The Silmarillion Survivor

[Anguirel]

Votes

Uldor & co.-5
Mandos, Doom of-3
Azaghal-1
Hurin-1
Glaurung-1

RESULTS OF DAY FIVE (M-e)

Caranthir was strolling off to visit his vassal Uldor one evening. He entered the door into the chief's hall, but, hearing a whispered conversation, waited in the semi-darkness, listening intensely.

Uldor and his brothers were talking to a black-robed, hooded figure.

"Yes, yes," Uldor said, "absolutely. Easily done. I'll just keep Maedhros delaying until the army of Hithlum is wellnigh destroyed..."

"Good," said the cloaked man, who bore an uncanny resemblance to the phantom. "That is...acceptable." Suddenly he changed into a hideous bat, and flew out into the night through one of the windows.

Caranthir did not wait for an explanation. He rushed forward with a drawn broadsword and hacked the sons of Ulfang into pieces...

RESULTS OF THE CHALLENGE

Ulfang had sworn he had known nothing of his sons' treachery, and so was permitted to march to war beside Caranthir. The Union of Maedhros was drawing rich fruit. Fingon of Hithlum had answered; Azaghal of Belegost; Hurin of Dor-Lomin; Idril of Gondolin...

When Idril and Maeglin had returned from the Bragollach, Maeglin had been so severely burnt by dragon-fire that it seemed unlikely he could live. His face was a charred, black wreck. On seeing his son, Eol had fallen on Anguirel. But Aredhel had taken Maeglin and nursed him, though Idril assured her he was doomed.

He was not. He returned to life, and crafted a silver mask, with which he hid his ruined face. Then he returned to Idril's side; but she avoided him. He returned to the solitude of Nan Elmoth, and practised the art of combat. And Aredhel died of grief.

So it was that Idril did not bring her cousin to the Nirnaeth.

And so the battle began. The killing of Gelmir goaded Fingon and Hurin into battle; and they faced Eonwe, the Dark Herald. Numbers began to overpower them; but still Maedhros' host did not come...his scheme revealed, Ulfang had resorted to darker means, and had turned on the Sons of Feanor with all his men to delay them by force of arms, reinforced by many Orcs.

Glaurung now charged Maedhros' line; but Azaghal defied him, and though he was slain and the Dwarves bore him away, the Dragon fled.

Now Sauron and a band of werewolves hurled themselves deep into Hurin's army, hiding themselves. The Men of Dor-Lomin managed to lynch enough to drive them back, however...

As Idril's troops arrived to reinforce Fingon, Eonwe struck him down; and Beleg and Mablung, the only fighters of Doriath present, assumed command temporarily. Eonwe retreated, his army battered, but a new one forayed from Angband...

On the right flank where Maedhros fought, Caranthir fell, stabbed in the back, to the vengeance of Ulfang. Maglor avenged him speedily. Bor and his sons had also perished in the press. Overwhelmed by numbers, the four remaning sons of Feanor cut their way from the fray.

Now Hurin and Huor, determined to save the army of Gondolin, fought a last stand while it retreated; and at last defied Morgoth's hosts alone.

But now came unexpected aid at the last; a new force of Dwarves, from Nogrod, with an Elf at their head, in a strange silver mask...Morgoth was forced to send out Eonwe once more; and Hurin and the masked Elf slew him together. The Elf's sword shone gleaming black...as the Orcs fell back in dismay, the Elf and the Dwarves retired. But Hurin pressed on, seized by victory; till Huor fell, and Hurin was surrounded...

The contestants:

Tribes

VALAR

Elbereth
Ulmo
Mandos, Doom of

NOLDOR

Maedhros
Maglor
Celegorm
Celebrimbor
Curufin
Ereinion
Idril
Maeglin
Orodreth
Finduilas

TELERI/SINDAR

Olwe
Thingol
Celeborn
Galadriel
Mablung
Beleg
Eol

MAIA/ELF

Luthien

MAIA

Melian
Uinen
Tilion (with Moon)
Arien (with Sun)

DWARVES

Telchar of Nogrod
Mim the Petty-dwarf
Khim
Ibun

MEN

Beren
Dior
Hurin
Tuor
Morwen
Turin
Nienor
Haldir
Handir

FORCES OF EVIL

Morgoth
Sauron
Glaurung
Ancalagon (adolescent...)
Morgoth, Curse of

No new challenge till Wednesday.

[The 1,000 Reader]

Wouldn't it be hard to hang a mass amount of werewolves during a battle? Good work, though.

[Gothmog]

Hmmm...very interesting progress. What I don't understand is why Ang had Gothmog the Great and Forever Beloved die before Nirn. I'm sure he could have spiced it up.

And Caranthir died? I'm shocked Ang! Shocked but happy, chocked that it was you who got him killed and happy because there's one less of the evil Cs.

It was good two see two of my favourites, Mablung of the Heavy Hand and Beleg Cúthalion lead the troops.
Now Hurin and Huor, determined to save the army of Gondolin, fought a last stand while it retreated; and at last defied Morgoth's hosts alone.
And what a mighty sight they must have been! Wish one could be there to watch! Somewhere in the rear ranks...far away from danger...or rather watch in on TV ;)

Now what could be the next challenge? My guess is something Turambaristic. Time for the most tragic character ever presented to show himself. But the sword Maeglin wielded in this version of Nirn, was it Anglachel aka Gurthang or was it Anguirel? My guess is our dear Mod would like Anguirel to play a significant role in this story, so here's the comeback of the neglected twin-sword!

I guess, as there's no voting to do, I had to write something to comment the latest events, though most of it was unnecessary to put in print. You have to do something to make your time go :p

[Anguirel]

The contestants: (clarified, I forgot to remove the suicided Eol or add dear old Brodda the Easterling)

Tribes

VALAR

Elbereth
Ulmo
Mandos, Doom of

NOLDOR

Maedhros
Maglor
Celegorm
Celebrimbor
Curufin
Ereinion
Idril
Maeglin
Orodreth
Finduilas

TELERI/SINDAR

Olwe
Thingol
Celeborn
Galadriel
Mablung
Beleg

MAIA/ELF

Luthien

MAIA

Melian
Uinen
Tilion (with Moon)
Arien (with Sun)

DWARVES

Telchar of Nogrod
Mim the Petty-dwarf
Khim
Ibun

MEN

Beren
Dior
Hurin
Tuor
Morwen
Turin
Nienor
Haldir
Handir
Brodda

FORCES OF EVIL

Morgoth
Sauron
Glaurung
Ancalagon (adolescent...)
Morgoth, Curse of

The new, fifth challenge: A Dor-Lomin Adan at King Thingol's Court. Make sure Turin's time at Doriath is pleasantly angsty.

ADDENDUM: That Gothmog's a shrewd one. Everything he said is quite right...and it was Anguirel...

[Lalaith]

Hmmm....Mablung or Melian seem the obvious choices here.....actually what about evicting Finduilas? I know that means Turin gets to avoid some grief once he leaves Doriath, but as the challenge is to make his time actually *in* Doriath more difficult, presumably he'll be a bit more miserable without his fan-girl.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

How about Beleg Strongbow?

Or even Morwen. :eek:
Remove her and he would get really antsy
about leaving Doriath to save his sister.

[The Saucepan Man]

Doh! We shouldn't have voted off Saeros!

Although, I am glad that we did, because I can't stand him.

The principal candidates seem to have been identified.

Melian: A moderating influence on Thingol. However, my impression is that he would still have looked favourably on Turin, given the opportunity, even without her counsel.

Mablung and Beleg: Not the only Elves who were friendly to Turin in Doriath. Probably made his life there easier, but were more instrumental in providing him with help and friendship after he had left Doriath.

Finduilas: Not sure how here removal will make his life more difficult while he is still in Doriath.

Morwen and Nienna: Well we surely can't lose Nienna now, but I can see how the removal of Turin's mother would heighten his concern for his sister, and therefore his angst levels, while in Doriath.

Morwen seems like a good candidate to me, although I expect Lalaith to oppose her removal. ;)

As an alternative, I'd be happy to vote for whichever candidate would, by his or her removal, annoy Anguirel the most. :p Problem is, it's difficult to work up an argument for any of his favourites ...

Unless, the eviction of someone like Curufin might be seen as removing a buffer against Morgoth's forces, thereby threatening the security of Doriath and making it less of a "safe haven" for Turin. Any thoughts on that from anyone?

PS I am still mourning the loss of Huan. If only I had been around to stick up for him. How could you all vote off such a loyal, faithful and intelligent hound. :(

[Lalaith]

Not sure how here removal will make his life more difficult while he is still in Doriath
Sorry, I forgot that Finduilas was at Nargothrond, not Doriath. Still a drippy girl, though. But I concur that evicting her won't really help us with the task.

I see your reasoning Saucie but I would really, really prefer it if Morwen weren't thrown off. She's one of my favorite people...

[The Saucepan Man]

I see your reasoning Saucie but I would really, really prefer it if Morwen weren't thrown off. She's one of my favorite people...Fair enough. I have nothing against her. She just seems the most suitable candidate, given the task.

What do you think about my fledgling reasoning on Curufin, then? Might that be a runner?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

My first thought was that Beleg would be the best target as he is proberbly the one closest too Turin, but removing him would spare Turin frome great sorrow later on.

I guess Saucepan Man is right about Morwen beeing sutabel.

I would prefer to remove Morwen over Curufin any day, to tell you the truth: I am rathe annoyed with her.

[Lalaith]

I still think Mablung would be a good choice. Or what about Brodda? If he doesn't marry Aerin, she can't succour Morwen and Nienor in secret, and that will worry Turin greatly.
I need my Unfinished Tales I think for more Narn detail...or is that not allowed?

[Tuor of Gondolin]

"what about Brodda? If he doesn't marry Aerin, she can't succour Morwen and Nienor in secret,"
=============
Ah, Lalaith is tricksey. Brodda's an interesting surprise candidate
(and about as unlikable as Saeros).

[Gothmog]

Ah! Our beloved mod is back! Welcome!

As usual, SpM hits right at the core of the problem, and makes it so muck easier for the others. Morwen seems like a good alternative so far.

I wouldn't hesitate to vote for Curufin. It's been my goal since the first post here, which I hope I made clear. But this time it seem a bit off the task. But still, if people vote for him I don't care about the task :) I will fight for Beleg Cuthalion though. He's one of my favourites and I'm not letting him go now! Besides, I don't see any point in doing that.

Brodda might work too. After all, his an easterling nobody really cares about anyway... But wasn't the slaying of Brodda one of the big "sins" of Turin? He killed him and his guest because of his anger towards the spell of Glaurung and the way it had deluded him. Well, he's a good choice anyway. But I'd prefer choosing Morwen. Like Rune, I've never liked her. But of course we must consider Lalaith feelings. Is it just me or is Lalaith defending every woman?;)

But if you, Saucepan Man, has a way to irritate ous dear mod, I'm definitely going to back you up. But it should be in a way that's beneficial for our task.

[Eonwe]

Completely agreed. Anyone that votes for Beleg Strongbow (most noble of friends, most trusted of advisers) should be sumarily lynched.

Morwen sounds good. Curufin also sounds good. But, alas, that's only because he's Curufin.

I don't know, if i was watching this on tv, i'd have thrown something through the screen, found a crudgle, and stalked out to find our mod. ;) just kidding of course.

EDIT: on second thought, what we're really after is to find whoever makes Turin happy and send them to the Void, right? The person that made him happiest (while in Beleriand) was Nienna, was it not. Or was that his other sister? i can't remember. either way, im sure that she brightened his day, and id much rather see her go that morwen.

[The Saucepan Man]

Or what about Brodda? If he doesn't marry Aerin, she can't succour Morwen and Nienor in secret, and that will worry Turin greatly.What, take out the guy who's giving Turin's mother such grief? I hardly think that's going to upset him too much.

I think that there's mileage in my theory on Curufin. It seems that the remaining sons of Feanor are providing a bulwark against Morgoth's armies to the north. Take out one of them and the bulwark's weakened. It won't be too long before those very same armies are encamped right outside Doriath. And that's gotta be bad for Turin's state of well-being.

So, partly for that reason, but mostly because he's Anguirel's favourite, I shall vote:

++CURUFIN

:D

Although I'm not holding much hope out for Morwen ...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I think that there's mileage in my theory on Curufin. It seems that the remaining sons of Feanor are providing a bulwark against Morgoth's armies to the north. Take out one of them and the bulwark's weakened. It won't be too long before those very same armies are encamped right outside Doriath. And that's gotta be bad for Turin's state of well-being.

So, partly for that reason, but mostly because he's Anguirel's favourite, I shall vote:

++CURUFIN


I do not recall Turin being angst for the safty of Doriath, in a way that would make it horribel for him if Curufin were to disapear. It would only give him more time with Beleg at the borders of Doriath.

As to the Anguire argument, well you just cannot argue agains that. . .l :D

I still think Morwen would be the best choise.

[arcticstorm]

I would like to propose another theory about what would make his life more difficult, what if we were to remove from power the elf who addopts him as his own son? I say we remove KIng Thingol from power, that definately will make his life in Doriath much more difficult
++Thingol

[The Saucepan Man]

I do not recall Turin being angst for the safty of Doriath, in a way that would make it horribel for him if Curufin were to disapear. It would only give him more time with Beleg at the borders of Doriath.Orc raiding parties are one thing. Morgoth's army camped on the doorstep is another proposition altogether. Hardly likely to make one sleep sound in one's bed at night.

But, as I said, it's mostly because I know Anguirel desperately wants Curufin to stay. The way I see it, Ang has had quite an easy time of coaxing the story to go the way that he wants it to go. Which makes it easy for him. I think that he will appreciate the challenge if we make it slightly more difficult. ;)

Plus I don't like being "told" what to do. :D

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

The way I see it, Ang has had quite an easy time of coaxing the story to go the way that he wants it to go.

Well I have not been following this survivor, since I got hooked on WWJ II so I would not know. (and I am not in the mood to read the whole thread)

But for some reason I find The Saucepan Man trust worthy! so therefore. . .

++Curufin

[Lalaith]

Is it just me or is Lalaith defending every woman?
Yes, Gothmog, it's just you. I've put up both Melian and Finduilas as possible eviction candidates today.
I'm not convinced about Curufin either. It seems a bit pointlessly mean.

[Gothmog]

Sorry Lalaith :)

As for Curufin, I too see it as a bit useless in this task, but after all it's my arch-enemy Curufin we're talking about. And to make Ang suffer a bit sounds like a good plan ;) I fear we'll be punished for this, but it's worth it...

++Curufin

And too prove I'm not only bandwaggoning read for example my first post (#25) (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=421464&postcount=25) , #33 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=421482&postcount=33) and most important #63 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=421755&postcount=63)

Finally I get my chance! Feel the wrath of the Valarauka Anguirel!

[Anguirel]

Allow me to defend poor little Curufin, now the youngest of the sons of Feanor...

I think that there's mileage in my theory on Curufin. It seems that the remaining sons of Feanor are providing a bulwark against Morgoth's armies to the north. Take out one of them and the bulwark's weakened. It won't be too long before those very same armies are encamped right outside Doriath. And that's gotta be bad for Turin's state of well-being.

Tosh for these reasons-

1. As mentioned a bove, Turin likes having lots of Orcs nearby to hunt

2. More importantly-the four Sons of Feanor are bulwarks no more. Himring and Thargelion have been abandoned after the Nirnaeth, and Himlad was destroyed after the Bragollach long ago, when Maglor's Gap also fell. The Sons of Feanor, "scattered like leaves", now wander landless in Ossiriand. They still have military power, but they have no possessions on land and are in no position to stop the advance of Morgoth's armies.

