New Tolkien Books:updates

[davem]

Thought it might be useful to have a thread running where we can keep up to date with new publications by or about Tolkien. This doesn't have to be limited to scholarly works, just anything Tolkien related that looks interesting. I've lifted publisher's details from Blackwells & Amazon.

Just to start off, I've found these current & forthcoming books that look interesting:

Tolkien Studies (volume 2). (Verlyn Flieger/Michael Drout eds) Currently available. Publisher's details:

Tolkien Studies is an annual journal of scholarship on J.R.R. Tolkien and his works. Since the publication of The Hobbit in 1937, the writings of J.R.R. Tolkien have been admired throughout the world. With the publication in the 1950s of The Lord of the Rings, Tolkien's fantasy writing began to attract academic attention in both the classroom and the world of scholarship. Most recently, Peter Jackson's three-part movie adaptation has added film-study scholars to those fascinated by Tolkien's work. Tolkien Studies: An Annual Scholarly Review is the first scholarly journal published by an academic press for the purpose of presenting and reviewing the growing body of critical commentary and scholarship about Tolkien's writings. The founding editors--Douglas A. Anderson, Michael D. C. Drout, and Verlyn Flieger-- and the members of the editorial board--David Bratman, Carl F. Hostetter, Tom Shippey, Richard C. West, and Marjorie Burns--are all distinguished Tolkien scholars.

Perilous Realms:Celtic and Norse in Tolkien's Middle-Earth (Marjorie Burns)Forthcoming. Publisher's details:

.R.R. Tolkien (1892-1973) is increasingly recognized as the most influential writer of the twentieth century. Sales of his books remain exceptionally high, and Middle-earth fan clubs flourish around the world. The film versions made of The Lord of the Rings, released between 2001 and 2003, have only added to his popularity. Throughout his life, Tolkien was acutely aware of the power of myth in shaping society; so much so, that one of his earliest ambitions as a writer was to create a mythology for England. The Middle-earth of The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit was to serve as a stand-in for Britain and northwestern Europe and is strongly based on a variety of influential literatures and beliefs, particularly the Celtic and Norse. Perilous Realms is the first book to focus consistently on the ways in which Tolkien balances these two ancient cultures and unites them in a single literature. Renowned Tolkien scholar Marjorie Burns also investigates the ways Tolkien reconciled other oppositions, including paganism and Christianity, good and evil, home and wayside, war and peace, embellishment and simplicity, hierarchy and the common man.
Even those who do not know Beowulf, the Arthurian tales, or northern European mythology come away from The Lord of the Rings with a feeling for Britain's historical and literary past. Those who recognize the sources behind Tolkien - and the skill with which he combines these sources - gain far more. Perilous Realms gives this advantage to all readers and provides new discoveries, including material from obscure, little-known Celtic texts and a likely new source for the name 'hobbit.' It is truly essential reading for Tolkien fans.

Smith of Wooton Major (ed Verlyn Flieger). Pub. September?. Publisher's details:

A new, expanded edition of one of Tolkien's major pieces of short fiction, and his only finished work dating from after publication of The Lord of the Rings; it contains many previously unpublished texts. In 1964 J.R.R. Tolkien was invited to write the preface to a new edition of "The Golden Key" by George MacDonald. Accepting the invitation, Tolkien proposed the preface would explain the meaning of Fairy through a brief story about a cook and a cake. But the story grew, and took on a life of its own, and the preface was abandoned. Tolkien eventually gave it the title, "Smith of Wootton Major", to suggest an early work by P.G. Wodehouse or a story in the Boy's Own paper. It was published in 1967 as a small hardback, complete with charming black and white illustrations by Pauline Baynes.
Now, almost 40 years on, a facsimile of this early illustrated edition is being republished, but in addition to this enchanting story the new edition includes: / Tolkien's own account of the genesis of the story / Tolkien's Time-Scheme and Characters / Tolkien's discussion of the shadowy but important figure of "Grandfather Rider" and a lengthy, 10,000-word essay on the nature of Faery / Early draft versions and alternative endings / Foreword by the editor, containing a brief history of the story's composition and publication, and its connection to Tolkien's other published stories Contained within "Smith of Wootton Major" are many intriguing links to the world of Middle-earth, as well as Tolkien's other tales, and in this 'extended edition' the reader will finally discover the full story behind this major piece of short fiction.

The JRR Tolkien Companion & Guide: A two volume work due out ? Don't know - its been promised for a couple of years. Latest publication date is October. Publishers details are:

Stunning slipcase containing the most comprehensive in-depth companion to Tolkien's life and works ever published, including synopses of all his writings, and a Tolkien gazetteer, who's who and chronology. Created to be the central reference work for readers and students of Tolkien, the two volumes contained in this slipcase approach his life from two different angles and give the most thorough analysis of Tolkien's work within the context of his life. The first volume includes brief but comprehensive introductions and notes on a wide range of topics, and points the way, through discussion and bibliographies, to further reading. It includes a Chronology and a Tolkien Who's Who, plus information about: * Tolkien's sources * political and social events through which Tolkien lived * the importance of poetry in Tolkien's work * his special interests such as astronomy, botany and calligraphy * the breadth of his reading * the importance of clubs and groups in his social life * his religion * his service in the 1914-18 war * his tendency to rewrite * his interest in every aspect of his books (covers, illustrations, lettering) * elements frequently found in his works: dragons, trees, etc.
* the 'Tolkien cult' and fan mail The second volume is the ultimate 'one-stop' reference text detailing the parallel chronologies of Tolkien's personal and academic life, and of his writings. The book draws it's information from a wide variety of reliable contemporary sources including biographies, Tolkien's letters, The Tolkien Family Album, correspondence with Allen & Unwin, C. S Lewis letters and the diaries of W.H. Lewis. Using these materials the book details, with tremendous accuracy, every aspect of Tolkien's life from births and deaths and moves of house to matters associated with Oxford University: Tolkien's visit to Rotterdam, his BBC broadcasts and significant Inkling meetings are all recorded and examined.

The Lord of the Rings Readers Companion: Single volume companion to LotR. Again promised October. Publishers details:

A unique companion to The Lord of the Rings which relates the textual history of the Nation's Favourite Read; with a previously unpublished Guide to the Names in The Lord of the Rings, written by Tolkien himself. In The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion internationally acclaimed scholars Wayne G. Hammond and Christina Scull examine Tolkien's masterpiece chapter by chapter, offering expert insights into its evolution, structure, and meaning. They discuss in close detail important literary and historical influences on the development of The Lord of the Rings, connections between that work and other writings by Tolkien, errors and inconsistencies, significant changes to the text during its fifty years of publication, archaic and unusual words used by Tolkien, and words and passages in his invented languages of Middle-earth. Thousands of notes, keyed to standard editions of The Lord of the Rings but universally accessible, reveal the richness and complexity of one of the most popular works of fiction in our time.
In addition to their own expertise and that of other scholars and critics, Hammond and Scull frequently draw upon comments by Tolkien himself, made in letters to family, friends, and enthusiasts, in draft texts of The Lord of the Rings, and in works written in later years which amplify or illuminate characters and events in the story. Extensive reference is made also to writings by Tolkien not previously or widely published, including elaborate time-schemes, an unfinished manuscript index to The Lord of the Rings, and most notably, the important Nomenclature or guide to names in The Lord of the Rings prepared for the use of translators, long out of print and now newly transcribed and printed in its entirety. With these resources at hand, even the most seasoned reader of The Lord of the Rings will come to a greater enjoyment and appreciation of Tolkien's magnificent achievement.

(Note: this is also included in a four volume boxed set with the three vols of LotR in the fiftieth anniversary version.

Re-reading the Lord of the Rings. Again, Probably October. Publisher's details:

J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings trilogy have become among of the most popular books of the twentieth century while the recent film adaptations have made box office records. This book provides a comprehensive, informed, critical and theoretical analysis of both the book and film trilogies. The book is organised in four thematic sections. Beginning with an analysis of the critical history of Tolkien, the first section, 'Context and Criticism', examines and contrasts the historical and intellectual context of the books, films and their criticism. The second, 'Space, Place and Communities', turns to the philosophical and post-colonial concerns which structure contemporary understandings of the book and film. The third section, 'Gender, Sexuality and Class', shows how these issues are depicted in the novels and films. The final section, 'Tolkien's Futures', looks at the continuing influence of his work in both more traditional literary forms and in contemporary game and electronic narratives.

Table of Contents
Criticism - Michael D. C. Drout, Wheaton College, Norton, MA
2. Time and Narrative Space - Barry Langford, Royal Holloway, University of London
3. Modernity - Michael Moses, Duke University
4. Gothic Echoes - Sue Zlosnik, Manchester Metropolitan University
5. Religion - Adam Roberts, Royal Holloway, University of London

Part II: Space, Place and Communities
6. Invisibility and Community - Robert Eaglestone, Royal Holloway, University of London
7. Dark Globalisation - Olivia Jennings, Royal Holloway, University of London
8. Home - Simon Malpas, Manchester Metropolitan University

Part III: Gender, Sexuality and Class
9. Anglo-Saxon Women, Tolkien's Women - Jennifer Neville, Royal Holloway, University of London
10. Masculinity - Holly A Crocker, University of Cincinnati
11. Homoeroticism - Dan Griffiths and Esther Saxey, both at University of Sussex
12. Service - Scott Kleinman, California State University, Northridge
Tolkein's Futures
13. Games - Barry Atkins, Manchester Metropolitan University
14. After Tolkien - Roz Kaveney.

[mark12_30]

Oooooooooo!!!!! Will littlemanpoet take the bait and purchase The History Of Smith Of Wooton major? Or will he resist to the last, desperately defending the mystery and thus the enchantment?

Ooooo!!!!!!!!!

...Iwonder if he'd leave the Downs altogether rather than risk losing Smith.

Ummmm.... Davem, ya wanna delete that section?

[Parmawen]

I know another new book out by Tolkien is Roverandom (I think I might have misspelled/butchered the name of it) It was a bed-time story for his son Christopher that's now being published. I read a bit of it...it's quite cute actually!!!

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Some of you may remember a now somewhat hoary thread (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=2458&highlight=Back+School) in which Dininziliel and I discussed the intended publication of Tolkien's two translations of Beowulf. According to their editor, Professor Michael Drout, the prose translation was due to be published last year and the verse version, which I'm sure will be of interest to fans of Tolkien, should be released this year. The prose translation never appeared and the release of the verse translation seems ever more doubtful. I may have found out why.

Not long ago, my M.A. supervisor ran into Professor Drout at a conference. Apparently his permission to print the work has been withdrawn by the Tolkien estate. I don't know why that is, but it was suggested to me that the estate's executor might be hoping for a more lucrative offer from another source. Hopefully that's just a rumour and Professor Drout, who is himself a respected Old English scholar, will be allowed to publish eventually. I would hope that the estate can be persuaded that a philological work such as this should be edited by an established philologist, and that in this case the potential scholarly kudos should outweigh any hypothetical cash. I would also hope that however matters transpire we shall see the Tolkien Beowulf on the shelves very soon.

[mark12_30]

I would also hope that however matters transpire we shall see the Tolkien Beowulf on the shelves very soon.

Here, here.

[Lalwendë]

I saw The Lord of the Rings - A Reader's Companion (http://http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/000720907X/qid=1129579204/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_11_2/026-6638834-6561228) in Waterstone's on Friday. Did I buy it? Of course... It's surprisingly out in paperback already, and is cheap too. It matches a new trilogy paperback set in white covers. There is also a new one volume in a nice 'gold' cover.

