WWJ V: The Broken Souls

[Sleepy Ranger]

Something inside me screams,
These streets are haunted,
And the silence of sleep has been ripped away by these messy dreams,
I can feel them watching me, I am wanted.

Her hair was red, stained by blood,
Her smile was terror, those teeth were fangs,
She carried us all away in the horror of the flood,
And on day by day another one of us hangs.

I look at you, you look at me,
As their bodies burned on in the never-ending holes,
We both agree this is how it was supposed to be,
And you know, we're just another pair of broken souls.

-Sleepy Ranger

---

Rules

-Non-Retraceable Votes
-Double Lynchings are allowed
-When making a vote please keep it in a line seperate from the rest of the post and have it in bold with two pluses (++). (Even you, dear)
-Please stay invisible for your duration of the game.
-Refrain from discussing the game outside the playing area.
-There shall be no posting during the night.
-The deadline is 2pm EST, 3pm CST and 7pm GMT.
-It may be cliched but, 'Enjoy yourself!'

---

Players

JennyHallu - The friendly neighborhood nutcase waving a doomsday sign around
Roa_Aoife - Babysitter, the blonde, large chested one that always runs upstairs when she should be running out of the house
Nogrod - Post-Structuralist musician
Thinlomien - Sculpter specialiazing in making nightmarish birds.
Naria - Butcher
Valier - The Cruel Duchess Valier
Gil-Galad - Bell Ringer
Anguirel - Herald at arms
THE Ka - Moreish Pavlovian Psychologist
Witch_Queen - Homeless guy
Eonwe - Gold Miner
Valesse - Poultry gender analysist
Holbytlass - Governess
Littlemanpoet - Traveling minstrel/bard
Encaitare - a scientist who specializes in analyzing small pebbles and other silly things

---

It is now night, werewolves you may PM each other. Seers, PM each other and decide who you wish to dream about. I'll need your name before the night is up.

"Gentlemen, ladies, Are you ready? Let the games begin!"

[Sleepy Ranger]

JennyHallu

It was a chilly day in an age long past. Alone in a street corner stood a woman, carrying a sign proclaiming the end of the world. His steps were quick and noiseless, she never saw him coming but once he stood there in front of her she just looked up in wonder, he smiled. Nobody had smiled at her for a while, especially not a stranger. "It shall be over soon." He said, his voice was soothing and Jenny believed him, it would be over soon.

Roa_Aoife

She sat there counting her money on a park bench by herself. They had called her stupid, they had laughed at her. She would show them who was better, it wouldn't be long now. His steps were quick and noiseless, she never saw him coming but once he stood there in front of her she just looked up in wonder, he smiled. Nobody had smiled at her when she was in one of those moods. "It shall be over soon." He said, his voice was soothing and Roa believed him, it would be over soon.

Nogrod

There he was, a lone boy with his music. He was staring at a brick wall and had no idea where his life was headed. Things had not been good for Nogrod but he still tried, he was sure he would have a run of good luck eventually. His steps were quick and noiseless, he never saw him coming but once he stood there in front of him he just looked up in wonder, the man smiled. Nobody would smile at him these days, nobody cared about some random guy on the street. "It shall be over soon." He said, his voice was soothing and Nogrod believed him, it would be over soon.

Thinlomien

She sat there putting the finishing touches on her newest masterpiece. She had been cast away by society, she had been called a freak due to what she made. The people were too narrow-minded to see the beauty in her work. His steps were quick and noiseless, she never saw him coming but once he stood there in front of her she just looked up in wonder, he smiled. Nobody had smiled at her sculptures before. "It shall be over soon." He said, his voice was soothing and Thinlomien believed him, it would be over soon.

Naria
She laughed as she cut the meat that nobody would buy. Her small store was rarely visited by anyone, it reeked of the smell of death but that did not bother her, she just laughed as she did her job. His steps were quick and noiseless, she never saw him coming but once he stood there in front of her she just looked up in wonder, he smiled. Nobody had smiled at her inside her store before. "It shall be over soon." He said, his voice was soothing and Naria believed him, it would be over soon.

Valier

She stood at the gate of her manor, getting drenched in the rain. She watched the shadowy world go by, each one was just a trinket to her but she didn't want a trinket. She wanted pure gold. His steps were quick and noiseless, she never saw him coming but once he stood there in front of her she just looked up in wonder, he smiled. Nobody had smiled at her, they had always kept away from her. "It shall be over soon." He said, his voice was soothing and Valier believed him, it would be over soon.

Gil-Galad

*ding**ding**ding* There he stood under a tree ringing bells to his hearts desire. Many who passed him sneered at him and told him to shut that infernal racket but he did not listen to them, only to the bells. His steps were quick and noiseless, he never saw him coming but once he stood there in front of him he just looked up in wonder, the man smiled. Nobody had smiled at him when he was ringing his bells. "It shall be over soon." He said, his voice was soothing and Gil-Galad believed him, it would be over soon.

Anguirel

Everyday he ran around giving message from one man to another. None of these people ever really bothered to look at him and that suited Anguirel just fine. One day when he was loitering around instead of doing his job he found himself mesmeriesed by the flow of a nearby river, it looked different in a way. His steps were quick and noiseless, he never saw him coming but once he stood there in front of him he just looked up in wonder, the man smiled. Nobody had smiled at him before, nobody would even look at him. "It shall be over soon." He said, his voice was soothing and Anguirel believed him, it would be over soon.

THE Ka

She lay there on the grass staring upwards at the night sky. Today had in no way been a good day, in fact it seemed life had begun a steady journey downwards. She sighed, things weren't in her hands anymore or so it seemed. His steps were quick and noiseless, she never saw him coming but once he stood there in front of her she just looked up in wonder, he smiled. Nobody had smiled at her for the last few months, it seemed money did buy friends. "It shall be over soon." He said, his voice was soothing and Ka believed him, it would be over soon.

Witch_Queen

As she sat there by her precious cardboard box, the cool wind cutting her to the bone, she whistled a tune of an old song she had heard somewhere. The only creatures she had for company were rats. His steps were quick and noiseless, she never saw him coming but once he stood there in front of her she just looked up in wonder, he smiled. Nobody had smiled at her, they had always kept away from her. "It shall be over soon." He said, his voice was soothing and Witch Queen believed him, it would be over soon.

Eonwe

As he sat outside his mine, drinking water in large sips, sweat cracking his broken body. There had been no gold till now, maybe he ought to consider changing his occupation to mining from gold mining. His steps were quick and noiseless, he never saw him coming but once he stood there in front of him he just looked up in wonder, the man smiled. Nobody had smiled at him before, nobody even knew he existed. "It shall be over soon." He said, his voice was soothing and Eonwe believed him, it would be over soon.

Valesse

She stood there just outside her house. Figuring out the gender of poultry was a strange job but this was a strange lady here. She stood there looking at the tree across the street as if waiting for it to move. His steps were quick and noiseless, she never saw him coming but once he stood there in front of her she just looked up in wonder, he smiled. Nobody had smiled at her and if they had she wouldn't care but now she did. "It shall be over soon." He said, his voice was soothing and Valesse believed him, it would be over soon.

Holbytlass

Being a governess was a tiring job, you had to move about and talk to fake people while being marginably fake yourself but it was one she managed to do with ease. Yet here as she stood alone after a speech she felt sorrowful. His steps were quick and noiseless, she never saw him coming but once he stood there in front of her she just looked up in wonder, he smiled. Nobody had given her a real smile, they were all masks but here she had before her a true smile. "It shall be over soon." He said, his voice was soothing and Holbytlass believed him, it would be over soon.

Littlemanpoet

He stepped out of the inn for some fresh air, after breathing in all the smoke filled air the cool, dawn air was a pleasent sensation. Jumping from town to town had never been pleasent but that was the life he had chosen and that was the life he would live but he oft did wish it had been different. His steps were quick and noiseless, he never saw him coming but once he stood there in front of him he just looked up in wonder, the man smiled. Nobody had smiled at him before, not that friendly smile that this man was giving him. "It shall be over soon." He said, his voice was soothing and LMP believed him, it would be over soon.

Encaitare

She was observing some pebbles after getting thrown out of the 'Biggest Scientific Meeting Ever'. She then moved onto buckets and kept on looking at various other things, her studies had gathered her many haters. His steps were quick and noiseless, she never saw him coming but once he stood there in front of her she just looked up in wonder, he smiled. Nobody had given smiled at her before, though they had laughed at her "It shall be over soon." He said, his voice was soothing and Encaitare believed him, it would be over soon.

[Sleepy Ranger]

And so it was that the fates of these fifteen people had become intertwined. As the years went by they grew closer to this man, he visited them often and was full of many magnificent and wonderful tales. He revealed his name to be Sleepy Ranger but not once did he breathe word of one to the other. None of the fifteen knew the other existed. Then one evening each of them recieved a letter,

Dear friend,
We have known each other for many years now and I believe it is time to head forward and make something of these lives. Travel to the mountains, I will meet you there.

Your Friend,
Sleepy Ranger

And so they left, each of them left their homes and their lives and headed to where they had been directed. He met each of them seperately and led them to a town surrounded by hills. It was a beautiful place and there they lived togther in peace and harmony until one night it all changed.

One night all through out the mountains strange whirring of machinery could be heard and near daybreak there was a shrill shriek heard throughout the city. Sleepy Ranger had vanished but nobody was worried, he would leave ocassionaly without giving word to anyone but he would always be back in a few days, a month passed. Sleepy still hadn't returned. People grew worried and the community began to fall apart, those who had once been friends were now bitter foes but those fifteen who had known him so well came together and under the cover of the night they left the city in search of Sleepy, leaving the rest behind to kill each other.

After three months of searching they finally found him, he explained that he had been called away on urgent business and on the way back he had suffered an injury which detained him. When they explained what had become of the land they loved so much Sleepy sighed, there was pure sorrow on his face and he seemed to be on the verge of tears but he led them forth once again and finally after a month they found a place to call home for a while. Near it was an abandone city, Sleepy warned them to go nowhere near it and when they asked why all he would say was, " 'Tis evil."

Two months later Sleepy had again vanished, this time his friends decided to take immediate action. Intuition drove them into the abandoned town and sure enough they found Sleepy in the center of the town. He had been impaled on the cupid's arrow that had once provided water for the fountain, it now spurted blood, Sleepy's. Upon further examination it was discovered that his throat had been slashed and his head was just barely connected to his body, when it tilted back a bit a fountain of blood would gush out of his corpse. They tied a tourniquet around his neck and began to carry him back to his home, where they would give him their final respects.

But no, all gates leading in and out of the town had been shut. They were trapped there was no way out. An insane voice spoke up from nowhere, "Welcome to my town, won't you stay? Won't you? We can have so much fun!" The sentence trailed into a series of insane chuckles. "You want to go? Spoilsports! Thats no fun, just for that I'm going to keep the fountains filled with fresh blood. His..." Sleepy Ranger's corpse just vanished, vanished right in front of them. "...and yours!" the voice broke off into hysterical laughter. "Look there!" pointed one of them, due to all the confusion it was impossible to remember who it was but in the place where Sleepy's body had been was now a note,

"They planned it! They're our friends, how could they? But no, they've planned it! They'll kill us all! May you be safe my friends, I love you all even those who betrayed us."
-Sleepy Ranger

JennyHallu
Roa_Aoife
Nogrod
Thinlomien
xSleepy Rangerx (Ooooh! You're so dead now!)
Naria
Valier
Gil-Galad
Anguirel
THE Ka
Witch_Queen
Eonwe
Valesse
Holbytlass
Littlemanpoet
Encaitare

The fifteen looked from one to another. Sleepy was dead, it was up to them now to ensure that they would get out of here alive. Their eyes crossed one another as darkness conquered the sky.

---

Night 1

Alive

JennyHallu - The friendly neighborhood nutcase waving a doomsday sign around
Roa_Aoife - Babysitter, the blonde, large chested one that always runs upstairs when she should be running out of the house
Nogrod - Post-Structuralist musician
Thinlomien - Sculpter specialiazing in making nightmarish birds.
Naria - Butcher
Valier - Cruel Duchess
Gil-Galad - Bell Ringer
Anguirel - Herald at arms
THE Ka - Moreish Pavlovian Psychologist
Witch_Queen - Homeless guy
Eonwe - Gold Miner
Valesse - Poultry gender analysist
Holbytlass - Governess
Littlemanpoet - Traveling minstrel/bard
Encaitare - a scientist who specializes in analyzing small pebbles and other silly things

Dead

Sleepy Ranger (mod) - Impaled on a cupid's arrow with his head nearly cut off.

[Sleepy Ranger]

And as the sun rose the same voice echoed through the town. "Rise and shine my dears. Its time for the games to begin." All of them, surprisingly, had managed to get enough sleep that night. They had set watch at different times yet none of them had any idea who a large pile of weapons had appeared near their camp in the morning. Near it was a note, written in the same childish hand-writing that had scribbled down the names at the end of Sleepy's note. "For your killing pleasure." it read. The fifteen looked from one to the other, they knew one of them wouldn't survive the day.

Wolves and Seers stop PMing. It is now day time, now is the time the game truly begins, my players. Use your time well and good luck to all sides.

[Anguirel]

An eerie silence grasps this cursed burgh.
Its citizens seem to be slain in war...
Yet we must speak, while time to us remains.
Perhaps 'tis fitting that the herald's lips
Which oft did gory battle-plain embroil
Do now commence this combat, vile and grim.
Where are ye, gentles? Answer this, my cry!
Think ye that spillers of most goodely blood
The blessed Ranger strong and somnolent
Yet come from us? Ah, fie upon such treason!
To arms, fellows, to arms! Avenge the stalwart lost!
And ponder on the cruel slayer and scribe.

[Naria]

A nervous laughter came from the butcher's mouth. I know that I haven't been getting much business as of late but this is ridiculous! Now I not only have non existent customers, but I also have no shop. What is going on?!

[Eonwe]

Well, now, locked in a demonic city whose fountains are filled with blood, eh? Bodes not well, my friends. However, I will set instantly to work with my pickaxe: hopefully I will happen upon an ancient aquaduct or sewer system, or whatnot.

[littlemanpoet]

We've lost our leader! May he be mourned!
Traitors trouble us, scorn is their skill!
They'll kill in the dark till death's our doom.
Speak, each one of us, for in words the Were
may be found then fettered, and done to death
if luck be our guide. Let us begin.

{With these words declaimed in chant, LMP (also known as Elempí) began.}

I'll not jest nor riddle my way through these dire days ahead. Nor shall I claim innocence or guilt. Rather, by my aid in our attempts to oust our foes shall you see proven that I have not betrayed you. And so, for now, I will listen a while.

[Anguirel]

Lest yonder songster my high speech deride,
Or call a usurpation of his staves,
I do refrain form poet's lofty place,
I speak but as a gentleman's envoy,
A knight's forerunner now without a knight,
Just as in camps, or armaments, or siege
The heralds trumpet to a crimson sky,
And vaunt their masters' fame in "poesy".

Alas that to base rhyme I now resort!
Forgive me minstrel-'twould disgrace a court.
Now, butcher, miner, all ye peasants stout
What think ye of the murderer about?

[Nogrod]

Now please my friends and fellows, and our common enemies! Even though it seems a time of despair, let's speak some sense.

I can then deconstruct it for you later... :)

But what to do? As a friend of peace, I'll suggest some talking before getting over each others throaths with willy-nilly, out of hunch suspicions.

And just to stress my urge on frank exhange of ideas, I would suggest, that if there is even one among us today, that just hides in the shadows and does not show him/herself to be helpful in getting us out of this misery, we should point our suspicions there.

[Valier]

Vhat Shall ve do? I don't vant to sleep out of doors again! Vhat vith a madman on ze loose! Our poor Sleepy! E vas one ov my favorite clients. Vhy! Vhy!

Vhat es all thes about? Vhy vould anyone do zhis to us? Games? Vhat games? I do not vant to play any game, but my game. Vith my rules! *Pouts*

And Vhat? I say Vhat? are all thoze veapons for? I need no veapon but my own vhip! (as she artfully flicks her vhip..I mean whip)

Zhis iz unaczeptable! Ve need to do someving!

[Encaitare]

Sleepy was the first person who didn't laugh at me for my studies of pebbles, and the average dimensions of buckets, and the usefulness of detached lizards' tails. His support inspired me to write my dissertation on whether birds get hangnails. And best of all, knowing him brought me lovely friends. It saddens me to think that we most likely are doomed to turn against each other like the others did when he left.

[littlemanpoet]

Lest yonder songster my high speech deride...

Never would I deride your speech, oh herald.
Rather I would hear from those who have not spoken yet.

if there is even one among us today, that just hides in the shadows and does not show him/herself to be helpful in getting us out of this misery, we should point our suspicions there.

A reasonable point of suspicion no doubt, but let us not with a single thread weave the pattern of our decision this day. Other just as useful evidences may supply themselves before long.

So far I find nothing of any merit on which to decide a thing or comment .... that is, in terms of werewolves and murderers.

[Anguirel]

I must confess that all this company
Did me surprise: all consorts of the late
And much missed Ranger. Yet he sought out such
As Valier, ill-famed whirler of whips
As Jenny Hallu-a mere flagellant
And prophet of destruction-Enca too
Unhealthily absorbed in stolid stones.
Yet of these oddments heroes may be made,
To rise against the poignarders and fiends
Who have purposed this baleful felonie.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by nogrog
if there is even one among us today, that just hides in the shadows and does not show him/herself to be helpful in getting us out of this misery, we should point our suspicions there.

A reasonable point of suspicion no doubt, but let us not with a single thread weave the pattern of our decision this day. Other just as useful evidences may supply themselves before long.

So far I find nothing of any merit on which to decide a thing or comment .... that is, in terms of werewolves and murderers.

The thing I'm afraid, are the random deeds,
which something or -one might exploit,
by hiding this very first day,
and let us happily each other devour.

But having this mentality,
of suspecting silence,
we might drive out the devil,
to show even a part of himself,
or her, who knows?

[Holbytlass]

This ruins my platform for a Utopian Society.
Come! Let all speak and save those who have piety!

On careful analysis of the letter(s), I for one do not recognize the style of writng.
At this point, I'm answering the summons of roll call. Nothing at this time that warrants suspicion. Which is the norm for things at the beginning.

[Anguirel]

Oh, for the sake of honour, you varlets, stop all this versifying. I too shall now leave it to the minstrel. Really, poetry isn't made to spread like a plague, but if it does it can be just as deadly.

Alas, we seem to have few present of proper military standing-I suspect the "Duchess" has a somewhat dubious claim to nobility-where is her coat of arms, I say?

In the absence of any noble paladins or even anyone much who can wield a blade, I propose to take charge, and I implore that we stop all this cod-rhyme, wrenched from the professionals, and get some talk going. Which was my purpose to start with.

[Nogrod]

Oh, for the sake of honour, you varlets, stop all this versifying. I too shall now leave it to the minstrel. Really, poetry isn't made to spread like a plague, but if it does it can be just as deadly.


I must say that I agree with this one. I do tried to adjust myself with the mood of the discussion in my last post (happily as a deconstructionist, I didn't have to do it in rhyme). With English not as a first language, it's quite hard to come with believable stuff prima vista.

So, what say you about the idea of pressuring the silent ones? Not from the joy of pressuring good people, but to make our traitors on the move and acting! As we probably won't have anything to base a real suspicion when the night falls, with all propabilities, we will be ending some miserable innnocent's days anyhow. So let us even try to wrench out something to hunt those evil souls in the days to follow?

EDIT: I'm not trying deliberately to haste things for any other reason as for the fact that I'll have to go to sleep in a minute, and may join you only towards the evening of the gameday - and would like to have offered something to the discussion before I go.

[Anguirel]

I sometimes prefer silence to artificial noise.

And on that cryptic note, I shall leave you for a while to gather my energies...

[Encaitare]

Some degree of pressure on quiet players is a good thing -- a nudge like "I'd like to hear more from so-and-so" is likely to do the trick. And it's better if everyone talks, because then at least there is something substantial to back up your opinions of people.

However... while there is often one wolf who is one of "the quiet ones," we shouldn't base guilt solely on how much one talks. There are sometimes other reasons for being quiet -- RL conflicts, or as the game gets more heated, it takes a long time to actually read and process everyone else's posts!

[Nogrod]

I do agree with both Anguirel and Encaitare in their basic points.

It just feels to me too easy for one or two of the real villains to escape the first day, and thence kind of assure the already great probability rate to them - and what's the worst, not leaving a track to follow...

So, I'm not talking about this "pressure over the silent" as a whole-game tactics, but just as a way to make this wretched first day up and going - and maybe giving the villagers some tracks to follow the oncoming days (or with the best of luck, even this first day as the baddies would have to open their mouths).

If you think, that everyone could just stay silent if they wish, and be then ready to admit the benefit of doubt to anyone acting like that, then it's your opinion. Without better clues, I'll vote for the "silents". With some clues believable enough, I'll stick to them, of course. But how to get clues from villains who can trust their first day with two innocents dying just by staying silent?

[JennyHallu]

Our dear beloved Ranger! Sleepy, you will be missed! And now, to find ourselves trapped, with a murderor and a traitor in our midst?

I fear my profession has perhaps been vindicated.

But I fear that nothing will be gained by pointing fingers at the quiet among us. All have different ways of dealing with grief...

We must be careful. It would be far too easy to point fingers at one who is too loud, or too quiet. What is more telling is what is or isn't said.

Therefore I must join my fellow herald (albeit of far different dooms) in urging the company gather together and work to understand the threat among us. Perhaps the traitor will slip.

EDIT: xposted with Nogrod.

[Nogrod]

Therefore I must join my fellow herald (albeit of far different dooms) in urging the company gather together and work to understand the threat among us. Perhaps the traitor will slip.


Well, probably not, if we say out aloud, that we will not lynch anyone holding his/her tongue silent today! ;)

[Holbytlass]

It seems that the most vocal tend to gain highest suspicion and then are lynched, innocent or not, leaving the village with least talkative and least likely to have left patterns. There is a town message board (Tol-in-Gauroth Jr thread) for extenuating circumstances. Of course, votes should be spread out but it would be nice for the quieter ones to feel the heat sooner than later.

Alert the scrollers-my contraversial statement

[Holbytlass]

Oh, for the sake of honour, you varlets, stop all this versifying. I too shall now leave it to the minstrel. Really, poetry isn't made to spread like a plague, but if it does it can be just as deadly.
At least mine was only two lines!! :p :D

[Nogrod]

It seems that the most vocal tend to gain highest suspicion and then are lynched, innocent or not, leaving the village with least talkative and least likely to have left patterns...... Of course, votes should be spread out but it would be nice for the quieter ones to feel the heat sooner than later.


Exactly to the point! (Well we post-structuralists tend to be such loudmouths anyhow, and more often than not, get ourselves nailed to the first tree there is.)

I do hope, than when I return, I won't be the one with most posts sent...

[littlemanpoet]

Perhaps five or six vote getters would be sufficient to spread out the vote enough to catch out a furry fanged one. Seems like this was a reasonable suggestion in a folkloric story some time back hence.

[Gil-Galad]

tis a shame... all this woe that has befallen our fair village... i shall ring the death-bell at once

[Valesse]

Whew... Whats all of this, now?

My expert opinion really doesn't go very far on the subject of murders... I squeeze baby chickens for a living, you see... but how is it exactly that we can pick out a likely suspect just by how much he or she talks today? Everyone appears in agreement that one can either talk too much or too little and look suspicious, but that might just be their personality-like thing... or some such extra fancy lyrical vocabulary word. Not that I do not enjoy the poetry, just that some folks here are a little, well... simpler.

Now, that whole long rant was not meant to offend anyone. Its just near impossible to call a hen by its color... if you catch my meaning-- oh! Of course you don't. I mean to judge a book by its cover.

[THE Ka]

Dear, dear, Holy Freud and Pavlov above! Our much admired Sleepy has left our collective conciousness on this plane of existence!

A post-tramatic event we indeed have now! But, even though our psyche's are now in whirlwind of confusion, and soon as likely will go to blaming to justify the long forgotten happiness we wish to have, alas, let us not be too hasty and call ourselves Hamlets and Ophelias!

Reason and a good talk are needed here, and maybe even some bells - but the fact of the collectively agreed upon matter is, to look at this whole event and bring about in our concious state some agreed upon facts that we may have as to what caused this horribly depressing event to us all.