Your "legit" argument thus invalidated, you are left with this-

So, partly for that reason, but mostly because he's Anguirel's favourite

to which I cry mercy with this

I'm not convinced about Curufin either. It seems a bit pointlessly mean.

I remind you that I have just, at immense spiritual cost, killed Caranthir of my own free will. If Curufin goes now, so undeservedly, I shall probably go stark raving mad and mangle Beleg and Mablung in a terrifying accident with Melian's lawnmower.

For myself, I agree that Thingol should be considered a strong candidate. A palace revolution destabilises childhoods like nothing else. Thingol was essentially kind and paternal to Turin, while Melian may leave with him, depriving Doriath of her Girdle. Dior or Beren might succeed, probably leading to some kind of edginess between the two lines of Men...

++THINGOL

[Gothmog]

Anguirel is right of course. But it's hard to resist the temptation of voting out Curufin. The one thing that might hold me back is the fact that there's no honour in getting rid of him without a good reason. But on the other hand Ang can make sure we never get a good reason by deciding the tasks.

It would feel better to defeat Anguirel with own rules and the rules of the game. I'm not sure of what to do. If there's a good alternative presented with good reasoning behind, I'm prepared to switch from Curufin...for this time. I won't be happy to do so, but that could be the "right" thing to do :)

I'll just wait and see what happens. I'd also like to hear what Saucepan Man has to say about this.

If I'm right, this is the current status:

Curufin: 3
Thingol: 2

[The Saucepan Man]

They still have military power, but they have no possessions on land and are in no position to stop the advance of Morgoth's armies.Then they are pretty useless, aren't they? Can't see how Curufin might do anything to assist in future tasks that one of his remaining brothers could not accomplish. Whereas all of the other candidates that have been discussed have fairly unique talents which might come in handy in the future. So, I can't see much point in keeping Curufin. :p

If Curufin goes now, so undeservedly, I shall probably go stark raving mad and mangle Beleg and Mablung in a terrifying accident with Melian's lawnmower.

But on the other hand Ang can make sure we never get a good reason by deciding the tasks.You see, this is precisely the reason why I have chosen to vote for Curufin. Unless it suits my own purposes, I don't like to be manipulated (as opposed to persuaded) into voting in a way that suits the agenda of another, particularly not the show's producer. In other words, I like to exercise free will.

Remember that this is a reality game show. Voting with the tasks in mind is fair enough. But it is also perfectly permissible for viewers to vote off those contestants that they dislike, regardless of the task at hand. That's mostly how reality game shows work.

[Gothmog]

Remember that this is a reality game show. Voting with the tasks in mind is fair enough. But it is also perfectly permissible for viewers to vote off those contestants that they dislike, regardless of the task at hand. That's mostly how reality game shows work.

So be it. My vote stays.

[Celuien]

++THINGOL

Without Thingol, poor Turin will have no father figure around or anyone take him to fencing matches. Surrounded by his mother, sister and Melian, he's going to wind up being dragged to performances by the Doriath Ballet Company. Hopefully, his angst level will be increased. Plus, we'll have a power vacuum in the palace. Nothing like some old fashioned struggle for leadership to cause turmoil.

And I believe this takes the count to Curufin and Thingol tied at 3 votes each, so Ang should still be sufficently displeased.

[The Saucepan Man]

Time?

Or is this Day extra-long in order to give Curufin a better chance ...? :p ;)

[Lalaith]

Garn. I'm now left with the choice of being either vindictive or teacher's pet. I might just abstain.

[Gothmog]

Double "lynching" at tie or what?

[Anguirel]

The Day will end at 7:30 pm GMT-in precisely five hours...

A final point. The Saucepan Man, in the Saucepan Man, made a point of stressing that dull characters had to go, and interesting characters had to go. This means that we are not judging evictees on morals, or even overmuch on usefulness-we are judging them, to a large degree, on fascination.

Now-apart from the fact that his eviction would be completely irrelevant to the challenge at hand-Curufin simply cannot be called dull. He's cunning. He's a superb stage/screen villain of the old tradition.

Remember Errol Flynn's ouevre, or even The Mask of Zorro? Remember the tradition of the cool, caustic, calculating aristocrat, second to none with the rapier (except the film's hero, naturally), equipped with by far the best one liners, with the cut-glass-posh English accent? Don't we secretly feel some sympathy for him, wish he could start to beat up the big, brawny, goody-goody hero occasionally? I know I do. He is Curufin.

But Curufin is more than that. Curufin is the Talented Mr Ripley. Curufin the Crafty, Curufin who defied Elf mores to entrap Nargothrond in his cautious power-hungry speeches, Curufin who dared to carry off Little Miss Prissy-I-Can-Defeat-The-Forces-Of-Evil-By-Singing Luthien. Curufin is the mastermind, the wit, a vital part of what makes the drama of the Silmarillion succeed.

That is why I believe he will be a real loss. That is why I exhort you to listen to other sources than a piece of sentient yet spiteful kitchenware.

Vote Thingol!

PS Yes, Gothmog, both will go if there's a tie...

[The Saucepan Man]

That may be the Curufin of your imagination, Anguirel. But the Curufin of the book (and, from what I have seen, the show) looks pretty dull to me.

Any particular reason why this day is to last 17 hours ...? :p

I'm now left with the choice of being either vindictive or teacher's pet.Since most people have tended to come down on the side of teacher's pet up 'til now (remember the attempt to oust Morgoth?), it only seems fair to me to seek to redress the balance.

[Anguirel]

Oh, Saucie, Saucie, you haven't been reading between the right lines!

Yes, remember the attempt to oust Morgoth. Quite. When Saucie attempted to remove the main source of controversy and tragedy. Now he's after a smaller, but more interesting, fish.

Curufin (and Celegorm, and even Maedhros) cause strife within the side of good. Moral ambiguity. Elf against Elf. Kinslaying. So much more intriguing that heroes massacring Orcs, because it's true. It's life. It's history.

Man, or Elf, must perforce prey upon man, or Elf, like monsters of the deep, to paraphrase the Duke of Albany.

Reject Saucie's vision. It's really very twee. A happy land with hobbits breeding like rabbits and Elves living in peace and harmony. And poor old me, cheesed off and thrust into the Void...

As for the implication that I'm fiddling the times, it is quite honestly balderdash. I was occupied last night and so posted the challenge early. Days always end at seven-ish in the evening or morning; as I'd set the challenge early it's to be the evening...

[The Saucepan Man]

Oh, Saucie, Saucie, you haven't been reading between the right lines!I am not reading between any lines. I am writing my own. :p

Reject Saucie's vision. It's really very twee. A happy land with hobbits breeding like rabbits and Elves living in peace and harmony. And poor old me, cheesed off and thrust into the Void...There speaks the man who completely "de-stressed" the entire Aredhel - Eol - Maedhros - Idris thing. Talk about bringing peace and harmony where once there was strife ...

Au contraire, Ang old chap. I like dischord, disharmony and tragedy. But there are more than enough contestents left who are fully capable of bringing this about. It's the Silmarillion, after all, not Wind in the Willows. Curufin ain't gonna be missed on that count.

As for the implication that I'm fiddling the times ...Implication? Now who's reading between the lines? I was merely enquiring ... ;)

[Anguirel]

Slander! Eol-Aredhel-Idril-Maeglin was restressed in the last installment. Eol suicided, Aredhel died of grief, Idril is disgusted by Maeglin, and Maeglin is a cool Iron Mask killing machine...

Anyway, votes:

Curufin-3
Thingol-3

By the way, a day is usually 7:30am to 7:30am-to wit, 24 hours long. So this Day is actually unusually short. Unless I've mangled the maths...

Incidentally, rereading this post it sounds like I've closed voting. I haven't. It'll close at 7:30pm. Three and a half hours to save poor maligned Curu...

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Upon reflection, and going with the theme of (at least later in
his Middle-earth life) unlikable, it has to be

+ + Thingol

[The Saucepan Man]

Doh!

Here's a little something for you to bring Anguirel tomorrow, Tuor. :p ;)

[Tuor in Gondolin]

I actually didn't notice that it was a tie when voting,
but it must be said that Curufin seems to have more
lives then the cats of Queen Beruthiel.

[Gothmog]

Now Lalaith has her chance to vote! Come on, you know what you want! Ang has won nearly everything this far and his criminal protégé has been left alone for too long now! If we get both Thingol and Curufin thrown off from the game, Turin will surely suffer... Double effect ;)

And who ever votes for Curufin will get an apple from me!

[Lord Melkor]

Hmmm, after a careful review of my options and weighing the pros and cons of each removing either Curufin or Thingol, my vote goes to:

++ Thingol

Removing Thingol will eliminate Turin's father figure. There is also a high likelyhood that Melian will pack her bags and leave for Valinor, now that her precious Sindarin loverboy is gone, leaving Doriath open to attack by all kinds of unsavory creatures (like Orcs and the Sons of Feanor). Angst, angst, angst, for poor Turin! :p

[Anguirel]

It's seven minutes till closing time now, and though I was going to round up early, I'll give anti-Curufinists the remaining minutes and perhaps ten or fifteen extra to garner votes-to show I'm not manipulating the times. In truth, I'm far too chaotic to do so.

For now-

Curufin-3
Thingol-5

EDIT: Voting closed now. Sorry to thwart you Saucie; it was a close run thing and I'm sure your time will come...

[Anguirel]

RESULTS OF DAY SIX (M-e)

On the day of Midwinter, Elwe Singollo, called Elu Thingol, King of Doriath, went missing.

His brother, Olwe, was not too worried. "He's done it again. Probably chasing pretty Maia."

And though Melian seemed concerned, most ascribed this to irritation at Olwe's tactlessness.

Yet the weeks passed, and Thingol did not return.

***

In Ossiriand, Curufin was indulging in a spot of brief hunting with Celegorm. After they'd caught a stag, the brothers intended to settle to a bit of scheming. The day passed pleasantly; Curufin never knew how close he had been to vanishing together with Thingol Greycloak...

RESULTS OF THE CHALLENGE

At last, it became clear that Thingol was lost. Again. There was instant pandemonium in the court of Menegroth.

Olwe insisted that his brother would return, but offered to take up the kingship in the interim. With the backing of Celeborn and Galadriel, he seemed certain to gain the throne.

But Melian defied him. She declared that Thingol would never return, and that without her guidance Doriath was doomed. She claimed the throne, and set up her court in Menegroth itself. Mablung and Beleg supported her.

And there was a third contender now. Beren and Luthien, in right of their son Dior, now a young man, claimed the throne; and they were welcomed by the folk of Brethil, and ruled over the west of Doriath. Thus Olwe ruled in the North, at the Court of the Old King; Melian in the centre and South, at the Court of the Queen; and Dior, aided by Beren and Luthien, at the Court of the Young King in Brethil and the western forest. And Luthien wore the Silmaril. But only the Queen's Court was now protected by the Girdle.

So it was that Morwen had to decide which Doriath to send her son to. The north, ruled by Olwe, where the old Telerin laws prevailed? The Sindarin centre, ruled by Melian? Or the human and Elven realm of Dior Half-Elven? Olwe was closest; and Dior made sense because he was himself a Man. But in what Morwen heard of Melian, she recognised something of herself. And so Turin, with the help of Beleg and Mablung, was escorted into Melian's realm.

It was the safest place in Beleriand; and to a young Man this was infuriating. Olwe's realm was regularly attacked by Morgoth, and only Galadriel's power allowed it to survive. Dior's realm was always warring with the Dwarves of Nogrod and with Celegorm and Curufin, especially after the deaths of Beren and Luthien. Yet in Melian's realm all was still.

Infuriatingly still. Beleg Cuthalion felt it too; and one night, he escaped with the youth. Together they made their way to the human lands...Turin taking with him the sword Anglachel...

It's Day Seven in Middle-earth...the contestants...

Tribes

VALAR

Elbereth
Ulmo
Mandos, Doom of

NOLDOR

Maedhros
Maglor
Celegorm
Celebrimbor
Curufin
Ereinion
Idril
Maeglin
Orodreth
Finduilas

TELERI/SINDAR

Olwe
Celeborn
Galadriel
Mablung
Beleg

MAIA

Melian
Uinen
Tilion (with Moon)
Arien (with Sun)

DWARVES

Telchar of Nogrod (incidentally, probably by now a different character. But with the same name. Like Durin the Deathless...)
Mim the Petty-dwarf
Khim
Ibun

MEN

Dior
Hurin
Tuor
Morwen
Turin
Nienor
Brandir
Forweg
Androg

FORCES OF EVIL

Morgoth
Sauron
Glaurung
Ancalagon (adolescent...)
Morgoth, Curse of

The last two Men, you should note, are I think only in Unfinished Tales. They're the leaders of the Gaurwaith Turin joins soon. Androg is among my favourite Men. A sort of human Curufin, hee hee...now I'll watch him get voted out. I'll remove them if people would rather I stuck to the Silmarillion proper.

Now-the seventh challenge-TURIN HOOD and LITTLE BELEG. Assist Turin's career as an outlaw!

[Lalaith]

Sorry 'bout that everyone, got tied up in RL....

[The Saucepan Man]

Assist Turin's career as an outlaw!To be a good outlaw, Turin needs notoriety. To allow him to be truly notorious, we must eliminate any serious competitors for the title.

Now, let's see. Who else is likely to be stealing some of the notoriety that Turin richly deserves? Perhaps one who might be described thus:

He's cunning. He's a superb stage/screen villain of the old tradition.

Remember Errol Flynn's ouevre, or even The Mask of Zorro? Remember the tradition of the cool, caustic, calculating aristocrat, second to none with the rapier (except the film's hero, naturally), equipped with by far the best one liners, with the cut-glass-posh English accent?Hmm. I wonder who fits that description? Perhaps further investigation will assist ...

But Curufin is more than that. Curufin is the Talented Mr Ripley. Curufin the Crafty, Curufin who defied Elf mores to entrap Nargothrond in his cautious power-hungry speeches, Curufin who dared to carry off Little Miss Prissy-I-Can-Defeat-The-Forces-Of-Evil-By-Singing Luthien. Curufin is the mastermind, the wit ...Ah yes! Curufin, of course. :D

How can Turin be a truly successful outlaw when this Curufin chappie is stealing all his limelight?

++CURUFIN

:D

[The 1,000 Reader]

Sorry for being immature, but Curufin is an stuck-up ***hole and I doubt Ang was playing fairly in the final stretch. Don't send me any rep, this is just my opinion.

++Curufin.

[Eonwe]

hee-hee! come one, come all, join on our merry bandwagon!

++Curufin

i've always hated this guy. it's nice to be able to sit back and let SpM reason it out, in true bandwagon fasion!

[The 1,000 Reader]

Amen to that. I don't care if Curufin would have made a new set of Silmarils, he is still a twisted monster who, if I am not mistaken, tried to kill Luthien, and in an underhanded manner at that.

Hop on the bandwagon downers, or else Morgoth will place a curse on you.

Send off Curufin=one pure evil snob less. Send off someone else= Ang ranting about how "great and wonderful" Curufin is.

Vote for Curufin!

[arcticstorm]

In order to be a successful outlaw leader, he needs to have less competition for the positionm, I say we vote off one of their leaders,
++Androg

[Gothmog]

Oh, guess what I'm going to vote ;)

If a villain like Curufin is removed, the outlaws will look up to Turin more and he will be the father figure of all thiefs, murderers and bandits in ME. That sounds terrific, doesn't it? People who thought of him as nothing else than a faint copy of the worst scoundrel ever (you know who) will come and join the glorious Turin King of Thiefs, Turin the Bloody, Turin the Cruel. What a reputation!

Besides, as soon as he comes near an innocent, they will give him all he wants. He won't have to kill poor peasants or slay villagers, the rumour will do the work. To remove the only threat to this greatness, a notorious villain who's been defended this far by his qualities as badguy, is the inly possible choice. Therefor:

++Curufin

[Anguirel]

Hmmm. Well, at least you're all giving Curufin his due. And you're taking him down with my reasoning, which I find amusing...