It would have been the perfect book for accompanying the CbC discussions, as it runs through each chapter, including appendices; though I must admit I've actually preferred not having a scholarly tome around sometimes. ;) It may be very useful for going back to older discussions though, and will also be a help in any general threads which might come up. The book basically details all the changes in the new edition so you can pinpoint where the differences lie; but not only does it do this, it also considers any interesting points in each chapter, whether with notes from Tolkien's papers and other writings, or with excerpts from critical works.

It also has the 'Nomenclature' or translators' guide to names in LotR - this was written by Tolkien for translators to help them in their work and was available in an old edition of Tolkien Compass (much sought after on e-bay), but not in the most recent edition. Another extra in the book is the missing part of the letter to Milton Waldman which was left out of Letters.

Well worth buying.

I've also just got the More People's Guide To JRR Tolkien by TheOneRing.net - this looks interesting. It has Q&As with Verlyn Flieger and Karen Wynn Fonstad among others and the usual mix of articles.

[Lalwendë]

Not strictly speaking a book, nor is it Tolkien, but I don't know where else to put it and it will no doubt be of interest to some 'Downers....

I've just got a Christmas issue of Radio Times and it includes a free CD - a new dramatisation of CS Lewis's Prince Caspian. This is part 1 and the next two issues will have the final two parts, apparently. The CD also has CD-ROM content from the Narnia film.

It's the issue with a Christmassy TARDIS on the cover (and 10 page Doctor Who 'special', something else not to be sniffed at). ;)

[davem]

Another interesting new Tolkien book out in April from Oxford University Press:
The Ring of Words (http://www.oup.co.uk/isbn/0-19-861069-6)

[davem]

Update on Ring of Words. It should be published by now (in the UK at least) & looks to be the most important work on Tolkien since Garth's Tolkien & the Great War. You can download a PDF of the Preface here (http://www.oup.co.uk/isbn/0-19-861069-6)

[zifnab]

I hope this new-fangled innovative onslaught of revised, reissued, reorganized, revamped and redressed pieces of literature doesn't turn into a materialistic juggernaut of business associates that see the color green in their eyes, as they find a scrap of paper under a chair, somewhere in Europe, and turn it into a 487 page history of why Tolkien considered Bombadil to be Jesus Christs twin brother.
Just cause it's got a shiny new leather cover, and one fact out of forty three right, doesn't mean we should run out and gooble it up as if we were all jabberwockies. But hey...I aint saying that I'm no optimist. ;)

Sometimes I gotta take a break and read some Vance or Wolfe, to appreciate the soothing flow of the old Ronald Reuel River to guide my thoughts for me.

But don't listen to me, I can't even hear myself.

[davem]

Zifnab. I understand your point & sympathise with it. However, Ring of Words is one of the most fascinating books on Tolkien I've ever read. It covers his time at the OED, & offers some fascinating insights into his approach to language. It also gives detailed etymologies of a hundred words he uses in the books & explores in depth the way he used them. The book has received high praise from Wayne Hammond & is, as I stated, up there with Garth's biography & Flieger's recent 'Interrupted Music' – imo.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

It sounds like interesting stuff to me. Good to know that you have read it, davem, and that you enjoyed it to boot! I will have to ponder a purchase now.

[davem]

Very important book on The Hobbit: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0007235550/qid%3D1148920816/203-7420348-4703108

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Looks like another good one. Interesting to see in the description that Tolkien was thinking of making TH more in the style of LotR.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Davem,

Thanks so much for that link.

Some comments about the Baggins book. I have been waiting for this almost 20 years! It's my understanding the job was first delegated to Taum Santoski (an American who had ties to the Marquette collection where the manuscripts are). I know he was working on it way back in the 1980s. I believe the task was actually delegated to him by Christopher Tolkien, who decided not to do The Hobbit when he took up the history of middle-earth.

Santoski died from cancer in 1991 (an early, tragic death), and the Baggins book was then delegated to John Rateliff, who also had ties to Marquette. The only interview I've ever seen with Rateliff on the net is here. (http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?int_dnd30_Rateliff) He has an "interesting" background. I believe he went to Marquette and earned a doctorate there because of the presence of the Tolkien manuscipts. Apparently he earns a living by working with roleplaying games like D & D, Wizards of the Coast, etc. ! (He was also connected with Decipher's Lord of the Rings game, which was intentionally geared more to the books than other rpgs.)

For years, they kept pushing back the publication date of this book so I am surprised and happy to see that it's actually going to come out. I had gotten to the point where I was beginning to think it would never see the light of day.

Here is Rateliff's description (from the interview above) of the contents of this book:

The big project, which I've been working on for years and will finally be sending to the publisher near the end of this year, is a book called The History of The Hobbit . It's rather along the lines of Christopher Tolkien's editions that make up the History of Middle-Earth series (which I highly recommend if you haven't read them): an edition of the original manuscript of The Hobbit with extensive commentary on how Mr. Baggins' story fits into Tolkien's legendarium. It's a big book filled with the entire text of Tolkien's first draft, along with short essays about everything from rings of invisibility or Tolkien's spiders to a detailed account of just when Tolkien wrote the book (which can actually be reconstructed from available evidence to within a month or two on either end). I hope people will like it when it finally sees the light of day.

If he's really done this, it will be amazing! What makes this book especially interesting is that it has the personal blessing of Christopher Tolkien. Before the reading copy was sent to the publisher, it was submitted to Christopher to comment: May 3, 2006 blog entry. (http://shellyinseattle.livejournal.com/)

Davem (or anyone else) -- if you know anything more about Rateliff, what's in his book, or the history of this title, please let me know. I have been following this story since the eighties, but it's always been kind of elusive. Let's just hope publication isn't delayed beyond September.

[davem]

Let's just hope publication isn't delayed beyond September.

Well, Amazon UK on the link gives publication as May 8th next year. Of course, that could be wrong, but as next year is the 70th anniversary of the publication of TH I suspect its likely. The only edition I'm aware of is the one in the link, published by Harper Collins here in the UK. Don't know if its being published in the US, so anyone outside the UK may have to get it on import. I don't think Houghton Mifflin have published a US edition of the recent SoWM edited by Flieger either.

As far as I'm aware the only thing CT has written specifically on the development of TH is the Introductory essay he wrote for this recent edition of TH: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/000711835X/qid=1149010905/sr=8-16/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i16_xgl/203-7420348-4703108
(16 pages long with colour plates of manuscript pages - also including a fold-out Thror's map with the moon-runes printed in reverse on the back as Tolkien wished, so that when the map in held up to the light they show through- like magic!).

EDIT found this:

In a paper by John Rateliff, given in October 2004 and published about
a month ago, it is also stated the forthcoming publishing of The
History of the Hobbit. John Rateliff even cites a section or chapter
by name:

"It can hardly be coincidence that as late as 1940, when writing the
opening chapter of The Hobbit, Tolkien felt free to include not only
references to Beren,... [more of his mythology]... but also to the Gobi
Desert, Hindu Kush, and "the Wild were-Worms of the Chinese" as past of
Bilbo's world. (40)

40. See Rateliff, "The Pryftan Fragment", in _The History of The
Hobbit_, forthcomming."

And in bibliography it appears as:

Rateliff, John D. The history of the Hobbit. London: Harper Collins,
Boston: Houghton Mifflin, forthcoming.

here (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.books.tolkien/browse_thread/thread/de70d587f2fa0c99/a83a6c1d2577242f?l)

Of course, as one of the posters points out first chapter of TH was written long before 1940, so probably a typo (for 1930??). However the 'Wild Were-Worms in the Last Desert' do appear in the published TH.

[Lalwendë]

That all makes me wonder exactly what the story Tolkien told to his own children was like! I imagine it was very different to The Hobbit that we know today.

[Mithalwen]

Another reason I wish CT would tell us more of what he remembers as well as what he has documentary evidence for... there are flashes of dry wit in his annotations that make me think that a memoir would be a fabulous read.....

[Child of the 7th Age]

Mithalwen,

There is supposed to be another book coming out in the fall that has at least some "remembrances", including that of CT. It is J.R.R. Tolkien: Interviews, Reminiscences, and other Essays by Douglas Anderson and Marjorie Burns, Houghton Mifflin Co., to be published October 21, 2007.

Some of the essays and such are "new"; others are interviews and contributions that were done some years ago but weren't widely available. They are said to be "lively and loving testimonials." The book features reminiscences from CT, Priscilla Tolkien, Michael Tolkien, the lexicographer of the OED, Robert Murray (in view of the interesting public letters, I'd like to see this one), Donald Swann, L. Sprague de Camp, Norman Power (?) and Raymond Unwin. They also include the unedited transcript of the BBC interview.

I have my fingers crossed that the October publication date is "real" as it has been pushed back twice before. I am looking forward to seeing this book. I know it's available for pre-order through amazon.com (the U.S. one...I'm not sure about the British).

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

Has anyone heard of this? (http://www.oup.com/uk/catalogue/?ci=9780198610694) It's a new (as in I've only just heard of it) Tolkien book that my English teacher just recommended to me. He had to pre-order his copy though, because it hasn't yet been published in the United States.

[davem]

Has anyone heard of this? (http://www.oup.com/uk/catalogue/?ci=9780198610694) It's a new (as in I've only just heard of it) Tolkien book that my English teacher just recommended to me. He had to pre-order his copy though, because it hasn't yet been published in the United States.

Yeah - I linked to it in post 8 here. I have it. Very good book.

[davem]

More Expense :(

http://www.routledge-ny.com/ref/tolkien/index.html

If anyone wants to treat me my birthday is August 20th, but I don't mind a late present.

[Bêthberry]

More Expense :(

http://www.routledge-ny.com/ref/tolkien/index.html

If anyone wants to treat me my birthday is August 20th, but I don't mind a late present.


I dunno, davem, that price sounds more like a group gift for a wedding present. Any likely BD candidates for that? ;)

[davem]

I dunno, davem, that price sounds more like a group gift for a wedding present. Any likely BD candidates for that? ;)

I'm not sharing it. A man has his priorities!

[Lalwendë]

My Preciousssss

Not far away was his secret bookshelf, of which Lalwende knew nothing, and there in his hiding-place he kept a few wretched oddments, his wallet (a Yorkshireman is careful with his money) and one very beautiful thing, very beautiful, very wonderful. He had a book, a £100 book, a precious book.
"My birthday-present!"he whispered to himself, as he had often done in the endless dark days. "That's what we wants now, yes; we wants it!"

He wanted it because it was a book of power, and if you slipped that book in your hand, you were powerful; only in the full light of Tolkien scholarship could you be seen, and then only by your masterful choice of hard to find Verlyn Flieger quotes, and those would be obscure and confusing.

"My birthday-present! It came to me on my birthday my precious,"so he had always said to himself. But who knows how davem came by that present, ages ago in the old days when such books were still cheap at half the price on e-bay?

...

[narfforc]

Lal, tell Davem to save his money, The Lord of the Grins will be out by then, and at the bargain price of £99.99 he will have a whole penny spare, now you know how excited he will be having saved that huge ammount, so break it to him gently...............


P.S The book looks good I will have to have it before Davem so that I can quote from it, and he won't know..

Gnash Gnash Garrrr..

I can hear him from here to ear.....

[Child of the 7th Age]

$175????

How am I going to come up with that much money? I really do want that book and think it's worth it, but that is extraordinarily expensive!

That list of topics covered is amazing. Click here (http://www.routledge-ny.com/ref/tolkien/thematic.html#scholarship)

Also, the list of contributors...... (http://www.routledge-ny.com/ref/tolkien/contributors.html)

[davem]

[QUOTE=Child of the 7th Age]$175????

How am I going to come up with that much money? I really do want that book and think it's worth it, but that is extraordinarily expensive!

