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Old 09-06-2022, 11:13 AM   #401
Tar Elenion
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Originally Posted by Bęthberry View Post
I didn't "read" that as a racial statement because of the casting of a black actor and "ideopolitical messaging". I read it as typifying the harfoots' uneasy relationship with elves, all elves. There are several examples which show that the harfoots don't like or don't trust the elves but I haven't committed them to memory.

As for the elves, I "read" Galadriel's comment to Elrond that he has not been invited to the high table because that is for elf lords as suggesting the arrogance of elves (which is highly attested to in Tolkien's work) about Elrond's status as only half-elven. I suspect we will see Elrond earn his status as elf lord just as we will see the peoples of Middle-earth come together. very Tolkien that.
It was not the *Harfoots, nor *Galadriel.
One was a white boy southlander with a stereotypical 'alt-right' hair cut throwing out "racial slurs" (lifted from some fantasy franchise, that I am unfamiliar with) and using the "you people" line to a black man.

The other was an *elf-woman servant. I took it that as a pathetically ignorant breaking of the lore. But yeah it could be read with a focus on it as 'you are a half-breed'.
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Old 09-06-2022, 11:17 AM   #402
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Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
Viewed apart from Tolkien (which is hard to do in places), the story is... fine. . And the Harfeet are a positive delight.

Overall, my expectations have lowered slightly, but I enjoyed it, and will still watch the second episode when I get the chance. It works. It's fine - and I hope, when the plot gets its feet under it, it can graduate to "good".

hS
I agree that there were things well done. It is visually a delight. I liked the Harfoot tribe more than the hobbits in the Jackson movies because they appeared more anthropologically suitable and less cutesy nostalgic. And they were depicted as a tribe and not only as individuals.

Khazad Dum was stunning. It was good to see the dwarves depicted respectfully rather than comically (although I could have done without the belching and burping).They clearly have a well developed culture and I"m sure that will play into later episodes.

I"m not someone who was overly fond of the Jackson movies, shall we say, and I wasn't excited by the news of this series but having ignored the hype I found RoP something watchable.

And I'm glad to see you writing of things you enjoyed or thought were well done. I'd hate to see new potential members turned away by criticisms that are disdainfully expressed.

https://scontent.fymy1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...Kg&oe=631BD51D

EDIT: Attached a photo that Brian Sibley has posted on FB, of a carving of a bird and baby in stone decorations. It was presented in a session at the Tolkien Society's 2022 Oxonmoot by Ramsey Avery – Production Designer for TLOTR: TROP .
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Old 09-06-2022, 11:47 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by Tar Elenion View Post
It was not the *Harfoots, nor was *Galadriel.
One was a white boy with a stereotypical 'alt-right' hair cut throwing out "racial slurs" (lifted from some fantasy franchise, that I am unfamiliar with) and using the "you people" line to a black man.

The other was an *elf-woman servant. I took it that as a pathetically ignorant breaking of the lore. But yeah it could be read with a focus on it as 'you are a half-breed'.
Yes, I know who you meant but yes I'm wrong he was Harfoot. The "white boy" is the son of the human Bronwyn who is the healer of the village of Tirharad and my son and I both think that his hair is deliberately designed to mask his ears. I didn't think of his hair as a stereotypical 'alt right' hair cut but then I didn't know there was such a hair cut. His friend Rowan is less trusting of elves than he is. It's a man/elf thing.

I wouldn't be surprised if the half-elven Elrond plays out some similar anxieties as Spock does.

As for elf servants, all those whispy flowing robes confuse me and I've seen the episode but once. thanks for clarifying my mistakes.
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Old 09-06-2022, 12:08 PM   #404
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"Knife-ears" is a derogatory term for Elves taken from the Dragon Age series of videogames, in which they are an oppressed underclass (often servants).
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Old 09-06-2022, 12:08 PM   #405
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Yes, I know who you meant but yes I'm wrong he was Harfoot. The "white boy" is the son of the human Bronwyn who is the healer of the village of Tirharad and my son and I both think that his hair is deliberately designed to mask his ears. I didn't think of his hair as a stereotypical 'alt right' hair cut but then I didn't know there was such a hair cut. His friend Rowan is less trusting of elves than he is. It's a man/elf thing.

I wouldn't be surprised if the half-elven Elrond plays out some similar anxieties as Spock does.

As for elf servants, all those whispy flowing robes confuse me and I've seen the episode but once. thanks for clarifying my mistakes.
The "white boy" with the "alt-right" hair using racial-slurs and "you people" to the black *Elf (Arondir) is not Theo the son Bronwyn it was Theo's friend. Rowan, if you are correct (I don't know what his name is).

Vulcan Elves now? Well, Arondir is sort of coming off that way so far.
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Old 09-06-2022, 12:12 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin View Post
"Knife-ears" is a derogatory term for Elves taken from the Dragon Age series of videogames, in which they are an oppressed underclass (often servants).
And Tolkien had a perfectly good 'racial-slur' that the Easterlings (seemingly represented by these Southlanders) used for Elves...
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Old 09-06-2022, 01:07 PM   #407
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I do find it interesting that in the one part of Middle-earth in which Tolkien unmistakably placed POC, Harad, the showrunners have chosen to put white people.
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Old 09-06-2022, 01:53 PM   #408
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I do find it interesting that in the one part of Middle-earth in which Tolkien unmistakably placed POC, Harad, the showrunners have chosen to put white people.
The map flyover was a bit vague in that. I think it originally placed the "Southlands" label east of Mordor, then later zoomed out from the lower Anduin. I guess "south" is relative to Lindon?

hS
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Old 09-06-2022, 03:51 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by Tar Elenion View Post
The "white boy" with the "alt-right" hair using racial-slurs and "you people" to the black *Elf (Arondir) is not Theo the son Bronwyn it was Theo's friend. Rowan, if you are correct (I don't know what his name is).
So you call that blondeish hair a
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stereotypical 'alt-right' hair cut
. I can't see it, but as I said, I don't know there is such a stereotypical hair cut. I do see Theo's hair cut as a bit weird but the straw-haired cut is no big deal for me.

Rowan isn't highlighted in many of the cast lists but he is in one from (gulp) One Wiki to Rule them All. https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Rowan_(Southlands)
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Old 09-06-2022, 05:08 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by Bęthberry View Post
So you call that blondeish hair a . I can't see it, but as I said, I don't know there is such a stereotypical hair cut. I do see Theo's hair cut as a bit weird but the straw-haired cut is no big deal for me.

Rowan isn't highlighted in many of the cast lists but he is in one from (gulp) One Wiki to Rule them All. https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Rowan_(Southlands)
Yes. A stereotypical "alt-right" haircut. shorter at the side and back. Longer in the front.
I don't know why you think it was Theo that I was referring to when I noted the racist "knife-ears" and "you people" speech from the white boy.
Did the version you saw have Theo saying? Or are you just confused?

I did not say anything about the hair cut being "weird", I described the character.
So again white boy with alt-right hair cut using racially charged in a modern sense speech claimed to be racist ("you people") to a black man.
But no ideopolitical messaging.
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Old 09-06-2022, 05:16 PM   #411
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That's an alt-right hair cut? I thought it was Justin Bieber?

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Old 09-06-2022, 05:33 PM   #412
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https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2017...f-e27ecdf00000

How America's Alt-right Got Its Signature Hairstyle
A hairstyle that's shaved on the sides and long on top went from being a hipster affectation to a neo-fascist show of force.
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Old 09-06-2022, 05:39 PM   #413
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Aren’t we getting more than a bit far afield? Can we please move on?

Thank you.
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