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Old 01-11-2003, 05:13 PM   #1
Peri
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Sting The Portrayal of Faramir

Is it just me, or is anyone else ticked with the way they turned Faramir into another bad guy. They made him seem like he was no better than his brother, like he couldn't control his urge to take the ring. That is so not him! What does everyone else think?
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Old 01-11-2003, 05:43 PM   #2
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All I can say is that if anyone responds at all, be prepared for a ton of posts. <P>I agree, that Philly, Franny, and PJ did a truly crappy job with Faramir. They took their, as some call it, "creative license" way too far to show another (what, the fourth?) sample of the "weakness of men". I suppose, it seems that the terrible trio wanted Faramir to be his father's son in every way, even more than Boromir. Faramir even says one of Denethor's book-lines! Its ridiculous. And that is all I have to say.<P>Smiling (though I don't quite know why),<BR>Iarwain<P><BR>P.S. No one had better comment on how horrible I am to criticize this wonderful film and its most excellent producers. It's already been debated, and my final answer to all the debates is that I have <I>my</I> right to an opinion too, and you cannot change it by raving about my rudeness.<P>P.P.S. If no one considers doing this, well, I'm sorry!
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Old 01-11-2003, 05:45 PM   #3
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Sting

Methinks you'll find plenty of opinions <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001445" TARGET=_blank>here</A>.
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Old 01-11-2003, 05:56 PM   #4
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I think that PJ did a good job in the looks department, making him look like boromir, but I was mightily PEEVED( ) when he tried to take the ring, he said in the book, and I QUOTE: 'I would not take this thing if it lay by the highway'!!! And i thought the forbidden pools were in Osgiliath, and that they were supposed to be in Osgiliath to start with as soon as he finds them, not go there later....does my post make sense? Ah well...
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Old 01-12-2003, 04:45 PM   #5
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Ah me, I was *very* *very* disappointed in the portrayal of Faramir. <P>Alas, I have vented on this topic too much however on other threads so that's all I'm going to say.
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Old 01-13-2003, 02:14 PM   #6
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Replying here because the other Faramir thread seems to be dead. I've seemingly bounced back and forth on Faramir. At first it bothered me, but on a second viewing it bothered me less. I guess I was just surprised at how strong some people's reactions were.<P>If it were up to me, I would have toned down Faramir's agression. I pretend to myself he is just having a really bad day. It's that one image of him pulling out the ring around Frodo's neck with his sword that is so un-Faramir. That one sticks with me. Maybe the special edition will delete that shot. I guess not. <P>H.C.
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Old 01-14-2003, 10:12 PM   #7
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Personally Faramir (in the book's)is my favourite character and if you don't know what happens stop reading.<P><BR>I don't think he deserves Eowyn if he's that well DARK.<BR>Beregond says (of Faramir)'He is bold, more bold than many deem; for in these days men are slow to believe that a captain can be wise and learned in the scrollsof lore and song, yet a man of hardihood and swift judgement in the field. But such is Faramir.' He more likely than anyone else in Gondor would have known of the destructive power of the ring. He would have read and pondered all the old stories especially after his recurring dream and saying he doesn't want it (see Arwen Evenstar's entry).
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Old 01-15-2003, 01:09 PM   #8
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Sting

Read about Faramir before he released Frodo, and then read about him afterwards. Notice a difference?<P>The only change in the movie was that they pushed his decision far back until the end of the film. Hence, we had no time left to see nice-guy Faramir in the eyes of Frodo.
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Old 01-15-2003, 01:16 PM   #9
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Old threads never die, they just get ignored. All one has to do to revive one is post in it.
