The Warg and Warg Rider Appreciation Thread [Archive] - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

SamwiseGamgee

03-23-2004, 04:44 AM

I now return, glad to recount tales of wargs and their exploits. I feel now is as good a time as any to tell the story of my time in Bhutan, and the famous sight I saw of Yeti and Warg, locked in mortal combat.
I was first sent to Bhutan as part of a BBC research team. We had been sent in order to seek out evidence of two of the greatest legends of all time: the yeti and the black mountain warg. I had spent 25 nights in Bhutan without ever having seen anything other than squirrels and bears. We had split our group up and I had camped out on a plateau known to the locals as 'Shuekwasho', that is 'the place of the warg'. It was on the 26th night that my luck perked up.
At about 2am I made my first sighting of a yeti. It was a huge creature. Nearly 9 ft tall and covered in short, coarse, black hair. It had features like a man, yet different in some slight, indistinguishable way. He came quite near my tent and was making intimidating noises. This continued for another half hour, and as it did so I became more and more tense.
It is a well known fact among the native mountain trackers of Bhutan that Yetis do not take fondly to humans. Legend would have them believe that any mortal who is not worthy to look upon the Yeti but does so will surely die. Just as the Yeti seemed to be preparing for its assault on my tent he was attacked by a warg. The warg was huge. At least 11 ft long, about 7ft tall and perhaps 6ft broad at the shoulders. His great black fur shone in the full moon of the mountains and his silvery mane flowed majestically down his spine! He plunged upon the Yeti like a great noble knight! The Yeti fought him off and in moments these two mythical warriors were embroiled in a battle, nay war, of titanic proportions. For the next hour the two fought each other viciously and without rest. There was blood aplenty and at one point the Yeti even lost his right eye- a specimen which I still have- in a particularly gruesome gouge.
The battle, however, could not continue forever. The warg was gaining the upper hand and the Yeti was in serious trouble. He soon realised that against a great black mountain warg there can be no victory, and so skulked off into the dawn mists to die alone.
The warg stood there, steam rising from his exhausted body, somewhere between a shadow and reality. A great, black silhouette against the breathtaking scenery of the Bhutanese Alps at dawn. There he stood, King of Beasts, Lord of Battle and Noble Protector. For there he stayed, laying down after a short while, until the voices of my trackers could be heard and he knew I would be safe from the murderous Yeti.
And so he passed into the forests and forever from my sight. I have told many my story, though few believe. I admit, even I may have formerly been a sceptic. However, when one has seen the great black mountain warg one knows that he is no mere mortal warg, he is as the Bhutanese locals say a 'Diuesal'- a protector from the gods.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

03-23-2004, 08:46 AM

I am in awe of your tale Samwise. I really cannot say anything else except that I am so happy that you have experienced such a thing. :)

I am still compiling the full tale of the Battle of Mirkwood so I will post it next time. Until then, a word of advice Samwise. Your signature is very cool, but it is over large and you may irk the moderators by keeping it. Perhaps make it smaller?

SamwiseGamgee

03-23-2004, 09:19 AM

Ah, tis true. I had not realised just how large font size 7 would be! As large as a small pony, it emerged!
I await with bated breath the epic tale of the Battle of Mirkwood and hope that it will live up to my expectations, though I am almost positive it will. It's a battle with wargs in, what more could I want?

Eomer of the Rohirrim

03-24-2004, 07:34 AM

The Battle Of Mirkwood, as told by an anonymous Elf several years after the event.

It took place in the south-west of Mirkwood in a place considered an Elven stronghold. The army stationed there was huge. However, they had met their match. The Orc captain Gorgomoth had become crazed in his attempts to destroy the Elves of Mirkwood, and had ploughed all of his strength into the assault. Middle-earth braced itself for a climactic battle that would surely alter the course of history.

It did. Hundreds of thousands of Elves were massacred by the Orcs, who lost a vast proportion of their force themselves. However, the outcome was in no real doubt. The Orcs were too many and the Elves would surely fall.

It was when all hope was gone when the Elves heard the ominous sound of howling on the wind. Wargs - thousands and thousands of Wargs. The Elves braced themselves for the end of their lives.

But no! The Wargs turned on the Orcs, their former allies. With vigour they ripped and tore into the terrified Orcs. Oh the humanity! The blood of the Orcs rained down on the beautiful trees of Mirkwood. When the slaughter was complete the Wargs left with no explanation of their deeds. None was needed. The Elves of Mirkwood were saved all because of the Good Wargs who had come out of Rohan.

Without a doubt, this battle is what changed the common conception of the Warg forever. No more were they considered all evil. From now on the Peoples of Middle-earth never knew what to expect from Wargs. On the one side there were still evil Wargs who served the Orc captains. However, on the other side was a tremendous host of good Wargs, bent on doing great and glorious deeds and properly utilizing the extraordinary and wondrous talents given to them by a truly perfect God.

SamwiseGamgee

03-24-2004, 08:22 AM

It is trully delightful to share such epic stories of wargs and their varied natures with one who so clearly shares my views and opinions.
Wargs are a strange enigma. Neither wholly good nor wholly evil. They are perhaps the exception to many rules. Few know why wargs obey anyone, with their razor sharp wit and brain powers. One suggestion is that it is not a true warg who serves the orcs. I disagree. even the mightiest of beings (and wargs are counted among them) can be warped by evil. Take Saruman, for example.
So, a warg is perhaps rather like Tom Bombadil-neither clearly good or clearly evil.
Who knows? It could just as easily been a warg who had aided the hobbits in their quest, perhaps a far off descendant of the wargs of Rohan? Perhaps Tom Bombadil was even a warg? It is a puzzling perplexion which I feel could be a fine debate. Before that, though, I'd like to hear more of the origins of the wargs of Rohan. How did they come to be there? Whom did they serve? Were they gifts from Eru or emissaries of the Valar?

Eomer of the Rohirrim

03-25-2004, 07:06 AM

Was Tom Bombadil a Warg? Sounds like a fantastic debate and one which I am looking forward to.

Concerning the Wargs of Rohan. They moved into Rohan during a harsh period for the Men of Rohan. Their numbers were dwindling and they were constantly threatened by nearby Orcs. No-one knew where the Wargs came from. All they knew was that they acted friendly towards the Men and protected them from many evils. The Elves of Mirkwood did not know about this relationship because communication between Mirkwood and Rohan was tricky in those days.

I do wonder if Wargs can be considered Bombadil-esque. If we consider it, we can see that the origins of Men and Elves and Dwarves and Ents are given explanation. Even Hobbits are explained better than Wargs are, being linked closely to Men. To not explain the origins of Wargs (especially considering how potent their powers are) was a strange ommision by the Good Professor.

Without putting much thought into, my initial guess would be that Wargs are simply servants (?) of the Valar. Feel free to challenge this claim.

SamwiseGamgee

03-25-2004, 01:28 PM

Have you, pray tell, Eomer, ever heard the story of the wargs of the Brown Lands, who pursued a brutal quest of honour against the elven folks. If not let me know and I shall share the story. It is one of treachery and deceit which reduces one's faith in the warg while similarly increasing one's respect. It's a paradoxical tale which I look forward to sharing.
Here's a good one: if wargs are servants of the Valar then perhaps they are Maiai, and couldn't that theoretically make a warg as powerful as Sauron? An interesting thought.

Amariden Ravenhill

03-26-2004, 02:37 AM

:eek: Hail and well met, Eomer of the Rohirrim and Samwise Gamgee! I have been reading at length the stories aforementioned. :D I have not had the excitement of having such journies nor do I know many of the Elven folk (save one) for my friends and neighbors would think it unseemly for any Hobbit to do so....alas! :confused:

SamwiseGamgee

03-26-2004, 06:45 AM

Welcome, Ravenhill, to the inner sanctum of we warg-lovers (non-carnal).
Surely you have heard stories of wargs in your long travels. They need not have anything to do with elven folks, that is purely incidental. The most important thing is that they are about wargs. Surely you can think back. Go on, Ravenhill!
The story of the wargs of the Brown Lands is coming just as soon as I am assured there's an appetite for it, by the by.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

03-26-2004, 07:30 AM

It is indeed delightful to hear of another Downer who is enthralled by Wargs, hail Amariden Ravenhill!

Samwise, please share this tale of the Wargs of the Brown Lands. If you do not post it soon then I may explode with anticipation. :D

On another point, I think that if Wargs were Maia then their powers had to have been concealed, much like the Istari. There is certainly no tale of a Warg ever challenging Sauron for mastery of Middle-earth that I have heard of. Speaking of the Istari, has anyone ever considered the possibility that Allatar and Pallando were Wargs? I have. Several times.

Maybe Sauron himself was an evil Warg. Though perhaps thats a bit far fetched.

SamwiseGamgee

03-27-2004, 05:51 AM

For many years the elves of the Brown Lands had been defended by the valiant elves of Rivendell. Few knew why, but stories and legends suggest thet the Rhun Hills possessed some kind of great magical power, dark and evil.
The attackers of this noble cause were a motley crew of orcs, dark knights, mumakil, mountain trolls and evil ents. This band of evil warriors was led by one whose name you may have already heard: Gorgomoth. He was a great general of Mordor, cruel and unusual in his methods. However, even the great tactical mind of Gorgomoth was ineffectual against the stalwart nobility of Elrond's elves.
It was stalemate.
One evening, though, while his troops were beating another helpless captive and he feasted upon the flesh of another it came to him. There was one weapon he could use. A great power which few dare to even think about. With great haste Gorgomoth sent out the word: 'Call for Kharak the Cruel.' Even the orcs were afraid.
Within days the call was answered, and into the orc encampment stalked Kharak the Cruel. He was a massive creature, dwarfing all around him and sending their blood into the lower echelons of the temperature range. His fur was grey and his mane sparkled silver in the moonlight. His left eye was a scar, closed forever by Beorn the Cursed, as Kharak had named the defender of the Carrock. His single eye was glowing black. A vast abyss of pain and suffering which Gorgomoth felt must be like looking into the Great Red Eye. What was this creature- Kharak the Cruel? A warg. But no mere warg, he was Kharak the Cruel, King of the Wargs of Moria, and he was as death.
Gorgomoth presented his case to Kharak, and the great King was intrigued. Many years before the elves of Imraldis had killed his son and heir to the throne while he hunted. Kharak had never slept since, pouring all his malice and pain and loss into making the elves pay for their treachery. Long ago Kharak's forefathers had saved the elves from an orcish attack in Mirkwood, and this is how the honourless pointy ears repayed the wargs!
Kharak let out a howl, cold and terrifying. It was as the heinous wailing of a child watching his mother being beaten by a robber. To the orcs it was fearful and stirred in many of them the memory of that fateful night many years ago in Mirkwood, and for Gorgomoth it made him wonder if he had made the right decision.
Over the valley, though, the elvenfolk heard the cry and remembered! They were glad! At last, the heirs of Mhuruk the Magnificent, the famous King of Wargs who had saved the elves in Mirkwood, had returned to save the elves. There was joy and rejoicing as a great host of wargs appeared on the crest of a hill and ran toward the elves.
As the host of wargs came closer, though, many elves realised this was no friendly committee- this was the warhost of Kharak!
The wargs plunged into the elves and tore them to shreds as warm knives through butter. There was pain and suffering and upon that night many an elf lost his life, the brutal justice of the warg judge, jury and executioner known as Kharak being felt in its full wrath! Some elves escaped and fled north. Kharak and his host tarried for a while, making sure that every elf had been killed and made to pay.
Kharak then called to him his most trusted brothers and they numbered one and twenty. This kingshost then plunged north in pursuit of the elves who had escaped. The trail of death and punishment stretched through South Rhun, North Rhun, the Withered Heath and finally it came to an end on the slopes of Erebor, deep in Esgaroth. With the kingshost behind them the remaining elves realised that they had been caught in a great trap, and there on the borders of North Mirkwood stood the remainder of the warg warhost. The elves were caught and the revenge of Kharak was swift and decisive. His vengeance was furious and filled even his fellow warg with a great pain and fear. Kharak last feasted on the flesh of the elven general and went home to his halls in Moria through Mirkwood, though it was an elven stronghold, in safety, for even the great elvenfolk of Mirkwood were afraid to incur the wrath of a warg.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

03-27-2004, 11:56 AM

Why on Earth did the Elves kill Kharak's son?

SamwiseGamgee

03-27-2004, 12:47 PM

It is generally understood that Ghrutu, son of Kharak and heir to Moria was killed for ransacking and generally creating bother on the elven borders, and so the elves must be just.
However, the truth is that a young, inexperienced elven archer panicked when he saw Ghrutu, falsely believing him to be a foe.
It was the latter that Kharak knew and hence his furious vengeance.
Does that answer your query, Eomer?

galadriel'smaiden

03-27-2004, 04:28 PM

I, galadriel'smaiden, have a warg. A rabid, evil, ferocious, bloodthirsty one and a half foot high warg. It prowls my home, searching for cats and mice to terrorize. It has turned the backyard into a crater filled wasteland to be likened to Mordor itself. It leaves *gifts* for me, only to discover the *gifts* are highly toxic; I suffer greatly. But when the warg is asleep, I remember why the heck I bought it in the first place.... ;)

SamwiseGamgee

03-28-2004, 11:00 AM

Wargs have indeed been known to dabble in the black arts, and it is quite possible that this warg you have is doing such a thing and leaving these 'presents'- possibly eye of toad and foot of newt- for you in some kind of Morgul taunt.
It sounds to me as though your warg is a dwarf dutch warg. They're famous for turning to other methods for proving themselves rather than the supreme power and physical prowess of larger breeds of warg.
However, there is one thing you must remember: you are not trully the master of this warg. the warg obeys no mere mortal, it merely submits itself as it chooses. 'Be wise in your treatment of the warg, for he forgets not lightly,' as Elrond once said.
Eomer, where are you, man? We need the original godfather of warg back for some great warg related stories!

Eomer of the Rohirrim

03-28-2004, 01:21 PM

Fear not Samwise and other Children of the Downs, I cannot forget this thread. It has become a demanding child to me, always begging for attention, interrupting my sleep, et cetera.

Your tale, Samwise, of the Wargs of the Brown Lands was gripping. For now, I am compiling another tale. Until then, I only insist that you take care if you are in contact with a Warg. I have few personal experiences with Wargs but one of them in particular is terrifying. I saw a Warg snatch a screaming child from a bus queue, snap it in half, and greedily suck down its fluids. It looked up at the onlookers, including myself, child-juices dribbling from its mandibles, and let loose a blood-curdling scream which rose into a piercing crescendo, as if daring us to protest. No-one did.

Beware Wargs. You cannot fully understand them.

Kransha

03-28-2004, 05:26 PM

Ah, the noble warg and his master, the unsung heroes of unsungedness. What a marvellous concept has taken shape. I shall add my humble contribution, the lovingly paraphrased ballad. It is the sad story of the death of the regal Rawrrar, known to most as the Warg of Wantley, a vicious, gargantuan creature who wrough beautiful havoc on the small towns of the Westfold, and how he was smitten by the cunning Folc of Meduseld. So, without further ado.

The Warg of Wantley

Old stories tell how Gamgee, Sam
A spider slew at Ungol,
With six great legs and fourteen eyes,
To see and never bungle:
But he had Sting, this spider nothing,
Or he ne'er had done it, I warrant ye:
But Folc of Med-hall, with nothing at all,
He slew the Warg of Wantley.

This warg, he had two furious arms,
Each mounted 'neath each shoulder;
With a whip on his tail as long as a flail
Which made him bolder and bolder.
He had long claw's, and in his jaws
Four and forty teeth of iron;
With fur as tough as any buff,
Which did him round environ.

Have you not heard how the Trojan horse
Held seventy men in his belly?
This warg was just not quite so big,
But very near, I'll tell ye;
Devoured he poor children three,
That could not with him grapple;
And at one sup he ate them up,
As one would eat an apple.

All sorts of cattle this warg would eat,
Some say he ate up trees,
And that the forests sure he would
Devour up by degrees:
For houses and churches were to him geese and turkeys;
He ate all and left none behind,
But some stones, dear Jack, that he could not crack,
Which on the hills you will find.

Hard by a furious knight there dwelt;
Men, women, girls, and boys,
Sighing and sobbing, came to his lodging,
And made a hideous noise.
"Oh, save us all, Folc of Med-hall,
Thou peerless knight of these woods;
Do but slay this wolf, who our homes will engulf,
We'll give thee all our goods."

This being done, he did engage
To hew the warg beast down;
But first he went new armor to
Bespeak at Upbourn town;
With spikes all about, not within but without,
Of steel so sharp and strong,
Both behind and before, arms, legs, and all o'er,
Some five or six inches long.

Had you but seen him in this dress,
How fierce he looked, and how big,
You would have thought him for to be
Some Egyptian porcupig:
He frighted all, cats, dogs, and all,
Each cow, each horse, and each hog:
For fear they did flee, for they took him to be
Some strange, outlandish hedge-hog.

To see this fight all people then
Got up on trees and houses,
On churches some, and chimneys too;
But these put on their trousers,
Not to spoil their hose. As soon as he rose,
To make him strong and mighty,
He drank, by the tale, six pots of ale
And a quart of aqua-vitae.

It is not strength that always wins,
For wit doth strength excel;
Which made our cunning champion
Creep down into a well,
Where he did think this wolfhound would drink,
And so he did in truth;
And as he stooped low, he rose up and cried, "Oh!"
And kicked him in the mouth.

"Oh," quoth the warg with a deep sigh,
And turned six times together.
Sobbing and tearing, cursing and swearing
Out of his throat of leather:
"Folc of Med-hall, O thou rascal,
Would I had seen thee never;
With the thing at thy foot thou hast pricked my throat,
And I'm quite undone forever. "

"Murder, murder," the warg did cry,
"Alack, alack, for grief;
Had you but missed that place, you could
Have done me no mischief."
Then his head he shaked, trembled and quaked,
And down he laid and cried;
First on one knee, then on back tumbled he;
So groaned, and kicked, and died.

SamwiseGamgee

03-29-2004, 02:17 AM

Bravo, Kransha!
This tale of brutal warg murder, whilst thoroughly dispicable for its subject matter, is trully a delight to read. Your prose has raised the bar here at the Warg Appreciation Society's thread. I shall have to make sure that my next tale of warg mystery and intrigue is particularly superb. (Of course it shall be, due solely to the fact that it is about wargs!)
Today I depart for a two night trip to Dublin, Eire, with one of the fairest maiden's that ere man hath seen. I must beseech the gods that they shall send a warg to guide our path and make our footsteps swift. I look forward to coming back and readind hundreds, perhaps thousands, of new warg-related posts!

Eomer of the Rohirrim

03-29-2004, 05:51 AM

Kransha, that poem was truly magnificent! You have surely embiggened this thread with your wonderful tale and I applaud and salute you for it. :)

In my next post I will tell a tale which shows the flip-side of Wargs. These treacherous rogues are not exactly a good advert for the sublime majesty of Wargdom. Nay, these Wargs typify why most of Middle-earth was so distrustful of Wargs. As Tolkien would surely agree, one of the greatest crimes is the misuse of power. When the power in question is that of the Wargs, devastation shall occur.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

03-30-2004, 06:36 AM

The tale of the forgotten Men of the Grey Mountains.

The Withered Heath is a wretched, horrific, ghastly place on Middle-earth, yet it was once green and fresh, and merry Men were aplenty in the lush valleys (valleys considered even more lush than those in Chile on our world, which is really saying something. Have you ever visited Chile?). These Men lived in the Grey Mountains for parts of the year, and in the valleys in other times, especially summertime.

These people were protected by Wargs who lived nearby, though no-one ever found out where. The people had a huge respect for the Wargs, though there was never much contact between the two groups.

On the day of the terror, all the Men were in the valleys. It was summer, and a particularly fine summer too. They must have seen a great host of Wargs approaching them.

Here is where the story becomes difficult, as there were absolutely no survivors of the people. It was a massacre. Thousands upon thousands of corpses were discovered by other Men a couple of days later. There were also a few Warg bodies laying on the ground, shot with arrows. Only five; the Men were hopeless at defending themselves because they had relied on the Wargs for so long. The Wargs then torched the valleys, completely ruining the area, and so it became known as the Withered Heath.

The Wargs were identified as being alien to the Men, by travellers who had not been present for the massacre. They returned to their homes, and through their grief were able to pinpoint the differences between the Wargs. The dead Wargs were slightly smaller and had thoroughly different eyes to the Wargs who were recognised as protectors.

The Good Wargs were never seen again by Men. The Evil Wargs certainly did not remain in the same area. A couple more Warg corpses were discovered in open ground, probably around 50 leagues from the formerly lush valleys. These were identified as being protector Wargs. They had been murdered clinically.

No-one really knows what happened in those days. Most suppose that the Evil Wargs destroyed the Good Wargs before destroying the Men of the Grey Mountains. There are more outlandish stories as well. The problem stems from the fact that there were no human survivors.

Maeggaladiel

03-30-2004, 02:12 PM

Hello, fellow Wargians!

Hast thou heard of the new Guide Wargs for the Blind program? Yes, warg breeders are sending warg puppies to Guide Warg school to help aid those with visual impairments.

Unlike Guide Dogs for the Blind, which use useless cuddly dogs like labradors, Guide Wargs not only guide but protect the visually impaired person from attackers!

Hope the program works!

***Guide Wargs for the Blind does not accept responsibility for death or dismemberment brought about by Guide Wargs.***

Wargies!
MAEG~

Eomer of the Rohirrim

03-31-2004, 06:10 AM

I can only imagine Great Wargs strolling down a busy street! Some Wargs have extremely short tempers, so I suppose that some people may die as a result of that scheme. But if I ever need looking after then a Warg would come top of my list.

So far the thread has been solely about Wargs but I'd like to talk about the Warg Rider. Rest assured, the Warg Rider is not a normal Orc as depicted in the movies. Oh no. The Warg Rider is a different being altogether. He is no mere Goblin. He is an intrinsically evil tamer of Wargs. He corrupts them to his will. He is very powerful indeed.

Just consider the list of foes who have tried AND FAILED to defeat him. Elrond, Theoden, Eomer, Faramir, Saruman, Galadriel, a host of Dunlending Wildmen and the ENTIRE RACE OF DWARVES! The only two foes he has ran from are Aragorn and Gandalf the White, for he knows that their ferocity is too much for him to handle.

The Warg Rider is cunning and feasts (not literally) on the weakness of some Wargs. He is a deadly enemy. Elrond once prophecised that the Great Wargs would one day seek for the Warg Rider and vanquish him for all that he has done to the good name of the Warg. Galadriel was not too sure whether Elrond was right or not.

SamwiseGamgee

03-31-2004, 08:07 AM

Phew, back!
Well, the Warg Rider. I had been wondering how long it would be before we succumbed to the temptation of mentioning that creature. What an evil being he is. Few can comprehend just what he embodies in that evil green body of his. He is a walking (riding?) embodiement of fear and invokes terror in all who look on his face. Horrid.
I'm compiling at the moment some rustic legends and 'myths' as to the origins and roles of wargs, which I think would be interesting and perhaps even amusing for us to read. What, for example, was the Numenorean stance on wargs? All shall be answered.
PS Eomer, great signature!
This, Mrs Fawlty. This Mr Fawlty. This, slap on the head!

Amariden Ravenhill

03-31-2004, 03:08 PM

Greetings, my friends! We meet again! I have been wandering for some time in the Old Forest and I tell you truly that I may have seen a Warg! I will describe what I saw in breif. The creature was of a lithe stature, and moved in rolling gait. The night was dark and I could only distinguish the crerature's peircing eyes. I stood in awe, transfixed, as it gave a howl that would turn the hearts ofeven the bravest of warriors to ice. Then, with a rustle of the wind; it was gone. Perhaps it was only my mind, or perhaps I truly did see a Warg.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

04-01-2004, 09:35 AM

I believe that, once you see a Warg, you fully realise what you are seeing. I don't think people can be tricked into thinking they have seen a Warg. Much like anyone who saw Gandalf could tell that he was a being of great power.