Let us discuss this out in a manner as to decide what can be the negative factors to Sleepy's death, and to our regression in finding justice to this matter.

[Roa_Aoife]

(Sorry 'bout the delay, RL kept me busy.) Well, I guess we're trapped with a psychokiller. Anyone have an attic I can hide in?

In all seriousness, there's likely to be nothing real to actually find out our attacker today alone. I imagine most guesses will simply have to be random. I agree with LMP, though. Spreading the vote, though not too thin, will definitely help sound things out. Now, the in-character things are all well and good, but we need sustance with it, if you can. If not, forego the character.

[Naria]

Really now, all this talk about 'taking a closer look' at the quiet ones....and this early in the first DAY...pish-aww!

I think the first DAY is pretty much a wait and see kind of thing--wait and see what everyone has posted and go from there closer to vote time. However, I really do wish right about now that I had my trusty meat cleaver with me....make me feel a little more protected against those of you who are evil. :eek:

[littlemanpoet]

It has fallen to me your minstrel, apparently, to open up the true debate.
I offer no plans, no brilliant schemes.
Instead, simply this: we have yet to hear from Thinlomien & Witch Queen. And to stir the pot just a wee bit, I choose now to adopt a certain method that comes down the paths of folklore over the many years.

There are three Wolves amongst us, and I know who they are:

Thinlomien
Witch Queen
Valesse

Please be so kind as to defend yourselves. Thank you.

[Roa_Aoife]

There are three Wolves amongst us, and I know who they are:

Thinlomien
Witch Queen
Valesse

Please be so kind as to defend yourselves. Thank you.

I'm sorry, what?

[Valesse]

And to stir the pot just a wee bit, I choose now to adopt a certain method that comes down the paths of folklore over the many years.

Would that method be selecting a random villager and making them frantically sweat out exactly what they might have said that "tipped you off", good littleman minstrel? :p

[littlemanpoet]

I'm sorry, what?Surely you do not require me to repeat myself?

Would that method be selecting a random villager and making them frantically sweat out exactly what they might have said that "tipped you off", good littleman minstrel?Quite. Most obliged.

EDIT: I must to bed. I will have spotty ability to post from here on out toDay, and am somewhat disappointed at the hesitant posting so far (by many). My vote will come after a scurrying scan some time before noon tomorrow RL; it's too early toDay to vote now.

[Valier]

Are ve throwing accuzationz out alveady?





There are three Wolves amongst us, and I know who they are:

Thinlomien
Witch Queen
Valesse



I vould like to hear vhy you KNOW zhey are ze enemies? I may be cruel but I do not vink ve should pick on va quviet vones yet. Some people handle tings diffently vhan udders.
But zince we must accuze zomeone I underzand your thoughtz, but ow do you KNOW?

I zink today we chould look at ooh is likely to betray uz
ooh among us as predicted dis all along Jenny! dats who!
And you Roa_ Aoife I am zo much prettyier zan you and your "azzets" you muzzt be jealouz!
But Thinlomien your birdzz ave alvays gave me de ebbey jeebyz

Ve must hurry! I vant to go ome to my manor! I ave not brushed my air in forever!

(*Thought I would spread out the choices a bit...I know they're random, but hey.*):D

[Nogrod]

Really now, all this talk about 'taking a closer look' at the quiet ones....and this early in the first DAY...pish-aww!

I think the first DAY is pretty much a wait and see kind of thing--wait and see what everyone has posted and go from there closer to vote time.

I meant not to take a closer look at the quiet ones this early! Just hoped us to voice our intention to do it when this first evening falls: as to lay some pressure on them to actually contribute something during the day. If the quiet one is a wulf, and knows to be safe by staying quiet, we most probably kill an innocent player posting much, and so being a good contributor to the game at later stages, and even enjoyable to play with: be s/he ordo, gifted or even a wulf!

Obviously our chances of killing an innocent are great in any case, but why to make the situation even worse? Or why to ruin our gaming-satisfaction by leaving all-non-contributors to stay alive and kill the productive & entertaining posters?

All these are thoughts on the tactics of the first day! As soon as we have something more solid on hand, we should go for it then and kill the maniac-cursed-villain, even if s/he be the most entertaining poster around!

PS. By quieteness I also mean posting nonsense...

[Anguirel]

The problem is, Nogrod me ole deconstructionist, that not all who like to avoid attention are villains.

And not all who soak up attention through their every pore and embrace it like a long-lost love are innocents.

We can't be quite so formulaic.

The minstrel spoke some sense before he scarpered; of his three, I particularly suspect (on instinct, mind) Witch_Queen and Valesse. Largely because I know that...well, certainly Valesse is capable of expressing herself subtly and ought to have a good deal more to say. I expect she'll lean back on the old Day One excuse.

[Anguirel]

In this town in particular, moaning about Day Ones is the act of a piteous coward, poltroon and fool. Remember the words of our recently lost friend!


Well the first two will definately affect the game in some way but after that it all depends on how the game plays out. I won't be dropping off any hints but if you look closely enough you may just find something you could use to your advantage.


So in other words...any of us with more than a little sense should be spending time frantically analysing and over-analysing the introduction to our peril. Evidence could be right in front of our noses...

[THE Ka]

I'm afraid that I must be off to bed soon, and that I must get up early tomorrow and won't be near a computer for the deadline, I think I must give my vote now, as to prevent anymore knives at throats. I know this is a classic cliche way of landing in the suspicion bin, but it is better than not voting at all and ending in it anyways...
Simply, I will not be able to vote by the deadline if I do not vote now. So, bear with me on the account that I have a busy early day schedule tomorrow, and no computer in sight to service me.

By the logical justification of non-writing and voting, there are these players as follows subject to suspicion based upon this fact:

Thinlomien
Witch Queen

That is all I can say upon the matter, because it is the first day, and we have no evidence to use by than that.

Valesse has already written, and thus falls out of my suspicion. So has JennyHallu, and Roe_Aoife. It is the first day, and they have remained to the promise of the rules, and presented themselves as such. So have all of us who have, unless we start to bring ourselves to the cleaners... Hopefully, we won't become that desperate...

Yes, since in first day accordance it is logical to spread the votes due to no evidence that can be evoked is a good plan, but I am afraid we've ran against it a bit too much. To chase all of the foxes out of the holes is logical in finding the needed culprit, it is not wise to only chase a few out and then start to interrogate them as your true suspects snicker off and away. To be random seems to work, but don't run away with your characterization to the point where it's impossible to guess what is happening.

... Aye, first day madness. If only there was enough evidence to stand upon but there never is, except a few fun flings to the wind at suspicions. Which are nothing less than wicked fun with each other's minds...

Al right then, my vote might as well come. I wish I could stay up and read more, but i'm tired and have to go sleep now or I am going to be late, thus ruining my day tomorrow... Sorry, it's a control thing in my mornings, I must have them lock, stock and barrel proof.


My only suspisions, because I am not much of a personality judge, and I only trust evidence in rules when needed are Thinlomien and Witch Queen.
I know, hate me tomorrow, but they have not posted yet, so in accordance with the rules, I have natural suspicion. Gah! I detest first days... Well, I shall leave the rest up to chance by the flip of a coin.

Thinlo = heads

WQ = sails
Here's the coin if you want evidence (http://www.georgemanzcoins.com/images/CD10cents1997.jpg), though that's all I can give to how it looks like and that it is all that I have on hand.

Heads, well, that's all I can say for now. Hopefully this first day madness wears off and we get some real evidence.

I need some more reason and logic than this, or I shall go insane!... Sorry for the coin business.

++Thinlomien

Goodnight everyone, I will be back at 3 in the afternoon ( PST time...), hopefully before too much development in our game.


Sincerely,

Ka

[littlemanpoet]

Are ve throwing accuzationz out alveady?'Twas high time somebody tested the waters.

I vould like to hear vhy you KNOW zhey are ze enemies'Twas merely a figure of speech. How could I 'know'? I am, for lack of a better word, 'formally suspecting', lacking any real evidence.

[Thinlómien]

It seems that you shouldn't sleep,
or neither should a schoolday you busy keep
- otherwise you'll be you'll be lynched by your own kind
a bit unfair I do that find.

Anyway, I'm here now.

Nogrod, I have a question. You say:PS. By quieteness I also mean posting nonsense.... Maybe you'd care to explain what is non-nonsense-speaking on the first day. Because the first day usually is just nonsense and wild guesses.

[JennyHallu]

Ka...I'm afraid I don't agree with your suspicions. Six hours away from the deadline, we still need to give time to those who are silent. With all but one of us now checking in, it is vastly more likely that all three wolves are already busily trying to subvert us. And on the first day, really our posts or no-posts give us almost nothing to go on. I must say, at this point I would be far more likely to suspect Anguirel for obscuring early thoughts in verse, or Valier for brandishing a "vhip" and generally relishing the prospect of pain.

But for this fact: Sleepy did tell us that there were hints in his part of the story. Anguirel makes an excellent point. SO...

I'm going to get busy and see if I can find any clues. I'd suggest you all do the same.

[Encaitare]

Hello all, just checking in. I'm going to review all this later in the afternoon and see if anything at all can be gleaned from what's been posted. My vote will most likely be a random one, though.

[Thinlómien]

Great to see some life in this now quiet village. Jenny, I didn't think of that before, but I think you make a good point. If there's any base to lay the suspicions on it's hiding behind roles Valier's v and Anguirel's poems. I check the thread if there are any more such people.

[Thinlómien]

Okay, all I could make out from Sleepy's posts were: Roa_Aoife
She sat there counting her money on a park bench by herself. They had called her stupid, they had laughed at her. She would show them who was better, it wouldn't be long now. His steps were quick and noiseless, she never saw him coming but once he stood there in front of her she just looked up in wonder, he smiled. Nobody had smiled at her when she was in one of those moods. "It shall be over soon." He said, his voice was soothing and Roa believed him, it would be over soon. A vengeful wolf here? Or is this just a tragedy?

"Rise and shine my dears. Its time for the games to begin." This leads again to Roa, who's a babysitter.

For clearing: I'm not accusing Roa, since I have no basis, just speculating.

My previous post on roles might be nonsense, because on the other hand they just might be people who want to make the village livelier.

[Thinlómien]

The minstrel spoke some sense before he scarpered; of his three, I particularly suspect (on instinct, mind) Witch_Queen and Valesse. Largely because I know that...well, certainly Valesse is capable of expressing herself subtly and ought to have a good deal more to say. I expect she'll lean back on the old Day One excuse. I'm glad that you don't suspect me, but I don't see a reason why would I be - or actually why was I before I posted anything - less suspicious than WQ. Is it just an instinct, as you say? But surely all instincts have some basis?

[Thinlómien]

Sorry for flooding this thread up but as there's no one else active and I'm rereading the thread and finding new things all the time. And I'm under the impression that editing posts (except because of mentioning cross-posting or correcting typos) is not preferable in a WW game.

Six hours away from the deadline, we still need to give time to those who are silent.
I second this! We live pretty much in different time zones. If for example the day's 8 first hours are the hours that someone's sleeping, I don't think it's unfair to accuse him/her for being silent at the beginning of the day. So on this basis I'm giving WQ some more time before accusing her of hiding. And if she doesn't appear even that doesn't mean she's a wolf. She might have problems in RL or then she's just not aware that the game has started. (I assure you, that can happen... :o)

[Thinlómien]

If there's any base to lay the suspicions on it's hiding behind roles Valier's v and Anguirel's poems. I question my own reasoning. Surely a herald at-arms is no poet? Or do we just have one lyrical soul around?

And Jenny, are you still around? Have you done your analysis? Or is anyone else here? 'Tis creepy when 'tis so quiet...

[Holbytlass]

I have governing appointments elsewhere and shan't be albe to return, I'm a firm believer in voting early then not at all.
This being first DAY and not much to go on I find Valier, JennyHallu and Naria seems especially concerned about 'quiets' being looked at-perhaps wanting to keep open a hiding place? They do make some valid points but it can be said for all styles of posting, as for me, I'd rather weed out those less likely to leave enough to analyze. However, all this is not much to go on but we need to start somewhere...

Really now, all this talk about 'taking a closer look' at the quiet ones....and this early in the first DAY...pish-aww!

I think the first DAY is pretty much a wait and see kind of thing--wait and see what everyone has posted and go from there closer to vote time.
So that you could slip under the radar?

++Naria

[Thinlómien]

I know I must seem like a psychopate or something, but please bear with me and my endless posting.

When there's no one else to argue with, I find myself arguing with myself.

Nogrod, I have a question. You say: .... Maybe you'd care to explain what is non-nonsense-speaking on the first day. Because the first day usually is just nonsense and wild guesses.
I begin to understand your point. Even the first day some posts are more useless than others.

I suspect more the nonsense-posters than silent ones. If now would be the voting time, I'd rather vote for Gil, who has this far posted just nonsense than WQ, who has just been absent.

EDIT: Crossposted with Holbytlass. So I'm not sextet-posting! Hooray!

[Thinlómien]

Glad to see someone here, even if she visits only to leave again.
I have governing appointments elsewhere and shan't be albe to return, I'm a firm believer in voting early then not at all. I agree with you. Voting not at all doesn't contribute anything to the game, expect suspicions against the non-voter.


This being first DAY and not much to go on I find Valier, JennyHallu and Naria seems especially concerned about 'quiets' being looked at-perhaps wanting to keep open a hiding place? They do make some valid points but it can be said for all styles of posting, as for me, I'd rather weed out those less likely to leave enough to analyze. However, all this is not much to go on but we need to start somewhere... I also find some slippiness in Naria and Valier, but I disagree about JennyHallu. Though she hasn't been over useful, I don't think she could be compared with Naria and Valier. But I'm saying again; there's still plenty of time.Time for all of the three to improve their posting. (And for us all - I can't say that I have contributed very much myself.)

[Thinlómien]

:rolleyes:

-----------------

I think the first DAY is pretty much a wait and see kind of thing--wait and see what everyone has posted and go from there closer to vote time. I agree, though some - it seems - don't. What else is there actually on Day 1?

P.S. It just came to my mind that if they are playing well they're the people no one has yet suspected. So all the same I could go around and accuse everybody and wouldn't probably get any wiser. Though, it's always interesting to see how people react to accusations...

P.P.S. The votes this far:
THE Ka - Thinlómien
Holbytlass - Naria

[Nogrod]

Nogrod, I have a question. You say:. Maybe you'd care to explain what is non-nonsense-speaking on the first day. Because the first day usually is just nonsense and wild guesses.

Touché! You seem to have an eye on rhetoric. I could teach you some post-structuralism to enhance your argument destroying abilities furthermore... :p

Maybe I should answer you this way. What I mean by nonsense-posting, is posting like:
"Hi everyone! Poor Sleepy!!!!! So sad you died! We should do something."
And that being the only contribution of the first day (or anyday, for that matter).

or like:
"Rock-baby-Rock, duubaduuba-diiba-daaba. Ranger wasn't a changer, WOW!!!! Real Danger! Check you out guys! If you are not gone with Sleepy... (wink-wink)"

Etc, etc...

So no-nonsense talk would be something, making a bit more out of it...

But really! Nice interpretation of Sleepy's text! Surely no-nonsense! Although it might be erring surely.

Without better ideas, I could stick to it... Sleepy really told us, there would be hints, and we deconstructionists love far-fetched ones! :cool:

EDIT: X-posted with Lommy X 3 :p

[Thinlómien]

It seems we have one more roleplayer in the village, and it's our Touché-man Nogrod. :rolleyes:

I'm glad to see someone online. :)

And I got your (Nogrod's) point on nonsense. The matter's solved. Yet, I wonder, is the "I suggest that we press on the silent ones" posts very much less nonsense. And the choir agreeing to that. I'm not blaming the strategy, I'm just wondering why nearly all agree with it.

[Eonwe]

Lommy, is that a new record on the 'Downs? ;)

We can't be quite so formulaic.

I can. I'm voting for the person three names below mine...which appears to be LMP :p

No, I quite agree with you. There is no formula for anything in Werewolf. Play it by ear is all you can do.

Of course, there are some vague catagouies, such as Quite Wolf, Voters In Pairs, etc, that you can be looking out for, but that is about it. I think the best stratagy is usually to wait for the Seer to announce some innocents, hopefully the Ranger can come out, with hopefully a known innocent, and perhaps the Hunter thrown in there somewhere. Of course, you need to be lynching people along the way, and you want to make as sound a judgemtn as you can, but lets face it, sometimes we're gonna be wrong.

Anyway, as nothing really stands out to me - can you believe it! - I will go ahead and vote

++LMP

like I said I would. No hard feelings or anything.

[Thinlómien]

But really! Nice interpretation of Sleepy's text! Surely no-nonsense! Although it might be erring surely.

Without better ideas, I could stick to it... Sleepy really told us, there would be hints, and we deconstructionists love far-fetched ones! :cool: How flattering.


EDIT: X-posted with Lommy X 3 :p x3? With all the three posts? Or does that mean only the latest one?

[Eonwe]

Most everything about Werewolf is nonscense, my dear Lommy. :D :p

[Nogrod]

Yet, I wonder, is the "I suggest that we press on the silent ones" posts very much less nonsense. And the choir agreeing to that. I'm not blaming the strategy, I'm just wondering why nearly all agree with it.

Maybe a little... :D (there is no smily for self-irony...)

But as you mentioned it. In the beginning most people seemed to be against it - or at least they were reserved with it. And I'm not so confident with my argumentation skills, that I would readily believe, that I have just convinced them all. So it could be worthwhile looking, whether there are any drastic changing of sides, or sudden silences after perceived "mood-changes" or certain critical posts etc.

Well they surely are shots in the air too, but still better than nothing?

[Thinlómien]

Glad to see you, Eonwe!

Most everything about Werewolf is nonscense, my dear Lommy. :D :p And the first day is the most nonsense!

(And this my post is probably even more nonsense. :rolleyes: )

EDIT: xposted with the Touché-man

[Thinlómien]

Well they surely are shots in the air too, but still better than nothing? Sure. As I said they are better. But I was wondering how much better.

[Eonwe]

Take what you can get, I guess...

[Thinlómien]

First - littlemanpoet Speak, each one of us, for in words the Were
may be found then fettered, and done to death
if luck be our guide. Let us begin.
Second - Nogrod And just to stress my urge on frank exhange of ideas, I would suggest, that if there is even one among us today, that just hides in the shadows and does not show him/herself to be helpful in getting us out of this misery, we should point our suspicions there.
Then lmp is reserved towards this theory of himself's and Nogrod's: A reasonable point of suspicion no doubt, but let us not with a single thread weave the pattern of our decision this day. Other just as useful evidences may supply themselves before long.
Anguirel disagrees: I sometimes prefer silence to artificial noise.
Then Enca agrees and disagrees all in one post: Some degree of pressure on quiet players is a good thing -- a nudge like "I'd like to hear more from so-and-so" is likely to do the trick. And it's better if everyone talks, because then at least there is something substantial to back up your opinions of people.
However... while there is often one wolf who is one of "the quiet ones," we shouldn't base guilt solely on how much one talks. There are sometimes other reasons for being quiet -- RL conflicts, or as the game gets more heated, it takes a long time to actually read and process everyone else's posts!
Holby kind of agrees: It seems that the most vocal tend to gain highest suspicion and then are lynched, innocent or not, leaving the village with least talkative and least likely to have left patterns. There is a town message board (Tol-in-Gauroth Jr thread) for extenuating circumstances. Of course, votes should be spread out but it would be nice for the quieter ones to feel the heat sooner than later.
Naria disagrees Really now, all this talk about 'taking a closer look' at the quiet ones....and this early in the first DAY...pish-aww!
So actually both I and Nogrod were wrong. There was no accepting choir, but it didn't start with suspicions either. Now I'm trying to find a pattern hid in this discussion...

EDIT: x-posted with Eonwe

[Thinlómien]

Reading my previous post, I observe that Anguirel actually is going along the ongoing trend. A bit wolvish, if we assume that wolves don't want to get into the spotlight.

Enca isn't really saying anything, but I'm not blaming her for that. I do it all the time! Being unable to make sound opinions doesn't always lead to wolvishness.

[Roa_Aoife]

OKay, I've read through everyone's posts, and then I went back an analyzed the Opening. I think I've found something interesting.

THE Ka

She lay there on the grass staring upwards at the night sky. Today had in no way been a good day, in fact it seemed life had begun a steady journey downwards. She sighed, things weren't in her hands anymore or so it seemed. His steps were quick and noiseless, she never saw him coming but once he stood there in front of her she just looked up in wonder, he smiled. Nobody had smiled at her for the last few months, it seemed money did buy friends. "It shall be over soon." He said, his voice was soothing and Ka believed him, it would be over soon.

What wasn't in the hands of our dear psychologist? Perhaps the plan to murder us?

And then there was this:
Two months later Sleepy had again vanished, this time his friends decided to take immediate action. Intuition drove them into the abandoned town and sure enough they found Sleepy in the center of the town. He had been impaled on the cupid's arrow that had once provided water for the fountain, it now spurted blood, Sleepy's. Upon further examination it was discovered that his throat had been slashed and his head was just barely connected to his body, when it tilted back a bit a fountain of blood would gush out of his corpse.

Cupid's Arrow? I don't know how many of you know this, but Sleepy and THE Ka are a couple in RL. Was it a lover's crime of passion that killed our beloved friend?

[Thinlómien]

Interesting theory, Roa. It is as good as mine, maybe. :)

[Thinlómien]

Or actually better, I'd say. But it doesn't close out the possibility of you two being both wolves, though that's very unprobable, since you're directing the spotlight to her...

[Nogrod]

I've been reading Sleepy's characterization of us all. I found the following to be of some, at least half-reasonable interest:

Roa: being called stupid & laughed at, she would show them who was better!

Naria: seems to be a bit mad (not caring of anything real, just laughing alone)

Holbytlass: manages to fake herself with ease

EDIT: X-posting heavily

[Roa_Aoife]

Also, I'd like to point out that THE Ka's opening has nothing to do with her occupation, unlike all the others. And that's exactly the type of subtlety Sleepy would use.

EDIT:Won't be back for a few hours. Mid-terms and all.

[Thinlómien]

I somehow managed not to notice Eonwe's post #57 at all!!

Lommy, is that a new record on the 'Downs? ;) Five posts in a row, you mean? I wouldn't wonder if it was.

I can. I'm voting for the person three names below mine...which appears to be LMP :p What a great way of deciding! I dread what'd happen if we all were that flighty. There's probably as much chance to succeed by analysing posts and voting because of them as in voting a name three names below, but I'm certain that when doing the first mentioned, the game is much more interesting.

No, I quite agree with you. There is no formula for anything in Werewolf. Play it by ear is all you can do. Usually, but not always.

I think the best stratagy is usually to wait for the Seer to announce some innocents, hopefully the Ranger can come out, with hopefully a known innocent, and perhaps the Hunter thrown in there somewhere. And you suggest that we all just accuse each other totally randomly before the seer comes out?!? And all the gifteds should come out so that they'd be killed? A very fine theory, Eonwe.

but lets face it, sometimes we're gonna be wrong. But we can try not to be! I don't think the best way of avoiding a mistake is voting randomly.

And sorry if I sound harsh, that was not my meaning. This is just friendly criticism. :)

EDIT: x-posted with the Touché-man and Roa.

[Thinlómien]

(All quotes in my previous post were from Eonwe's post #57)

Also, I'd like to point out that THE Ka's opening has nothing to do with her occupation, unlike all the others. And that's exactly the type of subtlety Sleepy would use.
Quite interesting this is. But have you got any basis on your argument why would Sleepy use just that kind of subtlety?

[Thinlómien]

Her hair was red, stained by blood,
Her smile was terror, those teeth were fangs,
She carried us all away in the horror of the flood,
And on day by day another one of us hangs.
I can't help wondering how is this "she"? Is she one of the werewolves? Or some off-game character?

And I noticed one more interesting thing in Naria's description: Her small store was rarely visited by anyone, it reeked of the smell of death but that did not bother her, she just laughed as she did her job. Hmm... But maybe I can't make anything out of that either. Butchers tend to be used to the smell.

[Nogrod]

We seem to have been doing the same thing with Lommy.

I also wondered about that SHE of the first post. She had red hair though - and even though THE Ka's avatar isn't showing red hair, it has that feeling in it... :eek:

Thin's point about Naria is worth recalling too. You could also see, that Sleepy had next to the Cupid's arrow, mentioned to have his throat slahed so that his head was almost off. The butcher would have the tools and art to do it...

