Do we realize how crazy we are?

[Gurthang]

We all here love LotR, and Tolkien in general. But have you ever stopped and tried to think of what our little forum looks like from the outside?

It's a pretty interesting picture. I must say that a whole bunch of people talking about a book online doesn't seem like a normal thing to me. And then the fact that we are so into Tolkien's history and philosophy and such makes us seem all the more erratic. Especially how much time we spend on the forums everyday. (I was somewhat flabbergasted at how much time I spent online during the WW8 game :rolleyes: )

And if you ask a real outsiders opinion, I'm sure they all think we are freaks. :D Well, good for us. At least we know what we like! I really enjoy those bizarre looks people give me when I tell them what the Barrowdowns is. It's a "Oh, so you're one of those people" look and then that body language that says they're not sure if they want to be seen around you. It makes me laugh!

But really, how do you think we look from the outside? Do you get any of those weird looks when you mention the Barrowdowns? Are you okay with the fact that you're a LotR-lovin' freak? ;)

[Glirdan]

When my parents found out that I joined they gave me a look taht plainly said "you are a wierdo". But I really dont care. The fact that we are LotR and Tolkien fans is great. I haven't really told anyone else that I'm on here because they really don't need to know. The only friend I have who is as into LotR and Tolkien is are own Wilwa. And I'm really gald that I have someone to talk to about all this. If I were to tell anyone about this site, I picture them saying "Oh, that's cool." then look at me and give me a "you're a freak get away from me I don't want to be your friend" kind of look. I find how much time I spend on her ridiculously hilarious, yet I can't help it. When we were all forbidden by that hatted "error 403" I was having withdrawl. I needed to come back on. And thus (here I go stating the obvious again[kind of like Captain Obvious again]) I love being a LotR-loving freak! I

[wilwarin538]

Freaks? Us? I don't think that we are the freaks. I think everyone else in the world who doesn't like Tolkien are the freaks. ;)

[Meneltarmacil]

Generally, the way I act on this forum is the way I act in "real life," at least when I am in a good mood in RL (though it wasn't originally that way, I was rather quiet in RL to begin with. I think posting here has brought out my more outgoing, creative, and generally crazier side) And most people who know me in RL usually appreciate that aspect of me, and consider me somewhat "unique," but in a good way.

[Morsul the Dark]

Ah yes My mom pretends to be interested but really thinks I'm crazy especially when I talk about the Balrog wing debate....

My friend Juan says Im obsessed luckily myu friend who also likes LOTR finds it completely normal yay

wilwarin538 Freaks? Us? I don't think that we are the freaks. I think everyone else in the world who doesn't like Tolkien are the freaks.

I agree

[Glirdan]

On this site, you guys get to see the part of me that only my good friends (i.e Wilwa) and my girlfriend get to see. Normally, I'm not this crazy or outgoing, unless I'm around good friends, right Wilwa? So this site brings out the part of me that I would like to come out more often. As for us being freaks, ya right! As Wilwa put it:

Freaks? Us? I don't think that we are the freaks. I think everyone else in the world who doesn't like Tolkien are the freaks.

So true, can't argue with that.

[alatar]

My wife and close friends are glad that I have an outlet other than their ears for all of my thoughts regarding Tolkien. And as she married me, Ms. alatar must be okay with my version of reality (note to those of you who are dating: if you still have to be someone else when you've been dating someone for a time, that might tell you something and you might want to rethink that relationship.).

And considering all of the other things, vices, etc in which I could be involved...and you'll never catch me sitting inside on the couch watching (American) football on TV on a sunny autumn day while the kids played outside - how nuts is that?

And what else would I do while I was at work? ;)

[Kath]

Well I know that my friends and family think I'm a complete nut with the amount of time I spend on here. It got worse when the Werewolf game started, as you tend to get some odd stares when you refuse to budge from the computer to get to your next lesson or to eat whilst muttering about who needs to be lynched today :rolleyes: And then of course yesterday, was it only that long ago, when the Downs was closed and I spent every possible moment on the computer trying to find a way in.

So with that added to my slight withdrawal symptoms every time I can't get on for more than two days I am considered obsessed and weird. But I agree with wilwa, it is those who don't know the joys of this site that are the odd ones, not us!

Of course, all insane people say that :D

[Durelin]

Crazy is a way of life. Joining a forum isn't enough to be crazy. Try harder.

;)

[VanimaEdhel]

My dad used to be part of something called Comp-U-Serve (or something of a similar pronunciation) back in "the day". He kind of sees forums as a similar thing - he thinks that it's great that I can come on and talk to people from all over the world that are so different, but who share at least one common interest. Now that I'm at Wellesley College, it's basically the same thing all over, but in person. My mom probably thought it was a little odd, but she kind of respects me, so she never said anything.

It's an unsaid surety amongst my friends that I'm weird. Then again, we're all kind of weird. I have a feeling if I told most people here at college, they wouldn't bat an eyelash - they'd probably tell me what forums they belong to.