I remember when I first saw a Warg. T'was a warm evening and I was strolling through the moors some miles from my home. There was a figure standing atop a hill , probably a half mile from where I was standing, yet I could instantly tell that it was a Warg. It was as if an angel had come to my side and said "Yes, my son. You have indeed set eyes upon the most noble of God's creatures."

To use simile, it is like a veil is lifted from before your eyes, and you see the truth. If you did not feel this way Amariden, then it probably wasn't a Warg. If you did, then congratulations!

SamwiseGamgee

04-01-2004, 11:32 AM

Well all this talk of seeing wargs leads me nicely into the legend surrounding wargs according to the Dunlending Wildmen. Why? Well, the Dunlendings had a great respect and fear for wargs. They had no rightful name for them, they knew them only by the same name as they referred to gifts. This is because the Dunlendings believed that wargs were gifts, sent from their angels to guide and guard the Dunlendings.
One of the most famous Dunlending legends tells of Musht, a Dunlending who once met with a Warg on the highest summit of Middle Earth and was there imbued with super-human strength for having passed all the tests of that particular warg. It was after this that the Dunlendings told of how if any man looked upon a warg without a worthy soul then surely death would become him. I certainly hope your soul is worthy Ravenhill! :)

Eomer of the Rohirrim

04-02-2004, 09:03 AM

Interesting Samwise. I would like to hear the other legends regarding Wargs from the People's of Middle-earth, that is, of course, if you know any others?

SamwiseGamgee

04-03-2004, 08:11 AM

Well, of course, Eomer. I know many more. Perhaps you would like to hear what the people of Rohan thought of the wargs? I shall tell thee, though I am sure you already know, Rider of the Mark.
As you can imagine the Rohirrim were not great fans of wargs. When they clashed with enemy cavalry it was usually warg mounted orcs, and hence the bitter rivalry.
The legend of the Mark goes that wargs were once normal wolves who roamed the plains, quite happy and contented in their packs to live a life of peace. However, Morgoth in his evil plan took many of these wolves captive and much like the elves who would become orcs by his Morgul ways so would the wolves warp and transform into wargs, sent to forever blight humanity.
Of one warg in particular many stories are told in the eoreds, he who was named Ghrag the Awful. For many long years he reigned in terror on the eastern borders of Rohan, causing great fear and terror wherever he roamed. It was on hearing of this great plight that Eorl rode forth from Edoras on Felarof, his great steed, to meet this sore on his fair kingdom. When the two met the locals said that the sky darkened and a great chill covered all the land. For hours the two great foes battled, locked in a duel of fates. In the end it was Eorl who drove his sword through the throat of Ghrag and did spill his blood. It is said that upon the ground where the blood of Ghrag was spilled no thing has ever lived, and that any who step there will be taken by a deadly fever.
PS- Eomer, how do you spell eloqution?

Kransha

04-03-2004, 09:28 AM

As a follow up to "The Warg of Wantley," I dug up this old work or rustic Germanic folklore. Its a primitive, one-rhyme-scheme verse about the daughter of the last warg king and how a band of motley elk hunters from Hamburg slew her most ignobly (told from the point of view of one Eglebert Saxonhead, one of the hunters). If only I could locate something good about wargs, rather than all this morbid stuff about killing the noble beasts. What a pity...

Das Letzte Warg - Daughter Der Warg König
(The Last Warg - The Warg King's Daughter)

The last great warg king left a daughter
Who bounded her way here over water.
For sport, so we thought, we bought guns and we sought her.
We hunted and hounded and cornered and caught her.

A lumbering, cumbersome, grumpy old snorter,
She turned out far tougher than we had first thought her.

We gave her no quarter, but faced her and fought her,
Lost count of the means we were forced to resort ta
Yet, to cut a quite cruel account shorter,
We blew her to bits with a shell from a mortar.

Of course, they brought in a sort of reporter,
A devious, merciless story distorter,
Who wrote of a glorious slaughter.

Brings a dreadful tear to your eye, don't it? What a waste, what a waste. This just shows the lower class under-appreciation of the flawless wargs and their kin.

SamwiseGamgee

04-03-2004, 04:17 PM

Kransha, once again your research to bring us new tales of warg butchery are, whilst enjoyable, grave and harrowing! How can one be expected to take this kind of abuse of wargdom in all its fair forms lying down! It's horrible!
Perhaps an account of the Numenorean legend of Tar-Aldarion and his famous encounter with a warg will lighten the heart. Tar-Aldarion, or Anardil, was of course a King of Numenor who sailed oft abroad to Middle Earth. There he would seek counsel with Gil-Galad and wander amongst the glades and forests, seeking new life and to learn of the quaint ways of the people there.
It was on one of these days that Tar-Aldarion met his first warg, though he named it Ancalime, after his daughter, for it was the fairest thing ere his eye had seen save his eldest daughter, to whom he would later surrender the sceptre.
It was on a fair summer morn, early so that the haze of dawn was still heavy, when Tar-Aldarion happened upon a clearing in a small forest, occupied by a great warg. Its fur was golden, and the light danced upon its tips in the morning sun. His face was noble, a chisseled visage with two great eyes of deep brown. In those eyes, Tar-Aldarion later swore, a man could have become lost and never again appear. The great creature was the first to speak, and indeed Tar-Aldarion was glad, for he had become speechless and would not have known how to address such an ancient creature of obvious nobility. It spake of how Tar-Aldarion must be careful of his kingdom. It told how while he sailed abroad his wife grew restless and longed for her husband's love. Tar-Aldarion vowed that in those deep, dark eyes he saw his wife, Erendis, on the coast of Numenor, longing for him. The creature urged him not to tarry too long in Middle Earth, ere he lose his grip with his left hand by stretching too far with his right.
Tar-Aldarion asked for the name of the creature, but it would not share. Long the pair tarried and spake of this thing and the next, and Tar-Aldarion did find the counsel as meaningful if not, indeed, more so than that of Gil-Galad.
When the sun was high and the warg's fur did glow golden so that Tar-Aldarion could not bring his eyes to look directly upon it the creature took his leave. For a long time after did Tar-Aldarion tarry at that spot, and to this day it remains a holy place, where few would dare to tred. The elven folk told Tar-Aldarion they had often seen the creature roaming through the woods near their homes, though they thought it a foe. Tar-Aldarion was outraged and beseeched Gil-Galad that he would ensure no harm would befall this Ancalime in his absence. Gil-Galad did not understand, but realised the importance of this and obeyed Tar-Aldarion, so that the penalty of death would hang over any man or elf who harmed this fair beast.
It was after this meeting that the warg became a creature of mythical power and greatness in Numenor, and folly would it be for a sailor to disembark from his ship without a prayer of thanks to Ancalime the Protector. Many songs were written in this golden period of Numenorean history regarding wargs, though they were never referred to as such, and it was not for many generations the warg became anything but a creature to respect and love.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

04-04-2004, 12:01 PM

elocution - art of speaking clearly in public

Another great poem Kransha, and more wonderful legends Samwise. I salute both of you. :)

I have a story regarding one Vadim, who was a leader of a small group of Wargs who wandered in the Brown Lands some years ago. Now, these Wargs were not Great Wargs. In fact, they were rather small compared to other Wargs, and were not too renowned. These Wargs had wandered for years never roaming into legend or story. They had become quite shy to tell the truth.

Anyway, they were pressurized into cooperating with a very large group of Orcs who had a stronghold in Mirkwood. The Orc leader Gangamel was preparing a War with the Elves of Eregion, and needed all the force he could muster. The Wargs showed weakness (alas! tis true) and were forced into joining Gangamel's army. Gangamel was a particularly maniacal and evil Orc.

And so it came to what would have been Gangamel's first great stroke against Eregion. But oh joy! things did not turn out as Gangamel had planned. The Elves were strong, but the Orcs were vast in number and would probably have gained the upper-hand before long. It was not to be.

Vadim was very uneasy. He did not want to be in this battle. He felt terrible for the Elves who would probably be slaughtered. It was then, just as Gangamel had let loose his cry of War, that Vadim heard a great voice out of the sky, and all the other Wargs heard it too.

"Warg! You have no faith in Gangamel!"

No-one knew who's voice it was (though the Wargs themselves supposed it was the voice of the Creator himself) but at the hearing of it the Wargs leapt into a frenzy and started to unleash all Hell on Gangamel's Orcs! The Elves were delighted and joined in the slaughter. This was the vengeance of the Wargs on the Orcs for all the terrible things which Gangamel had coerced them into doing. Never again would an Orc fully trust a Warg.

Gangamel escaped to cause mischief in the future, but Vadim and his Wargs lived long and happy lives.

SamwiseGamgee

04-04-2004, 01:07 PM

What a delightful little tale! It is true that a warg is rarely trusted by an orc, I had never realised that the story of Gangamel and Vadim was the reason for that. It's perhaps like that famous line of a song which goes:

This warg is outta control! Gonna burn this warg! Burn this warg!

Maybe you've heard it. It was a marching song of the Easterlings, part of a larger song about Lisiloth (pr. Li-sci-lo-gh) who was a warg running rampant throughout the lands of the East. He would often ravish sheep and feast upon young goats, that sort of devilry, you know. The Easterlings decided enough was enough and in an act of brutal vengeance they did ignite the pelt of Lisiloth and watch with massachistic delight as the warg burned and howled in pain. Lisiloth dived into a nearby lake, but by then it was too late, and his body was burned beyond saving. Perhaps I shall later include the full song.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

04-05-2004, 10:26 AM

That sounds like a nasty little tale Samwise, though compelling certainly.

It is interesting that we touch on the subject of songs, for songs about Wargs were the norm in Middle-earth (or so I am led to believe). Easterling marching songs would probably have sounded terrifying to a lone Warg, especially if the content concerned Warg murder.

There was once a time when Elrond and his Elves were hunting troublesome Wargs near Imladris. They had surrounded the last remnant of Wargs and before long, the fight was under way. Most Wargs were slaughtered, but around 40 of them managed to escape. For the next few days Elrond and his following hunted the last remaining Wargs and would sing

"Oh! Forty Wargs remain!"

over and over, until they found and destroyed them. A sad story I think, but the origins of a famous chant.

Maeggaladiel

04-06-2004, 01:45 PM

Dear Esteemed Eomer of the Rohirrim and Company:

It has come to the attention of the Society of Nearsighted Elves (otherwise referred to in this letter as "Society", and "We"), for which I am founding member and spokesperson, that a number of wild wargs roaming the plains of Rohan are in danger of extinction due to ignorant civilians who believe them to be evil. The Society believes this to be a problem worth consideration. Although normally the Society champions efforts to aid visually impaired fey folk with our Foundation for Nearsighted Elves, we have agreed to start a campaign to raise citizen awareness to protect the elusive and often misunderstood Wild Warg. We intend to collect enough signatures and donations to write a formal letter to King Aragorn of Gondor and the current rulers of your kingdom, Rohan, to create an international Warg Protection Law.

Under this new law, the following proposals would be addressed:
*An area of land to be set aside as a wildlife reserve to allow the wargs to run freely.
*A national quota for the amount of wargs hunted each year.
*Scientific investigation into the natural habits of the warg.
*Warg breeding programs to help raise the failing warg population.

We of the Society would like to ask your esteemed group if you would support us in this crusade to save the wild warg. Have you any concerns that you wish to be adressed?

Save the Wargs
Maeggaladiel,
Public Relations/ President/ Founding Member/ Poster Child,
The Society for Nearsighted Elves

Eomer of the Rohirrim

04-06-2004, 03:15 PM

I am sure you all mean well at the society, but I'm not sure you really understand the Warg, wild though these Wargs may be. Wargs are many times more powerful than Men and Elves and I am not sure that we could wipe out Wargs, whether by accident or even if we really put our minds to it.

However, it is nice to meet another Downer who is concerned about Wargs as we at the Appreciation Thread are. :)

I'm going to Madrid. There are several legends and myths concerning Wargs in the Spanish capital. I'll share some of them when I come back. :cool:

Maeggaladiel

04-07-2004, 01:47 PM

The Society for Nearsighted Elves would like to offer Eomer and Company our humblest apology for the misunderstanding.

It would appear that SOMEONE at headquarters was not wearing their prescriptive lenses while reading about the so-called "Warg Issue" before proposing an action to the rest of the sociey. This elf will remain annonymous, but offers his most humble apology. It just goes to show how important funding nearsighted elves really is. Because without our glasses, we're just a bunch of near-blind idiots with pointed ears. :cool:

Sorry again for the misunderstanding,

Maeggaladiel of the Four Eyes
The Society for Nearsighted Elves

PS-- Have fun in Madrid!

SamwiseGamgee

04-09-2004, 09:26 AM

With Eomer gone it appears I must take the warg and run with it, so to speak, as regards this thread. And so he goes to Madrid. Perhaps he will from afar sight the Great White Warg of Portugal. I can only hope.
I myself travelled over 350 miles yesterday in an attempt to sight that most infamous of wargs- the Greater Govan Warg. I was unfortunately denied this opportunity, but thankfully I was able to visit a Lesser Spotted Tree Warg in its natural habitat. a beautiful sight. with the Easter holidays on I'd be interested to hear of any warg sightings on the holiday travels.

SamwiseGamgee

04-10-2004, 02:38 PM

Where have all the wargs gone? Who knows?
Anyway, I shall answer the question earlier posed regarding sightings of holiday wargs. It was on my recent trip to Dublin that I saw the Green Warg. Many have thought it a legend, but the green fur of this creature is indeed fact, though a misleading one. The green is, as you may have suspected, moss and fungus which thrives in the unusually long hair of what is in fact the long haired genus of the Celtic Warg, common in the highlands of Scotland and Eire.
The warg in question is known by the locals as 'Ivan' and his escapades are fondly recounted in folklore, often accompanied by the beat of the bodhram and the blow of the whistle. There is little which compares to an Irish folk song regarding wargs!

Eomer of the Rohirrim

04-13-2004, 09:26 AM

Thank you Maeggaladiel! I did indeed have fun in Madrid and I recommend that you and the others check it out at some point in your lives.

Hail Samwise! I am glad of the effort you have put into the thread during my absence. I have heard of the Celtic Warg but have not yet seen it, Scottish though I am. One of these days I shall indeed go on a trek through the Highlands in order to discover this grand creature.

Little did I know that the Spanish hold Wargs in such high regard. I visited a quiet part of Madrid, where the tourists go not and the locals are generally left to go about their humble ways. In a small square call Herrera Marchena, there is a fabulous statue of a Warg, nigh on 30 feet high. Wonderful so it is. It dates back to the 17th century, and the inscription roughly translates as; "Oh Warg! Recieve our love and protect us throughout. We are your people." Its not exact but that's pretty much the gist of it.

Truly a sign that the Madrilenos love Wargs in much the same way as we love our Gods.

SamwiseGamgee

04-13-2004, 11:10 AM

A very short break there, Eomer. I did not expect to see you so soon, but I am glad you have returned, the weight and expectation of carrying the warg appreciation thread has been running me into the ground!
It sounds as though those crazy Spaniards sure know how to appreciate their wargs, if only in my home country the warg were so sweetly savoured. Indeed there is nought but statues of national 'heroes' and local mayors of 'repute', not even the slightest hint of a majestic warg, cast in bronze and towering over all other buildings as it surveys its kingdom.
I can but dream.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

04-14-2004, 06:59 AM

The biggest statue of a Warg is on a hill-top in Peru and it is over 850 feet tall.

SamwiseGamgee

04-14-2004, 11:25 AM

I must say I'm not surprised, those crazy Peruvians sure love their wargs. The question I have often pondered on, though, is why they love wargs so much. I mean, sure, what's not to love, but the Peruvian people have a devotion unrivalled the world over. Where does that come from? Can anyone tell me?

Eomer of the Rohirrim

04-15-2004, 06:43 AM

I can answer your question Samwise. Once upon a time there was an island in the middle of what we call the Pacific ocean. There were people on it. The population only went back a couple of generations because the original inhabitants were survivors of a ship wreckage. It was a very harsh place to live and many people drowned in fierce floods. They prayed for salvation, because they knew that, in a few years, everyone would be wiped out.

Then the Wargs came to them. They raised the island and brought it over to the place we call South America, where they fit it onto the edge of the continent. Now the people were in a safe environment. They were in contact with other people and their population grew and flourished.

To this day the people of Peru have love for Wargs that suffers no rival.

SamwiseGamgee

04-15-2004, 09:36 AM

Shall there ever be a day of my life when I do not learn of yet another heroic warg act and have my love and admiration of the noble beasts swell beyond even my wildest imaginings? I doubt it!
Just the other day I learned of the greatest warg designer and architect ever, his name was Archibald Simpson. He designed and built with his own mighty paws the great bank of my home town. It is a magnificent building, standing 50ft tall with a magnificent statue of Britannia, a warg on either side of her. This bank was, on its opening day, held in awe by onlookers and peers of Archibald. One spectator said:

"I wouldn't have believed all they've said about wargs before today. But now, having seen what the paws and mind of one warg have produced, I can do nothing but to say 'I was wrong'. Wargs are obviously just as great as everyone says."

The local newspaper reported that

The crowd stood, dumbfounded, and hung on the every word of Mr Simpson, the warg who had created this wonder.

This unique event shows us just how great wargs can be, yet how unrecognised they shall forever go. The wonderous bank is now a public house, and few know the true story of Archibald Simpson. Those of us who do, though, wet our tongues there with nigh on religious fervour and often enjoy the famous 'warg burger'.
All is done, though, with bittersweet irony, the truth about Archibald almost forgotten.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

04-15-2004, 02:30 PM

The Warg burger being an affectionate name for the dish I presume, rather than an actual plate of Warg meat? ;)

This Archibald Simpson sounds like a truly wonderful being. I have frequented the Archibald Simpson public house in the past and I have yet to find a better place to spend some time and money on simple pleasures such as a pint of Guinness and a good discussion of Wargs.

I paraphrase a man called David, who once said of the Archibald Simpson; "It was designed perfectly. If it had been a millimetre higher it would have been too high, and if it had been a millimetre lower it would have been too low."

Until now I was unaware of the origins of the building. Now I am truly happy at knowing of this tremendous feat.

Samwise, do you have any ideas as to what Wargs did for simple pleasures?

SamwiseGamgee

04-18-2004, 06:03 AM

There are many reports as to what a warg would do to enjoy the simpler aspects of life. Some of them are far too foul to show on the downs, suffice to say that huge groups of wargs would gather in South America and 'enjoy one another.' (Carnally) Unbelievable, when you think on it.
However, other wargs have far more placid past times, for example dancing and singing. Few people, for example, know that Beethoven was a warg. Not the composer, of course, but Beethoven Drachmar, third Earl of Montenegro. It was due to a rather embarrassing and shambolic will in which Winston Beagle, second Earl of Montenegro, left his entire estate to a warg. I would be proud to live in the Earldom of a warg! I'm sure they were times of plenty!
It is also reported that some wargs enjoy a cloudy, white brew which is known as Leffe. It is said to be brewed by a seccluded clan of Belgian monks, and wargs repotedly can't get enough of it.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

04-18-2004, 12:53 PM

Have you tasted Leffe Samwise? A wonderful drink I consider it to be. I am unsurprised that the Wargs love it so.

A funny thing happened to me the other day. I came across a man in the street who, completely out of nowhere, turned to me and exclaimed "Wargs aren't so great." It seems that the popularity of this thread is growing if I am getting recognised in the street!

Of course, the man started to walk away from me, but in the time it took to get out of the range of my voice, he had already heard me shout at least 27 ways in which Wargs are indeed that great. Its just lucky for him that there was no Warg lurking nearby. :D

SamwiseGamgee

04-20-2004, 05:25 AM

I have, of recent times, noticed a filthy and disgusting apathy in the world at large toward wargs, and if it's not apathy it's downright disdain! What has the fair warg, that most glorious of creatures, done to deserve this unfair and unreasonable place in society?
It is a question I have wrestled with on many a long, sleepless night. I can no longer count the times I have lain there, a cold sweat upon my body, trying to breathe yet having difficulty in doing so over man's inhumanity to wargs! The outrage!
As I write this I look out across the quad at my university. The sun is shining and the temperature is lovely. Many people are sitting out on this fair vista, sunning themselves and enjoying the wonders of creation. Little do they realise that nearby there are wargs, noble and good wargs, who are afraid to even leave their dens and hides for such is the wrath and persecution of these people. One must, I feel, ask serious questions regarding today's society when man and warg cannot live in harmony.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

04-20-2004, 07:41 AM

A foul example of hatred. It is a truly disgusting trait - which most Men possess - that has people fearing and hating Wargs. They cannot even begin to comprehend where Mankind would be without the Warg. We here at the Appreciation Thread do have a reasonable idea where we would be without the Warg; somewhere akin to Hell!

On a lighter note, I discovered another fascinating thing about Wargs yesterday. Wargs actually introduced the vine to France. Remember that the next time you're sipping a glass of a fine Bordeaux red. :)

SamwiseGamgee

04-20-2004, 08:34 AM

That doesn't surprise me. It's not like we didn't know that wargs are conniseurs of style and chic. They probably introduced to cocoa bean to Brasil also. Perhaps I'll go off and do some research on that one. What a great way to spend an evening!

Eomer of the Rohirrim

04-21-2004, 08:09 AM

There is a most delightful library in Guadeloupe which has a large section on Wargs. I once spent 5 consecutive days there learning about Wargs. Alas, I had to leave because I had a plane to catch to get back home. Nevertheless, I intend to go back there one day in the near future; so much remains to be discovered from the ancient scrolls in that building.

My faith in mankind took yet another knock earlier today when some mindless individuals shouted across the street at me, in order to say "Cull the Wargs!" I'll admit that I would take pleasure in seeing those imbeciles being ripped apart by a pack of ferocious Wargs. Is that wrong or harsh? I don't think so. :p

I was made slightly happier, however, when just seconds after this event, a young boy, probably about 6 years old, confronted the mob and yelled at them "No! Wargs are great!"

Always remember that there ARE good people out there. ;)

And another thing, I saw a Warg footprint only 100 metres from my house! :eek: More on that next time.

SamwiseGamgee

04-21-2004, 12:33 PM

Well, after a day searching the libraries and annuls of this country I have discovered that my earlier claim was wrong, wargs did not introduce the cocoa bean to Brasil. What a mistake for me to make. No, dear friend, the wargs did far more: they introduced the tree to Brasil!
'So what?' I hear you cry, 'Shetland has no trees, and they manage fine!'
Perhaps, but let me remind you of a little geography:

THE AMAZON RAINFOREST!

Yes, that's right, it was wargs who, just after saving Peru, I imagine, travelled to Brasil and planted the first tree in what would be the greatest forest known to man. What greatness!
Oh, and also, I just discovered an album, available on a certain online shop with a name which has just been mentioned (no corporate sponsorship on this thread, oh no! Mmmm, that's some good Irn-Bru I'm just drinking now, as I always do when I go online. Ahem!) by Jimi Hendrix. It was an experimental album and it features the original version of several of his most famous songs, though with notable title differences. Highlights of the album include 'Little Warg' and 'The Wind Cries Warg.' What an awesome album!

Eomer of the Rohirrim

04-22-2004, 06:25 AM

That is fascinating Samwise. Right now I am compiling a tale about The Warg Rider. It is a tale filled with malice and evil, and yet only leaves the reader with a slight understanding of the extraordinary powers of The Warg Rider.