[QUOTE]

Especially as its out just one month after Hammond & Scull's long awaited Companion & Guide (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0007169728/qid=1150446072/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/202-7602835-7342210) :(

[Child of the 7th Age]

And here's another one for your consideration: Tolkien and Shakespeare. (http://www.mcfarlandpub.com/book-2.php?isbn=0-7864-2827-9)

A real bargain....only $35. :p I am not sure what to expect from this title. It could be interesting or very disappointing. I did like the book Janet Croft edited concerning the film adaptation of LotR and her comments on fanfic, but I did not know she had a background in this other area.

[davem]

And this one (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0313325928/qid=1150452266/sr=11-1/ref=sr_11_1/103-7842226-1732600?n=283155)

[Child of the 7th Age]

Davem

I have that Croft book on Middle-earth and war and am just beginning to read it now. I'll let you know my impressions when I finish.

Has anyone read this or do you know anything about it? The Keys of Middle-earth: Discovering Medieval Literature through the Fiction of J.R.R. Tolkien by Stuart Lee, published december 2005, Palgrave MacMillan.

At first glance, I thought it was just another beginner's text that publishes excerpts from medieval lit and tries to tie them in with Tolkien. There are several of those and I could defnitely pass that by. But one of the reviews on UK Amazon mentions that Tolkien's unpublished lecture notes are quoted. I am always interested in texts that give us access to archival material that is either hard to get hold of or even impossible to see because of restrictions on access. Plus Palgrave MacMillan has put out some decent stuff.

Here is one part of the review on this book:,

As well as taking you through some of the basics of medieval literature (Tolkien's academic background of course), what I found fascinating about this book was the material from Tolkien's unpublished lecture notes. This gives a new insight into his work as a scholar, and occasionally (as with the piece about the Rohirrim and their possible link to the Anglo-Saxons) a new insight into his thinking. It really does bridge the gap between his mythology and his studies.....

The link between the A-S and the Rohirrim is definitely mentioned in other places, so I am not sure how significant that reference is. But I am intrigued by his mention of lecture notes, which I've not seen elsewhere. Anyone know anything about these original lecture notes or this particular book?

[davem]

But one of the reviews on UK Amazon mentions that Tolkien's unpublished lecture notes are quoted. I am always interested in texts that give us access to archival material that is either hard to get hold of or even impossible to see because of restrictions on access. Plus Palgrave MacMillan has put out some decent stuff.

Don't know of it. As to the 'unpublished lecture notes', I suspect its referring to Finn & Hengest (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0261103555/qid=1151176097/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_2_1/203-7420348-4703108) , which was edited by Alan Bliss (actually what he did was gather together Tolkien's lecture notes). Downloading the sample from here (http://www.palgrave.com/products/Catalogue.aspx?is=1403946728) (which is mostly the index) it seems that there are lots of references to those notes from F&H.

Don't know if F&H is published in the US, but Harper Collins publish it in the UK.

I've just bought Somme (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0719568633/qid=1151175862/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/203-7420348-4703108) , which has 5 or 6 references to Tolkien, so I'm about too make a start on that (I suspect most of the references come from Garth's book, which is cited in the bibliography).

[Lalwendë]

The other day I found a new book, The Roots of Middle Earth (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0752438565/026-5933193-8954838?v=glance&n=266239&v=glance), written by a Tolkien Society member (and endorsed by them). It's not an earth-shattering read but is very interesting, particularly if anyone is fancying a trip to Brum to find Tolkien's old stamping grounds, and it is filled with lovely old pictures which the author has sourced from postcard fairs, including pics of Sarehole Mill and the Cole valley as it used to look.

This one will likely be of great interest to local history buffs in Birmingham too.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Thanks, Davem.

I see from your link there is a second author and she is a librarian in the Bodleian archives so I am a little more inclined to buy this. (OK, I am biased here, but librarians generally know their collections better than anyone else, including profs and perhaps they did fiddle around in the archives.) US Amazon lists paper copies for about $20.

You may be right about Finn and Hengest and the lecture notes. I don't own that one because the hardcover came out in the eighties in the US by Houghton Mifflin. Those copies are hard to find. The recent paperback was only published in the UK. You can get reasonably priced copies on Amazon U.S. but must pay for shipping from the UK.

One of the nice things is that I live near the Rice University library. They have a decent Tolkien collection because Jane Chance has taught there a number of years and apparently had them build up holdings in that area. Looking for these books sounds like a good excuse for a trip to the library and a day on the Rice campus. I'll post here if I find anything interesting.

[davem]

I haven't read Finn & Hengest - one of the few Tolkien works I don't possess - after picking up Mr Bliss a few weeks back.

If you want the UK edition you can get it for less than $10 including P&P from The Book Depository (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/WEBSITE/WWW/WEBPAGES/search.php?key=finn%20%26%20hengest&by=title). I've used them before & they're very good.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Thanks Davem. The Book Depository is the same source as given in the US Amazon but it looks as if the price is a little lower when you order direct.

[davem]

Re History of The Hobbit by John Rateliff, apparently Houghton Mifflin are to publish the book in September 2007 according to the latest issue of Beyond Bree (haven't read the issue, just seen a report). If true then we in the UK are getting it four months early :)

...er that should be :( I suppose :p

[woznon]

"[QUOTE=Child of the 7th Age]Thanks, Davem.

I see from your link there is a second author and she is a librarian in the Bodleian archives so I am a little more inclined to buy this. (OK, I am biased here, but librarians generally know their collections better than anyone else, including profs and perhaps they did fiddle around in the archives.) US Amazon lists paper copies for about $20."

Actually it is unpublished lecture notes. Tolkien's notes from Oxford (and some from Leeds) are all contained in the Bodleian library. The authors have gone through these and pulled out things mainly relating to his literature lectures/unpublished editions and used them. The piece about the Rohirrim comes from his lectures in a box called A30/1 (?). Anyway it says 'No one would learn anything valid about the 'Anglo-Saxons' from any of my lore, not even that concerning the Rohirrim. I never intended that they should'. The authors argue that this explains Tolkien's reluctance to link the Rohirrim to the Anglo-Saxons - namely he was wearing his lecturer's hat and did not want people to think they could learn about that period of history.

Looking through the book there are lots of quotes from various A29s and A30s which I kind of guess are the boxes in the library.

F&H gets a mention in a chapter on 'The Fight at Balin's Tomb' where the texts presented are 'The Fight at Finnsburg' and something called 'Cynewulf and Cyneheard' (from the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle).


Woz

[Child of the 7th Age]

Woz,

First, welcome to the Downs. I hope you'll stick around.

Secondly, thanks so much for that detailed information. It's very helpful and looks as if it would be worthwhile for me to pick up this book.

_______________

Summer is my time for extra reading. I recently purchased a book The Lord of the Rings, 1954-2004: Scholarship in Honor of Richard E. Blackwelder" published by Marquette University Press. These were papers given at a conference at Marquette in October 2004. I have only delved into the chapters here and there, but the contributors do look interesting: Douglas Anderson, Verlyn Flieger, John Garth, Wayne Hammond, Carl Hostetter, John Rateliffe, T.A. Shippey, Michael Drout and the list goes on.

Has anyone read this collection of essays? Hopefully, I'll let you know what I think after I get further into the book.

[woznon]

No, it's a new one on me. I've read the one from the Oxford symposium many years ago (did Mythlore publish that)? Which was hit and miss. I'll certainly look out for that, thanks.

Woz

[davem]

Now, I'm not sure I should be posting this as I found it on another message board, but its posted by a friend of ours in the Tolkien Society, Alan, who we met up with at Oxonmoot. It was passed to him by Douglas A Anderson & is a press release from Harper Collins

Press Release

Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006
J.R.R. TOLKIEN'S THE CHILDREN OF HÚRIN TO BE PUBLISHED IN 2007

Houghton Mifflin has acquired US rights to publish the first complete
book by J.R.R. Tolkien since the posthumous Silmarillion in 1977 .
HarperCollins UK acquired the project from The Tolkien Estate in a
world rights deal. Presented for the first time as a fully
continuous and standalone story, the epic tale of The Children of
Húrin will reunite fans of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings
with Elves and Men, dragons and Dwarves, and the rich landscape and
characters unique to Tolkien.

The Children of Húrin , begun in 1918, was one of three "Great Tales"
J.R.R. Tolkien worked on throughout his life, though he never
realized his ambition to see it published. Though familiar to many
fans from extracts and references within other Tolkien books, it has
long been assumed that the story would forever remain an "unfinished
tale". Now reconstructed by Christopher Tolkien, painstakingly
editing together the complete work from his father's many drafts,
this book is the culmination of a tireless thirty-year endeavor by
him to bring J.R.R. Tolkien's vast body of unpublished work to a wide
audience.

Christopher Tolkien said: "It has seemed to me for a long time that
there was a good case for presenting my father?s long version of the
legend of the Children of Húrin as an independent work, between its
own covers, with a minimum of editorial presence, and above all in
continuous narrative without gaps or interruptions, if this could be
done without distortion or invention, despite the unfinished state in
which he left some parts of it."

Having drawn the distinctive maps for the original The Lord of the
Rings more than 50 years ago, Christopher has also created a detailed
new map for this book. In addition, it will include a jacket and
color paintings by Alan Lee , illustrator of The Hobbit and The Lord
of the Rings Centenary Edition and Oscar ® -winning designer of the
film trilogy.

The Lord of the Rings was already acclaimed worldwide as the most
popular book of the 20th Century before the blockbuster films in
2001-3 broke new ground and inspired millions more to read J.R.R.
Tolkien's books -- an additional 50 million copies were sold, leaving
new fans wanting more. The Children of Húrin will be published by
HarperCollins UK in April 2007, and on the same day in the United
States by Houghton Mifflin.

Victoria Barnsley , CEO and Publisher of HarperCollins Publishers UK
said: "This epic story of adventure, tragedy, fellowship and heroism
stands as one of the finest expressions of J.R.R. Tolkien?s skills as
a storyteller. With a narrative as dramatic and powerful as anything
contained within The Lord of the Rings , it can now be read and
enjoyed as Tolkien originally intended, and will doubtless be a
revelation for millions of fans around the world."
Janet Silver , Vice President and Publisher of Houghton Mifflin,
said, "As J.R.R. Tolkien's original American publisher, dating back
to The Hobbit , we are extremely proud to be bringing this project
to Tolkien's devoted readership in the United States. Christopher
Tolkien has done a great service in realizing his father's vision for
The Children of Hurin."

[Formendacil]

Saw the two threads in Books before I got here... so I'm crossposting my reply:

I... hardly know what to think here.

First of all, there is a certain incredulity. I mean, this almost feels as if it goes against the grain of everything Christopher Tolkien has done or said in the entire HoME. But, on the other hand, it seems to harken back to the earlier days of publishing the Silmarillion, when he took a bit more artistic license, and filled out some scrappy texts.

But still... after all these years?

As near as I can tell, assuming the story is true, we're basically just looking at a published version of the Narn I Chín Húrin- with the middle chunk that was missing in Unfinished Tales filled in.

Personally, I'm inclined to think this a good thing, if it's true, but hardly a necessary one. And I'm really, really confused as to... Why?

[narfforc]

Personally I would like Christopher to have done a re-edit of both The Silmarillion and parts of Unfinished Tales combining both with any further work he could have found. If all we are to get is what we already have, I would feel slightly cheated.

I am not saying this is the case, but between The Sil/UT/HoMe what else can he possibly be doing?

[davem]

My assumption on what it is likely to contain is, apart from the new map CT has created for it & the Alan Lee cover & illustrations, the whole Narn as we have it in The Sil & UT, a Prologue setting out the context of the story & hopefully the Wanderings of Hurin, either incorporated into the main text or as an Appendix.

