Gollum...lembas?

[Sleepy Ranger]

I don't think its been done before so here it is...
How did Gollum manage to touch the Lembas. Isn't it supposed to like burn him and isn't he suppose to hate nassty lembas...'cause nasssty elvesss made it?
Opinions?

[Imladris]

Well, I do remember juggling several hot potatoes in my time. ;)

I doubt that it was extreme physical pain...more a burning discomfort.

Actually, I think it was the rope that burned him...but it might have been both.

Cheers!
Istawen

[Sleepy Ranger]

That would be all things pure that hurt Gollum so do the sun and moon. I have no quote handy. But they do.

[Firefoot]

It wasn't touching the lembas that made Gollum uncomfortable... it didn't even burn him. He didn't like the way it smelled and it choked him to eat it. He couldn't eat it because the Elves made it. I'm paraphrasing for a quote at the very beginning of "The Passage of the Marshes". It's somewhat longish, but it is the part just before the second break in the text.

[Lobelia]

True, it did seem to be eating it that harmed him. What I always wondered was why he never complained about travelling by day? In the novel, he really did NOT like the Yellow Face, no, not at all, precious! Oh, well.

[Kidd2323]

In the book, he sniffed it and instantly knew the elves created it.
I think he took a small bite and spat it out saying it choked him, almost gasping for air?

[Eowyn Skywalker]

True, he shouldn't've been able to touch it. It was eating it that made him burn, but even touching it, now that he knew that it was made by the nassssssty elves, should've bothered him.
I didn't like that scene in the movie, and he shouldn't've been able to do that, now that I think about it.
Oh well
-Eowyn Skywalker

[King Elessar]

when he had the rope around him, i think he said

"aaaaaaaargh it burn, it burns us, it freezes! take it off us! we swear to do what you wants"

and when he ate the lembas

"ach! we can't eat .. food!"

i didn't hear what the .. bit was

[The Only Real Estel]

True, he shouldn't've been able to touch it. It was eating it that made him burn, but even touching it, now that he knew that it was made by the nassssssty elves, should've bothered him.

Interesting, maybe my book-memory is a bit hazy, but I don't remember Gollum being 'burned' by the touch of the lembas (actually, I don't even remember if he touched it at all). The taste of it choked him & must've tasted nasty (like other people already said in this post), but it was only the elven rope that burned him, & only because elves 'twisted it'. I doubt that the bread burned him to touch it just because elves baked it, but if anyone can show me an exact quote from the book that says the touch burned him, then I'll accept it.

[Thorongil]

i didn't hear what the .. bit was

I think it was

We can't eat hobbits food

[Sharkû]

9 replies and not a single book quote? This really is the Movies forum ;)

"Frodo broke off a portion of a wafer and handed it to him on its leaf-wrapping. Gollum sniffed at the leaf and his face changed: a spasm of disgust came over it, and a hint of his old malice. `Sméagol smells it! ' he said. `Leaves out of the elf-country, gah! They stinks. He climbed in those trees, and he couldn't wash the smell off his hands, my nice hands.' Dropping the leaf, he took a corner of the lembas and nibbled it." He spat, and a fit of coughing shook him." (LR IV,2)

[Lord Tyler Neflonde]

Even if it did hurt to touch, getting rid of Sam would mean Gollum would have an easier time getting the Ring back. I'm sure he'd be willing to toss away Lembas to make things easier for him.

[Knight of Gondor]

There's also a bit of a discrepancy because Gollum pawed Frodo (including the Elf-cloak) when Frodo was considering whether or not to trust Gollum to take him in to Mordor, after he had pulled both he and Sam back from lunching in to the Black Gate. Oughtn't the cloak have hurt?

[The Only Real Estel]

Oughtn't the cloak have hurt?

Does it ever say that it does in the books? I can't remember if it does or not, but maybe it was just the rope, since it was meant to restrain him...I don't know. I had a really cool thing that made a lot of sense all thought out in my head, but I forgot half of it & the other half sounded dumb by itself :p...

[The Only Real Estel]

Just to touch on my own post (above) in this oldish thread. It actually did say in the books that Gollum 'still avoided the touch of their cloaks', which I had not remembered. I guess PJ didn't bother with it because he wanted to simplify the plot, him not likeing the lembas barely made it to the EE. Or maybe Peter didn't mind because he'd forgotten about that part in the books, in which case it would give me a reason to justify myself :p.

[Morsul the Dark]

i think gollum was just a hypocandriac.......i think he only claimed the rope burned and freezed because he knew frodo was in control so he was just trying to make a nusence of himslef so theyd untie him so hed be able to the the precious and runaway without a leash they could grab

[The Only Real Estel]

i think gollum was just a hypocandriac.......i think he only claimed the rope burned and freezed because he knew frodo was in control so he was just trying to make a nusence of himslef so theyd untie him so hed be able to the the precious and runaway without a leash they could grab

It states in the book that Frodo was convinced he really was in pain, & I doubt even Gollum could dupe Frodo with an act. Besides, like I said above, it also states that he avoided the touch of their elven cloaks. He had no motivation to pretend that those hurt him, so it must've been that they really did hurt/burn him.

[Silmiel of Imladris]

Hey everybody. I am back with a new Dell laptop. :smokin: Anyway, the Lembas did have a leaf wrapper around them that Gollum could probably touch. He also may have been over exaggerating when it comes to elf things. What I want to know is why did he get this way over things made by the elves? Was it because of what the ring did to him or was it because he was captured by the woodelves and 'really' hated them for it?