Oh, it makes me shiver with terror just thinking about that sick beast. :eek:

SamwiseGamgee

04-25-2004, 02:26 AM

Such terror it would surely induce in even the stoutest of spirits. That is the terrifying power of the warg rider. I look forward to hearing this legacy at a later date. Though, hopefully, not too late.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

04-25-2004, 02:04 PM

The Warg Rider was not just a manipulator of Wargs. He had armies of his own, containing mostly Orcs and some evil Men as well (and of course, several Wargs). He had sick purposes. Sauron, for example, at least had an understandable goal. He wanted to dominate Middle-earth. Not so the Warg Rider.

The Warg Rider (who was surely the most powerful Orc in the history of ME) delighted in distress and revelled in the suffering of others. His only goal was to inflict pain and misery on the world he lived in. The Warg Rider (whose true name is long forgotten) has been living this way for thousands of years.

On a time, The Warg Rider led an army in battle against the Men of Rohan. The Orcs were slaughtered, but The Warg Rider was able to escape the battle-scene with one possessed Warg, a mighty beast. They slinked through Rohan for days, but the Warg Rider had bad injuries, he was near death. The Warg carried him into a forest clearing and hid him, and went to seek help. It so happened that there was a small village about a mile from the forest, and the Warg was greeted by the people of Rohan. The people took him into their homes and healed him and fed him, but every night the Warg would sneak out into the forest and brought with him some food and drink for his master, the Warg Rider, and in this way he was healed back to his foul power.

When he was better, he summoned several Wargs to the forest. At night, in an act of supreme despicability, the Warg Rider ordered his Wargs to commit massacre in the village. He left only one person alive, a feeble old woman whose husband he had decapitated right in front of her. He left her alive because he wanted someone to tell the tale of the Warg Rider's exploits. He then stole much of the village's supplies of food and left the ravaged land, laughing sadistically as he walked away.

SamwiseGamgee

04-26-2004, 04:42 AM

My goodness, my blood runs chilled at this story of treachery and deceit. The Warg Rider is trully the coldest, most saddistical and manipulative creature ever to have lived. His dark gaze and foul smirk turn the hearts of men to poison and their spirits doth ruin.
For years he has scourged all that is good and just in the lands he chooses to victimise, just as he did in your story, Eomer. It is even told in Buckland of how he came and conversed with the hobbits who dwelt there on the edge of the Old Forest, though only the eldest of hobbits remembers it, and, after all, they're queer folks on the other side of the Brandywine.
Who knows if these stories are true? Who knows if the tale Fatty Bolger once told of a great battle between this Warg Rider and Old Man Willow are true? It is unlikely that there are any. Apart, perhaps, from Tom Bombadil. That, however, shall have to wait.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

04-26-2004, 08:46 AM

Bombadil's thoughts are hard to decipher in the best of times, but I often lie awake at night wondering what Tom thinks of the Warg Rider, and indeed of Wargs.

And vice versa. It is my opinion that Wargs were often guests in the House of Tom Bombadil. Ah! to be in the company of such fine beings. It is a wish I have. :D

SamwiseGamgee

04-27-2004, 08:48 AM

A song of Tom Bombadil

One day old Tom Bombadil-o
He went a walking-o
And what did he see before his eyes but that Old Man Willow
It was that fiend Old Man Willow!

But he was not on his own- nay
He was wrestling with a foe-ay
And who was that foe but old Tom's friend that he knew from elder day
Yes he'd saved in elder day!

Old Tom he ran to save him
Twas close and not much in
But Tom he spoke and the boughs they broke and so was Tom's friend freed
Oh, the Old Man spat him out!

Twas the great Warg Rider-ee
His face was warm and cheery
And he smirked and smiled and thanked dear Tom for saving he and wargy
Old Tom had saved his skin!

Now some they say he's evil
And others remark he's cold
But old Tom knows and old Tom sees and he knows he's really harmless
Oh, he's really just a lamb!

Eomer of the Rohirrim

04-29-2004, 07:27 AM

Nice rhymes Samwise! I note that you mention one 'Wargy'. Pray tell, is this the same Wargy that I am thinking of, namely the comedy Warg? What an oddball this fellow is, let me tell you!

More news on the growing reputation of the thread. I was watching WWE Raw last week, and couldn't help but notice a sign in the crowd that read "I love Wargs" and just underneath it said "barrowdowns.com"

Unfortunately, before too long security had removed the sign, probably because you're not allowed to advertise websites. For the rest of the show, if you ever looked for the Warg sign, all you could see was the infinitely irritating sign which was being held up a couple of rows behind the Warg lover, which read "Christian sucks!"

As we all know, the claim portrayed within this sign is completely innacurate. Christian is in fact a very talented wrestler and a hero to millions of aspiring youths throughout the world.

SamwiseGamgee

04-29-2004, 08:14 AM

Ah, I thought that may cause confusion. But in answer to your question, no. In Tom's song the mention is 'wargy'- no capital letter and merely for the purposes of rhyming.
'Wargy', however, is an entirely different story which i feel I must be illucinated with regard to. Please, Eomer, do so!

Eomer of the Rohirrim

04-30-2004, 02:01 PM

Gladly Samwise! Well, what can I say about Wargy eh? If ever there was a perfect example of a warg with a split personality then its Wargy.

In public he is a loveable rogue, a fun-loving scamp who entertains children and delights parents with his vast array of comedic talents. He is a magician, a teller of jokes and a zany best friend to anyone who needs him all at once.

But there is a much darker, twisted side of Wargy that few people know about. The beast within Wargy lusts for horrific pleasures, including rape and murder. He is so skillful that he never gets caught, but he has left a trail of innocent victims in his wake. In short, he is one sick wretch.

A truly bizarre character.

SamwiseGamgee

05-03-2004, 04:48 PM

Oh my goodness! It's wargs like this sick son of a monster that give the whole noble race of wargs a bad name! This kind of brutal two-faced nature leads to the tar-brushing of wargs as a race. If I ever get to meet this 'Wargy' I'll give him a piece of my mind...before being brutally ravished and left for dead, I imagine.
For long years have wargs struggled with the quick judgement of men and the devilry of one or two individuals in their race. Take, for example, Boris. Boris was a Transylvanian warg of the short haired variety who lived for years in an old castle overlooking the village of Schmertkin. He held that little village his own, and the villagers loved him. He was kind, loving, and cared for the children. Little did the inhabitants on Schmertkin realise that by night Boris would sneak into the village and steal a baby, to use for his own filthy purposes. The child would then mysteriously reappear at a later date in its own bed, apparently none the worse.
Boris worked his foul web of deceit for years, until one day he made a mistake- he chose a victim who was old enough to be aware of what was happening. When that child got home he told his parents of the abhorrent acts of Boris, though they would not suffer their son's tales, and he was exiled to the barren lands surrounding Schmertkin.
It was there that the boy met another warg- Albus. Albus was the older brother of Boris and knew that the child spake the truth. He knew that the villagers must be shown the truth and so he tricked them into following him- disguised as Boris- into the castle. Albus then disappeared, allowing the young lad to lead the villagers to the dungeon where there were no less than three babies, chained and bound to the wall. When Boris burst in the villagers were in a blind rage, realising the story of the boy to be the truth, and they did attack Boris with pitchforks and scythes so that the fell beast was overcome and there, in his own dungeon of disrepute, he drew his last breath. At that Albus entered, coming to congratulate the villagers and thank them for destroying this open sore upon the fair visage of Schmertkin. The villagers, however, had already made their minds up about wargs, and so they did pounce upon Albus with great fury and vengeance, ripping out his eyes and setting his head upon a stick.
The young lad saw this and was filled with sorrow, asking of the villagers: 'Do you not realise this was your saviour, and my friend?' The mob was incited, and as they turned on the lad they did say: 'Don't you hear him? He's in cahoots with these creatures of oblivion. We shall send him to the abyss with his fell companions!' And so the crowd attacked the boy, setting a slipknot around his neck and hanging him from the highest point of the castle.
Shortly after this the black death gripped all of Transylvania in its icy fist. In that fell winter of 1864 every last son and daughter of Schmertkin died, and the village is now nought but a memory, and the castle has gone to ruin. A lesson, surely, to those who would quickly judge an entire race upon the acts of one mad creature.

Amariden Ravenhill

05-04-2004, 01:59 PM

Ai Eru Illuvatar! What a tragety!!!

Eomer of the Rohirrim

05-05-2004, 08:00 AM

That is indeed a most sorry tale of the weakness of Men, and indeed Wargs. I wonder, of all the races in Middle-earth, are Men the closest to Wargs? Of course, they are in general far less powerful than Wargs, but both races have similar tendencies to fall under the darkness.

SamwiseGamgee

05-05-2004, 08:17 AM

That's an intriguing point you make, Eomer. I think what you have hypothesised is quite close to the truth.
Here at the warg appreciation thread we are quite aware of the shortcomings of some wargs in character: their tendency to be drawn to the darkness and their lust for power. However, these wargs are few and far between, and represent a tiny minority of the vast and great race of wargs. We report their cases for we are a subjective organisation. We want people to learn and make up their own minds as we did.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

05-05-2004, 02:56 PM

Good reply Samwise. It is indeed true that, though tendencies of Men and Wargs can be similar, the proportion of Men and Wargs who act upon evil inclinations is hugely different.

Perhaps Wargs are far more fairly compared with the Valar?

Amariden Ravenhill

05-05-2004, 05:06 PM

A truely interesting veiw, Eomer of the Rohirrim. I apologize to you all for seeming to have disappeared, but I was ill with the flu and could not answer to the summons that cry out for retribution on behalf of all Warg-kind. While I was confined to my hobbit-hole as a result of my flu, I was thus inspired to composed a poem in honor of Dirdun.

The Lament of Dirdun

Hail Dirdun,
Mighty among Wargs
Troll-hewer and
Nobelest of Nobles
He with his kin
the West Dirdunings,
Wandered off afar
In lands unknown
Aided by Elves
Fairest of friends
There at Weathertop
Hewed by Easterlings
Thus Dirdun was slain by evil hands
There died many a warg
Innoccent and pure
Broken by the sword
Rangers of the Dunedain
Mourned the loss
of what passed

SamwiseGamgee

05-06-2004, 06:49 AM

Nice prose, Ravenhill. Tell me, which part of the Shire do you hail from? I have a tendency to roam, but maybe I know your hobbit hole. Perhaps I could pop in for a cup of tea or see to your garden?
I think that to draw a link between the Valar and wargs is perhaps tenuous, but not without merit, Eomer. Certainly I think we must realise that wargs are not as powerful as the Valar. If they were would they submit themselves at all? However, as you point out the wargs are mighty as compared to their peers, and a few of them have chosen to tread the path of darkness.
I feel that wargs are probably as powerful or maybe slightly less so than the Maiar. I do not think a single warg could challenge Sauron, but I think an army of wargs marching upon Barad-Dur would surely put the fear into the heart of the Red Eye. A fair fight, if we choose to define it in such terms, would probably be a warg and a balrog.
One interesting question which arises regarding wargs is that Bombadil like enigma of why they did not take a more active role in the War of the Ring?
I'd just like to point out now that all my opinions are rebuttable, and I look forward to hearing counter arguments or comments.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

05-06-2004, 08:41 AM

Before we answer the question "Why did the (good) Wargs not take a more active role in the War of the Ring" we must first ask an estimate of how many Wargs were alive in Middle-earth at the time.

As far as I can tell there were not very many. It is also unclear where they resided. I don't think that Wargs lived in large groups so it is my guess that there were a considerable, if scattered number of Wargs all over Middle-earth.

Perhaps they didn't consider the War to affect them too much?

SamwiseGamgee

05-07-2004, 09:41 AM

I find it unlikely that they didn't live in groups, Eomer. The warg, after all, is a pack animal- highly sociable and intelligent. While the groups may not have been the huge collections that were once known in ME, I feel the groups would have been sizeable, perhaps about 12 adults.
I think it unlikely that wargs felt the War to be unimportant or not affecting them. The warg, after all, has the tremendous gift of foresight, and wargs are counted amongst the wise. However, the same could be said of Tom Bombadil or the eagles, I guess.
Perhaps it is fair to say that wargs were quite simply afraid of the consequences of the War, and thus decided to lie low. It may be slightly ignoble, but it seems reasonable.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

05-07-2004, 01:10 PM

I only said that I thought they wouldn't live in large groups. Rather small well-organised groups.

Perhaps Wargs were involved in furious fighting away from the north-west of Middle-earth, and thus the stories are not told in The Lord Of The Rings. A shame I think. We could probably make some tales of the unsung heroes of the War of the Ring.

Pray tell readers, does anyone know how the Warg Rider met his doom? That is a tale I would love to hear. I wonder if he was present during the War of the Ring.

SamwiseGamgee

05-11-2004, 09:08 AM

That's a question which has puzzled many a greater mind than mine. Few know, and they are reluctant to tell. It is with a great price that the true tale of the Warg Rider is learned, and I for my part have lost much.
The story of the Warg Rider's demise shall be told in this thread soon, but not yet. I shall go back and refresh my mind- though it shan't take much, the imagery is burned into my sub-concious- of the exact facts.
On an aside, Eomer, you may be interested that your foresight is as clear as ever as regards the maiden-folk. You know of what I speak.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

05-12-2004, 07:47 AM

Do I? In that case it must be burrowed deep in the nether regions of my cerebral cortex for I do not know what you speak of Samwise.

This tale of the Doom of the Warg Rider sounds spine-tingling. I can't wait to hear it. Please Samwise, take your time to compile the story and I'm sure it will be phenomenal.

I myself am compiling a happy little tale of Warg 'magic'. Men and Hobbits tend to call the strange arts of the Elves 'magic', and Wargs are quite similar to the Elves in that respect. Warg 'magic' is not really like Elf 'magic' however, and this makes me wonder whether Wargs and Elves have had much contact with each other throughout the ages. If not (as I am suggesting) it appears that Wargs were not around in Valinor when the Elves of Middle-earth were.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

05-17-2004, 09:21 AM

Apologies for the lengthy time I am taking to complete my promised tale. As I was compiling it, I took a sharp, unexpected turn into gloomier waters. So I'll try again, and perhaps I'll end up with two tales: one gloomy and the other happy.

Isn't it funny how those two traits intermingle when talking about Tolkien's works in general and particularly Wargs.

Amariden Ravenhill

05-17-2004, 01:36 PM

Yes....it is indeed a most intriguing trait, Eomer.....I wouldn't have thought such had you never mentioned it.....Oh, and apologies for not answering Samwise's question earlier. I live in Number 44 Bagshot Row

Eomer of the Rohirrim

05-20-2004, 11:00 AM

On a time there lived a couple of Wargs called Hirbak and Goldak. They lived a quiet life in the Tower Hills and didn't know too much about Men. To amuse themselves (amongst other activities) they conjured up storms, not violent storms, just strong enough to make the trees sway and make a 'pretty picture', so to speak.

Now, we at the Appreciation thread may know that Wargs can control the weather in certain ways, but few Men of Middle-earth knew this. So imagine their surprise when a tribe of Men of the Tower Hills stumbled upon these Wargs. Hirbak and Goldak were wary of Men, so when they were discovered they conjured up a quite frightful storm to scare the Men. The Men retreated in terror.

Hirbak and Goldak were amused by this, so every time the Men returned they conjured up more weather-related monstrosities to scupper their plans. Snow, lightning, even a tornado (which actually killed several of the Men and isn't too funny to be honest with you) and the Men couldn't get near the Wargs. Eventually they gave up and the home of Hirbak and Goldak was known only as a place of magic and sorcery among Men forevermore.

Of course, it wasn't magic or sorcery or witchcraft or anything like that. It was just a trivial example of Warg art.

SamwiseGamgee

05-21-2004, 02:00 PM

Yet another fine example, Eomer. I have just completed the reading of 'Beren and Luthien' in The Silmarillion. I wonder, are the wargs of the third age of ME related to the werewolves in that lay? Was Carcharoth a warg, just not referred to as such by the good professor?
Swiftly the wolf grew, until he could creep into no den, but lay huge and hungry before the feet of Morgoth. There the fire and anguish of hell entered him, and he became filled with a devouring spirit, tormented, terrible, and strong. Caracharoth, the Red Maw, he is named in the tales of those days, and Anfauglir, the Jaws of thirst. And Morgoth set him to lie unsleeping before the doors of Angband, lest Huan come.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

05-22-2004, 10:24 AM

I think it is highly likely that Carcharoth was a Warg. I mean, he was Wolf shaped and of awesome power.

High King Fingolfin

05-22-2004, 04:48 PM

Hail Warg-Lovers! I have been looking at this topic recently, but I did not think of posting on it until something happened last night. I saw a Warg. But not just any Warg - a black Warg. Great was my surprise when I saw it. Its fur was like a starless and moonless night, and it was ten feet long at least. Greater was my surprise when it unfurled a massive pair of wings, with feathers as black as its fur. I saw it lift off the ground and soar in front of the moon before it was lost to sight. I shall look for more of these, but I do not hope to find one.

SamwiseGamgee

05-24-2004, 07:30 AM

A warg with wings? Indeed this is strange. I have never heard of such a thing.
Eomer, do you know of such a creature or are you as amazed and perplexed as I?

Amariden Ravenhill

05-24-2004, 09:25 PM

Aye, I have, Samwise. There is many a tale told in the Green Dragon by old gaffers and gammers who swear that such creatures were numerous in their youth.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

05-25-2004, 06:38 AM

Indeed, it is a fiercely debated topic among Tolkienites - Did Wargs have wings?

I am also amazed by Fingolfin's tale. That is something to tell your grandchildren about! :D How wonderful that we Warg appreciators can still be shocked by all-new tales of Wargs. Does there remain any doubt about the magnificence of Wargs? I think not!

SamwiseGamgee

05-28-2004, 06:12 AM

On further research I have realised that there is in fact a fierce debate roaring as we speak in warg appreciation circles. I had apparently completely overlooked this raging argument during my studies of wargdom, but now that I do happen upon it I realise just why so many people are inclined to attempt to answer the riddle.
After all, what could be greater than proving an indisputable fact about a warg? Nothing, I suggest! Ah yes, the wide world of warginess is so ruch, so full and bountiful that few can claim to have even scratched its surface, much less explored it fully. Fingolfin's amazing sighting has underlined my own naivety in the world of wargs. At times like these I feel I have failed not only you fellow appreciators, but also that most beloved creature- the warg. I must go and take a long, hard look at myself.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

05-28-2004, 07:42 AM

I know the feeling Samwise. I once took part in a quiz with a fellow Warg enthusiast (for fun, like). To my eternal horror, I got a question glaringly wrong. The question was as follows;

"Which is the only continent that the Silver Warg calls home?"

Well, I was near enough stumped. But I took a guess after considering many factors and plumped for North America. Wrong! Wrong I was! The answer (as you probably all know) is, of course, Asia. Not to go mad with shame just yet, I calmly asked for the evidence. Within 2 days, my fellow Warg enthusiast had provided plenty of information, enough to convince me that the answer was indeed legitimate, and that I had got it wrong.

To punish myself, I starved myself for 5 weeks and at the end of this period I climbed the highest tree in the north-east of Scotland (some 180 feet high) and stayed there for 3 nights. Hell, it was, but I felt justified in doing this to myself.

For the love of Wargs, eh?

Of course, Samwise I'm not suggesting that you do anything stupid to yourself. On a side note, what's going on with the tale you're compiling? My heart yearns for the telling of the deeds of the Warg Rider.

Maeggaladiel

05-28-2004, 12:05 PM

Don't feel so bad, Eomer. Perhaps you were thinking of the legendary Sasqwarg, not the Silver Warg. The Sasqwarg, also known as Bigpaw, has been rumored to live deep in the forests of North America. In fact, there have been tales of Bigpaw living in my home state of Oregon! Imagine my excitement when I discovered that I was dwelling in Bigpaw territory!

True, there has been little hard evidence of this mysterious creature's existance; a fuzzy photo here, a wide-eyed camper's tale there. But stories of Bigpaw are numerous. Some say that Sasqwargs are the malicious spirits of wargs who were wrongfully slain by fearful pioneers crossing the country to Oregon Territory. Others claim that they are a Lazarus species; that is, they are living examples of the ancient mammoth wargs found in the fossil record of the late Cretaceous period. Under this theory, the Sasqwargs are the missing link between modern wolves and wargs. Still others say that they are fairylike spirits of the forest, protecting the trees and all creatures that dwell among them.

Many dismiss the claims of Sasqwarg existance as mere legend. After all, no scientist or hunter has ever captured a Sasqwarg. Stories and photographs are waved away as pure fabrication of the creature's existance.

I, however, believe otherwise. After reading up on the mysterious Sasqwarg, I have been led to believe that a pack or "tribe" of these strange beings have been inhabiting the woods around my house. I live in a relatively isolated area, between two mountains and a great forest. Sometimes, I feel as though someone is watching me. I turn around, but there is nothing but forest. Or is there? Many times at night I have heard strange sounds, like great creatures were performing a a dance outside my window. On full moons, I sometimes think I can see great dark shapes floating across the silvery landscape. Are they the Sasqwargs? If so, then I must disagree with any theory that these magestic creatures are evil spirits. I cannot explain why I feel this way, though I believe that if you happened to see the things I have seen, you would share my thoughts. Perhaps the Sasqwarg are indeed guardians of the forest, or ancient ancestors of the modern warg. I hope to continue my studies and deduce the true nature of these beings.

So please come out of the tree and starve yourself no longer, Lord Eomer. I do not know if beasts similar to the Sasqwarg roam Scotland, but I do not think a warg enthusiast such as yourself would miss the chance of finding that out. If they are indeed Lazarus species, perhaps some Sasqwargs crossed to present-day Scotland before Pangea could fully separate. Maybe some still survive. It would be a fascinating study, don't you think?

High King Fingolfin

05-28-2004, 06:05 PM

I have thought recently that since the people on Rivendell (http://amari.proboards21.com) have societies to prevent Hobbit abuse, we should have a foundation to prevent Warg abuse. I'm thinking of calling it W.A.P.F. (the Warg Abuse Prevention Foundation)

Eomer of the Rohirrim

05-29-2004, 07:22 AM

Maeg , that would indeed be a fascinating way to spend your life (it could probably consume many lifetimes actually). When thinking about these mysterious happenings outside your house, always remember that Wargs love to dance.

Fingolfin , Maeg herself once proposed something quite similar to what you have just proposed. However, we must always remember that Wargs, unlike Hobbits, are far, far more powerful than Men (or Elves in your case :) ) I am unconvinced as to what we could achieve for the cause of Wargs if we put our minds to it and started a society.

I don't think Men can save Wargs. If anything, I believe it is Wargs who can save Men.

SamwiseGamgee

05-31-2004, 05:32 AM

"The warg bows to no man. His ways are mysterious and for any to try to control him would be folly. The warg does as he pleases, and whether time or history judges him great or fell he concerns himself not with, for he is a warg and as such he thinks on greater things than any mere mortal such as you or I could ever contemplate." From 'The Warg Rider'

Apologies for the delay in my post, I have punished myself much as Eomer suggested by sitting several exams since last I posted. An awful way to spend a few days.
As you can see from the above, 'The Warg Rider' is coming along well, and I hope to have it posted in the not too distant future.
Just as a little aside, in two weeks I shall visit California and hope to head to Yosemite. Does any fellow warg enthusiast know of the best spot in that great park to spot one of the majestic beasts?