I expect it to find its way to the top of the best seller lists - & it will be nice to see one of Tolkien's 'darker' works easily available to the general reader.

First of all, there is a certain incredulity. I mean, this almost feels as if it goes against the grain of everything Christopher Tolkien has done or said in the entire HoME. But, on the other hand, it seems to harken back to the earlier days of publishing the Silmarillion, when he took a bit more artistic license, and filled out some scrappy texts.

Well, CT has carte blanche as regards his father's work. Lalwende has given us the relevant part of Tolkien's will:

’Upon Trust to allow my son Christopher full access to the same* in order that he may act as my Literary Executor with full power to publish edit alter rewrite or complete any work of mine which may be unpublished at my death or to destroy the whole or any part or parts of any such unpublished works as he in his absolute discretion may think fit and subject thereto’

*unpublished works

The amount of work CT has put in over the years, culminating in this volume, is something we should all be grateful for. Hopefully it won't be too expensive - we've got Rateliff's 'Mr Baggins' out the following month...

[Formendacil]

Well, CT has carte blanche as regards his father's work. Lalwende has given us the relevant part of Tolkien's will.

I think we probably all know that... what with all the woefully ruminating about what "could have been", had Christopher Tolkien taken a more "liberal" approach to publishing his father's writing. I'm just saying that this seems more in character with his publication of the Silmarillion and somewhat in Unfinished Tales twenty-five years ago, when he willingly modified and added to (albeit sparingly) his father's texts; rather than being in the spirit of the meticulous presentation of texts that we've seen in the HoME since.

Which makes me quite excited. A complete text, from Christopher Tolkien, is bound to be good. And coming AFTER his years working on the HoME, it should be able to avoid some of the more avoidable problems of filling in the gaps- as evidenced by the "Fall of Doriath" portions of the published Silmarillion. So I'm really curious to see how the "Nargothrond" chunk in the middle of the Narn is played out- whether we see much an expansion or addition to the published Silmarillion text. And, like you Davem, I'm curious (and hopeful) to see if "The Wanderings of Húrin" will make it in- and especially curious to see how much editting, and of what nature, goes on there.

Overall, I'm really excited about this... very excited! But it seems very "out of the blue" and a bit out of keeping with what Christopher Tolkien has done over the past 25 years or so. Is it perhaps an attempt to get out an "official" completed Narn- before Christopher dies and the texts go into the public domain? Or is it a resurgence late in life of a subcreatorly urge?

Or what?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I dropped in at Michael Drout's blog just now, and lo: his latest entry is about this very release. Wormtalk and Slugspeak (http://wormtalk.blogspot.com/2006/09/j.html)

[Child of the 7th Age]

This is not a Tolkien book per se but a fiction book by James Owen with a print run of 100,000 copies called "Here There Be Dragons". It was released in the past few days. This one is certainly different! It features Tolkien, Williams and Lewis as characters in a 336 page young adult fantasy.

Here is a general description from the Tolkien News website:


The book brings together three strangers -- John, Jack and Charles -- in London during World War I, where they become entrusted with the Imaginarium Geographica, an atlas of all the lands that have ever existed in myth and legend, fable and fairy tale." They must band together and travel to various mythical lands to battle an evil that is threatening both worlds (the real and imaginary).

As it turns out, the three main characters are J.R.R. Tolkien, C.S. Lewis and Charles Williams.

Movie rights were optioned for this even before publication. They were picked up by Warner Brothers and will be produced by David Heyman, who also did the Harry Potter movies. The publisher Simon and Schuster plans to release six more books in the series: one each October for the coming six years.

I was curious enough to order it, which may be a big mistake! We'll see...... It did have a good review from the creator of Ender's Game.

Has anyone picked this up to read? See here (http://www.amazon.com/There-Dragons-Chronicles-Imaginarium-Geographica/dp/1416912274/sr=8-1/qid=1160065946/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-3833260-5483964?ie=UTF8&s=books) on Amazon for more information.

[zifnab]

"It features Tolkien, Williams and Lewis as characters in a 336 page young adult fantasy. "


Now that sounds like it would be a fun read!

Movie Rights? I'm sick and tired of Hollywood and any other 'Making Magic Movies into Mayhem' companys jumping onto this bandwagon.

[piosenniel]

I haunt the Young Adult Fantasy sections of the local bookstores - I picked this up at Barnes and Noble a few days ago and read through a number of chapters. I was drawn in by the description on the flyleaf, the idea of there being such an Atlas, and intrigued by the title.

My first impressions is that it seems 'thinly' written - that it moved forward like a screenplay, more than a richly written and described story.

Did like the illustrations in it.

I opted not to get it - at least until it comes out in paperback. Would really like to hear someone else's review of it - which might encourage me to try a re-read sooner rather than later.

~*~ Pio

[Child of the 7th Age]

Pio,

Interesting that you describe this as more like a "screenplay" than a detailed storyline. Since the rights were optioned off so early, I just wonder if this is what they had in mind all along.

I picked it up for $12 on Amazon and will report back what I think of it.

[Child of the 7th Age]

The Tolkien Companion and Guide by Christina Scull and Wayne G. Hammond (now up to 2300 pages!) is finally supposed to surface in Great Britain on November 2, and shortly thereafter in the U.S. We have been waiting a long time for this. See here for the announcement in Tolkien News. (http://tolkiennews.net/article.php?story=20061003165011541) This time the announcement is straight from Hammond and Scully so it's probably right!

Here is a description of what's coming: review. (http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/companionandguide.htm)

[Mithalwen]

I think we probably all know that... what with all the woefully ruminating about what "could have been", had Christopher Tolkien taken a more "liberal" approach to publishing his father's writing. I'm just saying that this seems more in character with his publication of the Silmarillion and somewhat in Unfinished Tales twenty-five years ago, when he willingly modified and added to (albeit sparingly) his father's texts; rather than being in the spirit of the meticulous presentation of texts that we've seen in the HoME since.

Which makes me quite excited. A complete text, from Christopher Tolkien, is bound to be good. And coming AFTER his years working on the HoME, it should be able to avoid some of the more avoidable problems of filling in the gaps- as evidenced by the "Fall of Doriath" portions of the published Silmarillion. So I'm really curious to see how the "Nargothrond" chunk in the middle of the Narn is played out- whether we see much an expansion or addition to the published Silmarillion text. And, like you Davem, I'm curious (and hopeful) to see if "The Wanderings of Húrin" will make it in- and especially curious to see how much editting, and of what nature, goes on there.

Overall, I'm really excited about this... very excited! But it seems very "out of the blue" and a bit out of keeping with what Christopher Tolkien has done over the past 25 years or so. Is it perhaps an attempt to get out an "official" completed Narn- before Christopher dies and the texts go into the public domain? Or is it a resurgence late in life of a subcreatorly urge?

Or what?

My guess is that when CT assembled the Silmarillion, it was never anticipated that there would be so much appetite among Tolkien's fans for unfinished and many drafted tales and so he got the work his father so much wanted published in a coherent, if as he himself admits, less than perfect version. Also I think I remember reading that papers had been transferred to Marquette in a fairly haphazard way and he may not have had access to everything at the time he did the Silmarillion. Now that CT has done "his duty" and edited as a scholar with minimum personal input so much of the raw materials, maybe he is now devoting his remaining time to assembling tales from the Silmarillion as perhaps he wishes he had done origianally, and with the benefit of the work on HoME.

[Child of the 7th Age]

I was rummaging around on amazon and was pleased to learn that The Marvellous Land of Snergs has recently been reissued in an inexpensive paperback edition: here. (http://www.amazon.com/Marvellous-Land-Snergs-E-Wyke-Smith/dp/0486452557/sr=1-1/qid=1162369640/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-1943268-8206434?ie=UTF8&s=books)

For the past few years, it's been completely impossible to buy this book at a reasonable price. Even battered paperback copies were selling for close to $100. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1882968042/ref=lp_g_2/002-1943268-8206434) .

This is a fun children's story, and it's very easy to see how some of the characteristics of the snergs rubbed off on the hobbits.....

[piosenniel]

Thank you , thank you, Child!!

I found I could order it at my local Barnes and Noble.

Looking forward to reading it as is my daughter.

~*~ Pio

:D

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Thanks for the info, Child! I'm going to be putting an Amazon list together in the next few days (the best way for me to be able to get English language books) and this will definitely go into my shopping cart.

[Lalwendë]

The Scull/Hammond Companion & Guide is now out - came out Monday and was being despatched last weekend. davem's copy (ordered a long time ago when the world was young) is however currently languishing in our local post office as the opening hours coincide with working hours. However I am hopeful it will be rescued later today. The delay was unfortunately due to illness. But this book (well, set of books) looks to be a defining work and a 'must -have' and I am thankful it comes in two volumes or there would have been scrapping in our house. :eek:

[Aiwendil]

I've long suspected that post offices' and banks' hours are deliberately designed to prevent anyone from using them.

Thanks for the update - I think I'll be putting the Hammond/Scull guide on my Hannukah/Christmas list. I'd be interested to hear what you think of it when (if!) you manage to wrest it from the post office.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Thanks, Lalwende. I'm also looking forward to this and have had a pre-order for several years. It will be longer coming to my house because of the distance it has to travel. I ordered from the UK because the one published by Houghton Mifflin isn't expected to come out till late December.

The other huge volume that's already out in the U.S. is the Tolkien Encyclopedia edited by Michael Drout, which has a long list of topics and contributors. Unfortunately, the encyclopedia costs $199. I am hoping that the local university will pick it up.

[Lalwendë]

Well by happy coincidence the need to collect the car after repairs, an excess of worked hours and the opening times of the local post office all happened at the same time this afternoon so the books were retrieved.

I've spent the past few hours absorbed in them (have put them down now as their rightful owner will soon be home and he will want to read them ;) ) and I can honestly say they are excellent. Thorough is the word that springs to mind right away. Fascinating is the second one. One volume is taken up with a day-by-day chronology of Tolkien's life (you may, if old and silly enough, be able to see what Tolkien was doing the day you were born) including who he was writing to, what he was lecturing in, who he visited etc, plus extensive information on his family, and a wallet-tingling bibliography of all his works (I hear eBay calling...).

The other volume is a huge A-Z of themes, people and places (and other things too) associated with Tolkien, e.g. sections on H Rider Haggard (and an interesting consideration of how LotR has echoes from She, a fave of Tolkien's), the Lancashire Fusiliers, Fairy Tales, GK Chesterton (Tolkien got fed up with Chesterton apparently), George MacDonald (likewise he got fed up with MacDonald and Phantastes 'afflicted me with profound dislike'). We also learn that Tolkien once played Thomas The Tank Engine in the street outside Merton College, wandered the streets of Oxford dressed in a bearskin rug and had a swimming race wearing a panama hat and smoking a pipe.

I see its on offer on Amazon so it could be a good time to buy it! It will keep you quiet for days, this one, and after that you will have lots of things to say.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Oooh, thanks for the info on that one, Lal! I immediately added it to my Amazon order; it will take a couple of weeks, but now I have even more to which I can look forward!

[Lalwendë]

Oooh, thanks for the info on that one, Lal! I immediately added it to my Amazon order; it will take a couple of weeks, but now I have even more to which I can look forward!

I wouldn't like to be your postman! Carrying it back from the post office has left my arms a few inches longer due to the ridiculously big box it was in.

If anyone has the three volume hardback set of HoME (with the black dustjackets, and which I don't touch as they're far too heavy for everyday reading - I prefer paperbacks ;) ) it looks very good next to them on the shelves.

