The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-03-2002, 07:06 PM   #1
Lomelinde
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Ha! Wouldn't you like to know?
Posts: 80
Lomelinde has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril A Question About the Dead Marshes

Quote: "Who are they? What are they?" asked Sam shuddering, turning to Frodo, who was now behind him.

..."I know not who they are; but I thought I saw there Men and Elves, and Orcs beside them."

"Yes, yes," said Gollum. " All dead, all rotten. The Dead Marshes. There was a great battle long ago, yes, so they told him when Smeagol was young, when I was young before the Precious came. It was a great battle. Tall Men with long swords, and terrible Elves, and Orcses shrieking. They fought on the plain for days and months at the Black Gates."

Just out of curiosity, what battle was Gollum speaking of? At first, I assumed it was the Last Alliance, but now I'm not so sure. If anyone has a clue, please clue me in!null
__________________
The Dwarf breathes so loud I could've shot him in the dark, drunk, blindfolded and hanging upside down from a tree.
Lomelinde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2002, 07:21 PM   #2
Elrian
Eldar Spirit of Truth
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE
Posts: 794
Elrian has just left Hobbiton.
Tolkien

The Battle of Dagorlad where the Last Alliance fought Sauron.
__________________
*~*Call me a relic, call me what you will.
Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill.
That old whine ain't got no soul.
I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.*~*
Elrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2002, 06:47 AM   #3
lathspell
Regenerating Ringkeeper
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Holland
Posts: 757
lathspell has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Yes, it was the Last Alliance, and believe that in later time Gondor fought a battle their against the Easterlings.

greetings,
lathspell
__________________
'You?' cried Frodo.
'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'
lathspell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2002, 09:52 PM   #4
TarElendil
Wight
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Armenelos
Posts: 136
TarElendil has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

they fought two battles there. one with the harad also. During one of the battles King Ondoher was slain along with his sons. One of his sons had went disguised into battle because it was law that one of the Kings sons must stay incase the King fell. The disguised prince died in the Dead Marshes.
TarElendil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2002, 12:24 AM   #5
Raefindel
Sword of the Spirit
 
Raefindel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Washington State
Posts: 1,325
Raefindel has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Raefindel
Sting

Thank You,TarElendil, That was interesting. I didn't know that.
__________________
Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1
Raefindel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2002, 07:15 AM   #6
lathspell
Regenerating Ringkeeper
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Holland
Posts: 757
lathspell has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

TarElendil - I thought that battle was fought in Ithilien near the morannon, but I might be wrong.

greetings,
lathspell
__________________
'You?' cried Frodo.
'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'
lathspell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2002, 07:46 AM   #7
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,656
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Tolkien

The war that TarElendil refers to was actually much later than the Last Alliance (1944 TA), and it was against the Wainriders. However, there were two battles fought in that war, one was at Dagorlad and one was in Ithilien. The Wainriders were driven into the Dead Marshes in their panic stricken flight, and I expect that many of the dead from the earlier battle made it into the Marshes as well, so it was not just bodies from the War of the Last Alliance.
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2002, 01:21 PM   #8
MallornLeaf
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: who cares?
Posts: 76
MallornLeaf has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to MallornLeaf
Silmaril

I knew it was the battle of Dagorlad, but one question. this wasn't THE battle, was it? this wasn't the battle that sauron was defeated... was it? that took place in the fleids near mount doom, right?
__________________
". . . All we must decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

"I pass the test, I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel."
MallornLeaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2002, 01:39 PM   #9
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,656
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Tolkien

It was one of them. That was the battle where the Last Alliance drove into Mordor and beseiged Barad-dur. But, you're right that it was not the battle where Sauron came forth and was personally defeated.
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2002, 06:16 PM   #10
The Silver-shod Muse
Shade of Carn Dm
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX
Posts: 388
The Silver-shod Muse has just left Hobbiton.
Pipe

Here's another question: what exactly were those reflection things? They couldn't have been the men, elves and orcs themselves because they go to the Halls of Mandos after death. That leads me to another question that is completely off-topic, but oh well. Do orcs go to the Halls of Mandos too or do they get thrown out in the dark with Melkor? After all, it wasn't really their choice to be born ugly and marred, Melkor did that to them.
__________________
"'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis
The Silver-shod Muse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2002, 11:43 PM   #11
TarElendil
Wight
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Armenelos
Posts: 136
TarElendil has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Quote:
The war that TarElendil refers to was actually much later than the Last Alliance (1944 TA), and it was against the Wainriders. However, there were two battles fought in that war, one was at Dagorlad and one was in Ithilien. The Wainriders were driven into the Dead Marshes in their panic stricken flight, and I expect that many of the dead from the earlier battle made it into the Marshes as well, so it was not just bodies from the War of the Last Alliance.
there were many battles fought in that general area. the Battle of the Camp was fought in ithlien against the harad and easterlinges, after which earnil became king. i wasnt speaking of any exact battle
TarElendil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2002, 09:30 AM   #12
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,656
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
The Eye

Quote:
Do orcs go to the Halls of Mandos too or do they get thrown out in the dark with Melkor? After all, it wasn't really their choice to be born ugly and marred, Melkor did that to them.
Boy, you do enjoy opening the cans o' worms don't you!

This is one of the most complex topics that Tolkien fans get in heated arguments about.

There is a thread in the Revised Silmarillion Forum that goes IN DEPTH with this question. I think that it is called Orcish Fear or something like that. I'll have to check.
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:08 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.