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Old 03-20-2024, 12:38 PM   #641
Huinesoron
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Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
Is this a comfortable pitch range for you to sing in? Another thing I can fix after the score is done is to make it a bit higher or lower, so it doesn't strain as much to sing at the upper/lower ends of the register. If you think that would be helpful, we can experiment a bit.
I have no idea. ^_^ I do know I jumped massively between Beren's first stanza and the rest of him; that's on me, not the score. I think it's fine?

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Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
Yes - I am almost halfway through the final section. I am very excited to finally be done. I also like the singing into dead silence trail-off, so I'll try to replicate that.
I feel like discussing translation has really gotten me back into the Zong headspace. I've also got a drawing project on the go right now, so if I can maintain the drawing urge until that's finished, I should be able to sort out the last few portraits, and maybe even the backgrounds.

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I love this one. And the "give my light to thine". This is perfect.


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Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
The other stanza... I am still mulling over, and may need some convincing. It sounds lovely, but this wasn't how I read Finrod's meaning initially. I had a more depressed read on him. "My life was worthless, a waste, I am dying a stupid inglorious death in a pit" - and no backbone to give his life form and meaning, to echo Beren's earlier love theme "by you my life is justified". Your translation takes a different twist on it, that Finrod finds the thing which makes his existence worthwhile, which is sacrificing himself for Beren. It makes sense grammatically and even story-wise, but a deep part of me still prefers the utterly dejected Finrod.

I rather like your Beren line - even though "Finrod" doesn't rhyme with "Beren", I think we can let that slide for the purpose of better meaning/grammar. It's also a lot easier to work with. Actually.......
Hmm. I think the best path here is if we can find something that can be read either way, to retain the ambiguity. (My read is solidly taken from the Script, where Finrod directly says that saving Beren was his purpose in Arda; it makes all his living relatives furious, as I recall.)

I didn't actually realise we were trying to rhyme daring/Beren; those are very different sounds in my accent. ^_^ I would quite like to keep "Finrod", because I've just checked, and it would be only the second time Beren uses his name to his face - and the first is qualified, "Finrod Elvenking" back in the Appeal. I quite like the idea that, right at the end, Beren's finally able to relate to him as an equal.

No, Finrod! O loyal friend, let hope abide!
But Beren! How can/could my life be justified?


Okay, I really like 'abide', and 'friend' rather than 'king'. And it pulls 'justified' in and keeps the name exchange... the only thing we lose is Finrod talking about deeds or actions, but that gives us that ambiguity: he's either saying 'I'm rubbish, I should just die' or 'how could I live knowing I let you die', and there's no way of knowing which.

hS
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Old 03-20-2024, 10:59 PM   #642
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Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
I have no idea. ^_^ I do know I jumped massively between Beren's first stanza and the rest of him; that's on me, not the score. I think it's fine?
Yeah, you jump an octave. I thought it was kinda cool at first, but then I started wondering if that was a sign the range is weird. Your call, I'm happy to do some shifts when it's done, just let me know.

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Originally Posted by Hui
I feel like discussing translation has really gotten me back into the Zong headspace. I've also got a drawing project on the go right now, so if I can maintain the drawing urge until that's finished, I should be able to sort out the last few portraits, and maybe even the backgrounds.
Yay!

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Originally Posted by Hui
Hmm. I think the best path here is if we can find something that can be read either way, to retain the ambiguity. (My read is solidly taken from the Script, where Finrod directly says that saving Beren was his purpose in Arda; it makes all his living relatives furious, as I recall.)

No, Finrod! O loyal friend, let hope abide!
But Beren! How can/could my life be justified?
I like this, for all the reasons you say. I think it can be read either way, it sounds good, it makes sense. I totally agree about the nice touch with shifting from "king" to "friend". "Could vs can"... I think "could" has a slightly nicer ring to it, and adds to your take on Finrod finding purpose in self-sacrifice without taking away the other meaning, but I don't feel strongly about it. Do you have a preference?

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Originally Posted by Hui
I didn't actually realise we were trying to rhyme daring/Beren; those are very different sounds in my accent. ^_^
Loooool. I spent so much time trying to come up with plausible near-rhymes for "Beren"! Wow. Well, I suppose it's no loss then. *shakes head at herself*
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Old 03-25-2024, 07:49 AM   #643
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Yeah, you jump an octave. I thought it was kinda cool at first, but then I started wondering if that was a sign the range is weird. Your call, I'm happy to do some shifts when it's done, just let me know.
It's just me starting without practicing, and not bothering to fix it. I can sing the whole thing at the higher octave no problem.