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Old 01-15-2003, 01:17 PM   #10
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How can it be that the second most level-headed man (after, of course, Aragorn) in the entire book, turns out evil in the film? Well, not purely evil, but it's peeping through. He DID say that he would never take Isildurs Bane, and then reverberated it when Sam blurted out what Isildur's Bane was. He DIDN'T take them to Osgiliath, and he certainly wouldn't have sent the hobbits to his altogether nasty father. Are we talking about the same Faramir that Beregond burst into tears and ran away from Pippin over? And the same Faramir that is so kind to Eowyn, even before she starts to love him back? And the same Faramir that didn't get stroppy with his father, even when he said 'Would that Faramir had gone in his stead'? Okay, so that was to Gandalf, but he said something like that to Faramir. It just doesn't work. <P>But i was very, very shocked at how much he looked like Boromir. Is it Denethor that they say 'reminded him more of Aragorn than of Boromir'? Oh, well.
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Old 01-16-2003, 07:30 AM   #11
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Sting

Read the book. "Grim", "Stern", are each used twice. Accusing the Hobbits of treachery and hiding vital answers from him. We are seeing the movie through Frodo's eyes and this is how Faramir appeared.
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Old 01-16-2003, 10:50 AM   #12
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No, no, no. I don't buy that for a second. Even at his grimmest and sternest, he always treated Frodo and Sam with respect and courtesy. And even before they reached the falls, Frodo felt he could probably trust Faramir with the knowledge of the Ring but held back out of caution. Movie-Faramir gives absolutely no indication whatsoever that he can be trusted to do the right thing as far as the Ring is concerned. In fact, he appears to have even less stamina to resist its power than his brother did, falling to the temptaion much quicker.<P>No, this is a COMPLETELY different Faramir and I felt disrespected by Jackson who claims to have made these films for the LotR readers. Book-Faramir is a wise and insightful man who wants only what is right and good. "So fear me not! I do not ask you to tell me more. I do not even ask you to tell me whether I now speak nearer the mark. But if you will trust me, it may be that I can advise you in your present quest, whatever that be - yes and even aid you."...and later, "For strange though it may seem, it was safe to declare this to me. It may even help the master that you love. It shall turn to his good, if it is in my power. So be comforted. But do not even name this thing again aloud. Once is enough."<P>These are before and after quotes - do either one of them sound like Movie-Faramir? And Frodo never sees him as the character protrayed in the film, he ALWAYS senses a nobility in Faramir.<P>Since this is a thread for opinions, I'll voice mine. I was highly disappointed with Movie-Faramir and can't understand why it was done this way. It could very easily have been done correctly with the same amount of tension and drama and I just feel betrayed.<P>Then again, it's not my $300 million so I guess I'll have to get over it.
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Old 01-16-2003, 11:57 AM   #13
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From what is in the movie so far, it does look like the movie-Faramir departs a lot from the book-Faramir. But, wait to see what happens in the extended version and ROTK before you cast judgment. In the theatrical FOTR, Galadriel seemed really weird and didn't seem like the book-Galadriel at all. In the extended version, however, she was portrayed better. I was dissapointed in the movie Faramir, too, but I want to see what they put in the extended version and ROTK before I fully make up my mind. Remember that in the end, movie-Faramir does make the right decision so that would hint that from then on he's a good boy. I guess we'll see...
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Old 01-17-2003, 04:41 AM   #14
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The way Faramir changed his mind and let Frodo go was incerdibly stupid. " oh, you just almost gave in to the ring and gave it to the Nazgul, I've changed my mind, I think the best thing I can do now is to send you straight into Mordor". Faramir was a mayor dissapointment, I always liked him in the books. How he wants to give hi father a splendid and great gift is totaly out og character. And then 5 minutes later he says, "then my life is spoiled" or something. But I think this is mostly because of the lack of time, hopefuly the dvd version will make him moe justice.