SamwiseGamgee

05-31-2004, 12:45 PM

In Middle Earth there live many strange and mysterious creatures. Those known as shepherds of the forest, great mountains which walk at night and demons of fire inhabit the same lands as halflings, giant spiders and men. There are legends and stories surrounding all these beings- man, elf, dwarf or otherwise. None, however, is surrounded by quite as much lore as the story of the Warg Rider.
In elder day if ever a young child were rude to his parents or would not sleep at night he would be warned: 'Hush, or the Warg Rider will get you!' And trust, that always hushed them, for they knew well of the Warg Rider. Black Scourge he was known as, or Cam Beleg, that is Mighty Hand. Some said that to stare into his eyes was to stare into one's own nightmare, and few who looked upon that terrible gaze slept another night soundly until they travelled West, for his eyes were not that of any creature from Middle Earth.
The Warg Rider was no mere mortal. The warg bows to no man. His ways are mysterious and for any to try to control him would be folly. The warg does as he pleases, and whether time or history judges him great or fell he concerns himself not with, for he is a warg and as such he thinks on greater things than any mere mortal such as you or I could ever contemplate. The Warg Rider was of the lesser Maiar. His will was furious and as steel. Long had he learned at the feet of Melkor, and when his deceitful Master rebelled so too did his student. For many years the Warg Rider served his Master, until greed and ambition overcame him. He was the master of Caracharoth, and long had he fed that fell beast at the feet of Melkor, and it was there that he hatched his foul plan.
As he sat with his Dark Lord he looked upon those most beautiful of things ere shaped by the hands of any: the Silmarils. And as he looked upon them so his heart grew envious, and day by day his jealousy grew and grew so that he could restrain himself no longer. He spake to his beloved friend Caracharoth, saying: "Surely we could have those for ourselves. Then we could rid ourselves of all opponents and become Lords of the Earth!"
Caracharoth was not so sure, though. He was weary of the Warg Rider's inane babble and so, in a faceless act of self-promotion, he went to the Black Throne and told Melkor of the Warg Rider's fell plan.
Melkor's fury was as the stampeding hooves of the Rohirrim, and the sky was filled with thunder as the Dark Lord poured out his fury upon the Warg Rider.
"So you would have us all bow to you, mighty Cam Beleg? You would take the jewels of Feanor from my crown and have them for yourself? Your treachery runs blacker than I had imagined, and your heart is of deceit and nought else.
"You could have been my mightiest Lieutenant had you not had delusions of grandeur. Instead, you will become my most accursed foe!"
And with that the Dark Lord struck down on the Warg Rider and restrained him to a body of an orc, hunched and ignoble with all the glory he once held dear but a distant memory. His black skin was a mass of open sores and pox and a great stench followed him everywhere.
"Go, now, treacherous spawn of the maw. May your days be many and each as unpleasant as the one before!" And so did Caracharoth chase the Warg Rider from the fortress of Angband and into the wilderness, where he roamed for many a year. In that time he committed many a foul deed and found himself many foes and allies alike by his deceitful tongue and eyes. Among those allies were the wargs, and from there begins the true story of the Warg Rider.
For some unknown reason the Warg Rider had a natural affinity with wargs. After all, was that not why the Dark Lord had chosen him as the keeper of Caracharoth? And so, by means foul or fair the Warg Rider grew a great number of wargs unto himself. Never did he make an attempt to take land or establish his own fell kingdom. He simply roamed from land to land with his armies making war with all he encountered.
It should be noted that the Warg Rider had also drawn a great number of men, orcs and other fell beasts unto himself. His army was not simply of wargs, though it was strong. Strong enough, in fact, that the Warg Rider judged his arm was long enough to avenge his humiliation: he would seek out Melkor and show him just how strong he had become.
In preparation for this most audacious of attacks the Warg Rider called all strength unto himself. All his allies were made to repay their favours and so his army was vast. As the sand upon the shore the men numbered, and twice as many orcs marched. And there, at the head of the army were the wargs. Few have ever dared estimate just how many wargs the Black Scourge managed to recruit. Some say one thousand; some say one thousand times that number. None truly know, though, and it would be useless to suppose. Suffice to say that when Melkor heard of the great host that marched upon his fortress he did sit up on his Black Throne and take notice.
At the very head of the army the Warg Rider rode upon the mightiest of wargs known to him. Some called his the Red Fury, and yet other Devourer of Souls while the Easterlings had named him the Dream Eater. Truth be told, all but that warg himself had forgotten his name: Kharak the Great, great grandfather of Kharak the Cruel, King of Moria, named the One Eyed. He was the greatest warg who ere walked upon Middle Earth. Blacker than the night was his fur, and his eyes were blue and brown and green and red all at once. His frame was as that a score of massive bulls and his strength beyond double that. He was the greatest of the great and all who were in his presence were at odds with themselves as to whether they should fall to the ground in awe or flee in terror. Kharak cared not what others thought or said of him, he lived only for his destiny: to slay a child of Arda and bring a time of peace in Middle Earth. Such had the Lord Ulmo told him and such would come to pass, of this Kharak was sure.
And so after a great trek came the army of the Warg Rider to that great Black Gate of Angband, with the Thangorodrim casting a dark shadow across his path, and thus he spake: “Here returns Cam Beleg, the Black Scourge, called the Warg Rider. He that was accursed and cast out by that most jealous of Masters has returned and wishes an audience with the Dark Lord!”
There was a gasp in the fortress. Few had dared to even look upon its walls, much less challenge its Lord. Nonetheless, from his Black Throne did Melkor stir, and answered him thus: “Your nerve has changed not, little creature. Do you not realise you are as a speck to me. I could crush you like rotten fruit if I pleased.
“My mercy has been great in allowing you to live, now get thee hence before that mercy runs out!”
In his very soul the Warg Rider was set alight with fury, and with a wrath which took even Melkor by surprise he screamed: ‘I shall not be gone! Open your Black Gates, or have them opened for you!”
At his word his army was inspired and he let out a mighty shout, but Melkor’s wrath was now ignited and so the Black Gate of Angband was opened, and its terrible retribution poured out on the Warg Rider’s army. From Angband came orcs, men, balrogs and dragons, and their anger was awful.
Of the many battles fought that day surely one of the greatest was between Ughruk, Prince of Moria and son to Kharak and Morthlak, Lieutenant of the Balrogs, second only to Gothmog. These two creatures did clash at the gates of Angband, and their battle was consuming to the last. Though Ughruk’s fur was on fire he fought on, determined to slay his opponent and go on to help the Warg Rider in his quest for justice- for as such did the warg Rider legitimise his attack upon Angband. His determination would prove for little, though. The two locked in mortal combat, and though his silver fur was ablaze and it filled his mouth with the pain of one thousand burning brands Ughruk drove his fangs deep into the throat of Morthlak. The fell demon of fire was wounded beyond repair and knew so as he fell to one knee, his great wings casting a shadow across the battlefield as though the sun had been pierced through her heart. His treachery was not satisfied, though, for as he fell he drove his sword of flame deep into the heart of his foe and the scream that Ughruk let out is still referred to today when a mischievous child asks what that noise was his mother tells him it was Ughruk’s death cry, and to hush now. And so these two foes fell side by side at the Black Gate of Angband.
Meanwhile, Kharak the Great and the Warg Rider dove through the throng of Melkor’s armies and ever closer to the Black Throne. As they went they slew man and orc indiscriminately. The fury of the Warg Rider is still talked of this day, and it is said his eyes glowed redder than the blood of a lamb as he and Kharak burst into the Great Hall of Angband and there he set eyes upon the Dark Lord, Melkor. From the back of Kharak he slipped as he stood and addressed Melkor.
“Cower now in your throne! I have earned my audience with you now, Dark Lord, so hold silence while I speak!” And so did he speak: “You cast me out when you should have taken me closer. What is it that is oft said in the drinking halls of men: keep your friends close but thine enemies nearer!
“Well, Dark Lord in your Dark Castle sitting on your Dark Throne, what say thee now? I am Fausiel that is named the Mighty Hand, and the Black Scourge and the Warg Rider. I am a child of Arda and I have come to claim what I deserve: the jewels of Feanor you wear upon your crown!”
At that Melkor stood, and the very earth trembled and battle halted as his voice filled the air, and it was like thunder and lightning. Deeper than the depths of Ulmo’s oceans and yet shriller than the cry of the lark, and it froze the blood of all who heard it.
“You have grown strong indeed if you think you can challenge me. I too am a child of Arda, do you forget? I am the mightiest of that family and as such you should fall to your face and worship me. But no, you challenge me. So be it.”
And at that moment from behind the Warg Rider pounced Kharak the Great, and he sunk his great claws deep into the chest and his huge fangs deep into the throat of the Warg Rider!
“What is it they say: keep your friends close, but thine enemies closer?” said Melkor, his laughter filling the sky and trembling the roots of the mountains, “That doesn’t seem to work, now, does it.
“This is Kharak, son of Caracharoth!”
And so all at once the Warg Rider realised that the power and deceit of Melkor ran deeper and blacker than he could ever have hoped to fathom. As he died he stared deep into the eyes of Kharak, and there he saw all the pain and suffering of the wargs at his own deceitful and brutal hands, realising he had grown overconfident in his own accomplishments. And so died the Warg Rider.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

05-31-2004, 01:48 PM

Lots and lots of respect your way Samwise! That story was awesome!

It makes me think that other Orcs since then have taken up the title of 'The Warg Rider', though they are not the original. Perhaps a sign of respect to their hero. I say this because there are definitely records of Third Age characters such as Theoden of Rohan being tormented by The Warg Rider. A very interesting revelation.

SamwiseGamgee

06-01-2004, 05:16 PM

Thank you for your kind words, Eomer. The story, of course, isn't mine, though. I have merely shared history with you and so no glory can be mine.
I think you are probably right as regards your supposition on others taking the name of the Warg Rider. After all, that was a title given to him much as Cam Beleg or Black Scourge, so it is possible that others were given that title.
However, none would be quite as great as the 'original and best'.
Eomer, as far as a warg protection society goes- it may not be possible to protect the warg- for he needs it not- but we could always line our own pockets with the donations. What think thee? Choose swiftly!

Eomer of the Rohirrim

06-02-2004, 06:03 AM

It would be most dishonest to steal from other Warg enthusiasts (regardless of how much leffe we could buy with the earnings!).

The name Cam Beleg, Samwise, I have heard it before. Wither have we seen it in modern times? Do you know?

SamwiseGamgee

06-02-2004, 05:18 PM

Cam Beleg, literally translated, means Mighty Hand or Fist.
In recent times there has appeared a superstar in the crazy business of sports entertainment who goes by this name. He is showcased on WWE SmackDown! and is a fearsome creature, though not the scelerious wretch that the original was!
I hope that answers your query, Eomer. And by the way- surely a lifetime of warg burgers and Leffe could justify anything?

Eomer of the Rohirrim

06-03-2004, 03:18 PM

I am sorry to disagree with you Samwise but there are certain things I would NOT do for any amount of leffe. You can probably guess a couple, no need to list them!

Imagine my delight when I found out today that in 3rd year philosophy at my university I get to study the little known branch of Warg philosophy. I cannot wait! :D

SamwiseGamgee

06-07-2004, 05:20 AM

What a fine institute that must be! Not one of these 'new' universities. To be teaching warg philosophy takes an ancient and established university. I know of only four in the world which teach it. You should feel honoured!
Eomer, I am surprised at you: surely the end justifies the means? Perhaps I have rather too much Boris in me!

Eomer of the Rohirrim

06-07-2004, 06:03 AM

Oh Boris! Is that the darkest tale of Wargs yet listed on this thread? :(

As for the University, it is in fact a very old place. The University of Aberdeen was founded in 1495 and it has been teaching Warg philosophy since the very start. It is a little known fact that both David Hume and Benedictus Spinoza studied there and the ancient legacy of Wargs greatly shaped their work, which is, of course, still fascinating today.

SamwiseGamgee

06-09-2004, 12:05 PM

I know of this David Hume, but of your Benedictus Spinoza I have no knowlege. Who is this chap and what are his links with wargs?

Eomer of the Rohirrim

06-09-2004, 03:48 PM

Spinoza was a famous Dutch philosopher with some pretty far-out ideas. At a young age he was cast out of his family home for having heretic opinions about religion. Not many people know this but he was actually taken in by a group of Wargs and was taught the ways of the universe.

Spinoza is most well-known for his belief that there is only one substance, that being God. Hardly anyone remembers this now, but Spinoza actually thought that that one substance, that God, was a Warg.

This thought appears strange, even to me. However, its a fascinating topic. Although, as a general thought, we tend to imagine our Gods in the shape of Men. I think this is most strange and egocentric of us. Why shouldn't God be a Warg?

SamwiseGamgee

06-10-2004, 05:25 AM

Indeed, I once remember your signature to have been: if an ox could draw a god he would draw an ox. Well: if I could draw a god I would draw a warg!

Eomer of the Rohirrim

06-10-2004, 08:47 AM

Me too. There is a thread on 'heavy rotation' at the moment in the Books section which mentions Wargs, although some Downers have been showing a bit of disrespect to our saviours. 'Wargs weren't powerful' and other such nonsense.

When will people learn eh? Probably never. The Ice Age will take us all and the Wargs will shake their heads and forget about us.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

06-11-2004, 11:16 AM

I was thinking about writing a tale in which appears characters from The Tumilovich Conundrum (ever read that book? Its wonderful). However, its not really got anything to do with Middle-earth so I probably should not bother.

I have other stories though, including one featuring a glorious day in Khand, as well as one which sheds some light on the mystery of the Rhun hills.

SamwiseGamgee

06-11-2004, 11:30 AM

I have heard of that book. A mixture of Dante's 'Divine Comedy' and Roald Dahl's 'Esio Trot', apparently.
Tell us, please, of the stories of Khand. Is there perhaps a link between the wargs and the infamous 'Party in Khand'?

Nimrothiel

06-11-2004, 12:02 PM

Greetings, Warg enthusiasts. I am newly come to post in this thread, though not a tale as of yet. A question plagues my mind, one that I would fain have answered before Eomer of the Rohirrim elects to share with us his doubtless fascinating tale. My question is this: Did only Cam Beleg hold the title of "The Warg Rider," or did more than one such entity exist? If so, were the Warg Riders only evil, or did some fight on the side of good? If so, I will do all within my power to find a tale concerning this aspect of Warg history.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

06-12-2004, 03:47 PM

Greetings Nimrothiel, so good to have another Warg enthusiast join us at the Appreciation Thread. :)

In answer to your questions about the Warg Rider, we here believe to have discovered new things about him only recently. (You can trawl through previous posts to see how we got there). So, here goes my attempt at a general summery.

Cam Beleg was the original and greatest Warg Rider, and the tale of his greatest exploits can be read in Samwise's excellent post a little bit before this one. In after years, more and more beings (I believe they were all Orcs) were sometimes attributed the title of 'The Warg Rider' and, though they were all far less powerful than Cam Beleg himself, they yet kept alive the fear that Cam Beleg could instill in Middle-earth.

The Two Towers movie has given rise to a popular misunderstanding of so-called Warg Riders. I'm sure you all remember Saruman's line in that film "Send out your Warg Riders!" directed to what appeared to be a normal Orc. In the following battle which featured these 'Warg Riders' and the Rohirrim, it is easy for the audience to assume certain things about 'Warg Riders'.

This is a misconception. There are no such things as Warg Riders. Sure, there are riders who ride on Wargs, but that is altogether different. At any one time there is only one Warg Rider.

And in answer to your other query, the Warg Rider is always, but always evil.

Nimrothiel

06-14-2004, 12:55 AM

Ah, thank you for that clarification. Excuse me, but I feel the pull of some other thread that is less static and more flexible. Sorry to have wasted screen space for a post by a fellow enthusiast. Note: I did not say "fellow Warg enthusiasts" for this very reason; I fear that I have wasted time and effort in my now vain pursuit of the "good" Warg Rider.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

06-14-2004, 06:46 AM

'The Good Warg Rider' is an oxymoron, Nimrothiel. But surely there are enough delights to keep you tuned to the thread? The tale of how Wargs were linked to the legendary 'Party in Khand' will be arriving shortly.

High King Fingolfin

06-14-2004, 01:45 PM

I apologize for the idea Eomer, it was frivolous and I should never have brought it up.(It was my sister's idea actually.) As to my earlier tale of the black Warg with wings, I personally think this Warg was an isolated case, it is probably a rare phenomenon among black Wargs.
Samwise, your tale of the Warg Rider was wonderful! I never suspected that Kharak was the son of Carcharoth.
More Warg tales later.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

06-15-2004, 07:25 AM

But Fingolfin, after your revelation about the Winged Warg, more whispers have been unearthed regarding such beasts. It appears that the Winged Warg has been a long-kept secret, but perhaps the mystery shall be unravelled soon. I myself intend to find one this weekend by delving deep into the dark forests. What a sight it would be!

Please do keep the tales coming Fingolfin. I think we also need Samwise back to tell one as I guess that he has a plethora of Warg stories to unleash. The next time I post it shall be the tale of the Party in Khand. It is a tale both joyous and melancholy, and once more underlines the fact that Wargs have more power than the forces of evil.

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh

06-15-2004, 05:01 PM

Though there is but one Warg Rider, mighty in legend and song, yet not alone is he among those who have dared in their temerity set bridle to the noble Warg. Indeed, his legend hath but proven the spur that hath kindled in Elf, Man, Dwarf, Orc and yea even Hobbit, to assay this self-same feat.

Of these brave yet misguided souls, the most have perished; their souls unhoused by the blazing wrath of the Wargs, who brook no attempt to master them. Yet others, the proud and noble few, have found favour with the wise Wargs, and have become their allies; being borne without saddle or bridle, for none the Warg chooses to bear of his own accord is suffered to fall from his broad back. And of these mighty Warg-friends, the greatest that is told of in the tales of the Elves is Morsil, the Dark Sheen.

It is told that in the days of Orodreth there lived by the Narog a solitary Elven warrior, skilled in war and song; and the goodwill of bird and beast was his, for he had vowed that never should any creature fall needlessly to his blade. Such a one was Morsil, a lone wanderer of hill and glen. And he was mighty among the Elves of Nargothrond, and failed never to answer the summons of his lord, nor the call of a friend in need.

So it came to pass that on a time his wanderings brought him into lands where dwelt of old a noble tribe of Wargs. Their chief and guardian was the mighty Warg-lord, Balcarkh, who is known also as the Jaws of Fate. Balcarkh knew well of any who passed within his realm, for the beasts, the trees, even the very wind were his allies, and news came to him from all quarters of happenings both great and small. Resolved to punish the insolence of one who would enter his kingdom without due obeisance to his majesty, the great Warg strode forth to meet the intruder, and so it was that he came alone to the edge of his realm and into the hunting grounds of the Petty Wargs. These creatures are more often found in the service of the Orcs and Goblins, for they lack the dignity and freedom of spirit that are the mark of the True Warg. Envious they are of their cousins, and yet contemptuous, for lacking honour in themselves they see it not in any other. And they came upon the dread Warg-lord and fell upon him in great numbers, for it was their way so to bring a strong foe to his knees. Nonetheless it went ill with them that day, for fully half their number were slain before first claw or fang were laid to the Warg-lord's flesh; yet their claws were smeared with poison, and they came upon him with such fury that the day would have gone ill with him had not Morsil come by in his hour of need.

The mighty sword of Morsil sprang unto his hand, shimmering with an inner flame as do the weapons of the High Elves; and he fought by the side of the great Warg until the foe were routed and lay piled about them. And his skills of healing were applied to the treacherous wounds of the Petty Wargs, and so was formed the alliance of Morsil and Balcarkh, whose deeds are writ large in the legends of the Elder Days. Indeed, many an age after their story ended, a bard of Rohan wrote of them a lament, a fragment of which yet remains, though oft misremembered as a chant for the Rohirrim.

Where now the Warg and his rider? Where are the lungs that were blowing?
Where are the sword and the hauberk, and the bright pelt flowing?
Where is the claw on the harpstring, and the red tongue glowing?
Where are the mate and the lair, and the young Wargs growing?
They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow;
The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

06-16-2004, 03:54 AM

Squatter, it is wonderful to welcome yet another subscriber to the Appreciation Thread, especially a Downer held in awe by all such as yourself. :)

Excellent tale, I must say. The revelation about the poem of the Rohirrim is a real eye-opener for me. I have the traditional poem stuck on my wall and, though it is magnificent, it is only enhanced by the truth of the content.

I must apologise for the delay in my post. I had hoped to regail you all with a tale today, but events took an unexpected twist. I was in my study all set to put my notes together when, out of the blue, a wild Spider Monkey came crashing through my window. It rampaged through the room causing a frightful and most damaging mess of catastrophic proportions. It soon emitted a low subsonic scream in challenge of combat. It was just as well for yours truly that my father was at home at the time and, with his previous experience of fighting monkeys, was fully able to deal with this remarkable problem which had bulldozed its way into my day. It was a gory battle, and my father has now lost his sight in his left eye due to a particularly vicious gouge by the fiendish simian. However, the monkey was finally defeated, after my father employed a lethal karate chop to the beast's neck.

My study is now in a terrible mess and it may be a while before I can finally tell you all what happened in Khand on that weird and wonderful day.

SamwiseGamgee

06-16-2004, 09:08 AM

What heinosity! I can hardly believe it. Just as well, indeed, that your father is such an expert monkey fighter. It reminds me of a tale regarding a golf commentator's daughter and a lifelong quest to eradicate all monkeys from the face of this planet. Gruesome.
Moving on, though, I depart in the eventide tomorrow for that fair land of Californai, and so shall I be fiendishly held from posting on this wonderous thread. If I get a chance I may post a field report and let you know how my warg spotting is going. I imagine I'll probably spend about eight days in a tent, just hoping to see a warg. One can but wish.
I'd also just like to welcome the newcomers to this thread (seems strange saying that to the Squatter!) and just comfort them with the fact that here at the Warg and Warg Rider Appreciation Thread we are a bunch of anally retentive warg-geeks (I'm speaking for Eomer and myself here), so if at first we seem slightly inflexible and stuck in our ways bear with us, it is many years of disappointment at the hands of this cruel world and its hatred of wargs that has made us this way!
And now I leave, may wargs speed my journey. Ciao

Eomer of the Rohirrim

06-16-2004, 03:23 PM

Um...well said Samwise. :D

Have a most totally bodacious time in California. I'm sure the Wargs of the area already know of your coming but what they will do about it, I cannot say. As regards the golf commentator with the vendetta, I believe his name was Clive and he was a most controversial Englishman. Well, thats another story and another topic.

I promise, the next post I make shall be my long-overdue tale of Khand. Due to the delay I suspect that you will all be expecting far more of it than I can deliver. Nevermind, it features Wargs, what can possibly go wrong?

Diamond18

06-16-2004, 06:48 PM

Introduction:

As I was walking down a dark and desolate street one night I came across a one armed man; this man had four scars running from his left cheekbone to his right collarbone, and it was a magnificent sight to see. He was dressed in tattered leather breeches and shirt made from a cheetah pelt. His hair was long and unkempt, and in his one hand (which had only four fingers) he clutched a bottle of Jack Daniels. He was, I soon saw, as drunk as a skunk in a runk. He hailed me as I passed by, telling me that if I would but gift him with money enough to buy himself supper (I rather suspected he really wanted to buy another bottle of hooch) he would tell me a tale the likes of which I had never heard.

I am, of course, always willing to interrupt my jaunts down dark, desolate streets to listen to tales told by drunken men in cheetah pelts, so I agreed. What follows is a tale so immense, so harrowing, so cheeky, and so far out, that it could only be about a Warg.

Disclaimer:

My source was completely sauced at the time of the telling, so what follows may challenge the common understanding of what it is to be a Warg, but I wash my hands completely and utterly of any controversial content.

Once again, and without further ado, I give you the borrowed tale of The Treasure Trove of Kum-bat-kûl

Long ago, in the depths of time, (somewhere not long after the Fourth age but long before this Seventh) in what we now know as the Darkest Darky-Dark Heart of Africa, there lived a race of Wargs akin, perhaps, to the Black Winged Wargs sighted by one High King Fingolfin of the BD. These Wargs, however, were not all black, but a whole variety of majestic colors (which yet included black). Pelts of gold, emerald, jade, royal purple, indigo, and blood red, were not uncommon. They had vast wings, and were known as the Amazing Many Colored Flying Wargs, or the Painted Winged Wargs, or Kum-bat-kûl's Flying Circus. Their Chieftan, the Great Immortal Warg Kum-bat-kûl, was an ancient, immense beast who had been born whilst the Elves still walked upon the land. His coat was of many colors, his eyes were shining lights, and his great whip of a tail measured 15 feet in length.

