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Old 01-20-2004, 05:54 PM   #1
Arwen Evenstar
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Ring The Morgul Blade shattering???

Weathertop has to be one of my favorite scenes in The Fellowship of the Ring, but I`ve always wondered, why dose the morgul blade shatter? I figured it was made to do that, and that the Nazgul was supposed to kinda "keep it inside of Frodo" until it shattered. The pieces would then strike his heart. I don`t know. What are your ideas?
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Old 01-20-2004, 05:56 PM   #2
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Sting

That happened in the novel too. Yes, I believe the idea was that the blade was supposed to break off and leave a fragment to reach his heart.
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Old 01-20-2004, 07:19 PM   #3
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I agree, it also shatters on the Naz Gul when Pipin, I think stabs it in the leg....
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Old 01-20-2004, 08:09 PM   #4
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One of two reasons, I believe. I'm sure that some older, wiser Barrowdowner will come along and confirm with a quote (probably the first explanation).<P>Either those types of weapons (Morgul-blades as they are called) will not suffer the touch of a pure being such as an elf or a powerful Dúnadan, hence the fact that it dissolves (in the book and the movie) only <B>after</B> Aragorn picks it up.<P>Or possibly, its work done, the <B>rest</B> of the blade disappeared. The fragment embedded in Frodo did <B>not</B> however. It remained inside him, attempting to work its way to his heart, where it would completely transform him into a lesser wraith, subservient to the Nazgűl. The fragment remained in the wound until removed by Elrond in Rivendell (and you thought Hugo Weaving was useless!) <P>Incidentally, you might well wonder why the Witch-King didn't just stab Frodo in the heart instead of the shoulder and do his job a lot quicker. In the <B>book</B>, Frodo lunges forward to attack, and the knife-stroke goes astray, hitting him only in the shoulder. It is at this moment that Strider reappears and Witchy doesn't get a second chance. The lesson learned is that Frodo, by fighting back, got off much lighter than he would have otherwise. In the <B>movie</B>, the Witch-King is not resisted by Frodo, and has the leisure to stab him wherever he wants. The fact that he doesn't plunge his knife straight into Frodo's heart makes absolutely no sense. Just thought I'd mention that.
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Old 01-21-2004, 06:36 AM   #5
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Sting

Those movies eh? <P>Its not like people actually consider intricate plot details anyway...
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Old 01-21-2004, 06:12 PM   #6
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Sting

Yes, I thought of that too, doug*platypus, but wasn`t entirely sure. But in the book, it was Frodo`s sword that he got from the Barrow-Downs that shattered after "slicing" the Nazgul, wasn`t it?
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Old 01-21-2004, 06:59 PM   #7
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Sting

He didn't exactly slice the Nazgul, he tried to stab him in the foot, while uttering the name of "Elbereth," and it was the name of the Vala that "wounded" Witchy more. <P>The moviemakers have been notorious for leaving things like that out. It's really of no use to analyze the events in the movies with an analytical bent of mind. It just won't work. <P>I think that the whole idea of having a fragment of the blade break off and stay inside Frodo was a brilliant idea on Tolkien's part. Think about it. The logistics of capturing Frodo and dragging him all the way back to Mordor just wouldn't have worked out. With the fragment inside Frodo, it is as if a little "outcropping" of Sauron himself, is inside Frodo. Once it gets to his heart, he will succumb to the malice of the Dark Lord. It is a much more convenient thing to do.
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Old 01-22-2004, 12:58 PM   #8
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Sting

I wonder if Tolkien's original idea was to have the Riders capture Frodo at Weathertop and (I don't really wonder this by the way, I'm just being silly) write instead about a hectic race to Mordor, with Gandalf chasing Witchy.<P>Hmm. Sounds like a Mirth topic. No, all I wanted to do was agree with Finwe that Tolkien's idea was wondrous. As for the movies and the things they miss out, its all just a bit of fun so people like us can complain about it on the internet. It tends to keep me occupied for a few moments each day!
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Old 01-23-2004, 10:21 PM   #9
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Tolkien

Yes, I think Tolkien was either mad or brilliant. Isn`t it remarkable how often those 2 traits coincide?
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Old 01-29-2004, 05:28 AM   #10
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Eomer,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I wonder if Tolkien's original idea was to have the Riders capture Frodo at Weathertop and (I don't really wonder this by the way, I'm just being silly) write instead about a hectic race to Mordor, with Gandalf chasing Witchy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No, I looked in Return of the Shadow and the attack on weathertop was pretty much the same in all versions of Tolkien's work. But Gandalf was originally held up not by Saruman, but by the 'Giant Treebeard in Fangorn Forest'.<P>Apologies if I'm teaching my grandmother to suck eggs...........
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Old 01-29-2004, 06:50 AM   #11
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Sting

I wasn't sure, when I first saw this and read that passage, whether the blade was sort of detatching itself with that fragment in Frodo, or dissolving because someone other than the Witch-King picked it up. I thought it was the latter, because if it were the former, the blade would've disintegrated an instant after Frodo was stabbed.
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Old 01-29-2004, 10:40 AM   #12
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Sting

It's alright Essex, I was just being silly. <P>But I am certainly glad that he changed Treebeard to what we all know him as.
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Old 01-30-2004, 02:33 PM   #13
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Yes, I think Tolkein was either mad or brilliant. Isn't it remarkable how often those two traits coincide? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Interesting think that up all by yourself, or did a famous pirate whisper that in your ear
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Old 01-30-2004, 02:52 PM   #14
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Yes, I think Tolkein was either mad or brilliant. Isn't it remarkable how often those two traits coincide? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Too true. A fameous quote from a fameous phylosopher(sp?) states that there is a very thin line between geneus and insanety, since geneuses always lack on a certain point. Most of the time it is social skills. Which can not be said of the professor with all due respect to his friends.<P>About the knife. Let's continue being silly for a second. The witchking was made by the design of Sauron and a "smaller version" of Sauron like Frodo would have been to the witchkings. Couldn't it be that the knife dissapeared for the same reason that the ring lost his markings when taken from Sauron's hand? The ring missed the heat of Sauron's hand, then didn't the knife miss the evil from witchy's hand? Since witchy is a lower version of Sauron?<P>Another thing, Sauron-> witchy wraith-> Frodo wraith. Could Frodo, if he changed, make little wraiths of his own bent to his will? That could make a nice pickorder. <P>~Potatothan<P>P.S. Philosophing this way is fun isn't it?
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Old 02-06-2004, 03:11 PM   #15
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i think it was meant to shatter so that the poison on the blade would stay inside Frodo's body.
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Old 02-07-2004, 08:44 AM   #16
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Tolkien

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Another thing, Sauron-> witchy wraith-> Frodo wraith. Could Frodo, if he changed, make little wraiths of his own bent to his will? That could make a nice pickorder.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>LOL, Now that is something for Mirth. He could have all of the Shire as his little wraiths. <P>That would work of course if he wouldn't have been taken straight to Sauron and totured till the end of his days.....
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