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Old 01-18-2003, 04:49 PM   #15
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I pass on to you my brother's words, who at age 16 read <I>Riddles in the Dark</I> to me when I was age 8 (34 years ago).<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I'm sorry. I have to say that Philippa Boyen's comments are too similar to what many of the reviewers have had to say about many of Tolkien's own words: "Faramir's character is completely static in the books, and this wouldn't translate well filmically." <BR> <BR>The beauty of Faramir (in the books) is that he *IS* "sea-green incorruptible," and that Tolkien makes his "sea-green incorruptibility" work. He demonstrates that one *CAN* be a Wizard's Pupil (in the best sense of the words), that he can be soft (softer than Aragorn), vulnerable (ultimately smitten down on the Field of the Pelennor), and (ur-ultimately) almost preternaturally wise.<BR> <BR>In fact one could argue that he is, rather than Boromir's younger brother, Aragorn's younger brother, at least in spirit, and maybe even in his genes, since, like Aragorn (and Denethor), and unlike Boromir, he brings the line of the Half-elven back to life.<BR> <BR>And this is where I found the greatest lack in the films, one that almost brings me, sadly, to criticize them as ultimately having failed.<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I would agree even if he weren't my brother. None of what was done to the Faramir character in the movie served any purpose that couldn't have been achieved with the words and character Tolkien gave him. If you want to make a true comparison, rent the video when it comes out, fast forward to the Faramir scenes, the stop it. Next, read Tolkien's scenes from the book. Then watch Jackson's scenes. You'll <B>see</B> the difference, because Tolkien's book has always read like a screenplay, it's that vivid.
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Old 01-18-2003, 09:56 PM   #16
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I sat in the theatre crying "Show your quality, man!" (Out loud, natually, ****ing off everybody else.)<BR>That was one of my favourite lines of the books, "Yes sir, and showed your quality: the very highest."<BR>But no quality was shown.... *sigh*
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Old 01-19-2003, 11:56 AM   #17
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It was a character assassination.<BR>PJ probably did it for dramatic purposes. They needed a sort-of-antagonist within the good guys so they turned him into a 'Boromir'. I didn’t like it one bit. In the book, Faramir was the antithesis of his brother. He was noble and decent- someone who wasn’t afraid of doing the right thing even to the disappointment of his father. True, there was distrust between him and Frodo in the beginning. But their mutual respect was evident.<P>We should've seen glints of goodness and nobility in his eyes. Even while he was keeping the poor hobbits against their will. It was obvious in the book that he wasn’t a meanie. In fact he was someone fit to be a king (capable of delivering long pretty speeches ). I think it’s partly the actor's fault. A good actor (like the dude who played Legolas) can exude decency and nobility without speaking a word. Or maybe he was only following PJ’s instructions.<P>Anyway, I cannot believe this no-good villain will end up with you know whoo.<BR>Let’s just hope he endeavors to deserve her. Why, PJ, why? I feel so sorry for the fans of Faramir... <P>but not as sorry for the fans of Haldir. buwahahhahahaaaaa.. <P>sorry.
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Old 01-27-2003, 08:21 PM   #18
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Please Don't blame David Wenham (Faramir) he's a very good actor. Though if you're not an Aussie you won't of seen Sea Change where he plays the nicest guy(Diver Dan) when I heard he was going to play Faramir, I thought yes he's going to be excellent unfortunately the script didn't match expectations. If anyone can play the *redeemed* Faramir, David can.
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Old 01-29-2003, 08:10 PM   #19
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David is a good actor, but the way he was directed to act was 'no bueno'. It seriously made me so mad that he appeared to be the bad guy! And, hes NOTHING like that in the book. thats even worse...SHEESH! for crying out loud, he even said so him self: "im not my brother". But, if thats the way that Peter Jackson wanted him to be portrayed...then God bless him. I only wish that he could have been put out as the (as my grandmother would say) "nice boy" that he really is. I liked Faramir better in the books though. Ohwell
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Old 01-30-2003, 04:12 PM   #20
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I think most of the book readers will feel upset by Faramir's portrayel in the film. I for one was dissapointed. But, on seeing it the second time I feel alittle more.. relieved. it seems that to many people who havent read the books, Famarir turns out to be a hero, and I quote alittle conversation I had with my friend:<BR>Me: "I was dissapointed by Faramir in that, in the book he seemed more of a good guy"<BR>Lex: "Faramir? Oh the brother of that guy..?"<BR>Me: "Yeah. He was more of, well, like a hero in the book"<BR>Lex: "I think he was cool at the end. He let Frodo go at the chance of losing his own life"<BR>Me: "Hmmn, when?"<BR>Lex: "When he says something like 'you know the laws set down by your father, will u accpet the bla bla.."<BR>Me: "Oh yeah, I forgot about that"<BR>Lex: "Yeah see? I know more than you hahah! And your the LOTR expert! (dont you all get that off people too?) Plus he shoots the dragon thing at the end and saves Frodo and Sam"<BR>Me: "Hahah, nice one"<BR>Or something like that.. basically as much as anovice as she is, she is right. Faramir lets them go at the possible penalty of death from his father, and yes he does save their life. So go see the film again, and try not to judge him, this way you'll hopefully see the good things.<P>PS: *POSSIBLE SPOILER??*<BR>But in ROTK he gets shot by several arrows, not a poxy dart, and he survives, hoo-raa, he did something unexpected of a man...