The Wargs of Kum-bat-kûl lived in gargantuan caverns known as the Kaleidoscope Caverns, so bright and colorful were their bejeweled walls. These caverns did not only sprawl beneath the earth, but rose inside of the tallest mountains, and many chambers opened upon the mountains faces, creating balconey halls at dizzying heights. The Wargs, however, being flying Wargs, cherished the heights rather than shunned them, and the Kaleidoscope Caverns were known far and wide.

Kum-bat-kûl so loved colors that he also hung great tapestries from the ceilings and draped priceless rugs dyed in every hue imaginable on the floors. The Wargs of Kum-bat-kûl were known far and wide for their gaudy, yet refined tastes, and dignitaries from other Wargs tribes (whose own renown has been cause for yet more tales too numerous to enumerate here) gifted the Painted Winged Wargs with jewels, paintings, silks, etc. of priceless worth and seriously garish coloring. Thus, the Caverns became the home of a mind-boggingly magnificent treasure trove.

These Wargs, like all Wargs, were fearsome beasts. Do not let their love of pretty things confuse or mislead you -- they could kick hiney with the best of Wargs, and indeed, some of the wilder Wargs of this race were fond of staining their teeth red with the blood of humans. One such faction were the followers of Larre, (also known as "He Who Was Wrong in the Head"). They would sneak out in the depth of moonless nights, when the other Wargs were sleeping, and they would fly over the plains and jungles in search of Mischief. Some of this Mischief was harmless enough, such as Lion Pong, but in their darker hours they were known to snatch babes from the huts of humans and take them flying high, high, high in the air (as some friendly Wargs of the Painted Clan often did to amuse their human friends) and then, without warning, drop these poor beings to their deaths on the ground below.

Larre and his sadistic followers were found out and punished by Kum-bat-kûl and his High Wargs, but still the stain of their perversion was remembered among the people. Yet another instance in a long, long, long, and I mean really long, line of unfortunate miscreants who have blemished the reputation of Wargs.

The glory days of the Wargs of Kum-bat-kûl has long since passed out of time and memory among many. But still, in the heart of Africa, are those who remember the old tales.

My strangely clad drunken friend was once a big game hunter in said Africa, and one day he met an old shaman who told him the tale of the Wargs. This man had been ignored by his people, labeled senile -- a raving madman. The hunter (who would only tell me to call him Hunter) alone listened in full to the shaman's tale. And once he had heard it, he took it in heart and mind to find the Treasure Trove of Kum-bat-kûl and take it for his own.

Long he sought it, experiencing many adventures too numerous to recount. He traveled the length and breadth of Africa searching ever and anon for riches and glory and Wargish history.

And then, one day, in the merry month of May, he came to it. An opening into the earth, like so many other openings he had seen before. Could this cave, he wondered, be the cave? It was. He found the Treasure Trove, and sought to take it from its hallowed grave out into the sunlight, and then sell it on Ebay.

This was his mistake. For the Wargs of Kum-bat-kûl, though long gone in memory, still lived. They were very few in number, but their fearsome leader still lead them, as it were. And Kum-bat-kûl, with the wisdom of a True Warg, could see into the heart of Man and when he peered curiously in the heart of the Hunter, he saw his dreams of personal glory and riches, and Ebay, and he disapproved. The Hunter, drunk on delusions of grandeur, didn't take "No" for an answer, and with his guns and knives and electronic chopsticks he challenged Kum-bat-kûl to a duel for the right to lead the Painted Wargs and do whatsoever he wanted to with the Treasure Trove.

Kum-bat-kûl accepted the challenge, and as you can guess, roundly beat the Hunter. All his gadgets and cunning could not stand against the mighty Paw and Claw and Tooth of the Great Immortal Warg. Yet, Kum-bat-kûl was also merciful, and did not take the life of the Hunter. Instead, he sent him back out into the world to spread his story of warning against greed, foolishness, delusions of grandeur, and the habit of wearing cheetah pelts.

End of story.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

06-17-2004, 09:03 AM

A hearty welcome to yet another distinguished Downer at the Appreciation Thread. That was a most unusual tale Diamond, insofar as it is unusual to hear about the treasuries of Wargs in tales these days. To meet someone who has fought a Warg though, well that just boggles the mind. I hope he realises how lucky he is to be alive and to have such tales and wisdom (for knowledge of the ways of Wargs is wisdom).

It just goes to show that drunken crazy men can be extremely interesting. As if we didn't already know that! ;)

Does this tale end any doubt as to the existence of winged Wargs?

Arwen Evenstar

06-17-2004, 03:00 PM

A winged-warg? I don`t see why not! After all, balrogs have wings and I will do fighting on my part for anyone who denies it. :)

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh

06-17-2004, 03:32 PM

Thank you all for your most cordial welcome. As a humble student in the lore of Wargs, I can only echo the off-the-record words of Pengolodh the Wise of Gondolin: "Let none, whether Elf or Man or indeterminate squishy thing, be held in awe. For the mighty Warg, noblest of Eru's creatures, hath taught us how unworthy are we of any such honour."

Your story is one to harrow up the doughtiest soul, Diamond, and it is not the only account that exists of the meetings betwixt Warg and human in the chances of the world. Recently I had occasion to visit a shop that deals in rare and antiquarian books, for I was in search of a copy of Professor S. Bickerstaff's watershed treatise, A Paleontological History of the Wargish Species (Ottle University Press, 1873). Since there are only eight known copies in existence, I held scant hope of laying hands on my prize; but in glancing through a disorderly collection of writings on Wargish matters, I was fortunate enough to discover the extremely rare A Conversational Dictionary of the Wargish Tongue by Major C.E.V. Forbes-Clithering, M.C., the noted Victorian adventurer. I'm sure that you will share my joy and excitement that this copy had belonged to none other than the Major himself, and that within the weighty tome I found what appears to be an account of his celebrated discovery of the Greater Sub-continental Hirsuit Warg.

This earth-shattering event, from which the field of Warg studies is still recovering, occurred while Major Forbes-Clithering was serving with the Seventeenth Bengal Lancers, in which he held a commission from 1868 to 1874. He and several other officers had organised a tiger-hunting party, and had established their hide in a clearing that bore the distinct signs of habitation by a large carnivore; but what began as a simple hunting trip was soon to catapult these men into the public eye with breathtaking force. Major Forbes-Clithering takes up the tale.

"Having awaited our quarry for some six hours, we had begun to consider the removal of our hide to another clearing some four and a half miles to the north-east. No sooner had we had reached a consensus, however, than our attention was diverted by the distinctive sounds of a large animal in the brush at the edge of the clearing. Believing this to be the rogue Bengal which was our principal game, Lieutenant Fitzmorris and I aimed our rifles at some undergrowth, in which we had noticed the signs of movement. At that moment it burst forth upon us, snatching up the goat and devouring it in a single snap of its prodigious jaws. This beast was greater by far than any tiger yet recorded; swathed about with thick, sleek hair of astounding length. Its eyes burned with a feral intelligence that caused us all to imagine that at any moment it might speak to us and bid us depart from its domain.

Indeed, the creature had divined our presence. Our treetop hides were no more a mystery to this lord of the jungle than had we been standing directly before it. Lieutenant Fitzmorris, who had marked himself out to me on prior occasions as a man of limited foresight, fired directly at its head at a distance of not more than twenty-five yards, and yet his shot had no visible effect. Instead, rearing upon its majestic hind legs, the creature, which can only have been of the genus Vulpus Nobilis Sapiens, slashed through the bole of that mighty tree with one blow of its great talons, causing the men who were at that time hiding within it to fall to their deaths. Lieutenant Fitzmorris it picked up and flung against my own tree, treading his broken body into the earth where it fell in evident contempt. Then it stared directly into my eyes, and I seemed to hear words as though spoken from far away:

'Do not wander in our domain with such toys as these; for only harm will befall those who seek to pursue the Wargs into their hidden fastnesses. The great cat you seek has displeased us and is dead. We have no use for its body, which you may do with as you will: it lies to the south, at the borders of our country.'

I stood as one palsied, unable to speak. I lowered my rifle in something akin to awe, while majestically the great Warg turned and strode back into the jungle. I have never seen before or since a sight of such awesome grandeur as I was vouchsafed that day in Bengal; nor would I trust my life again to such a tenuous thread of goodwill as then preserved me from destruction. I have heard it said that of all creatures, Man alone has the power of speech; and yet I swear that on that day I encountered a being that surpasses us in wisdom and spirit as completely as it does in strength and speed. Since that day I have hunted for pleasure no more, so deeply was I impressed."

Diamond18

06-17-2004, 04:13 PM

A hearty welcome to yet another distinguished Downer at the Appreciation Thread.

*bows* Thank you, kind sir. I am honored to enter the discussion halls of such august and devoted Warg scholars. I am amazed at the travels undertaken and tomes searched for information about the species -- my own discovery was fortuitous, a matter of being in the right alley at the right time.

That was a most unusual tale Diamond, insofar as it is unusual to hear about the treasuries of Wargs in tales these days.

Indeed. I feel it is an aspect of Warg culture largely overlooked, and 'tis a shame. The Wargs, while not greedy by nature, could appreciate the finer things in life as well as bones dripping with fresh marrow. Would it not be fascinating to stroll the halls of a Warg Museum, wherein all the ancient writings and artefacts of Wargdom are preserved in a place of honor? Why, methinks even Kum-bat-kûl himself would not object to a part of his treasure on display, though that is only conjecture, never having met the esteemed fellow myself.

To meet someone who has fought a Warg though, well that just boggles the mind. I hope he realises how lucky he is to be alive and to have such tales and wisdom (for knowledge of the ways of Wargs is wisdom).

Alas, his debauched and disheveled state leads me to suspect the horrors of being taken to town by a Warg has had a more lasting effect on him than the mercy shown afterwards. Yet, he still tells his tale to any who will listen, as was Kum-bat-kûl's wish, so that's something.

But this leads me to a question: I am somewhat suspicious of one aspect of the Hunter's tale. That being, that Kum-bat-kûl himself still lives. Is there a known precedent for immortal Wargs? Surely, they are mystical beasts, but I have not heard of them being a deathless race before. I wonder if the Hunter did not simply encounter a descendant of Kum-bat-kûl? I can only wonder, though, since he was adamant that it was the Great One himself, and I was in no position to question him at the moment. It is intriguing, though, to be sure.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

06-18-2004, 07:48 AM

We touched on the subject of Warg mortality earlier in the thread, though we came to no concrete conclusions. Some suppose that Wargs are actually lesser Ainur. Feel free to start this discussion again if it interests you Diamond I am sure you will find many willing contributors! :D

Squatter, I have indeed heard of this major you speak of. Indeed, I think I may be related to him. Perhaps that is where the lust for knowledge of Wargs comes from. A fine fellow he was, I hear...

And Arwen, so nice to see that you are taking an interest in the Appreciation Thread. Please do stick around. I am sure you will be a changed person after experiencing these astounding tales. Perhaps you have seen a Warg with your own eyes! Please share the story if you have. :)

I did type up my Khand-story but for some reason I wasn't allowed to post it and I lost about 40 minutes of my life that I will never get back. Ah! the Downs, tis a wise, but at times cruel, lover.

Try again, try again...

Eomer of the Rohirrim

06-18-2004, 07:59 AM

...or 'The only thing that ever happened in Khand.'

Not every place in Middle-earth was the scene of some tumultuous battle. There were actually many quiet, relatively-trouble free areas, and Khand was certainly one of them. Boasting large green fields and a few pleasant rivers, it was quite surprising that so few people lived there. Perhaps it was because Khand had a reputation for being dull. It was (and still is) a common saying in Middle-earth when you are offered something unexciting; "Aye, settle doon. It's Khand."

But maybe not. Perhaps it was the ever-present threat of Mordor which loomed rather too close for comfort. However, Mordor was not particularly strong at this point. Gangamel, an Uruk who marshalled the troops, had pulled all his forces together to defend the pass at Minas Morgul. This was in preparation for the expected assault led by the Elves, Eagles and Ents of Elrond Halfelven. Elrond was currently using Khand as a station for his remaining people.

The rest of Middle-earth was being dominated by a bewilderingly large army marshalled by Gorgomoth, the rebel Uruk and Lord of Moria. Not since the heyday of Morgoth had Middle-earth been under such threat. Finally the war between Elrond and Gangamel kicked off and nearly all the forces of Elrond were slaughtered in Minas Morgul. Gangamel was victorious, if you can call it that, because he now had barely any defence whatsoever. A comical example of this is when he pulled his troops back from the Shire to help Mordor, leaving only three Orcs to fight a huge Red Army away in the North.

So Khand remained the only place for the fair folk of Middle-earth to dwell in, and that would only be for a matter of weeks, as Gorgomoth was determined. Elrond was defeated (or so he believed) so he did what he thought was best; he organised the most dynamic party he could. Now, let's not pretend that this was the greatest party ever. Middle-earth had seen many grander occasions than this. However, it was still a very excellent attempt at a great party, considering the time constraints they were under and the impending death which faced them. The people had a great time. Bands such as The Flaming Lips and Yeah Yeah Yeahs rocked Middle-earth to its very core, and there were even appearances by Terry Wogan, Rolf Harris and Roberto Carlos da Silva for the Elves to appreciate. The importance of the party cannot be ignored. This was a single solid gesture of defiance to evil. It was a celebration of goodness at the very door of wickedness. As Andrew WK might say; "You can't kill the party, long live the party!"

Still, the end of the fun neared, and with many Elves sleeping or under the influence of some foreign weed (supplied by Wayne Coyne, who had been visiting the Hobbits) the Wargs finally appeared. Now, these were true Wargs. Let us not forget that evil Wargs were still fighting for Gorgomoth. Alas! such is the way of the Warg. The Elves were surprised to see the Wargs, probably believing that they had all been killed or seduced by evil. Yet the Wargs had survived, and now they would save the Elves. They brought them over the Sea and into the West, and while doing so they counselled the Valar and suggested that Middle-earth needed salvation.

What happened next is a tale in itself (though admittedly nowhere near the epic standard of the War of Wrath). The symbolic significance of the Party in Khand however, carries a strong message of defiance and rejection in the face of despair.

Diamond18

06-18-2004, 12:01 PM

My, my. That is by far the uncanniest tale I've yet come across, Eomer. Not the least because I had no idea the Flaming Lips and Yeah Yeah Yeahs have been around that long. It just goes to show what varied knowledge can be gained from speaking of Wargs. I salute Elrond's wise handling of such a dire situation. After all, you have to fight for your right to party.

As far as Wargish immortality having already been discussed, I'm crushed to realize that my memory is that bad, as I did endeavor to read all posts. Well, since no definite conclusion has yet been reached, perhaps I will take some time to do some deep, scholarly research into the subject and get back to you with my findings. I will probably need expensive liquor to aid in my studies, but no price is too high to pay to learn more about the great and glorious Warg.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

06-19-2004, 03:26 PM

Indeed, Diamond, some of the best times you will ever have in your life centre around Wargs and alcohol. In fact, when the two are combined hectic results ensue. I will never forget my 12-day stint in the Warg section of the Brussels library with only 4 large bottles of 1854 French Brandy for company. Strange times!

With regards to how our modern-day pop stars and entertainers found themselves in Khand, I am not obliged to explain that situation. ;)

High King Fingolfin

06-21-2004, 03:00 PM

Recently a Warg passed within ten feet of me! I was in my own backyard, sitting on the grass and reading, when I heard a rustling of leaves. I saw what I believe to be the same black winged Warg I saw before, and another one, which I believe to be its mate. They had landed on branches in a tree in my backyard, and the branches were quite strained to hold the weight of the massive beasts. I bowed in awe and terror, the Wargs let out a soft growl and departed. I believe this means these Wargs are living in my own neigborhood! This pair could be the only one around, which is likekly, or they could be part of a larger group in my area. I will keep a lookout for this pair and others. I will attempt to look more deeply into Warg lore to see how common it is to find black, winged, pairs.
Welcome, Squatter, Arwen, and Diamond! We are always happy when another joins us to share their knowledge or tales of the Warg.

Saraphim

06-21-2004, 05:07 PM

I feel I should begin to take part in this discussion, since I believe that I am an actual owner of a Warg, disguised as a congenial-looking mutt.

My Warg shows an intolerable dislike for travelers who trespass on my lands. If not for a strong chain, many a solicitor would have shed blood on the concrete of my front square. Even so, the average person will attempt to convince me of thier wares from as far away as across the lane.

In regards to the posts before me, I must confess to never seeing wings appear on my Warg, but you can rest assured I will keep a sharp eye out.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

06-22-2004, 08:23 AM

Most fascinating Fingolfin. It must indeed have been a mighty tree which supported the weight of two great Wargs. Perhaps you should investigate your neighbourhood further in order to see these Wargs again. But be careful, remember. Wargs are highly dangerous, if magnificent, creatures.

I remember a particular occasion in my early life which suggested the full terror of Wargs. Once as a child I witnessed a Warg track down and commit a single elderly woman to death. Employing the acid, barbs, tact and strychnine granted to it by a truly cruel God, it had gutted, dissected and pickled the woman within minutes. The pieces were swiftly jarred and sold to the Russians and the Warg proudly attached the woman's eyes to its secondary mandibles in an effort to increase his standing in Heaven and Hell. Some Wargs cannot comprehend their power as they have no minds, this is as a consequence of one of the first Wargs in the world dabbling in necro-science and attempting to interfere in the affairs of the angels. Robbed of any real sentience, these Wargs can feel only the pain and upset of others and are driven by this.

Saraphim, so nice of you to join us here at the Appreciation Thread! It is very interesting to hear of a domesticated Warg. I knew that such Wargs were in existence but rarely have I been confronted with one. It is, of course, worth remembering that the Warg is far more powerful than your family may realise. If you wake up one morning to find your home the victim of an unexplained rampage, do not be surprised. Wargs can be temperamental creatures. Perhaps this has already happened to you?

High King Fingolfin

06-25-2004, 03:15 PM

I saw them again! Not only did I once again sight the two Wargs I saw before, I saw two others! They were not so close to me this time. They flew around in the sky above me before landing in the tree in my neighbor's yard. There were the two that I saw before, one, the first one I ever saw, was black, with eyes of the same color, and a grey marking, shaped like a many-pointed star on its forehead. Its mate was also black, with no markings and green eyes. The other two Wargs were dark grey, both with brown eyes, the first with a brown patch around its right eye, the second with a black marking shaped sort of like a sword blade pointing to the right on its forehead. They stayed in the tree for about ten minutes, but I don't think they noticed me. Eventually they flew away in the direction of a large local park with woods and a prairie. I believe this is where this group lives. The group could be could actually be quite large!

Saraphim, welcome to our community of Warg lovers! Careful with that Warg you have, it strikes me as strange that a Warg would disguise itself as a common dog. It could be a dangerous renegade.

Saraphim

06-25-2004, 03:38 PM

My warg is currently only two meters away, sleeping soundly.

This may well be a facade, since a moment ago I caught her on the kitchen table drinking my coffee.

Indeed, Eomer. Often my kinsfolk and I will wake to the little warg chewing on things: clothes, footwear, furniture, carpet, cats, books. My copy of The Lays of Beleriand will never be the same.

I fear this may be only a hint of things to come, however, and I hope to be out of the house when the caffiene kicks in.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

06-26-2004, 11:47 AM

Strange happenings and strange experiences for some of our friends. I am both saddened but yet relieved that I have not had close personal contact with a Warg. My three experiences of seeing a Warg have never once involved direct contact betwixt Warg and myself.

I'm trying to work on a tale regarding the Rhun Hills. Now, I'm sure we are all aware of the legends surrounding the ancient power of the Rhun Hills. Yet almost no-one recognises that it concerns Wargs very closely. It is a tale of violence, bloodshed and magic. I have no idea when it will be ready for postage. Also my study is still in a mess after the incident with the Spider Monkey, so this can only delay my work.

Fingolfin, I fear for your safety if you investigate these Winged Wargs further. If, as you suspect, there is a large group of them then they could cause frightful carnage in your area. It is a tricky situation no doubt, because why on earth would you want to hesitate to further experience Wargs? A double-edged sword of a situation I fear.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

06-30-2004, 05:51 AM

It has been several days since Fingolfin has posted on the thread. I fear he went searching for the Winged Wargs and suffered the consequences. Say it ain't so! :eek:

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-01-2004, 06:07 AM

There are few place-names in Middle-earth which chill the blood, but to those in the know, the Rhun Hills are of especial mystery. This fear has passed into legend, and most folk, whether Hobbits of the Shire or Men of Gondor, do not know the truth about the Hills. All they know is that it is a place to dread. Of those few who know the truth, Elrond of Rivendell is one who has ventured to tell the tale.

He told me that there was once a tribe of Wargs who lived in the Rhun Hills, back in the day when Men could walk freely in those lands. These were noble majestic Wargs, probably around twenty of them, and they made alliance with the Rulers of Gondor. Gondor was at that time plotting an assault upon Mordor and valued the help of the Wargs. Little did the Wargs know that they were about to be used as pawns in the great game of War.

The Wargs were stationed on the outskirts of Mordor, ready to attack the forces of Sauron who were massed. They thought that the Men were in hiding nearby and waited upon the signal, which was to be a beacon away in the West. They saw the beacon light up and jumped out of their place of hiding, only to be met with the grim realisation that the Men had abandoned them; they were nowhere to be seen. A group of around fourteen Wargs were about to be assailed by Sauron's huge army.

The Wargs put up an amazing fight, but it could not last. Orc upon Orc fell before the fury of the Wargs but there were too many, swarming around the Wargs like ants. And there were Balrogs and Evil Ents, who could not be contained, and one by one, the Wargs fell, destroyed.

The King of Gondor had planned this. He had hit two birds with one stone, so to speak. The Wargs had put a sizeable dent in Sauron's army. Hundreds and hundreds of Orcs had been eliminated. Sauron's army was not huge so he was unable to attack Gondor for many years after this. Also, Gondor was all set to take the Rhun Hills, and the treasures which apparently lay within.

They made their expedition about a month after the slaughter of the Wargs. A large representation of Gondor's might went to take the Hills. They travelled through the fair, yet strange, country becoming more anxious as they went on, for the sights were unusual in the Rhun Hills. They heard or saw no Wargs, a deathly silence was everywhere. Until they came to a great river which ran through the Hills. The Men were drawn to it, and they saw an awful thing; the river flowed with blood. In that hour, a thick mist swept over the Hills. The Men, all twelve thousand of them, were never seen again.

*as told by an unnamed Elf from Rivendell*

-point- *Elrond discovered this from the birds of the area*

High King Fingolfin

07-06-2004, 11:40 AM

Don't worry Eomer! After a fruitless search for the winged Wargs I had a lot of distractions which I will not discuss, which made me unable to post.

Your story of the Rhun Hills was quite electrifying! The Wargs' spirits probably used their magic against the Men of Gondor. They undoubtedly met a horrible death.

SamwiseGamgee

07-06-2004, 12:11 PM

Well, I'm back.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-09-2004, 05:10 AM

Fingolfin, it is good to see my fears were in vain. At the same time though it is disappointing for you that you couldn't meet the Winged Wargs. Ah well, I'm sure the time will come, someday.

Samwise, a quite ridiculous post as I am fully aware that you are, in fact, away again. You could never resist the use of random Gamgee quotes could you? :)

One of the Nine

07-09-2004, 09:41 AM

Ok, I have just one question. In the Hobbit, the Wargs seem to have their own language when they are surrounding the tree that the Dwarves and Hobbit and Wizard are in, and are talking in it. Why do they look like dumb killing machines in the movie? and why isn't there a mention of their alleged smarts in LotR?