[littlemanpoet]

I'm very short of time and must vote, because I get done "rehearsing" after voting closes.

Observations:

Thinlomiel:
1. has voiced suspicion of Anguirel based on him following an ongoing trend. I haven't time to verify that assertion. this in post #63
2. appears helpful in post #62 with all those quotes seemingly trying to build up some kind of case the nature of which frankly escapes me (prob. my fault for lack of time)
3. made no defense (that I could find) in answer to my suspicions.

Eonwe:
1. his vote for me in #57, especially giving no reason other than randomness, naturally attracts my suspicious attention.
2. lots of "gifted" talk in #57; also a point of suspicion.

Naria: her "wait and see" attitude as described in #32 seemed a bit opportunistic and therefore perhaps wolfish to me; I am vindicated in this thinking by Holbytlass in her vote.

The Ka:
1. Votes for Thinlomiel after others have voiced some suspicion in that direction, thereby following a trend.
2. She protests way too much in defense of every single possible contingency of which she finds herself able to be accused; that seems rather guilty behavior to me.
3. I notice that others have found other areas of suspicion that I have not yet had time to research.

Witch Queen has not yet posted as far as I can tell.

Valesse seems to protest just a wee bit too much in #29.

The grounds listed above do not amount to much, granted. Nevertheless, it seems that there is more to lay at the feet of The KA than any other.

++ The KA

[Thinlómien]

I also wondered about that SHE of the first post. She had red hair though - and even though THE Ka's avatar isn't showing red hair, it has that feeling in it... :eek: Regardless of how serious or not-serious you are, I think you're going too far. I think her hair was red only because of the blood...? And though THE Ka's avvie looks like a maniac, the person in it doesn't have blood-stained hair.

EDIT: x-posted with LMP

[Nogrod]

Regardless of how serious or not-serious you are, I think you're going too far. I think her hair was red only because of the blood...? And though THE Ka's avvie looks like a maniac, the person in it doesn't have blood-stained hair.


Well, the EEK!, should tell you...

But you seem very intent in defending THE Ka from Roa's accusations? I admit myself believing, at least for now, that Sleepy's "hint" for Roa is a better case than Roa's against THE KA, but still...

[Thinlómien]

2. appears helpful in post #62 with all those quotes seemingly trying to build up some kind of case the nature of which frankly escapes me (prob. my fault for lack of time) Probably the fault is that there really is no point in the post. :) First I tried to prove Nogrod he was wrong when he said that the "lynch the quiet ones"-theory didn't get support at the beginning, but I actually ended up with pointing out that and that I was wrong when I said a choir of voices agreed with the suggestion.

3. made no defense (that I could find) in answer to my suspicions.You were accusing me because of my absence, and to that I can only say: It seems that you shouldn't sleep,
or neither should a schoolday you busy keep
- otherwise you'll be you'll be lynched by your own kind
a bit unfair I do that find. And that's what I said in post #43. You just didn't notice it. If you need me to explain the words "sleep" and "schoolday" for you, just ask. :p

[Thinlómien]

But you seem very intent in defending THE Ka from Roa's accusations? I admit myself believing, at least for now, that Sleepy's "hint" for Roa is a better case than Roa's against THE KA, but still... Haven't you been reading my posts,
Touché-man? I'm not defending Ka, I'm actually accusing her. I just want to keep all doors open. Originally posted by me on THE Ka-theory:
Accusing:
Interesting theory, Roa. It is as good as mine, maybe. :)
Or actually better, I'd say.
Defending:
Quite interesting this is. But have you got any basis on your argument why would Sleepy use just that kind of subtlety?
Regardless of how serious or not-serious you are, I think you're going too far. I think her hair was red only because of the blood...? And though THE Ka's avvie looks like a maniac, the person in it doesn't have blood-stained hair.
I'm not strongly accusing her but neither defending her. And I realise that you can't see my thoughts behind my posts. Maybe I should have made it clearer, but I find Roa's theory quite solid, and it's probably the best theory here yet. THE Ka is at the top of my suspicions list, but she's no clear number one.

[Nogrod]

I'll have to leave for the choir rehersals, and have to vote.

I'll briefly summarize, what I have thus far (I'll leave those morning's "random accusations" to their own worth = don't have time to go over them any more).

Gil-Galad: one "nonsense"-post, nothing else

WQ: nothing at all

Hints by Sleepy:

Roa: seeks revenge

Naria: the loose madman-butcher? + Sleepy's throat cut

Holbytlass: master faker

Accusation of Roa:
THE Ka: Cupid's arrow + RL romance, different character post by Sleepy

So as I have been saying, I will go for the quiet or nonsense posters, if we don't have any better ideas. Now I do think we have better one's, thanks to someone remembering Sleepy saying that he would give us hints of some sort.

So. I will stick to his hints. And as I have to vote this early, I don't want to make the difference now by voting Naria - she being already voted by Holbytlass (sic!).

So there remains Roa to vote.

++ Roa_Aoife

I have a weird feeling, I have done something like this in some earlier life of mine... :confused:

PS. Thinlómien: I admit you being right in that point about your not taking sides between Roa / THE Ka -thing. I was negligent over some of your posts... Sorry.

[Nogrod]

And this one still, before I go...

And as I have to vote this early, I don't want to make the difference now by voting Naria - she being already voted by Holbytlass (sic!).

So of the three I find hinted at in Sleepy's message, one has voted for the most suspicious one. And the third has made a theory of some kind. With this little information I go with having the tally even. You others hopefully are better informed, and can hunt us one wulf, when the evening draws to a close...

[Thinlómien]

PS. Thinlómien: I admit you being right in that point about your not taking sides between Roa / THE Ka -thing. I was negligent over some of your posts... Sorry. You're forgiven. :)

And LMP - I forgot to mention earlier, but - my name is Thinlómien not Thinlomiel. Just to inform you.

I would like to hear more from especially Gil-Galad, Valesse and Valier. They haven't practically said anything.

EDIT: xposted with Nogrod

[Roa_Aoife]

Quite interesting this is. But have you got any basis on your argument why would Sleepy use just that kind of subtlety?

Because that's the way he is. It's just his style. Very clever and sneaky, he is.

Now, I hate to follow a trend, but LMP beat me to my vote. And while I don't like making a difference in a lynching, it stands that if someone does not get two votes, Thin will be the lynchee, as we aren't double lynching. I may not agree with Thin's accusations of me, but she's adding valuable discussion, and has kept the village from being silent. That's too valuable to throw away today.

And so

++THE Ka

EDIT: Cross posted with the last three posts.

[Thinlómien]

Because that's the way he is. It's just his style. Very clever and sneaky, he is. Well that can be agreed.

I will vote nearer the closing time (=when I have to go), but now I say I'll probably bandwagon for THE Ka.

[Nogrod]

I may not agree with Thin's accusations of me, but she's adding valuable discussion, and has kept the village from being silent. That's too valuable to throw away today.


And apparently you are turning the knife already in my belly as I voted for you, one of our best discussioners today... Augh! :(

[Valier]

Vell I am ere now! I see zhat udders vould accuze me becauze ob my lovely accent! I atture you I am not evil! Vell a bit ....but not VHAT evil!

I ave looked over Sleepy's posting..... I do not zhink he would ave left uz vith too much on zee first day. But tomorrow iz a different ztory! My zuzpitions are ztill random. I am not able to come up vith anything vith zubstance today. I muzt vote zoon, before I go to find me a air brush.:p

[Thinlómien]

Vell I am ere now! I see zhat udders vould accuze me becauze ob my lovely accent! I atture you I am not evil! Vell a bit ....but not VHAT evil!

I ave looked over Sleepy's posting..... I do not zhink he would ave left uz vith too much on zee first day. But tomorrow iz a different ztory! My zuzpitions are ztill random. I am not able to come up vith anything vith zubstance today. I muzt vote zoon, before I go to find me a air brush.:p
No one accuses you for your lovely accent, Duchess Valier; you are accused because you use your accent as a cover, milady!

[Thinlómien]

And apparently you are turning the knife already in my belly as I voted for you, one of our best discussioners today... Augh! :(
You were going to a choir practice? ;) You seem to be very good at leaving...

[Valier]

No one accuses you for your lovely accent, Duchess Valier; you are accused because you use your accent as a cover, milady!

I ez no cover! I svear it! I alvays talk like dis...It iz more deztinguizhed! I am feeling de air on my delicate neck ztand up. I diztruzt Nogrod and all is..... Accuzations! Ever ear of ooh smealt it dealt it? I lean towardz our muzition....He may be iding behind Is wordz.

I do not vish to lynch our dear birdy maker yet, zhe iz a good help with ze people.

Edit: And Nogrod vhat my I azk iz a wulf? I ave eared of no zuch thing! Only a madman and ze traitorz.;)

[Thinlómien]

I ez no cover! I svear it! I alvays talk like dis...It iz more deztinguizhed! I am feeling de air on my delicate neck ztand up. I diztruzt Nogrod and all is..... Accuzations! Ever ear of ooh smealt it dealt it? I lean towardz our muzition....He may be iding behind Is wordz.

I do not vish to lynch our dear birdy maker yet, zhe iz a good help with ze people.
You may always talk like that, but I think you assume that if you speak in a strange (or "sophisticated" as you say) way, it takes the attention from your posts and you don't have to say anything meaningful. That is not the case.

Interesting, how the alliances begin to form...

Have you any special reason to distrust Nogrod or to trust THE Ka?

[Thinlómien]

Edit: And Nogrod vhat my I azk iz a wulf? I ave eared of no zuch thing! Only a madman and ze traitorz. Or little post-structuralist seems to be afraid of wild-dogs and connecting them with everything... ;)

[Encaitare]

Please note: I'm writing this as I'm reading and re-reading the thread, so please forgive a little stream-of-consciousness.

Some degree of pressure on quiet players is a good thing -- a nudge like "I'd like to hear more from so-and-so" is likely to do the trick. And it's better if everyone talks, because then at least there is something substantial to back up your opinions of people.

However... while there is often one wolf who is one of "the quiet ones," we shouldn't base guilt solely on how much one talks. There are sometimes other reasons for being quiet -- RL conflicts, or as the game gets more heated, it takes a long time to actually read and process everyone else's posts!

Enca isn't really saying anything, but I'm not blaming her for that. I do it all the time! Being unable to make sound opinions doesn't always lead to wolvishness.

What's your definition of "sound," 'Lommy? I'm just leaving all options open. RL gets in the way of games sometimes, and it's frustrating to be suspected only because you couldn't get to a computer! I would say that it is a better strategy to keep an eye out for people who talk but whose posts really don't have much content. And now for my thoughts after reviewing the thread...

The ideas about Sleepy hiding hints in his opening posts are interesting (and I admire your careful reading and theorizing!), but I don't think we can base a lynching on them. While hidden clues would certainly be very helpful, the moderator is supposed to be impartial and generally anything s/he writes is not meant to give hints towards anyone's role. (Have there been precedents of this kind of hinting from the mods in other games? From the games I've played in, there have not been, and in some cases the mod even gave a disclaimer that none of his/her posts contained clues. Maybe if we could get a little disclaimer or something from Sleepy on this to tell us whether his posts are valid clues or not?)

Right now the votes are as such:

1. THE Ka voted for Thinlomien
2. Holbytlass voted for Naria
3. Eonwe voted for LMP
4. LMP voted for THE Ka
5. Nogrod voted for Roa_Aoife
6. Roa_Aoife voted for THE Ka

So the totals are:

Thinlomien: 1
Naria: 1
LMP: 1
THE Ka: 2
Roa_Aoife: 1

The kill could still go any way right now, since there are so many people left to vote. Assuming that Day 1 will end 24 hours after Sleepy's post #4 told us to begin, this will be the last time I can get online toDay. I am therefore forced to vote now.

I agree with LMP regarding THE Ka here:

2. She protests way too much in defense of every single possible contingency of which she finds herself able to be accused; that seems rather guilty behavior to me.

From experience I've learned that sometimes too vocal a self-defense can be telling. I therefore will vote for Ka, since most other posts are either intelligently analytical, or totally devoid of substance. If she is lynched, perhaps we'll find out if any of these theories about hidden clues are valid!

++ THE Ka

[Valier]

Or little post-structuralist seems to be afraid of wild-dogs and connecting them with everything


I ave notized zhiz az vell! I alvays zhink a traitor vould ide in ze open. Try to svay uz all zheir way.
I do not zay I truzt The Ka
I truzt novone!
But a gut feelingz iz forming in my petite belly, I muzt zhink quick! I have to go zoon.

[Valier]

While hidden clues would certainly be very helpful, the moderator is supposed to be impartial and generally anything s/he writes is not meant to give hints towards anyone's role. (Have there been precedents of this kind of hinting from the mods in other games? From the games I've played in, there have not been, and in some cases the mod even gave a disclaimer that none of his/her posts contained clues. Maybe if we could get a little disclaimer or something from Sleepy on this to tell us whether his posts are valid clues or not?)



Sleepy did say to read Is posts carefully! But I do not zhink E would put in too much today.

[Thinlómien]

What's your definition of "sound," 'Lommy? I'm just leaving all options open. RL gets in the way of games sometimes, and it's frustrating to be suspected only because you couldn't get to a computer! I would say that it is a better strategy to keep an eye out for people who talk but whose posts really don't have much content. And now for my thoughts after reviewing the thread... Sound = not leaving all options open, saying just one thing but nothing to oppose it
which leads to
sound - not necessarily a good thing

I'm not accusing you. I myself have also suggested to keep an eye on the nonsense-talkers. I think your post was rather well done, you brought up more than one side of the matter. I keep doing that too, and I know from experience that that may (accidentally) lead to actually not saying anything.

If you have RL problems, that's okay. I don't think anyone has accused you very much because of your silence. Everybody has RL things to do, and some have more than some other people and there are more things on some days than on others. It's just a fact.

EDIT: xposted with the two Valier's posts before this

[Thinlómien]

But a gut feelingz iz forming in my petite belly, I muzt zhink quick! I have to go zoon. So you just have a gut-feeling. *sigh*
I don't blame you for that, still, because there's not much to go on.

Anyway, I must leave now, so I'll vote.

++THE Ka
I'm very aware that I'm bandwagoning, but as I think she's the most suspicious peson here, and I don't think I shouldn't vote for her only because it's bandwagoning.

[JennyHallu]

Hello everyone, sorry for my silence this morning, I had to touch up the lettering on my best Armageddon sign (trans: my RL workplace lost all internet connection and we only just got it back.)

I am most impressed at how you have used the advice Anguirel and I gave to examine any possible hints Sleepy may have left us! Honestly my own dissection of the text didn't really get beyond a general feeling that the traitors are first, female, and second, that Sleepy's comment about Naria's shop 'smelling of death' seemed faintly suspicious.

But, not having been a member of this site for very long, I would never have caught any meaning behind "Cupid's Arrow", and that argument seems very very sound. While I'm not quite sure I catch where you are saying she defends herself to quickly, since she hasn't been around since any accusations were made in her direction, just read her post #30. This is how she's posted since the beginning...a lot of words to say nothing at all.

And since I have no way of knowing if my connection will last through the day,

++THE Ka

xposting with Thin

[Anguirel]

Weee-eeel. Thinlomien's excited today.

Madam, I excused your silence initially because I thought I recalled that you lived in a cold clime far to the north and east...now it's your chattering that makes me pause.

It's not implicitly damning; but just as you were granted hours of grace, you have to accept lulls in discussion. When you're arguing in an advanced state of schizophrenia, and you know it, your speech should perhaps be limited. For though many of your thoughts are helpful, your gabble implicitly criticises the poor souls who cannot help to keep up.

I see that-despite much insipid Day One moaning, particularly, interestingly, from THE Ka and Thinlomien-a case has been brought up from our departed Sleepy's description.

I have another point to raise; a matter of definition. It concerns Holbytlass.

Look at her occupation. She is a governess. This is not a political role and has nothing to do with ruling anything. A governess looks after small children.

Sleepy appears at first sight, though, to think it means something involving "being marginally fake" and making speeches. In other words, the introduction to Holby makes her out to be a governor.

I know that Holby knows what a governess is; in another life, she referred to her "small charges" and their crying, eating habits etc.

Yet she seems to buy the role Sleepy has-apparently accidentally-given her of governor. Vide post #51:

I have governing appointments elsewhere and shan't be albe to return

What are we supposed to make of this? Either Holby is teasing Sleepy's error, or she's another kind of governor in this town.

A wolvish one. Perhaps the "she" of the poem.

++HOLBYTLASS

[Valesse]

I'm not so keen on Nogrod, who first called for a system of murder. I don't claim to know exactly how to tell a bad egg when I see one, but I feel there is something just a little too drastic going on in that mind. This is death, and we should not be so quick to it, I'd say. It might not be the best explanation, but by the way things look toDay, it'll have no effect, so no harm done. It's more expressing my hunch than anything else.

++ Nogrod

[Naria]

So that you could slip under the radar?

Slipping....I wasn't trying to do any slipping under anyone's 'radar'. I was simply stating that I didn't agree with the 'looking at the quiet ones' at the very beginning of the game, not hiding just a statement. But I guess like you said we need to start somewhere.


Naria: seems to be a bit mad (not caring of anything real, just laughing alone

And

Naria: the loose madman-butcher? + Sleepy's throat cut

And

You could also see, that Sleepy had next to the Cupid's arrow, mentioned to have his throat slahed so that his head was almost off. The butcher would have the tools and art to do it...

Come on man, do you honestly think that Sleepy would set me up like this? I would like to think that you would give him more credit than this. I picked my occupation not Sleepy, I think he's just going along with our job descriptions at this point in the game. So, don't read too much into what Sleepy has said about me....it won't get you very far. :p


Naria: her "wait and see" attitude as described in #32 seemed a bit opportunistic and therefore perhaps wolfish to me; I am vindicated in this thinking by Holbytlass in her vote.

Once again, it was meerly a statment. I realize that we all need to 'get the ball rolling' per se. But going after someone because they either don't know what to say in the first day or just aren't around when everyone else is doesn't make much sense to me. My "wait and see" attitude is mostly used in the first two days, with not much else to go on, that is what I do to sort things out.

And how exactly are you vindicatd by Holby's vote?


Too sum up this post: some people have a knack for analyzing, some for posting lots and some just talk to hear their own voices. I am none of those. I am not saying that I will not participate in discussion, I am saying that you will not see any of those traits from me. So I am not trying to hide, except of coarse when it comes to the evil that lurks in the shadows. I am merely letting you all know that when I have suspicions or have something useful to add I will. Take away with this as you will, there may not be another post this big from me again.

[Roa_Aoife]

Rules
....
-Double Lynchings are allowed
....

Oops, my mistake. We do have double lynchings.

[Valier]

Vell zince I muzt go I shall vote for

++Nogrod

He is the mozt zuzpizious I think right now. But I have alzo looked at Sleepy's writings again and I noticed Roa wishes to zhow uz who's better and I alzo saw vhat Ang was zaying about Holbytlass. Nogrod novone vill notice because E lookz like a random guy. Also Witch_Queen azzoziates vith Rats! She could be a traitor. Vell I ope all goes vell and ve catch does bad guyz!:)

[Naria]

Wow, looks like the time is drawing near so I shall vote now. I don't agree with the way Nogrod went after all of the quiet ones so quick and early and kept that discussion going, having someone like him around would not help at all...out for blood he is!


++Nogrod

[Roa_Aoife]

Current vote tally, as requested by Sleepy (because he's busy being smart and making resolutions for the next UN meeting):

Thin-1
Naria- 1
LMP- 1
THE Ka- 5
Roa- 1
Holby- 1
Nogrod- 3

[JennyHallu]

More detailed summary:

1. THE Ka - Thinlomien
2. Holbytlass - Naria
3. Eonwe - littlemanpoet
4. littlemanpoet - THE Ka
5. Nogrod - Roa_Aoife
6. Roa_Aoife - THE Ka
7. Encaitare - THE Ka
8. Thinlomien - THE Ka
9. JennyHallu - THE Ka
10. Anguirel - Holbytlass
11. Valesse - Nogrod
12. Valier - Nogrod
13. Naria - Nogrod

Not voted: Witch_Queen, Gil-Galad

[Sleepy Ranger]

"Times up!" That creepy voice echoed throughout the city. "You've made your choice and now see the result!" It broke off into that insane laughter as darkness crept over the city and a strange drowsiness overcame the people.

---
If you haven't understood that means stop posting.

[Sleepy Ranger]

The people woke up to find themselves alone in different parts of the town. Each of them hastily made their way to the town fountain, and there with their arms wrapped around each other lay Sleepy Ranger and The Ka. One of her legs had been severed below the knee and her body seemed to have been drained of all its blood. The blood in the fountain seemed to have risen in level but that wasn't all, the fountain also contained tufts of brown fur, colored red by the blood. Ka's hair was the only part of her that had any blood, it had been soaked in it. There was a note pinned into her forhead, "Werewolf." it read.

And at their feet (just three since Ka had one leg cut off) lay another note which read, "Well, well, well! You killed one of the traitors and on the first day! Would you like some candy to celebrate? Or maybe you'd prefer a leg!" As the villagers read this Ka's other leg exploded below the knee sending bits of flesh and bone splattering over all of them... but there was no blood, it had all been drained. The wind seemed to sigh as it travelled past the dead lovers, even in death together but one question lingered in everyones mind, "Why did she do it?"

Nobody really had any time to ponder over it as the voice of their host exploded from the far end of the town, "Congratulations! You've killed a wolf! Hurrah, lets have a party! A pool party, you'll have to excuse the bloody color and the random tufts of fur floating around. Oh and please pay no heed to the two dead people over there." The fourteen people left looked from one to the other, they had killed a wolf but it seemed things had just gotten worse. "What?!? Nobody wants to party? So bad, too sad, just for that you can die." And one at a time they all fell asleep.

---

Wolves and seers you may begin to PM. Ranger send me the name and Hunter you may choose who you want to now. Oh and on a sidenote I'll be out most of tomorrow so don't expect a reply till sometime around the deadline.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Fourteen fell asleep but only thirteen awoke the next morning. In front of the fountain (where once lay Sleepy and Ka, they had inexplicably vanished) lay LittleManPoet, left eye dangling out of its socket, his hair ripped off along with pieces of bone and little flecks of brain all over his face, but no blood. No, that was all in the fountain. His arms had been mutilated beyond recognition with cuts everywhere and having been twisted into a shape they were never supposed to have been. There was a note pinned into his right eye, "Innocent." it read. The thirteen survivors looked at each other as the madman's voice sounded, "Thirteen! Lucky number thirteen! That means tonight you're all in for a real surprise! All I'm going to say is you better think before you pull any of your tricks my dear seers, ranger and hunter!" The voice trailed off into its trademark laughter.

---

Day 2 may commence now.

[JennyHallu]

JennyHallu
Roa_Aoife
Nogrod
Thinlomien
Naria
Valier
Gil-Galad
Anguirel
THE Ka - Deceased - Werewolf
Witch_Queen
Eonwe
Valesse
Holbytlass
Littlemanpoet - Deceased - Innocent
Encaitare

[Holbytlass]

Thanks to those who took out a wolf yesterDAY, I'm sure at least one fellow wolf voted for The Ka. And very sad to see elempi gone, his wisdom and lyrics will be soorly missed.

What are we supposed to make of this? Either Holby is teasing Sleepy's error, or she's another kind of governor in this town.
Anguriel, I oughta whack you with an anvil! I suppose the thought never occured to you that yes, I do know the proper meaning of "governess" but that Sleepy's mistake did not bother me and so I adopted his definition. As for being another kind of governor, well perhaps Sleepy is teasing me knowing I'm definitely not one of the mentally elite :D.
Anyway, I'm going back and try to make something of yestDAY's voting record.

[Nogrod]

Well my fellow villagers, you really seemed to have had quite an ending the last night! I do congratulate, first and foremost Roa, to have get us rid of a wolf! I just couldn't believe this RL-stuff. If the moderator should be impartial, here he wasn't (some people could have the knowledge, most did not)...

But there seems to be something quite interesting - not only from my personal view - in the last night's late hours.

As a quick summary I do find the last 1h.20min. include only:

1 apology for giving misinformation

2 summaries

1 personal reflection (given as an excuse?), including commenting + a downright abusement of me (leading quite soon to being one of the posters with the next three)

3 votes against me with either false (2) or (masked)hunch-grounds (1)


This sure gives, at least for me, some food for thought...

