The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Fun and Games > Quiz Room
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-28-2022, 01:08 AM   #3841
Pervinca Took
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials
Posts: 4,864
Pervinca Took is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Is the last verse about Aragorn? Is the motherland Numenor?

Tears sounds like Nienna. She lived alone, but did she have a sister?

I meant the first and second elves to wake - was the first called Imin?

What else did Feanor burn, or did you mean the ships and his spirit in general, or the life-force of his mother?
__________________
"Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always."

Last edited by Pervinca Took; 07-28-2022 at 01:14 AM.
Pervinca Took is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2022, 04:08 AM   #3842
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,066
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pervinca Took View Post
Is the last verse about Aragorn? Is the motherland Numenor?
No to both. The entire riddle talks about a single group, of which "I" is "the last". Motherland is not Numenor, but you have the right scale of destruction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pervinca
Tears sounds like Nienna. She lived alone, but did she have a sister?
Nienna is not one of the sisters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pervinca
I meant the first and second elves to wake - was the first called Imin?
Not them. The "oldest one" and "second" come from the same group as "the last". "Second" with an S is a separate entity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pervinca
What else did Feanor burn, or did you mean the ships and his spirit in general, or the life-force of his mother?
I was thinking Alqualonde and ships at Losgar. And I hope I didn't miss another major burning by him before he went up in flames himself - though it would be irrelevant, that line just refers to Feanor and his death, and you got that element already.


I thought this riddle would be really easy. It is very much a description cloaked in vague poetry. Some elements are very precise, and you can crack at them in similar fashion to Feanor. For this approach I can point you to the "estel" line - that too refers to very specific event and people. As another clue for "Second" - Second came from countries far, and that is important.

But in this case, you can also try to read the poetic gist of the riddle for a gestalt feeling. Also, knowing that the riddle talks about a group of related entities where "eldest", "second", and "last" are more clearly defined and some "sisters" in the second stanza are a bit more vaguely described - see if just by reading it as a poem you have any unifying theme jumping out at you, almost password-style.
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2022, 10:52 AM   #3843
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,066
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Reposting on new page:



The oldest one, the nameless one,
Did not know warmth of shining sun.
But in the darkness shone the stars,
And in their light, from countries far
The Second came in second's turn -
But, in the end, though day was won,
Who twice had torched, third time must burn.

But better known in tale of years
The younger sisters - one for tears,
And one for joy, resounding joy
Which yet failed darkness to destroy;
But peace was guarded well, until
Twixt triumph great and ruin great -
But stopping short of western hills -
A burst reversed the tides of fate,
Breaking resistance, kindling dread,
Incinerating every shred
Of estel in the lord now dead
Whose line was estel to beget.

I'm not the least, but I'm the last.
The closing rage of hardships past,
Of foes and heroes both long gone.
You cannot count us on one hand -
Though brief our line, 'tis yet too long,
And we destroyed our motherland.
I am the end. I am the start.
I split the thread of time apart.
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2022, 10:57 AM   #3844
Urwen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Urwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,130
Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
I am thinking the 'second' is Finrod, and 'Second' are the Secondborn. But Finrod had only one sister. His father, however, had two...
__________________
Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench.

I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.
Urwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2022, 11:07 AM   #3845
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,066
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwen View Post
I am thinking the 'second' is Finrod, and 'Second' are the Secondborn. But Finrod had only one sister. His father, however, had two...
"second" is not Finrod. Remember, this one is part of the group - the second in that series. I recommend not focusing on this for now though because you will get there easier either by sorting out the supporting elements, or by figuring out the sisters.

"Second" is not Secondborn, but you are on the right track with the type of answer this refers to. Just wrong group of people.

I seriously thought this riddle was gonna be easier, but I guess all riddles are easy when you know the answer. So trying to give hints aplenty without spoiling it.
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2022, 11:27 AM   #3846
Urwen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Urwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,130
Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Hmm...maybe it involves the second among the three Elven tribes...or maybe Second among the Edain houses...
__________________
Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench.

I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.
Urwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2022, 12:13 PM   #3847
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,066
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwen View Post
Hmm...maybe it involves the second among the three Elven tribes...or maybe Second among the Edain houses...
Maybe. I also suggest looking at that line in context - look at the line before, and the next two lines that follow. You know that the last line of the stanza refers to Feanor's death.
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 04:58 AM   #3848
Urwen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Urwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,130
Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Hmm, I think the first stanza refers to the coming of Noldor to Beleriand, and Noldor are one of the 'seconds'. The other 'second' are Edain, and the only one who is the last of both of those races is Elrond...who was also raised by the Second.
__________________
Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench.

I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.
Urwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 05:33 AM   #3849
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,066
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwen View Post
Hmm, I think the first stanza refers to the coming of Noldor to Beleriand, and Noldor are one of the 'seconds'. The other 'second' are Edain, and the only one who is the last of both of those races is Elrond...who was also raised by the Second.
The Noldor are the Second. They came "in second's turn", just before Feanor died. The Edain didn't even wake yet, so they are not the "second". Besides, there is more to that series than just 2. "Last" is not "last of the Second/second", but: there was a first, a second, some more, and a last.

