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Old 09-16-2003, 07:05 PM   #1
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Ring The elven rings of power

Did they actually HAVE any power? if so, what were they? Also, who was Narya originally given to? I'm pretty sure Cirdan had it at some point, and Gandalf had it when Frodo went to Valinor. And what was Narya made of? Vilya was given to Gilgalad, who gave it to Elrond when he died, right?

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Old 09-17-2003, 01:37 AM   #2
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Yes, they had the power to "ward off the decays of time and postpone the weariness of the world."

And you are correct, Narya was given to Cirdan who gave it to Gandalf when he arrived in ME,it was made from Ruby.
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Old 09-17-2003, 02:58 AM   #3
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If you are really interested, look in the Silmarillion, in the last chapter titled "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age". Their power was indeed to ward off the effects of age and time.
If you know the three as fire water and air/earth you will be able to see some of their power in use during LotR. For example, when Frodo is beset by the Nazgul at the Fords of the Baranduin (?) and the Nazgul enter the river to follow, Elrond sent a massive flood that washed them away. Whether or not he did this consciously or whether it was a protective ward placed on the river so any minion of Sauron would be washed away I'm not certain.
Gandalf had at his command fire- which he uses to fight the wargs in The Hobbit, and Uses at various points during the LotR. As these are combined with his other powers I am confused as to the extent of his own power as it existed apart form the ring.
How do you think Lothlorien became the most beautiful and well tended forest in Middle Earth? Galadriel used Nenya (adamant) to nurture the trees. This is the most obvious warding and slowing of the effects of time.
Tolkien always used Power (note the capital) as a word to describe the arts and destructive power of the Enemy, whereas the Elven 'power' was more closely related to art and subcreation, as opposed to destruction. Hence, the Elven rings would not have granted the bearer masses of power that could be used to destroy their enemies unless they already had it. Galadriel was responsible for the destruction of the walls of Dol Guldur in Mirkwood- Her ring enhanced the large amounts of 'power she already had, as did the rings of Gandlaf and Elrond, who were powerful without them.
It is for this reason that Frodo, even if he had successfully claimed the One Ring, would have only been enhanced in accordance with his own inherent power and stature, so he could have possibly been destroyed by a more powerful being or beings. That is at least how I understand it.

[ September 17, 2003: Message edited by: Halbarad ]
-Halbarad to Aragorn, 'The Passing of the Grey Company' Book V, Return of the King."A little people, but of great worth are the Shire-folk. Little do they know of our long labour for the safekeeping of their borders, and yet I grudge it not"
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Old 09-17-2003, 04:23 AM   #4
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...Galadriel used Vanya (adamant)...
Hmmm... I think Galadriel's ring is called Nenya... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[ September 17, 2003: Message edited by: Menelhachwen ]
"For the world is changing: I feel it in the water, I feel it in the earth, and I smell it in the air"
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Old 09-17-2003, 11:37 AM   #5
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I am confused as to the extent of his own power as it existed apart from the ring
I have that problem with all of the ring bearers. For instance, Elrond's ability to send a massive flood down his river may have little to do with his ring (at the most, the ring would maybe just help him make the flood bigger). And also, if I'm not mistaking, he actually has the ring of air, not of water.

As far as Gandalf's use of physical fire, it may have little to do with his ring of fire. I recall Cirdan saying something about using the ring of fire to kindle hearts and move them.

Here's what Tolkien said about the rings in Letter 131-
The chief power (of all the rings alike) was the prevention or slowing of decay (i.e. 'change' viewed as a regrettable thing), the preservation of what is desired or loved, or its semblance - this is more or less an Elvish motive. But also they enhanced the natural powers of a possessor - thus approaching 'magic', a motive easily corruptible into evil, a lust for domination.
So, if the rings just "enhanced" power, that means whatever the bearers could do with the ring, they could do without it. It's not as if it gave them new abilities, it just improved certain abilities they already possessed (and who knows exactly which ones).
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Old 09-17-2003, 06:36 PM   #6
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I knew that Narya had a red stone, but I wanted to know what the actual ring part was. eg: vilya was gold, Nenya was mithril.