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I like this, for all the reasons you say. I think it can be read either way, it sounds good, it makes sense. I totally agree about the nice touch with shifting from "king" to "friend". "Could vs can"... I think "could" has a slightly nicer ring to it, and adds to your take on Finrod finding purpose in self-sacrifice without taking away the other meaning, but I don't feel strongly about it. Do you have a preference?
I've put 'could' in; if it doesn't sing right I can always switch it.

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Loooool. I spent so much time trying to come up with plausible near-rhymes for "Beren"! Wow. Well, I suppose it's no loss then. *shakes head at herself*
In fairness I may have known when you first wrote it! A lot of water has passed under a lot of bridges since then, and some things that should not have been forgotten... were lost.

hS
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Old 03-26-2024, 12:45 PM   #644
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It is done!

I hear the last horn's dying call

I wasn't sure how to best cut out the score at the end and played around with some alternate endings. This is another prime candidate (music starting from "No, Finrod"). There are a couple other variations too. What are your thoughts? Any preference?

I think I am most pleased with the raging against the dying of the light in the 3rd section. I am happy overall too. My main goal was to make the song dynamic and avoid falling into an endless dreary dirge for the whole thing, and I think it ebbs and flows enough that it still sounds alive.


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I've put 'could' in; if it doesn't sing right I can always switch it.
The more I sing this version, the more I like it. Sounds lovely, and leaves it nicely ambiguous as to whether Finrod rediscovers his sense of purpose before his death here or after his death in Truth.


Over the next couple weeks I wanna try to record the actual singing to test it out and maybe come up with the 2-voice harmony lines.
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Old 04-08-2024, 09:16 AM   #645
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I hear the last horn's dying call

I think I am most pleased with the raging against the dying of the light in the 3rd section. I am happy overall too. My main goal was to make the song dynamic and avoid falling into an endless dreary dirge for the whole thing, and I think it ebbs and flows enough that it still sounds alive.
Eeeeeeee (and apologies for not listening earlier). I really like it. It's long, but I like it. And you have managed to avoid the endless dirge, well done!

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I wasn't sure how to best cut out the score at the end and played around with some alternate endings. This is another prime candidate (music starting from "No, Finrod"). There are a couple other variations too. What are your thoughts? Any preference?
I think the full version with the hard cut after the fanfare might be too abrupt; the single note in the "prime candidate" covers any gap in the singing better. My own first thought would be to extend the last note of the fanfare into the gap, to make it a "dying note"? But I don't know how that would actually sound, and to be fair I've only hummed it at this point.

Cripes, I need to start thinking about animation, don't I? The easy route is just to directly run-on from the end of Captivity and keep the prison backdrop, but it feels like a very long time not to change the scene. Um... I don't really have any other ideas, though. Is there another background that could fade in during parts of the song? I don't think the Throne of Day making an appearance would really work.

hS
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Old 04-09-2024, 10:07 AM   #646
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"Who is Thu/
To hinder work that is to do?"

I've never been happy with the Sauron portrait. The design yes, absolutely, I love it; but not the pose. So I decided to go right back to basics and just rip off Tolkien's own drawing of the Lord of Wolves:



I love the shape the cloak makes down from the arm, and by turning his head (the lower picture) we can keep the eye contact. It does mean I'll need a second, mirrored image if he ever shows up on the right-hand side (which I think he will when duelling Luthien), but that's just a matter of moving the scar. No biggie.

Still no thoughts on how to make the Prison Duet more visually interesting, though. I considered a window, but, um, they're supposed to be in a dungeon, not high up in moth-calling territory.

hS
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Old 04-20-2024, 08:46 AM   #647
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I like the new Sauron!

Meanwhile, I lost my voice to a cold and haven't been able to experiment with harmonizing. And today will be Leaving on an Adventure for a bit, so no computer. But! I did fiddle around with the ending, and have Option 3. Thoughts? The goal in all cases is to have "doom fell" fall into dead silence, without any music. Depending on how dramatically slow the last line gets, the final note here might be a bit short or a bit long. Also, we can put a slight "fade out" effect on Audacity to make it a smoother stop.