One of the Nine

07-09-2004, 09:43 AM

As for winged wargs, why not? That'd be a cool ride for a warg rider. :D

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-10-2004, 11:53 AM

One of the Nine, so nice of you to join us here at the Appreciation Thread. :)

Regarding languages, it is widely believed that Wargs spoke many languages, due to their immense capacity for learning.

Regarding the movie-Wargs, they were the single biggest mistake and act of disrespect in the entire trilogy. Compared to the movie-Wargs, movie-Pelennor fields was majestic. :rolleyes: There was actually a website which is now closed (unfortunately) which listed everything wrong with the movie-Wargs. I believe the final count was in between 650-660.

Osse

07-10-2004, 10:21 PM

<Walks up late to the conversation, carrying a poor, sick, bloodied Warg in his arms...>

Sorry I am late oh Lord Eomer! I recieved notice of this thread and immediately ran to be by your side, however, I was waylaid upon the road! A rather foolish old man thought it would be funny to throw pinecones at Phillipo here and myself as we rode unaware under a pine tree...

After a brief halt to lick our wounds, we continued valiantly on to this great warg-moot!

Alas! For once again we were attacked as we journeyed southwards... cruel, tall men, looking somewhat like yourself hacked at us! It was only through the cunning and strength of Phillipo here that we were able to fight our way through to you.

I Osse, lord of storms, pledge to thee!

Mithalwen

07-11-2004, 12:18 PM

Erm is there a vet (possibly one whose youth was marred by Lycanthropy and therefore has chosen this unusual specialism) in the house? And is there a sanctuary for elderly and maimed wargs somewhere in ME? Like the home for dragons in Ankh Morpork?

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-11-2004, 01:32 PM

Hail and well met Osse and Mithalwen! So wonderful to have more subscribers to the Appreciation Thread.

Osse, your tale startles me, yet as I consider the long and unhappy history betwixt Wargs and Men, it merely follows a familiar pattern. Suffice to say, Phillipo is not the first Warg to be attacked by humans, and you are not the first person to be attacked by other Men for supporting a Warg. It is such a cruel world in which we live. Yet, all is not lost. I am honoured to recieve your pledge, and I only urge you to appreciate Wargs such as we here do. :)

Mithalwen, you touch upon a subject not yet discussed at the Thread. What of the aged Wargs? In which ways do they weaken with the years? As for maimed Wargs, I am of the belief that Wargs have amazing regenerative powers of healing and thus do not remain maimed for long. Is there a Man left alive who is skilled enough to treat a Warg? I don't know.

One of the Nine

07-12-2004, 06:21 PM

One of the Nine, so nice of you to join us here at the Appreciation Thread. :)

Regarding languages, it is widely believed that Wargs spoke many languages, due to their immense capacity for learning.

Hmm... that leaves some open thought for me. Thanks!

Regarding the movie-Wargs, they were the single biggest mistake and act of disrespect in the entire trilogy. Compared to the movie-Wargs, movie-Pelennor fields was majestic. :rolleyes: There was actually a website which is now closed (unfortunately) which listed everything wrong with the movie-Wargs. I believe the final count was in between 650-660.

Yeah, they definately got a lot wrong about wargs, not to mention the whole movie! :rolleyes:

Kransha

07-12-2004, 07:12 PM

O, Eomer of the Mighty Thread (and hair)! Alas, alack, too long has it been since I have driven my forceful hand into the beauteous mess that is this most noble of threads. But, anon I come again! With tales and tells, with lous and lays, to reminisce of the grand circumstance of wargdom!

Here, my friends, are some Fun!Facts! of Warg History.

- During the Third Age of Middle Earth, while Sauron kept himself in Mordor to muster his forces, an Warg League Baseball team, the "Gorgoroth Berserkers", embarked on a winning streak that has never been matched since in the annals of Middle Earth competitive inter-species sporting, defeating such favorites as the Osgiliath Sentries, the Lorien Rangers, the Rivendell Titans, the Harad Mumakil, and the Edoras Riders to finish both the 1348 and 1349 seasons undefeated, with a cumulative record of 263-0-3.

- It is said that when Luthien Tinuviel died, the whole world went into morning. This is true even for the Wargs -- over 6,000 Wargs held lit candles and arranged themselves at the Morannon to spell out the message "WE MIS U LUTHEN", which was said to have been visible by Eru himself. A Warg songwriter by the name of "Grrrrrrargh" composed a ballad to Luthien that was so haunting, it is still in use today as a drinking song in the halls of Rivendell.

- Many know the tale of Beren and Luthien, but few know that Beren's cousin Earl married an Warg-maiden named Snrlaa. Earl and Srnlaa moved to a suburb of Minas Tirith after their marriage and raised five children, living in married bliss for over 50 years.

- Until the unfortunate incident involving a hobbit and great Elf warrior, the tower of Cirith Ungol was a shelter for abused and neglected Gondorian wives seeking shelter from their husbands, as well as Faramirs and Boromirs seeking shelter from Abuser!Denethors. Ruffff, Warg-steed of Gorbag, who operated the Cirith Ungol shelter out of his own personal funds, said that the work was the "The most rewardin' work me and me lads could eva dream a' havin." (Translated 'loosely' from Wargspeak).

- There is a Warg living six miles south of Mount Doom, named Grufflesmuk, who can cross one eye independently of the other, and can point his eyes off in separate directions. It's really freaky, you totally need to see it. (Ref: John Ronald Ruel Tolkien, Forgotten/Lost/Misplaced/Ignored/Silly Letter #987.2, February 29, 1952)

- Though Saruman took the credit, the Warg named Ruglnkurf attempted to patent a method that he had invented of reducing emissions and increasing efficiency in Saruman's pits of industry. Though Ruglnkurf was never officially credited, his methods are still in use today at most modern steel mills and foundries.

- At the end of the Seocnd Age, as the Last Alliance fought against the host of Sauron, one group of Wargs, after convincing their riders to accompany them, attempted to make peace with the Elves besieging them. As Isildur sliced the ring from Sauron's finger, a few scant miles away Warg, Orc, and Elf alike were merrily drinking and carousing, playing games and leering indecently at Elf- and Warg-maiden alike. After the war, the Wargs who desired peace attempted to live in Rivendell, but found that the job market couldn't support such immigration and that rent was too high.

- The record for "Most Foes Slain In A Single Battle" is held by an Warg named Mishwak, in the Four-Hundred And Ninth Battle of the Westfold, with 212 opponents to fall before his sword. Both the Mouth of Sauron and a representative of the Steward of Gondor were on hand to award Mishwak with a plaque recognizing his efforts and the severed head of the record-breaking 197th kill, bronzed, which he almost devoured at the after-party reception. Commented Mishwak, "This, this right here -- this is proof that no matter where you come from, anyone has what it takes to be the best. This is for all the Wargs watching at home who thought they could never amount to anything!"

- Uthmrfff, in addition to being a skilled commander of the Warg Legions in the Siege of Minas Tirith, was also a pioneer in the fields of radioactive chemistry and X-ray research. Tragically, it was only due to Uthmrfff's studies of radioactivity that we now know of its dangers, and Uthmrfff himself was so afflicted by the radiation from all the samples he had handled that he contracted numerous cancerous tumors all over his body, the largest one - on the top side of his head - estimated to weigh over 15 pounds. He said that he would not elect to have it removed, to serve as a reminder to all of the unquenchable Warg spirit and thirst for knowledge.

Nirvana II

07-12-2004, 07:27 PM

Are wargs just really big Wolves?

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-13-2004, 07:48 AM

Nirvana II, so nice of you to come here to the Appreciation Thread to discover more about Wargs. Albeit, you have some reading to catch up on! Wargs and Wolves are like stones and Elves (a Wargish version of our phrase "Chalk and Cheese"). Though their bodies are usually similar in proportion, Wargs are far larger in size. The average Warg is also around 670 times mightier than the average Wolf. Blessed with a divine wit and marvellous conversational skills, Wargs are also far more pleasant to be around (when they are friendly).

Kransha, truly wonderful to have you return to us! :) My, my, those outlandish facts were a delight to discover (not to mention hilarious) and they will no doubt be shared in many a pub throughout the lands tonight, and indeed any other night.

My particular favourite was the revelation that Wargs and Elves and Orcs indulged in alcohol and merrymaking during the Last Alliance. It is an oft overlooked attribute of Wargs that they are extremely roguish and thoroughly enjoy the more *ahem* salacious aspects of life.

This is the main reason why the prudish 'Gondorian Families United' marched in protest of Wargs in the year 458 of the Fourth Age, demanding the imprisonment of all Wargs of 'low moral standards'. Needless to say, the protest group were duly devoured by the unimpressed Wargs of Anfalas.

Nirvana II

07-13-2004, 09:07 AM

but..wargs...are evil most of the time right?

One of the Nine

07-13-2004, 09:25 AM

Ok, I have learned a LOT about how you people veiw wargs, but I still think Tolkien wanted them to look dumb in LotR, because nowhere does it say that they have their own language/languages, and nowhere does it say that they have any wit at all! Yet, in the Hobbit, they talk and obviously that does take some wit. It's like their demeaned in LotR.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-13-2004, 05:28 PM

Nirvana II, Wargs are, in fact, highly susceptible to persuasion by the powers of evil. A common trait of the mighty, unfortunately. :(

One of the Nine, The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings were translations of manuscripts written by Hobbits. Hobbits actually knew very little about Wargs, thus you cannot take their word for it.

One of the Nine

07-14-2004, 11:50 AM

One of the Nine, The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings were translations of manuscripts written by Hobbits. Hobbits actually knew very little about Wargs, thus you cannot take their word for it.

Well, looking back at the book, I can see where you're right. If the book were written by the Wargs point of view, I think it would be so different, it would almost be another book. :eek: Although it would be rather facinating to see the Wargs point of view... *goes off and attempts to start writing, and then comes back to the computer and gives up* :rolleyes:

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-14-2004, 05:36 PM

You learn quickly One of the Nine that Wargs should be (in a perfect world) the very pinnacle of human fascination.

Although I have a feeling that few True Wargs took part in the War of the Ring, and that it was only the Wargs who had turned to Evil who fought. :(

Diamond18

07-14-2004, 06:17 PM

Mithalwen, you touch upon a subject not yet discussed at the Thread. What of the aged Wargs? In which ways do they weaken with the years?

Funny you should ask. In my ongoing quest to answer the question, "Are Wargs Immortal?" I have recently been traveling the world over, searching dark alleyways, old libraries, rock concerts, and fishing festivals, for clues to the natural life span of the Warg.

Due to the Warg's often dangerous and sometimes evil lifestyles, many die in ferocious battles before getting a chance to live to a Ripe Old Age. And most of the old tales focus on such Wargs; the deviants, the adventurers, the war-lords, and the tragic heros. Therefore, it is quite difficult to read up on the ones who go quietly in their sleep (if they indeed die without the help of blade or tooth or TNT). But I endeavored to do so, and here are my findings:

1.

In modern days, Wargs are extremely rarely seen. This fact has been established by many of our resident Warg Enthusiasts. I have discovered that the reason for this dwindling of such a magnificent species is none other than that they have lost the Warg-Wives.

Yes. I was in Mongolia at the time I learned this, rooting through an archeological dig in a cave once believed to be inhabited by Mongolian Warg-Rats (a derisive term for the local Wargs, who are considerably smaller than your average Warg. However they are just as, if not moreso, ferocious than other Wargs. So I would not call them that to their faces.) I found an ancient document which I spent many days translating from the Ancient Wargish. I have the first stanza done, and it goes thusly:

Where have all the Warg-Wives gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the Warg-Wives gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the Warg-Wives gone?
Damned if I know. Anyone?
When will we ever learn?
When will we ever learn?

Needless to say, I was tickled pink to have come across one of the only known documents of Angsty Warg Poetry. But before I go off making broad, definitive statements about the status of Warg-Wives, I should point out that it is unclear whether or not this was a widespread occurance. This may simply have been an event particular to the Wargs of the Mongolian plains, or the pack which lived in that one cave, or maybe the Warg who wrote the poem had been married lots of times. It is hard to say. I just know that the poor fellow was depressed, because some other documents found nearby contained such heartfelt laments as I Can't Get No Red Meat 'r Nuthin', I Howl When the Moon Isn't Even Full and I Wanna Be Domesticated.

Frightening to see a Warg fall so low. But I hear those Mongolian winters are nasty.

In summation of Point 1, the reason you have had such trouble sighting Wargs may be simply because they have little in common with rabbits, these days.

2.

If we speculate that the Wargs haven't got no satisfaction for a really long time, we would then have to formulate an explanation for why there are any left at all. Ruling out reproduction leaves only one obvious answer: Long or Infinite Life Spans. But which is it?

3.

After my Mongolian Adventure, I took my private jet to the Canary Islands in pursuit of a rumor that told of a Wargish Retirement home, where old Wargs sit on the front porch under afgans and reminisce about the Good Ol' Days. This would surely be conclusive evidence that Wargs age naturally (and therefore die naturally) so it was with great anticipation that I advanced upon the Islands. However, when I got there I found that it had all been a hoax and I ended up on the front page of the Canary Singer as their "Cuckoo of the Month". Needless to say, this ruffled my feathers.

4.

Regrouping, I went to Hawai'i and drank wine coolers with a Swedish Surfer Dude name Sven.

Er.

Actually, I went to Hawai'i with the express purpose of looking up Kakua Wakaka, the leading Polynesian Warg Enthusiast. I had heard from a sympathetic Canarian that K.W. houses a modest yet enthusiastic collection of little known Warg Tales, and I figured that even if that information proved futile I would at least be in Hawai'i!

As it turned out, however, K.W. and his Warg Library do exist. He graciously allowed me to pour over his documents, wine cooler in hand, and there I discovered the Single Most Fascinating Fact about Wargs that has, I believe, been shared on this thread to date!!!!!

It is a tale called Encyclopedia Brown and the Origin of Wargs and I will share it just as soon as I finish transcribing it from the ancient Polynesian Wargish.

Kransha

07-14-2004, 06:32 PM

I hope no one mind if I randomly interlope again but, as the Poet Laureate of these forums (proclaimed by some, not all) I felt it my duty to compose a ballad to rival those of my mighty mentor and yours, something of a Warg. So, I conclude that the tale of Beren and Luthien, a stirring story indeed, was in fact gleaned from another tale, one involving a wise Warg of Morannon. So, without further ado.

The Lay of Rärmfurmf of Morannon & Mithwen of Lothlorien

A Warg there lived at Morannon who lay each day upon the rocks
Reclining most resplendantly, considering each paradox.
Of nature and philosophy considered he each postulate,
His jaws a-snapping, tongue a-lapping, and his head would occilate.

Tremendous was his knowledge, an unending cornucopia.
He read each volume, great and small, despite his slight myopia.
Consulted he the books of yore, from Orodruin to Barad-dur.
Of things bizarre from lands afar, including the rare Harad Stoor.

Upon his head, 'neath beady eyes, some spectacles were neatly perched
As sat he on the jagged earth, as sun and moon above him lurched.
Immobile, without motion for a century he held that spot.
Despite the cold, the blist'ry wind, the eerie nights and sunlight hot.

Scorched he was, and frozen too, for never would he move an inch.
Regardless of his brother's taunts and all the foulest orcish stench.
Just at his side, piled skyward high, a stack of every book he'd skimmed.
And on his face, marks of that stood, a drooping nose and eyes red-rimmed.

At last, one day, a saturday, the twentieth of December.
His brethren sought him out and said, "You're but a dying ember!"
"If you stay here yet one more year you'll be naught but a pile of bones,"
"With no sound left to comfort you save all your cousins saddened moans."

Suddenly then, he looked at them, and shifted from his stool.
"You're right," he said, "I'll soon be dead. I'm nothing but a fool."
"I've lingered here so long, so long, I've read so much!" He bleated.
And with peep, that Warg did weep, and to his cave retreated.

The next day came, both bright and lame, and his unhappy kin.
They rapped concernedly upon the door of his tepee, and he swiftly let them in.
"How have you been," they said to him, "since from your perch you ran?"
He answered not, they said "Fear not! We have a cunning plan."

"You've got a lot of smarts, that's true, but we've a good position"
"For you to fill, you lucky Bill, it's a good proposition."
"The army's the thing, to put step in your swing, and your shame shall be lifted."
"You dashing pup, we've signed you up! Good lad, you've been conscripted!"

The warg was most confused at but nodded through the speech duration.
When they were finally complete, they dragged him to the nearest station.
“This bonnie lad,” said that Warg’s dad, “he wants to be enlisted.”
“I’m not quite sure,” the bookwarg said, but all his kin insisted.

So in the army he was now, a military fellow
Whose breast did blaze with medals raised, his belly never yellow.
But that Warg was not all content, he moped and sobbed and moaned
For he still mist his learning and the lit’rature he’d owned.

But, as time passed, his fervor grew, and marched he each new day.
Whene’er a fight reared up its head, he soon would join the fray.
And with a smile upon his lips, a grin upon his muzzle,
He’d bravely fight, and then, that night, much Warg-draught would he guzzle.

And then, one cold and stormy night, the Warg-troops, in disguise,
Did happen on a band of Elves, and, taken by surprise,
Were captured by the troop of folk who knew not who they were.
The wargs did mope and had no hope that they’d not lose their fur.

One elf, though, took pity on them, and spoke then to her kin.
“It would be a most horrible thing,” she said, “a veritable sin”
“To slay or hurt these innocent beasts, they know not what their fault.”
“So now I say, send them on their way,” and the company did halt.

This maid was light that lit the night, a woman pure and fair.
Her eyes were blue as ocean pools and sunlight filled her hair.
She wore garb neat, from head to feet, which glowed a radiant blue.
She was so perfect; it was thought she must’ve been Ainu.

Heeding the word of the Elven maid, most beautiful and regal,
They freed the Wargs in captivity, and gave them draught illegal.
The Wargs departed, fleeing quick, back to Morannon.
But told they were to go back in force, their masters said “Anon!”

So, angered in verve, but ready to serve, the Warg-troop hurried back,
And found the elves who’d captured them asleep on that same track.
There was a battle, very brief, which ended without blood.
But plenty of mess, I must confess, as they rolled in the mud.

The Wargs, they say, then took the day and all the Elves were taken.
They were thrown down, and there were bound, and thought themelves forsaken.
But, he who this song talks about looked down on them with pity.
He felt for them in this dark place, so terrible and gritty.

The prisoner elves were taken off to the great Dark Lord’s hideout.
He was so pleased, he burned his knees. His messenger did ride out
And greeted he the victory-ous army coming hither.
With long tirades and some parades, he halted all the dither.

Before Sauron the elves were thrown. He jeered for quite a time.
And then he said, “Ye should be dead, you filthy Elvish slime!”
“Warg guards, most honored by my hand, I have a great solution.”
“Take every elf to the weapon shelf, and prep for execution.”

Suddenly, through our Hero-Warg, a pang of pity shot.
From all these elves, a day ago, more pity had he got.
Without a thought, for good or naught, he stepped before the Eye.
He said with grace and a brave face, “I shall not let them die!”

“They spared my life, and many more, they are good folk and kind.”
“And I feel that I must help them when they are in a bind.”
“So Lord so Dark, please hear me, Hark! Accept my humble plea.”
“If you have heart, release their part, and give the elves to me.”

Though the Dark Lord was by this soured, the plea had touched his soul.
He was no heartless wretch or fiend, no rat or mouse or mole.
His eye was great, but in that state, his heart he could not see it.
So with a sigh, and a blink of his eye, he rose and said, “So be it!”

The Elven maid who our Hero saved was unbound and arose.
She sprinted to our Wargy friend and, in most flashy prose
Outpoured her thanks to him, her friend, but ended that with this.
Upon his wet and dirty snout, she planted a small kiss.

Without warning he got the thing, and, though he hadn’t earned it.
He turned to her with bristling fur, and readily returned it!
And set they were, with gold and myrrh, to be a bride and groom.
Without delay, the very next day, they married ‘neath Mount Doom.

They lived in happiness extreme for many merry years
Inhaling grog and rum and ale and several orcish beers.
On Gorgoroth, in a shack they lived, with their bouncy boy baby
Until one day, as the storytellers say, their cousins came for tea.

They asked him then, “So, laddy Ben, are you really happy, son?”
“With all your mad adventuring are you really truly done?”
“What of you’re learning, all your books, what of your myths and lore?”
“Has all that been forgotten now and do you want no more?”

He looked at them most happily and straightaway did say.
“The greatest piece of knowledge known I learned upon that day.”
“For all my reading, all my trips, it surely was to end.”
“Because I needed but one thing, and that thing was a friend.”

Diamond18

07-14-2004, 11:14 PM

I think that was possibly the most disturbing post I have ever read on this thread. I guess Mithwen of Lothlorien wins the prize for being the most enthusiastic Warg enthusiast ever. :p

Mithalwen

07-15-2004, 12:25 PM

I would just like to clarify that Mithwen of Lothlorien is absolutely no relation ..... and, Diamond, as to where have all the Warg-wives gone? - The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind.... :D

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-15-2004, 12:44 PM

Pardon my lack of anything interesting to say, but I have been left near-speechless by Kransha's poem.

More! More! :D You are the Poet Laureate of the world!

Please Diamond, though Mithalwen seems to know where to find this fact you speak of, I do not! Share as soon as you can, friend!

High King Fingolfin

07-15-2004, 03:03 PM

I have been thinking. Our community here has grown so large that mayhaps we could have our own forum! The Proboards forums are nice and they are also free. I'm not sure how you get one but I could look into it.

I still have not found the Wargs! After days of searcing I have only found one thing: A single Warg footprint.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-15-2004, 04:49 PM

A nice idea Fingolfin, but I don't think it would work. It would be typical if, once we set up the forum, everyone started ignoring it! Plus, we're doing very well here and we all have a strong bond with barrowdowns.com. Word gets around anyway. I'm sure that, before long, all the Warg enthusiasts will have descended upon us here. :)

You saw a Warg footprint eh? They are massive aren't they!? Everyone knows that Wargs are large, but you still get a shock when you actually see their size. I once stumbled upon what I believed was a Warg tail! It must have been cut off in a tumultuous battle with another Warg (for surely no other creature could cause such harm to a Warg). 6 feet long it was, amazing...

One of the Nine

07-15-2004, 07:04 PM

Cool, our own forum! That'd be nice. Yes, I have been searching for the ever elusive wargs, but there has been nothing so far. I live in the city. Perhaps they don't like the husle and busle of our every day lives here.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-16-2004, 10:23 AM

There is no doubt in my mind that Wargs despise the city, and steer clear of cities at all times.

One of the Nine

07-16-2004, 01:39 PM

Hmm.... what about corn feilds? they surround the city, and are much more rural. Hmm. I could try that. After the stupid storm lets up, I shall search the cornfields for the ever illusive wargs. :D

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-16-2004, 03:47 PM

Absolutely One of the Nine, you should look wherever you can. Woods, fields, mountains, deserts, anywhere except the places where humans are frequent.

There is a long and unhappy history between humans and Wargs which we have merely touched upon on this thread.

SamwiseGamgee

07-16-2004, 05:22 PM

Here follows the legend of Aldreus, the first ever man, and the severing of the bond between man and warg:

In the days when the elven-folk came back east and settled in their many abodes having followed Feanor and then having lost faith in him there was born of the earth a man, and he was called Aldreus. Mighty he was, as though carven from granite, and yet his face was the fairest ere eye hath seen on mortal man. He was born a babe from a deep crevice, and on hearing his faint, whimpering child cry there came a warg upon him. That warg's name was not known, but that warg raised the child Aldreus like her own offspring. He was a brother to her litter and a son to bioth her and her husband. For many long years they lived happily together, until Aldreus met another human.

