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Old 02-20-2002, 01:39 PM   #1
Elven-Maiden
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I've been hearing the most diverse critiques of Harry Potter. Some say it's a fantasy story in the same category as Narnia and LotR, others say it's devil-worship.<P>I want to keep an open mind, but I'm not sure if I should read it. Could people give me their opinions, but keep them relating to Tolkien's work, b/c I love ME, and I'd like to see some comparisons before I pick up the books.<P>I hope this post isn't inapporpriate in a Tolkien forum. But I trust you people's jugement.
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Old 02-20-2002, 01:47 PM   #2
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The Harry Potter books are a great read!<BR>I don't compare them to Tolkien's works because I don't see there possibly being a comparison. The two are entirely different, the only siumilarity being that they are both "fantasy" works.<BR>Don't worry about whether they are better or wore than Tolkien, read them and enjoy them in their own right!
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Old 02-20-2002, 01:49 PM   #3
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I've read Harry Potters.. I wouldn't say it's a fantasy book, because it's a childrens book... I'm not going to read Potters anymore... I just don't like them anymore...
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Old 02-20-2002, 01:51 PM   #4
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First and second part were good but third...
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Old 02-20-2002, 01:56 PM   #5
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I wouldn't say it's a fantasy book, because it's a childrens book... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Many children's books are "fantasy"; <I>The Hobbit</I>, <I>Prydain Chronicles</I> by Lloyd Alexander, George MacDonald's books (which Tolkien himself says influenced him), <I>Chronicles of Narnia</I> - C.S. Lewis specifically wrote these for children, <I>Through the Looking-Glass</I> and <I>Alice in Wonderland</I>. These are all children's books, but there is no question whatsoever that they are fantasy, and not just fantasy, but very good books to read as an adult as well!
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Old 02-20-2002, 02:00 PM   #6
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Okay.. You're right Bruce...
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Old 02-20-2002, 02:12 PM   #7
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Balefalathiel:<BR><STRONG>First and second part were good but third... </STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hey! I thought the third was the best!<P>Any way, I agree with Bruce entirely. They are a good read, but different from Tolkien in the way that Paper is different from a plank of wood. They start off the same (as a tree)- in that they are both fantasy - but they are different apart from that. (Rather lame metaphor there, sorry!)<BR>
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Old 02-20-2002, 02:44 PM   #8
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There's no comparing HP to Middle-earth. It's just not possible. Middle-earth is far deeper than Ms. Rowling's work; but Harry Potter is a great read. If you're looking for humor, HP's the way to go!<P>"They put people's heads down toilets at Stonewall. Wanna come upstairs and practice?"<BR>"No thanks. I don't think the toilet's had anything as horrible as your head in it. It might be sick." Then he ran before Dudly could figure out what he'd said.<BR>~Dudly Dursley and Harry Potter, "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's(Philosopher's) Stone"<P>And it's not devil-worship. (Read the backlogged messages by fuzzyvision19 at <A HREF="http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/caahp" TARGET=_blank>this club</A> to see my thoughts on this issue.)
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Old 02-20-2002, 07:13 PM   #9
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Thank you all! I guess I'll try it, and see if I like HP!
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Old 02-20-2002, 07:19 PM   #10
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Bruce, concerning alice in wonderland. I heard it was based off an LSD trip, have you heard anything like that also?
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Old 02-20-2002, 11:06 PM   #11
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Bruce, concerning alice in wonderland. I heard it was based off an LSD trip, have you heard anything like that also? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's just one of those things that makes ya go "Hmmmmm".
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Old 02-20-2002, 11:49 PM   #12
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I've read that Harry Potter was inspired by Lord of The Rings. JK Rowling admitted that herself so, there's no need for comparison cause they belong to two different genre. <BR>Harry P is more of a children's fun and full of laughter book.<BR>Lord of The Rings has more serious plotline. More thinking.<BR>I love them both and I can't decide which one is better cause they're both great!
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Old 02-21-2002, 12:31 AM   #13
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I think that the biggest difference between Tolkien and Harry Potter is that Lord of the Rings is an EPIC adventure, whereas H.P. is like children's tales/adventures in a wizarding world.<P>In a way the books are so different that they can't even be compared. Yet, they are similar...i think that Rowling and Tolkien are both incredible geniuses-their prolific creativity never fails to amaze me. The details of each of their worlds are so complete and well thought out. <P>H.P. and LOTR are both ultimately about good versus evil, but they ARE in fact very different. LOTR is so much more mature and descriptive, and infinitely darker and more brooding. It also has the power to MOVE the reader, to make the reader feel as if he/she is part of the story-when i read the books, i can feel the sadness, loyalty, friendship, trust, the desperation...all the things that the characters must feel. I haven't gotten to the end of the Lord of the Rings yet, but from what's been hinted to me at what is yet to come...i'm sure i will be bawling my eyes out at the end of Return of the King. I think that JK Rowling wrote Harry Potter for the purpose of entertainment...and she does a great job at accomplishing that purpose. Lord of the Rings, on the other hand, has much more meaning and passion and can really touch the readers' heart. You can never say that Rowling plagerized though. The creatures that are used in both series, are creatures that have been mentioned in other mythologies and aren't what the author created themself (of course, Rowling and Tolkien both have their own creative edge, from Ents to Boggarts and then some)<P>Both book series are ingenious in their own ways. It's incredibly and suprisingly hard to compare them. It's impossibel to choose one over the other indefinitely, because I love them both, but for different reasons.