I would suggest an alternative, though, ++FORWEG-the Narn in Unfinished Tales portrays him as a thoroughly bad lot, a deserter, coward, and rapist, and as leader of the Gaurwaith, his removal will have far more actual effect on Turin's career...Curufin may be notorious, but he's also completely outside Turin's sphere of influence.

Curufin-4
Androg-1
Forweg-1

Voting will close at 7:30 pm...

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Well, it seems that there's a bit of Margaret Thatcher in Melian.
If she can only weaken Morgoth's Orc unions she could rule
all of Beleriand!!!

As for this challenge:

+ + Curufin

[Anguirel]

Oh dear, oh dear. An hour and six minutes to go, and Curufin seems doomed...ah well. 'Twas good while it lasted. Vote Forweg if you have pity!

[Lalaith]

I've been away all day so I've missed out all the bandwaggoning fun. I think it's best I stay out of this vendetta, as my vote will make no difference anyway. I'll abstain again today. I hope we can all be cheerful again tomorrow. Especially poor Ang.

[Anguirel]

Voting closed.

Curufin-5
Androg-1
Forweg-1

Curufin is expelled. Results will be following in about an hour, most likely...

[Anguirel]

RESULTS OF DAY SEVEN (M-e)

Celegorm and Curufin's alliance with Nogrod was of increasing profit to them. Dior could not hold his lands, and Brethil shrunk daily, the woods at its borders ravaged and burnt.

But one evening, Curufin, conducting a raid too deep into Dior's realm, was separated from his brother and cornered by the Peredhil's army. Dior, the Silmaril on his brow, leapt from his horse to fight the Son of Feanor, but Curufin's skill was superior by far, and the King of Brethil was disarmed. Curufin held him to the ground, his blade at the King's neck. He raised it. "You are spared, adan peasant," he remarked, coolly taking up the Silmaril...

Such agony coursed through his body. His hand was skalded. But he would not let go, not even when he was ringed with white fire, writhing in pain. So died Curufin, called the Crafty, fourth Son of Feanor, with a cold smile on his face.

RESULTS OF THE CHALLENGE

Beleg and Turin found themselves in a village where the folk cowered in fear of a band of deadly outlaws called the Gaurwaith.

"Wolf-men?" Beleg remarked. "I know this game. Who's handing out roles?"

"I am," said a hooded figure who looked vaguely familiar. "The players are Turin-"

"Neithan!" Turin pointed out.

"Alright, Neithan, Beleg, Forweg, Androg, Ulrad, various villagers, Feanor of the Peredhil and Sauron."

"Sauron looks innocent to me," said Turin. "Let's kill Feanor of the Peredhil! She doesn't exist anyway!"

"Fine by me," said Forweg. But she was innocent. That night, the wolves killed Ulrad, the Seer.

"Sauron and Androg are definitely innocent," opined Turin. "Let's lynch Beleg." And it was done. When he discovered that Beleg, his friend, was in fact the Ranger, Turin went into a black rage and killed everyone in the village except Sauron, who flew off as a bat, and Androg and Forweg, who he thought looked trustworthy. Annoyed that he still hadn't found any wolves, Turin gave up and joined the Gaurwaith.

"Neithan was the Cursed Villager," the phantom explained...

The Gaurwaith, led by Forweg, had a successful career plundering Orc and Man alike, and Turin/Neithan, armed with his Black Sword, became known as a deadly warrior...one day, seeing Forweg in mid-rape, he sliced off the man's head and became Captain of the Gaurwaith himself...

It's Day Eight in Middle-earth...the contestants...

Tribes

VALAR

Elbereth
Ulmo
Mandos, Doom of

NOLDOR

Maedhros
Maglor
Celegorm
Celebrimbor
Ereinion
Idril
Maeglin
Orodreth
Finduilas
Gwindor

TELERI/SINDAR

Olwe
Celeborn
Galadriel
Mablung

MAIA

Melian
Uinen
Tilion (with Moon)
Arien (with Sun)

DWARVES

Telchar of Nogrod (incidentally, probably by now a different character. But with the same name. Like Durin the Deathless...)
Mim the Petty-dwarf
Khim
Ibun

MEN

Dior
Hurin
Tuor
Morwen
Turin
Nienor
Brandir
Androg

FORCES OF EVIL

Morgoth
Sauron
Glaurung
Ancalagon (adolescent...)
Morgoth, Curse of

Task eight: CONSERVATION. Stop the impending extinction of the endangered Petty-Dwarves...

[arcticstorm]

I'd say we have three possibilities to survive this challenge,
first, I believe Mim to be indirectly responsible for his sons death, he was their leader, and if they did not have him they may not have been out that way, however this is a big maybe.
Second, the whole incident with Mim may have been brought on by the curse of Morgoth against Turin, no Curse, no running into the dwarves, no shooting, no death of Mim's son
Third, unless I am mistaken Androg is the one who shot Mim's son. If we get rid of him, no worries. But I am not sure about this, so I do not know who I will vote for, but I am leaning towards Mim.

[mormegil]

Well unless petty-dwarf women are created from rocks I find the procreation prospects of three male petty dwarves as rather grim but I've heard that cycles of the moon are what keep petty dwarves "in-balance" if you take my meaning so I will get rid of

++Tilion

and hope that the moon removal will help out.

[Alcarillo]

++Androg

'It is an Orc, or of Orc-kin. Kill it!'
'You need grow no older,' said Androg, stepping up with a knife in his unharmed hand. 'I can spare you that.'
And so on. Obvoiusly, Androg is the greatest threat facing the existence of the Petty-Dwarves. He would kill them all if he had the chance, and we can't let that chance come! Vote for Androg!

[The 1,000 Reader]

++Androg.

(Ah, Ang had to get in one overly done and gag-inducing post. Ah well, at least Curufin's gone. and at heart, I know that Dior killed Curufin in the books.)

[Anguirel]

Today will have to end early or late, as I'm going to the opera tonight. Tell me which you'd prefer, please, viewers...

Now. Androg seems like a good short term solution, as Alcarillo pointed out. Hurin would be another option; it is he who finishes Mim. But, as mormegil declared, we need to somehow find a way to stimulate Petty-Dwarf procreation!

mormegil's proposition of removing the negative influence of lunar patterns is...utterly...bizarre...and for that reason, I like it.

++TILION

Oh, and 1000 reader, Curufin was, incidentally, killed with Caranthir by nameless Elves of Doriath. Celegorm and Dior slew each other.

[Lalaith]

I too was quite baffled by this challenge, the biological obstacles seemed insurmountable. I'm not convinced that Morm's crazy scheme will work but hey, it's worth a go.
++TILION

Oh, by the by, I just re-read the Mim bit in Unfinished Tales in an (unsuccessful) attempt to come up with a breed preservation programme, I'd forgotten the bit about mysterious roots in the sack - do you think they were potatoes?

Have fun at the opera, Ang....what are you seeing?

[Anguirel]

Don Carlo. Rather a Maeglin character, I suppose, if we scrabble for a parallel...I saw the Schiller play Don Carlos a while back, very Germanic and serious-minded but majestic...I expect Verdi's take will be a bit different...

Votes:

Tilion-3
Androg-2

[Celuien]

Morm's plan seems completely off-the-wall. But somehow, it's appealing. Plus, there's new research available to prove that petty-dwarf women are indistinguishable from males by moonlight, even to the sight of other petty-dwarves, but that the special glint of their eyes behind their beards can been seen by all in starlight. Therefore, if Tilion is removed, Mim and company should have an easier time with their...search. And hopefully, their quest will take them far from the vicinity of Androg's bow.

++TILION

Enjoy the opera!

[Thinlómien]

++ANDROG. He is an idiot. I can't understand what have you got against Tilion; he's a nice guy.

Those not already voted: Vote for Androg! He is a nasty guy, who wants to kill everybody without reasons. He is irritating. See Alcarillo's quotations.

[Gothmog]

I'm absolutely no big fan of Androg. His a stuck-up, trigger happy maniac. No, the world would be better without him and the Petty-Dwarfes would certainly be helped by the removal of him. But the fact that this is just a short term solution stands. We need to insure that there are dwarf women around for the lonely boys in Amon Rudh. To remove Tilion is a long shot, but worth a try. I don't see much of an option here, as the situation is somewhat desperate.

++Tilion

And send some sort of curse on Androg when your at it, Ang! ;)

[Anguirel]

Votes-

Tilion-5
Androg-3

Any thoughts on whether voting should close late or early?

[arcticstorm]

I will go with one of my original gut influences and ++Androg

[Anguirel]

Actually, I can't count 1,000 reader's vote-it breaks the rule I laid out at the beginning about including at least some reasoning. The tally remains the same for the time being-

Tilon-5
Androg-3

I say again: early or late?

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Wow! That Tilion idea is so crazy it just might work! :D
Ah, well, probably not. And Androg's absence (together with
Curufin's) would immeasureably improve the moral character of
Beleriand residents, so:
+ + Androg .

[Anguirel]

Lord! We need some more Moon-haters!

Tilion-5
Androg-4 (potentially 5 if 1000 reader kindly provides some reasoning)

I like being on morm's side. It makes a change. I wonder if Saucie will swallow our recent feuding and take up the, er, unorthodox cause?

I've decided that the voting will close late. Expect a write-up at about 10:30 am GMT tomorrow...

[The Saucepan Man]

I wonder if Saucie will swallow our recent feuding and take up the, er, unorthodox cause?But I can't vote with you, Ang. I'd have to award myself the apple! ;)

Actually, I am content with the removal of Curufin - for the time being. But I do feel that the "short-term" solution is the better one here. Androg was responsible for more petty-dwarf deaths than anyone else I can think of. Remove him and we give them a better chance of finding suitable - er - partners (wherever they may be). Besides, if I vote for Androg, we may achieve a tie, which (assuming morm's crazy theory works) is best for them all round.

++Androg

[Thinlómien]

Great! One vote more to Androg!

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

++Androg

For the simpel reason that I like Tilion, but I do think that mormegil's plan is fantastic. :)

[mormegil]

But I can't vote with you, Ang. I'd have to award myself the apple! ;)

Androg was responsible for more petty-dwarf deaths than anyone else I can think of.

You forget Hurin my dear Saucie...one of my favorites and the actual extinguisher of the Petty-dwarf race so your logic is flawed in this as I see it.

[Alcarillo]

'Where is this house of yours?' said Androg. 'It must be good indeed if Androg is to share it with a Dwarf. For Androg does not like Dwarves. His people brought few good tales of that race out of the East.'
A straightforward proclamation of anti-dwarfism. Notice how Androg refers to himself in the third person, a characteristic usually found in psychos.
Then Androg was all for going forward. 'Attack first!' he said. 'There may be a hive of them; but they are small.'
He shows an apalling willingness to slaughter dwarves in their own home.
'This is my son, pierced by an arrow. Now he is beyond speech. He died at sunset. Your bonds held me from healing him.'
Androg has already slain one dwarf, let it not go any further!

[arcticstorm]

I am all for a double eviction, and hopefully winning this challenge in any way possible.

--Androg

[Anguirel]

Tilion-5
Androg-5

Results coming up soon...

[Anguirel]

RESULTS OF DAY EIGHT (M-e)

One evening, the Gaurwaith were on one of their usual killing sprees. In the darkness something short and dark hurtled past them, and Androg drew back the string of his longbow, preparing to shoot it...

Meanwhile, in the sky, Tilion could restrain his longing for Arien no longer! As she set, he charged after her; but his craft span out of control, and he hurtled ever downwards...

And crashed to earth right on top of the Gaurwaith, killing all of them except Turin, who with his usual good luck was standing about a yard out of harm's way. The Moon was shattered into pieces, and Tilion cast, disgraced, into the deeps of the Void, where Manwe awaited him...

As for Androg, he was caught at the very centre, and his body was pulverised.

RESULTS OF THE CHALLENGE

Khim, thanking Mahal for his narrow escape, ran to his father's side. Ibun was also present. The three plotted to fall on the last bandit who had escaped, the man with the black sword, and steal all his gold. So they crept up behind him, clubs and nets at the ready.

A strange new feeling was coming over them. With the moonlight gone, repressed emotions rose to the surface as they advanced. For Petty-Dwarves, it would become apparent, were in fact fast-breeding hermaphrodites when given the right conditions. So it was that by the time they reached Turin, they were an army three hundred strong.

Unfortunately, armies three hundred strong were exactly what Turin specialied in mincing. He whirled round to face his stalkers, and exterminated them all except Mim, whom he interrogated, and forced to lead him to the Petty-Dwarven dwelling...

It's Day Nine in Middle-earth...the contestants...

Tribes

VALAR

Elbereth
Ulmo
Mandos, Doom of

NOLDOR

Maedhros
Maglor
Celegorm
Celebrimbor
Ereinion
Idril
Maeglin
Orodreth
Finduilas
Gwindor

TELERI/SINDAR

Olwe
Celeborn
Galadriel
Mablung

MAIA

Melian
Uinen
Arien (with Sun)

DWARVES

Telchar of Nogrod (incidentally, probably by now a different character. But with the same name. Like Durin the Deathless...)
Mim the Petty-dwarf

MEN

Dior
Hurin
Tuor
Morwen
Turin
Nienor
Brandir

FORCES OF EVIL

Morgoth
Sauron
Glaurung
Ancalagon (adolescent...)
Morgoth, Curse of

Challenge the ninth-LOVE TETRAHEDRONS. Anticipating Turin's arrival in Nargothrond, make the romantic situation caused by him as convoluted as possible.

Voting will close at 7:30am GMT tomorrow.

[Celuien]

A difficult challenge.

Gwindor has to stay to keep the Turin-Finduilas-Gwindor portion of the situation going. An obvious choice would be to vote off Orodreth to make Finduilas Queen of Nargothrond. As queen, she's bound to draw more suitors. Voting of the Curse of Morgoth is another obvious choice since that option takes some of the gloominess off Turin.

[Thinlómien]

Curufin went already - wouldn't it be time for Celegorm to go? They're quite equal idiots... (says a noldo-fan... Well, I'm a bit crazy...)

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Curufin went already - wouldn't it be time for Celegorm to go? They're quite equal idiots... (says a noldo-fan... Well, I'm a bit crazy...)

Don't think it would help us completing our task though.

Celuien has two sugestions of who to vote for as for Orodreth: Are you sure that it will be Finduilas who is made queen? Maybe it will be Galadriel.

I think it would be interesting if we were to vote of "the curse of Morgoth"

[Thinlómien]

Don't think it would help us completing our task though.

Celuien has two sugestions of who to vote for as for Orodreth: Are you sure that it will be Finduilas who is made queen? Maybe it will be Galadriel.

I think it would be interesting if we were to vote of "the curse of Morgoth"

I didn't even notice the challenge :rolleyes:
"Always read the rules before starting to play..."

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, we could vote off Arien, thereby plunging Beleriand into darkness, because moonlight is so much more romantic. But then, a bunch of nitwits went and voted off Tilion (and therefore the Moon) ... :p

Still, the stars would remain. And candlelight is pretty romantic. Surely such conditions would be bound to make all the ladies swoon for a chap like Turin ...

[Celuien]

Don't think it would help us completing our task though.

Celuien has two sugestions of who to vote for as for Orodreth: Are you sure that it will be Finduilas who is made queen? Maybe it will be Galadriel.

I think it would be interesting if we were to vote of "the curse of Morgoth"

Well, my personal opinion is that Finduilas should ascend to Queen as Orodreth's daughter. But I can't speak for what goes on in the mind of our Ang-mod. :D At any rate, it would initiate another power struggle and political intrigue, which is always interesting for romance. At any rate, a Galadriel/Finduilas face off would be fun.

