The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > The New Silmarillion > Translations from the Elvish - Public Forum
User Name
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
Old 03-25-2003, 03:52 PM   #1
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 41
antoine2 has just left Hobbiton.
Sting * * Valaquenta Some proposals for a new project ... * *

Like i said in the Ainulindalë-projet thread :
The project of Ainulindale need to be merge, i think, with two others sub-project :
- The Valaquenta
- The First Chapter of the Quenta Silmarillion : CRT's Of the beginning of the Days.

This is my changes that i propose for a revised version of the Valaquenta:

{ } Material to be deleted.
Italics Material inserted for grammatical reasons or as editorial bridge.

The text of the Valaquenta can be found in the published Silmarillion (77 or 2001 version).

The names of the Lords in due order are: Manwë, Ulmo, Aulë, Oromë, Mandos, {Lórien} [Lóriën], and Tulkas

With Manwë [now] dwells Varda, Lady of the Stars, who knows all the regions of Eä.
Cf the text of CRT
[The paragraph] has 'With him dwells as wife Varda... -, by emendation to LQ 1 it became With him in Arda dwells as spouse Varda ...'; and in Vq it is 'With Manwë now dwells as spouse Varda...' In 1975, when the main work on the text of the published Silmarillion was done, being then much less clear than I have since become about certain dates and textual relations (and ignorant of the existence of some texts), I did not see that this 'now' could have any significance, and moreover it contributed to the problem of tense in the Valaquenta, which is discussed below; I therefore omitted it. It is however undoubtedly significant. In AAm it is said (p. 49, $3): 'Varda was Manwë's spouse from the beginning, in contrast to the later C 'union' of Yavanna and Aulë 'in a' (on which see under $5 below). But the typescript text of AAm was emended (p. 69, $3) to 'Varda was Manwë's spouse from the beginning of Arda', which shows that some complex conception was present (though never definitively expressed) concerning the time of the 'union' of the great spirits.
The spouse of Aulë [in Arda] is Yavanna, the Giver of Fruits.
Cf the text of CRT
(Yavanna) Here again, as with Varda ($4 above), I wrongly changed the text concerning Yavanna S union with Aulë. Both Vq texts have 'The spouse of Aulë in Arda is Yavanna', and the words 'in Arda' are certainly significant (see V.120).
Námo the elder dwells in Mandos, which is {westward} [northward] in Valinor.
Cf the text of CRT
(Mandos) The editorial change of 'northward' to 'westward' in 'Námo the elder dwells in Mandos, which is northward in Valinor' in the published text (p. 28) is a regrettable error, which I have explained in I.82. - It may be noted here that in the passage in $9 concerning Niënna the change of 'the halls of Mandos, which are nearer and yet more northward' (found from QS to LQ 2) to 'the halls of Mandos, which are near to her own' is not editorial, but is found in the Vq texts.
the Sindar Tauron, the Lord of [the] Forests.
The translation of Tauron should be 'the Lord of the Forests'.

Eönwë, the banner-bearer and herald of Manwë [, whose might in arms is surpassed by none in Arda].
Cf the text of CRT
The words in the published text (p. 30) concerning Eönwë, 'whose might in arms is surpassed by none in Arda', were an editorial addition, made in order to prepare for his leadership of the hosts of the West at the Great Battle (The Silmarillion pp. 251 - 2). For the end of the Elder Days there is scarcely any material from the period following The Lord of the Rings.
We need to decide what to do with this insert of CRT.

[He was humble in the Land of the Blessed; and in Middle-earth he sought no renown. His triumph was in the uprising of the fallen, and his joy was in the renewal of hope.]
Cf the text of CRT
(Olórin) At the end of the account of Olórin is scribbled on the typescript Vq 1: 'He was humble in the Land of the Blessed; and in Middle-earth he sought no renown. His triumph was in the uprising of the fallen, and his joy was in the renewal of hope.'
It was wrongly omitted from The Silmarillion (p. 31).
[Here ends The Valaquenta. If it has passed from the high and beautiful to darkness and ruin, that was of old the fate of Arda Marred; and if any change shall come and the Marring be amended, Manwë and Varda may know; but they have not revealed it, and it is not declared in the dooms of Mandos.]

Editorial insert of CRT
We need to insert the original end.

The Great among these spirits the Elves name the Valar, the Powers of Arda, and Men have often called them gods. The Lords of the Valar {were} /*QS77 are*\ seven; and the Valier, the Queens of the Valar, {were} /*QS77 are*\ seven also.

Manwë and Melkor were brethren in the thought of Ilúvatar. The mightiest of those Ainur who came into the World was in his beginning Melkor; but Manwë is dearest to Ilúvatar and {understood} /*QS77 understands*\ most clearly his purposes.

Out of the deeps of Eä she came to the aid of Manwë; for Melkor she knew from before the making of the Music and rejected him, and he {hates} /*QS77 hated*\ her, and {feares} /*QS77 feared*\ her more
Nonetheless Ulmo {loved} /*QS77 loves*\ both Elves and Men, and never abandoned them, not even when they lay under the wrath of the Valar.

The Fëanturi, masters of spirits, {were} /*QS77 are*\ brethren, and they are called most often Mandos and Lóriën. Yet these are rightly the names of the places of their dwelling, and their true names are Námo and Irmo.

Chief among the Maiar of Valinor whose names are remembered in the histories of the Elder Days {were} /*QS77 are*\ Ilmarë, the handmaid of Varda, and Eönwë, the banner-bearer and herald of Manwë.

Some Problem of Tense.
We follow CRT opinion.

Mightier than Estë is Niënna, {sister of Námo} /*QS77 sister of the Fëanturi*\;
Here i don't know, if we need to follow CRT or not.

I just added the ** to make it an 'official' project thread and rearranged the title of the thread. - lindil

[ March 25, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ]

[ April 06, 2003: Message edited by: antoine2 ]
antoine2 is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:21 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.