But you know, any Forum dedicated to one thing is kind of odd if you consider it. At least we have a broader topic - there are many books Tolkien wrote, we can discuss his life in general, and there are the movies to talk about. Plus Role-Playing is always an option. Meanwhile, at boards dedicated to a single person - Dominic Monaghan, Andy Roddick, Derek Jeter, Josh Hartnett, etc. - how much can they really talk about? All they can discuss is whether Dominic Monaghan is "really" dating Evangeline Lilly or something equally as inane. We can broaden our conversation, discussing cultures within the books, how it reflects on our culture, language, nuance, metaphor, biography, religion - the whole nine yards. That's why our Forum has lasted so long, I think. Even after all this time, we can still find ways of discussing new things - that's the difference between books and people or even books and movies. There's just more to talk about when you're discussing and author and his works.

[The Barrow-Wight]

Me? Crazy? What did I ever do except build a website and forum around a fictional graveyard in a fictional world inhabited by elves, dwarves, ghosts, trolls, and hairy little hobbits? Only a completely sane person would dedicate a kabillion hours to such a thing AND name himself after an animated corpse. Parents around the world must surely consider me a perfect role model! :D

[Glirdan]

All hail the mighty Barrow-Wight for his exessive knowledge and for stariting this site where all of us sane people can come and talk about Tolkien and LotR related topics.

[The Perky Ent]

If we killed all the weird people, the human race would cease to exist

[Gurthang]

I agree with Kath especially.

Originally posted by Kath
It got worse when the Werewolf game started, as you tend to get some odd stares when you refuse to budge from the computer to get to your next lesson or to eat whilst muttering about who needs to be lynched today

That is so true. My sisters and my mom and dad were rather peeved at first when I was playing in the game. I, of course, explained to them that I was a special character, the first of its kind, and that I was against everyone. I would even suddenly burst out with a "I hope they don't kill me" from absolutely nowhere. They were pretty annoyed, especially when I was doing it in public. Towards the end, they were actually asking me if I was still alive!

BTW, it's good to see you again Perky Ent.

And Wilwa, I like that so much I'm using it as my sig. :D

[The Perky Ent]

Yes, I am back. Like all living creatures, I sleep. However...we ents tend to sleep a little longer than most. It is a burden....but we...must....not...for....zzzzzzz

[alatar]

Once upon a time there was a season of my life when I was more concerned about what others thought. I would try to blend in with the rest of the world, but for some reason my camoflague never worked very well - one movement and I could be seen by all. It'd be like those schools of fish that manuever as one. I always turned the wrong way.

Seasons change, and then I found a group of people that felt just like I did - wanting to fit in, yet somehow never being able to get it right. We realized that swimming in formation wasn't really that important. These people became my friends, my Fellowship - a ragtag demographic mix, yet together because of being different. Anyway, they still thought I was weird/odd, yet they didn't shoo me away, and I've known some of them longer than some of you have existed.

More time passed, and (as alluded to before) Ms. alatar came into my life. She not only tolerated my difference, she aided and abetted it! We obviously had to marry to spare others, as if she liked me for me, then she was definitely outside of the curve too.

Another season, and I'm a father. Oblivious to all except my family, I'm no longer concerned with fish, formations and differences - silly things, now. Have exceptional children, none of which is normal in the clicky school sense, and I'm trying to allow/encourage them to be different too, as I see where it got me...

Which is here.

[Lhunardawen]

If we killed all the weird people, the human race would cease to exist Something like, "You're unique, just like everyone else"? ;)

But I do think that every single person in the world has his or her own oddity. We all just happened to have the same. Which is cool. :cool:

But you guys have to be weird in some other ways other than anything related to Tolkien. Right? Right?

[Orominuialwen]

I'm fortunate in that my family and real friends tolerate my oddities. My mom belonged to at least one forum before I even know such a thing existed (circa 2000), and she tolerates and encourages my activities here (although she thinks I should spend less time on the computer). I think this is fair, since I tolerate the fact that she has only missed watching Jeopardy! a handful of times in the last 16 years or so and hates being interrupted when it's on. My friends tolerate my interest too, especially since one of them is an avid LotR fan herself and likes to spend time on forums.

But you know, any Forum dedicated to one thing is kind of odd if you consider it. At least we have a broader topic - there are many books Tolkien wrote, we can discuss his life in general, and there are the movies to talk about. Plus Role-Playing is always an option. Meanwhile, at boards dedicated to a single person - Dominic Monaghan, Andy Roddick, Derek Jeter, Josh Hartnett, etc. - how much can they really talk about? All they can discuss is whether Dominic Monaghan is "really" dating Evangeline Lilly or something equally as inane. We can broaden our conversation, discussing cultures within the books, how it reflects on our culture, language, nuance, metaphor, biography, religion - the whole nine yards. That's why our Forum has lasted so long, I think. Even after all this time, we can still find ways of discussing new things - that's the difference between books and people or even books and movies. There's just more to talk about when you're discussing and author and his works. Even stranger than a forum devoted to just one person, I once stumbled a forum devoted completely to long hair. I've been trying (unsucessfully) for 12 years to grow my hair (it's only grown a foot or so in that time), so I thought I'd join. Before I did, I realized that there had to be a very finite number of ways in which long hair can be discussed. What was the nail in the coffin was that this forum had a section entirely of members' journals about their hair. I still can't comprehend what sort of things these could possibly contain, other than this type of entry:

Dear Diary,
Today it was very warm and humid. My hair was frizzy. It's still the same length and color it was yesterday. I washed it today.
Love,
Hair forum member

See what I mean? Compared to something like that, our discussions here are incredibly diverse and varied.