I'm not sure that I want to plunge Middle-earth into darkness again by voting off the Sun. At least, I don't want to do that while the baddies are still here.

I'm leaning somewhat toward the Curse of Morgoth. Having a curse hanging over his head is a major dampener on Turin's life right now. Who knows what he'll do as the dashing, handsome hero without having to mope about complaining about being the son of ill-fate?

[Gothmog]

Well, we could vote off Arien, thereby plunging Beleriand into darkness, because moonlight is so much more romantic. But then, a bunch of nitwits went and voted off Tilion (and therefore the Moon) ...

Still, the stars would remain. And candlelight is pretty romantic. Surely such conditions would be bound to make all the ladies swoon for a chap like Turin ...
Plus, if it's dark enough there'll be impossible to seperate people and a few loving couples could be created by pure luck!

But wouldn't ME be a gloomy place without both the sun and the moon?

As always, there's plenty of ways to deal with this problem. If we're going to make Turin's lovelife more convoluted, we can either make more women fall for him, make more men fall for Finduilas, make Finduilas fall fall for more men and so on. I've always thought the "romantic situation" was tricky and tragic enough without any more twistes.

I wonder how a removal of the curse of Morgoth would help in this situation? By removing this heavy burden, do you think Turin will attract more women? Or be more willing to give his heart to someone?

And if we removed Orodreth and if Finduilas was to be queen and thereby drawing more suitors to her, would that make things much worse? What I would like to do is to add a second girl, someone to love Gwindor but be loved by Turin. That would be the ultimate situation, but could that be done? Maybe not but I'll think about it and see if I can come up with a solution...

[Anguirel]

Dare I suggest that Galadriel might be a little more relaxed and open to joining in without a certain Sinda...?

Though it cuts at the heart to bring it up...

[Gothmog]

Are you suggesting Celeborn, Ang? Cuz I thought of him, but thought that if that's going to work, we'll need a little help from the mod in the upcoming write-up ;)

[Anguirel]

That was indeed my point. And I do try my best to be vaguely impartial. In this case, I don't see Galadriel sitting demurely at home after something happens to her husband...even if I like him.

Another option-vote off Morwen, emancipate Nienor and throw her into the mix. Incidentally, I see I've been mispelling her as Nienna...must go back and correct...

[Gothmog]

Ah, you read my mind Ang! But would Turin fall in love with Nienor? Remember this is before Glaurung put his spell on Turin. He might realize who she is.

In the light of my previous post and a mod who might have the same thoughts, I vote

++Celeborn

Not only will it (maybe) push a mourning and lonely Galadriel in the arms of Turin (go visit her brother is logic after such a loss), but we'll also get rid of that stuck-up pretending-to-be-king-while-the-queen-rules Celeborn. Let's just hope Celebrian is already born.

[Anguirel]

Point of information: it's really Olwe who's pretending to be King while the Queen rules...

However, our thoughts are essentially the same. Sorry, Celeborn...

++CELEBORN

[Eonwe]

we'll also get rid of that stuck-up pretending-to-be-king-while-the-queen-rules Celeborn.

which is persisely why you shouldn't vote Celeborn. I don't ever recall Celeborn acting "stuck up" in my past readings. Celeborn is never given the credit he deserves. I used to think he was a bit of a pansy myself, until i read a bit on him (which insedentally i forget). but i still cling to the fact that he is very awesome. shaky? yes. but all the same, celeborn must stay.

besides, i think that if celeborn went, galadriel would become sad, lonely and withdrawn. her heart would be closed to all new loves. she would lack her will to rule, and would possibly be allowed to return to valinor (what good is a lackluster leader), which having lost all love of life, she would doubtlessly accept. besides, there would be drastic implications for the fellowship, and aragorn/gondor/the fourth age (or whatever is the age of men). no celebrindal, no arwen. no arwen, rejoining of the branches of the half-eleven. no celeborn, no driven, willful galadriel ruling lorien. no lorien, no succor for the fellowship. and we all no what that means. domination of evil.

orodreth seems like a good pick to me. morwen also. for reasons stated in other people's posts.

[The 1,000 Reader]

++Arien.

The reasons others have said are good enough for me.

[Gothmog]

Ang:Point of information: it's really Olwe who's pretending to be King while the Queen rules...
Correct...I thought of the Lotr-Celeborn. I shouldn't.

And Eonwe: to start with, how do you know there wouldn't be a Arwen? Celebrian might already be born and she needs a strong father-figure when Celeborn is gone. That will force Galadriel to go looking for a suitable man. And even if she's not looking for it, the visit in Nargothrond will make her meet Turin. Either he falls in love with her or she falls in love with him, it's written in the stars ;)

Second: what do we care about the age of men, Aragorn, the fellowship or anything else far in the future? This is Silmarillion Survivor and we're not supposed to take the future in account. Look to the task and you'll see this is the best solution. The outcome is unpredictable, but just by throwing in an other female in the equation the possibility for disaster will be so much greater.

[Eonwe]

Celebrian might already be born and she needs a strong father-figure when Celeborn is gone.

bolding mine...

well, ok, point taken about the age of men. however...

The outcome is unpredictable, but just by throwing in an other female in the equation the possibility for disaster will be so much greater.

i still think galadriel will become disinterested with life without celeborn. not even turin will revive her heart and passion for life. not to mention that there are other places she could look to for solace, such as melian (right were she is), or teh wilderness, where all hearts find peace.

and getting rid of celeborn would produce one possible addetive. getting rid of orodreth would produce many, many suitors for findulias' hand.

oo, oo, i just though of this too! when findulias sees that galadriel and turin have something going, she will turn back to Gwindor (both turin and findulias didn't really want to fall in love with eachother), thereby rendering the situation: defused.

hopefully these reasons will give teh celeborn bandwagon a few flat tires. if not ill try again... ;)

[Gothmog]

Eonwe:oo, oo, i just though of this too! when findulias sees that galadriel and turin have something going, she will turn back to Gwindor (both turin and findulias didn't really want to fall in love with eachother), thereby rendering the situation: defused. Turin did never fall in love with Finduilas, did he?

Finduilas:Túrin son of Húrin loves me not;nor will
Besides, I doubt she could have turned back to Gwindor as you say. She can't help falling in love with Turin and she can't undo those feelings. She wants to love Gwindor, like before his imprisonment, but felt drawn to Turin.

Getting more suitors for Finduilas will increase the chaos, but it's not a lack of Finduilas-admirers we suffer from. Gwindor loves Finduilas, Finduilas loves Turin and Turin loves nobody at this time. That's the empy space which needs to be filled, someone for Turin to love or someone to love Gwindor. Or even better: both. To maximize the anguish for loving and loved, that's the best solution. But if it failes, Galadriel can still fall in love with Turin. And let's face it, one famous elven queen or hundreds of nameless, faceless elf's loving Finduilas, what's most interesting?

[Eonwe]

Turin did never fall in love with Finduilas, did he?

really? i was under the impretion that he did. maybe it was toward the end. but i'm pretty sure at least that they were mutally turned toward eachother. you may be right (in which case i would have to scramble for a new argument) but i'm not sure. though now that i think of it, i do seem to remember turin counciling findulias to turn back to gwindor. aaarg, to many things to keep straight! oh well that's waht make re-reading fun...

if findulias assends the throne of nargrathond, maybe turin will fall in love with her. or at least the power she represents. that would add a great deal of angstyness into our concoction: fake love vs. true love vs no love vs rabid findulias fans. turnin's love, as you said, is the missing piece of our love tetrahedron...

[Gothmog]

But if Turin loves Finduilas (or her title, doesn't matter) and she loves him, wouldn't that make them happy? Alas(always loved that word) , poor Gwindor will go alone and unhappy, but one out of three? No, that's just not good enough. We'll make everybody unhappy and suffering :cool:

Either way, I'm going to bed now. I hope my arguments so far won't be overrun during my night, I expect voting for Celeborn to increase like an avalanche ;)

[The Saucepan Man]

I'm not sold on the arguments for either Celeborn or Orodreth.

So, for want of a better candidate, and for the reasons earlier stated, I shall vote:

++ARIEN

[Eonwe]

what's that, ariel 2, Celeborn 2?

lets make it ariel 2, cleborn 2, and orodreth 1.

++Orodreth

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

No mather who becomes queen of Nargothrond it is going to be interesting i and I realy have to see if it has an impact on Turins influence. (I hope so)


++Orodreth

[Celuien]

Vote for Celeborn!?! I think not. :p

++ORODRETH

[arcticstorm]

I agree with Sauce, the starlight will make an extremely romantic atmosphere
++Arien

[Alcarillo]

Without the sun, imagine how many orcs will be crawling everywhere. Turin would obviously have no place to put romance in his busy orc-killing schedule.

++Orodreth

[Anguirel]

Celeborn-2
Arien-3
Orodreth-4

Orodreth is dethroned! Results on their way.

[Anguirel]

RESULTS OF DAY NINE (M-e)

Orodreth was patrolling the Guarded Plain one day when he stumbled on a cunningly constructed Orc trap laid by one of his scouts. Poisoned barbs ended his fairly lacklustre career as King of Nargothrond.

Finduilas claimed the throne, persuaded by her friends at court, but the nobles of Nargothrond were uncertain. One law dictated that the King's eldest child should succeed him; another that the oldest line should rule, which was in favour of Galadriel, as Finrod Felagund's sister. A third law, upheld in times of crisis, barred females from the throne, in which case Ereinion was the clear heir, but he was away in the west, and besides still young. Celebrimbor was proposed instead, an Elf of the most royal blood and and great skill.

Maedhros, as High King of the Noldor, was called in to decide. Maglor advised him to choose Celebrimbor, whose good character and ability he valued, and Maedhros too was about to judge Celebrimbor worthy; but Celegorm, who despised his nephew and yearned to avenge his brother Curufin, had another plan. He made a deal with Galadriel, power-hungry as ever; if she were given the crown, she would use her influence to persuade Olwe to ally with Celegorm and attack Dior. She agreed; and so Maedhros was persuaded to crown Galadriel Queen of Nargothrond, much to Finduilas's anger...

RESULTS OF THE CHALLENGE

Embittered by the utter destruction of his race, Mim betrayed Turin to the Orcs of Morgoth, but the human was too much for his captors, slaying several with his bare hands before he reclaimed his sword, killed half-a-dozen enemies in a stroke, and made his escape. It was then that he met the wretched Gwindor, who had also eluded Morgoth, and they made their way to Nargothrond. Finduilas, angry with the establishment for rejecting her claim, soon fell for the stormy, dangerous human outlaw, abandoning Gwindor; but Turin had eyes only for the Queen, Galadriel, whom he served fanatically. Celeborn was still at Olwe's side...and Galadriel was tempted, but did not yet succumb...

Contestants and challenge coming up later.

[Anguirel]

It's Day Ten in Middle-earth. The contestants:

Tribes

VALAR

Elbereth
Ulmo
Mandos, Doom of

NOLDOR

Maedhros
Maglor
Celegorm
Celebrimbor
Ereinion
Galadriel
Idril
Maeglin
Finduilas
Gwindor

TELERI/SINDAR

Olwe
Celeborn
Mablung

MAIA

Melian
Uinen
Arien (with Sun)

DWARVES

Telchar of Nogrod (incidentally, probably by now a different character. But with the same name. Like Durin the Deathless...)
Mim the Petty-dwarf

MEN

Dior
Hurin
Tuor
Morwen
Turin
Nienor
Brandir

FORCES OF EVIL

Morgoth
Sauron
Glaurung
Ancalagon (adolescent...)
Morgoth, Curse of

Challenge the tenth: PLANNING PERMISSION. Without evicting Turin, try to stop the building of the bridge over the Narog.

Sorry this is so late. Chaotic morning.

[arcticstorm]

hmm, the moderator gives us an interesting challenge, if these were men instead of elves I would suggest Arien again, but as elves love the starlight it may only slow them down a little, but everything will still be built. We need to keep GWindor, and maybe find a way to get him more clout in the royal court, hmm, maybe if we remove Celeborn, Gwindor and the Queen will be nutually turned to eachother, that could remove the bridge building, but at the same point, it could backfire on us, if Turin and Galadriel turn to eachother.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Who runs Nargothrond if Finduilas is removed?
Without her backing would the bridge be built and/or
The Black Sword stay in Nargothrond?

[The Saucepan Man]

Could be time to evict Morwen, so that Turin heads north out of concern for his sister. That would certainly lessen his impact on startegy and planning decisions within Nargothrond.

(Sorry Lalaith. :rolleyes: )

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Sound reasoning by SpM:

So: + + Morwen

[Gothmog]

If we evict Galadriel, would Turin leave Nargothrond? Maybe ha can't stand being around the place his loved lived when she's not around anymore? Whatever we do, to get Turin out of the place is a good idea... If he's gone, people will listen to Gwindor and the warnings of Gelmir and Arminas. Wait, that warning came to late after the bridge was built... Would a destruction of the bridge complete the task?

Anyway, how we're going to get Turin from Nargothrond with his big crush on the ruler there is a mystery to me. Therefore I nominate Galadriel as one alternative.

[mormegil]

If the curse of Morgoth goes many Turin related problems are bound to go away

++Curse of Morgoth

[arcticstorm]

While I agree Morm, maybe the best way to save Nargothrond is not to prevent the bridge from being built but to just get rid of Glaurung the leader, but then Morgoth may send in Ancalagon instead and that would be evern worse, so I will go with you to day and get rid of ++The Curse of Morgoth

[Lalaith]

Goodness, yesterday's love tetrahedron challenge has certainly left everything rather sticky for today's....I'm going to have to re-read this Narn episode again...although we've veered so far from the original plot that I'm not sure it's going to be much help.....

[The Saucepan Man]

Call me old-fashioned, but it seems to me to go rather against the spirit of the game to be voting off Curses. This is supposed to be a Reality Gameshow. In Reality Gameshows, people get voted off, not their circumstances or attributes. To me, it's rather like voting off Maedhros' High Kingship or Galadriel's beauty.

And it's rather a cop-out isn't it? Can't bring yourself to vote for any of the characters? That's OK, you can vote for an abstract state of being instead ... :p

And anyway, what would the Silmarillion be without Morgoth's Curse on Hurin and his family following through to its bitter end?

Seems to me that, for this challenge, the best vote for a character is one for ...

++MORWEN

For reasons earlier stated.

[Anguirel]

I disagree with you there, Saucie-bet you're surprised!-on the evicting curses point. I think the Curse and even more so the Doom really are distinct entities, vital characters in a sense, and so ought to be options for voting.

A suggestion-if you can succeed in both dethroning Galadriel and making Ereinion or Celebrimbor, not Finduilas, King of Nargothrond, then Turin may find the ruler less receptive. This would presumably be done by evicting Galadriel or double-evicting Galadriel and Finduilas.

Apart from that, the Curse is a solid, but rather tame choice for succeeding in this challenge. After some thought, I say the Doom should go instead-the Noldor have suffered plenty already, the lack of the Doom will lend them wisdom to resist Turin or strength to resist Morgoth, and that way Turin's tragic saga can be played to its end.

++MANDOS, DOOM OF

[arcticstorm]

I am wondering why we can vote off the doom of mandos and the curse of Morgoth but not the Oath of Feanor.

[Anguirel]

Ask Maedhros and Maglor that!

"But how shall our voices reach to Illuvatar beyond the circles of the world? And by Illuvatar we swore in our madness..."

[Gothmog]

This feels kind of awkward, voting according to a suggestion of the mod. But I am following my first thought about Galadriel. I proposed her in my earlier post, but no-one seems to follow. But who cares, it'll just result in a useless vote anyway...

