The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
Old 09-22-2022, 12:53 PM   #1
Shade of Carn Dm
Arvegil145's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tol Morwen
Posts: 293
Arvegil145 has just left Hobbiton.
Sting Beren in Dagor Dagorath

So, in his 1958 cursory revision of the Quenta, Tolkien somewhat changed its conclusion, that is, the Second Prophecy of Mandos. (p. 247 of The War of the Jewels)

Some of the changes are:

1) in the revised version, Turin doesn't return from the Halls of Mandos, but from the Doom of Men (from beyond the Circles of the World, from outside of Ea in other words)

2) in the previous version, it was Yavanna who broke the Silmarils and rekindled the Two Trees - in this one, it is Feanor himself who breaks them

3) Tolkien rejected the last two sentences, which go like this:

In that light the Gods will grow young again, and the Elves awake and all their dead arise, and the purpose of Ilvatar be fulfilled concerning them. But of Men in that day the prophecy of Mandos doth not speak, and no Man it names, save Trin only, and to him a place is given among the sons of the Valar.

4) and the final change, or rather an addition, which inspired me to make this thread since I couldn't find any discussion about it online: Beren returns at the end of time!

I guess the purpose of this post is to find out what others might think of this, frankly quite weird addition.

Personally, after spending way too much time thinking about this, my headcanon is that, at that time in Tolkien's life, while Turin was there at the end of the world in order to kill Morgoth (with Gurthang, 'Iron of Death'), Beren might have been intended to vanquish Sauron (maybe with Dagmor, 'Slayer of Darkness', his sword?). (Well, never mind the fact that I don't know of any text that places Sauron at Dagor Dagorath, even though I think it is not completely unreasonable to assume this).

From what I gathered from the many different versions of the end times, it seems that in every one of them Morgoth is vanquished permanently (as in wiped from the face of...well...everything - that is, his very spirit and essence seem to be annihilated). This led me to believe that Sauron, the next in line to Morgoth, so to speak, might suffer the same fate, perhaps by none other than Beren Camlost (who is also thematically tied to Sauron in many, many ways).

So, what do you folks think?
Hige sceal ē heardra, heorte ē cēnre,
mōd sceal ē māre, ē ūre mgen lytla.

Last edited by Arvegil145; 09-22-2022 at 12:57 PM.
Arvegil145 is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:43 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.