I'll be analyzing these accusations and the accusators' earlier posts before I go to sleep.

I know, that a detailed defence is overall susceptable. But in this instance - last 1½ hours bandwagon of three, with myself no possibility of answering, kind of justifies my analysis. And because one of these must be a wolf (my "hunch", this time... ;) ), there could be something there.

Let's see, what there is to be found...

[Anguirel]

Thanks Holby, anvil and all. A perfectly adequate self-defence. I had little foundation on which to vote, of course, and the case against THE Ka seemed so...obvious...allow me to mutter to myself about woods and trees.

I now suspect you no more than most. Possibly a little less.

We need to examine the victorious wolf-hangers, the THE Ka bandwagon, and see to what extent we can clear them of wrongdoing.

[JennyHallu]

the case against THE Ka seemed so...obvious

Then why, if you felt you had little else to go on, did you NOT vote for the obvious wolf?

The case you made against Holby felt, frankly, mostly specious at the time. I find it mildly curious that such a strong player as yourself chose to post mostly in ambiguous rhymes, then vote on a weak case when you admit the case for the proven wolf was strong?

[Anguirel]

Because I know that an "obvious wolf" often turns out to be a helpful chap with a cloak and sword, a crossbow and or an astrolabe.

Why did I post in poetry for a little while? Passes the time, exercises the Muse, and keeps up a factor that cannot be easily worked out by analysis or mathematics-namely morale.

Besides, my verse wasn't wholly valueless. What was dangerous was when the whole village slid, Pied Piper style, into doggerel echoing my own. And it's quite interesting to observe who were most eager to don the reassuring bardic role, and what their motives may have been.

As for the accusation towards Holby-you may laugh at it, but you'd be considering it if THE Ka had turned out to be innocent. Presenting an alternate view-even if an incorrect one-is always, always preferable to a herd vote. There are many possible wolves in the Ka-camp as it is. Do you yearn so much, in retrospect, for me to be in that running too?

A range of opinions is no evil, and if you really desire to hang the lone theorists, you end up with a pack of pheasants waiting to be converted, quite systematically, into game pie.

[JennyHallu]

Thank you for your answer. The rhyme had been bothering me since your first few posts, and as I had connection trouble all Day yesterDay--I was lucky to be able to vote, I was not able to ask you about it.

I think the quick descension into copycat verse was, however, easily foreseen.

***

But, since the Ka was a wolf, speculations on what we would have been doing toDay had she been innocent are largely, in my mind, irrelevant. I think today we need to take a close look at those among us, who, although they came in and voted long after the case for THE Ka - and its likely result - was already set in stone, voted in a second, lateborn bandwagon.

Come on man, do you honestly think that Sleepy would set me up like this? I would like to think that you would give him more credit than this. I picked my occupation not Sleepy, I think he's just going along with our job descriptions at this point in the game. So, don't read too much into what Sleepy has said about me....it won't get you very far.

Apparently, Sleepy will set up the wolves in obvious ways. While his hint about Ka required some insider information, it didn't require much.

[Nogrod]

Case Valesse

The "votepost" for me, her last, was the following:

I'm not so keen on Nogrod, who first called for a system of murder. I don't claim to know exactly how to tell a bad egg when I see one, but I feel there is something just a little too drastic going on in that mind. This is death, and we should not be so quick to it, I'd say. It might not be the best explanation, but by the way things look toDay, it'll have no effect, so no harm done. It's more expressing my hunch than anything else.

1. This is death, and we should not be so quick to it, I'd say. What a rhetoric!
A) Valesse had known, even before the start of the game, that we would have to lynch one the first day. So what I call this kind of thing, is hypocrisy.
B) She herself was quick enough to throw a lynching verdict on me just two sentences after that! So who's the quick one here? (there is no hint, or theory, or accusation before this one!) I spent the whole day trying to figure out some reasonable ways to act on, when the time would be.
C) I have not said, we should be quick to point the finger! I myself gave my vote quite reluctantly, because any of the theories didn't seem quite right, at the last possible instance for me.

2. To call a system of murder? Well yes and no. I called for something other than random killing with just hunches (or picking the one, three names down in the list!) - if there just could be another way. That surely always is the hope of the new day: that the evening would be wiser than the morning. And luckily, you could try to help in it by trying to get some action. I have not said, that we should immediately lynch or vote to lynch anyone not posting in the first three hours of game. Even I am not that stupid!

3. I don't claim to know exactly how to tell a bad egg when I see one, but I feel there is something just a little too drastic going on in that mind. You could say that from anyone, and by the shelter of the net, really throw it around. It's more expressing my hunch than anything else The only sentence to the point in this message?

But as 3. (or the sentence preceeding it in actual post) is not so bad as the others, I'd still like to look at points 1. and 2. from a more general point of view.

So why is she clad in the mist of rhetoric (including downright lies!), and why the false accusations?

The bad rhetoric (or lying) might show, that she is hiding her real intentions. Lying = trying us to be convinced that she is not thinking what she actually is thinking.

The false accusations (my "system of murder" - rhetoric here too...) might show that she is either deliberately avoiding the mentioning of my posts where I have rebutted this fantastic interpretation of my views,

or then, she just hasn't read the posts!

Well, we can't just enforce every player to read every post! On the other hand, it's quite questionable, from the moral point of view, to play without reading the posts.

What is downright suspicious (on both moral and wolvish standards), is going to vote for someone, who's posts you haven't read - accusing that one with false grounds, while hiding one's own intents by rhetoric that one herself denies two sentences later!

The two earlier posts were normal posts of the early hours. Nothing in them that I would like to go for, at least the time being...

Suspicious for me, but not a strong candidate. At this hour.

[Anguirel]

I think he'll be more reserved with regard to narration in future. Rather bad luck on the predators if he isn't...

The Nogrod bandwagon too, as has been mentioned by...Nogrod...is so bumbling, bizarre, ill-motivated and yet popular that it deserves a look. It could be supported, though not, I tend to feel, initiated, by a cack-handed werewolf.

[JennyHallu]

I think he'll be more reserved with regard to narration in future. Rather bad luck on the predators if he isn't...

The Nogrod bandwagon too, as has been mentioned by...Nogrod...is so bumbling, bizarre, ill-motivated and yet popular that it deserves a look. It could be supported, though not, I tend to feel, initiated, by a cack-handed werewolf.

I'm sorry...pure question of definition. What does cack-handed mean?

[Valier]

Our pooR Littlemanpoet! Dead as well! *cOugh* *cough*

I seem to have come down with a cold from all this so called fresh air.*Cough* *Cough* (Ok Ok It's because writing in z's and v's is really harder than I thought!)

I am glad that we got one of the baddies! I have looked at The Ka's posts, there were only two. She only mentioned Valesse, Jenny and Roa. She said they fell out of her suspision. She voted for Thinlo because she had not posted yet. Also suspected Witch-Queen for her no-show.

I did see afterwards that there was a bit of a bandwagon for Nogrod. I would have probably been the first to vote for him, but Valesse beat me to it. Nogrod's posts....I don't know errk me. But I need to read his posts over. Valesse has come up for me to look at today. Her post/vote for Nogrod, came right after I posted my concerns about him. I was taking a shot in the dark (You always do on the first day) I didn't think anyone would vote with me, it was pretty spread out then. The Ka did mention her First as not being suspisious....

Well I'll go back through and see if I can come up with anything else.*cough* *cough*

P.S. Please do not take the change in accent as suspisious...It really was hard to put down thoughts with all that nonsense...Sorry! I thought it would be fun...It was not.):D

[Encaitare]

1. littlemanpoet, currently deceased. He worded his suspicions for her as such:

1. Votes for Thinlomiel after others have voiced some suspicion in that direction, thereby following a trend.
2. She protests way too much in defense of every single possible contingency of which she finds herself able to be accused; that seems rather guilty behavior to me.
3. I notice that others have found other areas of suspicion that I have not yet had time to research.

The "other areas" would refer to the messages in Sleepy's posts.

2. Roa_Aoife

I believe she was the first one to really bring up the thing with the Cupid's arrow, and Sleepy and Ka's RL relationship. She based her vote on that.

3. Encaitare

I was at first skeptical of whether the theories had any substance. But as it was Day 1 I had nothing else to go on, and I find too much self-defense and empty words to be suspicious, hence my vote.

4. Thinlomien

Admitted that a vote for Ka is bandwagoning, but also that Ka is "the most suspicious peson here," and therefore voted for her nevertheless.

5. JennyHallu

The final vote for Ka, though she crossposted with Thinlomien. She wrote that the Cupid's Arrow argument "seems very very sound".

It's quite possible that one of these is a wolf, though it's difficult to say who it could be. It's doubtful that it's Roa, as she cast the second vote that really got the whole thing going. That'd have to be one bold wolf. As for Lommy and Jenny, I would wonder if a wolf would allow the bandwagon to continue. Since Jenny crossposted with Lommy, they both would have thought they were the fourth vote. At this time, the voting still could have been swung in a different direction with a convincing enough argument. So again, it's a little hard to tell. If anyone has some ideas about this, let's hear them!

(I have left myself out of my analysis there, as analyzing my votes is a task better suited to others.)

Now I must depart; I shall return later tonight.

[Anguirel]

Cack-handed, damosel, means clumsy, unsubtle.

An interesting analysis of the Ka-voters from Enca...for some reason I'd thought Roa had started the movement, not LMP. Thanks for the clarification. It's true that by the orthodox patterns of wolvery, the signs point to Jenny and Thinlomien, but who knows if a more radical tactic would serve us more reliably?

I wonder what sort of part THE Ka played in the triumvirate. Though articulate, I feel she wouldn't have risen to a commanding role. Depending on who her companions were, of course.

I am not especially worried by LMP's valiant fall. The wolves obviously slew him thinking that even if not gifted, his experience would make him a fearsome enemy. I would differ from that approach. As an innocent, he causes altogether too much controversy, usually pretty much undeserved...but old habits die hard, and I'm almost glad his puzzle has been solved.

Look well upon the analysis he left, now we now he's reliable. Alas, he wasn't as talkative as usual...

[Nogrod]

Case Naria

The "abusement"-post #100 (the quote here was preceded by quotes of mine pointing to different "hints" by Sleepy that could be associated to Naria):

Come on man, do you honestly think that Sleepy would set me up like this? I would like to think that you would give him more credit than this. I picked my occupation not Sleepy, I think he's just going along with our job descriptions at this point in the game. So, don't read too much into what Sleepy has said about me....it won't get you very far.

do you honestly think that Sleepy would set me up like this? Surely not! Could anyone of us give an honest vote on the first day? (Well one can always hope, there is a chance for that...)

I would like to think that you would give him more credit than this. Even though there is a some reason behind this, it might as well be read as pure rhetorics gag, trying to make any suspicions based on Sleepy's texts unbelievable! And we already saw, that Sleepy did provide us our first wolf-kill!

So, don't read too much into what Sleepy has said about me....it won't get you very far Am I just seeing something where there is nothing, but this could be read as a clear threat!!! Read it in that light, and you will see it...

And the "votingpost":

Wow, looks like the time is drawing near so I shall vote now. I don't agree with the way Nogrod went after all of the quiet ones so quick and early and kept that discussion going, having someone like him around would not help at all...out for blood he is!

Wow, looks like the time is drawing near so I shall vote now. And this remark is done only some ½ hours later from the earlier one!!! Wow - indeed! What a surprise to her it must have been?

I don't agree with the way Nogrod went after all of the quiet ones so quick and early and kept that discussion going We indeed had this same discussion earlier: posts 32 (Naria) and 38 (me). That seems to have not have any bearing on her accusations. Check them, and see for yourselves.

So she's ignoring the reply, and repeating the accusation that was shown illinformed or misunderstood! Just hoping, that no-one would check the thing out?

having someone like him around would not help at all... So it's not helpful to have someone around, who really tries to make the difference (I do admit, that my first day performance was not so good: I couldn't make you all to see my point, and I didn't bet on the right horse - it was just so unbelievable that the mod would bring some RL things into a game...). I would like to ask Naria, which kind of people she would see useful around? Maybe a village full of WQ's (no posts) could be nice, or Gil-Galads (one, nonsense)? To whom, might these be of assistance: to the WW's or to the villagers? If you are a villager proper and not a traitor, why do you think that people who try to elaborate over things, who try to find clues etc. are "not of any help at all"? I would find even a elaborate wolf "of even some help" (compared to this "no help at all")!!!

So what do we have here above?

Trying to play down looking at Sleepy's hints (which ½ hour later turned out to be relevant and to the point).

Threatening! (who could actually use a threat in this game, but a wolf?)

Lying / false accusations.

Pure wolf-talk (talk from the wolf's point of view).

Faltering rhetoric and questionable turns of words.

You may all think about this what you will. I will read Naria's posts quite carefully today...

There is the hint by Sleepy, which I myself admit - alongside Naria - to be quite absurdingly "too clear": there is a madman loose (Naria is pictured as mad) etc. But her actions, and the above, really makes me suspicious (being suspicious is not a proof of anything, and not even an accusation!).

But: jumpy like a wulf?

Look also at the rhetoric at Naria's post #32...

[Nogrod]

An interesting analysis of the Ka-voters from Enca...for some reason I'd thought Roa had started the movement, not LMP. Thanks for the clarification. It's true that by the orthodox patterns of wolvery, the signs point to Jenny and Thinlomien, but who knows if a more radical tactic would serve us more reliably?


Just came to my mind, that Jenny said she cross-posted with Thinlómien. Well there is 10 minutes gap between their votes, and Jenny's is not so very long or thorough one! Everyone knows, one can write to the post, that one has x-posted.

There even isn't that edited...xxx -thing attached to the bottom of the post.

I may be seeing ghosts here, but perhaps there could be something?

My time to sleep draws near, but anyone with nothing else to do: a quick look at Jenny's posting might be worthwhile?

[Anguirel]

A chimerical accusation, Nogrod-give the poor doomsayer a break. If she deserves suspicion, it's certainly not because of quibbling over posting times. I think her a better sport than to resort to the low trick of claiming to cross-post, and expect she paused for a refreshing quart of whisky or two...or at the least a cup of tea...

But I digress. Nogrod, one wolf may have voted for you, but if two did, then I'm a methagallinarius d'or rampant on a field sable. I would advise you to broaden your scope a little beyond those who suspected you, though I accept your reaction is a natural one.

[JennyHallu]

Nogrod -- in answer to what you said concerning my X post with Lommy. This was a case of RL intruding on my fun...I was posting from work. Occasionally I need to leave my window open while I take care of some other work related thing. YesterDay at work we had a major crisis come up while I was posting--a major power outage at the hospital our company does maintenance for. Luckily we're on a separate circuit so I didn't lose my post, but I did have to drop everything and deal with the issue. A power failure at a hospital can, as I'm sure you can see, be catastrophic.

As for no "edit" note, that is because I forgot, and was doing it quickly so I could get back to work.

[JennyHallu]

As for your suspicions regarding your accusers, Nogrod, I believe that nothing can be proven regarding Valesse and Valier. They cross-posted, and both posted early enough that I do accept it as a pure reaction to your (admit it) aggressiveness.

But I think Nogrod has a point about Naria. To phrase it in more objective terms, she did not seem to lean towards any particular suspect, but waited until the last minute to make a vote that I have to see as safe: someone widely suspected, but not likely to actually be lynched.

And I feel we would be remiss if, no matter the dire situation surrounding us, we did not take the time to say:


HAPPY BIRTHDAY, VALESSE!!!!

Many happy returns!

[Anguirel]

Aye. Happy Birthday, quite.

But to return to matters more prosaic ere I go to analyse the battle of Antioch...

I disagree with you, Jenny, about the motive of our hypothetical Nogrod-voting wolf. I'm pretty sure they'd be counting on the gathering momentum to save their comrade...unsuccessfully, but at that stage they weren't to know that.

Now farewell a while...

[Nogrod]

A chimerical accusation, Nogrod-give the poor doomsayer a break. If she deserves suspicion, it's certainly not because of quibbling over posting times.

Well, I wasn't quite accusing, at least I hope so (I said: I may be seeing ghosts ). And I agree, that would be a bad sportmanship. But as I looked at those two posts, I just couldn't help noticing the time-difference. The case is as solid as it sounds (=very unsolid indeed).

But I digress. Nogrod, one wolf may have voted for you, but if two did, then I'm a methagallinarius d'or rampant on a field sable. I would advise you to broaden your scope a little beyond those who suspected you, though I accept your reaction is a natural one.

I wouldn't believe for any more than one either! Or then we would just have very very stupid wolves around!!!

And rest assured, I will broaden my scope.

I just felt quite so frustrated, and kind of insulted, to have been spotted and bandwagoned that way at the last possible hour, that I kind of just wanted to make it clear to myself, where did these accusations stem up from, and whether there is something, that we could profit from as a village.

Also, with my quite accusatory analysis, I wish to show, as a self-defence of a kind, that I can come up with accusations too, if someone so wishes. But anyways: that's the way I like to play: not hiding in shadows, or throwing random accusations at the last minute, but going for it, trying to build cases that would really help, and for which I myself could really vote for...

As I'm heading for bed, I'll promise to come back with this case behind me. Valier's posts are so elusive, that I'm not sure, whether there is anything to point out actually. I'll probably take one look at them tomorrow, and then refocus everything up to date.

And I surely hope, there has been some more posting meanwhile to get into...

X-posted with the last three...

[Eonwe]

Just checking in. Congrats to everyone yesterday who voted for THE Ka. Well done, though I'm sure one of you is a wolf. I'm guessing someone who voted right after LMP or right near the end. The first being 'slip in my vote when it won't look bad' and the second being 'salvage what I can from the reckage'.

Other than that, I need to read through the posts and sift through the evidence left by THE Ka. I'll be back on later, hopefully with something to bring to the table.

[Nogrod]

=JENNY A power failure at a hospital can, as I'm sure you can see, be catastrophic.

I apologize! I was mis-/uninformed.

=JENNY As for your suspicions regarding your accusers, Nogrod, I believe that nothing can be proven regarding Valesse and Valier. They cross-posted, and both posted early enough that I do accept it as a pure reaction to your (admit it) aggressiveness.

I'm about to think about the same, although I'm quite distracted with Valier's elusiveness...

Concerning my aggressiveness: who needs to be afraid of a vocal player who tries to do something? :p

Well, surely I admit. The aggressiveness. I don't want to post one "hello, what a pity s/he died" -post a day... That's miserable gaming.

And why is everyone so scared of their lives? This is a game! No-ones' really gonna die... So play in a dull way (not enjoying it) and keep yourself alive two more days? What's the fun there?

=ANGUIREL I disagree with you, Jenny, about the motive of our hypothetical Nogrod-voting wolf. I'm pretty sure they'd be counting on the gathering momentum to save their comrade...unsuccessfully, but at that stage they weren't to know that.

Well, I kind of had that feeling too. Otherwise it truly baffles me... I mean: two out of three last votes (within the last 1½ hours), would anyhow seemed "natural": people quite not knowing what to do, and distasting my style of playing. But three is a lot! 100% of votes at the last call, when couple of votes were still waited in - and happily never came. With double lynching, I would have been a goner with those both sleepers on board, getting on board the wagon...

Detail: Valier's and Naria's votes came in after Roa had apologized, that she had been wrong, and that double lynchings were indeed the rule!!!

But I do simultaneosly think, that they couldn't be the two of them there: it would be too obvious. And again: very cunning wolves could count on just that - nobody would believe, that two of them would bandwagon with a last instant vote!

Well you never know.

First stage: you are a fool and reveal yourself

Second stage: you are wise and hide yourself

Third stage: You are very wise and reveal yourself, and then defend by saying, I'm not a fool (1st. stage)

Fourth stage: You are overtly cunning, and hide yourself, and defend yourself by saying, that you are not just some medium player who would try to hide oneself (2nd. stage)

Fifth stage: ... etc.

Good night,

and happy birthday Valesse!

PS. this is not like a birthday gift, but I'd like to mention, that I really am beginning to think, that you are the least suspicious one of the three of you... :)

[Nogrod]

My last add-on for now:

Jenny! I kind of accepted your explanation concerning my quite innocent notion concerning the posting times between you and Thin'lo. Even though, I wondered, why did you have to defend so overwhelmingly (well I'm the one to accuse someone about overwhelming self-defence!? :o ). But anyhow. The thing that caused me to put forward this one is here:

As for your suspicions regarding your accusers, Nogrod, I believe that nothing can be proven regarding Valesse and Valier. They cross-posted, and both posted early enough that I do accept it as a pure reaction to your (admit it) aggressiveness.

Why is it, that you are outright lying with this one?

(all times GMT)

Valesse posted her vote: 5:41

Valier posted 6:07

Naria 6:37

So there is 26 minutes between Valesse and Valier, and no mentioning of cross-posting!

I really was suspecting Naria before that, but now I have to admit, that her scorn over me could be from outside this game (or partly from within this one), and probably be purely personal, well, who knows? Something like that would explain her harshness etc. ("my presence being not helpful at all")

One possible combination of wolves could be Jenny and Valier...? And there are lots of other combinations too.

Read this clearly: this is not an accusation, this is a lead for anyone to see through, to analyze, to whatever.

Just suggesting alternative theories. That's what we have to do, if we are to take down the wolves... We will have to see different possibilities through and then to ponder over them. I myself have made a couple of light cases / questions, and admitted them being wrong the moment, being given a good explanation to them.

And as in the last game (my first), I do the same thing in this game too, and ask for you to accuse me also! Do it not by saying: I don't like him or his playing style, or I have a hunch he's "out for blood" etc. but make some solid accusations! Only with those can I show my innocense and make you believe, I'm for the good of the village (and avoid those creepy bandwagons of the night...)!

[Nogrod]

PS to the earlier one's...

I'll have to try to get my own head straight with these two last posts. First I was thinking having a good case on the first one, then on this second one.

What differentiates these two posts? Additional information.

So write people, write...

Maybe we will have something done when the evening comes?

[Roa_Aoife]

So, LMP was innocent, and now I find that our attackers are werewolves! How many more may be among us?

Reporting in for the moment. I am here, and I will have some analysis soon. (Good talkative village. I have something to work with.) I see Nogrod is as agressive and accusatory as before. I'd like to remind you that if you are innocent making yourself overtly lynchable does nothing to help the village. This is a team sport, remember: Us (Villagers) vs. Them (Werewolves). The object is to wipe out the otherside. It does us no good if you do the wolves' work for them. And the wolves have an advantage- they know who their teammates are, and can act together. We, on the other hand, are working quite seperately because we cannot trust each other.

Back Soon!

[Naria]

I'd like to address a few things here from bottom to top:

Nogrod

Detail: Valier's and Naria's votes came in after Roa had apologized, that she had been wrong, and that double lynchings were indeed the rule!!!

I for one knew that double-lynching was a rule before Roa has said anything. I did read the rules.

So, don't read too much into what Sleepy has said about me....it won't get you very far Am I just seeing something where there is nothing, but this could be read as a clear threat!!! Read it in that light, and you will see it...

What threat? It wasn't meant to be a threat at all. It's the truth. And yes I would definitely say that you are seeing something that isn't there.

Wow, looks like the time is drawing near so I shall vote now. And this remark is done only some ½ hours later from the earlier one!!! Wow - indeed! What a surprise to her it must have been?

I didn't look at the time after I had done my longer post and thought I had more time. I came back to see what was going on and saw the time was getting on and voted. And yes it did surprise me, hey I'm a fun loving kind of gal! :D

So she's ignoring the reply, and repeating the accusation that was shown ill informed or misunderstood

My bad, sorry! I just looked now and you had backed off a bit.

having someone like him around would not help at all... So it's not helpful to have someone around, who really tries to make the difference

Again, I'm sorry. You have clearly misunderstood me here. Of course it is good to have someone around that is helpful in their thinking, sure. However, the making a difference part I guess would be how each of us looks at ones posts and making our own minds up if that person has made a difference or not.


Another thing that I find weird is, in his analysis post of me, he spells the word 'Wolf' correctly five times but then at the end he spells wolf with a 'u' instead of an 'o'. Maybe nothing, might just be a typo....hm mm.

And yes, Nogrod I am aware that you are sleeping right now. I can't help that our timezones are different, business as usual.

I would like to catch us another wolf, instead of bickering back and forth. I will address concerns, but do not wish to bicker hence forth. :)

Gahh, looks like I went and did another long post.