++Galadriel

Reasons state in previous post. A double eviction might be a good idea.

Regarding the doom, what do you mean by saying the Noldor has suffered enough, Anguirel? Haven't you always argued that suffering is good for the show and spoken against making life easy for our contestants? And now you want to take away the greatest creator of distrust, disunity and evil deeds? Care to explain?

[Eonwe]

hmmm...i'll go with

++Morwen

she doesn't have so very long to live yet anyway, and will hopefully bring turin to the aid of his sister. [read: i can't/wouln't vote for galadriel, and the curse of morgoth is just cheesy].

[Lalaith]

To save Morwen, I have to do this:
++Morgoth, Curse of

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I think that voting of Galadriel woulfd be a bad Idear; it would only strengthen Turins postition! (Galadriel with a mortal, No way !)

To vote of Morwen I realy can't see the point in! I guess I don't understand your reasoning.

The doom sounds like a good idear, but can we be sure that Turin in this case would act otherwise?

I say we remove Turins source of influence! Remove Finduilas!

++Finduilas

[Anguirel]

Votes so far:

Morwen-3
Morgoth, Curse of-3
Mandos, Doom of-1
Galadriel-1
Finduilas 1

[Lalaith]

Ang, I think you'll find it's three votes for Morgoth, curse of: both morm and arctic had already voted for it, which is why I voted the way I did...

[Gothmog]

Rune:I say we remove Turins source of influence! Remove Finduilas! Don't forget that Galadriel is Queen of Nargothrond now. And she's attracted by Turin! And what reason would he have to stay if she was to leave?

Who would take the throne after Galadriel? Probably Celebrimbor judging from Ang's write-up. And would he listen to Turin? Probably not. He's experienced with people under curses and has turned his back to such before.

What power has Finduilas now? Once a candidate for the throne but now an unhappy elf without much power.

I see the logic behind voting for the Curse of Morgoth. But we can't be sure that will take away all of Turin's pride and not make him build the bridge.

And regarding the votes for Morwen, is this supposed to leave her daughter unprotected and thereby sending Turin to her "rescue"? We've seen before that the news doesn't travel very fast and it's not sure Turin will get to now about her eviction in time. Besides, nobody knows were to send a message, nobody knows that Mormegil the Black Sword is in fact Turin. Only the people of Nargothrond knows his true identity.

[Anguirel]

Righty-ho, sorry, will edit. These votes were rather a nightmare to count for some reason...I think because I'd been slack about keeping a running tally...

[Celuien]

++MORGOTH, CURSE OF...

my preferred choice from yesterday. May Turin gain more wisdom once freed of Morgoth's malevolence.

[The Saucepan Man]

I disagree with you there, Saucie-bet you're surprised!-on the evicting curses point. I think the Curse and even more so the Doom really are distinct entities, vital characters in a sense, and so ought to be options for voting.I couldn't disagree with you more. It just seems to make a mockery of the game to vote for pronouncements and not for people.

The whole point of a Reality Show is that we, the audience, get to vote for the contestants that we like the least, or who we think are not contributing sufficiently to the challenges. We don't get to vote for aspects of their personality which we dislike or circumstances which we think are holding them back. That would be plain silly.

What happens if the Curse or the Doom last until the end? Do they win? how dull would that be?

If people want the Curse of Morgoth removed, then they should go for the cause, not the symptom, and vote off Morgoth.

But, if the Curse goes, then there will be no Turin/Nienor mistaken identity situation and perhaps the most tragic element of the whole tragic tale goes up in a puff of smoke. To my mind, that would strike at the very heart of the tale. What is the point of Turin without the tragedy? That's his whole purpose. His raison d'etre.

And regarding the votes for Morwen, is this supposed to leave her daughter unprotected and thereby sending Turin to her "rescue"?Precisely. And there are ways and means of Turin hearing the news. Perhaps a traveller from the north. Perhaps even the workings of Morgoth's Curse, given that Turin is more than capable of wreaking havoc in his homeland, which would no doubt suit Morgoth's purpose.

[The 1,000 Reader]

++Morwen.

We need these curses. They add drama and set up situations. Besides, Morgoth's curse will leave automatically.

[Anguirel]

Morwen-4
Morgoth, Curse of-4
Mandos, Doom of-1
Galadriel-1
Finduilas 1

Both Morwen and the Curse of Morgoth are set to be ejected. Write-up coming up...

[Anguirel]

RESULTS OF DAY TEN (M-e)

In the hall of Brodda, the chief had made a pronouncement.

He demanded the young and fair Nienor as his second wife! But her proud mother Morwen refused him. As a result she was whipped cruelly, until she fell half-dead from the ordeal, and finally expired. But in that time Nienor slipped away, helped by a couple of old retainers, heading for Melian's realm; and Mablung found her and guided her inside.

Meanwhile, impressed by Morwen's self-sacrifice, Elbereth intervened to lift the Curse on Hurin's children. Shaken by rage, Morgoth hurled Hurin from the peak where he was chained. Thus passed the greatest of mortal warriors.

RESULTS OF THE CHALLENGE

Mablung hurried to find Turin and tell him the news that his mother was dead and his sister in Doriath. Without the Curse, he escaped Glaurung and following the rumours, reached Nargothrond. Turin met him joyously, but shuddered in tears at the news. Eventually he decided to return to Dor-Lomin and avenge Morwen, his plans for the Bridge across the Narog incomplete...

It's Day Eleven in Middle-earth. The contestants:

Tribes

VALAR

Elbereth
Ulmo
Mandos, Doom of

NOLDOR

Maedhros
Maglor
Celegorm
Celebrimbor
Ereinion
Galadriel
Idril
Maeglin
Finduilas
Gwindor

TELERI/SINDAR

Olwe
Celeborn
Mablung

MAIA

Melian
Uinen
Arien (with Sun)

DWARVES

Telchar of Nogrod (incidentally, probably by now a different character. But with the same name. Like Durin the Deathless...)
Mim the Petty-dwarf

MEN

Dior
Tuor
Turin
Nienor
Brandir

FORCES OF EVIL

Morgoth
Sauron
Glaurung
Ancalagon (young adult...)

Task eleven: Retribution of Morgoth. Let the Dragons (yes, Ancalagon has matured early...) wreak havoc. Those Elves and Men aren't throwing off the Curse for nothing!

[Lalaith]

*wipes away tears at deaths of two noblest characters in Sil*

You know, I've realised that if we'd kicked out the curse earlier, not only could mum and dad have pulled through but I might have survived as well. It's not much fun being a dead three-year-old.... :(
Anyway, I've got a bit more time today so I'll give the challenge further thought...

Psst, Ang, you've mixed up Hurin and Turin in your otherwise most excellent write-up....

[The Saucepan Man]

Oh well, at least we managed to vote off a person as well as a concept ... :rolleyes:

Shaken by rage, Morgoth hurled Turin from the peak where he was chained. Thus passed the greatest of mortal warriors.Ang, shouldn't that be Hurin? And, if so, shouldn't he be removed from the contestant list?

Possible candidates for eviction today, as I see it:

Turin: No point in keeping him now that the Curse has been lifted. :rolleyes: Plus the greatest remaining mortal warrior (assuming that Hurin is dead) and a potential Dragom-slayer, and therefore a significant obstacle to Morgoth's forces.

Maedhros: Removing the Elven High King will perhaps sap their morale and thereby assist Morgoth's armies in wreaking havoc.

Melian: Remove her and Morgoth's hordes will be able to overrun Doriath.

Arien: If we plunge Beleriand into darkness, this will no doubt assist Morgoth's forces.

Telchar of Nogrod: A Dwarf and therefore potentially dangerous for Glaurung and the young Ancalagon. Also supplies powerful weapons to the Elves.

Any others?

[Anguirel]

So sorry Saucie. I must be less hasty...

[Lalaith]

I'm thinking of going for Telchar. The Dragon-Helm has been made already, I believe, but his role as a weapon-forger makes him a good option.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Not Melian! Just when her plans for world domination are coming along
so nicely (it seemed like that ball-and-chain Thingol would NEVER leave!)
Now, if only Maedhros or Galadriel would have an "accident." :eek:

Since Turin's always been such a pain, taking away fame from his much
nicer, and more competent, cousin, then it seems the people's choice
is (or should be):

+ + Turin Turambar/Neithan/The Blacksword, whatever.
Agh, the guy's got almost as many monickers as that Third Age returning
king person.

[Anguirel]

The problem with Turin is that he's off the scene, heading for Dor-Lomin to mangle all the Easterlings he can find. So his death wouldn't really effect things much.

(You'll notice that I tend to implement evictions by death. This is because eviction is basically going to Mandos/the Void, and death is a direct and satisfying way of getting people there...)

We have to decide where Morgoth is likely to strike, and therefore where we should undermine resistance.

He does not know the location of Nargothrond or Gondolin, so that rules out:

Idril
Galadriel
Finduilas
Gwindor
Celebrimbor

as candidates. This leaves his probable targets:

Sirion. The second-last male of Fingolfin's house, Ereinion (the other being Maeglin) rules there. A literal haven for displaced Elves. He knows where it is too. But it's very difficult to reach and requires effort to assault.

Ossiriand. His three most determined enemies, Maedhros, Maglor, and Celebrimbor, lurk here. However it's a vast area and would require guerilla warfare of a sort Morgoth's minions have never been successful in, fighting against a combination of the best Noldorin warriors left in Beleriand and the stealth of the Green Elves.

Doriath. His most powerful enemy Melian resides here. The area is deeply divided, with a war going on between Olwe and Dior, and Melian's destructive neutrality. It is a known haven of Elves and of Men in Brethil, on whom Morgoth is particularly eager to impress his anger. His missing Silmaril is here. Doriath can potentially seriously hamper attacks on Sirion or Ossiriand if allowed to stand.

It seems then to me that Doriath is most likely. At Doriath the heads of resistance will be:

Dior
Olwe
Celeborn
Melian
Mablung

(Note in passing: don't worry about evicting people before their offspring appear on the list. It's such a bore having to scrap genealogical lines that I almost never do it, so the child will often replace the dead parent.)

From that list Melian is the most powerful enemy, though Mablung might also be considered-great archers can be deadly to Dragons...

So, in conclusion-

++MELIAN

[Anguirel]

Two votes and the day half-gone? Oh dear. Is this a direct result of my shoddy write-up? If more interest is not shown I'll have to lengthen the blasted day...

[The Saucepan Man]

The problem with Turin is that he's off the scene, heading for Dor-Lomin to mangle all the Easterlings he can find. So his death wouldn't really effect things much.Well, that's unlikely to take such an accomplished warrior long. And he'll soon be back when he hears that there are Orcs - and Dragons - to be slain.

Turin Turambar is undoubtedly my favourite character from the Silmarillion. But that is because I find his tale so compelling. The tragedy of his fate and that of his kin is deeply moving. But what is Turin's tale without the Curse of Morgoth? He simply becomes yet another immensely powerful goody-goody warrior. And Beleriand is awash with those. Few up to Turin's standard admittedly, but how can they be, living in his shadow?

I am in no doubt that Turin's removal will remove a significant obstacle to the accomplishment of today's task. Morgoth's armies will be able to create considerably more havoc without this particular thorn in their side. And though I vote to evict him with a heavy heart, I resign myself to do so on the basis that, absent the Curse of Morgoth, any account of Turin's deeds from here on in will be infinately less compelling. For his own good, I say that we remove him now, before he suffers the dreadful fate (by the standards of The Silmarillion) of having a happy ending ... :eek: ;)

++TURIN TURAMBAR

[arcticstorm]

I will vote for a mighty warrior ofc another elven realm, Gondolin.
++Maeglin

[The 1,000 Reader]

Two votes and the day half-gone? Oh dear. Is this a direct result of my shoddy write-up?

Yes, yes it is. :p

++Melian.

She is the greatest threat to the dragons.

(Edited. I got Melian and Morwen confused for a moment. Thanks, Saucepan.)

[Lalaith]

Ang, there's still seven hours left, don't fret...

Anyway, I'm really not happy about losing either Turin or Melian, particularly as both Morwen and Hurin went yesterday.
So, with little point in going for Telchar at this stage, I'll do:
++Maeglin
even though I don't want to.

[Celuien]

I must vote to save Melian and to preserve her plans to rule all of the Elven kingdoms of Middle-earth. ;)

Who should be sent off today? I really don't want to vote off Turin or Maeglin. But Sauce's arguments are the most persuasive just now...

++TURIN

[Anguirel]

Votes-

Turin-3
Melian-2
Maeglin-2

Write-up will wait till after 1:00, I'm afraid-I don't want to hurry it...

[Anguirel]

RESULTS OF DAY ELEVEN (M-e)

Turin hurried through the harried, wilderness landscape of Dor-Lomin, vengeance and murder posessing his heart. In his right hand he gripped the sword Anglachel, also called Gurthang, flexing its blade from side to side. He would behead Brodda, with any Easterling who tried to stop him. Then he would go to Doriath, he decide, to find Nienor...

His thoughts were interrupted abruptly by the thrashing of a rope seizing his foot. Before he could stop himself, he had soared upwards. His foot bound his dangling body by a length of twine to an ash tree. He could not escape.

"We call it the Arrow-Tree," said a harsh voice. "I, Lord Brodda, will show you why. Men-fire!"

Black-fletched shafts sank into Turin's flesh...his torso was pinned to the ash trunk he flailed against. He remained, like a caught mackerel, contorting, until at last his massive body became still. Brodda smiled.

"You were very proud, and very foolish, to come back here, son of Hurin," he cried. "Now I shall take your Black Sword as a symbol of victory."

The Easterling approached, reaching out his hands to prize the enormous broadsword from the dead man's hand with his knife...

...and then Gurthang severed his head in a single slash. Turin's eyes were still closed, but his face wore a smile. He had had his vengeance. The sword toppled to the ground...but none of the Easterlings felt inclined to pick it up.

RESULTS OF THE CHALLENGE

Not the least reason why Morgoth's new assault fell on Doriath was the presence there of Nienor, now the last heir of Hurin. Whether his Curse remained or not, Morgoth still wanted his revenge on that foolishly brave man. He would have it now by ordering the Dragons to find and roast Hurin's daughter-along with Melian the Maia-and return the Silmaril to him.

The Dark Lord's armies charged into Neldoreth, burning and slaying without pity. Olwe and his army, depleted from wars with Dior, made what resistance it could; but the King of Neldoreth fell to the might of Glaurung. Yet at this point the host of Morgoth stopped. It seemed it could continue no further. For Melian had generously restored the old limits of her Girdle, including Neldoreth once more.

The only beings with the power to enter were the greatest of the Dragons, led by Glaurung and Ancalagon. The Orcs and Easterlings returned to Angband, content with their plunder from Olwe's court.

Glaurung and the wyrms without wings attacked Brethil, and the defenders could stand but little against them. Brandir the Lame was burnt where he stood. Dior's forces, both Elves and Men, retreated, but were trapped by Dragons. It seemed they were doomed...

...until the banners of the Star of Feanor were seen in the distance. Unlooked for, Maedhros, Maglor and Celegorm had come to the aid of Dior, with Telchar's Dwarves in alliance with them as usual. They did not love Dior for his keeping of the Silmaril and his part in the death of their brother, but nor did they wish the Silmaril to return to Morgoth. Daunted by such numbers, the Dragons hesitated. No blades present could wound Glaurung, but as more and more of his Dragons were slain by the Noldor and Dwarves he retreated. And there was peace between Dior and the Sons of Feanor.

Meanwhile, Ancalagon's attack had been frustrated by Mablung, whose sharp, precise arrows were the bane of many great drakes. However, while Mablung's archers and Melian's powers were distracted, the Dragon found Nienor and carried her off. This seemed victory enough for him, and his host withdrew. Thus Doriath was defended.