Since with team effort you have made a fair bit of progress with the first stanza, think about what the initial lines could mean as well. The second line is not random. Neither is the third.

If you are getting stuck with the first stanza though, try looking at the end of the second one. That is another place where you can get an element or two sorted to help orient yourself to the time and place: "Breaking resistance, kindling dread, Incinerating every shred Of estel in the lord now dead Whose line was estel to beget". Who is the lord (now dead)?
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 05:46 AM   #3850
Urwen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Urwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,130
Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Well, that could refer to Finwe, Turgon, Hador, Galdor, Huor, Tuor, Fingolfin, Thingol, Barahir, Beren, or many Kings of Numenor and Gondor, and the stewards which came after.
__________________
Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench.

I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.
Urwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 06:17 AM   #3851
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,066
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwen View Post
Well, that could refer to Finwe, Turgon, Hador, Galdor, Huor, Tuor, Fingolfin, Thingol, Barahir, Beren, or many Kings of Numenor and Gondor, and the stewards which came after.
Not sure which element you are talking about here. Can you be more specific about what part of the riddle you are answering - or the riddle as a whole?
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 06:47 AM   #3852
Urwen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Urwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,130
Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
Not sure which element you are talking about here. Can you be more specific about what part of the riddle you are answering - or the riddle as a whole?

I just listed all the ancestors of Estel (Aragorn)
__________________
Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench.

I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.
Urwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 08:04 AM   #3853
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,066
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwen View Post
I just listed all the ancestors of Estel (Aragorn)
Well, he's had more ancestors than that. You're right that Estel is Aragorn, and you need an ancestor. But as he had so many, going through all of them will be horribly inefficient. There is more information about this particular lord - what happened to him? This is a pivotal moment in the story. For instance, I wouldn'y say that Barahir lost every shred of estel.
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 08:05 AM   #3854
Huinesoron
Overshadowed Eagle
 
Huinesoron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
Posts: 3,590
Huinesoron is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Huinesoron is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
I'm pretty sure the Lord Now Dead is Fingolfin.

Is one of the group described in only three words? Despite being arguably the most prominent?

hS
__________________
Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera
Huinesoron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 08:16 AM   #3855
Urwen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Urwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,130
Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Well, I have a couple of ideas as to who the answer is, but none of them fits with the 'sisters' part.

For instance, if Feanor is the first or the second, then the last would be Gil-Galad, and the group would be High Kings of the Noldor.
__________________
Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench.

I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.
Urwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 09:29 AM   #3856
Urwen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Urwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,130
Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Oh, wait, I just had a though, and ironically, Huey's thread inspired this reasoning.



Okay, so the answer are Finwes, as a group. It explains every line quite nicely too.
__________________
Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench.

I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.
Urwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 01:18 PM   #3857
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,066
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
I'm pretty sure the Lord Now Dead is Fingolfin.

Is one of the group described in only three words? Despite being arguably the most prominent?

hS
Yes, and yes. I think you're onto something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwen View Post
Okay, so the answer are Finwes, as a group. It explains every line quite nicely too.
I am curious how you would explain it then, because it is not the Finwes, nor the High Kings.
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 01:39 PM   #3858
Urwen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Urwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,130
Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Which other group could Feanor be a part of, then?
__________________
Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench.

I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.
Urwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 01:42 PM   #3859
Urwen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Urwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,130
Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Or maybe it's like this. First verse describes Feanor, second verse describes Fingolfin/Findis/Irime, third verse describes Finarfin.
__________________
Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench.

I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.
Urwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 01:55 PM   #3860
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,066
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwen View Post
Which other group could Feanor be a part of, then?
Feanor was never part of the group. Not sure where you got that from. "second" is not the same as "who twice had torched etc".
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 02:09 PM   #3861
Urwen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Urwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,130
Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
So it's [Noldor] came in [???]'s turn.
__________________
Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench.

I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.
Urwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 02:12 PM   #3862
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,066
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwen View Post
So it's [Noldor] came in [???]'s turn.
Correct.
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 02:18 PM   #3863
Urwen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Urwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,130
Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Maybe the unknown is Tilion or Arien, or one of the stars...
__________________
Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench.

I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.
Urwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 02:32 PM   #3864
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,066
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwen View Post
Maybe the unknown is Tilion or Arien, or one of the stars...
By unknown do you mean the ??? in your last post, the "second"? Right timeframe, wrong category of answers. You're not looking for celestial bodies.
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 03:22 PM   #3865
Urwen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Urwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,130
Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Well, knowing you, it's probably a body of water of some sort, like Drengist.
__________________
Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench.

I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.
Urwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 03:30 PM   #3866
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,066
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwen View Post
Well, knowing you, it's probably a body of water of some sort, like Drengist.
...Aaaand we get to the part where we debate whether "sisters" can refer to non-humanoids.