[Naria]

I really was suspecting Naria before that, but now I have to admit, that her scorn over me could be from outside this game (or partly from within this one), and probably be purely personal, well, who knows? Something like that would explain her harshness etc. ("my presence being not helpful at all")

Maybe....point taken though! :D I will leave outside hindrances at the door when I come into this game from now on. Still, if I have a hunch or my gut is telling me something is fishy about you(or anyone else) I will take a look.

[Roa_Aoife]

Also, I need to point out that while the clue about one wolf was clear in the intro, it's unlikely that any other clue would be that obvious. (I think Sleepy was messing with THE Ka on that one. :rolleyes: ) Clues are most certainly in there, but I doubt we'd be able to spot them so easily again. And anything could have a double meaning. As LMP said before he died, the clues may just be mind boggling.

[Gil-Galad]

sorry for not being too big of a player right now, i must re-read the votes and vote before i have to leave...

[Roa_Aoife]

sorry for not being too big of a player right now, i must re-read the votes and vote before i have to leave...

Oh dear, it seems we have a Gandalf repeat. *sigh* Moving on...

Analysis of THE Ka Bandwagon:
After LMP and myself (who I cannot analyze with any sort of objectivity), we have Enca, Thin, and Jenny. It's highly probable that one of these is a wolf. However, it is not altogether certain, since the craftier wolves tend to avoid grouping as much as possible. In the interest of finding something worth looking at, though:

Enca Analysis:
Day 1
1st post- General in character nonsense
2nd - Remarks on nudging quiet ones, but not too hard
3rd - Checks in again, says vote will likely be random
4th - Long. Wants to keep options open regarding quiet ones. Doesn't want to base a lynching on Sleepy's posts. Restates vote record twice. Says kill could go anyway with so many people left to vote. (The number of remaining votes was 8, after her vote.) Decides on voting Ka apparently due to LMP's analysis.

Day 2
1st - Small summary analysis of Ka voters. Thinks one my be a wolf, but seems to justify every voter and doesn't suspect any of them. Has presently taken leave and says she will return.

These are the objective facts of Enca's posting. I'll analyze them according to what I see separately, so as not to sway anything.

Thin's and Jenny's will be up next.

[Roa_Aoife]

Oh, this was a lot of work.

Thin's Analysis
Day 1
1st post - Rhyme about RL issues, questions Nogrod, says first day is all nonsense.
2nd - Greets Jenny, agrees that looking at Ang for rhymes and Valier for typed accent is a good place to start.
3rd - Double post. Comes against with evidence against Roa based on Sleepy's posts, but says she's not accusing her. Says previous remark on role-playing is generally nonsense.
4th - Triple post. Questions Ang's lack of suspicion for her.
5th - Quadruple post. Agrees on giving more time to the silent ones. Says W_Q's silence is not enough to convict.
6th - Quintuple post. Questions own reasoning on Ang, wonders if Jenny has completed her analysis.
7th - Would be sextuple post, except cross-posted with Holbytlass. Changes mind and says she understands Nogrod's point about nonsense posts.
8th - Double post. Agrees that non-voting doesn't help. Agrees that Naria and Valier are "slippery" but there is time left for them to improve posts. Thinks Jenny isn't as bad.
9th - Triple post. Agrees with Naria that waiting is really all one can do on first day. Suggests that the enemy is one that no one has yet suspected. Thinks accusing everyone wouldn't be helpful, but also thinks that watching the reactions to accusations is. Lists votes.
10th - Wonders about the "pressing the silent one's" theory, and about the grouping on that idea.
11th - Nothing post.
12th - Says again that first day is nonsense.
13th - Again wonders about the "silence theory"
14th - Reanalyzes day and realizes that there really was no grouping on the "silence theory"
15th - Thinks Ang is moving on the "silence theory" trend, points out Enca's lack of substance
16th - Thinks Roa's theory is a good one.
17th - Says theory is better, and Roa is unlikely a wolf.
18th - Sarcasm at Eonwe's method of voting. Thinks that some formula is possible. More sarcasm at Eonwe's theory.
19th - Wonders why Roa thinks Sleepy would use "that kind of subtlety"
20th - Wonders about opening poem. Looks at hint in Naria's post, but brushes it off.
21st - Thinks looking at avies is over-kill.
22nd - Replies to LMP's post.
23rd- Says she's accusing Ka rather than defending her. Quotes herself to show defense and attack. Thinks Roa's theory is solid, but doesn't want to take sides.
24th - Wants to hear from Gil, Valesse and Valier.
25th- Agrees that Sleepy is clever, thinks she will bandwagon on the Ka vote
26th - Says Valier is using her accent as a cover.
27th - Nothing post
28th - Says Valier is assuming that the accent will take attention from her posts. Asks why Valier distrusts Nogrod and trust Ka
29th - Nothing post
30th - Points out that she brings up more than one side of the matter. Says she isn't accusing Enca.
31st - Doesn't blame Valier's gut instinct. Votes Ka admits to bandwagon but believes Ka is the most suspicious.

Day 2
No posts yet (Thank God. That was tedious.)

[JennyHallu]

Why is it, that you are outright lying with this one?

Sorry, not a lie, an error. I thought I remembered Valier saying it was a cross-post, and I was wrong. Clumsy of me, but not a sign of wolvishness. Relax, Nogrod. You are very quick to jump to conclusions.

[Eonwe]

Nogrod is very uptight, it seems. But maybe that is just how he plays.

Roa, thanks for doing all this work. I myself am not really fealing up to in (midterms and whatnot :rolleyes: ) and so I appreciate it greatly.

If I'm not mistaken (or rather if Enca is not mistaken ;) ), the votes for THE Ka went like this:

1. LMP
2. Roa_Aoife
3. Encaitare
4. Thinlomien
5. JennyHallu

LMP was obviously innocent.

Roa: Don't really know about that. This whole digging up stuff could be an act, and it could just be really helpful. Though she did bring up the whole arrow theory in the first place. I think that would be a point in her favor.

Enca: I think she is supicious. The placement of her vote is a bit suspicious: third, right were it would be when a wolf realized THE Ka was pretty much dead. What with the hinting done by sleepy ranger, I think THE Ka was on her way out.

Lommy: I dunno. Placement of vote is a bit suspicious. Though all the theorising she did yesterDay is again a point in her favor. Though of course it could be an act.

JennyHallu: Ditto. On the 'im not sure' part. Though her vote could be taken either way, depending on teh skill level you attribute to Jenny.... (if you see what I mean.)

More latter on...

[Eonwe]

Lommy, let me clarify my now infamous Post #57:

My vote was completely random, as I felt that there was no evidence for me to follow. I don't think I would have voted for THE Ka, certainly not with all that bandwagoning going on. Of course, I'm not going to be making those 'flighty' (good word, by the way) votes any more, especially as the evidence increases. There was just a derth of information on that first day.

And you suggest that we all just accuse each other totally randomly before the seer comes out?!? And all the gifteds should come out so that they'd be killed? A very fine theory, Eonwe.

No, no of course not. That would be, um, less than smart, to say the least. This is how it works:

Everyone tries to lynch peole they think are guilty (basically you play the game). Hopefully, you can get one or even two wolves. Then, somewhere down teh line, the seer can check of three or four people from everyone's list, the ranger and teh hunter can each take one off (hopefully) and the list suddenly gets rather more narrow. And puts the remaining wolves in a very much tighter place. Of course, this only happens when there is sufficiently few people to make the list small enough to be useful. (AKA, no, the gifted do NOT rush out wildly proclaiming their innconce.) I hope that was more clear than before.

But we can try not to be! I don't think the best way of avoiding a mistake is voting randomly.

Of course we can. The whole point is to educate yourself as best you can, and vote accordingly.

[Roa_Aoife]

Sorry for the delay. Some RL chores needed doing.

Jenny Analysis
Day 1
1st post - says pointing at the too loud or too quiet doesn't normally help. Wants to get some discussion going.
2nd - Doesn't agree with THE Ka's suspicions. Wants to give more time to the silent. Wants to look at Ang and Valier. Decides to analyze Sleepy's posts.
3rd - Likes that people analyzed Sleepy's posts. Vague suspicion that the traitors are female, and towards Naria's intro. Votes Ka.
4th - Detailed vote summary.

Day 2
1st - List of living and dead.
2nd - looks at Ang for not voting for the Ka, and odd case for Holby.
3rd - Accepts Ang's defense. Thinks speculating about what Ka's innocence could have meant is irrelevant. Thinks more obvious hints may be given in the clues.
4th - Definition question
5th - Explains cross post as RL issue
6th - Thinks nothing can be proven regarding Valesse and Valier, but thinks about Naria.
7th - Explains cross-post mix-up as clumsiness

[Roa_Aoife]

Roa, thanks for doing all this work.

Sure thing. Any analysis requests while I'm at it? Really, the kicker was Thin's. :eek: Which for my analysis:

Thin is tricky. One wouldn't think a wolf would put themselves out there so much. It seems that they would rather avoid the spotlight than hog it. (No offense.) However, she's inconsistent, and she rarely came up with new ideas with all that posting. Half her posts are merely agreeing with other people's posts, or disagreeing with them. In the end, she went with the popular bandwagon. She even contradicted herself in actions by giving a great deal of credence to my "hint" but while brushing over Naria's. Now, the inconsistency may very well be stream of consciousness writing, and a product of the sheer volume of posts. But odd, isn't it, that if I wasn't actually quite so methodical a lot of this would have escaped notice despite the ammount available? Flood posting- is that a new tactic?

Enca, again adds very little to the discussion, but this may be because RL kept her absence. She did stay consistent throughout, and while I was pleased at finding the hint in Sleepy's post, I do think LMP's analysis was much more persuasive. This is what Enca based her vote on, not the hint I had pulled. Still, she's very iffy. Her lack of new information and the convenient vote can't be ignored.

Jenny is clearly a clever player, whatever side she's on. I wouldn't underestimate her. She does stay consistent on day one, though day two seems more responsive than anything else. That business about the cross-posting seems squicky, but I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.

I did find it interesting that both Jenny and Thin suspected Naria, but failed to push the issue.

[Encaitare]

Sorry I had to run out so quickly before; I had to go do Roa's job (AKA babysit). Just a few small points for now of things that have caught my eye...

The attention to tiny, tiny details in this game is crazy! (In retrospect, it proved to be helpful in getting enough people to vote for Ka, though, so maybe it's not such a terrible thing.) However, analyzing the minutes between posts and worrying about the possibility of people falsely claiming to have cross-posted seems to be time better spent on analyzing actual statements.

One particularly interesting thing...

Just came to my mind, that Jenny said she cross-posted with Thinlómien. Well there is 10 minutes gap between their votes, and Jenny's is not so very long or thorough one! Everyone knows, one can write to the post, that one has x-posted.

There even isn't that edited...xxx -thing attached to the bottom of the post.

I may be seeing ghosts here, but perhaps there could be something?

And only a few posts later, in post #128, Nogrod writes at the end that he cross-posted with the last three people, but there is no "edit" note at the bottom of the post either! So unless Nogrod was lying as well, which I very much doubt, the edit tag is not a reliable system.

I'm going to go back and try to do a more thorough analysis now.

EDIT: Cross-posted with Roa. No, really, I did. ;)

[Encaitare]

Again, some more things that have caught my eye as I’ve reread the Day 2 posts.

I think he'll be more reserved with regard to narration in future. Rather bad luck on the predators if he isn't...

(bold mine) A true statement, no doubt, but it smells a bit of fraternizing with the enemy… or perhaps a slip that indicates something more deeply lupine?

I do agree with Ang, however, in that the Nogrod bandwagon at the end was very odd. Generally bandwagons lead to a lynching, and aren’t just a brief stream of votes at the tail end of a Day.

Nogrod’s post #122 reveals some interesting points about Naria – perhaps a wolf-Naria would fear that Nogrod’s bold writing could touch a little too close to the mark?

I see Nogrod is as agressive and accusatory as before. I'd like to remind you that if you are innocent making yourself overtly lynchable does nothing to help the village.

I don’t see being vocal as being synonymous with overly suspicious. While it’s true that aggressive players often become controversial, and that a wolf can hide behind a loud front, it’s good to get opinions and ideas out there. Despite this statement, I really do believe that Roa is innocent due to her early vote for Ka.

Earlier I said that quietness alone is no reason to kill someone. RL happens, despite our best intentions. :p But when people do not talk at all, like Witch_Queen, then I think it’s time to become more suspicious of them. I’m thinking that if WQ posts nothing for Day 2, she could be a prime candidate for my vote, if not toDay then on Day 3. Maybe she’s innocent, maybe she’s not – either way she’s not helping.

There seems to be a fair amount of suspicion regarding my vote. I voted third for Ka, seventh in the total order. There were six votes left, and note how easily the final three voters formed a bandwagon for Nogrod! It would not have been impossible for a wolf-Enca to vote for someone else to tie them with Ka with two votes each, and then, as I stated in an earlier post, to sway a couple of other people to that person, rather than cast a crucial vote for a comrade. I hope at least some of you can see the logic here.

Now looking for some clues in Sleepy’s “it shall be over soon” post, perhaps not conclusive but some points to consider nonetheless:

They had called her stupid, they had laughed at her. She would show them who was better, it wouldn't be long now. (About Roa)

This connotes a desire for vengeance, as others have suggested. But as I have stated, I don’t think Roa is a wolf.

She had been cast away by society, she had been called a freak due to what she made. The people were too narrow-minded to see the beauty in her work. (about Thinlomien)

Sleepy hints at Thinlo having a macabre sense of the beautiful, which could go with the bloody fountain imagery.

Her small store was rarely visited by anyone, it reeked of the smell of death but that did not bother her, she just laughed as she did her job. (about Naria)

This has also been brought up before, as laughing while butchering is a bit, er, creepy.

Being a governess was a tiring job, you had to move about and talk to fake people while being marginably fake yourself but it was one she managed to do with ease. (about Holby)

The whole game of Werewolf is about faking people out, and Sleepy says she does it with ease.

That’s all for now. My suspicions are still rather vague. I suppose those towards the top of my list are Naria, Thinlomien (largely for the crazy multiple posting), and Witch_Queen.

I think I speak for all of us when I ask the following people to please speak up:

Witch_Queen
Gil-Galad
Valesse

I shall return around noon tomorrow to read and cast my vote.

[Naria]

Nogrod’s post #122 reveals some interesting points about Naria – perhaps a wolf-Naria would fear that Nogrod’s bold writing could touch a little too close to the mark

Interesting, perhaps. True, not at all. Nogrod's bold writing is just that.
Touched too close to the mark, nah he was just annoying me. :D

This has also been brought up before, as laughing while butchering is a bit, er, creepy.

Creepy indeed! That's exactly what I thought when I read it. But it is nothing more than that I assure you.


But when people do not talk at all, like Witch_Queen, then I think it’s time to become more suspicious of them. I’m thinking that if WQ posts nothing for Day 2, she could be a prime candidate for my vote, if not toDay then on Day 3. Maybe she’s innocent, maybe she’s not – either way she’s not helping.

Even though I am against lynching someone because of their quietness, I would have to agree with this point. She has yet to post in this game and it is making me a little uneasy.(Bolding is mine)

[Nogrod]

Thank's for Roa especially! Good analysis - and a heroic one with Thinlómien! ;)

But just a comment, to begin with. To clear myself a bit.


ROA: I see Nogrod is as agressive and accusatory as before.

JENNY: Relax, Nogrod. You are very quick to jump to conclusions.

EONWE: Nogrod is very uptight, it seems. But maybe that is just how he plays.

Aggressive?
I admit. When it's very silent (f.ex. the first day), someone has to do something. And If I'm being banwagond the way you all saw, you could understand some aggressiveness in defence... :)

Accusatory? Quick to jump to conclusions?
Not at all! What I'm trying to do, is to find hints, possibilities, oddities, revealing rhetoric, deceptions, lies etc. and try to see, whether I could build anything up from them. Then I try to point these out for everyone to see and look for themselves. What other way we villagers can work against the wolves? Let those who need to hide, do so, we should bang the gong now! But as it is now, I'm not having any conclusions about the situation, quite the opposite, more like baffled.

I really had to check my dictionary about "uptight" (yes, I remembered correctly, just couldn't believe it)! No way! I'm having fun, I really am! Quite relaxed, for it has been an enjoyable game so far.

[Nogrod]

To continue Roa's summarizations (#144), here's what I came up with yesterday (RL), as I tried to study that "late nite bandwagon".

Valesse: Started it. Baffling vote. Probably due to not reading the posts and trying to cover a pure hunch with self contradicting reasons. Bad gaming, but I would say, innocent.

Naria: The last one to vote. I had some lighter and some stronger suspicions over her in my analysis (counterattack, if you will - even though my "attack" didn't include a vote for her: so who's aggressive? :p ). Naria answered (#134) the light ones well, but seemed to have some trouble answering bit harder one's. Seems to dislike me anyhow, so that makes judging her gameposts a bit harder. Maybe she just didn't know who to vote, and then picked on me from out of annoyance? (Hope she sticks to her promise to leave those things out from her posts from now on)
I'll continue suspecting her, but really admit not having anything to go for seriously.

Valier: Second to join the vote. Kind of making it a wagon. What makes her interesting, is that as I found two possible pairs of wolves last night (both cases being very, very weak, I admit), still she happened to be on both of them.
The very,very weak cases:
1) Actual wolf-bandwagon, incl. Valier & Naria
2) Jenny, who had raised some suspicion (tiny one) trying to clean Valier with a lie, so Jenny & Valier?
But then again: wolfs making a bandwagon at the end of the day? wolf saving wolf? Improbable. But if they are very cunning, then possible. Well you never know the wolves now do you?
Anyhow. Nothing with Valier that would really stick. I, or someone, probably should check her posts still?

[Nogrod]

Answering Enca's post, here concerning the nonposting of the WQ, Naria writes:

Even though I am against lynching someone because of their quietness, I would have to agree with this point. She has yet to post in this game and it is making me a little uneasy.

I agree with this feeling of uneasiness. I have the same feeling with Gil-Galad. And somewhat with Valesse.

But I would also like to point out, that someone not posting at all is basically not playing the game. So, at some point at least, I would be ready to leave them be and just ignore them, if we just have anything more sensible to vote. For if someone turns out to be a wolf without posting anything, S/he has not played a fair game and is a moral loser, which I think is the worst kind of losing there is. So then, no problem, even if are dead after all this: we have had a good game which could be called undecided (if someone really wants a verdict). And the cheater would have to carry the guilt.

I'm just afraid, that more probably than not, by lynching these quiet's, we lynch innocents anyhow - and that's the job of the wolves, in which we should not help them at all.

EDIT: As I have already triple-posted and have some RL to live, I'l be off too. But I surely will be around here for a bit more energetic session before the vote.

[Thinlómien]

I will never be able to comment all this! :eek: But I try to make points on some things.

I know I was posting pretty much yesterday... I had nothing else to do than play WW so I commented every little thing I thought was worth commenting.

Sleepy hints at Thinlo having a macabre sense of the beautiful, which could go with the bloody fountain imagery. Agree that macabre sense of beautiful would maybe go with bloody fountain imagery, but the reson why Sleepy hinted that was probably because of my profession, sculptor specializing in nightmarish birds. If someone makes statues of nightmare-like birds he/she must have a strange sense of beautiful.

One thing troubles me. You're all assuming we have clever wolves. What if we don't? What if the wolves are really stupid?

[Thinlómien]

having someone like him around would not help at all... So it's not helpful to have someone around, who really tries to make the difference (I do admit, that my first day performance was not so good: I couldn't make you all to see my point, and I didn't bet on the right horse - it was just so unbelievable that the mod would bring some RL things into a game...). I would like to ask Naria, which kind of people she would see useful around? Maybe a village full of WQ's (no posts) could be nice, or Gil-Galads (one, nonsense)? To whom, might these be of assistance: to the WW's or to the villagers? If you are a villager proper and not a traitor, why do you think that people who try to elaborate over things, who try to find clues etc. are "not of any help at all"? I would find even a elaborate wolf "of even some help" (compared to this "no help at all")!!! Nogrod, you don't have to be aggressive to be able to converse! Bringing up new things and thoughts is always good, but it doesn't have to be done in an aggressive manner.

It's good for wolves to have quiet people around; not to have anyone who "presses them against the wall" (if you get my meaning), so I think we should take a closer look on those who voted loud people. Those are:
Eonwe - LMP
and Valesse, Valier & Naria - Nogrod.
Of course they all explained why they voted for the one they voted, but you can always make reasons afterwards and cover the real reasons. Was Eonwe's as random as he let us believe? Why did he change tactics today totally abandoning his previous tactics (in his post #142)?

Some people have accused me today because of my vote. I honestly ask you: if I were a wolf, why would I want to be more connected to THE Ka than I already was (=she voted me)? Wouldn't I want not to be connected to her in any way? I personally think that the wolves would try to avoid being connected with their fellow WWs. Maybe later on, when there's less people left, they would take contact on each other, but on first day, it would be totally unnecessary and unnecessarily dangerous for them. So in my logic it isn't sure that some wolf voted for THE Ka, though I don't say it's unprobable. Maybe the wolves just don't use same logic as I do. Besides, if I were a wolf, why would THE Ka have voted for me? I think it's too risky for a wolf to cast the first vote on fellow WW on the first day. She said she had flipped a coin, but surely she could have said it showed WQ if I happened to be her fellow WW?

I think the wolves are rather the non-bandwagoners than the bandwagoners; everyone who has played WW before knows that the bandwagoners get most analysis the next day.

Totally on a different matter - When I read Roa's analysis of myself, I realised I was quite nonsense-speaker; I said something and then said something totally on the contrary. It's just the thing that I'm not very good at deciding, and I rather write all the pros and cons I can make up on one matter rather than only writing a plain yes or no not caring to think about the another side of the matter.

[Thinlómien]

Analysing myself (the two latest posts) or, clearing up what I meant: It seems that I am very, very poor at deciding things. First I say: why does everyone we have clever wolves? and in the next post I am assuming that we have clever wolves. Forgive me for making all this confusion, but what I thought was that we shouldn't forget the option (however unprobable it were) that wolves can be stupid. Besides, there's much more analysing in what would clever wolves do than in what would stupid wolves do.

Okay, it seems I have to go now. I will be back before voting time, but don't expect me back soon...

[Anguirel]

One thing troubles me. You're all assuming we have clever wolves. What if we don't? What if the wolves are really stupid?

An interesting point, rather like one would imagine a clever wolf might say, m'dear...

Actually-as in my examination of the Nogrod movement-I have not ruled out a bumbling werewolf. But we have to be prepared for the worst as well-being strung up a gumtree by some maniacal brain. You and Nogrod, say, could be inviting us onto the dance-floor of decimation through your joint monopolisation of the arena. It is not an impossible scenario, as an unpublished scriptwriter wittier than I once wrote...

EDIT: Cross-posted with your customary schizophrenia in which you debunked your own point, and very well too...

[Thinlómien]

for some reason I'd thought Roa had started the movement, not LMP. Thanks for the clarification. Actually, it was Roa's theory but LMP started voting THE Ka, though he didn't do so because of Roa's theory, unlike other Ka-voters like me.

[Anguirel]

I think the wolves are rather the non-bandwagoners than the bandwagoners; everyone who has played WW before knows that the bandwagoners get most analysis the next day.

One of the shrewdest things you've said yet. If I were a gambler not a herald, I'd bet on one wolf in either THE Ka's lot or Nogrod's lot, and one going it alone, rather like me.

Of course, it rather depends on a number of outside factors, such as experience and strategy. And the most experienced wolves won't necessarily shun bandwagoning. I've seen an entire team of veteran wolves cling to a bandwagon to protect one of their number in my time...

[JennyHallu]

But I would also like to point out, that someone not posting at all is basically not playing the game. So, at some point at least, I would be ready to leave them be and just ignore them, if we just have anything more sensible to vote. For if someone turns out to be a wolf without posting anything, S/he has not played a fair game and is a moral loser, which I think is the worst kind of losing there is. So then, no problem, even if are dead after all this: we have had a good game which could be called undecided (if someone really wants a verdict). And the cheater would have to carry the guilt.

Nogrod, I have two points.

A) Quietness is not necessarily cheating. It is one strategy among many, and it doesn't make her any safer. And, as far as we know, WQ may not have even realized the game has started.