Though Aldreus was the first human, he was not the only, and the maiden he laid his eyes upon was the most beautiful thing he had seen. Bellathia he called her, for she was as glorious as the sun rising.

Aldreus's mother did not want it, though, and she forbade that her son follow the maiden into the woods, for she feared her son would not return. Aldreus knew a rage that burned his eyes, such was its intensity and as his mother slept that night he killed her, slitting that fair and caring mother's throat. As his brothers and sisters woke Aldreus panicked, slaying each one of them. Now his cold blooded rage had consumed him, and as the rain began he ran into the forest, seeking Bellathia. He searched this way and that, but in the pouring rain he became lost, and as the forest closed in around him Aldreus did not notice his father's mighty paw sweep down on the back of his head. So devoured with the pain of searing loss was that warg that he did not kill Aldreus immediately, he bound him and hung him by his feet from a branch some 50ft in the air.

Each day the warg visited until finally Aldreus died, and as he did so he cursed all wargs, but after his passing the warg who had killed him prayed to Eru that with this one act there may come a peace between warg and man. His prayer is yet unanswered.

One of the Nine

07-16-2004, 05:53 PM

I have found one! His name he will not tell me, but our bond is growing stronger. He is lonely, and has had no rider since the cruel people of the city deemed him a witch and burned him at the stake. I first found his tracks near the edge of the particular cornfield I was searching in, and immediatly took to the trial. I found him later, laying in the sun. So as not to startle him, I let him be until he woke up. He then snarled and bared his teeth until I soothed him, saying that I was a friend. He then began to talk to me. He told me about the many customs of the Wargs and then some that he had started himself. He then told me about his long deseased rider, and then asked me if I would be his new one. We now take rides throught the cornfields, grassy fields, and the occasional mountain. We are having good times, and he says that I am light to his back and an easy rider. How are the rest of you faring in your Warg meetings?

SamwiseGamgee

07-17-2004, 10:39 AM

Beware, One Of The Nine, wargs should not be treated lightly. You must always treat the noble beast as is becoming of a creature with such regality. To be permitted to ride upon the back of such a fine creature is an honour I have yet to earn, and for many years have I studied the way of the warg.

I feel I owe you all an explanation not for my first absence but for my most recent notable. This was because I was unexpectedly called away to the town of Eastbourne in Sussex. There had been reported cases of a large warg terrorising the beachy head region of Sussex. I spent nine nights camped out below those cliffs, hoping to find some evidence and confront this beast. I was sadly unsuccesful in this task and had no option but to return home empty handed.

How are we all at the warg appreciation thread? I am glad to see so many new names having posted. Welcome to you all!

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-17-2004, 11:18 AM

It doesn't surprise me that you found no Warg there Samwise, it sounds like a case of typical human lies, pinning the blame on Wargs for their own misgivings. Your story was apt and fascinating.

So nice to have you back though! :) You have noticed the vast number of new subscribers to the Thread, I see. Wonderful isn't it? There is hope for humans after all.

One of the Nine, I'm sure you can appreciate how unusual your situation is. Samwise spoke truthfully, caution is yet necessary in your dealings with this Warg. I hope you play this game cleverly. Nevertheless, good luck to you! and keep your stories coming.

One of the Nine

07-17-2004, 12:09 PM

Yes, cation is a virtue I don't like too much, but must be applied here. I have met my dear Warg again near his home, and he tells me much about his past rider. We together also must be careful because of the ever accusing people of the devious city I am shamed to call my own. Just this morning they accused a poor elderly woman of being in contact with a warg, when in fact, she had only scared one off with her many dogs. They take warg appreciation as treason, knowing a warg worse than treason, and riding a warg like terrorism. So, caution is good in my case here. Although, on a brighter outlook, I am learing some famed warg dances, and his wargliness says that he might be able to bring the warg that lives near a city not to far away here. So, for now, I'm happy with my warg findings.

SamwiseGamgee

07-17-2004, 05:39 PM

Of recent times on this thread I feel that the great power of wargs has been forgotten. A warg is a creature more noble and honourable than we could ever trully appreciate. Here at the appreciation society we do the best we can to reflect and, well, generally appreciate wargs. However, another word of caution One of the Nine, this warg with which you claim to meet may be a treacherous warg. The haste with which he has befriended you suggests to me that he is tricking you. A warg of nobler spirit would be far more suspicious and less forthcoming, I feel.

I am no expert in warg psychology, though a vast amount of my time in Cambodia during the summer of 1981 was spent researching the field. I feel this is a case of 'Rohan Village Syndrome', that is where a warg befriends you and treats you as an ally only to betray you to a greater power at an opportune moment. Eomer has touched on it before, I believe. The best authority I have for this is in Unravelling The Paradox: A Study In Warg Psychology by Viscount Hughbert Bramble-Heath of Kent, Oxford University Press, 1834:
Wargs are prone to acts of dispicable treachery. It is unclear as to why they should act in such a fashion... but one thing seems clear: the trick is commonly used against unsuspecting humans and often even against warg-followers.
It was first observed in use against a village in Rohan as a servant of the Warg Rider... betrayed the trust of an entire village save one elderly lady for the purposes of his master.
As a result of this common trait wargs should always be held in some suspicion if their friendship is forthcoming.

There are other authorities, such as Wargs; Lovers, Murderers or Gods? by Albert Erekshon, Collins, 1946, which states quite simply:Wargs should not be trusted. This is a cynical view and I for one do not agree, but the sentiment would be well learned.

Eomer, I would be interested in your opinions on the matter.

Sharkû

07-17-2004, 06:09 PM

Except for the word wargs, that was complete gibberish. Tolkien or closed, please.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-18-2004, 04:37 PM

Seriously, we at the Appreciation Thread know all too well that Tolkien wrote little of Wargs and the Warg Rider. That is why we take it upon ourselves to keep the ball in motion, so to speak.

Fordim Hedgethistle

07-18-2004, 10:19 PM

Greetings Eomer and all Warg Lovers. This is Fordim, first time poster, long time listener to this thread.

While I do genuinely admire your determination to win for the mighty warg a more honourable place within the legendarium, I am afraid that I must nail the wolf skin to the door on this debate by turning to that source of all human knowledge (in English at least) – the Oxford English Dictionary.

‘Warg’ is simply an archaic word for wolf. So far, so good (if you’re a warg or a warg fan). But when we get into the etymology of the word we find that ‘warg’ comes from the Old English wear or wearh which means: “A felon, outlaw, villain.” The full etymology of the word is depressing reading if you are a subscriber to this thread:

OE. wear, wearh = OS. warag, OHG. warc, warch criminal, felon (whence Frankish Law Latin vargus outlaw), MHG. warc monster, ON. varg-r outlaw, hence wolf (Sw., Norw. varg, wolf, mod.Icel. vargur fox), Goth. *warg-s (attested by the compound launawargs unthankful person, and the derivatives ga-wargjan to condemn, wargia condemnation):OTeut. *waro-z.

Probable cognates outside Teut. are Lith. vârgas misery, vargti to be wretched, OPrussian wargs suffering (n.), evil, bad (adj.), Lettish wahrgs ill, OSl. vrag (Russian vrag) enemy.

As you can see, the root forms of the word are all grouped around ideas of criminality, outlawry and even outright monstrosity. Even the cognates are connected with conditions that are far from happy.

To be 'warg' is to be bad. :eek:

SamwiseGamgee

07-19-2004, 05:24 AM

Greetings Fordim, and well met!
Your search to the very roots of the fairest language on this world is honourable, and I tip my hat to it, but I feel you miss the ironic stance that the good Professor took. To use a word such as warg, knowing as he would its full meaning, I believe he attempted to baffle and mislead academics and scholars. 'How so?' I hear you ask. Well, allow me to explain.
I feel that Tolkien was showing that by becoming too bogged down and concerned with detail one can often be misled even to the wrong conclusion. I think, and I'm pretty sure that on this thread I'd get plenty of agreement, that if one looks at the bigger picture then wargs are clearly heroic, noble and great (spot the tautology!) beasts worthy of our respect!

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-19-2004, 09:58 AM

'Fairest language on this world'? I guess you're entitled to your opinion, Samwise. :D

Greetings Fordim and many thanks for presenting this information to the Thread. It was certainly a fascinating discovery for me to see the origins of the word warg.

However, I am inclined to believe that this is another example of Tolkien's subtle humour. Does not Gamgee literally mean 'half-wit'? :cool: Draw your own conclusions from that.

Mithalwen

07-19-2004, 12:29 PM

Err I think Samwise means halfwise and Hamfast means stay-at-home..... Gamgee is a kind of lint or cotton-wool covered in gauze ....

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-19-2004, 01:33 PM

Ah, my mistake Mithalwen and thank you for pointing it out. You are, of course, correct. :)

Nirvana II

07-19-2004, 09:09 PM

so in all basicality, wargs are big, intelligent, talking wolves who can easily be corrupted to evil?

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-20-2004, 10:09 AM

If a small child asked the question "What is a Warg?" then that would be an appropriate answer NirvanaII. However, to learn the truth, one must seek deeper answers. This Appreciation Thread is probably the next step. After that, there is a wealth of Warg-related literature available.

SamwiseGamgee

07-20-2004, 11:19 AM

so in all basicality, wargs are big, intelligent, talking wolves who can easily be corrupted to evil?

This is perhaps basically true, but 'basic' is itself a word which should not be associated with wargs. Wargs are complicated, intricate and diverse creatures, most certainly not basic. I think a fairer statement may be: wargs are huge, with the intelligence of many wise men and the communication skills of all but the most gifted elves. They are, however, prone to downfall. Similar, Nirvana II , but different for it gives a better sense of the warg and all its glory.

Here at the Warg and Warg Rider Appreciation Thread we aim to give wargs all the glory and honour they deserve. For many years the warg has been persecuted by ignorant men who know nothing of the ancient ways and majesty of these great creatures. It must stop. So, starting here we fellow warg appreciators must band together, sharing our joyous tales of wargs and educating the masses to the truth: wargs are our friends.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-21-2004, 06:52 AM

Well said Samwise, it has been a while since we had a good old-fashioned tale. There are a host of Warg-related tales just waiting to be told, the only hard part is deciding Which one to tell first?

Nirvana II

07-23-2004, 12:57 PM

but how many wargs had the intelligence of wise men???is it documented? could a warg solve any riddle i gave them?

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-24-2004, 10:56 AM

A greater proportion of Wargs are wise, compared with Men. A far greater proportion.

SamwiseGamgee

07-25-2004, 06:55 AM

Naturally, Nirvana II, a normal warg could not solve any riddle you gave it. For example- 'What have I got in my pockets?' However, a normal warg would be far more able to solve a riddle than a normal man. And the most wise of wargs could solve the above riddle, for they have powers of telepathy.

One thing, however, you must keep in mind: wisdom is not the solving of riddles.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-25-2004, 08:32 AM

Indeed, if there was a children's book with adventures similar to The Hobbit but instead called The Warg it would be an altogether darker affair. Riddles and games are associated with Hobbits. However knowledge, strength and wisdom are associated with Wargs.

It reminds me of a news article sometime ago. There was a jester performing in the street. He was a small chubby fellow with a large cheery face. Using the art of mime, he mocked all sorts of animals to the amusement of his (human) crowd. Out of nowhere, a Warg appeared and ripped him to shreds. Surely a lesson to take seriously those things which demand it.

Makes you think...

ninlaith

07-25-2004, 06:26 PM

Eomer I've come to a conclusion and I have to say.......you must really like wargs. Quite frankly your speaking so passionatly about wargs is what made me read this thread. I also have a little something to say about our belovedly snarling, and furry friends. During highschool I was ordered to read the epic novel Beowulf by the urgings of my teacher who wanted to help me expand my knowledge of Tolkiens readings. With Beowulf being one of Tolkiens favourite novels, I was more than happy to accept the challenge. I absolutley adored the novel. And I couldn't help noticing something. I had read LOTR long before I read Beowulf. With that being said I found myself using the same images I had for the wargs for my image of the deamon creature Grendal. My thoughts are that Tolkien loved the creature Grendal so dearly he felt he sort of needed to pay homage to this incredible being but with much greater numbers and savagery involved. Wargs are incredible creatures. They added another sense of ominous power to the unseen evil that is the Drak Lord.

SamwiseGamgee

07-26-2004, 04:57 AM

But, ninlaith, there is so much more to wargs than savagery and blood-letting! So deep, diverse and wonderful are they!

I think that perhaps Tolkien wasn't following the lead of Beowulf, but trying to rectify its harsh treatment of wolf-like creatures- and so the warg was created! Hallelujah!

The thing that we must remember here at the appreciation thread is that the wargs which did appear in LOTR(book) represented only a tiny minority of the warg population. On the whole wargs were not 'servants' of evil, but pleasant creatures, trying to impart wisdom to others and generally be nice. In fact, there is an interesting tale of wargs doing just that and being shunned by their helpees. I hope to post it soon. Until then, farewell.

ninlaith

07-26-2004, 08:15 AM

Even so. It's not that I meant wargs were evil creatures such as Grendal. Just that they were magnificent beings up to Grendals caliber. I just felt Tolkien wanted to pay homage to this creature be it a good way or a bad way. He seemed to love the wargs himself.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-27-2004, 06:54 AM

I would not disagree with that ninlaith, and by the way, if we haven't already welcomed you to The Appreciation Thread (I honestly can't remember, people tend to come and go) then you are due a hearty welcome! :)

I look forward to this tale Samwise. No doubt it will have me holding back the tears.

Nirvana II

07-27-2004, 08:58 AM

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-27-2004, 11:06 AM

Wargs run like the wind. There is no escaping the fact that every single Warg is remarkably fast. In general Wargs are just amazing physical specimens.

Diamond18

07-29-2004, 06:11 PM

Apologies for taking so long on my tale of the Origin of Wargs, but I have been delayed by some smugdes in the text that have necessitated travel to the janitor's closet at Marquette University, where the reallly hush-hush Tolkien documents are kept. Therein I am sure I will find the missing pieces to the tale. Apparently Aulë was up to no good again, but that's all I'll say.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-30-2004, 11:07 AM

You have us all salivating with anticipation Diamond.

SamwiseGamgee

07-30-2004, 03:46 PM

I was wondering today while driving all over this country of mine what the warg view on motorised transport is. What do they feel about the environmental impact of the automobile upon their natural lands? I can imagine the answer, but if anyone has any authority laying out the warg point of view I would find it most interesting.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-30-2004, 03:56 PM

The only point of relevance which I can add just now is this. I remember hearing about a year ago of an assault upon the local bus station. The culprits were clearly Wargs. The event had all the trademarks of a Wargian assault. I would not be at all surprised if Wargs despised man-made transport. As well as sharing the Professor's point of view about toxicity, the invention benefits the race of Men in their struggle against Wargs, a struggle which they have a better chance of winning nowadays.

One of the Nine

07-30-2004, 04:48 PM

I'm back and in full health. I have met a whole host of wargs, being very careful to be on their good side. They are very interesting, and have taught me some of their scratchy language. Well, I'm off to learn more with my beloved wargs.

Azaelia of Willowbottom

07-31-2004, 02:54 PM

I've caught the warg fascination bug... And now am wondering where the best place to find one is... Should I look in the mountains or in fields or in the forest? I tend to associate them with mountains, but am not sure.
Also, back in the early days of Middle-Earth, how were the wargs created? (After all, when going out looking for a warg, one must know as much as possible about them! ;) )

Eomer of the Rohirrim

08-01-2004, 03:02 PM

Ah! the origin of Wargs! There is a debate in which we have only scratched the surface of the content, here at the Appreciation Thread. For I don't believe Tolkien ever mentioned from whence they came. Please, list your ideas. :)

By the way, so nice of you to join us Azaelia. May your fascination with Wargs be long and healthy! :D

Diamond18

08-01-2004, 03:49 PM

It is told that in their beginning the Wargs were made by Aulë in the darkness of Middle-earth; for Aulë was mighty headstrong and the whole Dwarf incident had not taught him his lesson.

Aulë wrought the Wargs in secret under the mountains of Middle-earth, crafting their magnifcent bodies to be strong and unyielding. He made them much larger than Dwarves, and gave them a form of the kelvar, like unto wolves since as far as humanoid forms went, he'd already been there and done that. Yet he also made the Wargs things of beauty and elegance, and gave to them minds capable of infinite knowledge and wisdom.

Now Ilúvatar knew what was done, as always, and in the very hour when Aulë's work was complete, and he was giddy with pleasure, and began to instruct the Wargs in the speech he had devised for them, Ilúvatar spoke to him; and Aulë heard his voice and was silent, thus ending this run on sentence. "Why hast thou done this? Why hast thou done what I told thee not to do, again? What part of 'don't do this stuff anymore' dost thou not understand?"

Then Aulë scuffed his sneakers on the floor and shoved his hands in his pockets, shrugging. "I dunno," he mumbled.

And then Ilúvatar took up a gigantic hammer with teeth on the end, and said to the Wargs, "I know what thou art thinking. Is he going to forgive Aulë again or not? Well, to tell thee the truth, I can't really decide. But being as this is a 44 pound meat tenderizer, the most powerful hammer in the world, and would flatten thine heads to little pancakes, thou hast got to ask thyselves one question: Do we feel lucky? Well, do ya punks?"

And the Wargs shrank from the hammer and were afraid, and they bowed their heads and begged for mercy. Wargs are fearless, noble creatures, but this is Eru we're talkin' about here.

And Aulë said, "Noooooo!" and flung himself in front of the hammer. "I am the one who is in the wrong, kill me and let them live!" he pleaded.

But Ilúvatar took compassion upon Aulë and his creatures, and put aside the hammer. "Oh alright," he said. "But next time someone is going to get it, verily."

Aulë began to thank him profusely, but Ilúvatar held up a mighty hand and added, "Finished I am not. Since thou hast so presumptuously wrought creatures in secret not once but twice, still there is a punishment thou must endure. These creatures, so noble and magnificent, shall be cursed ever onward to live a dual existence. Moreso than any other creature shall they be prone to the extremities of good and evil -- thou hast given them great minds capable of much wisdom, and bodies capable of great strength, and now I also give to them teeth and jaws of totally wicked awesomeness, much like my Hammer of Death. It will ever be a struggle for them to use this gift for things that are good, pure, and just. And always they shall be misunderstood and loathed by my Children."

"Sounds fair," said Aulë. "Nonetheless, they will have need of meat."

Eomer of the Rohirrim

08-02-2004, 06:07 AM

It was definitely worth the wait. Bravo! :D

It certainly explains a lot. Any idea who devised this legend, Diamond?

One of the Nine

08-03-2004, 12:10 PM

How the wargs were made is a good question. I've heard many a folk tale and many a rumor in my recent travelings, and I do believe that Diamond18 has everything almost correct. One thing I have to add to this unfortunate tale is that one of the wargs did not cower in fear, however, he went away, thus avoiding the punishment of having to struggle. There was another with him, who he taught to banish the bad from his life, and they traveled together. They discovered a multitude of wonderful things, but no man or elf etc... would give them the time of day to discuss it. They would sooner just kill them. But there was someone who listened, and listened very well. His name is Morgoth, and he listened to everything the poor deceived wargs had to say. And then, after having milked them for all the knowledge he could get, he killed them with poisoned rabbit. He then set out, corrutpting the whole world that is Ea. This is how the last of the pure wargs came to an end.

Diamond18

08-03-2004, 03:00 PM

It certainly explains a lot. Any idea who devised this legend, Diamond?

I believe it was a Wargish scholar in the Third Age, by the name if Dir Te'Harre.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

08-03-2004, 03:02 PM

My goodness One of the Nine, that is a conclusion rife with despair. It pains me to think that it could end that way. I suppose that it is in keeping with the melancholy of Tolkien's legendarium though.

Can you tell us which people foretold this final doom of Wargs? Probably Men I would think, they are always thriving on the tales of dastardly Wargs.

Edit to add; Diamond, that is either a hoax, or a very unfortunate coincidence! :D

Eomer of the Rohirrim

08-07-2004, 09:24 AM

....by a forgotten Hobbit known only as Conor.

Well they're sure keen on dancin'
Those Evendim Wargs, those Evendim Wargs got it made
When they act big doors open
Those Evendim Wargs, those Evendim Wargs got it made
So let's party, Rosie Cotton
Those Evendim Wargs, those Evendim Wargs got it made

Oh how the Sun sets on the Tower Hills,
But leaves quite a shadow to fill

Oh the death of a fast life
Those Evendim Wargs, those Evendim Wargs got to pay
That's some will you've been drinking
Those Evendim Wargs, those Evendim Wargs got to pay

So look closer, do you still think that
Those Evendim Wargs, those Evendim Wargs got it made?

SamwiseGamgee

08-08-2004, 08:45 AM

That's quite a song, Eomer. It does, however, sound strangely reminiscent of some song I can't quite put my finger on. I imagine some scoundrel has changed the song and taken credit for it. If I ever find that mischievous cretin I shall skin him like a giant auk!

SamwiseGamgee

08-10-2004, 08:07 AM

After much research I have managed to uncover a couple more songs regarding wargs. Enjoy.

Paranoid Warg
Please could you stop the noise, I'm trying to get some rest
From all the unborn orcish voices in my head
What's that...?
What's that...?

When I’m dark lord, you will be first against the wall
With your ent who is of no consequence at all
What's that...?
What's that...?

Pipeweed makes you look pretty ugly
Kicking and squealing fat little hobbit
You don't remember
You don't remember
Why don't you remember my name?
Off with his head, man
Off with his head, man
Why don't you remember my name? I guess he does...

Snow down, snow down
Come on snow down on me
From Caradhras
FromCaradhras...
Snow down, snow down
Come on snow down on me
From Caradhras
From Caradhras...
Snow down, snow down
Come on snow down on me

That's it, elf
You're leaving
The crackle of manflesh
The dust and the screaming
The Rohirrim networking
The panic, the vomit
The panic, the vomit
Wargs love their children, wargs love their children, yeah!

Stairway to Wargy
There's a hobbit who's sure all that glitters is gold
And he's buying a stairway to Wargy.
When he gets there he knows, if the stores are all closed
With a word he can get what he came for.
Ooh, ooh, and he's buying a stairway to Wargy.

There's a sign on the wall but he wants to be sure
'Cause you know sometimes words have two meanings.
In a tree by the brook, there's a songbird who sings,
Sometimes all of our thoughts are of wargs.
Ooh, it makes me wonder,
Ooh, it makes me wonder.

There's a feeling I get when I look to the west,
And my spirit is crying for leaving.
In my thoughts I have seen rings of smoke through the trees,
And the voices of those who standing looking.
Ooh, it makes me wonder,
Ooh, it really makes me wonder.

And it's whispered that soon if we all call the tune
Then Wargy will lead us to reason.
And a new day will dawn for those who stand long
And the wargs will echo with laughter.

If there's a warg in your hedgerow, don't be alarmed now,
It's just killing an innocent passer by.
Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on.
And it makes me wonder.

Your head is humming and it won't go, in case you don't know,
Wargy’s calling you to join him,
Dear lady, can you hear the warg howl, and did you know
Your stairway lies on the breast of Wargy.

And as we wind on down the road
Our shadows taller than our soul.
There walks a warg who we all know
Who shines white light and wants to show
How everything still turns to gold.
And if you listen very hard
The tune will come to you at last.
When all are one and one is all
To be a rock and not to roll.

And he's buying a stairway to Wargy.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

08-10-2004, 11:07 AM

One of the hazier days on the Zep tourbus I suppose....

SamwiseGamgee

08-11-2004, 07:21 AM

I would suggest perhaps the greatest day on the Zep tourbus- the day Wargy was recognised in fair song!
How was your History of wargs exam, Eomer?

Eomer of the Rohirrim

08-11-2004, 09:39 AM

I think it went rather well, certainly better than the first time around. I answered questions on the following subjects;

* Charles I and the theory that Wargs were to blame for his downfall.

