The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-26-2001, 09:35 PM   #1
onewhitetree
Seeker of Syntax
 
onewhitetree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Scene of the Crime
Posts: 273
onewhitetree has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to onewhitetree
Sting Ring Names

Why do the Elven Rings have names and none of the others do?
__________________
onewhitetree (also known as Kate)

Well, I'M BACK.
onewhitetree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2001, 09:42 PM   #2
Orald
Shadow of Malice
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: right behind you
Posts: 843
Orald has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Orald Send a message via Yahoo to Orald
Sting

I can't wait for this one.

(shivers with anticipation)
Orald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2001, 10:02 PM   #3
red
Spirit of Mischief
 
red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Land of the free and home of the brave
Posts: 368
red has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Elves rule, mortals drool.

-rťd
__________________
"Cats are like greatness: Some people are born into cat-loving families, some achieve cats, and some have cats thrust upon them." -William H. A. Carr
red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2001, 10:04 PM   #4
onewhitetree
Seeker of Syntax
 
onewhitetree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Scene of the Crime
Posts: 273
onewhitetree has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to onewhitetree
Sting

:@

It's a pity that isn't a proper smiley.

[ November 26, 2001: Message edited by: onewhitetree ]
__________________
onewhitetree (also known as Kate)

Well, I'M BACK.
onewhitetree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2001, 10:42 PM   #5
Marileangorifurnimaluim
Eerie Forest Spectre
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Buried in scrolls of fanfiction
Posts: 798
Marileangorifurnimaluim has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

They do, but you have to ask the last living authority, namely Sauron. He's been unavailable since the third age, left no forwarding address. The Nazgul probably knew the name of theirs too. Isn't that just like dwarves to keep such information secret?
__________________
Deserves death! I daresay he does... And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them?
Marileangorifurnimaluim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2001, 11:10 PM   #6
Elrian
Eldar Spirit of Truth
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE
Posts: 794
Elrian has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

The 7 were: sleepy, sneezy, dopey, doc, happy, bashful,and grumpy [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
__________________
*~*Call me a relic, call me what you will.
Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill.
That old whine ain't got no soul.
I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.*~*
Elrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2001, 12:57 AM   #7
obloquy
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
obloquy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: WA
Posts: 935
obloquy has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to obloquy
Sting

Hah! Nice, Elrian. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
obloquy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2001, 03:24 AM   #8
Marileangorifurnimaluim
Eerie Forest Spectre
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Buried in scrolls of fanfiction
Posts: 798
Marileangorifurnimaluim has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

HAH! (raucous laughter) I guess they had good reason to keep it secret! Makes you wonder what the one was called.

--Maril

[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: Marileangorifurnimaluim ]
__________________
Deserves death! I daresay he does... And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them?
Marileangorifurnimaluim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2001, 07:41 AM   #9
SharkŻ
Hungry Ghoul
 
SharkŻ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,721
SharkŻ has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Two main possibilities seem likely, either the other Rings had names, and we only do not know them, or they never had any. To further analyze this dichotomy, both the processes of name generating and traditioning in general, and in Middle-Earth in especial, and the nature of the Rings have to be considered.

The latter may make the assumption seem likely that the Rings never had names. Apart from the Three, which in turn had names, the other 16 plus 1 Rings were all forged with the influential aid of Sauron. Therefore, it may be the case that the Elves would have never given such creations names of their own; for with nomenclature, there is always connected an underlying power in Middle-Earth, where names are more than ‘but sound and smoke’, and in turn can attribute a fate to people and items. On the other hand, the Rings could have had names, but these were never used by the Elves for the very same reason, or the Elves never heard of the names their dwarven and human bearers, or the Dark Lord himself – which is unlikely though - may have given them. Or we simply do not have the record in which their names are given, and in the Red Book their names are avoided.

Which leads us to the point that the Rings may have had names that were never traditioned. Dwarves were very peculiar about names, their belief considered names to be of even greater importance than other people’s; as we all know, they never told their real names to any outsider. This may have been the case with the Seven Rings of the dwarves -- they had inner names, but only to those who possessed them or were near the bearers.
With the mortal Rings, things are a bit different, since, unlike the dwarves, the men who wielded the Rings eventually totally fell to the will of Sauron and became the NazgŻl. While it is not only unlikely that a NazgŻl would even bother to name the Ring he was given (even if he still had it, and possessed yet the reason to do so), it is likewise not probable that names which may have been given to the Nine Rings before the corruption of the nine bearers would have been traditioned.