I don't think there is any reason for ad-hominem attacks such as calling a quiet player a "moral loser", or referring to an error as a "lie" (with all the negative connotations therein) without any evidence to prove or disprove whether it was deliberate. As you pointed out earlier, this is, in the end, just a game. You claim to have little patience with rhetoric, so please tone down your own.

B) Your first several posts were urging us to 'put pressure' on the quiet players, even within a few hours of the start of the Day. Now you advise we ignore the quiet? I am confused as to what, exactly, your stance on the issue is?


Thinlo, I believe your contradictions were due more to a stream-of-consciousness writing style, and general boredom. While Roa makes good points (I really appreciate her analysis of the players), my impression of you is generally innocent.

Edit: spelling error.

[Eonwe]

If I were a gambler not a herald, I'd bet on one wolf in either THE Ka's lot or Nogrod's lot, and one going it alone, rather like me.

I agree. Though I think Lommy is in teh clear. She's right, there is too much connecting with THE Ka for it to be worthwile for a wolf. Though, of course, that could just be the way she wants us to belive. NOTE: I thought of this last night, and am not just reiterating what Lommy said herself, that would not be good evidence, now would it?

Lommy, you ask:

Of course they all explained why they voted for the one they voted, but you can always make reasons afterwards and cover the real reasons. Was Eonwe's as random as he let us believe? Why did he change tactics today totally abandoning his previous tactics (in his post #142)?

If you read the post you will find I answered this: There is no evidence on day one for me to make an educated guess. As the game porgresses, there is more and more evidece, hence more and more education, hence better and better votes. I'm not going to vote randomly when I suspect someone, but I can't vote pointedly when I cannot suspect anyone. Does that make sense?

[Gil-Galad]

this is my only time to vote

++JennyHallu


i will explain my reasons when i return

[Nogrod]

Amid washing the dishes and cooking I just checked the situation, and must just shortly comment on this.

[QUOTE=JennyHallu]Nogrod, I have two points.

A) Quietness is not necessarily cheating. It is one strategy among many, and it doesn't make her any safer. And, as far as we know, WQ may not have even realized the game has started.

No it's not necessarily cheating. I totally agree. And WQ might be anywhere or know anything or not. We just don't know. But I strongly disagree with you about it being a strategy among many. I call it "not playing". Figure a game where all the players adopt this "strategy" of yours! There wouldn't be a game at all! Those who willfully do not post anything are just hang-arounds, parasites one could call them: using those who really play to their own advantage. People who eat from the pile the others gather. People can do so, I know, but the moral side of it is another thing. Real life hindrances are understandable, sure, and another thing. (Although one should consider beforehand, whether s/he is actually having the time to really play when getting involved!)

I don't think there is any reason for ad-hominem attacks such as calling a quiet player a "moral loser", or referring to an error as a "lie" (with all the negative connotations therein) without any evidence to prove or disprove whether it was deliberate. As you pointed out earlier, this is, in the end, just a game. You claim to have little patience with rhetoric, so please tone down your own.

Ad hominem means accusing the personal properties or characteristics of the one you are talking with / about... :)

But seriously. Those two examples by you do not belong to the same category of things. First. Someone who is a wolf, and cheats all people by staying absolutely quiet, is not plaing fairly. And a win achieved by that tactics I would call very unmoral indeed! (Think of it: three wolves, two nonposters, one very careful post/aDay type. While the villagers realize the situation after 3-4-5 innocent lynches + nightly killings, it's too late already. You call that fair game, good game, or morally plausible tactics, when it comes to playing with each other - meaning, trusting each other to play fairly eg. giving others a chance?)
To refer to error as a lie is strong rhetoric indeed, but on the other hand claiming lie to be an error is the same as well. To this instant we don't have but your word and my word. I can confess, I have used rhetorics (to have a reaction from you), but can you confess yours? :D

B) Your first several posts were urging us to 'put pressure' on the quiet players, even within a few hours of the start of the Day. Now you advise we ignore the quiet? I am confused as to what, exactly, your stance on the issue is?

Please!!! I thought we were over this already! Didn't I say, that in the beginning it would be good tactics to voice an intention to go for the quiet: not to actually kill someone to begin with, but to make the wolves talk!!! If a wolf "knows", that the quiet are suspected s/he starts posting! And that's what we want: posting wolves who could thence make slips etc.!!! So kind of wrenching them away of "your strategy"! It's totally different thing, who we should try to lynch in the evening!

But what comes to this day's situation, it's a bit different already. We already start to have a picture of this mess - albeit a dim one. And please, I said we should ignore them at some point,if we just have anything more sensible to vote.

What you seem not to have understood, is my point, that if the wolves are playing unfair game, we should ignore them (as well as quiet innocents). That way we might lose the game, but we would have played a fair game. So all the moral glory for us, and the shame to those who played without the spirit of playing and sharing the game!

Oh my, how I can't even make a little comment short! :rolleyes:

[Nogrod]

this is my only time to vote

++JennyHallu


i will explain my reasons when i return

Jenny! Your "strategy" seems to be biting you. :(


This is bad. Not fun gaming at all.

Even with that i will explain my reasons when i return attached...

[Anguirel]

What you seem not to have understood, is my point, that if the wolves are playing unfair game, we should ignore them (as well as quiet innocents). That way we might lose the game, but we would have played a fair game. So all the moral glory for us, and the shame to those who played without the spirit of playing and sharing the game!


No, that sort of passive aggression doesn't work. A victorious wolf is a creature without guilt.

If we suspect someone-quiet or loud-of being a traitor, we should slay them. And that's the end of that.

If you like we can adopt a seriously heavy-handed and risky, but undoubtedly amusing, approach and double-lynch Gil-Galad and Witch_Queen. But I rather doubt the result of such an action will be unalloyed victory...

[JennyHallu]

I don't know what you're talking about, Nogrod. We have been given a single, unreasoned vote from someone who has posted only once in the game, and his comments seem to imply that he will not be back today.

If calm, reasoned, and courteous posts are not enough to convince people of my innocence when accused wildly, on the basis of an error, by one near-silent player and one all-too-vocal one, I don't know what is. I would respond to Gil's vote in my defense, but he has left me nothing to defend.

Nogrod has questioned my personal honesty, in the rudest terms, over and over again, and accepts no explanation for an error. He has even gone so far as to analyse the time between my posts in an attempt to prove I lied about a cross-posting. Yet he expects us to accept his wild and unpredictable accusations, and the terms in which he couches them.

Yes, Nogrod. This is a case of your word, versus my word. But frankly, your total denial of any chance of an error on my part, and an over-reaction on yours, comes across to me as very suspicious.

EDIT: Cross-posted with Anguirel. Really, I swear.

[Nogrod]

If you like we can adopt a seriously heavy-handed and risky, but undoubtedly amusing, approach and double-lynch Gil-Galad and Witch_Queen. But I rather doubt the result of such an action will be unalloyed victory...

That's just the opposite of what I would now want! I was saying more like ignore them (at some point of the game), not: dramatically lynch them at the instant!

Understanding others shouldn't be this difficult... :confused:

But really about Gil's vote + message. If his bases for his vote are very intricate and subtle - and he's in a hurry - one could understand the "i'll explain later" -thing. But I would have liked to see even one word of reason, why is he just voting and leaving - and has not been posting practically anything to this moment.

X-posted with Jenny

[Nogrod]

[QUOTE=JennyHallu]I don't know what you're talking about, Nogrod. We have been given a single, unreasoned vote from someone who has posted only once in the game, and his comments seem to imply that he will not be back today.

If calm, reasoned, and courteous posts are not enough to convince people of my innocence when accused wildly, on the basis of an error, by one near-silent player and one all-too-vocal one, I don't know what is. I would respond to Gil's vote in my defense, but he has left me nothing to defend.

I'm about totally agreeing with you on this Jenny! I do think that vote by Gil was unfair and bad gaming! I do not think you earned that vote! I only took on joking because you had just earlier defended that kind of gaming (that Gil plays) as a strategy as good as any...

Nogrod has questioned my personal honesty, in the rudest terms, over and over again, and accepts no explanation for an error. He has even gone so far as to analyse the time between my posts in an attempt to prove I lied about a cross-posting. Yet he expects us to accept his wild and unpredictable accusations, and the terms in which he couches them.

Yes, Nogrod. This is a case of your word, versus my word. But frankly, your total denial of any chance of an error on my part, and an over-reaction on yours, comes across to me as very suspicious.

I thought that I was the one who was defined the uptight one here...

I have not refused anything so far. I've just said, that in the end there's just one's word. And I guess that's what this game is about, seeing, who trusts who's word. I do not boast to know, what do you really think - as I think you can't boast on my thoughts. I think it is totally possible that you have not lied a bit. It's probably even more probable, judging the situation at the moment.

And. I've not demanded anyone to "accept my accusations". I've told this already. I want to see, where there are little discrepancies, possible falsehoods etc. and what could be made out of them + show them to everyone to make their own judgements about them.

I'm not accusing you Jenny! Try to understand!!! At this stage I couldn't accuse anyone. I might suspect Valier and Naria, but of the first I haven't anything solid, and with the other I'm coming to suspect her less and less...

But your post really got me thinking. Do I express myself so differently than you, that you all really can't see what I'm doing? I'll have to think about this, and would really like to hear some comments. Or then you just don't read my posts...

[Anguirel]

I see what you've been doing, and I've tried desperately to dilute it.

Jenny has a rather cogent point that you use methods rather inquisitorial in intensity; and I must say that your frequent disclaimers exacerbate them.

Perhaps I'm a peculiar case, but every time I hear a phrase like "no offense" in this game, my hackles rise. Lord above, we're accusing each other of murder, impersonation and Arda knows what; insisting that we don't mean no trouble, guv'nor, is quite, quite redundant.

As for your bizarre approach to the quietness of some; you suggest ignoring them and pretending they aren't there, all to gain a point about sportsmanship. I was merely attempting to make an illogical case into a logical one; don't pretend they're not there, ensure they're not there by hanging the blighters. If you think about it, the two cases aren't so diverse; it's just that mine is active and yours passive. I don't like or trust passivity.

[Nogrod]

Anguirel, thanks for your response.

[QUOTE=Anguirel]Perhaps I'm a peculiar case, but every time I hear a phrase like "no offense" in this game, my hackles rise. Lord above, we're accusing each other of murder, impersonation and Arda knows what; insisting that we don't mean no trouble, guv'nor, is quite, quite redundant.

Sure we are. But at this stage we just shoot in the dark and see what comes down and what stays up. But I would use the word "accuse" on something more solid. Not to talk of "demanding to accept".

As for your bizarre approach to the quietness of some; you suggest ignoring them and pretending they aren't there, all to gain a point about sportsmanship. I was merely attempting to make an illogical case into a logical one; don't pretend they're not there, ensure they're not there by hanging the blighters. If you think about it, the two cases aren't so diverse; it's just that mine is active and yours passive. I don't like or trust passivity.

Well. Taking two quiet ones out by voting plays to the hands of the wolves, at least at the later stages of the game, and it is totally random - which surely suits the wolves. I wouldn't mind losing a game to a bad-sport.

Kitchen and RL human company awaits. I'll be back before the vote, hopefully with something about Valier. She hasn't appeared this day though. What might be the reason? Maybe timezones? Would have to check that too...

[Anguirel]

Largely to Nogrod but also to Thinlomien...I worry that the smaller fishes are intimidated by the vast leviathans of your posting they have to wade through.

For the good of us all, I would suggest a little more concision-and please no schizophrenia!-in order to ensure a more varied contribution tomorrow. I fear today we may have quite a few non-voters.

I myself will be voting two hours early for reasons related to that fearsome werewolf that goes by the name of Life.

[Roa_Aoife]

Some people have accused me today because of my vote. I honestly ask you: if I were a wolf, why would I want to be more connected to THE Ka than I already was (=she voted me)? Wouldn't I want not to be connected to her in any way? I personally think that the wolves would try to avoid being connected with their fellow WWs. Maybe later on, when there's less people left, they would take contact on each other, but on first day, it would be totally unnecessary and unnecessarily dangerous for them. So in my logic it isn't sure that some wolf voted for THE Ka, though I don't say it's unprobable. Maybe the wolves just don't use same logic as I do. Besides, if I were a wolf, why would THE Ka have voted for me? I think it's too risky for a wolf to cast the first vote on fellow WW on the first day. She said she had flipped a coin, but surely she could have said it showed WQ if I happened to be her fellow WW?

I can't be on long (I'm working) but I read this and had to reply. I find this argument interesting, since not so long ago there was a story about a wolf named Ang who voted for his fellow wolf named Thin on the very first day, and got her lynched. He thus avoided suspicion till the very last day. If Val ever comes on, she was there to see it.

Also, about the quiet ones- if someone does not post with in two days, they are not playing the game, and the great MOD-GOD of Awesomeness should remove that person. Not posting=not playing, unless one has given a reason in the other thread concerning one's absence. I think Val left one for herself, and I believe it says she'll return before the end of today. I don't think W_Q is intentionally not posting as a tactic, (I like to give my fellow players more credeit than that) but the fact remains she isn't playing. She could easily see the start date on the other thread, and if she signed up for it, she should take responsibility in checking it. If she thought this would happen, she shouldn't have joined.

[Valesse]

Thank you for everyone who has wished me a Happy Birthday! :D
Now for all of this Nogrod essay-writing and rhetoric-pointing garble. (And yes, I do find it very silly that I will be using quotes to start my points. Especially starting with: )

What is downright suspicious (on both moral and wolvish standards), is going to vote for someone, who's posts you haven't read -
Now you pointed out yourself that I posted, what? An hour and a half before call time? To be honest, I'm a very slow reader and even if I had wanted to I could not have read the ENTIRE mass of posts on Day one. I did, however, get to the first half (or there abouts) and found that your call to action on post #10 (which is your first, as you well know.) was rather like jumping the gun. So if by having a currently busy life (Which I did mention in the WWJr thread) I am suspicious.

- accusing that one with false grounds, while hiding one's own intents by rhetoric that one herself denies two sentences later!
How do you mean false grounds and hiding my own intent? I do believe you might like to take a job with a newspaper, as I have yet to enlighten anyone my intent in this woe-begotten village. That 'quickness' was in referance to how soon it was mentioned, and if I may say so an hour and a half before time is up is not soon to anything. I was pressed for time, whereas - by your page and a half to two page responses on four to six sentence posts - I'd say you are unfamiliar with.

Obviously right now I am not as pressed for time.

I know, that a detailed defence is overall susceptable. But in this instance - last 1½ hours bandwagon of three, with myself no possibility of answering, kind of justifies my analysis. And because one of these must be a wolf (my "hunch", this time... ), there could be something there.
I'm not trying to vindicate everyone in this bandwagon, because I also feel that its fishy. I had no intention of it being one at all, knowing that I was close to the (pun-roll, please) deadline, I assumed that I would probably be the last of two to vote. The fact that I mentioned that I was "just expressing my hunch" meant that I knew that my choice would not the the one lynched. And you weren't, now, were you?

So why is she clad in the mist of rhetoric (including downright lies!), and why the false accusations?
Lies? I see no lies. They are mere willow-wisps of your imagination. I'm sure that you are drastic. Right now I look a little drastic myself with this monsterous piece of literature et al. Just because it is my perception doesn't make it a lie.

Besides, this game is of perception and the corruption of it through alibi. Sure I could be making this whole bit up and just because, say, I don't like the letter N means that I'm going to bump you off instead of any hunch that I might have mentioned. (Though I am actually quite fond of the letter N.)

this is not like a birthday gift, but I'd like to mention, that I really am beginning to think, that you are the least suspicious one of the three of you...
Thank you. :p
But you're still my top suspect. : (

[Valesse]

I can't be on long (I'm working) but I read this and had to reply. I find this argument interesting, since not so long ago there was a story about a wolf named Ang who voted for his fellow wolf named Thin on the very first day, and got her lynched. He thus avoided suspicion till the very last day. If Val ever comes on, she was there to see it.

Also, about the quiet ones- if someone does not post with in two days, they are not playing the game, and the great MOD-GOD of Awesomeness should remove that person. Not posting=not playing, unless one has given a reason in the other thread concerning one's absence. I think Val left one for herself, and I believe it says she'll return before the end of today. . .
I did see it, and it is eerie, though I have my suspicions elsewhere at this time.

Yes, I did leave a note saying that I will be back for... well now. And I am! See? :p Though I might also be needing part of this weekend (parties are hard in the middle of the week.)

For the best of the game, and nothing personal against W_Q it is rather upsetting when someone does not post at all in the first two days of this game. I wonder if she is unable to get to a computer, or online? (Remembering that the Mod-god Sleepy himself was internet-less for a while, perhaps the same thing has happened to W_Q). If she is unable, then it doesn't do us very much good for her to be in the game, but if she does show up here soon I would like to hear the reason of her absence just as much as everyone else.

[Roa_Aoife]

(Remembering that the Mod-god Sleepy himself was internet-less for a while, perhaps the same thing has happened to W_Q).

I remember that too, but Sleepy was gracious enough to step down and give his chance of modding to Glirdan and Gil-galad, who did implement the no-posting rule. (That being that if someone fails to post in two days time, the are removed from the game.) If W_Q thought something would happen, she shouldn't have signed up. If it's an unforseen technical difficulty, then I understand the problems of that. But the fact remains she isn't playing, and should be removed.

[Holbytlass]

1.THE Ka - Thinlomien (Thin-1)
2. Holbytlass - Naria(Thin-1, Naria-1)
3. Eonwe - littlemanpoet(Thin-1, Naria-1, elempi-1)
4. littlemanpoet - THE Ka(Thin-1, Naria-1, elempi-1, TheKa-1)
5. Nogrod - Roa_Aoife (Thin-1, Naria-1, elempi-1, TheKa-1, Roa-1)
6. Roa_Aoife - THE Ka(Thin-1, Naria-1, elempi-1, TheKa-2, Roa-1)
7. Encaitare - THE Ka(Thin-1, Naria-1, elempi-1, TheKa-3, Roa-1)
8. Thinlomien - THE Ka(Thin-1, Naria-1, elempi-1, TheKa-4, Roa-1)
9. JennyHallu - THE Ka(Thin-1, Naria-1, elempi-1, TheKa-5, Roa-1)
10. Anguirel - Holbytlass(Thin-1, Naria-1, elempi-1, TheKa-5, Roa-1, Holby-1)
11. Valesse - Nogrod(Thin-1, Naria-1, elempi-1, TheKa-5, Roa-1, Holby-1, Nogrod-1)
12. Valier - Nogrod(Thin-1, Naria-1, elempi-1, TheKa-5, Roa-1, Holby-1, Nogrod-2)
13. Naria - Nogrod(Thin-1, Naria-1, elempi-1, TheKa-5, Roa-1, Holby-1, Nogrod-3)
No vote: Witch Queen, Gil-Galad

Don't find suspicious at this moment: Anguriel,Nogrod (despite the heated posts) and Roa_Aoife.

Valesse I'm leaning towards less suspicious 'cause at the time of her vote there were plenty of others to vote for if she were a wolf. Gil-Galad and WitchQueen I put in this group for now because I don't see wolves being this downright unvocal and bringing undo suspicion on themselves.

Naria I find a bit more suspicious because I was already more so and her "safe" bandwagon vote doesn't speak well for her right now. Thinlomien is here because of her voting position and there is the possibility that THEKa voted for a fellow wolf early on to establish seperating themselves, but then things took off on THEKa.

Eonwe and Valier mild suspicion, both their votes seem like safe "innocent villager doing their best" but could be clever timing. Enca is mildly suspected just cause of the voting placement.

I have not had a chance to go back and check to see if people had voted for who they thought were suspicious all along.

At this point: my main suspects are Naria and Thinlomien

[JennyHallu]

A two-days rule does give W_Q just under three hours to arrive and enter the game. I think this sounds reasonable--let's wait for some more villagers to chime in on the point, and perhaps appeal to Sleepy at the end of the Day.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but is Gil the only one to have voted today?

EDIT: xpost with Holby.

[Valier]

SOrry I'm so late at coming in but Rl has been busy.this Day is cOnfusing me! Ok so I agree that Witch_Queen should probably be lynched, I don't know if she has played before and might not know whats going on.But I am really leaning towards Nogrod again. He seems overly suspisious of the people who voted for him. His long winded posts are hard to read and the are always aggressive. I do not find this makes the game fun at all! I think we should lynch him now and get rid of our suspisions. If we don't I'm not sure I will ever get over my thoughts of him being a wolf. I don't see any cases that were brought up today as overly suspisious, but I will postpone my vote for now in case someone comes up with a better plan.:D

[Anguirel]

Well, I must vote about now, and I haven't really the time to mount such an impressive case as yesterday, hem hem...

But basically, the Lady Encaitare worries me. So quick to definitively analyse her own bandwagon (and to do it so well, too) thereby effortlessly sliding from the public gaze.

So little noted among the struggle that has dominated this long day-that is, Nogrod against the world.

Such a beautifully positioned vote.

If this only causes a few glances to shift momentarily in a fresh direction, I shall be glad.

++ENCAITARE

[Valesse]

My time toDay has basically ran out, so I will have to vote.

I do find Thin suspicious, but no so much that I will cast my vote against her. Rather, I will be keeping with yesterDay's vote for Nogrod because I am uncomfortable with his urgency (EI: the dynamic finger pointing).

It does bother me that he framed his reason why he is innocent about how those who voted for him did so in basically all the same ways (poor rhetoric, lying) which one might also be able to say about some of his essays. It seems wolfish to me to make an alibi based on blame other than addressing the reasons you were mentioned in the first place.

++ NOGROD

[Encaitare]

Writing as I read along, as usual.

A) Quietness is not necessarily cheating. It is one strategy among many, and it doesn't make her any safer. And, as far as we know, WQ may not have even realized the game has started.

I just checked WQ’s profile, and the last time she signed on was February 27th. Maybe she’s not a total Downs addict like some of us, but that’s quite a time not to sign on, especially knowing that a game was going to start soon.

Gil’s vote for Jenny is odd – not necessarily even the recipient of the vote, but in the fact that he doesn’t say a word and then jumps in with a vote, saying he will explain later. Maybe he’s had a lot of RL conflicts, but I’d like more to back up the vote, and his tone implies that he won’t be back toDay.

Right now I am most suspicious of Valesse (though I am glad she has finally posted, her posts were largely self-defense), Gil-Galad (for his hasty and as of yet unexplained vote), and Valier (because her posts have very little susbstance to them).

I shall vote for

++Valier

because her posts largely seem to echo what others say (going along with the Nogrod suspicion), and aren’t particularly helpful. She could be a wolf just coasting and hoping to keep a low profile by acting confused. Tomorrow, I shall pay special attention to WQ and Gil.

[Anguirel]

Oh, by the way, I agree with the general view that Witch_Queen should be automatically slaughtered at the end of toDay...particularly in view of Enca's discovery.

[Roa_Aoife]

Ka Analysis
1st post – Calls for discussion
2nd – Suspicious of Thin and W_Q, not suspicious of Valesse, Jenny, and Roa, votes Thin.

It’s almost a shame that we got her so soon. She doesn’t leave much of a trail to follow. I notice that the only people mentioned are female. She said that Jenny, Val, and I escape suspicion for posting, but she neglects to mention Ang, Naria, Eonwe, LMP, Nogrod, Valier, Enca, Holbytlass, and Gil-galad. The people who posted after her first post and weren’t mentioned were Naria, LMP, Valier, Nogrod, and Ang. As I said, she left little trail. Sleepy may have sold her out so to speak, but she was clever in her dealings.

I honestly don't think Nogrod is being wolfish. I thinks he's just being himself. This is more like his general behavior than anything else. I think Ang may be on to something, as the analysis I provided earlier may show you. I still don't know however. Everything's very iffy right now.

Edit:Cross posted with Enca and Ang. I also think W_Q should be thrown out for non-participation.

[Valier]

because her posts largely seem to echo what others say (going along with the Nogrod suspicion), and aren’t particularly helpful.

Actually to point it out I was the first one to have suspisions of Nogrod.I just got beaten to the first vote for him.

Right now I am most suspicious of Valesse (though I am glad she has finally posted, her posts were largely self-defense), Gil-Galad (for his hasty and as of yet unexplained vote), and Valier (because her posts have very little susbstance to them).
How come if you are most suspisious of Valesse do you vote for me?

aLso I have had prOblems in other games for my"little substance posts" I am always like this! I find it hard some times to analysis these huge posts. I do try though and I would like to point out that in all my past liVes I was always on the right trail when I followEd my gut. I find it easier as the days go by to post with More substancE.:D

[Roa_Aoife]

I was curious and decided to do this one on my own.