Next comes Children of Hurin (which also will come in a special limited edition) and then Mr Baggins, so it's time to reinforce those bookshelves...

If these all arrive in time for Christmas, Esty, you will have plenty to keep you busy! ;)

[davem]

There's a new hardback edition of TH http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hobbit-There-Back-Again-Anniversary/dp/0261103288/sr=8-2/qid=1171059863/ref=pd_ka_2/202-8565820-0452647?ie=UTF8&s=books out now to celebrate the 70th anniversary of publication, designed to match the recent 'uniform' (matte dustjacket) edition by Harper Collins of FotR, TT, RotK, TS & UT & in October there's a 25th anniversary edition of Mr Bliss.

[Kuruharan]

I think this is supposed to be the final cover of the Children of Hurin.

http://tolkiengateway.net/w/images/8/85/The_Children_of_Hurin_cover.jpg

I'm not a tremendous fan of Alan Lee's work, but I have to admit I quite like that picture.

[davem]

I think this is supposed to be the final cover of the Children of Hurin.

http://tolkiengateway.net/w/images/8/85/The_Children_of_Hurin_cover.jpg

I'm not a tremendous fan of Alan Lee's work, but I have to admit I quite like that picture.

Must praise Alan Lee's choice of cover picture - the 'old' one (with Glaurung crossing the Narog) was a bit too 'sword & sorcery' for me, & gave the wrong impression of the work. This one fits a work of great literature. (And not an emu or Christmas tree in sight ):p

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I'm going to miss the impressionistic approach. Everything's so literal and representational in the world of Tolkien art; we need the fresh perspective offered by illustrators who haven't had their interpretations coloured by reading the books. ;)

I'm glad that they chose this picture of Turin. The depiction of him killing Glaurung tended to reduce him to that one event, whereas that's arguably one of his less important acts . However, this does tend to focus the attention rather on Turin than the other players in this drama. Perhaps some depiction of Turin's first meeting with Nienor might have fitted the bill better, although that's just nitpicking.

It's good to think that the Dragon Helm will be gracing bookshelves in full fig rather than as bare-armed action hero: that depiction lends him a dignity that some of his other guises lack.

[davem]

Fans of OFS may be interested in this new edition:


New (or at least so far unpublished) stuff included....here (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tolkien-Fairy-Stories-Verlyn-Flieger/dp/0007244665/ref=sr_1_1/026-3247634-6064465?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176149749&sr=1-1)

[Lalaith]

Children of Hurin is currently #3 in the amazon.co.uk top 100, but #45 at amazon.com...

[Lalwendë]

Children of Hurin is currently #3 in the amazon.co.uk top 100, but #45 at amazon.com...

It must have something to do with our love of a good queue. ;)

[Lalwendë]

Ooops, I just got really excited at seeing this and forgot that I'd already read it on here first!

Too much over-excitement, obviously!

It's like ten Christmasses happening all at once! :D

*runs off to find some tranquilisers*

[Lalaith]

Oh, I've already contributed to CoH's amazon uk ranking....

[Lalwendë]

Oh, I've already contributed to CoH's amazon uk ranking....

Me too :D I've ordered the special edition from them because it was cheaper! But I shall also be buying a regular edition from the shop in person to make ruddy well sure I have a copy - will be waiting outside the bookshop at 9am before going to work!

[Child of the 7th Age]

It's a long way from #3, but the ranking on U.S. Amazon has now crept up to #26: here. (http://www.amazon.com/Children-Hurin-J-R-R-Tolkien/dp/0618894640/ref=ed_oe_h/103-9594774-6716623?ie=UTF8&qid=1176292750&sr=1-13)

[Child of the 7th Age]

Amid all the much deserved excitement and hoopla about Children of Hurin, I wanted to give a brief nod to another book that I don't believe anyone has mentioned: The Company they Keep: C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien as Writers in Community by Diana Pavlac Glyer (Kent State University Press). I recently purchase it from Amazon and am about half way through. University press books can be deadly dull, but this one is enjoyable to read and has things to say I've never seen anywhere before.

Glyer challenges the standard interpretation that Lewis, Tolkien, Williams, Barfield, and others had very little influence on one another's work. (The latter is clearly the impression left by Carpenter in his biographies.) The author has pieced together diaries, letters, and unpublished manuscripts and also compared rough drafts with final products to show just how the Inklings (including JRRT) were able to challenge, correct and encourage one another. There are excerpts from unpublished materials that haven't appeared in print before. And she deals head on with comments by the authors themselves that "X" or "Y" were completely incapable of being influenced (sound familiar? :D ).

Some of her ideas are questionable. For example, she suggests the Lord of the Rings might have been more like the Silmarillion in structure and style if it weren't for the critique and encouragement of the Inklings. This is a stretch -- she never even considers the role of the Hobbit in this process. And she has a better handle on Lewis than Tolkien. But overall this book says some interesting things.

For an interview with Glyer by the Tolkien Library, see here. (http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/The_Company_They_Keep.php) There's also a very positive review by Verlyn Flieger that's partially quoted at Amazon.com.

[Child of the 7th Age]

I'm not quite sure where updates on Mr. Baggins should go but I thought I would post this here.

There is a great interview with John Rateliff here. (http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/History_of_the_Hobbit_PART1.php) The most intriguing quote to me was this one. (The italics are mine.)

Q: Why do you think Christopher didn't go in to the Hobbit in his HoME?
Partly because he was in the middle of such an enormous task -- try counting the number of pages in HME.VI-XII sometime. Partly because he believed Carpenter's claim that the H. ms was very close to the published book and, more importantly, that THE HOBBIT was not originally part of the Legendarium.

Q: How you feel about this?
I think I've made a good case that it always was, from the first chapter, part of the Legendarium.

On a "gut level", I've personally felt this way for some time, although with no special "proof". I am also assuming most people would disagree. Despite the obvious disparities in tone, detail, etc between LotR and Hobbit, I have always felt that the Hobbit was connected with the Legendarium from an early date. I will be extremely curious to see what evidence Rateliff brings forth for this position and how far back he pushes it. This could be interesting! I have a copy on order from Amazon, U.K., since the U.S. edition won't be out for some time. Whoever manages to get their hands on this first (it won't be me, with the slowness of the post), I'd like to hear what you think.

[davem]

On a "gut level", I've personally felt this way for some time, although with no special "proof". I am also assuming most people would disagree. Despite the obvious disparities in tone, detail, etc between LotR and Hobbit, I have always felt that the Hobbit was connected with the Legendarium from the very beginning.

I'd like to see it too - I tend to go with CT & Flieger & count it very much as 'secondary' literature, not quite outside the Legendarium, but not a central part of it either. The idea that it started out as part of the Legendarium is clearly false, as up to that point the Legendarium ended with the fall of Morgoth at the end of what became The First Age (well, unless you want to include the Eriol/Aelfwine stuff about how the tales were transmitted. The Third Age didn't exist as a concept when TH was written.

Now, if he's arguing that Tolkien wanted it to be part of the Legendarium, I'd agree - why else would he have attempted a more 'grown up' version in the 60's?

Of course, it depends how precisely, or loosely, you define 'Legendarium'. I think I could make a 'good case' that Smith is part of the Legendarium (or, as anyone who knows me at all will know, an equally 'good case' that Smith had nothing at all to do with it.)

Anyway, its out next week, so we'll be able to see how 'good' Rateliff's case actually is....

[Child of the 7th Age]

Although I instinctively prefer the Hobbit as we now have it with either the original or revised Riddles chapter, I would be curious to see the scraps of this grown up version. Tolkien gave up on that before the group reached Rivendell, so he obviously felt something wasn’t working.

Regarding how much and to what extent the Hobbit is tied to the Legendarium, I feel it’s not an “either/or” but "how much" and "when". Those same terms could even be applied to the LotR, although in the latter case it happened at some point during the initial composition/revisions.

Unless Rateliff has some evidence we’ve never seen or some way of slipping inside the author’s head, it would be extremely difficult to make an argument that in 1928-1932, when Tolkien told stories to his children, he consciously had a later age of the Legendarium in mind. If Rateliff could “prove” that point, it would turn a lot of accepted truths upside down. Still, the creation of the Hobbit was not confined to those few years, but was a gradual process beginning in 1928 (or before) and going all the way into the fifties when he did his Riddle revisions, possibly even to the sixties if you count the aborted “adult” revision none of us have seen. At some point in that lengthy creative process, the Hobbit was pulled in. My feeling, based on absolutely nothing other than instinct, says sooner rather than later. In that sense, the Hobbit was little different from LotR. In neither case did the author know from the beginning that he was dealing with the Legendarium. When he recognized what had happened to his hobbit sequel, he must have been acutely, even uncomfortably aware, of what this meant for the "original" tale.

As you mention, there is some early indication he was already thinking beyond the First Age. The origins of Aelfwine go back to a poem published in 1924, and Tolkien was definitely starting to think in terms of “later ages” with his work on Aelfwine, the Lost Road, and Numenor in 1936 (to some extent revisions of that earlier poem). This was the same time he worked on and submitted the maps for Hobbit. These were the ones showing the lands between the Misty Mountains and Mirkwood. I’ve always wondered if the whole process of both the LotR and the Hobbit both being pulled into the Legendarium wasn’t expressed through concrete geography, the problem of establishing a “mental map” of Middle Earth, as much as through abstract thinking. In any case, it will be interesting to see what he’s come up with and see how convincing it is. And I admit I am sympathetic and hope that I will not be disappointed!

[davem]

Well, just had one of those annoying experiences - Waterstones have volume 1 on the shelves, but I have the book on order from Amazon. Looks interesting - matte dustjacket like the recent Tolkien hardbacks, few illustrations. Didn't have time for a proper look, unfortunately.

[Mithalwen]

Amazon tells me I must wait another week for my copy but not why :(

[Aiwendil]

Child: Thanks for the link. I've been looking forward to Mr. Baggins for a long time (actually I've always been rather more excited about this than about CoH). I also find Rateliff's claim very interesting. It has been my feeling as well that The Hobbit is a veritable piece of the Legendarium; actually, it seems to me that it is a 'major work', to be classed with LotR and the Silmarillion rather than with 'Giles' and 'Roverandom'. Sometimes I wonder if my view has to do with the fact that The Hobbit was my first glimpse of Middle-earth and I still tend to think of LotR as a sequel. In any case, I'm eager to see what Rateliff has to say.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Aiwendil,

That is my hope as well.

______________

Concerning the UK delivery situation... I don't know why but UK Amazon has this ominous note on their screen for volume I of history of the hobbit:

Availability: Usually dispatched within 4 to 6 weeks.

I am thinking this is a mistake and they just haven't updated their listing. Just to be sure, I ordered several days ago from a smaller seller who promised to ship immediately.

[davem]

I am thinking this is a mistake and they just haven't updated their listing. Just to be sure, I ordered several days ago from a smaller seller who promised to ship immediately.

Well, I've just checked my order & it says:

Delivery #1: Dispatching Soon We are preparing these items for dispatch and this part of your order cannot be cancelled or changed.

Another case of Harper Collins underestimating demand??

[Child of the 7th Age]

Another case of Harper Collins underestimating demand??

You may be right, though it may be UK Amazon not locking down enough copies in advance? The smaller marketplace shops are making a point of saying that they can ship immediately.

[davem]

Rateliff mentions in the interview:

Q: I find myself intrigued by your claim of the strong connections between The Hobbit and Silmarillion. Care to provide any examples, or do I have to wait for publication?
Well, there's the mention of Beren and Luthien in the draft of Chapter One, for starters. The wizard says they don't need to worry about seeking revenge on the Necromancer because Beren and Tinuviel have already thrown down his dark tower. That's a pretty explicit reference to the events of 'The Lay of Leithian', and a pretty good indication to me that Bilbo's world and their world were thought of as one and the same from the very beginning.