As for the One Ring itself, I personally doubt that even its creator ever gave it a name. Why would he have had to, anyway; Sauron more likely viewed the Ring as an integral part of himself, not as an independent physically existing item. If the Ring had had a name, we can assume that it was never used, even if it were known, but that instead the euphemism ‘One Ring’ was used in much the same way Sauron was always spoken of only as the ‘Dark Lord’ or ‘The Enemy’ by all save the most powerful.
When it comes to the Three Rings, one could speculate that their names never really were meant as such; or that at least these three names were not made up with this intention, i.e. that it rather was the same case as often in nomenclature, that yet unnamed things slowly take a name which is in fact only a description of the item. This is possible for all three Elven Rings. Vilya was the ring of air, Nenya was the ring of water, Narya the ring of fire, and their names mean nothing else. We can assume Celebrimbor never referred to them by anything else but the description ‘ring of fire (… )’, which in his Quenya tongue may have been ‘Narya (… )’; and only over the course of ages the description became a name of its own. Since we can also assume that the Nine and the Seven did not have such very special traits as the Three, it may also have been superfluos, if at all possible, to give them individual names. The dwarven Rings may have been called ‘rings of gold’, but if all Seven can be, and are called that, individual names will not develop from that description.

So, to answer the question at last, whether the other Ring had names, one can say: maybe, but we do not know them for some reason, and on the other hand it seems very likely that they never had names anyway.

[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: Sharku ]
SharkŻ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2001, 11:59 AM   #10
Mister Underhill
Dread Horseman
 
Mister Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Behind you!
Posts: 2,745
Mister Underhill has been trapped in the Barrow!
Silmaril

You were warned, Kate. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
Mister Underhill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2001, 01:50 PM   #11
onewhitetree
Seeker of Syntax
 
onewhitetree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Scene of the Crime
Posts: 273
onewhitetree has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to onewhitetree
Sting

So I was, Underhill, so I was.

It all makes sense to me now...I have seen the light of ring nomenclature, and Sharku is the bearer.

°Muchas gracias!

edit: This is my 200th post! Do I get a prize?! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: onewhitetree ]
__________________
onewhitetree (also known as Kate)

Well, I'M BACK.
onewhitetree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2001, 02:54 PM   #12
SharkŻ
Hungry Ghoul
 
SharkŻ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,721
SharkŻ has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

To the Poster of the Week award, it is a long way, Kate. Maybe when we have a 'highest percentage of off-topic posts' or 'least posts in relation to membership time' award [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
SharkŻ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2001, 09:31 PM   #13
onewhitetree
Seeker of Syntax
 
onewhitetree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Scene of the Crime
Posts: 273
onewhitetree has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to onewhitetree
1420!

LOL...ahhh, you make me laugh. Here's to one more totally unnecessary post! Many happy returns!
__________________
onewhitetree (also known as Kate)

Well, I'M BACK.
onewhitetree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2001, 11:42 PM   #14
Marileangorifurnimaluim
Eerie Forest Spectre
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Buried in scrolls of fanfiction
Posts: 798
Marileangorifurnimaluim has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

Don't take it ill, *tree, as they say, obviously it's for the most loquacious, forgetful that this is the sort they will soon pray will pleeeaze shut up.. visualizing rags stuffed in mouths, hands tied to backs of chairs...
__________________
Deserves death! I daresay he does... And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them?
Marileangorifurnimaluim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2001, 04:03 PM   #15
onewhitetree
Seeker of Syntax
 
onewhitetree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Scene of the Crime
Posts: 273
onewhitetree has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to onewhitetree
Sting

Well, all I really wanted was a Barrow-Cookie. I got one for my 100th post! Hmph.
__________________
onewhitetree (also known as Kate)

Well, I'M BACK.
onewhitetree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2001, 04:27 PM   #16
Mister Underhill
Dread Horseman
 
Mister Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Behind you!
Posts: 2,745
Mister Underhill has been trapped in the Barrow!
Thumbs up

*Underhill awards Kate a dusty Barrow Cookie and an eerily glowing green mug of chilled Barrow Milk in honor of her two hundreth*

At this pace, you should make 300 by 2005!
Mister Underhill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2001, 08:22 PM   #17
onewhitetree
Seeker of Syntax
 
onewhitetree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Scene of the Crime
Posts: 273
onewhitetree has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to onewhitetree
Sting

Thank you, thank you, oh generous hobbit!
__________________
onewhitetree (also known as Kate)

Well, I'M BACK.
onewhitetree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2001, 08:47 PM   #18
Mister Underhill
Dread Horseman
 
Mister Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Behind you!
Posts: 2,745
Mister Underhill has been trapped in the Barrow!
The Eye

You might want to wait to thank me until after you've eaten.
Mister Underhill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2001, 10:29 PM   #19
onewhitetree
Seeker of Syntax
 
onewhitetree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Scene of the Crime
Posts: 273
onewhitetree has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to onewhitetree
Sting

It's the thought that counts, that what I always say. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Trusting that your thoughts all wish me the very best, that is.
__________________
onewhitetree (also known as Kate)

Well, I'M BACK.
onewhitetree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2001, 09:11 AM   #20
Mister Underhill
Dread Horseman
 
Mister Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Behind you!
Posts: 2,745
Mister Underhill has been trapped in the Barrow!
Silmaril

I would never dream of wishing you anything but the best, Kate -- it's just that the eerie green Barrow-milk has been known to upset the stomachs of the lactose and/or ectoplasm intolerant. Barrow-treats are not renowned for their farm-freshness, I'm afraid...
Mister Underhill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2001, 09:05 PM   #21
Witch King of Angmar
Animated Skeleton
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Angmar; Mordor; I follow the will of Sauron
Posts: 26
Witch King of Angmar has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Its no fair! I WANTA BARROW-COOKIE! And some Barrow-Milk to please.
__________________
'The Black Rider flung back his hood, and behold! he had a kingly crown; and yet upon no head visible was it set. The red fires shone between it and the mantled shoulders vast and dark.'

