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View Full Version : What happened to Beleriand?


draggonklaw
02-14-2001, 06:32 PM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
Posts: 17</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
In the Silmarillion map of Beleriand, the Blue Mtns (Ered Luin) run North to South on the East side of the map and disappear. In the LotR map of ME, they appear in the North-west coming down from the Ice bay of Forochel, and come to an end at the Gulf of Lhun, near the Grey Havens.
Does that mean that Beleriand is under Ice now? Did the polar ice caps melt and cover Beleriand? did the deluge on Numenor cover Beleriand as well? What happened?

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enep
02-14-2001, 08:01 PM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dm
Posts: 317</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Beleriand

At the end of the First Age, the host of the Valar marched forth in the War of Wrath and Beleriand was completely destroyed and in that tumult was thrown under the sea. Very few remnants of it remain...Water flowed in through the Blue Mountains and split them in two, forming the Gulf of Lhun. The Ice Bay/Cape of Forochel are what I assume to be the remnants of the Helcaraxe, the Grinding Ice. Polar Ice Caps did not melt due to high amounts of pipe-smoke being released into the ME atmosphere, and Beleriand was long gone by the time Numenor went under.

Have you got the Silmarillion, draggonklaw, formerly known as Eledhgil? <img src=wink.gif ALT=";)">

- enep</p>

draggonklaw
02-14-2001, 08:20 PM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
Posts: 23</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Beleriand

Yeah enep, But I haven't been thru it in a long time. Right now I'm working my way back thru LotR again. I just wanted to throw out some more topics to get things rolling. I figure that even if they are simple ones, it'll be good for all the newcomers on the site (Esp. me! I'm a ME novice).

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enep
02-14-2001, 11:09 PM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dm
Posts: 323</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Beleriand

Oh ok. I read it about a month ago <img src=wink.gif ALT=";)"> Always good to start a few new topics.

- enep</p>

Mithadan
02-15-2001, 07:51 AM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Spirit of Mist
Posts: 611</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Beleriand

The drowning of Beleriand is a little bit of a mystery. Did it happen abruptly or gradually and how? JRRT in some earlier writings suggests that Beleriand was not completely destroyed by the War of Wrath but that the &quot;job&quot; was finished by waves, etc. at the time Numenor was destroyed. There is a thread discussing this a few pages back. Hard to reach concrete conclusions.

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

Mister Underhill
02-15-2001, 09:50 AM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dm
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Re: Beleriand

Where does JRRT ponder this prickly question, Mith? I'd like to look that up. You have to figure there was time for all the &quot;good guys&quot; (and apparently a few Orcs and the odd Balrog, too) to relocate to the east before the destruction.

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Mithadan
02-15-2001, 11:58 AM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Spirit of Mist
Posts: 616</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Beleriand

I'll have to look it up but I believe it was HoME 5 where the early Numenor myths are first discussed. The gradual vs. abrupt submersion idea stems from prior discussion here and, to my knowledge, is not addressed directly by JRRT. Two ways to look at it I guess. Either the destruction of Beleriand was gradual, allowing people time to leave, or it was abrupt, but occurring in intervals throughout the War (which lasted 50 years if I recall) allowing people to get out of the way.

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

Child of the 7th Age
07-15-2002, 12:47 AM
Pio -- Here is more on sinking Beleriand. sharon, the 7th age hobbit

piosenniel
07-15-2002, 01:29 AM
Thanks, Child! Still no resolution, eh?!

Birdland
07-15-2002, 06:30 AM
Perhaps we had another Deus Ex Machina moment and the Eagles swept down and got everyone out of the way. Hmmmmm, maybe that should be Deus Ex Aquila?

Those Eagles were sure handy-dandy critters!

mark12_30
07-15-2002, 07:59 AM
Re: the eagles, the impression that I got is that they are closely connected to Manwe (air, sky, spirit...) I think it was in the Silm that got mentioned a couple of times. It seems to me that Manwe watches, waiting, and when the folks on the ground have done what they can, and are almost there but in a tight fix, Manwe has mercy and sends the eagles. That was my impression. So is it a Deux Es Machina, or is it "Manwe finally decided to give us a hand at last??" And... which is more frustrating? I guess with Manwe in the picture, I at least feel that there is character development going on, and heroism matters. The hero has to get most of the way there, and show some serious character, and motivation and courage.

There's just some supernatural assistance to push things over the edge when it gets a bit tight.

That fits in, really, with the catholic view of divine assistance-- you gotta earn it by doing your part-- and Tolkien was catholic. It's not quite "God helps them who help themselves", it's more like "Show God you are serious before you ask him to join your team." (Or something like that.)

[ July 15, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]