Well, to me the mention of Beren & Luthien is hardly a 'pretty good indication' that TH was intended to be part of the Legendarium from the start. If we take a reference to B&L as 'evidence' of that, then we have to take similar references to 'Faerie in the West' as evidence that Roverandom was intended to take place in the same world as TH & LotR. Without LotR TH would have no connection to the Legendarium beyond a few shared names. All the reference to B&L indicates is that Tolkien made use of the Legendarium as it then existed to provide background for the story. And a more significant point is that Tolkien removed the reference.

[davem]

I've got it. Only had chance for a quick flick through so far. Not impressed with the quality to be honest. It doesn't have sewn in signatures, but the pages are glued together like a paperback & stuck in a hard cover.

And, believe it or not, this 476 page book doesn't have an Index. The only reference I can find to Beren & Luthien so far is that they 'broke his (the Necromancer's) power'

[Mithalwen]

Mine arrived this morning but I only got as far as the intro before life got in the way.

The binding is disappointing becasue although teh cloth back will endure better than paper it does make a hb first ed relatively ephemeral ...

since this is effectively one work in 2 volumes I humbly suggest that as with LOTR the index will be in PT 2? Inconvenient in the interim I admit, but not unreasonable.

[davem]

since this is effectively one work in 2 volumes I humbly suggest that as with LOTR the index will be in PT 2? Inconvenient in the interim I admit, but not unreasonable.

Well, maybe. It still means you'll need both volumes to hand to check what's in volume 1, so it'll be a bit inconvenient still. And it smacks laziness, or lack of care on the part of HC. All the volumes of HoM-e have separate indexes. And the quality of the binding is appalling for a book costing £20. This is a scholarly work & many copies will end up in Libraries & get a lot of use. I can see a lot of them ending up broken in half down the spine. This sort of book needs to open flat.

Actually, this is the kind of thing that needs to be released on CD rom (as does HoM-e) but that's another discussion.

Anyway, I've just had an email from Amazon informing me that delivery on the 70th anniversary edition of The Hobbit has been put back to July.

[Mithalwen]

The binding is annoying .... I am planning to take up book binding (still at the reading stage) partly becasue I have many old and indeed ancient volumes that need recovering and DIY is the economic option. Even very old volumes can be rebound relatively easily if they are sewn but this somewhat ironically named "perfect binding" cannot be so restored. Disappointing but alas in general hardbacks are a produced at a loss and so they cut corners. SinceI only paid £12 - barely more than a full price paperback, I am not too bothered. It was n impulse buy when I ordered Hurin and I don't know I would have got it if it had been a lot more ... maybe waited for the PB ..... but I think I shall enjoy it..

[davem]

. Disappointing but alas in general hardbacks are a produced at a loss and so they cut corners. SinceI only paid £12 - barely more than a full price paperback, I am not too bothered. It was n impulse buy when I ordered Hurin and I don't know I would have got it if it had been a lot more ... maybe waited for the PB ..... but I think I shall enjoy it..

I wonder when (or if) there will be a paperback. There may not be. Thing is, those who want this book would have paid an extra few quid to get it with a decent binding, & I'm not sure its the kind of thing that even fans of Tolkien will buy on impulse at £20 a copy. £40 is a lot of money for a study of TH. Can't help wondering whether HC were really all that bothered about publishing it at all. Not seen much in the way of promotion. Mind you, they've got new Tolkien stuff every month for most of this year -
next month History of TH vol 2,
July 70th anniversary h/b of TH, Children of Hurin calendar & diary,
August a hardback of Tolkien's Fairy stories (Roverandom, Smith, Niggle, AoTB),
September the CoH audiobook, &
October the revised edition of OFS & a new ed of Mr Bliss.

& maybe they've blown their Tolkien promo budget on CoH...

[Mithalwen]

maybe ..but I am sure that there were plenty like me who might not have rushed out to buy it but happily whacked it on to the CoH order as a linked deal...

[davem]

Full of interesting little gems - like the fact that the original name of Golfimbul the Orc beheaded by Bullroarer in the act that originated the game of golf, was originally named Fingolfin! Clearly Tolkien wanted a name that included the 'golf' element in order to make the joke work, but this (as Rateliff points out) is an odd choice of name for a goblin.

Rateliff makes a decent case for TH being set in the world of the Sil right from the start - the reference to Beren & Luthien, the similarity between the painting of Mirkwood Tolkien made for TH & the painting of Beleg & Gwindor in Taur nu Fuin being virtually identical, etc, & accounts for the repeated references to the primary world (the Hindu kush, China, Shetland ponies) as being down to the fact that the Legendarium always, right from the BoLT period was a mythic history of our world. I'm not convinced. Roverandom is the problem for Rateliff's theory. Unless one is willing to argue that Roverandom, with its references to Faerie in the West is also set in the world of the Sil, & hence part of the Legendarium as well, its difficult to justify including TH in there - at least not from its origin.

Clearly Tolkien wanted it to be a part after the success of LotR - which is why in Vol 2 we can look forward to two chapters of TH re-written in the style of LotR.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I came back from the German Tolkien Seminar with a very interesting new publication by a small, specialized Swiss publishing company - Walking Tree Publishers (http://www.proaktiva.ch/walkingtree/). It's titled Roots and Branches, and is a collection of essays by Tom Shippey!! Many were published in obscure and hard-to-get publications, a number were given as speeches. I was excited to be able to read his paper on proverbiality in Tolkien from Birmingham 2005, since I wasn't able to attend his lecture then, and I'm looking forward to the rest as well.

I also bought Inside Language by Ross Smith - on linguistic and aesthetic theory in Tolkien. I have only peeked inside, so can't say anything about it yet. (Both above books are brand new, so not yet listed on the website, but it is possible for North American and British readers to order them, as they are printed on demand there as well as in continental Europe.)

Then I also brought the second volume of Tolkien and Modernity, which looks interesting, though I didn't buy it for that reason - I translated one paper in it from German into English! (A hard bit of work, if I may say so - academic German is rather difficult to translate!) Obviously, I did want to preserve a publication to which I contributed to show my grandchildren someday... :Merisu:

[Lalwendë]

Now I haven't been on this thread ina while and I was going to recommend the collection of Tom Shippey essays only to find Esty has been more on the ball ;)

Still, you guys can have the Amazon link if you likes: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Roots-Branches-Tom-Shippey/dp/390570305X/ref=pd_bowtega_1/203-8600325-5779140?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1183715062&sr=1-1

I bought it for davem back in June but we have such a huge stack of reading to do it has not been read yet - however a fellow TS member on me F List (a blogging thing) was the first person I saw recommend it and he reckons it's good, so if Esty does too...

Esty, I thought you were at the Shippey talk on proverbs??? Was that when you had to go and rehearse? Is the Tolkien & Modernity one worth having as I've got a growing interest in this idea.

Anyway, another new one that I can recommend (and davem bought this one for me :D), especially to all my fellow plantswomen is The Plants of Middle-earth: Botany and Sub-creation by Dinah Hazell. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Plants-Middle-earth-Botany-Sub-creation/dp/0873388836/ref=pd_sbs_b_2/203-8600325-5779140?ie=UTF8&qid=1183715062&sr=1-1. Not only is this interesting but it's rather nice looking too, and all us gardeners like to look at nice pictures of plants!

[davem]

Was going to link to this elsewhere, but

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0631236260/ref=sib_rdr_dp/203-4476136-6725516

Looks interesting, but I don't have it as yet. Not a Tolkien book as such, but Tolkien is referenced in the final chapter (check out the 'Look Inside' option) as being inspired by Norse literature.

Probably for Fans of Norse literature & Tolkien completists...

[davem]

Hobbit 70th Anniversary Edition http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/The_Hobbit_70th_Anniversary_Edition_by_Harper_Coll ins.php

& the CoH audio book will be available as a download http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/The_Children_of_Hurin_Update_August_2007.php
(Could we hope that the illustrations are included as jpeg's? on the cd's?)

[davem]

I've just got an email from Amazon about the 70th Anniversary Hobbit. They estimate that rather than delivery being today or tomorrow, it will be next February! Now, the boxed set, including Rateliff's History of TH as well as the 70th anniversary edition, is supposed to be out this month - & if its the case that TH will only be available separately next February something is definitely wrong - those of us who got the HoTH volumes as they appeared are being penalised. Of course, Amazon could be wrong - that said, this edition of TH has been promised for the last six months & has been constantly put back by the publishers.

Further bad news is that the CoH audio book, promised by Harper Collins for publication three days ago (3rd Sept), is now due out on November 5th, & the h/b Tales from the Perilous Realm (including Roverandom, Giles, Smith, Niggle & AoTB) has been promised from August 6th & still not appeared.

End rant......

[davem]

http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/The_Silmarillion_30th_Anniversary_de_luxe_edition. php

Anyway....an update on my rant.

Recieved an email from Amazon that TH has dispatched. Don't know who's mistake it was to send the 'Feb. delivery notification - misinfo from H-C or Amazon getting their dates wrong - I'd lean towards it being H-C. Tales from the Perilous Realm is now listed as being published Sept 1st 2008.

[davem]

http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/The_Hobbit_70th_Anniversary_Edition_by_Harper_Coll ins.php

[davem]

Well, I've just got The Hobbit 70th anniversary edition. Nice matte cover. Its the cheaper 'perfect' binding, rather than the sewn in signatures of the recent LotR, Sil & UT editions, but it does include the 'Mirkwood' illustration. Sadly, the fold out Thror's Map included in the deluxe edition, with the Moon Runes printed in reverse on the back so that they show through when held up to the light (as Tolkien intended) is not included. Certainly worth adding to your collection for all that.

[Child of the 7th Age]

My Houghton Mifflin 70th Anniversary Hobbit arrived today. Davem -- I assume you purchased the Harper Collins edition? Mine sounds similar to yours. After all these recent "glitzy" collector's edition, this one is more like a little grey mouse. Very comfortable to read. I rather like it, especially the muted tones of the cover that remind me a little of the Harper Collins History of the Hobbit. Does yours have the first chapter of LotR tucked into the back and the short foreward by Christopher dated 1987?

[davem]

My Houghton Mifflin 70th Anniversary Hobbit arrived today. Davem -- I assume you purchased the Harper Collins edition? Mine sounds similar to yours. After all these recent "glitzy" collector's edition, this one is more like a little grey mouse. Very comfortable to read. I rather like it, especially the muted tones of the cover that remind me a little of the Harper Collins History of the Hobbit. Does yours have the first chapter of LotR tucked into the back and the short foreward by Christopher dated 1987?

I think that, as with CoH, both HM & HC have gone for the same design & contents. Of course, including the Long Expected Party chapter in there opens up the whole can of worms about whether TH is part of the Legendarium proper.....:p

[Bêthberry]

I think that, as with CoH, both HM & HC have gone for the same design & contents. Of course, including the Long Expected Party chapter in there opens up the whole can of worms about whether TH is part of the Legendarium proper.....:p

No, it doesn't because

1. The Silm as a satisfactorily completed book was just a gleam in JRRT's and CT's eyes when TH and LotR were published, so the original inclusion of LEP had nothing to do with any kind of statement about the Legendarium.

2. Inclusion of LEP was related to the fact that Tolkien started LotR as a sequel to TH. Even if LotR grew beyond that intention, the original intention is not negated.

3. Inclusion of such chapters as LEP was a publishing strategy related to marketing. It was designed to inspire readers to buy more books (and maybe even pad a smallish book to make it seem more substantial). It was not designed to make a statement about any kind of authorial universe, about which readers at the time knew nothing.