Witch King of Angmar as described at the Siege of Gondor
Witch King of Angmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2001, 11:07 PM   #22
Elrian
Eldar Spirit of Truth
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE
Posts: 794
Elrian has just left Hobbiton.
1420!

Hey I never got a Barrow cookie either [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]
__________________
*~*Call me a relic, call me what you will.
Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill.
That old whine ain't got no soul.
I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.*~*
Elrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2001, 03:18 AM   #23
Marileangorifurnimaluim
Eerie Forest Spectre
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Buried in scrolls of fanfiction
Posts: 798
Marileangorifurnimaluim has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

Oh dear, this has caused so much trouble, Mister Underhill and Sharku will be up all night, digging up barrow-cookies... skimming the green fuzz off of barrow-milk...
__________________
Deserves death! I daresay he does... And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them?
Marileangorifurnimaluim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2001, 01:34 PM   #24
onewhitetree
Seeker of Syntax
 
onewhitetree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Scene of the Crime
Posts: 273
onewhitetree has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to onewhitetree
Sting

Sorry guys, I'm just special. You'll have to dig your own food.
__________________
onewhitetree (also known as Kate)

Well, I'M BACK.
onewhitetree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2001, 05:31 PM   #25
Elrian
Eldar Spirit of Truth
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE
Posts: 794
Elrian has just left Hobbiton.
A certain pet cat, would make a great companion for me! [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

So where's my cookie
[img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
__________________
*~*Call me a relic, call me what you will.
Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill.
That old whine ain't got no soul.
I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.*~*
Elrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2001, 12:37 AM   #26
Mister Underhill
Dread Horseman
 
Mister Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Behind you!
Posts: 2,745
Mister Underhill has been trapped in the Barrow!
Sting

Quote:
Originally posted by Witch King of Angmar:
<STRONG>Its no fair! I WANTA BARROW-COOKIE! And some Barrow-Milk to please.</STRONG>
Never thought I'd un-live to see the Witch-King throw a temper-tantrum, much less ask please.
Mister Underhill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2001, 02:38 AM   #27
Elrian
Eldar Spirit of Truth
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE
Posts: 794
Elrian has just left Hobbiton.
Spooky and I are are enjoying a nice evening of haunting. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

[ December 03, 2001: Message edited by: Elrian ]
__________________
*~*Call me a relic, call me what you will.
Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill.
That old whine ain't got no soul.
I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.*~*
Elrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2002, 10:32 PM   #28
NazgŻl Queen
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 75
NazgŻl Queen has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

<center><font color="red">*Smiles sweetly*
Can I please have a barrow-cookie and milk?
__________________
- The NazgŻl they were; the Ringwraiths, the Enemy's most terribly servants; darkness went with them and they cried with the voices of death -
NazgŻl Queen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2002, 09:02 AM   #29
Elrian
Eldar Spirit of Truth
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE
Posts: 794
Elrian has just left Hobbiton.
1420!

Rumor has it, that's a chat room treat, but if you happen to dig some up somewhere keep them secret and keep them safe or the cookie monsters (those lemba's thieves)will get them. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]
__________________
*~*Call me a relic, call me what you will.
Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill.
That old whine ain't got no soul.
I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.*~*
Elrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2002, 12:04 PM   #30
Ešrendil
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Valinor (RtL: 1220 miles)
Posts: 562
Ešrendil has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Iīll keep my mouth shut about my barrow-cookies then... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
Er...ooops!
__________________
Jag ska aldrig gŲra dig illa. Inte igen. Ňtminstone inte mycket, Śtminstone inte hŚrt. Kommer du ihŚg? DŚ vi fortfarande kunde skratta, le pŚ ett škta vis. Jag tšnker pŚ det ibland. Det smšrtar. FŲr aldrig har du všl varit. Lšngre bort. FrŚn mig.
Ešrendil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2002, 09:05 AM   #31
Niphredil Baggins
Wight
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Finland
Posts: 118
Niphredil Baggins has just left Hobbiton.
The Eye

Maybe Sauron called it 'My Precious' too. Bilbo did, after all.
__________________
Wistful, willful, wingless, fly!
Niphredil Baggins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2002, 06:07 PM   #32
Anarya SilverBranch
Wight
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: In maiden meditation, fancy free.
Posts: 245
Anarya SilverBranch has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Though the green milk does sound appitizing guys, I think i'll pass. I really don't want to go get my stomach pumped tonight. I'm just not in the mood for it [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
__________________
Snow white! Snow White! O' Lady Clear! O' Queen Beyond the Western Seas!
O' light to us that wander here amid the world of woven trees!
Anarya SilverBranch is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:14 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.