[Ainaserkewen]

I heard the term "freaks" used on this forum because of the proper grammar, puntuation and spelling here.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

If we killed all the weird people, the human race would cease to exist (Perks)
How true! People are weird in their own way. 'Normal' is just a setting on your dryer.

Of course, people with seemingly similar interests band together and look at those others as 'weird'. How weird of them.

[Gurthang]

People who have common interests join together because of that interest. Other people look at those people as weird for their banding. We in the same manner look at the others as weird because they do not share our interest. And then those same people who we think are weird and who think we are weird find another group of people who share interests and join, thus thinking us weird, their group not, and all other groups, which they were once part of, weird. Which in the end just leaves us with those in our group and those out; each being considered weird by the others depending on their own viewpoint.

That was really confusing.

Anyway, playing on what Orominuialwen said; I'd much rather be considered wierd for liking LotR than for posting diary entries about my hair. ;) :D

[Lalwendë]

One person's freak is another person's friend. Ooh, that was clever at this time of day for me. ;)

Anyway, I've thought about this idea of community before. Traditionally a community is a group of people living close to one another, e.g. a street or village. Alas that kind of community is less common these days, not because we don't live close to one another, but because so many people move house so often; not many people these days stay where they were brought up, and when they do move out of the area, they seem to move quite often, certainly working people with decent incomes in the UK.

So we form other types of community. We have work or school/college of course. That's a kind of enforced community. Our neighbours at home we can ignore most of the time if we want to, but we can't do that at work or school. We all share something in common, perhaps we share a lot more than neighbours do, but we are forced to be together and have to moderate our true selves in order to 'fit in' much of the time. I'm sure anyone else who works will know how the blood boils when colleagues are inconsiderate, but you have to bite your tongue!

But then we also have communities where we share interests. People into sports form teams, or they go to matches together. You get church groups who meet up every week. You even get shared understanding in small ways such as when out walking, other walkers will say "hello" as you pass one another on a footpath. This is just another community with a shared interest. We aren't neighbours or colleagues thrown together through circumstance, and just because we don't (usually :) ) physically meet, doesn't mean that what we do is necessarily strange in any way. We are still socialising in the same way as any other community, it's just a new way of doing it!

What's freaky about that? :)

[alatar]

I'm sure anyone else who works will know how the blood boils when colleagues are inconsiderate, but you have to bite your tongue!

Oh! Am I embarrassed - my face is glowing a hot red! So you're supposed to bite your own tongue!?! :p

Well, that explains my coworkers' anti-social - bordering on hostile - attitudes towards me. Huh...All this time I thought that it was due to my interest in Tolkien.

It's amazing what you can learn here.

[Dimturiel]

Fortunately I come from a family that completely adores Tolkien, so I am considered normal there. But outside the family it is a bit hard and I sometimes feel out of place. Except for a friend of mine, I know no other Tolkien fan. And most of my classmates have not even seen the movie. They tend to look at me as if I was a nut and ask me questions such as: "Why are you reading that book again? Why have you watched the movies so many times? Why do you like Aragorn so much. He does not even exist." Like I did not know, but they have to rub it in :rolleyes: . I used to mind but recently I have stopped caring. And also, my best friend says that she thinks that a person that can like something so much should be admired and not considered a weirdo. And this I say to you all: you are great and special because of your love for the works of an extremely special person.

[Encaitare]

I heard the term "freaks" used on this forum because of the proper grammar, puntuation and spelling here.

Oh, how I hate that. My sister thinks I'm insane because I speak like an intelligent human being and not a valley girl or something of the like. Let us be glad, for this is our refuge in which fair language is valued!

[Lush]

Do we realize how crazy we are?

Yep.

[Boromir88]

The way as I've always seen things is I just don't care what people think of me and I've always been this way. Even through highschool, my mom would be like...."Get this shirt, it's what all the kids wear." And I'd simply just say I'm getting something I'm comfortable in, doesn't matter what it is (no I did not get a skirt! :p )

Anyway, I simply act the way I want to act, and if someone doesn't like it that's fine by me.

I DO appreciate all those who are sort of in the same boat with me (and the one's who have appreciated what I've had to write) and I respect those who do not agree with me, as long as they have a reasonable explanation and support it. :)

Well, I'm done with my deep thoughtful self-analysis post for the day.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Our dedication to Tolkien's works and the amount of time we spend on this site as part of a virtual community may seem crazy to others who don't share our interest. (And let me tell those of you who feel misunderstood by their parents that it can also work the other way around! ;) ) However, have you ever realized how much we're learning while we're having fun here?