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Old 02-21-2002, 03:19 AM   #14
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"Alice in Wonderland" was just a horrid book. I didn't like a moment of it.<P>As for HP and LotR: my best friend was right. You can tell a good author because he/she always has initials instead of a first name (except for Lloyd Alexander and Brian Jaque). J.R.R. Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, J.K. Rowling, etc... <P>The fact that HP is supposed to be a "children's" book means nothing. My Grandma is turning 70 this year and I got her hooked on HP. She's read and owns all four books. Sadly, thanks to Bakshi, she won't even give LotR a chance.
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Old 02-21-2002, 03:31 PM   #15
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Great! Another person who does not care for Alice in Wonderland! I thought I was alone in this world! ~doin' the happy dance!<BR>I have steered clear of HP just because it is written for children, and I like meatier books!(with really BIG words!)
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Old 02-21-2002, 03:39 PM   #16
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By the way; Should I read Narnia? Is it really so good as they say...?
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Old 02-21-2002, 10:46 PM   #17
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Absolutely!<BR>Keep in mind that the <I>Chronicles of Narnia</I> was written by C.S. Lewis, one of Professor Tolkien's dearest friends.
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Old 02-21-2002, 11:13 PM   #18
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Yes, definitely read Narnia! I only read the first book in that series, but i absolutely LOVED it! Hmm i think i need to revisit those C.S. Lewis books...after i finish all of Tolkien's that is.
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Old 02-22-2002, 01:54 AM   #19
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But I heard from somewhere that Tolkien didn't like Lewis's fantasy... but that can't be true, can it.. well I read it anyway.. ..I don't belive it's true...
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Old 02-22-2002, 02:22 PM   #20
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Tolkien hated allegory with a passion, so he wasn't fond of Narnia.<P>I loved "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe" and "The Last Battle". The middle five books were tough for me to read because they really were written for children and I read them for the first time this year, but read them anyway. I love C.S. Lewis' philosophical works! "Mere Christianity" and "The Screwtape Letters" rule! And so does "Til We Have Faces". Hmmm, I need to finish that book; it was really good.
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Old 02-22-2002, 04:22 PM   #21
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While Tolkien did not like Narnia because of its allegory, he many times expressed his appreciation of Lewis's writings. In <I>Letters</I>, the Professor praises <I>Out of the Silent Planet</I> very highly.
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Old 02-22-2002, 05:17 PM   #22
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HP is great, but their different, their just good books. Tolkiens something more something......................................... ..............magical?
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Old 02-22-2002, 05:48 PM   #23
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For all the nasty criticism that befell <B>Harry Potter</B> (and continues to rain down on J.K. Rowling's head as I type this post), one thing the books certainly <I>did</I> do, is turn the kids away from mindless TV-consumption and gory video games, and get them to read again!<BR>Reading, as you may know, helps the brain to develop. <BR>Personally speaking, I have enjoyed Harry & Co.'s antics very much, and can't wait for the next installment.
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Old 02-22-2002, 06:18 PM   #24
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I loved the Narnia books! I think my favourites were <B>The Horse and His Boy</B> and <B>The Silver Chair</B>. As soon as I finish Tolkien's books, I'll give HP a fair chance.<P>Thank you all! <P>Oh.... and on a similar note I was wondering if you could all recomment ONE book! Not a series, not a tie between two... and not a link to the other thread about books, but ONE book that you would recommend reading. I'm hungry for books, but huge listrs overwhelm me! <BR>Thanks
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Old 02-22-2002, 10:54 PM   #25
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Just one? Mm... *eyes get wide, Rosa looks scared, starts chewing nails* Boy, I read so much and most of it in a series...Ummmm.... How 'bout.... "Dinotopia" by James Gurney. It's filled with bunches of cool illustrations and is all about the adventures of a shipwrecked man and his son on an island inhabited by civilized dinosaurs that can talk! It's so cool! If you're not into dinos, let me know and I'll suggest something else.
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Old 02-23-2002, 08:06 AM   #26
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I think a huge difference between LotR and HP, one that makes LotR seem much more magical (despite the relative shortage of actual magic) is the setting. HP is based on fictional aspects of a familiar world. But LotR is an entirely new environment, which action taking place all over the map, in all kinds of areas. It makes it feel much...grander.<P>Mmm...wish I could recommend some good fantasy lit...I read more sci-fi. Although, I do like the Death Gate Cycle, though sometimes I feel as if I'm the only one. You might try reading Dragon Wing, but only if you're willing to get caught up in a series.
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Old 02-23-2002, 09:36 AM   #27
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I love the Death Gate Cycle! You are not alone!
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Old 02-23-2002, 11:11 AM   #28
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Whoo hoo! That makes *counts on fingers* four Death Gate Cycle fans that I know of! Those are great books!