Yet the tale of the battle does not end here. For Ancalagon as he bore Nienor to Angband was watched from a tower in the deeps of Nan Elmoth by a tall Elf in a silver mask. As he saw the plight of the maiden, something in her eyes recalled the beloved who had rejected him, and he leapt onto the Dragon's back as it flew past...

Maiden, Elf and Dragon struggled as they veered down again. And finally the Elf struck the Dragon a dire blow, and it fled back to its Dark Master without its prey. But the Elf was gravely hurt.

"Girl," he said, "I would know thy name."

"Nienor," she said quietly, through her tears.

"That is good. Bury me here, at the foot of this tower, as 'Lomion', and I wish you...happiness. The sword...with me..."

Thus passed Maeglin, the son of Eol.

It's Day Twelve on Middle-Earth. The contestants:

Tribes

VALAR

Elbereth
Ulmo
Mandos, Doom of

NOLDOR

Maedhros
Maglor
Celegorm
Celebrimbor
Ereinion
Galadriel
Idril
Salgant
Glorfindel
Finduilas
Gwindor

TELERI/SINDAR

Celeborn
Mablung
Cirdan
Nimloth
Elwing

MAIA

Melian
Uinen
Arien (with Sun)

DWARVES

Telchar of Nogrod (incidentally, probably by now a different character. But with the same name. Like Durin the Deathless...)
Mim the Petty-dwarf

MEN

Dior
Tuor
Nienor

FORCES OF EVIL

Morgoth
Sauron
Glaurung
Ancalagon (young adult...)

Challenge twelve: matchmaking. Vote for who should marry Nienor. You may vote to keep her single. Also vote for an evictee.

This means two votes are required, one to marry Nienor, one to go: eg

++MABLUNG, ++ARIEN

[The Saucepan Man]

Goodness gracious me! That was a bit of a bloodbath, wasn't it? Shame we didn't vote off both Melian and Turin, though. Indeed, I considered changing my vote at one point to bring about a three-way tie.

I am half minded to suggest Huor as Nienor's match, just to really muck things up ... :rolleyes: ;)

Ang, on what are we we expected to base our eviction vote? It seems unlikely that we can influence the task by our choice for eviction (unless, by pure chance, the same person is voted both to marry Nienor and to be evicted). I presume, therefore, that we have a free hand just to vote for whoever we dislike.

[Lalaith]

Huor isn't there any more. Plus he's her UNCLE, Saucie. For shame. As if Ang's cousin thing wasn't bad enough.
Now you lot have evicted all the mortal men, except for Nienor's first cousin, and Dior.
However think we could do worse than an Andreth/Aegnor type scenario.
How about Celegorm? Or - hey - even Glorfindel, on a little visit from Gondolin?

As for eviction: there's too many Noldor, we should whittle them down. How about Ereinion or Gwindor (I'd suggest the rather obscure Salgant but I've got a feeling he's there for a Angy reason and I don't believe in upsetting people needlessly)

[Anguirel]

You have a free hand on eviction, yes.

I've put in a lot of surviving Gondolin characters (with Ecthelion dead ages ago) because we'll be having a Fall of Gondolin task in a day or two and I need to widen its possibilities-Maeglin's sad death left only Idril in Gondolin!

Incidentally, has my alternative Maeglin life left any of you with any sympathy for the poor chap?

[Celuien]

Incidentally, has my alternative Maeglin life left any of you with any sympathy for the poor chap?

It most certainly has. Poor Maeglin.

What about a Gwindor/Nienor match? He did lose Finduilas to Turin, after all.

Not sure about eviction just now. Since we have a free hand today, it might be a good chance to eliminate who or whatever is the most irritating before we have to think of a challenge again. I'm half tempted to vote for Ancalagon to avenge alternate-Maeglin.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

For elimination: + + Ancalagon the Black
(Dragons are doing just too well in Doriath. It's time to
slap them around a little).

Marriage to Nienor: Well, let's see, who was really not
treated very well by Turin and to whom did Turin admit he
owed a debt...ah! Mim, and think of the interesting descendants
and family tree that would result. So, wedding bells for
Nienor and + + Mim the Petty Dwarf :cool:

Btw, a subtitle for day 11 could be:
The Wild Bunch in Doriath. Now who would William Holden play?

[Anguirel]

My views on suitors...

First, the Sons of Feanor. Maglor appeals most out of these, though technically only Celegorm is unmarried-the two elder brothers are said to have left wives in Valinor. If you vote for either of them though, I'll find a loophole.

Celegorm would, I think, be either a very good or very bad choice, depending on your point of view...

From the other Noldor, Celebrimbor seems to me to be the front-runner; he has experienced suffering as has Nienor, and they share a rather serious temperament. Ereinion is a born bachelor as far as I can see, and Gwindor loves Finduilas, who's still around...

From the Sindar-Mablung could work, but seems a bit too, how can I put it, doggedly loyal, canine...

Dior-if he's chosen, I'll kill off Nimloth before marrying him to Nienor. An interesting choice bound to create lots of strife.

Tuor-No one will have the guts to choose this and go without Earendil. Still, the kinship would provide potential for a proper cursed hero to bring down Elf kingdoms, since Turin failed so spectacularly...opens up the wackiest story-lines, certainly. And it would give Idril what she deserves.

Morgoth: Well, he showed an interest in Luthien. A version of the maiden sacrifice?

I will probably vote Celebrimbor, but I'm tempted by Tuor, Dior, Celegorm and Maglor...

EDIT: For eviction I too wouldn't mind seeing Maeglin avenged. And Earendil's going to need all the help he can get-I've just realised we've evicted or I've killed off

Eonwe, Finarfin, Ingwe

and so rather reduced the Valarin Host...

So to ensure a safer Beleriand:

++ANCALAGON

[The Saucepan Man]

Plus he's her UNCLE, Saucie.Well, I said that it would muck things up ... :eek:

But I must admit that I had forgotten that little fact. :rolleyes:

Now, let's see. If we marry Nienor off to an Elf they will, unless they accomplish some act worthy of Eru's grace, live together for what will seem to the Elf only the flickering of an eye. That would leave one very broken-hearted Elf. Still, I'm tempted to suggest Celeborn, simply to save the poor chap from an eternity of being hen-pecked by Galadriel. :D

As for eviction, I agree with Lalaith that there are far too many Noldor left. To appease Ang, we can choose one who will not be involved in the forthcoming Fall of Gondolin. No idea who Salgant or Ereinon are, so they seem likely candidates, unless anyone would care to suggest a good reason for keeping them.

It would be a shame to cut Ancalagon down before he has had a chance to reach maturity. Besides, he plays rather an important role, later on doesn't he? Then again, it is possible that Smaug and Scatha have already hatched out. I would be happy to remove Ancalagon if it allowed them a role in the story.

[Anguirel]

Some clarifications-

Ereinion is Gil-Galad's real name.

Salgant is the Lord of Harps at Gondolin, a fat, merry, comic and contemptible character. I find him quite interesting.

[Lalaith]

Ang, I am NOT going to countenance Morgoth for Nienor. That really is too pervy for words.

[Anguirel]

It would make an amusing "La Belle et La Bete" write-up...

Anyone for evicting Idril? Oh, blast, Earendil pops up again. Why does he have to have such an irritating mother?

Ancalagon's only role, Saucie, is as Earendil's hunting trophy. "I sailed to Middle-earth and all I got was this lousy Dragon..."

[The Saucepan Man]

Ancalagon's only role, Saucie, is as Earendil's hunting trophy. "I sailed to Middle-earth and all I got was this lousy Dragon..."Come now, Ang, you can think up other things for him to do, surely. If he survives, how about giving him a role in the Fall of Gondolin?

For the task: I shall vote ++Celeborn for the reason stated earlier, and because it amuses me.

For eviction: I shall vote ++Celegorm, because he's still a nasty piece of work and there are too many Noldor.

[Anguirel]

For reasons set out above, I shall vote for ++CELEBRIMBOR.

Votes so far:

Nienor's Hand

Mim:1
Celeborn:1
Celebrimbor:1

Eviction

Ancalagon:2
Celegorm:1

Due to the late start, votes will close at 1:30 pm ish tomorrow.

[Gothmog]

Due to my ongoing illness with fever and a terrible headache, this won't be a long post. I'll just vote on the basis of other people's arguments. Sorry!

As for a man for Nienor, I want someone noble. She deserves some happiness in her life, especially if we look at her life in the original version. Someone like Glorfindel. Or Dior perhaps, at least half human (if you don't count Luthien as a mortal after her return to ME). Celebrimbor seems like a good choice too. Hmm... Glorfindel is about to die (fall of Gondolin) and Dior has found his Nimloth. That leaves:

++Celebrimbor

As for the eviction, I can't miss this opportunity to get rid of yet an other "evil C", the last one. He'll have to join his evil brothers Curufin and Caranthir.

++Celegorm

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Was not going to vote, but then I reaised that the lovely person mim deserved a nice wife. He has suffert so much and it would allso be fun to see what that will lead too. . .

++Mim

I am getting rather iritatet with Celegorm so he will have to go...(og for at hjælpe Anders)

++Celegorm

[Lalaith]

As it's been raining all day today, I feel there is something very appealing about a Celegorm/Nienor match. Lots of glowering, brooding and angst involved, all very Wuthering Heights.
So
++CELEGORM for Nienor.

Eviction: (to save Nienor's suitor)
++ANCALAGON

[Alcarillo]

It would be terrible if the Petty-Dwarves were to become extinct. To continue their line, I shall vote for Mim to become Nienor's husband. Hopefully, they will become the parents of a proud and noble race of Half-dwarves.

++Mim

And I shall vote off Uinen, just to give the Half-dwarves a hard time sailing to the future Numenor.

++Uinen

[Eonwe]

Gothmog, im with you 100% on this one.

for Nienor's husband ++Celebrimbor

and ill hand an eviction notice to ++Celegorm To the Void with yeh!!! ;)

[Celuien]

Okay, for eviction:
++ANCALAGON
to promote the safety of Middle-earth and to avenge Maeglin.

The idea of Mim as Nienor's husband amuses me immensely, so
++MIM

[The 1,000 Reader]

If it counts, ++Celebrimbor for marriage and ++Celegorm for doing away with.

[arcticstorm]

I think it would be interesting if Celebrimor married Nienor
++Celebrimor
But for eviction I would like to propose an alternative, we need to reunite Doriath under the girdle before it is too late. For that reason I will vote to evict ++Olwe

[Anguirel]

Olwe is dead, arctic! Glaurung ate him...

Nienor's Hand

Mim:4
Celeborn:1
Celebrimbor:4
Celegorm-1

Eviction

Ancalagon:4
Celegorm:4
Uinen-1

1000 reader's votes were not counted-a rule I do like to enforce occasionally, particularly against him...

Votes close in about six hours.

Lalaith, I would change my marriage vote to Celegorm but I'm really frightened Nienor will fall into the hands of Mim...

You beastly anti-Celegormists, leave me my last C. I killed one voluntarily for you, yet you vote them away before their time...fie on ye...

Read this story and see if you have pity...

Fallen to Ashes (http://henneth-annun.net/challenge/chapter_view.cfm?NGID=377&STID=5234&SPOrdinal=1)

Not by me...pretty good, isn't it?

[Lalaith]

I've done what I can to prevent a Celegorm eviction, Ang, nothing more I can help with there, but you can count me as a Celebrimbor for Nienor vote if you need to break the horrid Mim tie....

[arcticstorm]

oops, my bad, I was busy righting a paper at the last minute and just skimmed through the post and completely skipped over that part and the part about the girdle being restored, :o
anyway I do think that all of Doriath needs to have one ruler, even if the girdle had been restored. ++Dior

[Tuor of Gondolin]

So what happens if the marriage vote is a tie?
Polyandry? :D

(Maedhros walks into their dwelling): "What is a Man, an
elf, and a dwarf doing together.....Agh!" :eek:

[Gothmog]

You beastly anti-Celegormists, leave me my last C. I killed one voluntarily for you, yet you vote them away before their time...fie on ye...May I be one of those? ;)
I did read the story and it was beautiful, well written and all. But no pity for Celegorm, no. As before, I feel pity for those of the brothers which could have been great, noble leaders ef elves and because of the oath and their brothers was dragged into a net of murders and grief. Like Maglor. And Maedhros. They both showed "human" sides from time to time, especially Maglor. And that is seen in the story too, but Celegorm shows no signs of regret or feelings of guilt over what they've done. He and Curufin was lost from the first words of the oath I'm afraid.

And yes, i was both surprised and happy to see Caranthir go, but i will not give up before all off the Cs is gone. Maglor and Maedhros deserves a second chance in life, and it'll be interesting to see their development without the influence of their brothers.

And no over to the voting...This result could create a love-triangle of great proportions. A man, an elf and a dwarf? Wow... Not even in a tragic work like Silmarillion did something like thet occur. It will lead to disaster, and therefor I hope The 1,000th Reader will vote again with something of a reason to back up his voting. His choice's were good though :)

P.S. tack så mycket, Rune. Din hjälp är alltid välkommen. Antar att jag blir skyldig dig en gentjänst om vi får ut Celegorm.

[Anguirel]

Voting over. As Lalaith requested, in the event of the Celebrimbor/Mim tie her Celegorm vote will be changed to a Celebrimbor one.

Mim:4
Celeborn:1
Celebrimbor:5

Celebrimbor has won Nienor's hand in marriage!

Ancalagon:4
Celegorm:4
Uinen-1
Dior-1

Both Celegorm and Ancalagon are out.

Write-up coming!

[Tuor of Gondolin]

The anti-dwarf defamation society will hear of this
anti-dwarf bias (it seems really Petty).

However, Mim, generous soul that he is, is prepared
to accept (now that he doesn't have to look over
his shoulder for Turin) in recompense elf and
Mannish help in building and taking over some
modist dwelling, say--- Moria. (Oh, yeah, and
some matchmaking (he's not picky, Man, elf,
dwarf, whatever).

[Anguirel]

RESULTS OF DAY TWELVE (M-e)

After the victory over Glaurung at the Battle of Brethil, Maedhros and Maglor journeyed south, given free passage through Doriath, back to Ossiriand. Celegorm was also offered this free passage; but refused to travel by it until the Silmaril was returned to Maedhros. This Dior would not do, though he himself had stopped wearing it-it had begun to burn at him-giving it to Elwing his daughter. So it was that Celegorm and his followers were forced to skirt Doriath, taking the long northern road.

It was here that by chance Ancalagon was flying, on his journey from his humiliation at Maeglin's hands. His wounds on his wings were deep, and he flew awkwardly; he was often forced to rest, and now was one such pause. When Celegorm saw the vast, injured Dragon blocking his path, he called his hounds and charged it. But Ancalagon would not be so bested; in one exhalation he burnt Celegorm's prized pack. Driven by affront and rage, Celegorm ran home his keen lance before Ancalagon could breathe again. The creature expired, for the lance had struck the rent in Ancalagon's breast dealt by Anguirel; but in its death-throes it tore down Celegorm from his horse and slew him. Thus died Celegorm, impulsive and overconfident to the last; and his followers bore him back sadly to Ossiriand.

RESULTS OF THE CHALLENGE

At Nan Elmoth, Nienor buried the masked Elf who had called himself Lomion as he had asked, and laid the sword beside him. Then she returned into the heart of Melian's realm. Here a feast of reuniting was in progress between the Elves of Neldoreth and Doriath, though Dior's folk still kept apart. Galadriel came from Nargothrond with her cousin Celebrimbor; and love flourished between he and Nienor. But Mim the Petty-Dwarf came unexpected, and demanded Nienor as payment for his 299 slain sons. His suit was laughed at, but he was induced to accept instead a highly-paid post as the jester at Nargothrond...so Celebrimbor and Nienor were married, and returned there with the apparently mollified Mim.