How many books have you read to keep up with discussions, that you might not otherwise have read? (I know I've delved into the Sil, UT, HoME, to say nothing of the biography, Letters, Fonstad's atlas, and various literary evaluations because of recommendations given on threads here - and because I wanted to know what everyone was talking about!)

How often have you checked the dictionary to find out what a word means that was used in one of Tolkien's books, a discussion here - or even in the personal title of another member?!

How much effort have you put into correct spelling, grammar, punctuation, and expression when writing posts? Aside from the fact that we have rather strict rules about appropriate posting here, if you've written any contributions that you wanted taken seriously, you've probably done your best to make them readable - and understandable. (Besides, any mistakes you make are liable to get caught and posted on the Typo or Homophone threads!)

How about argumentation skills? Have you looked up quotes to counter one of davem's arguments, or thought of reasons in order to give Saucepan a run for his money? You wouldn't have gotten far without backing up what you say - preferably, trying to prove it.

And deductive skills, if you've attempted to solve one of Squatter's Cryptic Clues...

If English is not your native language, have you noticed that posting and reading here has improved your knowledge and grasp of its usage? Those who have been around long enough to compare older and newer posts by long-standing members do notice! (I can see a marked improvement in my active English vocabulary, which is for the most part unused in my real daily life.)

How about creative writing skills? If you've taken part in an RPG regularly or even posted on one of the inns or party threads sporadically, you've used and likely improved yours. (I know I have - I never wrote fiction, except for school assignments many, many moons ago, and here I am, writing both serious and parody RPGs, to say nothing of a fan fiction.)

I'm the first to admit that the Downs has an addictive effect and that not all time I spend here is invested in the improvement of my skills and character - but the side effects are generally beneficial, aren't they?!

Besides that, laughing is healthy, so even the fun we have here is good for us!

[Glirdan]

Your entirely right Esty. Because of this site, we are not only have fun and talking about something we all like and have in common, but we are also being educated. We are learning more about Tolkien's world when we rad other of his works but we are also learning new words to enhance (man I haven't used that word in a written scentence for awhile) our vocabulary. I've had to use the dictionary (or my parents) to find a word I don't know. I wonder. Was it B-W's intention for us to learn as well as have fun? Only he can answer, I guess.

[Holbytlass]

All hail The Barrow-wight the 'pied-piper' who brought us to this fine place of learning, sharing, growing and laughing.
I realize how crazy I am because of the very few people in my life who have seen the movies and even fewer who have read the book (LOTR only) give me weird looks when I try to delve deep with them. So I very much appreciate here.
And Mr. Holbytlass (love the idea and stole it from Alatar, but isn't mine an oxymoron?) realizes how crazy I am because he witnesses the hours logged on to 'Barrow-Downs' and that's all there is in computer history :D.
Oh, and don't get him started on the werewolf game!

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Our dedication to Tolkien's works and the amount of time we spend on this site as part of a virtual community may seem crazy to others who don't share our interest. (And let me tell those of you who feel misunderstood by their parents that it can also work the other way around! ;) )


I can vouch for that! My daughter when introducing me, often tacked on a 'she's addicted to Tolkien' to the end on her speech. But the whispering among the members of my immediate family have lulled. And it has helped that my daughter now a 'cool' friend who also shares her Mom's interest.

Mr. Bracegirdle has even stopped inquiring if I'll ever make an income from all the writing. He had been joking of course, but I hadn't realized how rusty my brain had become. It is strange how being 'dead' can bring one back to life again!

[Orominuialwen]

Being a member here is definitely one of the most educational and valuable experiences I've ever had, in many different ways.

I can definitely say that my vocabulary has improved since joining here from people's PTs alone. If it weren't for the 'Downs, I would probably have never known words such a diaphanous, desultory, eidolon, and maundering. I've certainly learned more about literature than I ever did doing things like analizing the symbolism in Lord of the Flies in English class last year. My typing skills have improved drastically (although they're still bad enough that I have to edit nearly every post, but it used to be worse.) My writing has imroved as well.

There are other, less academic things I've learned. If I wasn't a member here, I'd probably only know a handful of people who lived more than thirty miles away, much less on the far side of the world. I understand other cultures a bit better now, thanks to knowing people from them. I've even learned to play the penny whistle better, thanks to something I read on mark 12_30's website.

All in all, if I weren't obsessed with LotR, I would never have met all you wonderful people, and I would never have the experience of finding an inbox full of lovely happy birthday PMs that make me feel better after a rather bad day. I love you all!

[tallbarrow]

I don't care what other people say. Why would any of us spend so much time or any time on this site? Yes, I'm here, so I can't say a whole lot, but it is kinda crazy on how much time is spent on this site by people. But I don't care, I like it and that's all that matters!

[Lhunardawen]

I realize how crazy I am because of the very few people in my life who have seen the movies and even fewer who have read the book (LOTR only) give me weird looks when I try to delve deep with them. So I very much appreciate here. I know exactly what you mean, Holby. I can recall quite a number of times when I'm sitting inside the classroom while waiting for my prof, and to make productive use of the time I try to compose my CbC posts. Someone is bound to ask me, "What are you doing? Do we have a homework?" and when they find out what I'm doing, they'll say something along the lines of 'addict'. Not that I'm insulted. :) But it's another thing when someone asked me to analyze The Catcher in the Rye for his English class when he found out I analyze LotR!