4. Removing LEP from an edition of TH which is not represented as an exact reprinting of the original first edition and which includes several other items would represent a revision to the history of publication of TH. It happened. Discussing it of course is legitimate--many people do enjoy the wriggling aspect of argument--but to erase it is the worst sort of historical revisionism.

[davem]

No, it doesn't because

1. The Silm as a satisfactorily completed book was just a gleam in JRRT's and CT's eyes when TH and LotR were published, so the original inclusion of LEP had nothing to do with any kind of statement about the Legendarium.

Well, one could argue that the mythology was fully formed (certainly in Tolkien's mind) when Tolkien began TH, & despite Rateliff's arguments to the contrary TH was not written with anything but a very indirect relation to the Legendarium - yes, the early drafts contain references to Beren & Luthien, along with Gondolin & such, but they also contain references to China, the Hindu Kush & Shetland ponies.

2. Inclusion of LEP was related to the fact that Tolkien started LotR as a sequel to TH. Even if LotR grew beyond that intention, the original intention is not negated.

It could be argued that by the time The New Hobbit became LotR it had ceased to be a sequel to TH & become the final movement of the Silmarillion. Tolkien clearly stated that he 'did not approve of The Hobbit' preferring instead his own mythology. Of course, once LotR did become part of the Sil proper he was stuck with TH - which is neither part of the mythology proper (in CT's opinion - which is the main reason TH is not included in HoM-e). I think this is confirmed by the fact that he struggled & failed to make it (or a version/retelling of it) fit the mood & style of the Legendarium. Flieger doesn't count it as part of the Legendarium either, & dislikes it intensely (which I don't - its one of my favourite books)

3. Inclusion of such chapters as LEP was a publishing strategy related to marketing. It was designed to inspire readers to buy more books (and maybe even pad a smallish book to make it seem more substantial). It was not designed to make a statement about any kind of authorial universe, about which readers at the time knew nothing.

That I accept - a clear marketing strategy. Of course, most recent pb editions of TH have included LEP. Personally, I find it leaves TH feeling 'unfinished'. Rather than a complete tale in its own right, with a beginning, middle & end it is reduced to a prequel to LotR.

4. Removing LEP from an edition of TH which is not represented as an exact reprinting of the original first edition and which includes several other items would represent a revision to the history of publication of TH. It happened. Discussing it of course is legitimate--many people do enjoy the wriggling aspect of argument--but to erase it is the worst sort of historical revisionism.

I don't see how it constitues 'revisionism' at all. Tolkien never authorised LEP to be included in TH, & it seems to me to be simply an extended advert for LotR.

I think the bottom line is Th wasn't written as a sequel to or continuation of the mythology as it existed at the time of writing, once the New Hobbit had become part of The Sil mythology Tolkien was stuck with TH & repeatedly tried & failed to properly integrate it & in the end gave up. TH should be seen as a stand alone tale, not as the precursor to something greater. If readers want to see it as a part of the Legendarium proper they are free to do so - Rateliff provides enough 'evidence' to convince those who want to be convinced (against the clear statements of both Tolkien pere & fils) but adding LEP is an attempt to tie TH directly into LotR & thus to The Sil mythology, when there is a strong (some of us would say convincing) argument to be made that it it not.

EDIT more from Rateliff on this here http://sacnoths.blogspot.com/2007/09/so-thanks-to-johan-ive-now-seen-two.html

[Bêthberry]

Thank you, davem, for rehearsing the argument about TH's status in the Legendarium. I'm sure there would be one or two Downers at least who are reading this thread who might not previously have been acquainted with the argument.

But to focus on the new Tolkien books aspect of this topic, I doubt that any of us have access to Tolkien's mind at the time he wrote TH or recited it to his children (or at any other time for that matter), so it's a bit dodgy saying what existed in his mind. Millions of marriages might be headed for the rocks if we could read minds so easily--or possibly be salvaged--especially after the fact.

And I'm ever so intrigued by that announcement in the 1937Allen and Unwin catalogue. I wonder who wrote it?


The period is the ancient time between the age of Faerie and the dominion of men when the famous forest of Mirkwood was still standing and the mountains were full of danger.


Here's the link you provided on Esty's TH birthday thread: Announcement of TH (http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/dmiller/000432.htm)

[davem]

Thank you, davem, for rehearsing the argument about TH's status in the Legendarium. I'm sure there would be one or two Downers at least who are reading this thread who might not previously have been acquainted with the argument.

Don't mention it. That's what i'm here for.

But to focus on the new Tolkien books aspect of this topic, I doubt that any of us have access to Tolkien's mind at the time he wrote TH or recited it to his children (or at any other time for that matter), so it's a bit dodgy saying what existed in his mind. Millions of marriages might be headed for the rocks if we could read minds so easily--or possibly be salvaged--especially after the fact.

i think I quite fairly presented the evidence & offered up CT & Flieger as proponents of the TH is not part of the Legendarium argument & Rateliff as part of the oh yes it is lobby. Lot's of us have attempted to guess what was in his mind at various times, what his motives were, or why he even bothered at all, when he could just have got seriously drunk & found a nice comfortable gutter to lie down in.

And I'm ever so intrigued by that announcement in the 1937Allen and Unwin catalogue. I wonder who wrote it?

Originally Posted by Announcement of The Hobbit's publication
The period is the ancient time between the age of Faerie and the dominion of men when the famous forest of Mirkwood was still standing and the mountains were full of danger.

Here's the link you provided on Esty's TH birthday thread: Announcement of TH (http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/dmiller/000432.htm)

Possibly Tolkien himself - sounds like his phraseology. Of course 'age of faerie' could mean 'world of the Legendarium' (Fairies at that time still being a name for Elves) - which is what Rateliff would argue, or it could just mean 'age of fairytale' where Elves & fairies rode Shetland ponies over the Hindu Kush...

[davem]

A new edition of CoH - for the collectors (& older Downers) the large print edition

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0007252250/thebookdeposi-21/

Oh, & Amazon.ca state that the paperback CoH is published April 7th 2008 - doesn't mention if the paintings are included.
http://www.amazon.ca/Children-Hurin-J-R-R-Tolkien/dp/0007252269/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4/702-6256563-8135200?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190834773&sr=8-4

[Valier]

I'm not sure if it is new, but has anyone read "Children of Hurin"? I just recently bought it because I've never seen it before. It has alot of the same stuff that is in the Sil and Unfinished tales, but there is a bunch of new stuff added. If it is new I can surely find out what was newly added and share what I've found.

[davem]

A three volume set with the Alan Lee Illustrations:

The first ever illustrated paperback of part one of Tolkien's epic masterpiece, The Lord of the Rings, featuring 19 colour paintings by Alan Lee. Sauron, the Dark Lord, has gathered to him all the Rings of Power -- the means by which he intends to rule Middle-earth. All he lacks in his plans for dominion is the One Ring -- the ring that rules them all -- which has fallen into the hands of the hobbit, Bilbo Baggins. In a sleepy village in the Shire, young Frodo Baggins finds himself faced with an immense task, as his elderly cousin Bilbo entrusts the Ring to his care. Frodo must leave his home and make a perilous journey across Middle-earth to the Cracks of Doom, there to destroy the Ring and foil the Dark Lord in his evil purpose. JRR Tolkien's great work of imaginative fiction has been labelled both a heroic romance and a classic fantasy fiction. By turns comic and homely, epic and diabolic, the narrative moves through countless changes of scene and character in an imaginary world which is totally convincing in its detail.Part of a set of three paperbacks, this classic edition is available in a smart new livery, and is illustrated by Alan Lee throughout to complement the new paperback of The Children of Hurin.

So, looks like the CoH paperback is published on the same date.

[davem]

This one also looks interesting - if a little expensive: Chesterton and Tolkien as Theologians

http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/Chesterton_and_Tolkien_as_Theologians.php

[davem]

http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/Paperbacks_Illustrated_by_Alan_Lee.php

Designed to match the CoH paperback http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/The_Children_of_Hurin_Super_Deluxe.php

All released next April.

[A_Brandybuck]

This one here seems to be very interesting: The Silmarillion: 30 years on
http://www.walking-tree.org/cormareBookInfo.php?number=15

Here are some more pieces information about the content or the authors of the essays, respectively. Sadly it is on German, but maybe Google will help.... ;)
http://www.tolkien-buecher.de/news.php?id=61

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Any questions on Walking Tree Publications (the link provided by A_Brandybuck above) can be sent to me - I have my fingers in several pies there, and will be happy to translate information for those interested. The books themselves are in English and are well worth reading.

[davem]

More on this book from the Tolkien Library site:
http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/The_Silmarillion-Thirty_Years_On.php

Also, the Tolkien Society are offering 2 recordings on CD of Tolkien related talks:

1st is Facets of Tolkien: Priscilla Tolkien from 1977 on The Silmarillion, Humphrey Carpenter from the same year on The Silmarillion, & Raynor Unwin in 1980 on Unfinished Tales.

2nd is Tolkien & the Inklings: Humphrey Carpenter in 1978 on his book The Inklings, Tom Shippey in 1982 on The Righteous Pagan in Tolkien, & Barbara Strachey in 1981 on Journeys of Frodo.

Available from Tolkien Society Trading Ltd, 8 Chantry Lane, Westbury, Wiltshire, BA 13 3BS, UK for £15.99 (£17.50 for European orders, £17.99 rest of the world) each or £28.00 (£29.75 Eur./£32 RoW) for both.

[davem]

More on the edition of 'Tales from the Perilous Realm' due out Sept/Oct from Harper Collins.

The five tales are written with the same skill, quality and charm that made The Hobbit a classic. Largely overlooked because of their short lengths, they are finally together in a volume which reaffirms Tolkien's place as a master storyteller for readers young and old.

Roverandom is a toy dog who, enchanted by a sand sorcerer, gets to explore the world and encounter strange and fabulous creatures. Farmer Giles of Ham is fat and unheroic, but - having unwittingly managed to scare off a short-sighted giant - is called upon to do battle when a dragon comes to town; The Adventures of Tom Bombadil tells in verse of Tom's many adventures with hobbits, princesses, dwarves and trolls; Leaf by Niggle recounts the strange adventures of the painter Niggle who sets out to paint the perfect tree; Smith of Wootton Major journeys to the Land of Faery thanks to the magical ingredients of the Great Cake of the Feast of Good Children.

This new collection is fully illustrated throughout by Oscar-winning artist, Alan Lee, who provides a wealth of pencil drawings to bring the stories to life as he did so memorably for The Hobbit and The Children of Húrin. Alan also provides an Afterword, in which he opens the door into illustrating Tolkien's world.

World-renowned Tolkien author and expert, Tom Shippey, takes the reader through the hidden links in the tales to Tolkien's Middle-earth in his Introduction, and recounts their history and themes.

Lastly, included as an appendix is Tolkien's most famous essay, "On Fairy-stories", in which he brilliantly discusses fairy-stories and their relationship to fantasy.

Taken together, this rich collection of new and unknown work from the author of The Children of Húrin will provide the reader with a fascinating journey into lands as wild and strange as Middle-earth.

It will be available in standard H/B & de-Luxe (same format as the CoH de-Luxe).

Tom Shippey intro, Alan Lee illustrations & Afterword, & OFS included..... have to say that a Hobbit movie pales into insignificance.......