Valier Analysis
Day 1
1st post - Opening nonsense post
2nd – Questions LMP’s suspicions, throws out some nonsense accusations of her own.
3rd – Defends accent, thinks Sleepy’s posts won’t be that helpful. Says suspicions will be random.
4th – Distrust Nogrod. Doesn’t want to lynch Thin.
5th – Thinks a traitor would hide in the open, trusts no one, gut feeling about Nogrod.
6th – Doesn’t think Sleepy would put in too much info for today.
7th – Votes Nogrod. Looks at Sleepy’s writings.

Day 2
1st post – Summarizes Ka’s posting, Still suspects Nogrod
2nd – Agrees in lynching W_Q. Still leaning towards Nogrod.
3rd – Defends against vote and accusation by Enca

[Valier]

Sounds right Roa! That is all I've done in a nut shell! I know I just want to lynch Nogrod! If he is an Ordo or a gifted I guess I will have some 'splainin to do.:p

[Roa_Aoife]

Valier, if anything, stays consistent in her attempts to get Nogrod lynched. I find it interesting that she thinks traitors would hide in the open, but looks at Nogrod rather than Thin. Why was that?

[Holbytlass]

I won't be back so I vote

++Thinlomien

Also agree to taking out Witch_Queen for nonparticipating.

[Valier]

Valier, if anything, stays consistent in her attempts to get Nogrod lynched. I find it interesting that she thinks traitors would hide in the open, but looks at Nogrod rather than Thin. Why was that?


uuumm I guess to tell the truth did not want Thinlo to go on the first day...every game I have played with her she dies so quick Ordo or not. So I guess I wanted to keep her around for one more day and then if a good case arose against her I would look at her then.

[Roa_Aoife]

And just so we all know:

The vote stands

Jenny- Gil-galad
Enca – Ang
Nogrod – Val
Valier – Enca
Thin – Holby

[Roa_Aoife]

I find I must be leaving for now. Thin and Valier are at the top of my suspicions, though I'm still not certain. So for the time being,

++Valier

EDIT: I won't be posting for the remainder of the day.

[Valier]

why is it that in every game I play people comment on my lack of good posts, then when I try to help the village out, I always get a bunch of votes for me with no good reasOns behind them?:confused:

[Nogrod]

Now some really short reply's (this computer is going to be in use of another gamer in just a while) - I'll leave my vote, still, until the end.

Not quoting or anything now.

Valesse. Don't you worry. You clearly haven't read what I have written, but no offence taken (well, a little bit nasty one that vote you gave me, but anyhow). You do what you see best to do. That's all. I'm not suspecting you anymore (at least more than anyone other). Check also the end-part of my post #165.

But to Valier's, and others interest, notice, a small piece I wrote earlier #143, 148 or something...

Accusatory? Quick to jump to conclusions?
Not at all! What I'm trying to do, is to find hints, possibilities, oddities, revealing rhetoric, deceptions, lies etc. and try to see, whether I could build anything up from them. Then I try to point these out for everyone to see and look for themselves. What other way we villagers can work against the wolves?

Please pay heed to this. I'm working here, not running riot! My style may be a bit aggressive, but that's also a way to get those wolves up and on defence! I have very readily admitted any basic misunderstandments (? - broken English) and apologized.

Sorry. That's my style. I just hope, no-one is taking this in too personal level (I had those doubts this evening, and am truly sorry about anything so badly misunderstood: I'm playing a game, not attacking RL persons!)

So: my Really short reply... :(

[Naria]

I am agreeing with everyone about Sleepy taking WQ off of the player's list. She has yet to post and if it is RL things that have come up, she should have at least put it on the wwj thread. But just in case this plea does not work I will vote:


++Witch-Queen


I have other suspicions but will take a closer look at their posts after game time. Hopefully, I will be a little more enlightened by the third DAY.

[JennyHallu]

Ang, I must confess your vote confuses me. I'll admit that your argument is as valid as some others put forward today, but you seem to be basing it on your feeling that Enca's analysis was concise and thorough.

Not seeing a big basis for suspicion there. I am not dismissing Anguirel as a suspect, but am inclined to believe him innocent. I would, however, dearly love to see a more thorough explanation for your vote.

I have also noticed that not one of us has looked at Roa, but have accepted her extensive analyses at face value. I don't know if this is a problem or not, but I don't want to let a wolf slip by due to complacency. Eonwe is also getting very little attention.

Gil's silence and reason-less vote are disturbing, and I hope he is able to explain himself tomorrow.

Nogrod, however, is frustrating to deal with, posts often and loudly, and accuses people of wolvishness over the barest nothings. I would like to think he is innocent, but it would be easy for a wolf to hide in a persona so loud and so paranoid the villagers dismiss him.

If you are innocent, Nogrod, I am sorry, but you have been obscuring every issue.

++Nogrod

[Valier]

Votes so far

Nogrod=2
Jenny=1
Enca=1
Thinlo=1
Valier= 2
W_Q=1

5 votes left including the Witch_Queen

[Thinlómien]

I can't be on long (I'm working) but I read this and had to reply. I find this argument interesting, since not so long ago there was a story about a wolf named Ang who voted for his fellow wolf named Thin on the very first day, and got her lynched. He thus avoided suspicion till the very last day. If Val ever comes on, she was there to see it. I don't deny this scenario! I know it happened. But Anguirel's vote wasn't the first one! I had many votes already, and it was pretty certain that I was going to be lynched. There's a big difference. Ang didn't spot me from all people and start voting for me. I hope you understand my logic.

I see I'm accused a lot because of my babbling yesterday and the bandwagoning. I'm sorry if the babbling irritated you, but I think it's much better than Gil-like hiding. I don't want to be silent just for the reason I would be suspected if I wasn't! And should I have voted someone else than THE Ka just to be less suspicious, regardless of that I believed in Roa's theory about her wolvishness? Sorry, comrades, but I don't understand.

And as for my suspicions, I really don't have an idea! Strangely, it was easier yesterday. My vote might be quite random, if I won't get any good ideas when rereading the posts.

[Nogrod]

Well fellow-villagers.

It's 2-2 between me and Valier.

Valier will surely vote for me - she's been counting on it from the first day. As a self-defence - and she being my first suspect - I will naturally vote back. With double lynchings, it will be both of us off with three votes.

Think about your decisions...

Good luck, everyone. My computer now changing hand once again.

++ Valier

[Thinlómien]

Okay, if Valier's gonna vote Nogrod as he predicted, the it's me and Eonwe there to decide, will we agree the double-lynching. If they're both (Valier and Nogrod) innocents or gifteds, it's a big loss to the village. So, Eonwe, what do you say? I don't want to make the decision alone if it's not necessary. I don't believe that both Valier and Nogrod are wolves, so in my opinion it doesn't make sense to lynch them both, but now I'm wondering which one is more probably a wolf. Eonwe, I think I need your co-operation.

[Valier]

Valier will surely vote for me - she's been counting on it from the first day. As a self-defence - and she being my first suspect


I have definately not been couting on this as you say!!!!! This is what I mean when I say you eerk me!!! How do you know??? I will vote for you eventually as I planned to today but, I ASSURE you I am no wolf!!!!!! And I don't need a self-defence against you!!!!

[Thinlómien]

I just realise it might be triple lynch (WQ included) today! If we don't catch wolves, that's definitely bad!

[Valier]

Please voters who's left, don't leave this as a triple lynch!!!! I will vote Nogrod because I just gotta know!!!! P.S the wolf is not me!!!


++Nogrod

[Thinlómien]

Ok. This is my decision. I won't let the village lynch three people one day. It's too much profit for the wolves.

++Valier

I have no idea whether she's a wolf or not. To me, Nogrod is as suspicious as she is. The only reason I vote for her is just that I believe if Nogrod's innocent he will contribute much more to the village than innocent-Valier would. Sorry, Valier, but he has been making more insightful posts than you have. And thanks for compassion :).

[Valier]

Well....that is horrible.....And to think I wanted to keep you around another day Thinlo........Bad choice maybe? anyways farewell oh cruel world!!!!:(

Edit: Yes I am bitter!!! I did not want to go yet!:(

[Thinlómien]

Valier, I hope you're a wolf.
Nogrod, I hope you're innocent or gifted.

Otherwise, I've just made a big and maybe fatal mistake.

EDIT: cross-posted with Valier

[Thinlómien]

Well....that is horrible.....And to think I wanted to keep you around another day Thinlo........Bad choice maybe? anyways farewell oh cruel world!!!!:(

Edit: Yes I am bitter!!! I did not want to go yet!:(
I'm very sorry, my-dear-what-ever-you-are. Life is making choices.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Voting is now closed, people who voted for Valier and Naria, since you voted for Witch_Queen expect your red marks soon.
And once again, Gifteds please note that since 13 people started this day be careful what you do tonight.

[Sleepy Ranger]

And so it was that the thirteen survivors had decided that Valier would be headed to her death at the end of this day. But then just as it had been the night before they all dropped one at a time. They awoke to the loud screams of insanity coming from the direction of the fountain. Upon arriving there they saw Witch_Queen pointing at something in front of the fountain and jumping up and down, was that terror in her eyes? No it was the pure joy of insanity. Valier stood on her head where Witch_Queen was pointing. "G...guys... help... th..they said if I move I'll die! I don't want to die! HELP ME!" She looked ready to burst into tears but the villagers remained un-moving.

Naria seemed moved enough to help her, in fact she began to take a few steps forward only to get pulled back by Thinlomien, "She is our foe you fool, do not go near her, she will strike if you do." hissed Thinlomien. "G..guys please I...I can't stand like this much longer." stammered Valier. "You can not fool us wolf! We know what you are!" Shouted Thinlomien, this was it, Valier snapped as tears began to flow from her fear-worn eyes she began to fall forwards. "NO!" Naria let out a cry stumbling forward but it was too late Valier's back snapped in half and her head met her feet. She looked at the people in front of her with wide eyes as blood began to run out of her eyes, the ground serving as the goblet for the fountain.

The fear of death had ended whatever accent Valier had ever used but as she wept tears she uttered one final word, "Vhy?" and then it was all over. The vampiric fountain had stolen all her blood and then all of a sudden Witch_Queen let out a scream, everyone turned to her and watched in shock as she began to vomit blood. It seemed to go on forever causing JennyHallu to throw up (luckily it wasn't blood in her case) but finally all of Witch_Queen's blood had been drunk by the fountain and her lifeless body fell to the ground.

All of a sudden the fountain began to rumble, the eleven left alive watched on in fear as the blood began to rise as a pillar, "Time to earn your stripes my young ones!" said the bodiless voice. The fountain spat a drop of blood onto Naria's cheek, it burned into her skin forming a red mark. She clutched her cheek in pain. The fountain then spat out drops at Encaitare, Roa_Aoife, Nogrod and Thinlomien. Each of them re-acted the same way Naria had as the blood embedded itself into their cheek. Grimacing through the pain Naria looked hard at Thinlomien, "You fool!" she muttered sending a hard punch to her newly recieved wound causing her to faint. Naria just stood there looking at the unconscious Thinlomien. Today they had killed two innocents.

Alive

JennyHallu - The friendly neighborhood nutcase waving a doomsday sign around
Roa_Aoife(i) - Babysitter, the blonde, large chested one that always runs upstairs when she should be running out of the house
Nogrod(i) - Post-Structuralist musician
Thinlomien(i) - Sculpter specialiazing in making nightmarish birds.
Naria(i) - Butcher
Gil-Galad - Bell Ringer
Anguirel - Herald at arms
Eonwe - Gold Miner
Valesse - Poultry gender analysist
Holbytlass - Governess
Encaitare(i) - a scientist who specializes in analyzing small pebbles and other silly things

Dead

Sleepy Ranger (mod) - Impaled on a cupid's arrow with his head nearly cut off.
THE Ka (werewolf) - Moreish Pavlovian Psychologist - Had her legs cut off.
Littlemanpoet (innocent) - Traveling minstrel/bard - Had an eye gouged out and his hair ripped off.
Valier (innocent) - Cruel Duchess - Had her back snapped and wept tears of blood till death.
Witch_Queen (innocent) - Homeless guy - Died due to loss of too much blood through vomitting.

Seer, wolves, hunter and ranger, you know what you have to do.

[Sleepy Ranger]

The ten who survived the night awoke and looked at the grim scene at the fountain. Valier and Witch_Queen were no longer around and now in there place lay Holbytlass, her eyes were now empty sockets and stomach carved open, beside her lay various different organs pulled out from her. On her lap lay her brain. Near her lay tiny flecks of something, upon closer inspection it was found to be her eyes. Pinned into her brain was a note, "Seer" it read. As the rest she too had no blood in her, the fountain seemed to be smiling at them.

The villagers looked at each other, the fountain seemed to be the cause of all their troubles. This one fountain, this one bloody fountain. The voice of their host spoke up, "Jolly good you've killed the seer! Lets see who you kill today, I really can't wait! I mean look some of you now bear the marks of death! Lovely, lovely, lovelah!" The ten survivors looked at each other, it would be a long day and an even longer night.

Alive

JennyHallu - The friendly neighborhood nutcase waving a doomsday sign around
Roa_Aoife(i) - Babysitter, the blonde, large chested one that always runs upstairs when she should be running out of the house
Nogrod(i) - Post-Structuralist musician
Thinlomien(i) - Sculpter specialiazing in making nightmarish birds.
Naria(i) - Butcher
Gil-Galad - Bell Ringer
Anguirel - Herald at arms
Eonwe - Gold Miner
Valesse - Poultry gender analysist
Encaitare(i) - a scientist who specializes in analyzing small pebbles and other silly things

Dead

Sleepy Ranger (mod) - Impaled on a cupid's arrow with his head nearly cut off.
THE Ka (werewolf) - Moreish Pavlovian Psychologist - Had her legs cut off.
Littlemanpoet (innocent) - Traveling minstrel/bard - Had an eye gouged out and his hair ripped off.
Valier (innocent) - Cruel Duchess - Had her back snapped and wept tears of blood till death.
Witch_Queen (innocent) - Homeless guy - Died due to loss of too much blood through vomitting.
Holbytlass (seer) - Governess

---
Sorry for starting late, I got held up.

[Anguirel]

Well, this will be the only post I'll be able to make this evening.

Holby does have bad luck as a Seer, poor thing.

I knew she was one of the Seers because of a hint she slipped me while mocking my accusation of her on the second morning.

She said "I should throw an anvil at you, Ang". This was a clear reference to me to a time long ago when one of my ancestors, a blacksmith (hence the anvil hint), accused Holbytlass not knowing she was the Seer. I realised that history was repeating itself and Holby must be one of the Seers.

I hinted that I'd understood before backing off.

If you think this admission makes me look suspicious, frankly I agree with you, and I'd vote for me in the blink of an eye were I not me, but that's life...and death.

[Anguirel]

One last point before I rush off-this implicates Encaitare as well as me. She was in the village where I was a blacksmith and might have been able to decode the hint.

[Thinlómien]

Now this is no good for the village. Two innocents and the seer dead.

I really hope Nogrod's not a wolf. Because I saved him last Day. I've been agonizing over this (whether he's a wolf or not) the whole RL day. I guess my fate is entwined with his; if he's a wolf and he is lynched, I will be surely lynched the next day for saving a wolf. :rolleyes:
I am really sorry Valier. (I hope your ghost can hear me...)

What do you guys/gals think about the red marks? I found them pretty strange, I can see no logic unless... Could it be that they are the five ordos? Or the gifteds and the wolves? Or are they just random confusion-creators?

An Ang... I don't know what are you trying to say with that. In what post did Holby say she wants to throw an anvil on you?

[Roa_Aoife]

If you think this admission makes me look suspicious, frankly I agree with you, and I'd vote for me in the blink of an eye were I not me, but that's life...and death.

I don't know- there was a list that Holby posted somewhere (I can't find it yet) of people she didn't suspect. I think your name was on it. I remember because my name and Nogrods was on it too, and I thought it was odd at the time because Nogrod was acting fairly suspicious.

EDIT: Cross posted with Thin. I think the red marks are for voting for the lynched innocents.

[Nogrod]

What do you guys/gals think about the red marks? I found them pretty strange, I can see no logic unless... Could it be that they are the five ordos? Or the gifteds and the wolves? Or are they just random confusion-creators?


Both first ones would sound in some sense too obvious, but then again, there would in that case still be nastily a choice to make... So it might be. The nastiness resides of course in the fact, that all of us know, which one of them is the right one, but the wolves will deny it... and then we kill the wolves, because they are the only ones to deny the facts... hmmm.... this requires some thinking. It has to be something different, I suppose.

Holby's archives surely demand our attention now, and I think it would be useful for more than one of us to see them through. Four eyes can see more than two, and six even more.

I'll be in RL for some hours, but will be back in couple of hours time...

EDIT: X-posted with Roa

[Roa_Aoife]

Found it. It's this post. (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=450564&postcount=173)

Don't find suspicious at this moment: Anguriel,Nogrod (despite the heated posts) and Roa_Aoife.

This was posted on Day 2, so that would be two nights of dreaming, and her fellow seer. (Nogrod if you're the seer again, I'll die laughing.)

[Thinlómien]

The nastiness resides of course in the fact, that all of us know, which one of them is the right one, but the wolves will deny it... and then we kill the wolves, because they are the only ones to deny the facts... hmmm....
I guess it would go to that both the gifteds and the wolves would be claiming "I'm the ranger"-kind of things and it would be a nasty war over the other group's trust.

But probably no need to speculate, since I do believe Roa made up the correct answer, if the facts are correct. I don't have time to check, I hope someone else checks it, if Roa hasn't done that already.

Me leaves now. I will be back toDay, but no idea when. Probably many hours before the voting time.

EDIT: cross-posted with Roa_Aoife

[Encaitare]

One last point before I rush off-this implicates Encaitare as well as me. She was in the village where I was a blacksmith and might have been able to decode the hint.

I didn't catch that, actually. I thought it was just her joking around. I don't think that fact would condemn you, though, as a wolf-Anguirel would have not acknowledged it, hoping it would go unnoticed.

Holby didn't post much, but here is a summary of all her posts:

DAY 1

16 – Checks in.
24 – Writes that the most vocal get the highest suspicion and are lynched
25 – Joking reply to something Anguirel said about poetry.
51 – Says that Valier, Jenny, and Naria are particularly concerned about looking at quiet villagers. Votes for Naria.

DAY 2

110 – Mourns LMP, thinks at least one wolf voted for Ka. Says she ought to whack Anguirel with an anvil.
173 – Lists in detail who voted for whom. Does not suspect Anguirel, Nogrod, and Roa (is pretty certain they're innocent). Valesse, Gil-Galad, and Witch_Queen are also not suspected at this time. Mildly suspects Eonwe, Valier, and Encaitare all due to voting placement. Top suspects are Naria (due to previous suspicion and “safe bandwagon vote”) and Thinlomien (because of voting position and the possibility that Ka voted for her to separate them).
185 – Votes for Thinlomien, and agrees that Witch_Queen should be taken out for not participating.

Jenny is the only person who is not mentioned, which is odd. Perhaps Holby just forgot about her?

So her suspicion can be said to be in this order:
1. Thinlomien
2. Naria
3. Eonwe, Valier, Encaitare
4. Valesse, Gil-Galad, Witch_Queen
5. Anguirel, Nogrod, Roa_Aoife

Now, she only got two dreams, I believe. Did she hit the mark with Thinlomien or Naria? Or maybe she dreamed of someone towards the bottom of the list and was therefore assured of their innocence. It's possible, even likely, that she dreamed of Anguirel and found out that he was innocent, and therefore felt safe dropping the anvil hint. Also, she wrote that she thought at least one wolf voted for Ka; the only person she highly suspects who voted for Ka is Thinlomien. Perhaps she dreamed that Lommy was a wolf?

(On a side note, one gains a red mark after voting for an innocent whom the villagers have killed.)

[Roa_Aoife]

Also, she wrote that she thought at least one wolf voted for Ka; the only person she highly suspects who voted for Ka is Thinlomien. Perhaps she dreamed that Lommy was a wolf?

I don't think so Enca. In the game of WW, one can only be certain of someone else's innocense if one is a wolf or a seer who dreams about them. I think either Ang or Nogrod is the other seer, and they dreamed about me and whichever one isn't the seer. I don't think she would have posted that she didn't find us suspicious otherwise.

[Encaitare]

I apologize, Roa, for I believe I just phrased something poorly.

This is from Holby's post #173:

Don't find suspicious at this moment: Anguriel,Nogrod (despite the heated posts) and Roa_Aoife.

Valesse I'm leaning towards less suspicious 'cause at the time of her vote there were plenty of others to vote for if she were a wolf. Gil-Galad and WitchQueen I put in this group for now because I don't see wolves being this downright unvocal and bringing undo suspicion on themselves.

Whereas I wrote in summary:

Does not suspect Anguirel, Nogrod, and Roa (is pretty certain they're innocent). Valesse, Gil-Galad, and Witch_Queen are also not suspected at this time.

Nowhere did she say she was "certain" of anyone's innocence, but I used that phrase to differentiate between not finding someone suspicious, as with the first group, and finding someone "less suspicious," as with the second group. My bad. It is likely that the other Seer is in the first group, though.

[Roa_Aoife]

Nowhere did she say she was "certain" of anyone's innocence, but I used that phrase to differentiate between not finding someone suspicious, as with the first group, and finding someone "less suspicious," as with the second group. My bad. It is likely that the other Seer is in the first group, though.

Thank you for clarifying. I'm still not so sure I agree with you though. Since Holby was the seer, she knew that list would be looked at in event of her death. I think she left the list of "not found suspicious" on purpose, to let us know what she knew.

[Anguirel]

Roa, whether intentionally or not, you're being injudicious in constantly bringing up the other Seer as part of Holby's list of innocents. You are possibly narrowing down the wolvish to kill list.

However, Holby is a shrewd and secretive player and would not necessarily have risked her fellow Seer's life by listing them as innocent. I say we leave aside the whole Seer question. That's not your business, if you're innocent.

And I wouldn't mind surviving to the end for once, so I'd rather the wolves weren't (mistakenly or not) drawn to me by your bumbling identifications like moths to a flame.

I still suspect Enca and will probably vote for her in the morning. We have too much of a past in common.

The red marks are clearly bestowed on those who lynch innocents. That's the best innovation Sleepy's come up with yet, methinks. I wonder whether it will make us more or less lynch-happy, or not change much.

[Eonwe]

I also suspect Enca, because of her voting for THE Ka. Still. And if you already suspect her, the analysis of Holby is further fuel for the fire: it is easy to believe that she is twisting Holby's evidence in her wolfish favor.

As for me, I'm sorry I didn't vote yesterDay. Got caught up in RL activities, and it slipped my mind. But rest assured, I would have voted Enca.

[Nogrod]

So it's come to this.

Now Holby's list of "don't find suspicious" is Anguirel, Roa and me. This surely will be the wolves' killing list as well. So let's be careful with this, and try to eliminate one wolf today.

He had only two dreams, so at best only one of us is a hunch (or better grounded belief). That regrettably has some consequences about her suspicious-list. If she knew one wolf, he only knew one innocent. This is going to be tough!

Why I say so, is that my own hunches seem to be similar with Holby. I can't see Roa as a wolf, as she was the one to get us the real reason, why THE Ka was the wolf. From the others, Anguirel seems one of the least suspicious, although I must admit this being a hunch too.

Then. I was already letting off my suspicion over Naria (interpreting her action on the basis of purely "outside the game" dislikes - and I guess she could build a quite believable case on this). But as I reread some of the posts from the whole history of the game, I found one interesting case.

At post #191 Naria voted for WQ! Holby suspected Naria to begin with, on grounds of a "safe vote", and it seems, she made a "safe vote" at the day two also! For according to the rules, the person who will not post in two days is removed, and still she voted for WQ, who was on her way of "removal" anyhow!

Even if I have promised myself to be easier from now on, as not to offend anyone as much as I clearly have done - I just can't help reminding you others, that when I suggested her being very keen to vote for me after Roa apologized her wrong information about the lynches (double lynches were on!), she was quick enough to sarcastically note, that she had read the rules and knew them... So why to vote someone, a rules-knowing person would know, would be taken off anyhow? I do find this quite suspicious...