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Old 01-30-2003, 09:21 PM   #21
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Great example, Deiagorn.<P>It is a shame that they missed out much of the wonderful dialogue at Henneth Annun, but Faramir is still portrayed as a good guy. Heck, how can anyone who lets Frodo and Sam go, even though his life will be forfeit be all that bad? Although I still can't understand why Frodo trying to give the Ring to the Nazgul made him think it would be a good idea to let Frodo go on his way to Mordor ... <P>And, hey, Boromir is a hero too, in the end. <p>[ January 30, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]
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Old 01-30-2003, 10:21 PM   #22
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I am in agreement with you, Deiagorn. I am actually writing a story on this how <I>I</I> saw Faramir when I watched the movies, if any of you are interested. It's finished, but not done, if you take my meaning. There are still some parts I am redoing to make it even better.<P>For those of you who say Faramir let them go because Frodo was offering the Ring to the Nazgul, there are two things I'd like to say...<P>1. He <I>wasn't</I> offering the Ring to the Nazgul. If you look, he's actually putting it on. When I first saw the movie I <I>did</I> think he was offering it to the Nazgul, which made me upset (thinking, "Stupid Frodo! What's that for?" ) but on second viewing I realized he was putting the Ring on his finger (of course, Sam luckily stepped in just then).<P>2. How do you know it was Frodo offering (though he wasn't) the Ring to the Nazgul that changed Faramir's mind? When I saw the movie, it was <I>Sam</I> who gave him a change of heart (which my story explains, and, BTW, that's what I saw, not necessarily what <I>did</I> change him). <P>I admit Faramir was not perfect, because, no, he wasn't. But I think it was the whole 'The Ring is going to Gondor' deal that made people see him as a 'badguy.' Of course, I may be wrong, I don't have your eyes or minds. But pretend you're watching the movie and Faramir doesn't bring the hobbits to Osgiliath. Does he seem more of a better person now?<P>I read HC's post on the official Osgiliath thread explaining some reasons why PJ might had Faramir take the hobbits to Osgiliath, and I agree with him.<P>I'm kind of unhappy because many people say Faramir was destroyed. Was he really destroyed, utterly ruined? Was there nothing noble and good about him? He <I>did</I> contrast greatly with his brother. He let them go, while Frodo ran away from Boromir.<P>Navaer, mellynen! I do hope I haven't offended anyone. Remember, nothing I said is a fact (well, with the exception of a few things, like Frodo not offering the Ring to the Nazgul); it's all my opinions and views on the whole matter.
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Old 01-30-2003, 10:41 PM   #23
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> He wasn't offering the Ring to the Nazgul. If you look, he's actually putting it on. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>But surely still not the wisest thing to do when your standing right in front of a Nazgul.
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Old 01-30-2003, 10:46 PM   #24
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>But surely still not the wisest thing to do when your standing right in front of a Nazgul. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, I agree. That's one of the things I still don't understand. Of course, whenever a Nazgul is near Frodo feels the urge to put the Ring on, but that doesn't explain why he has to go running up in <I>front</I> of the Nazgul to do it.