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Old 02-23-2002, 11:35 AM   #29
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*jumps up and down, and starts frantically looking for money to raid the bookstore* Thank you all SO much!
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Old 02-23-2002, 11:53 AM   #30
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Dinotopia is a great series Rosa, my favorite in fact, besides the Redwall series, but that gets a little repetitive. <P>There are many similarities between HP and LOTR, but you could say the same for all fantasy stories. Good vs. Evil, one really bad guy, one very good guy, but is it just me, or does Gandalf represent Dumbledore? Alot. If you're looking for a good read though, it's kind of old but Heinlen's<I>The Starbeast</I> and <I>The Rolling Stones</I> are both great.
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Old 02-23-2002, 03:26 PM   #31
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Dinotopia is good but I'm not fond of it's sequels. "The World Beneath" was okay but not as good as the first. And I hated "First Flight". It was like a bad Disney sequel with more realistic art! Auck! <P>As for LotR and HP. LotR basically started up the fantasy/sword and sorcery genre we know today. Every stereotypical wizard that I can think of in modern literature stems from ideas of Gandalf, good or bad. Dumbledore can't help but resemble Gandalf, it seems. But LotR is the best.
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Old 02-27-2002, 07:47 PM   #32
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Very true, that it is impossible to compare theses two books. IMO, there are some major differences in these books that were not mentioned here. (This could start a majorly hot discussion, but here goes.)<P>First, in LOTR, the idea is to get rid of the magic, because you cannot weild it for good. The ring (ie: magic) is bad, and cannot be used for good. In Harry Potter, magic is seen as being fun and okay to use, as long as you use it for good. From my experience, magic in the real world is always creepy and goes hand in hand with evil things of all kinds.<P>And, sorry to burst your bubble, but J.K Rowling isn't as big of a genius as you might think. Her books follow a certain pattern of Brittish novel writing that was developed a while ago. So its' not altogether her own original style. (My Aunt teaches Advanced Placement literature and she knows her stuff!) <P>My personal reason for not being a huge HP fan, is that people decided to make this popular. I heard a radio interview with marketers who admitted that they didn't care if the book was all that great or not, but kids would like it and read it, just because THEY were going to MAKE it popular. I hate having things like that decided for me, and be one of the mindless masses....(NO offense to anyone here, I'm not talking about you, but rather about people who really don't think. And if you really don't think, then I AM talking about you. ) <P>Sorry for the long post and controversial ideas! This is only my opinion, and I'm prepared to get flamed <P>~Airetalathwen
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Old 02-27-2002, 08:53 PM   #33
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*Rosa aims flame thrower, then blows out the flame* <P>The only thing I disagree with is what you said about magic in Middle-earth. The Ring wasn't the only object to have magic in ME, it was just the most malevolent at the time. And not all magic is bad (remember that magic is generic term that describes what the observer doesn't understand. Science is magic to those who don't know how it works; the sunset is magic just because it's so beautiful, etc, etc.).<P>Aside from that, no beef from me. Good points!
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Old 03-07-2002, 02:03 PM   #34
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I like hp, but I love LOTR it is great!<BR>but my favourite book is ' Quo Vadis' and The Hobbit<BR>Do you read them?
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Old 03-07-2002, 02:06 PM   #35
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my fauvorite books are...<BR>of course<BR>Sorry I speak some English<BR>I learn it
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Old 03-07-2002, 02:32 PM   #36
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Harry P is more of a children's fun and full of laughter book.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ugh. Obviously you didn't read book four. <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Sam had a natural mistrust of the inhabitants of other parts of the Shire; and also he was not disposed to be quick friends with anyone who had beaten his master, however long ago. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Old 03-07-2002, 02:36 PM   #37
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>First, in LOTR, the idea is to get rid of the magic, because you cannot weild it for good. The ring (ie: magic) is bad, and cannot be used for good. In Harry Potter, magic is seen as being fun and okay to use, as long as you use it for good. From my experience, magic in the real world is always creepy and goes hand in hand with evil things of all kinds.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I agree. And, though I found a few merits to the HP books, there were far more things I found unfavorable. <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"Now thats an eyeopener, and that's no mistake."<BR>-Samwise Gamgee <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Old 03-07-2002, 07:24 PM   #38
JesseCuster
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I thought the HP books were a fine read. They are very intelligently written, and deal with a lot of the things that the a kid would have to go through. <P>Of course, it's not LOTR, and comparing the two would be completely unfair. The HP books are children's stories, but they are still fine fare for adults. <P>I like to read them as a light break between other stuff. They're funny, fast moving and lots of fun.
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Old 03-07-2002, 07:55 PM   #39
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I'll say they're fast moving....I read the first HP book in a night. <P>~Airetalathwen<p>[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: Airetalathwen ]
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Old 03-07-2002, 07:58 PM   #40
Samwise
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Hullo, Jesse! Welcome to the 'downs!<BR>~your friendly neighborhood gardener<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>LOTR Moment (IV) (Moria)<BR>Orcs are everywhere<BR>Samwise whacks one with a pot<BR>gets..."the hang of this!" <P>Copyright 2002 S. Uffelman <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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