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Sounds nice; enticing, with Lee's illustrations, though a hardback is a rather expensive addition for those of us who already have all of those works. I can suggest a perfect companion:

http://www.walking-tree.org/covers/cc17_140.jpg

More information here (http://www.polyoinos.de/tolk_stuff/tolk_shorterworks.html). (Cover illustration by Anke Eissmann)

[davem]

http://www.harpercollins.co.uk/Contents/Title/Pages/default.aspx?objId=38122

[Lalwendë]

The proceedings of the Tolkien 2005 conference are due to made available around the time of Oxonmoot. The editors (all just TS members) have been working hard on them for nowt but the fun of it.

Should cost about £35, which is expensive but I've Gotta Have It, because there was loads of good stuff I missed (it was just impossible to go to everything), loads of stuff I did not miss but I'd like to read the papers from - and most importantly because the proceedings of the Centenary Conference is (are?) one of my fave Tolkien books and these are impossible to obtain now. That was full of random but inspired stuff and this should be the same. :cool:

[Estelyn Telcontar]

That's great news, Lal! I will definitely buy it as well, to freshen up some topics and to be able to read those which I wasn't able to hear. I hope it will be available at Oxonmoot, as I could then purchase it without mailing costs.

[Lalwendë]

That's great news, Lal! I will definitely buy it as well, to freshen up some topics and to be able to read those which I wasn't able to hear. I hope it will be available at Oxonmoot, as I could then purchase it without mailing costs.

In the last issue of Amon Hen it said they should be available to collect at Oxonmoot - I would imagine putting an order in to TS Trading (you can get to it via the TS website) would reserve you a copy. However they did specifically warn that they are incredibly heavy and I understand it comes in two volumes, so it might end up costing you a lot in extra baggage on a flight! :eek:

EDIT - checked Amon Hen and you can order via TS Trading. UK price - £35; Europe and World Surface price - £50; World Air price - £66. If you mark the order "Oxonmoot collection" and it is available at that time, you will be refunded the postage.

Also, Tolkien Studies 5 will be out soon (price £26.99) - though if I had to choose between that and the 2005 papers, I'd pick the papers because Tolkien Studies can be a bit dry ;)

Bob Blackham also has a book coming out titled Tolkien's Oxford - this should be good as his book on Birmingham was ace. And he's a nice bloke too, always good to see royalties going to a nice bloke :)

[Lalwendë]

Whoa! Check out the contents of the Proceedings of Tolkien 2005:

http://www.tolkiensociety.org/2005/proceedings/index.html

Stellar cast list plus a paper on just about everything. That should keep any reader going for a few months. :eek: This is a must-have book for me.

Esty gets a virtual drink if she can spot the obvious omission. I wonder why that has been left out?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Stellar cast list plus a paper on just about everything. That should keep any reader going for a few months. :eek: This is a must-have book for me.

Whoa, that looks all too interesting - too promising from what I see, though, I am kind of afraid that I won't have the chance to obtain it :(

[Lalwendë]

Whoa, that looks all too interesting - too promising from what I see, though, I am kind of afraid that I won't have the chance to obtain it :(

I'm hoping it might make for good thread topics! So some of it might be quoted, if it does!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I'm hoping it might make for good thread topics! So some of it might be quoted, if it does!

Yup, I am pretty sure it might. Let's look forward to it...

[Bêthberry]

Whoa! Check out the contents of the Proceedings of Tolkien 2005:

http://www.tolkiensociety.org/2005/proceedings/index.html

Stellar cast list plus a paper on just about everything. That should keep any reader going for a few months. :eek: This is a must-have book for me.

Esty gets a virtual drink if she can spot the obvious omission. I wonder why that has been left out?

It's expensive, but a little less than many academic books. Pity I won't be at Oxonmoot to pick it up, as a $40 price tag for mailing it internationally is steep methinks.

Was this Oxonmoot the first meeting of Esty, Lal, and davem or was that 2006?

[Lalwendë]

It's expensive, but a little less than many academic books. Pity I won't be at Oxonmoot to pick it up, as a $40 price tag for mailing it internationally is steep methinks.

Was this Oxonmoot the first meeting of Esty, Lal, and davem or was that 2006?

Well, Birmingham was ;) In 2005 BC*. I remember when last year's Oxonmoot was on I was holed up in the Women's Hospital going stir crazy because they'd realised with much shock how large the young Prince was going to be and wouldn't let me go home. We went in 2006 and met Mithalwen! And narfforc, but the time he doesn't go to Oxonmoot we should all be worried ;)





*Before Childe

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Esty gets a virtual drink if she can spot the obvious omission. I wonder why that has been left out?
Dear me, now you have me curious! I wonder if the omission will be so obvious to me that I can find it without spending all day searching?

Of course, the Cambridge Society's live reading wouldn't be there - one of the events I enjoyed very much.

[Lalwendë]

Dear me, now you have me curious! I wonder if the omission will be so obvious to me that I can find it without spending all day searching?

Of course, the Cambridge Society's live reading wouldn't be there - one of the events I enjoyed very much.

Ah, just a certain well known critic's papers are NOT included! :)

[Lalwendë]

Whoo! The huge wodge of text that is the 2005 Proceedings arrived today, which look like they could provide a rich mine of thread topics. I've only had a chance to browse through so far but I'm looking forwards to reading all the papers I missed and revising those I attended but have gone all misty in the back of my memory (plus I had the added joy of thinking the Royal Mail van was going to drive through the front of the house as he screeched up diagonally onto the pavement instead of actually 'parking').

It all looks most thorough, the papers all have proper footnotes and bibliographies and everything and there is a proper index. And they look well bound, too.

[Lalwendë]

I forgot to add this one:

Tolkien's Oxford by Bob Blackham

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tolkiens-Oxford-Robert-Blackham/dp/0752447297/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231246335&sr=8-1

I got this one for Christmas and while I'm snowed under with dozens of new books (and distracted from ploughing through 'em by many other kinds of 'stuff'), I've had a good look through and it's packed solid with ace photos, both old and current, of Oxford and its surrounding area. It's typical Bob Blackham and very entertaining and informative, plus has maps and all that gubbins for exploration purposes.

It's even better than his one on Brum.

[Beregond]

Ooh, that one looks excellent! Could have used it when I visited Oxford.

[davem]

Black & White Ogre Country, The Lost Tales of Hilary Tolkien


Description: Beautiful collection of short stories from a recently discovered notebook / scrapbook of Hilary Tolkien describing the childhhood adventures of himself and his brother JRR Tolkien. 80 pages including wonderful colour illustrations by Jef Murray. A must have for Tolkien fans, helps complete the biography, contains previously unseen extracts from letters by JRR Tolkien, his father, photo's of the brothers and family etc. Expertly and emotionally edited by Angela Gardner.

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1255554734&searchurl=kn%3DBlack%2Band%2BWhite%2BOgre%253A%2BT he%2BLost%2BTales%2Bof%2BHilary%2BTolkien%26vci%3D 3185100

Not out till later this month - by which time it should be available via Amazon

(Those of us who are members of the Tolkien Society, & have attended Oxonmoot will know the lovely Angie of Daeron's Books. )

[Lalwendë]

That's one to snap up ASAP, going by the short appearance in bookshops of The Tolkien Family Album!

[Bêthberry]

I have long been curious to learn more about Hilary Tolkien--how fascinating that one brother became an Oxford don and the other a farmer--so this looks doubly interesting. I shall reserve my copy promptly.

[davem]

More info on the Hilary book (as found by me mate geordie over at the Plaza)

http://www.tolkienbooks.net/?p=121

[Estelyn Telcontar]

tolkien-buecher.de (http://www.tolkien-buecher.de/en/), a German news service about Tolkien-related books, has informed of the translation of a Danish book to English, making it available to most of us for reading. It concerns a Jungian interpretation of the LotR; if you're interested, you can read the introductory chapter here: CG Jung page (http://www.cgjungpage.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=541&Itemid=40). The author is Pia Skogemann.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Today I read about a book scam that also involves allegedly new books about Tolkien. For more information, here is the Wikipedia link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:PrimeHunter/Alphascript_Publishing_sells_free_articles_as_expe nsive_books). Before anyone pays for a poor copy of free information, do check whether it is genuine! If the editors' names are John McBrewster, Frederic P. Miller, and Agnes F. Vandome, don't buy it.

[Inziladun]

Thanks for the info. It's probably a matter of time before spambots selling them appear here. :rolleyes:

[narfforc]

Apparently some bloke called J.K Tolkien or something like that, has written a story based on them films about The Lord of the Rings, is that new or what?

[Lindale]

I saw this (http://www.amazon.com/Legend-Sigurd-Gudrun-J-R-R-Tolkien/dp/0547273428) this morning at a high-end bookstore. I've read the comments on Amazon, but before I buy this one I wanna know fellow Downers' opinions. It's a bit too pricey for me--over a thousand pesos for a person who buys mostly second-hands for fractions of that cost. Is it worth that much money?

[Pitchwife]

If you're into Norse mythology and/or alliterative verse, or interested in reading a poetical work by Tolkien set outside of Middle-earth, or interested in seeing the Prof rework some of the sources that inspired him in his own style and language, then yes, it's definitely worth reading. (About the money question - you might try to get it from a library and look for yourself before you decide whether to buy it or not. I was lucky to have it given to me as a birthday present, but I'd probably have bought it anyway.)
There's a thread with some comments and links to more reviews here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=15457).

[narfforc]

I met the author (Ethan Gilsdorf) at The Tolkien Society A.G.M in Chester a few years ago. He has since interviewed a number of Tolkien readers, myself amongst them. I haven't read it yet (on the xmas list), however I have read the reviews. I suggest you Google it and see what you think.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Many of you are familiar with Anke Eissmann's Tolkien illustrations. Walking Tree Publishers has now published a book, Beowulf and the Dragon (http://www.walking-tree.org/books/beowulf_and_the_dragon.php), with her illustrations and the Old English text and Modern English translation of an episode of the tale side by side. It's a luxury edition which will primarily interest collectors and fans of the Beowulf legend. The above link also includes links to her website and to an interview.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

As of today, the book Music in Middle-earth is available. More information on the Walking Tree (http://www.walking-tree.org/) website.

What a nice coincidence that today is Tolkien's birthday... (my precioussssss)

[Bêthberry]

Congratulations, Esty. Tremendous work. I look forward to reading it. :Merisu:

[Faramir Jones]

I ordered two copies of the above, which I received yesterday. They are very nice to look at; and some relatives who saw them were impressed at the high quality. :)

There's a lot to read in Music; so it'll be some time before I can give a review of it. ;)

As Bêthberry said, congratulations Esty! :D

[Mithalwen]

For once Amazon has alerted to something I am genuinely interested in:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0007312709/ref=pe_3421_18420851_snp_dp

As Poison Ivy can testify I am not gifted in spatial awareness and directions (still can't find her house without a map despite it being barely a mile away from where I have lived most of my life) and as a result I found Barbara Strachey's "Journeys of Frodo" a real boon when reading LOTR - particularly when the various companies diverge and I have never had a strong concept of the geography of Beleriand so I think I will break my "no more new books until I have read those I have already bought" resolution for this since I need to reread the primary works and I think this will be a great help.

Brian Sibley very kindly participated in our discussions of the BBC radio series (which we must complete sometime).:cool:

[davem]

I notice the Sibley/Howe Hobbit map http://www.amazon.co.uk/There-Back-Again-Tolkiens-Hobbit/dp/0007312717/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1264707515&sr=1-2 is out at the same time & the LotR map edition is available http://www.amazon.co.uk/Road-Goes-Ever-Tolkiens-Middle-Earth/dp/0007312695/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_c.

All nice productions - actually there is a fourth - a map of Numenor, which as far as I'm aware is only available in the boxed set http://www.amazon.co.uk/Maps-Tolkiens-Middle-earth-Special/dp/0007169701/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1264707998&sr=1-8