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Old 01-31-2003, 12:11 AM   #25
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Faramir acted poorly. His character in the novels is beyond being 'good' or 'bad'. His intelligence, generosity, cool-headedness and nobility did not come through at all. His one good decision - to set Frodo on his way - seemed to come from lack of intelligence. "Okay Frodo, just walk through East Osgiliath (or however he got across) and through these orc hordes, all the way to Mordor and try not to be seen! Even though the Nazgul KNOW WHERE YOU ARE AND WHAT YOU HAVE!" <P>How will Mithrandir know they are going thorough Minas Morgul and therefore attack the Black Gate to cause distraction and give Frodo and Sam more time?????????<P><BR>But those aren't even the biggest reason for the sequence tasting a tad sour. Oh no, it was the Rangers of Ithilien. They pushed & pulled on the Hobbits very harshly, generally thrashing them around and treating them with ABSOLUTELY NO RESPECT. It gives the distinct impression of a callous people, which is not remedied at all in the Osgiliath scenes, in fact they seem even worse. At least Faramir got to do one good deed.
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Old 01-31-2003, 01:50 PM   #26
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Faramir acted poorly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That's really a matter of opinion, because it depends on how you see him when you're watching the movie. I saw him as acting poorly as well, until the end.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>His intelligence, generosity, cool-headedness and nobility did not come through at all.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Nor did the kindess I knew Galadriel had from the books, until the Extended Edition came out.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>His one good decision - to set Frodo on his way - seemed to come from lack of intelligence. "Okay Frodo, just walk through East Osgiliath (or however he got across) and through these orc hordes, all the way to Mordor and try not to be seen! Even though the Nazgul KNOW WHERE YOU ARE AND WHAT YOU HAVE!"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Did the Nazgul know where Frodo was? I thought he did, until I read Lily Bracegirdle's post on <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001478" TARGET=_blank>The indecisive Nazgul</A>.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Oh no, it was the Rangers of Ithilien. They pushed & pulled on the Hobbits very harshly, generally thrashing them around and treating them with ABSOLUTELY NO RESPECT. It gives the distinct impression of a callous people, which is not remedied at all in the Osgiliath scenes, in fact they seem even worse.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I will just say one thing: I agree with you there.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>At least Faramir got to do one good deed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Maybe two? Everyone in my family thought he was going to smack Smeagol or something like that during that one scene. Hopefully we'll see more of his better side in ROTK.<p>[ January 31, 2003: Message edited by: Nurumaiel ]
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Old 01-31-2003, 03:00 PM   #27
Vardadurwen
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You know, at first I really didn't mind how Faramir's character was....butchered. But after re-reading The Two Towers recently, I realized that movieFaramir was fairly out-of-line. <P>I mean, it really wouldn't have been a big deal if he had been a little nicer to the hobbits. Half the time, he looks quite evil in the movie and wanting to cause people harm. In the books, he is gracious, kind and caring. <P>It's not as though I'm going to work myself into this horrendous state over the portrayal of Faramir; and I'm not going to boycott the movies due to the change of Faramir's character; but I will say that the change to Faramir was probably quite unnecessary. It would have been really great to see him act as the wonderful man he was in the books. The hobbits needed a little uplifting of the spirit at that time, not this scary man who carried them off against their will...and against the actual plot of the story!
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Old 01-31-2003, 05:29 PM   #28
Deiagorn
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The choice is up to you..<P>I agree, being a fan of the book, with high expectations for Faramir, I was dissapointed.<P>But is he less noble? He still shows the same quialities he does in the book, just <B>much</B> later on in the film. By audiances who havent read the book, I think they will fid Faramir to be a noble man, because mainly they think that Faramir will follow the same behaviour as Boromir, especially as his brother is dead. <P>So in finishing i'll say that for whatever reason you all are dissapointed by Faramir compared with the book, i'll agree with you. But does this result in poor acting or a bad character in the film? In my opinion, no.
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