In the meantime Tuor son of Huor had been guided by Ulmo's counsel to Gondolin; and Queen Idril was seized with love for him, neither knowing nor caring about the death of Maeglin. They were wedded, and had a son, Earendil. But Glorfindel did not look happily on these events, for he, too, had loved Idril in vain...

Day Thirteen in Middle-earth has begun! The contestants:

Tribes

VALAR

Elbereth
Ulmo
Mandos, Doom of

NOLDOR

Maedhros
Maglor
Celebrimbor
Ereinion
Galadriel
Idril
Salgant
Glorfindel
Finduilas
Gwindor

TELERI/SINDAR

Celeborn
Mablung
Cirdan
Nimloth
Elwing

MAIA

Melian
Uinen
Arien (with Sun)

DWARVES

Telchar of Nogrod (incidentally, probably by now a different character. But with the same name. Like Durin the Deathless...)
Mim the Petty-dwarf

MEN

Dior
Elured
Elurin
Tuor
Nienor

PEREDHIL

Earendil

FORCES OF EVIL

Morgoth
Sauron
Glaurung

Challenge thirteen: unlucky for all. Engineer the fall of Doriath (both Melian's and Dior's realms. You may evict either of these rulers.)

[Gothmog]

Cruel, Ang. Cruel as always. First the Glorfindel-loving-Idril hint to destroy the happy atmosphere and then this task. Revenge for a certain eviction, aye?

To evict Melian is one easy option. Without her the girdle will disappear and we know that it stopped most of the evil powers, with an exception for Glaurung, Ancalagon and a few more, strong dragons. Removing it would certainly make things a lot easier for Morgoth and his host. Besides her presence, beeing a maia, should encourage her people. Without her their morale will falter.

To have elves destroy elves will be a lot harder now when the agressive C brothers are evicted. As I remember, Celegorm was the one leading the assault on Menegroth, killing Dior. I say we go for a Melkorian attack instead.

And one other thing. If it's possible, I'd like to see Dior's sons, Elurin and Elured, meet an other fate than they did. I'd like to see them live and become adult. With the blood of Beren and Luthien, one drop man, one drop elf and one drop maia, their bound to end up as great characters. Just look at Elwing's fate! It was Celegorm's servant which left them in the woods to starve, and he's no longer around.

[Lalaith]

Yes, the poor babies. :( Let them live.

[Anguirel]

On Elured and Elurin-they will probably die young whatever happens; too little is known about them for them to be interesting heroes.

One alternative though; if Earendil somehow doesn't make it to adulthood, one or both of these brothers can take up his role (though obviously they wouldn't marry Elwing, so that means no Elrond or Elros...)

[Eonwe]

Celebrimbor and Nienor were married, and returned there with the apparently mollified Mim.

this makes me laugh! :)

righto. as gothmog said, very, very cruel, ang! but isn't life always cruel, especially when you're living in the silmarillion? anyway, melian is the obvious choice. no girdle, no protection. the sons of feanor offer no bulwark. so doriath is open to attact.

hmmm. i wonder if there would be a way to creat civil war in doriath. something about the silmaril? haven't thought about it (and i have to go to class), but that would be the best way to defeat doriath.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

There could be a loophole for Melian. What's to prevent her from
(metaphorically) wrapping the girdle in plastic wrap and setting
up elsewhere (The willow meads of Nan-Tathren, unspoiled
Lorien, etc.).

EDIT: Note to Anguirel. Mim could come out of this fine. He might
make a bundle with his stand-up act, convert money into jewels,etc.,
leave Doriath just in time and set up in Belgrod or Nevrast, where
he could restart the Petty Dwarf line with some dwarf maidens
attracted by his wealth, or alternately get Melian on the
rebound and have her girdle protect them in Nevrast or
Belgrod.

[Gothmog]

The cruel, Curufin-lover:On Elured and Elurin-they will probably die young whatever happens; too little is known about them for them to be interesting heroes.
But we don't know anything about Mim after Turin's departure either, other than that Hurin slayed him. And here he is! Not only has he proposed to Nienor, now he's going to work as a well paid jester at one of the elven courts! Surely you could come up with some sort of future for the two sons of Dior without having Earendil evicted.

Tuor: How are we supposed to make Melian move her girdle to some other place?

[Anguirel]

If Elured, Elurin, and Earendil all grow to adulthood, we're in for three immensely powerful Peredhil. Unless I make a couple of them Turin-style antiheroes it may be too much to bear...but we'll see how things go...

[Tuor of Gondolin]

"Tuor: How are we supposed to make Melian move her girdle to some other place?"
=========
By coincidence, my suggestion for elimination ties in with that. I
say + + Ulmo (much though I like him). This would not
only temporarily abash Melian but also lead to the possibility
of poisoning of the waters around and through Doriath (Morgoth
seeing this as a way to make Doriath untenable).

[Anguirel]

For reference, here are all the contestants currently in Doriath-

At Melian's Court

Melian
Celeborn
Mablung

At Dior's Court

Dior
Nimloth
Elwing (with Silmaril)
Elured
Elurin
Telchar of Nogrod (I think I forgot to mention this specifically, but he stayed in Brethil after the battle to help repair Dior's halls)

Out of these, Melian is the clear front-runner, with Dior a possible second, as the best warrior present (probably.)

If Melian does not go, then the armies of Morgoth will be halted again and only powerful Dragons and Balrogs will penetrate into the forest. Thus, if we seek a fall directly perpetrated by Morgoth, Melian should go.

An attack by the Sons of Feanor, as mentioned above, is now pretty untenable. Probably the only way you could allow it to happen would be to evict Maglor, in which case Maedhros's quite justified berserk rage will destroy anything in its path. However, as I'm a Maglor-worshipper, I naturally would rather this didn't happen.

There is a third way of bringing down Doriath, aside from starting civil war-I wonder if any of you can spot it?

[Lalaith]

What about Elwing and her Silmaril?

[arcticstorm]

I do not know how to get this to work, but the dwarves could also bring it down, probably by evicting elwing. Once Telchar gets his chance to take the silmarill, he will do anything to get it.

[Anguirel]

Spot on, arctic. I was as subtle as your average rhinoceros. That's exactly what I meant...

In that case it might be best to evict a warrior like Dior or Mablung, as the Dwarves are within the Girdle already.

I'm going to save up my vote till tomorrow...

[Gothmog]

Just out of curiosity, is Nauglamir created or is the silmaril "free"? Otherwise I find it hard to believe that Telchar would start a war and destroy both Melian's court and the court of Dior which he recently helped to build up. He's got no right to the jewel. But if it is indeed a part of Nauglamir, then I can understand a possible claim from the dwarfes, rightful or not... But I doubt Telchar is some sort of thief.

One way of creating elf vs elf war could be to have Celeborn killed and make it look like something Dior or Melian was responsible for. That could send Galadriel into some sort of bloodthirsty rage and since she's now queen of Nargothrond that would create a war. But it seems a bit unlikely.

I'll go with the easy solution because of reasons stated in my previous post and choose (EDIT: or rather pre-previous post)

++Melian

No saving of votes here ;) But one can always change a vote, right?

[Anguirel]

The Silmaril is free, Gothmog, and you bring up a good point; but all the same...remember Thorin and the Arkenstone, a nobler Dwarf than Telchar with a lesser gem than the Silmaril...though admittedly his claim was legitimate.

[arcticstorm]

Gothmog, from what I have read, it seemed to me that in the Silmarillion he wanted the silmaril for itself and used the Nauglamir as an excuse. I believe that given the chance, he will take it. So with that I will vote for ++Dior as I want the dwarves to take down Doriath.

[The 1,000 Reader]

++Melian.

Without her girdle, Doriath will suffer.

[Eonwe]

if we are being cruel, twisted beings wishing the worst for doriath (which i guess we are ;) ) that would be to have war between Doriath and Belegost, with Morgoth's forces mopping up the remenants of both.

++Dior

as much as it pains me....

[Anguirel]

To let the Dwarves strike harder, and to avenge Curufin-++DIOR...

Votes so far

Ulmo-1
Dior-2
Melian-2

Voting will close this afternoon at 1:30 or so...

[The Saucepan Man]

Ang, there are 3 votes already for Dior.

Whoever it is that brings down Doriath, the girdle is the major obstacle. While there are already Dwarves within the girdle, I doubt that they are of sufficient force to bring it down. No, the obvious vote is the best one today. And Melian has been around for far too long, anyway. It's time for her to go.

++MELIAN

[Anguirel]

Good catch, Saucie-

Ulmo-1
Melian-3
Dior-3

[Lalaith]

Ah, I've always been rather taken with Dior.....I think of him being rather exquisitely dressed.... :rolleyes:

But to save Melian, this fashion-plate must go....
++DIOR

[Gothmog]

arcticstorm:Gothmog, from what I have read, it seemed to me that in the Silmarillion he wanted the silmaril for itself and used the Nauglamir as an excuse. I believe that given the chance, he will take it. From what I've read, Telchar was never close to the silmaril. It is said that great craftmen from Nogrod made Nauglamir and that they felt the lust to possess it and therefor betrayed Thingol. Nowhere is the name Telchar mentioned, and as he is quite famous he should have been if he was involved. If there isn't more information somewhere else than in Silmarillion... I looked it up in Silm. to be sure.

And regarding Dior: personally I don't the eviction of him will make such a big difference. I mean a male called "the beautiful", does that sound like a mighty warrior? ;)

[Anguirel]

This Telchar probably isn't THE Telchar, remember. He is exactly what you describe-a great craftsman from Nogrod...

Most witty re: Dior, but he could be a proto-skateboarding Legolas. And he did kill Celegorm, who seems pretty macho to me...

[Gothmog]

Right...that's true, had forgotten about that. Question is: does Nauglamir exist? Was it ever created and if so, brought to Nargothrond with Finrod and if SO brought to Menegroth by Hurin? If not, whoever would be the substitute for Thingol (probably Dior), have no reason to ask the dwarfes for help to include the silmaril in it. And if their never asked to help, they'll never get access to the jewel and will not be tempted to own it. Besides, I think it'll be heavy guarded. Only reasons the dwarfes could take it was that they worked alone with it and only Thingol supervised them.


And a small question about your vote, Angand to avenge Curufin-++DIOR... It's not Celegorm your avenging? Had to to that you know ;)

[Anguirel]

No-I am avenging Curufin in this game, as in this game it was Curufin that Dior (sort of) killed. Celegorm, you will recall, went down with Ancalagon.

The Nauglamir is still in Nargothrond. The Nogrod chappies are in Doriath to mend Dior's halls which were trashed in the battle...

Ulmo-1
Melian-3
Dior-4

[Celuien]

++TICKLE-ME-ULMO
Let's see what happens without his protection of the waters.

[Anguirel]

Ulmo-2
Melian-3
Dior-4

Dior the Beautiful is about to be separated from his wardrobe. Write-up following.

[Anguirel]

RESULTS OF DAY THIRTEEN (M-e)

Dior was getting withdrawal symptoms. He twitched. He paced about. He tossed his fine head. But he could not subdue his longing to wear the Silmaril again.

Without it, he felt...so ugly! His grandmother was far prettier than him when he lacked his gem! This could not go on! No matter how much it burnt him, he would take it back.

"Daddy," a voice came, "why are you so distraught?"

Hah! Perfect timing! It was his prissy daughter Elwing! Dior turned, and said, slowly but firmly, "Pass me your Silmaril, dear."

"But father, you gave it to me..."

"It's mine, mine, do you hear!" the King of Brethil cried. Close to tears, his daughter surrendered it. Almost before he felt the searing in his hand, Dior slipped the silver chain which held the Silmaril over his neck...now his throat blazed, and his voice choked in agony. Weeping, Elwing tried to take the jewel back, but her father drew his sword on her.

"Don't come...any...closer...Silmaril...mine..."

And so Dior burnt to death, just as Curufin, his foe, had done, for the Silmaril's sake.

RESULTS OF THE CHALLENGE

Elwing would not touch the jewel as it lay among the ashes, but ran through the halls, looking for her brothers and her mother. The family rushed to the scene.

"We shall go to Melian," Nimloth declared. "She will shelter us." And the widowed Queen took up the gem by its chain as it blazed their way.

But the rumours had reached Telchar and his smiths, who had not been paid for their building, and they followed the Queen; and a glimpse of the white light enslaved them. They surrounded the royal family, and demanded the Silmaril. When Nimloth ordered them away, they seized their axes. Only Elwing escaped the slaughter, hiding beneath the enchanted cloak of Luthien's hair; and the Naugrim bore away the jewel.

When Melian beheld through her arts what seemed to be the massacre of her daughter's family, she forsook Middle-earth, defeated at last by misfortune.

But neither would the Dwarves escape with their plunder; for the Laiquendi brought word of the theft to Maedhros and Maglor. The High King of the Noldor laid a trap between the rivers of Ossiriand; and the Dwarves were cut down. But Telchar hurled the Silmaril which scalded him even through his dwarf-mail into the water of a river, shortly before Maedhros slew him. And the gem flowed down the river and came to Sirion, where it revealed itself to Elwing when she fled there.

Day Fourteen in Middle-earth! The contestants:

Tribes

VALAR

Elbereth
Ulmo
Mandos, Doom of

NOLDOR

Maedhros
Maglor
Celebrimbor
Ereinion
Galadriel
Idril
Salgant
Glorfindel
Finduilas
Gwindor

TELERI/SINDAR

Celeborn
Mablung
Cirdan
Elwing

MAIA

Uinen
Arien (with Sun)

DWARVES

Mim the Petty-dwarf

MEN

Tuor
Nienor

PEREDHIL

Earendil

FORCES OF EVIL

Morgoth
Sauron
Glaurung

Fourteenth challenge-the Humbling of the Gnomes. Bring down Nargothrond. (Gondolin tomorrow!)

[arcticstorm]

++Arien
I think the time has come for us to bring down the sun, the darkness will make it much easier for Morgoth's forces to take down both Nargothrond and Gondolin, I just want Mim tro escape with his life, being the only remaining dwarf. but I do not think that is possible.

[The 1,000 Reader]

++Arien.

The reasons above state my opinion. She better still blow herself up before Morgoth rapes her, though. Don't be cruel, Ang.

[Anguirel]

Hmmm. Methinks today needs lengthening.

I remind viewers that Morgoth still does not know Nargothrond's location. For him to discover it, one of two things must occur-

1. The folk of Nargothrond become confident enough to march against him.

2. A traitor reveals Nargothrond's secret.

Here are the contestants presently in Nargothrond-

Queen Galadriel
Celeborn (fled there after fall of Doriath)
Celebrimbor
Nienor
Finduilas
Gwindor
Mim, the jester

Isolate characters by evicting their friends/lovers to create traitors, or eliminate counsellors who advocate caution. Or, best of all, both...

I have decided on my likely vote but will only announce it when I see a bit more action. In the meantime-

Arien-2

[Celuien]

++CELEBRIMBOR

Methinks Mim was only "apparently mollified," so that if given the chance to re-pursue his claim on Nienor with Celebrimbor out of the way, he would do so. Refused again, he could easily turn traitor.

[Lalaith]

Ang, I can't remember, is Finduilas currently hooked up with anyone?

[Anguirel]

Finduilas is still mourning Turin. Gwindor is still fruitlessly pursuing her...

[Gothmog]

Is there going to be an end to the suffering of our poor elves? Or is Ang on a killing spree that will lead to the extinction of all pointy-eared creature this side of the giant swimmingpool?

Mim would be a perfect traitor. He's done it before after all... It is a good plan to remove Celebrimbor, but what if Nienor doesn't refuse Mim's proposal this time? ;) Scary thought...