* The French Revolution and the failed attempt of the Wargs to stop 'The Terror'.

*The rise to power of Lenin (who was, of course, tutored by a Warg).

There was an unsavoury moment after the exam however, as another student spotted me with my copy of The Lord of the Rings and promptly gave me a verbal battering for reading 'such junk' (I swear, that's what he said). Needless to say I went for him as swiftly as a crebain from Dunland, my hands around his neck before he could squeal his apologies. We were separated by the mob of students around us, and in the ensuing melee, I escaped and boarded the first plane to Japan.

I guess you also have a tale to tell regarding your exam, which also featured Wargs Samwise.

Sleepy Ranger

08-11-2004, 01:23 PM

I can not believe I have never seen this thread before. I must now after going over your readings, say that I am not much compared to the rest of you in Warg Knowledge but I have done my fair share of reasearch on wargs and have gone on many expeditions (recorded and unrecorded) to seek out legendary wargs. On my last trip some two weeks back, I had a chance of visiting some of the forests of India and there hoped to spot and study The White-Bengali Warg. After hearing many tales about these legendary wargs I was all the more eager to encounter one of these. It took 5 days before we reached the spot where these wargs are generally seen and upon reaching there, I was left in awe by their magnifecence. They were far greater than any folk tale in those parts. It was a matter of chance that I had stumbled upon them on the eve of their celebrations of their monsoon festival. I was soon seen by them and they called upon me to join in. And I was surprised by their great hospitality and think more highly of them than before. After a few nights of feasting and storytelling I was invited as a guest to watch their season dances. Their splendaour left me in awe but then I recalled I had a plane to catch in 2 days and I thought I would miss it. I told one of their elders of my problem and he sent me along with a younger warg as a guide and I had arrived back in my hotel in less than a hour.

They invited me back for the winter festivel in December. I have many a more tales to share with yo. But they are for another time as I have some work to do now.

-Sleepy Ranger

Eomer of the Rohirrim

08-12-2004, 07:16 AM

Hail and welcome Sleepy Ranger to the Warg and Warg Rider Appreciation Thread! My, my, that must have been quite some experience for you. There's no doubt that Asia is one of the more Warg-friendly parts of the world. To have seen Wargs in dance, oh I can only dream!

I was thinking about making a post in opposition to those who say that Tolkien did not think much of Wargs. It will involve analysis of those (admittedly few) chapters in his books which discuss Wargs. My aim is to show that Tolkien painted a picture of a mighty being.

SamwiseGamgee

08-14-2004, 04:46 AM

I imagine that shall be worth every moment of the all too protracted wait, Eomer.
My exams on 'Substantive Warg Law' and 'Commercial Wargs' went alright, though the latter was a toughy. 'Explain how the Warg Act 1985 allows for different subdivisions of wargs.' Not fun.
Welcome, Sleepy Ranger, and please excuse my tardiness in greeting you, many great things have weighed heavy on my mind these past days...

Eomer of the Rohirrim

08-17-2004, 08:09 AM

I have decided to abandon the task of showing how Tolkien portrayed Wargs as great in his books. With the merest of glances at Out of the Frying-Pan into the Fire in The Hobbit one can plainly see that Tolkien thought highly of Wargs. Thus, the self-appointed task would have been a pointless endeavour.

It strikes me now that what Tolkien dismissed from his works was the cultural aspects of Warg life. This can probably be explained by the fact that The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings were written about times of War and not peace or plenty. Also, he had spent too much time building up the beauty of the Elves to overshadow them with Wargs.

And let's be honest, Legolas is going to be a much more appropriate poster-boy for the desired movie-audience than any Warg.

By the way, excellent avatar Samwise. :D

SamwiseGamgee

08-17-2004, 09:36 AM

Thank you, Eomer, I believe it is a commandment by which all men should live their lives! And I'll tell you something else, the World would be a far better place if men would obey the warg rather than shun him and treat him as an enemy.
I must say that I hold your logic on Tolkien's approach to wargs to be rather excellent, Eomer. Wargs would have eclipsed the elves like Luthien would eclipse a dwarf-maiden, so better to not spend much time on them. Though I have to say, I don't perhaps agree that Tolkien had in mind 'poster boys' when he characterised Legolas! :)

Sleepy Ranger

08-17-2004, 10:08 AM

"A hot day, we have wandered far unto the deepest and darkest depths of these jungles and yet not sighted what we came in search of. We lost our path on the 17th day and have been wandering aimlessly in the jungles. Our supplies were running low and it seemed we would reach our end soon. But as we struck camp for the evening, the most unexpected thing happened, a miracle. We saw figures in the trees, very much like the Great Warg of the Sea, but these shone so radiant that it can not be set on paper. A joyus flame burning in their eyes. They approached us at a steady pace and led us back to their home, where they...."

This is a diary entry of one of my ancestors. Alas, most of it did not survive the trials of time, this little bit that was still readable I have passed on to you. I am yet trying to decipher the rest of the paper and when I get a breakthrough (With any hopes soon) I shall inform you of what happened later on. A rough image I get from the words that our yet understandable say something about, beauty, spleandour and magnificence and then most of it can not be understood. I am trying my best and soon hope to decipher the rest of these diary entries.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

08-18-2004, 05:02 AM

My goodness Sleepy Ranger please do your utmost to get more of this tale. It sounds like a fantastical adventure full of wonderment. Any idea where it took place?

Samwise, I only meant that P. Jackson considered Legolas to be a poster-boy. Now that I consider it, he made Gothmog into an Orc, he may as well have made him a Warg.

Now that I consider this further, perhaps Gothmog was a Warg! Any thoughts?

Sleepy Ranger

08-18-2004, 06:04 AM

My goodness Sleepy Ranger please do your utmost to get more of this tale. It sounds like a fantastical adventure full of wonderment. Any idea where it took place?

As far as I can see it happened in Africa because from what I can tell of previous entries is that their party had docked at Cape Horn. And I am glad to say that we are making progress in revealing the conetnts of the letter and it seems that we may be on our way to some ground breaking discovery.

Now that I consider this further, perhaps Gothmog was a Warg! Any thoughts?

Yes, It may be so. The topic would be very open to debate. But I suspect it not. Because if Gothmog was a warg I supposed Minas Tirith would have fallen, after all who can defeeat a warg in its full glory in battle?

SamwiseGamgee

08-18-2004, 06:06 AM

Is there a possibility that Gothmog was in fact the warg which that pink pig-orc was riding on? I think there's no other explanation. After all, which serious Tolkien fan could possibly be asked to believe that the pig-orc was Gothmog?

Eomer of the Rohirrim

08-19-2004, 05:40 AM

Hmmm, that would have to be explained by extremely poor directing and I will not say that of Peter Jackson, no way, despite my criticisms of the film.

Saucepan Man is, of course, famously opposed to the film representation of Wargs. They are his least enjoyed part of the films I believe. I can certainly appreciate those thoughts. The Wargs in the movie were utterly bereft of the magnificent characteristics which add up to make Wargs the single most glorious species in the history of any world.

A bold statement, but I stand by it.

SamwiseGamgee

08-19-2004, 12:32 PM

Wargs [are] the single most glorious species in the history of any world.
May I say I rally round your flag of warg worship, Eomer. For too long I feel that we have perhaps been happy to sit in our own ways, just sharing warg stories but not educating the masses as to how great and wonderful wargs are.
Perhaps now is the time for change. Perhaps now we need to go out and not give people the option- we must force the glory of the warg upon them!
Never before in the field of human existence has so much been owed by man to the warg!

Diamond18

08-19-2004, 06:42 PM

Perhaps now we need to go out and not give people the option- we must force the glory of the warg upon them!

Does this involve tearing dissenters to bloody shreds? Hmmm.... The Doom laid upon Wargs by Eru has apparently spread to Warg Enthusiasts. :p

Eomer of the Rohirrim

08-20-2004, 08:37 AM

We're in too deep now Diamond. As Samwise has shown, our souls are now intrinsically linked with The Warg and Warg Rider Appreciation Thread.

But how will the masses possibly understand the truth. Perhaps we need to undertake a project of subtle mind control. Better read up on the Saruman chapters, and learn from his mistakes.

SamwiseGamgee

08-23-2004, 04:12 AM

Ah, tis the oldest riddle known to warg appreciators: 'how can we convert the masses?' Perhaps we need not to take pointers and guidance from Saruman but instead we should say to ourselves 'what would a warg do?', and act accordingly. For surely we cannot go too far off course with that in mind.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

08-23-2004, 07:44 AM

Would Wargs want the recognition of Men? I'm not sure. I think that, after all these years of disrespect and hatred, the Wargs have had enough and are possibly planning a major War against mankind as we speak.

Thus predicted Galadriel after a Lothlorien guard slew a Warg on the country's borders, back in the early Third Age.

SamwiseGamgee

08-24-2004, 03:21 AM

And if the wargs have been planning a war that long then you can be sure that when it comes it shall eradicate mankind.
So we must try to call as many as is possible to our banner! We must save the devoted number and pray that the wargs shall have mercy upon us!
Quiver, puny humans!

Eomer of the Rohirrim

08-24-2004, 06:31 AM

Meh. If the Wargs want to destroy humanity then I'm sure they have a good reason for it. Anyway, there's no way we can stop them so we may as well just have a big fiesta.

I'm currently unearthing some more songs related to the exploits of Wargs. I shall post the first one in due time.

SamwiseGamgee

08-29-2004, 05:20 AM

I shall look forwrd to your post, Eomer.
I do not think that wargs would be so crude as to commit such an uncomely crime as genocide. A warg is a noble creature and can surely work out that genocide achieves nothing other than a lot of bodies. Was it not James Joyce who wrote: Genocide achieves nothing, and wargs know that. An apt man, that Joyce.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

08-30-2004, 08:38 AM

...written by a Hobbit named Frosco in the Third Age.

Warg Rider, a desire to be loved
Climb higher, to the platform just above
Little liar, you deceive me with your wit
Elocution, sculptured perfectly to fit

Tug of War, with the blessed and the mugged
Please let me quiz you, rest assured
Town crier, has our voices in his coat

Warg Rider, a desire to be loved

Warg Rider, a sifting signal of the times
Tossed and turned up, in deceptional rhymes
Soap and water, wash your mouth out all the same
She's my daughter, but I let her play the game.

-Now, what to make of this song? It was written to show the fear which the Warg Rider brought to a small Hobbit village just to the north-east of the White Downs. You'll notice the mocking way in which the writer uses the term desire to be loved. This is a reference to the Hobbits who were too indecisive about the defence of their village and instead waxed philosophical about the merits of the Warg Rider. Of course, as a result, the Warg Rider tricked his way into the village and nearly destroyed it. Perhaps the Hobbit writer is trying to show that a wisdom and knowledge of ethics, etc. is necessary before just anyone tries to act clever. Maybe if the Hobbits had reacted properly they could have resisted the Warg Rider.

A sad song it is. The last line is generally interpreted as a reference to a young Hobbit lass who was abducted by the Warg Rider and never found again.

SamwiseGamgee

09-01-2004, 04:41 PM

Interesting indeed, Eomer. Once again you suprise and delight with your unearthing of warg related titbits. It does astound me how these fools can deride the Warg Rider so flippantly and nigh on insultingly. One has no suprise that he strung them up by their intestines and allowed crows to peck at their genitals.*
I have of late been looking through some literature of a non-Tolkien origin in an attempt to find anything in reference to wargs. My search has been fruitless, but I'm sure with a little more trying I'll find something. Must keep trying.

*-dramatisation, may not have happened.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

09-02-2004, 06:15 AM

They can be found in the deep, dark places of the world. They are hard to find, but they are worth the journey.

Azaelia of Willowbottom

09-02-2004, 06:20 PM

Yes, while on vacation a week ago, in an area where few humans live, I saw signs of wargs... I was hot on the trail for many days, giving up rest and food and drink for a chance of a chance to meet wargs... And all in vain, I might add. Just as I felt I was getting really close, the call came to pack my bags and leave the place... I will not be discouraged by this temporary setback. Better luck next year. :rolleyes:

SamwiseGamgee

09-03-2004, 11:22 AM

Do not be discouraged, Azaelia . The hunt for wargs is a long and deadly one, and few men ever succeed in their quest to find one. I, for example, once spent 14 months in a cardboard box measuring 3ft cubed in the Japanese Alps in the hope of seeing a warg. I never did, but I don't mind that, not only because I have been blessed enough to see other wargs but because it taught me a great deal: the hardships wargs must face, the nutritional value of excrement and just how many hairs grow inside my nose are but a few.

SamwiseGamgee

09-13-2004, 10:37 AM

What has gone wrong? It seems years ago that I last posted on this most noble of threads. It was a mere ten days ago, and while in the past I have seen hundreds of posts leap onto a thread in this time no man has dared post on this thread in that time.
Why, oh why? Even our great leader, Eomer, so faithful in his warg knowledge, has not posted. It breaks my heart.
Wargs are everything to us subscribers to this thread. Our friends, our lovers (selected individuals) and our heroes. Surely when we have an opportunity to show our appreciation we should. Come, one and all, post with your interesting or enrapturing tales of wargs. Even if you are a newcomer and unsure, just post, or better still, ask_wargy@hotmail.com.
Brothers and sisters, I call upon you to remember one thing: wargs. Just think on all that those great beasts of legend embody and ask yourself not what wargs can do for you, but what you can do for wargs. And then post your suggestions. Ahem.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

09-15-2004, 12:32 PM

Fear not, Thread, my computer is now fixed and I shall return to my ritual of daily visits to the Downs and our beloved Thread in particular.

I think it is time for another song concerning Wargs. Be prepared for this glorious song! I experienced it live and it brought tears to the eyes. I shall post soon.

The possibility of Warg-related clothing is also a topic which should be addressed. Samwise and I intend to show our love for Wargs by purchasing custom-made clothing from an internet distributor. Would the Wargs appreciate this? I would say aye, yet I fear that the Wargs would be infuriated if we started a trend among the wannabe 'cool kids' to wear Warg fashion.

Let us hope that this power to convey our true feelings remains with the wise, and not the fashionistas, for it is well known how the Wargs despise bandwagon-jumpers.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

09-17-2004, 02:24 PM

....by the beloved Colin McIntyre.

Why, have we got to try?
Time's on our side, in these mechanical times,
Swallow the pride, of the digital minds,
If time's on our side,

How 'bout you love Wargs more,
How 'bout you love Wargs more,
How 'bout you love Wargs more,

Why, have we got to fly?
Numenoreans have lied,
Time-honoured minds,
Gil-galad's a spy,
Science collides,
Time's on our side,

How 'bout you love Wargs more,
How 'bout you love Wargs more,
How 'bout you love Wargs more,

It's all over the news, it's all over again,

Why, do we have to fight?
The Eldar have died,
Metaphysics denied,
Tar-Palantir was right,
Tomorrow's arrived,
Rebuild their designs.

How 'bout you love Wargs more?

This was a song written for those faithful to the Elves on the island of Numenor, cherishing the simple joys (specifically Wargs) which they left behind on Middle-earth. Alas! Numenor had bliss at a point, but there were no Wargs, and that left a sore feeling among the faithful, especially near the catastrophic end.

High King Fingolfin

09-17-2004, 02:50 PM

I'm back after five weeks of not posting on this thread, or even on the Downs itself!

Welcome everyone new, I'm having trouble keeping track of you.

I found the Wargs who lived near my house - further details later.

SamwiseGamgee

09-20-2004, 03:50 PM

Bravo on finding that song, Eomer, and hail thee, High King Fingolfin!
Here follows a song written by the hobbit known as Conor:

You can't fool old wargs with bad pipeweed
A warg with a heart of gold
Cheap pipeweed that can't be sold
Will send you to an early grave

But Wargy looked down and said 'Son,
I know a conman when I see one,
That pipeweed smells like an orc's bum.'

You just laughed and said
No one here forgets those wargs

The elves had a meeting of minds
Consistent hypocrisy... hey! That's alright
Let's overthrow this old town

So hands off the virgin warg queen
You can't fool old wargs with bad pipeweed
Cos they'll send you to an early grave

I'm not exactly sure what the young, 'artistically tormented' hobbit is referring to in the third stanza of this song, some say it is a political outcry at Rivendell's increasingly xenophobic foreign policy in the Third Age, others say it may be aimed more at Lothlorien. Politics aside, though, it's a great song!
Another song I also greatly enjoy is one written by an anonymous muse, who after hearing of wargs and their greatness came late to the Warg and Warg Rider Appreciation Thread but I think all here could identify with it:

Infatuation
You don't know by now
To take me to the Downs
Take me to the Downs

You don't know by now
To take me to the Downs
Take me to the Downs

Infatuation

You don't know by now
To take me to the Downs
Take me to the Downs

Infatuation
Infatuation
Infatuation

Infatuation with the warg
In my mind on the Downs
Infatuation with the warg
In my mind on the Downs
Infatuation with the warg
In my mind on the Downs
Infatuation with the warg
In my mind on the Downs

Eomer of the Rohirrim

09-21-2004, 01:45 PM

Nice songs Samwise, although I too am slightly worried about the meaning towards the end of that first song.

Isn't it funny how, when seeing the songs about Wargs typed or written, one can instantly add a tune to it. I have heard of a little known Norwegian band called Aeglos who write songs about Middle-earth and Wargs. Their music is varied. They have songs which would not seem out of a place at a Hobbit party, yet they also deal with the dark political and military sides of Middle-earth. Another example of Tolkien's influence.

SamwiseGamgee

09-22-2004, 06:18 AM

It is certainly an interesting aspect of the good professor's wide-spanning influence. There's no doubting the fact that his works have spanned further than we can ever imagine. And I think we must all stop to remember one thing, were it not for Prof. J.R.R. Tolkien there is a good chance that we would not know of wargs. That we, that most esteemed and devout alumni would be nought but ignorant fools, completely in the dark as regards those wonderful and great beasts who are like deities amongst us: wargs. So, I thank you, professor, and may you rest in the bosom of a warg.

High King Fingolfin

09-27-2004, 07:30 PM

Indeed, without the professor, we would know nothing of the great and illustrious and Warg.

I will finish transcribing my tale soon. I was lucky to see as many Wargs as I did. :D :D It was an experience I will never forget.

High King Fingolfin

10-28-2004, 10:10 AM

:eek:
This thread has been abandoned! Where are you all? Nobody has posted for more than a month!
:eek: :eek:

Eomer of the Rohirrim

11-01-2004, 08:34 AM

Ah, dear Fingolfin, I have debated long and hard with myself about whether to continue this thread. I think that, perhaps, its time has come and it should be given a proper burial.

I often go back and read the thread in its entirity yet I cannot think of anything worthy to add to it. Maybe I could write a lament for the thread?

THE Ka

11-01-2004, 10:59 PM

Aw goddess, at least someone is the equal activists tonight. i was always wonderring when the Wargs would get the limelight.

As a child i believed that my angry-psedo 70-year-old neighbor next door had a Warg in his back yard. Turns out it was two very old and equally angry neighbor dogs that look exactly like Hyenas, except they liked cheeto's and belly rubs :) (Everyone on que say "Aww!")... i found that out on a mistake crossing into my neighbor's back yard. i don't know why, but i've had this creepy magnetic connection with animals. My friend thinks it is funny to go to the zoo and watch as the monkey's yell with enthusiasm and throw fruit at the glass wall in my direction :( ... i don't get it. I never harmed them...

SamwiseGamgee

11-03-2004, 04:00 AM

Eomer of the Rohirrim

11-03-2004, 03:16 PM

Well, it almost goes without saying that this is a tale that should, nay, must be told Samwise.

And where better to tell it, than on The Warg and Warg Rider Appreciation Thread! :D

THE Ka

11-03-2004, 06:04 PM

Beware, Ka , the warg is not a creature in whose affairs you may meddle flippantly. Wargs are noble beasts, with a lineage greater than all in Middle Earth. The story is so rarely told, but Eomer , I pray for a small time before this thread is laid to rest so that I may post a tale which has no rival: The Last King of Wargs . What say you, Horsemaster?

I spoke in a passive voice. In other words, i was not imposing the view of be-littleing Wargs, only telling factual events that i am a part of. I hope you observe this reply without feeling a means for threat, or imposing anger. I wish only to explain. :)

Thank you,

THE Ka

SamwiseGamgee

11-05-2004, 07:51 AM

"Though I live to be older than the mountains and wiser than the Valar themselves I will never undestand how men can see wisdom in war."
From The Last King of Wargs

The Ka , please accept my apology, but also try to understand my caution. Here at The Warg and Warg Rider Appreciation Thread we have grown naturally cautious of those who would seek to poison and destroy the good name of wargs. But greetings are exteded to you.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

12-23-2004, 09:01 AM

As is told in The Silmarillion the first Men were awoken in the east of Middle-earth at the rising of the Sun. What is not told is the dramatic near-miss that the unwoken Men, and the Valar, went through.

Melkor was indeed preoccupied in those days. However, the Valar were not so confident in themselves that they could not doubt that the Dark Lord had plans in motion. Long he had sought for the resting place of Men and he found it after much peril and trickery. The Valar possibly did not realise that he had found it, and thus did not intervene in Melkor's ambitions. However, there were others who knew of Melkor's plans.

There was one Eldanar (no-one knows if this was his right name), an Elf of Middle-earth. It was believed that he was of the Nandor, those who chose not to depart their homeland for the Blessed Realm. He was an unhappy being. His life had been much harder than the lives of other Elves, and he was respected and given great sympathy by the Elves he knew. However, he never became close to many others, and for this reason he found it hard to summon allies, thought no-one bore him any ill-will. This Eldanar had stumbled upon Melkor's intention by accident, after speaking with the birds and the beasts all over the land. He sensed an opportunity to do a great deed, and began preparations.

You see, Melkor had designed to greet the awakening Men, and ensnare them into his service right from the start. The Elves of Middle-earth could sense that great things were happening, they had all heard rumours of the 'Followers', and they wished to meet them and help them. Eldanar saw that he needed to act quickly if he were to save Men from the Dark One.

But for the reasons given before, Eldanar could not summon enough allies to even challenge Melkor. So it was that, at the rising of the Sun, the Elf left home to travel into the East with a small host. Eldanar's gloom was apparent, and he saw no hope for Men.

He arrived at the designated point to witness the great host of Melkor congregated in a gigantic lush valley. The skies were dark, despite the Sun, and Eldanar beheld from afar the huge and terrible form of the Dark Lord himself, waiting for the great awakening.

Melkor saw the Elves and laughed out loud. It was indeed a pitiful host compared to his. With him were many Orcs and fell creatures and beasts, and even three Uruloki. If battle were to commence, it was to be swift and decisive in the favour of Melkor. But Eldanar did indeed desire battle, for he desired the end of his unhappy life and he greeted hesitantly the opportunity to go out fighting the great enemy.

But the Men would not awaken. Whether by some design from the Creator or the collective will of his greatest servants the Valar, the Men stayed in their slumber. And this time afforded a chance so unlikely to the Elves, that they barely took part in the upcoming battle, so shocked and frozen were they by the events that unfolded.

From the South came an almighty host of Wargs, and these Wargs were great in size and majesty. Their speed stunned Melkor and he fled in terror. His Orcs were utterly slaughtered by the furious Wargs and those that fled were mostly slain by the Elves. The Uruloki engaged in tumultuous warfare with the Wargs but they could not defeat them, great and terrible though they were, and in the end these huge demons had to flee for their lives as well. None could withstand the fury that the Wargs brought with them.

When asked, Eldanar could not tell how many Wargs had arrived. They were apparently countless. Eldanar himself could barely watch the unfolding carnage of the battle, but several Elves afterwards said that no fury could ever compare to that displayed by the Wargs against Melkor and his minions.

Thus Men could awake, and this story surely details the great irony that followed, of the poor treatment given to the Wargs by Men ever after.