[The Only Real Estel]

Welcome back, Silmiel :)

I'd imagine it was because of what the Ring did to him. Kinda made him hate all good things (especially truly pure things, like elves, I'm guessing), but I'm sure he wasn't happy with the elves or they're land after their imprisonment of him.

[Kath]

Look the whole scene was stupid. I mean it never happened in the book, and I'll grant artistic license if and only if it can be backed up by proof. Since there is now an entire thread on the discrepancies of the scene, proof seems pretty much non-existant. Gollum takes hold of an elven leaf and crumbles the bread onto Sam whilst making enough noise to wake the dead. The crumbs had all fallen off Sam's jacket before Gollum pointed them out.
I really don't like that scene but I'm sorry if I just turned into crazy obssessed fanatic.

[The Only Real Estel]

I mean it never happened in the book, and I'll grant artistic license if and only if it can be backed up by proof. Since there is now an entire thread on the discrepancies of the scene, proof seems pretty much non-existant. Gollum takes hold of an elven leaf...

Well, the reason their's a whole thread devoted to the discrepancies of the scene is because the thread is about the discrepancies of it. If we had a thread devoted to the proof of it, it would be a short one because there's only one item of proof (the only one that matters at least). If you want proof to back up the artistic license that PJ has obtained (luckily), here it is:

The proof for the scene is Peter Jackson didn't want to confuse the audience with a seemingly meaningless 'Gollum aversion' to Elvish things. Sure, he put it the lembas-choking scene, but that wasn't even important enough to make the Theatrical Release, why should he further go into Gollum avoiding the touch of the leaf wrappings? Besides, I don't think PJ went with Tolien's concept of 'leaf wrappings', Tolkien's seemed to be acutal leaves, while PJ's were pretty much just packages that were decorated to look like leaves. There's a pretty big difference there.

...and crumbles the bread onto Sam whilst making enough noise to wake the dead. The crumbs had all fallen off Sam's jacket before Gollum pointed them out

Well, I know if I had had as little sleep as Sam & Frodo, & could've been attacked by Dead & slept through it (whether I woke again or not :p)! As for the crumbs having already 'fallen off' of Sam's jacket, that's simply an error in the movie, & there are plenty more like them. Just take it as Jackson meant it to be...

[Kath]

But the aversion wasn't meaningless! Gollum is supposed to be this creature that while once good is now intrinsically evil. As elves are meant to be like the embodiment of all things good then Gollum being unable to touch things made by them would actually be a good way to show his nature.

[Guinevere]

why should he further go into Gollum avoiding the touch of the leaf wrappings? Besides, I don't think PJ went with Tolkien's concept of 'leaf wrappings',
In the book it says (as Sharku quoted above) :
"Frodo broke off a portion of a wafer and handed it to him on its leaf-wrapping"
where as in the sequence on the DVD, Frodo broke off a tiny bit and flung it (without leaf wrapper) in Gollum's direction, so he had to pick it up from the ground.
This seems perhaps a small change, but it annoys me because it shows such a different attitude! In the movie Frodo shows contempt and disgust of Gollum ("Don't touch me!") but Book- Frodo showed pity and the real wish to help Gollum:"I'm sorry," said Frodo; "but I can't help you, I'm afraid. I think this food would do you good, if you would try. But perhaps you can't even try, not yet anyway."

[The Only Real Estel]

But the aversion wasn't meaningless! Gollum is supposed to be this creature that while once good is now intrinsically evil. As elves are meant to be like the embodiment of all things good then Gollum being unable to touch things made by them would actually be a good way to show his nature.

That's true, but the aversion is not needed to further the plot, perhaps I should've put it that way.

This seems perhaps a small change, but it annoys me because it shows such a different attitude! In the movie Frodo shows contempt and disgust of Gollum ("Don't touch me!") but Book- Frodo showed pity and the real wish to help Gollum:

Movie Frodo is certainly different from book Frodo in many ways, & you pointing out the lembas sequence is one that I really hadn't noticed before. Although Frodo treats Gollum with enough pity at times ("I want to help him Sam."), he seems to have mood swings on the issue. Although I think the "Don't touch me" was perhaps directed to Gollum more out of fear of him touching his Ring than anything.

[Kath]

Hmm, I suppose thats a good reason for it to be left out, though it would have made Gollums character more layered. I think thats why it really bothers me, that its supposed to be evil gollum and good smeagol. But in this scene he is smeagol still, and yet he's evil. Ooh then thats actually really good. Ignore all previous statements as I have just got where PJ was heading with this!

[Elf @ Heart]

Didn't Gollum touch the leaf around the lembas, instead of the actual lembas bread? I'm not sure if the leaf would have the same effect on gollum as the actual bread, since it was not made by the elves but grown by them. :)

[The Only Real Estel]

Didn't Gollum touch the leaf around the lembas, instead of the actual lembas bread?

At first I think that's all he touched, but then he took the bread out so that he could crumble part of one onto Sam's elvin cloak.

[Kath]

"Frodo broke off a portion of a wafer and handed it to him on its leaf-wrapping. Gollum sniffed at the leaf and his face changed: a spasm of disgust came over it, and a hint of his old malice. `Sméagol smells it! ' he said. `Leaves out of the elf-country, gah! They stinks. He climbed in those trees, and he couldn't wash the smell off his hands, my nice hands.' Dropping the leaf, he took a corner of the lembas and nibbled it." He spat, and a fit of coughing shook him."
There has already been a discussion on how the leaves affected Gollum and this quote pretty much finished it.