[Glirdan]

School starts tomorow for me and I'm probably going to be sitting in clas thinking "Who accused me today of being a werecreature?" But I love this site and I'm glad that I met tons of other Tolkien/LotR fans.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I discovered today that this website is going to be invaluable to me in my Freshmen Comp class. Our first assignment was to read pages 3-30something and write a narrative in the style of Mark Twain. In any case, as I started reading, I realized that what I was "learning" was already things I'd learned here!

The first page discusses subject matter and audience of your writing. I've already learned about this by posting both in Mirth (often) and Books (less often, recently). In Mirth, things are far more loose and the writing is often directed to a younger (or at least goofier ;)) audience. We learn to play with words, to write with tone, to even use well-placed one liners. In Books, we've learned to write in a way that can prove davem wrong. :D Which brought me to page four of the reading: research.

How many of us have learned the best ways to cite quotations or ideas? Who here learned that if you are quoting your own book, you should supply not just the title, but the page number, and most importantly, the edition? How many of us have reread what inspired us, just to make sure we've got our facts right? Checked up on ourselves with alternate sources?

How many of us have written posts that are either compelling, clever, or at least organized... occasionally for the sole purpose of trying to impress some of the oldsters? I know that I have, and I know that learning how to write a good post in Books is already helping me with writing a good paper in Comp.

And how many of us have learned that the edit button is our best friend?

So though we may be crazy to some... they are the ones that are going to miserably fail their writing, literature, analyzation, public speaking, and philosophy classes. :)

[Gurthang]

How many of us have written posts that are either compelling, clever, or at least organized... occasionally for the sole purpose of trying to impress some of the oldsters? I know that I have, and I know that learning how to write a good post in Books is already helping me with writing a good paper in Comp.

True that.

I hadn't really considered the educational value of being on the Barrowdowns until Estelyn brought it up, and now Fea's post just adds to how grateful I am. Personally, looking back at the couple of years I've been on this forum, I can see that I have not only improved my literary skills, but also my people skills. I don't even know how much I used to just throw out random posts with no regard to how people would take them. Now I am much more concerned with 'Does this sound angry?' or 'Will this make people want to read it all?' or even 'How can I make this argument not sound purely spiteful?'

Most of us seem comfortable with the fact that others consider us crazy. Now has that affected us at all? I personally would like to think that I am a more considerate person due to what I mentioned above. Going along with that is tolerating other people's 'crazy' obsessions and not looking at them like freaks(Even though they look at us that way :rolleyes: ).

Still, having said all that, I think that the Barrowdowns is much more worth the time(educational value) than a lot of other forums out there! :D

(500 posts! Whoo-Hoo! :D *opens champange and sprays it everywhere*)

[Durelin]

Just as a comment on Esty's post, and the general discussion about 'educationalness' really... The Barrow-Downs has been largely responsible for improvement in my writing over the past 3 years. It ain't much, but...comparatively, the difference is huge.

It also helped me with my social incompetence...or worsened it...I'm not sure... ;)

[the guy who be short]

One finds that one is much more likely to come across the impersonal pronoun on the Downs. In real life, one fears that use of the aforementioned pronoun could result in ostracisation due to a general belief that one is either pretentious or in some way connected to the Royalty, both traits that are likely to make one quite unpopular.

But seriously, it's oddly nice to use formal language and see it so commonly in use.

Yes, maybe I am nuts. Who cares?

[The Saucepan Man]

Yes, maybe I am nuts.Surely you mean: Forsooth, perchance one is nuts ... ;)

[The Only Real Estel]

Anyway, I simply act the way I want to act, and if someone doesn't like it that's fine by me.

Exactly. Take it or leave it, 'cause chances are slim that I will change it.

I suppose my 'craziness' probably grew a bit during the WW games I was able to play in. It's so wierd to have to turn down going to a movie because, "I still haven't voted yet", or not go out to eat because, "I have to see if I've been killed or not." But being on the forum is worth any grief you might get over it, & I personally don't get much.

Estelyn brought up a great point about how educational the forums are & Gurthang & others have made great points about how it's helped their writing/social skills. It has helped my writing (to a degree :p), but it's helped me to think about the other person's point of view also. You may not agree with what they're saying, but that doesn't mean you can't try to understand it.

I realize how 'crazy' I might seem to others but, on the whole, I think my 'crazy' is probably better than their 'normal'. :D

[Valesse]

We (and by we I mean Barrow-Wight) have definately made a grand little culture for ourselves on this forum, what with our common love for the written word and fantastic realm building. It seems that we've (again I mean Barrow-Wight) a place where we are (this time I don't mean Barrow-Wight, but do not exclude him, as that is not wise.) free to explore the imagination of one man... or at least how we preceive it.