I'm not sure if this is accurate, it came from a video game. But at the beginning of a LOTR game, Galadriel says "the world is changed etc etc.(the etc's werent actually there, obviously) And nine were given to the race of Men, who above all else desired power. For within these rings was bound the strength to govern (something, I forgot)"
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Old 09-17-2003, 07:02 PM   #7
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For within these rings was bound the strength to govern
I think this was just a creation of the movie. The rings were not created for other races, although Durin was given his ring by the elves, but were for the most part for the elves. The rings were not created to govern or control others, but to bring healing to middle earth.
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Old 09-19-2003, 11:28 AM   #8
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At least in here we do fully agree, the phantom [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

The Three Rings were made long ago, just like many lesser rings, and the Seven and the Nine, in Eregion. There Celebrimbor, grandson of Feanor, made the Three (Narya, Nenya and Vilya) and they were his greatest so far. Sauron however had thought the craft of Ring-making and wanted to submit them and made the One, yet the Elves percieved him while he finished making it. They hid the Three from Sauron.
- Nenya (Ring of Water) went to Galadriel and was there still after the destruction of the One.
- Narya was given to Cirdan of the Havens, who awaited the arrival of the Istari and gave the Ring to Gandalf, though he came last, for Cirdan forsaw great perils and deeds in Gandalf's future.
- Vilya was given to Gil-Galad, who was at that time High King of the Noldor, but he gave to his Elrond.
Sauron has ever searched for their hiding places, until he knew that the One was found.
In lotR - the Council of Elrond, Gloin asks where the Three are, if they are idle, what the Elves are doing with them. Elrond answers:

The Three were not made by Sauron, not did he ever touch them. But of them it is not permitted to speak. So much only in this hour of doubt I may now say. They are not idle. But they were not made as weapons of war or conquest: that is not their power. Those who made them did not desire strenght or domination or hoarded wealth, but understanding, making, and healing, to preserve all things unstained. These things the Elves of Middle-earth have in some measure gained, though with sorrow. But all that has been wrought by those who wield the Three will turn to their undoing, and their minds and hearts will become reveiled to Sauron, if he regains the One. It would be better if the Three had never been. That is his purpose.'
Galadriel clearly used the Ring to preserve the land of Lothlorien, and therefore I guess there was the weird experience with Time there. I don't know how Elrond used the Ring. Maybe by healing Frodo. Aragorn says something like: 'Only in Imladris, at Elrond's home, there is such power of Healing still. And Imladris is hard to find, maybe that has something to do with Vilya as well, but it is mere guessing.
Gandalf used Narya to give people hope and rekindle hearts from despair and fear, and I think the greatest example for this is found in Minas Tirith. Wherever he went people's spirits would lift and despair would fall from them.

Of course, the Silmarillion will tell you loads more about the Three, as Halbarad has pointed out. This is the best I could do.

'You?' cried Frodo.
'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'
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Old 09-20-2003, 07:32 AM   #9
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Right, lathspell.

Before Sauron cruelly killed Celebrimbor, the creator of the elven rings, for not revealing them to him, he sent one (Nenya, the ring of water made from adamant) to Galadriel, and the 2 others to my husband [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] , Gil-galad, for protection against Sauron. When Gil-galad died [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] , he gave Vilya, the most powerful of the Three, the ring of air made from sapphire (if I'm not mistaken) to Elrond, his herald. Then he gave Narya, the ring of fire made from ruby, I guess, to Cirdan. Then Cirdan gave Narya to Gandalf upon his coming to ME, for he knew that Gandalf had come from the West and could be trusted. Just read the Appendix of RotK for what Cirdan said upon giving Narya to Gandalf. That statement revealed what Gandalf could do with Narya.

While Sauron still wielded the One, they could not wear the Three, for it would reveal their locations and Sauron could easily get them. So they were only able to wear it upon the loss of the One from the hand of Sauron, as we have seen Galadriel showing it to Frodo in Lothlorien.

Hope I helped... [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ September 20, 2003: Message edited by: Lhunardawen ]
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