You are correct in that knowing me, "second" may very well not be a person. But it is not a body of water either.
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 03:32 PM   #3867
Urwen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Urwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,130
Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Well, you used the word 'sister' to refer to rivers and arrows, if I am not mistaken.
__________________
Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench.

I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.
Urwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 04:14 PM   #3868
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,066
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwen View Post
Well, you used the word 'sister' to refer to rivers and arrows, if I am not mistaken.
I had an arrow riddle, yes... Can't remember the river, but very possible... I referred to a castle as "lady" at one point... And yes, I tend to use personification a lot. You know me. But that doesn't mean the word "sisters" means the same thing every time.
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 04:46 PM   #3869
Urwen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Urwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,130
Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Well, if they are humanoid, then the only sisters that existed during that time period are Valier and Finwe's two daughters. And there aren't many sister duos in Arda, to be fair.
__________________
Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench.

I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.
Urwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2022, 05:12 PM   #3870
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,066
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwen View Post
Well, if they are humanoid, then the only sisters that existed during that time period are Valier and Finwe's two daughters. And there aren't many sister duos in Arda, to be fair.
Just forget the word "sisters" for now and replace with "group members". It's gonna make your life easier.

Team effort identified Feanor and Fingolfin. You have a timeframe/setting for two of the stanzas. It's time to start putting it together. Once again, try thinking of this as a password and find the unifying theme.
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2022, 03:29 AM   #3871
Urwen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Urwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,130
Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Well, you said Feanor is not a part of this group, but the second is, and apparently Fingolfin is too... *scratches head*
__________________
Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench.

I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.
Urwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2022, 03:33 AM   #3872
Urwen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Urwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,130
Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Why do I feel like ??? is the eldest? Of Balrogs? *thinking*
__________________
Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench.

I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.
Urwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2022, 08:10 AM   #3873
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,066
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwen View Post
Well, you said Feanor is not a part of this group, but the second is, and apparently Fingolfin is too... *scratches head*
...No, Fingolfin is not. Fingolfin is the lord who lost all hope, not one of the group. Not every element of the riddle is part of the final answer, and you need to be careful not to confuse them. Knowing Fingolfin though, read the second stanza again and see if you can work backwards up the text - what do the preceding lines mean?
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2022, 08:12 AM   #3874
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,066
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwen View Post
Why do I feel like ??? is the eldest? Of Balrogs? *thinking*
Again not sure about which element you are referring to ("oldest" or "second"?), but neither of those is a balrog.
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2022, 10:43 AM   #3875
Urwen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Urwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,130
Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Well, the preceding lines mean that there is a pair of sisters, who are somehow connected with Fingolfin.

But with the way you're talking, I picture in my head some group that it unseen, who destroyed their motherland, somehow. And I keep thinking about some group of 'bad guys'.
__________________
Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench.

I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

Last edited by Urwen; 07-30-2022 at 10:50 AM.
Urwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2022, 04:54 PM   #3876
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,066
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwen View Post
Well, the preceding lines mean that there is a pair of sisters, who are somehow connected with Fingolfin.
No. In fact, there are more than a pair. And they are described out of order. They are not connected with Fingolfin any more than "second" is woth Feanor - both Fs are there to give context and to ground you in some specific characters and events. For preceding lines, don't go as far back as sisters. Start with "a burst", and see if you can interpret just that passage, knowing that the lord is Fingolfin.

Quote:
But with the way you're talking, I picture in my head some group that it unseen, who destroyed their motherland, somehow. And I keep thinking about some group of 'bad guys'.
The group is not unseen, nor villains. But you are not thinking in the right categories.

It might make your riddling easier too if you take "sisters" less literally, but take a number of other lines more literally. Stop fixating on sisters. But see if a literalnread of some poetic aoubding stuff gives you more info.
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2022, 05:58 PM   #3877
Urwen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Urwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,130
Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
A burst of fire?
__________________
Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench.

I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.
Urwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2022, 11:20 PM   #3878
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,066
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwen View Post
A burst of fire?
That is for you to determine. I think you can go a bit further here with the clues you've had without more specific hints about the burst, so give it a bit of a go first and see if you can get to the crux of the stanza rather than just single words here and there. See if you can untangle the second half of the middle stanza.
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2022, 04:04 AM   #3879
Urwen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Urwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,130
Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Ah, I see now. The thing that made Fingolfin lose hope.
__________________
Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench.

I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.
Urwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2022, 04:09 AM   #3880
Urwen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Urwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,130
Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Ah, I see. In one passage it says that Orcs attacked Beleriand, and wrecked lake Helevorn. Now, lake Helevorn could be Cuivinen, and if we take the theory that Orcs are corrupted Elves, well...

Or, that line could be referring to the Beleriand as a whole, as a homeland which Orcs destroyed.

And the 'burst' is Dagor Aglareb, which literally started with a burst, a burst of lava.
__________________
Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench.

I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

Last edited by Urwen; 07-31-2022 at 04:13 AM.
Urwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:49 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.