Like all cultures when viewed from the outside we downers (again not excluding BW.) are absolute and complete lunatics who greet people into a group by mocking them with well choosen, and somehow eloquient words... if thats possible. We delight in the trivial and the theoretical where others would buy the cliff-notes... this, as I see it (and by I, I mean me; not Barrow-Wight. *wink*), does not make us freaks, but-- now this might scare some of the younger or more sensitive wights-- normal... Which just might make everything in this world of ours (And by ours I do NOT mean Barrow-Wight, and exclude him COMPLETELY. Hmpft.) just a bit more scary.

Either that or I'm doing something wrong in Anthropology class, which is more likely, weirdos ; )

[Glirdan]

We are not lunatics!! How could you say such a thing!?!? :eek: As we have clearly staed before, they are the crazy ones for not joining this awsome site! I do however agree with the fact that if all of us were pushed into our little group (I mean those that post on here frequently[ie. myslef, you Valesse, Wilwa, Gil, phantom, Enca, B-W, Eomer, Fordim, Perky, TGWBS, Saucy, morm, Kitanna, and a whole bunch of others]) and they started insulting us and making fun of us, we could probably come back with some pretty witty comebacks, that they wouldn't even understand!! GO US!!!! :D

[the guy who be short]

we could probably come back with some pretty witty comebacks, that they wouldn't even understand!! GO US!!!!Alas, quoting Tolkien at idiots is only likely to make people think we're even weirder than they thought before. And there's no point using an insult nobody can understand, eh? ;)

Now that I'm at 6th Form, I have enough free time to visit the Downs during (restricted) daylight hours. People observing this generally claim I'm weird, can you imagine? :p I reply that they should develop a scary obsession with something quaint and odd - it does one a lot of good.

Screw conformity.

[Encaitare]

Alas, quoting Tolkien at idiots is only likely to make people think we're even weirder than they thought before. And there's no point using an insult nobody can understand, eh? ;)

I can just see it...

Enca: For I also am a steward! Did you not know?
Tolkien Fans: Oooooh, snap!
Non-Tolkien Fan: I never said anything about stewards, loser. [Or, more likely, "Uhhh... what's a steward?"]

:D

[Glirdan]

I can just see it...

Enca: For I also am a steward! Did you not know?
Tolkien Fans: Oooooh, snap!
Non-Tolkien Fan: I never said anything about stewards, loser. [Or, more likely, "Uhhh... what's a steward?"]

:D

That's awsome Enca, I can so picture that!! Not only do they have no idea what the heck you're talking about and what we're laughing at, but we get the satisfaction of saying that they don't have anything better to say than loser which is such an over rated word that it's use will eventually stop!!!

[Encaitare]

That's awsome Enca, I can so picture that!! Not only do they have no idea what the heck you're talking about and what we're laughing at, but we get the satisfaction of saying that they don't have anything better to say than loser which is such an over rated word that it's use will eventually stop!!!

A word more... shall we say uncouth would probably be used instead of "loser," but I didn't want to get smited for having a potty-mouth. :rolleyes:

[Gurthang]

Screw conformity.

I couldn't agree with you more! You say so much in those few words.

When I see people doing the 'in' thing, I can only laugh. I'm usually not doing the 'in thing', and not just to be not doing the 'in thing'. All those people who do the 'in thing' have so much to worry about and often don't even really know what the 'in thing' is. I do my own thing, say screw whatever the 'in thing' is, and have way more fun being me and laughing at them. :D


On a side note, I was eating a formal dinner the other night, and my date commented on how it was fun to be 'proper'(not sure if that's the exact word, but it's about the same). That's one reason that I like this site. I can try to use more complicated sentence structure, better descriptive words, and come up with off the wall analogies, and you all don't (usually ;) ) make fun of me. It's really a lot of fun to be 'proper'. :D

[Glirdan]

Ahhhh, the "in thing". I know it well. Not that me and him personally met at all during my life time. I don't even know why people try to be, what's that word I'm looking for? Oh riggghhht!!! "Cool". What's the point of being "cool" if you can't be yourself? I like the way I am and I'm not going to change it any time soon. So, as I nomally say, if you don't like me the way I am, live with it.

[the guy who be short]

This is all really interesting to me because I just started studying Psychology this week and the first topic we did was... conformity.

We discussed how, in a sense, everybody conforms. We may not conform to the norms' point of view, but we conform on the Downs. For example, to try to fit in more, a newer member could decide to read HoME so they can quote it. So... I'm not sure why I brought this up actually. I just think the whole conformity issue is interesting, and the way we think we're independant when we're actually conforming to the rest of the Downs.

Bottom line, none of us are as crazy as we think or hope to be.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

The "in" crowd scares me. They always get caught when they're up to mischief, rarely think for themselves, and never are remembered in history books. Or even fictional ones.

Frodo of the Nine-Fingers: Mad Baggins's heir. He dreamt of adventures... most unhobbitly. He learned high Elvish. Most uncommon. He was friends with a wizard... most terrifying. He went on a quest to save the world. Most impressive. Ended his life in Middle Earth by sailing into the Uttermost West with the most divine beings around to live with them in the most perfect place around until he healed enough to die happily and go off to greener shires.