Also, I started dabbling with Duel again. ^.^ Looking back at it, I really like some elements, but in terms of creating electronically-generated music, it was quite immature. I am adding two more instrument lines to fill it out a bit, and rebalancing the volumes so that you can actually hear the countermelody. I really like how it's turning out so far.
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Old 04-26-2024, 11:16 AM   #648
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I like the new Sauron!

Meanwhile, I lost my voice to a cold and haven't been able to experiment with harmonizing. And today will be Leaving on an Adventure for a bit, so no computer. But! I did fiddle around with the ending, and have Option 3. Thoughts? The goal in all cases is to have "doom fell" fall into dead silence, without any music. Depending on how dramatically slow the last line gets, the final note here might be a bit short or a bit long. Also, we can put a slight "fade out" effect on Audacity to make it a smoother stop.
I hope your Adventure is going/did went well! I like Option 3 a lot - the fadeout sounds more natural than the hard stop, like, oh I don't know, the last horn's dying call? I can sing it as long or short as you like, and if all else fails I can always tweak the note in Audacity.

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Also, I started dabbling with Duel again. ^.^ Looking back at it, I really like some elements, but in terms of creating electronically-generated music, it was quite immature. I am adding two more instrument lines to fill it out a bit, and rebalancing the volumes so that you can actually hear the countermelody. I really like how it's turning out so far.
Awesome! Looking forward to hearing it.

As for me, I decided to try something today:



(Direct link if it doesn't load/to larger version)

I'm fairly pleased with it as far as it goes, sausage fingers aside. Whether I have the skill for animation is arguable, but what I definitely don't have is the patience: this took an hour and a half, and I couldn't face any more. The original plan was to try and animate the Ballad to Amarie, but no, that is not happening. Still a fun experiment, though.

hS
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Old 04-27-2024, 10:50 AM   #649
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I hope your Adventure is going/did went well! I like Option 3 a lot - the fadeout sounds more natural than the hard stop, like, oh I don't know, the last horn's dying call? I can sing it as long or short as you like, and if all else fails I can always tweak the note in Audacity.
Thank'ee! Adventure is still.in full steam, so no editing on my end yet, but can do once I het back if needed. I vote sing naturally, and we can put a fade-out effect on Audacity over the music to make it an even more gentle stop that's also at the right time. And if it's too short - I can always extend the dying note.

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As for me, I decided to try something today:



(Direct link if it doesn't load/to larger version)

I'm fairly pleased with it as far as it goes, sausage fingers aside. Whether I have the skill for animation is arguable, but what I definitely don't have is the patience: this took an hour and a half, and I couldn't face any more. The original plan was to try and animate the Ballad to Amarie, but no, that is not happening. Still a fun experiment, though.


That is incredible! That's amazing! What a cool idea. I love it!
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Old 05-15-2024, 02:43 PM   #650
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How shall I stay/At throne of day...?

[Mesmerised witnessing ensues]

I know you're still thinking about a harmonised version, but I decided it's been 8 months since we last had a video; we deserve something. So this is officially a first draft of the Prison Duet video, but I'm not planning to change the visuals. It should be pretty easy to replace the audio if and when we have a new version.

Which means, unless I'm mistaken, that we now have a complete first-pass run of the first 19 songs! It is literally only the three finale songs to go.

hS
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Old 05-30-2024, 09:20 PM   #651
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I have really been dragging my feet... Sorry

I have finally made a sung version. It is not great, but I didn't have another day to get another pass at it. It shows me four things. Firstly, the harmony is a bonus but definitely not a must, and can be easy or complicated; I would say this is medium. Secondly, for the final "doom fell", I sung it the way it felt natural to me, and then just faded out the excess music to match the singing. I think this works better than trying to force the singing onto the music. Third, my mic is dying. I don't know what I did with it. I used it for Aria, and it was amazing. Then I used it for Luthien & Feanorians, and it was already giving poor quality. And now this - it's absolutely unpresentable. I would get better quality from phone. It's good to know before I do any actual recordings, but it's a real shame. And finally, listening to both recordings, I really really like the lyrics we settled on for the last stanzas.

I have been thinking about how to best get a "sketch" for the harmonies to you, and figured it would probably work best if I just sent you a separate Audacity file with my sketches and my recording for reference. So look out for an email. ^.^
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