreamed, that her wisdom was full grown and she rejected it
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Old 07-17-2014, 02:03 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by IxnaY AintsaY View Post
And Sam.
True.

Which also reinforces the point about limited direct exposure to the Ring making it easier to willingly discard it.
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:09 PM   #11
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I don't think this has much to do with Frodo discarding the Ring, but he has offered to give it up to others and when Tom asked to see it "Frodo, to his own astonishment, drew out the chain from his pocket, and unfastening the Ring handed it at once to Tom." [FotR, Bk. 1, ch. 7, p. 170]

Quote:
Originally Posted by FotR, Bk 2., ch. 7, p. 431
I will give you the One Ring, if you ask for it.
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Old 07-19-2014, 07:18 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Belegorn View Post
I don't think this has much to do with Frodo discarding the Ring, but he has offered to give it up to others and when Tom asked to see it "Frodo, to his own astonishment, drew out the chain from his pocket, and unfastening the Ring handed it at once to Tom."
Yes, I think that incident was more to do with Tom's status as "Master" at that particular place. Whatever the secret of Bombadil's power, Frodo's (and the Ring's) will was not strong enough to have any chance of defying him.
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