Saruman of Many Colours: Headed the White Council. Tried to be someone he was not (equal to Sauron, creator, that sort of thing), and ended up with the "most popular" one (Sauron) doing all of his thinking for him. Fell so far that all he could manage was spiteful mischief in the Shire where he got caught, got pitied, and in the end, died anyhow, hated by everyone.

Now isn't that just proof enough that you should do your own thing? I don't necessarily want to be a hero (too much publicity... I'd never get a moment's rest, what with distant relations hanging on the bell all day, and all that), but I certainly don't feel like being the pathetic little twerp in the history books that couldn't even find one decent adventure to be remembered for. :D

And if being a "Lord of the Rings nerd", or a "you're on that website AGAIN" nerd, or a "Tolkienite", or on occasion, a "Tolkienist" makes me happy, then according to my short and mediocre proof up there, it means that I'm more likely to go to Valinor than the in-crowd. How's that for encouragement? ;)

[Glirdan]

Very encouraging Fea, very encouraging indeed. I'd rather be in a history book for being me than falling in with the "in" crowd. Besides, as you said, all that happens when you're with the "in" crowd is that you get into trouble. And if excessviely liking something makes me a nerd, than I'll die with that tittle, nerd. I'd rather be a Tolkienite than someone who smokes anyday.

[Bêthberry]

This is all really interesting to me because I just started studying Psychology this week and the first topic we did was... conformity.

We discussed how, in a sense, everybody conforms. We may not conform to the norms' point of view, but we conform on the Downs. For example, to try to fit in more, a newer member could decide to read HoME so they can quote it. So... I'm not sure why I brought this up actually. I just think the whole conformity issue is interesting, and the way we think we're independant when we're actually conforming to the rest of the Downs.

Bottom line, none of us are as crazy as we think or hope to be.

A very interesting perspective, subjunctive guy. Certainly posters here don't stay long if all they produce is chat posts--Estelyn's skwerls will get them sooner or later, as will that legendary long green sword of BW and the Admins.

Nor does this site encourage picture or image additions to posts; it relies mainly on text and text of a certain style; there's a slightly tongue-in-cheek atttitude here that requires a particular light hand and those who can't get a handle on it tend not to stay very long--or tend to stay only on certain threads. And everyone here understands the hierarchy of threads, whether seriously or winkingly. Witness all the newbie and not so newbie comments about being intimidated and not wanting to post on Books or Chapter by Chapter. In fact, there's very much a sort of a testosterone-driven competitive wiff along with that sweet smell of the dead. ;)

Every community creates its own identity. In short, by coming here, we respond to all those nay-sayers "out there" and happily it seems create a style which many of them possibly cannot aspire to. (And note please what my placing of 'possibly' means. ;))

It's a society/culture/community which provides its own rewards. :smokin:

[Anguirel]

Well, Fea, thinking about it, and picking a few non-conformists:

Nienna, Ulmo, Feanor, Galadriel, Maglor, Daeron, Maeglin, Turin, Elendil, Arvedui, Frodo...

they don't always seem to get happiness. Still, at least they get lovely FAME!

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Well, Fea, thinking about it, and picking a few non-conformists:

Nienna, Ulmo, Feanor, Galadriel, Maglor, Daeron, Maeglin, Turin, Elendil, Arvedui, Frodo...

they don't always seem to get happiness. Still, at least they get lovely FAME!
But they do good. And they create beautiful things. They are artists, m'boy.

Feanor created the Silmarilli. What truer art can you find than that which can never be forgotten? He captured light... that is simply amazing. Flashlights just don't hold up to many-faceted jewels. (note to self: think more about he Arkenstone and it's connexions).

Galadriel preserved art... she was more of the museum care-taker than the artist herself, and she kept at least part of the world a safe and beautiful place. She may not have been truly happy, but she was good, and she was kind. She understood things, and though that tends to be a sure way to breed cynicism, pessimism, and a whole lot of depression, Galadriel never lost hope.

Daeron created song. Must I say more?

Turin... well... fate dealt him one heck of a hand, I must say. But he made the world a safer place, yes?

It is not the fame that I think about, but the cause of it. As I have said before... I do not want to be remembered... I want my deeds to be.

Oh, and here's another thing. Perhaps all of your examples are conforming to Eru's will. Hm? What say you to that. Maybe the reason they aren't happy is because they know that they have no free will. They're too busy serving a higher purpose. How d'ya like them apples? :p

[Anguirel]

Oh, I agree, I agree. Most of those names happen to be among my favourites. Just saying that getting to Valinor through eccentricity isn't always a solid bet. But getting into song and story pretty much is.