Removing Gwindor in should work IF there's someone to speak for a more agressive tactic. Now when Turin's gone, maybe Galadriel can take his role? But she's the queen, and if she wanted a more forward strategy, she had already made it show. But could Gwindor be the traitor? He has lost his love, betrayed by his best friend and left without power in the court of Nargothrond. If we removed Finduilas, what could stop him from going over the edge? Or is his loyalty to the kingdom (queendom?) to great? If so, he may become a traitor not knowing it, like Hurin betrayed Gondolin's location.

So that leads me to either Celebrimbor or Finduilas. I'll wait with my vote until I've heard some more voices...

[The Saucepan Man]

I like Celuien's reasoning.

++ CELEBRIMBOR

For the reasons stated by Celuien.

[Anguirel]

Gothmog raises an interesting point: who will speak for an agressive strategy now Turin is gone?

My answer is: Turin's sister, Nienor. She will sway her husband, whose despised father Curufin started the isolationism of Nargothrond. And Celebrimbor will have influence with the Queen.

Only the sage and knowing advice of Gwindor, and maybe the Queen's own wisdom, will delay such an approach.

This leaves us with several options-evict Gwindor and see if Celebrimbor can persuade Galadriel, or evict Galadriel, let Celebrimbor take the throne, and watch him challenge Morgoth head on.

As for treachery-I don't really see that Celebrimbor's departure will make Mim more likely to turn traitor. Even if he doesn't get Nienor, he'll have been revenged on his rival. Would Maeglin have betrayed Gondolin in the book so eagerly if Tuor had been killed before his capture?

I think Gwindor and Finduilas would both be better options. With Gwindor gone, Finduilas will have no confidante to turn to, and embittered by her rejected bid for the crown may try desperate schemes. With Finduilas gone, Gwindor's life will be empty and nihilistic, putty for Morgoth to work on.

So-my lead candidates are Galadriel, Gwindor and Finduilas, in that order. However, I like, nay, adore, Galadriel, so I'm voting

++GWINDOR

Arien-2
Celebrimbor-2
Gwindor-1

[Lalaith]

I wouldn't have minded kicking out Finduilas as she always annoyed me in the Sil - although I have to confess that Ang's revisionism has made her considerably less drippy.
I'll go ++GWINDOR because I think poor Nienor, the sole survivor of the Hurin dynasty, has had enough trouble in her life. But I'll switch to Celebrimbor in case of a draw, to save Arien. I think plunging Middle-Earth into starlit gloom is a bit drastic.

[Gothmog]

I will not break this three way tie, so my vote is:

++Finduilas

Of reasons stated above. I think Gwindor can be the traitor, knowing or not, if she's evictet.

Let's see who breaks the tie :) Otherwise, this could turn real nasty. What if there's an other vote for Finduilas? Not much people left for the orcs to kill...Interesting!

[Lalaith]

Hmmm....this is getting interesting. What deadline are we talking about, AngMod?

[Anguirel]

Hmmm. Let's say...7:30 this evening, in five hours...

Arien-2
Celebrimbor-2
Gwindor-2
Finduilas-1

Lalaith, if you switch to Celebrimbor, I'll switch to Arien! I'm not having another beloved Feanorian go down without taking a decent character with him...

[arcticstorm]

from reading the information presented so far, the best choice woild be --Arien ++Gwindor

[Lalaith]

All right, keep your hair on. I'm not particularly fussed re Celebrimbor. We could both switch to Finduilas if you like.

[Anguirel]

Hair retained and deal struck! But it looks like we may not have to...

Arien-1
Celebrimbor-2
Gwindor-3
Finduilas-1

[Gothmog]

Oh, come on, switch to Finduilas you two. It's lonely here and that would create a new tie. The reason to vote for Finduilas is to get Gwindor frustrated and vice versa. Interesting if both goes ;)

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Due to requests from S.A.P.S.
The S ociety for the A dmiration of P etty DwarveS ,a vote for
+ + Celebrimbor is cast so those two star-crossed kids
Mim and Nienor can finally get together.

[Lalaith]

Gothmog, I'm happy to switch, but I don't think Ang will because of his Feanorian issues...Celebrimbor is currently under threat....

[Anguirel]

My mind is read! So far-

Arien-1
Celebrimbor-3
Gwindor-3
Finduilas-1

Gothmog, all you'll achieve is Celebrimbor's downfall, and both Gwindor and Finduilas will stay. Or perhaps that's your real aim; not content with throwing out Curufin, you target his son as well-for shame!

[Gothmog]

But you're mistaken Ang! I proposed the switch before Celebrimbor was under this new threat. A switch back then would have created a tie between Finduilas and Gwindor. I've got nothing against Celebrimbor. He's a fine lad, turning his back to his evil dad like that. I'm not anti-Feanorian, just Anti-Evil Cs ;)

Oh, I checked Lalaith vote again. It wouldn't been a tie between Finduilas and Gwindor. I thought she voted for Celebrimbor. Sorry! But I must have confused more things...hmm...I don't know how I was thinking, but it seemed clever at the time.

I'm thinking of changing my vote to break the tie, but I think I'll stay out of this.

[Lalaith]

Oh go on Gothmog, there's a dear. After all, you might need a favour later on in the game...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I think i it is just wishfull thinking that leads you when you vote Celebrimbor.

Of Finduilas and Gwindor, I see Gwindor as most likely to become a traitor, he has been broken once a second time and there is not much of an elf left in him.

++Finduilas

[The Saucepan Man]

I'm feeling guilty for having persecuted Ang too much ... :rolleyes:

And the arguments against Gwindor and Finduilas are compelling. Although, they both seem dependant upon the death of the other. I will create a tie and rely on another to break it.

-- CELEBRIMBOR
++ FINDUILAS

[Lalaith]

Right-ho.
++FINDUILAS

[Gothmog]

There you go, you came to my side at last, Lalaith ;) Now we're waiting for Ang...

[Anguirel]

Arien-1
Celebrimbor-2
Gwindor-3
Finduilas-4

Voting closed. Sorry I'm late. Write-up may be a tad hurried due to closing network...

[The 1,000 Reader]

No problem. Just don't go overboard. If your stressed out, take a nap or drink some tea.

[Anguirel]

RESULTS OF DAY FOURTEEN (M-e)

Though her heart still mourned Turin, outwardly Finduilas began to lead a life of reckless gaiety. She rarely slept, and wandered the palace, a goblet of wine almost always in each hand.

Mim noticed her increasing lack of discipline, and determined to use it against her. His rejection had turned his desire for elven maids to poisonous hatred. So it was that he slipped a deadly Petty-Dwarven venom into one of her goblets...

Now the effects of her debauchery began to show. She wasted away, shrunk, wrinkled, aged. When she died weeks later, she resembled an old mortal woman, even as Gwindor looked like an old man.

RESULTS OF THE CHALLENGE

Gwindor's life was now without hope or purpose. He spent company with the jester, Mim, taking pleasure from his bitter philosophising. By Mim's advice, he wandered carelessly beyond the Guarded Plain by night, and fell into the hands of Orcs. He gave away the secrets of Nargothrond without remorse. "Go there and bring their death and yours." Then he fell lifeless to the ground, broken by sorrow.

And so the Orc-host, led by Glaurung, surged into the Guarded Plain. But a messenger from ruined Dor-Lomin arrived, bringing Nienor the black sword of her brother.

In that hour Celeborn fell to the Dragon, and the army of Nargothrond was routed. Celebrimbor was slain in the caves, marshalling the citizens to resistance. But as Glaurung drew night to Galadriel in the palace itself, Nienor leapt from behind a pillar, and struck the monster in the belly with her brother's sword. So died Glaurung; and Nienor and Galadriel made their stand; but the Orcs were too many, and all Nargothrond at last was slain. In her last moment Galadriel wove an enchantment that brought the caves down upon them all; and so not one Orc of that horde escaped the ruin, and Gwindor's prophecy was made complete.

And Mim too perished in the caves his forefathers had delved.

It's Day Fifteen in Middle-earth! The contestants:

Tribes

VALAR

Elbereth
Ulmo
Mandos, Doom of

NOLDOR

Maedhros
Maglor
Ereinion
Idril
Salgant
Glorfindel

TELERI/SINDAR

Mablung
Cirdan
Elwing

MAIA

Uinen
Arien (with Sun)

MEN

Tuor

PEREDHIL

Earendil

FORCES OF EVIL

Morgoth
Sauron

The fifteenth challenge-the long-awaited Fall of Gondolin!

[Celuien]

A sad day! Celeborn and Galadriel lost in the blink of an eye. After such a disappointment, why not promote the greatest possible destruction in Gondolin?

Main candidates:

Arien - casting Middle-earth into darkness to aid the attack.
Glorfindel - things can't go as well without him to fight the Balrog.
Idril - if she hasn't prepared the back way out of Gondolin yet, eliminating her will make it harder for anyone to escape.
Tuor - loss of a leader to increase chaos in the attack.
Ulmo - we already have Earendil, so apparently Tuor has arrived in Gondolin with Ulmo's warnings, but if he's gone, Nan-tathren won't be a safe haven after escape.

I'm leaning somewhat toward Arien.

[Lalaith]

Yes, Celuien, I'm not too happy at all about Galadriel being gone. What's Tory Boy playing at? I thought he liked her?

Your shortlist makes sense, though. However, Tuor is the only Man left, I think we should leave him. Ditto Idril, the only remaining Lady of the Noldor.
Of the three remaining candidates, I'm inclined to vote ++GLORFINDEL because I think we're going to need the other two in the long term.

[Anguirel]

I do like Galadriel. And Celeborn. And Celebrimbor. And Nienor.

Unfortunately they form almost the entire contestant population of Nargothrond, and I felt it would be a bit unconvincing if the great horde of Morgoth destroyed the kingdom but only succeeded in slaying a Petty-Dwarf...

And let's keep my poor beleaguered Jacobite liberal Royalist Romantic Cameronista pro-hunting politics out of this, if you please...

[Tuor in Gondolin]

+ + Glorfindel seems the most logical. Some other way of dispatching
a Balrog can be envisioned, say, an attack by the Eagles putting the
Balrog offbalance and falling off a cliff.

[Anguirel]

Without Manwe, the Eagles aren't coming...

I say Idril. Her escape route is already built for the others, and I wish to be revenged on her for her prissy, disdainful treatment of Maeglin. Besides, with Idril gone Glorfindel, who I made fall in love with her if you recall, will have no incentive to turn traitor.

++IDRIL

[The 1,000 Reader]

++Arien. An everlasting darkness will aid Morgoth. Why, you ask? Well, the reason is........



........it's all about the special effects. :cool:

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

This is a hard decision to make because the fall of Gondolin will happen no mather what. . .

It seems that our quest is to get even more people killed or lessen the loss of Morgoth's forces.

I will go with the last one and the thing that would insure a even more devestating victory is too. . . . Get rid of Arien. This way Gondolin will have even shorter time to muster their defense in and therfor they will not be abel to kill as many Balrogs/Orcs/whatever.

++Arien

[Anguirel]

Actually, I may decide to keep Gondolin standing if your choice is especially flimsy. Don't rule out the possibility!

[arcticstorm]

I would like to point out something about Glorfindel. He loves Idril and is jealous of Tuor, he will more than likely be the one to betray its location to Morgoth.

[Anguirel]

Or is that just what I want you to think?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

This is a hard decision to make because the fall of Gondolin will happen no mather what. . .

OK, forget this quote it did not happen!

What I really wrote was : This is a hard decision to make because it is highly unlikely that Gondolin will not fall, unless we forget our objective and vote off Morgoth or Mandos, Doom of

[Gothmog]

I don't think it matters much what who we vote for of the people in Gondolin. They'll probably die anyway. Like in Nargothrond, did it matter who died from the eviction? No, Ang will make sure every elf in Gondolin in slaughtered, believe me! :p

But, as Glorfindel and the late Ecthelion are two favourites of mine, I'll vote

++Arien

To give Glorfindel a chance to survive. If he's not stupid enough to go and challenge one of those noble and beautiful, misunderstood creatures called Balrogs. I mean, they have to defend themselves, don't they? If some hot headed young elf lord startes a fight, off course they're going to use some self-defence! Don't blame them!

The darkness will help the creatures of Morgoth by concealing them, demoralize the defenders and create chaos when the battle begin. But at the same time I hope it will conceal some refugees fleeing the destruction. After all, our task is the fall of Gondolin, not total devastation.

And the score so far: (I think)
Idril---------1
Glorfindel----2
Arien--------3

[Celuien]

Hmm. Especially flimsy...

We could vote off Sauron. I've suspected for some time that Sauron frequently visited Gondolin in disguise as a traveling salesman by the name of Wili Lomion. He got in by pretending to be the real Lomion, but then sold vinyl siding. Once the sample case came out, though, he was invariably evicted. He never gave away the location before since he always hoped he could make a great sale and earn a big commission. Now that the real Lomion is dead, this disguise won't work anymore, so if our traveling salesman really is Sauron, he has no incentive to keep Gondolin's location secret from Morgoth.

Does anyone else share this suspicion? If not, I'll either vote for Glorfindel or join any upcoming wacky theories to get rid of Morgoth or Mandos, Doom of.

[arcticstorm]

We need to keep Earendil alive. SO hmm, this is a tough vote, because Melkor does not know where Godolin is yet, he doesn't even have a clue, so i cannot see it being betrayed and I see know way for it to fall yet. So what I will do is vote for ++Glorfindel based on Angmod's thing about them not being betrayed by Glorfindel and his Balrog fighting, he would be a good choice.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I don't get why you vote Glorfindel it is not like it helps bringing down Gondolin, neither does it speed up the proces. The only thing that will happen is that we will find out if there is another elf among those who escaped the fall who is mighty enough to take on a Balrog.

That's what I think at least. . .

[Celuien]

I don't get why you vote Glorfindel it is not like it helps bringing down Gondolin, neither does it speed up the proces. The only thing that will happen is that we will find out if there is another elf among those who escaped the fall who is mighty enough to take on a Balrog.

That's what I think at least. . .

Ah, buy maybe we're trying to invoke the flimsy argument clause. Or at least to minimize damage. Plus, the other leader in the vote count is Arien, whose elimination would certainly spell disaster. Glorfindel may have to earn my vote just to break the current tie and save the sun.

In fact, let's just vote now.
++GLORFINDEL
I'll switch to Idril if I am no longer needed on the Arien preservation front.

[The Saucepan Man]

Ah, buy maybe we're trying to invoke the flimsy argument clause.But isn't the point to try to pass the challenge?

It seems slightly strange that those who would save Gondolin if they could are given no disincentive to fail the challenge. Surely there should be some sanction ...

In any event, I shall apply my mind to passing the challenge. The way Ang has set things up, it seems that Idril, Tuor and Glorfindel need to stay alive in order to provoke Glorfindel into turning traitor and revealing to Morgoth the location of Gondolin. Unless some other resident of the city could be persuaded to turn traitor (thus saving Gorfindel from carrying out the ignoble task).

But who?

The only other citizen of Gondolin up for eviction, as far as I can see, is Salgant and I can't see any ready means of persuading him to turn traitor.

Hmm, unless someone comes up with anything better, I am going to have to vote for Arien. When's the deadline for today, Ang?

[Anguirel]

In theory it was now, Saucie, but I see I neglected to mention that, so vote away and then I'll close it and do the write-up.

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, in the absence of any better ideas, and to enhance the efficacy of Morgoth's forces, I shall vote:

++ARIEN

[Anguirel]

Voting closed:

Glorfindel-4
Idril 1
Arien-4

(I think. Do tell me if I'm wrong...)

Glorfindel and Arien are both doomed, and perhaps Gondolin with them...

[Anguirel]

Due to Mediaeval Hist essay, I've postponed the write-up to tomorrow morning. Awfully sorry...