[the guy who be short]

The "in" crowd scares me. They always get caught when they're up to mischief, rarely think for themselves...A little harsh, don't you think? Just because you're conformist, doesn't mean you're automatically a delinquent. Delinquents don't account for the majority of the population, at least that I've seen.

all that happens when you're with the "in" crowd is that you get into trouble.Again, you seem to have a different idea of general conformity than I do. The majority of people I know, while conforming to fashion and music and the such-like, manage to stay out of trouble. Do I simply live in some sort of Utopia? :confused:

I'd rather be a Tolkienite than someone who smokes anyday.It's perfectly possible to be both. I don't approve of smoking, but it doesn't automatically make somebody a conformist, or an idiot, or a delinquent.

But they do good.Non-conforming doesn't automatically make them good, though. I don't think our lack of normalcy (;)) makes us any better than people who all, for example, avidly follow Big Brother. It just makes us different.

[Glirdan]

Yes, it does make us different, uniquely differnet at that. But tell me, who here doesn't like being differnet? If we weren't all different and everybody acted and look the same, this world would be a boring place! I perfer being differnet then being the same as everybody else. I love expressing my individuality and telling people how much I like LotR. I like dressing differently because that also expresses what kind of person you are inside. So for me, when I'm on this site, I act pretty much the same way I do when I'm around my friends. CRAZY!!! The only thing that's different is that I'm writing to you guys and I'm not using abreviated words like I would when I'm on MSN.

Again, you seem to have a different idea of general conformity than I do. The majority of people I know, while conforming to fashion and music and the such-like, manage to stay out of trouble. Do I simply live in some sort of Utopia?

That's quite possible TGWBS. But what I meant is that if to be "cool" you have to smoke, then I'd rather not do that. I'd do the complete opposite and express myself. And yes, you're right. Smoking doesn't automatically make you a conformist, idiot or delinquent.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

There might be those who think that the study of Tolkien's works could encourage smoking... ;)

Thanks, tgwbs, for the reminder that different does not necessarily mean better or worse, just different!

[Lalwendë]

Every community creates its own identity.

The idea of communities and how they form fascinates me, but even more interesting are the 'rules' which are then created. We do have unwritten rules here, such as accepted ways of writing posts (and there are several), how to approach the issue of someone is basing an argument on incorrect information etc. We also get to know one another, and learn when it is acceptable to have a joke about another member and when they will not tolerate it. For myself, it was a gradual learning process; I was cagey at first and then gradually eased myself into the 'Downs culture. Others pick up the culture much more quickly.

Non-conforming doesn't automatically make them good, though. I don't think our lack of normalcy makes us any better than people who all, for example, avidly follow Big Brother. It just makes us different.

Everyone has their obsession, even the so-called 'normal' people have 'em, whether it be following footie or watching soaps. In fact, I'd worry if someone didn't have a passion for something other than themselves!

Now, about actually trying to be 'different' - it doesn't work in my opinion. You could decide you will follow a particular 'alternative' way of life or fashion but inevitably someone else will be following it too. And you could to all outward appearances be entirely 'ordinary' but have extraordinary interests. The best thing to do, in my opinion, is just to be yourself, as we only get one shot at life (unless you believe in reincarnation of course) so we may as well be happy. :)

There might be those who think that the study of Tolkien's works could encourage smoking...

If I was to quit (which will be an inevitable thing at some stage :( ) I'd have to quit reading about Hobbits for a while or I'd go spare reading about all that lovely pipeweed. :(

[Gurthang]

Now, about actually trying to be 'different' - it doesn't work in my opinion. You could decide you will follow a particular 'alternative' way of life or fashion but inevitably someone else will be following it too. And you could to all outward appearances be entirely 'ordinary' but have extraordinary interests.


Exactly. I said earlier that I didn't like it when people went with the crowd. I guess it's not so much that they go with the crowd, it's that they go with it just to be in the crowd, aka doing the 'in thing'. If people happen to do the 'in thing' because that's seriously what they enjoy, then more power to them. It's the people who are being fake and do what everyone else does just to fit in. It just doesn't work; people see through you and know you're fake.

So I guess conformity is not wholly a bad thing. Conforming to the Downs is a very fun thing, because I truly enjoy posting here. So it's really about motive rather than action.

[alatar]

Now, about actually trying to be 'different' - it doesn't work in my opinion. You could decide you will follow a particular 'alternative' way of life or fashion but inevitably someone else will be following it too. And you could to all outward appearances be entirely 'ordinary' but have extraordinary interests. The best thing to do, in my opinion, is just to be yourself, as we only get one shot at life (unless you believe in reincarnation of course) so we may as well be happy. :)

Just a thought: Sometimes the whole 'different' thing is just a way to protect oneself. When you act strangely, weird or 'counter,' you might be using that to keep people from approaching you. People can be scary (I'm told that all of the time, right before they reach for the pepper spray...), and so by being odd, you can keep the world at a distance.

Not that that's all bad, yet you don't want to be so different as to always be alone. Sure, you can do it, but life's more fun with someone (is somemany a word?) with whom to share it. One of the cool things about this time is that you can find others easily who are different like you. Imagine wanting to 'talk Tolkien' without access to the internet! That could be one of the reasons that there're voices in my head...

Anyway, be yourself, be with others with whom you can be yourself, and don't be afraid to show people your differences as they might be Tolkien nuts too, but they just might not know it yet.