But better cases sure are needed. We are now in the twilight hours: one or two bad judgements at the vote, and we are dead, one or two good ones, and we win.

[JennyHallu]

Oh no! We lost one of our seers.

I'm checking in, I don't really have time to stay tonight. We've been spending a lot of time on who Holby thought was innocent. I think Ang is right. Of himself, Roa, and Ang, at least two are probably Holbytlass's dreamees. I also agree with Ang that the second seer is probably NOT in that list--Holby's too savvy for that.


But as for suspects, neither Enca nor Naria, really seem that suspicious. My eyes are really more on Gil and Lommy. Gil's near-silence and unexplained votes (completely aside from the fact that it was for me..hehe) strike me as a great cover for a proverbially quiet wolf.

And Lommy is loud, but she doesn't seem to make any risky statements. She follows what others say, and she seems to flip-flop a lot in her opinions.

These two seem to be offering us two completely different sides of the coin, and in my opinion both are equally likely to be wolvish.

[Nogrod]

[JennyHallu]But as for suspects, neither Enca nor Naria, really seem that suspicious. My eyes are really more on Gil and Lommy. Gil's near-silence and unexplained votes (completely aside from the fact that it was for me..hehe) strike me as a great cover for a proverbially quiet wolf.

Do you have something to clear Enca or Naria? Both Anguirel and Eonwe have been suspecting Enca, and I have been suspecting Naria (along Holby etc.). So could you spell out some reasons, why they are not wolves? Saying that they "really don't seem that suspicious" is basically saying nothing.

And Lommy is loud, but she doesn't seem to make any risky statements. She follows what others say, and she seems to flip-flop a lot in her opinions.

These two seem to be offering us two completely different sides of the coin, and in my opinion both are equally likely to be wolvish.

Lommy is one, I will have to turn my attention more over to. That is sure. She plays with the flood-style - which I admit I am guilty of too sometimes - and it's hard to see the core from there. Maybe we should see again Roa's heroic analysis of Thin'lo, and add to them her posts after that.

Gil is more problematic. His vote yesterday - to Jenny - was just outrageous! If he's not going to come by with some good explanations about the reasons for his vote and reasons for his brevity, we should really think about his dealings with some rigor.

But what if, he is just a inept gamer having weak net-access? Can we afford lynching one innocent more?

I surely would like to hear something from Gil, before the day is at an end.

[Nogrod]

And just to play the joker before going to sleep, I must ask this:

Jenny: Why you
1) do not comment the obvious suggestion I had over Naria at the post just before you (enough time between them not to X-post), but just go on claiming that she does not "really seem that suspicious"?
2) as my seemingly devoted voter, consciously forgot me from the Holby's innocent list?

Just asking.... :)

PS. I probably will be online just occasionally the next 15 hours. I'll promise to do my best at the last two hours of the day...

[JennyHallu]

Honestly, she just doesn't seem suspicious. Yes, two people have said they will be voting for her, but neither of them have given reasons either. Anguirel, yesterday, said that her analysis was "So quick to definitively analyse her own bandwagon (and to do it so well, too) thereby effortlessly sliding from the public gaze."

This sounds like Ang is casting suspicion on her because she did a good job of analysing the votes for THE Ka.

Frankly, I just don't feel like she's wolvish. Ang and Eonwe think she is, but I'd really appreciate hearing why they think this. I admit I may be completely off-base. I don't have any evidence that could prove she's innocent. But I don't think we've heard a good case against her yet. Eonwe says she suspects her, but hasn't said a word as to why. We lost two innocents yesterday. We cannot suspect anyone of wolvishness without really good reasoning.

As for your arguments against Naria, who is not in either my innocent list or my suspected list, I didn't really think much of them one way or the other. It was my impression that the two-days rule had been exercised in one game a long time ago, and I at least hadn't ever heard it mentioned. I assumed Naria voted for WQ because she didn't feel a silent player should be in the game, but wasn't sure if Sleepy was going to institute the rule. She hadn't expressed particularly strong feelings for or against anyone during the Day...

Which is frankly a far stronger point. She made a second very safe vote. Ok, now that you have forced me to consider, I think you have a very good case. I agree with you, and I will add Naria to my list of suspects.

SO...my suspicions lie mainly with Naria, Thinlomien, and Gil. Thank you for asking me to take a closer look at your argument. I still ask for more information regarding Enca before I make a judgement either way. Ang and Eonwe are both far more experienced at the game than I, so maybe they're seeing something I wouldn't think to suspect. I am definitely willing to learn from their experience.

[JennyHallu]

Oh and your second question. I only just looked up there and saw that I listed Ang twice. Ang, Roa, and Nogrod. Forgive me. I should quit playing WW and watching TV movies at the same time.

[Naria]

SLEEPY'S RULES (methinks a mod can pretty much make up a rule of whatever they want)

These are his:

-Non-Retraceable votes
-Double Lynchings are allowed
-When making a vote please keep it in a line seperate from the rest of the post and have it in bold with two pluses (++).
-Please stay invisible for your duration of the game
-Refrain from discussing the game outside of the game area
-There shall be no posting during the night
-The dealine is 2pm EST, 3pm CST and 7pm GMT
-It may be cliched but, 'Enjoy yourself!'

Nogrod, where does it say that one gets an automatic boot if there is a 2 day no post? I don't see one. And if there are outside rules that apply to every ww game then I am not aware of them. If I was then of course I would not have voted for WQ. I was after you, but during DAY 2 I had dropped some suspicion of you and went for the person that hadn't posted yet for reasons that I had stated.

Is it me or is Nogrod having a very easy time 'swaying' people? If there was a cobbler in this game I would seriously have to look into him.

Today's narration: When I first read it, I didn't see anything out of the ordinary. Then I re-read it, I know what I am and anyone that re-read it would also know. I am trying to save a now ordo Valier, and Thinlo keeps me from doing that. Valier then dies and I say "you fool" to Thinlo and punch her(Thinlo making Valier's death immenent in the voting).

I am wondering why so much attention is being brought on me....I thought I had put enough "substance" in my posts. I will defend myself if need be, as will others I'm sure(defend themselves). I feel that I am caught between the proverbial 'rock and a hard place'. I don't want to actually come out and say what I am, but I will if need be.

[Encaitare]

Just a quick one before I go to sleep. Anguirel and Eonwe, I would like an explanation of why exactly you suspect me so much. So far the only evidence you seem to present is a vote for a wolf and a good analysis, both which were beneficial to the village.

We have too much of a past in common.

Ang, I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Are you still referring to that anvil thing? Because if you think I remember everyone's roles from way back when, you're giving me far too much credit.

Come tomorrow morning, I think I will vote for Thinlomien, because of Holby's vote for her yesterDay, or possibly Gil, if he hasn't posted at all by the time I vote.

[Anguirel]

Yes, I was referring to the anvil thing. It seemed...just within the bounds of possibility. It's also interesting that you remember it was "way back then". I made no mention of which village I referred to. As it happens, yes, it was the second one. What a fine memory you have, Grandmother.

But there are other reasons too, Enca. Jenny isn't picking up my tone of voice when I refer to your beautiful analyses.

You were the first to analyse the Ka bandwagon, of which you were a part. As a result, subsequent voters, drawing on your source, were bound to pay more attention to Jenny and Thinlomien than you.

Likewise, as Eonwe pointed out, you were the first to analyse Holbytlass' posts. Unless we go straight to the evidence-and some will just refer to your excellent account for convenience-we could be seeing Seer clues through wolf-tinted spectacles. For instance, your hint that Thinlomien could be a wolf-consistent with your earlier analysis. A set-up gathering pace?

One sin you're not guilty of is bringing up the second Seer. I repeat, speculation on whether that role is or is not on Holby's innocent list can only help our enemies. The Seer is to be heard but not seen until s/he dies or reveals his/her identity. Roa, Nogrod, Jenny, take note!

However, I would tend to associate this transgression with inexperience (whether wolvish or not), so it's no surprise to me that Enca keeps clean.

Finally, voting record. As Eonwe said, the position of your vote was a good deal more dangerous than you make out in your analysis. You voted at the turning of the tide-a typical, expert suspicion-avoidance vote.

Then yesterday you went with the general feeling again by voting Valier. As an innocent I would have expected you to strike out in a more...well, interesting...way. But as a wolf...an excellent vote. It emanates haplessness. "Look at me, I don't know what I'm doing, I've lynched an innocent at this stage, a wolf would never knowingly do that..."

There. There's my indictment, and, jurors, you can take it or leave it.

++ENCAITARE

[Thinlómien]

Holby was the seer, but she had only two dreams. The possibility (mathematically) to catch even one wolf in two nights is very small. I think you shouldn't judge me or Naria on that basis. And if a seer doesn't know any of the wolves, she/he votes as randomly as anyone else (of course probably ruling out her/his known innocent). So please don't vote me only just because Holby didn't know I was innocent.

Now this: Thanks to those who took out a wolf yesterDAY, I'm sure at least one fellow wolf voted for The Ka. said by a seer I think must mean something. I think it means that Holby had dreamed about somebody of us bandwagoners and revealed he/she was a wolf. The bandwagoners are: LMP, Roa_Aoife, me, Enca and Jenny. LMP has been revealed innocent. I trust Roa, because she took THE Ka fatally into spotlight and has posted very meaningful posts. I know I'm an innocent, so I rule myself out. It leaves Enca and Jenny as possible wolves. I think I'll do some analysis on them. By gut feeling I'd rather vote for Enca, but this needs some thought.

I hope Holby wouldn't have given so differing opinions on the matter. Because: At this point: my main suspects are Naria and Thinlomien Naria is no Ka-bandwagoner and I'm no wolf. This troubles me; you'll probably lynch me because I am on both "lists". I hope you don't. Besides that it is nasty for me, the village loses again one innocent.

If we follow Nogrod's theory that those who Holby suspected were innocent are now at the top of the wolves' killing list, we really should catch a wolf toDay. I tell you, it would be again a dead innocent and two wolves still around if you lynch me. I can't ask you not to analyse or accuse me; you have the right to do that, but please don't vote me (though you again of course have the right to do so), because lynching me would be folly.

EDIT: xposted with Anguirel

[Thinlómien]

JennyHallu analysis:
Day 1
#22 - moans Sleepy's death, says it is far too easy to point fingers only on the basis of loudness or quietness, urges people to speak
#44 - doesn't agree with THE Ka about quiet people being suspicious, says she could suspect Anguirel or Valier on the base of their "roles" (verses, "v"), says she'll try to find clues from Sleepy's posts
#97 - explains her silence, is impressed about the interpretations about Sleepy's text, finds Naria suspicious on that basis, explains why THE Ka is suspicious (Cupid's arrow, quick defense).
#105 - a vote summary

Day 2
#109 - summary of dead and alive people
#113 - questions Ang about his voting
#115 - says we should take a closer look on the Nogrod-bandwagon, says Sleepy will apparently set the clues in obvious ways
#118 - asks what is "cack-handed"
#125 - explains xpost and EDIT-mark
#126 - defends Valesse and Valier, suspects Naria and wishes Valesse a happy birthday
#140 - explains her error, urges Nogrod to relax
#157 - says quietness isn't necessarily cheating, doesn't understand Nogrod, her impression of Thinlomien is mostly innocent
#163 - defends herself, wonders why people aren't convinced about her innocence, accuses Nogrod of not listening to her and suspects him on that basis
#174 - reminds that WQ has still time to appear, asks about votes that far
#192 - Ang's vote confuses her, says that Roa and Eonwe should get more spotlight, hopes Gil will appear, votes for Nogrod (says he's to loud and accuses people too easily)

Day 3
#221 - says she won't be online for a long time today, agrees with Ang about Holby, suspects Gil (nonsense posting an silence) and Thinlomien (loudness, but no risky statements, flip-flopping)
#224 - says Enca(?) isn't suspicious, slightly accuses Ang on casting suspicion on Enca, wants to hear why people suspect Enca, says Naria is neutral to her, and then adds her to her suspicions' list because of a safe vote, restates that her suspects are Gil, Thinlomien and Naria
#225 - corrects her listing

On this basis she doesn't feel very suspicious to me. Most of the time she agrees or disagrees with other people and doesn't make new points - this is not necessarily a wolfish thing though some of you think so and I do see the point there - and her points are sometimes abit vague, but overall I'm rather sure that she's innocent.

Enca is the next to be analysed.

[Thinlómien]

Analysis on Enca
Day 1
#12 - moans Sleepy's death
#20 - says that little pressure is good for the quiet ones, but says people shouldn't be suspected solely of how much they talk
#45 - checks in, suspects she'll vote randomly
#92 - gets heated about Thinlomien's comments on her posting, asks Thinlomien what does she mean by "sound", makes a voting summary, agrees with LMP about THE Ka's self-defence and votes for THE Ka

Day 2
#120 - analyses Ka-bandwagon and says it is probable that there's one wolf, but can't say who
#145 - says we shouldn't concentrate on little things, jokes about Nogrod
#146 - agrees with Ang about the strangeness of Nogrod-bandwagon, slightly suspects Naria, defends loud people and thinks that Roa's argument about them is very suspicious, but still believes Roa innocent (early Ka-vote), thinks she will vote for WQ, defends her vote for Ka, suspects Thinlomien, Naria, Roa and Holby on Sleepy's posts, asks WQ, Gil and Valesse to speak up
#178 - has checked WQ's profile, says Gil's vote for Jenny is odd, suspects Valesse (self-defense-orientated), Gil (hasty and unexplained vote) and Valier (nonsense posts). Votes for Valier (she just echoes others), says she'll pay special attention to Gil and WQ the next day.

Day 3
#214 - says that doesn't understand Ang, makes a Holby-summary, suspects that Holby dreamed of a wolf-Thinlomien
#216 - clears her summary
#227 - would like to hear why Ang and Eonwe suspect her, says she'll probably vote for Thinlomien because Holby voted her also

That's it this far. I wouldn't find her particularly suspecting, though she's a bit too eager to analyse and make us look through lenses set by her and be helpful, if I didn't consider Holby's remarks about THE Ka-bandwagon and Ang's very convincing post and vote. Enca has been quite brief. I would like to hear more about her, though she's not one of the quitests.

innocents for sure: Thinlómien (I happened to read the PM telling me my role)
most probably innocents: Roa (put Ka into spotlight, has been meaningful)
probably innocents: Ang (if Ang was a wolf, Holby would have died earlier, besides, I don't think that wolf-Ang would have killed LMP just because he might be a tough opponent - I'm under the impression that Ang likes challenges), Jenny (I didn't find anything wolfish in her while doing my analysis), Gil-Galad (a wolf wouldn't surely be so careless)
can't say: Nogrod (has been over-aggressive, but remembering the last game, it's his playing style), Eonwe (voted quite stupidly and wolfishly in Day 1, but has been generally behaving quite well and unwolfishly - I think he's the next one who should be analysed)
my suspects: Enca, Naria (nonsense posting and being jumpy), Valesse (too little posting, is hiding too well)

[Thinlómien]

I will leave now and will be back before the voting time.

Please everyone considering voting for me during my absence: read my posts through and think again.

[Nogrod]

This is getting really interesting!

I only have a moment now, but will be back with "full effort" about two hours before the voting.

I was just wondering about the wolves killing tactics. LMP was, in the end, a clear choice: he's a smart player and thence a threat, and his getting the right one first, with kind of a single shot, is kind of seerlike. To add on that, it would look nicely like wolves showing, what happens to those who threat them. So they were running after a seer.

And the next day, they got one. Now was that just pure luck, or had they suspicions about Holby's being the seer? "The Holby archives" once again...

Why to ponder over these matters? I'd like to raise the question Thinlómien did earlier: are we facing very cunning wolves or "stupid" ones? That background thought will surely affect our judgements.

With the cunning line, I could be persuaded to back Ang's suspicion over Enca, with the less cunning line I could side the suspicions over Gil f.ex.

PS.
= NARIA: I don't want to actually come out and say what I am, but I will if need be.
This threat to reveal her identity seems quite dubious to me... as we seem to have better candidates for the seer's post around.

[Roa_Aoife]

Eonwe (voted quite stupidly and wolfishly in Day 1, but has been generally behaving quite well and unwolfishly - I think he's the next one who should be analysed)

I actually thought of doing this last night (RL), since Eonwe seems to be slipping under the radar quite effectively.

Eonwe analysis
Day 1
1st post - nonsense
2nd - Says there is no real formula in WW, suggests waiting for the seer to announce some innocents, makes other remarks about gifted revealing themselves. Says we will be wrong in the lynchings from time to time. Votes LMP.
3rd - "Most everything about Werewolf is nonsense, my dear Lommy."
4th - "Take what you can get, I guess..."

Day 2
1st - Thinks of looking at beginning of Ka voters or near the end
2nd - Thinks Nogrod is uptight, analyzes Ka voters. Doesn't know about Roa, thinks Enca is suspicious because of vote placement. Slightly less suspicious of Thin. Not sure about Jenny.
3rd - Clarifies post 57.
4th - No longer suspects Thin, defends against Thin's posts again.
No vote

Day 3
1st - Suspects Enca for voting the Ka, but thinks that already suspecting her makes it easy to think she is twisting Holby's analysis. Says got caught up in RL, but would have voted for Enca yesterday

[Roa_Aoife]

Eonwe, why do you say that you would have voted for Enca yesterday? There wasn't a really great case for her set up yet, and you hadn't expressed suspicion of her up till that point. Do you have a reason for the sudden change?

[Roa_Aoife]

Also, when you said to look at the Ka voters, you thought to look at the beginning or end votes, not at the middle, where Enca was. That's a little too convenient for my tastes. Only in your very next post did you look at the middle, suddenly thinking Enca was suspicious. You contradicted yourself. Can you explain?

EDIT: Just letting you know that I have to go for the time being. I'll be back about an hour before voting closes.

[JennyHallu]

Thank you, Ang, for elaborating on the case against Enca. I am not sure what I think of her, it's hard to see someone as wolvish whom you thought must be innocent all along. Rather humbling. I am going to have to consider long and hard before I make my decision today.

Naria, I am absolutely taking you off my suspicious list. I may not understand your voting, but I believe you are innocent. Nogrod is once again being silly: This threat to reveal her identity seems quite dubious to me... as we seem to have better candidates for the seer's post around.

The Seer is not the only Gifted, Nogrod. And Ang makes a good point regarding speculation on the identity of the seer. I wonder if you carefully read the day's posting, as you go right back to such speculation.

My list so far:

Probably Innocent: Myself, Ang, Roa, Naria (whew, it's nice to cross so many off my list.)

Unsure: Nogrod, Encaitare, Eonwe (You make excellent points, Roa, I wonder how Eonwe has been slipping so easily under our radar...you'd think I would have learned after Mith in my past life...)

Looking very bad: Thinlomien, Gil

A further question for Thinlomien:

The possibility (mathematically) to catch even one wolf in two nights is very small. I think you shouldn't judge me or Naria on that basis. And if a seer doesn't know any of the wolves, she/he votes as randomly as anyone else (of course probably ruling out her/his known innocent). So please don't vote me only just because Holby didn't know I was innocent.

said by a seer I think must mean something. I think it means that Holby had dreamed about somebody of us bandwagoners and revealed he/she was a wolf. The bandwagoners are: LMP, Roa_Aoife, me, Enca and Jenny.

Either you think Holby dreamed of a wolf or you don't. If she did, she only expressed suspicion of you, and said nothing about Enca or myself. (She said nothing about myself at all)

This abrupt flip-flop, in a single post, seems to me wolvish. Its best defense is that I really don't think our wolves today are so clumsy.

[Valesse]

(This seemed quite long while I was writing it, and touched on to quite a few subjects so I revised into sections.)

Response to Holby:
Don't find suspicious at this moment: Anguriel,Nogrod (despite the heated posts) and Roa_Aoife.
I'm very apt to take the seer's advice over my old hunch. Since there were two bandwagon votes on the first Day (as well you know more than probably anyone else.) I'm quite certain that Holby probably dreamed of Nogrod to see if we were correctly suspecting. Projected proof is more definative than tonal evaluation.

Absence of posts:
Really, I am quite sorry about how little I have been posting but between school and my birthday I suddenly became a very busy poultry gender analysist. I'm trying to at least get a post or two in each day, which isn't much, but know that it would be much more had I the time. (And really, most of the Day occurs while I'm off in dreamland-RL.) I was unaware exactly how much was going to happen at exactly the wrong time, so please bear with me (As long as the wolves and voters allow), because I'm doing the best that I can.

Discussion at hand:
Now for something on topic. Roa brought it up, and seeing as I'm not exactly wary of her I'm very keen on looking in to it:
not so long ago there was a story about a wolf named Ang who voted for his fellow wolf named Thin on the very first day, and got her lynched. He thus avoided suspicion till the very last day. (Or post #169 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=450555&postcount=169) if you'd like to see the quote she used to support.)
This on top of everyone else's research into the mind that is Thinlo has really got something to say for herself.

Considering the ramifications:
If Thinlo is OR is not a wolf then we should definitely look at post #231 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=450954&postcount=231) (Post Analysis). I'm willing to assume that Thinlo and Holby might have downplayed their known allies, but so far I have not taken that into the account in my posts so far. It just bears mentioning in my honest opinion.

[Nogrod]

JENNY: Naria, I am absolutely taking you off my suspicious list. I may not understand your voting, but I believe you are innocent. Nogrod is once again being silly:
Quote (NOGROD):
This threat to reveal her identity seems quite dubious to me...

I wouldn't like to be seen as a general prosecutor over Naria, but there sure is something odd here. I'm admittedly, just at beginners level, and maybe missing the idea here. In that case I sure would like to see me corrected on this one.

But why would anyone gifted kind of hint about her giftedness? Isn't it just like inviting the wolves to drop in the next night?

If Naria is a gifted and shouts out like that, I can't quite see her logic. I can see that gifteds either stay silent about their roles or then reveal themselves once and for all - for a reason that is good enough to die for the next night, or the next.

But still. I'm also considering Ang's suggestions. They seem quite reasonable. I'll go to see for them next. And Eonwe should be checked too, And Lommy... (with Gil, there is the problem, that there isn't much to check)

And as no-one else has kind of backed my sometime faltering, sometimes strengthening suspicions on Naria lately, I'm beginnig to waver myself with it too. I have no case against her - and don't boast to have one - but there just seems to be so many little things in there. Insiqnificant as they may be taken as themselves, but taken together, there's something odd in Naria's ways.

X-posted with Valesse. Good to see you back and posting!

[Naria]

This is were things stand with me so far:

The people who I think are innocent
ME, Jenny, Ang, Gil, Roa

Still unsure of as of now
Nogrod, Thinlo, and Eonwe

Suspicious
Valesse and Enca


My unsure of list would be because all three so far have made some very good cases. Nogrod and Thinlo are becoming more clear to me, but I am not ready to take either one out of that category as of now. Eonwe was making me suspicous but then said that if he/she would have voted yesterday he/she would have gone for Enca, I thought it to be some kind of flip-flop today but he/she did have Enca on their suspicous list. Still a no vote and the RL excuse confuses me.

My suspicous list would be because Valesse has come on briefly makes a point and leaves, then comes back on and votes for whichever one seems to be the most popular person at the time. Enca is here because I have had my suspicions about her/him. Ang has clarified this for me today and it makes sense.

[Thinlómien]

I'm here and it seems some people are sure that I'm a wolf. I tell you: if you want to kill an ordo toDay, kill me. Otherwise killing me makes no sense.

[Valesse]

This is were things stand with me so far:

Suspicious
Valesse and Enca

My suspicous list would be because Valesse has come on briefly makes a point and leaves, then comes back on and votes for whichever one seems to be the most popular person at the time. Enca is here because I have had my suspicions about her/him. Ang has clarified this for me today and it makes sense.

Naria? What?
In the case of... well everyone that I have voted for so far in the game (heehee, which basically translates to Nogrod) I was the first person to cast the vote and I did so under my own suspicions. I have yet to 'disappear' and cast my vote yet toDay, so any pattern of activity which you accuse me of appears to be pure conjecture. In any case I would like to hear exactly how you came by that opinion other than the Thinlo-theory which is quite green.

If that is where you formed you "votes most popular" point, I'd comment on your pointer finger being a quick-draw.

**Cross-posted with Thinlo, though our posts don't have anything to do with one another, its decorum to point these things out.

[Encaitare]

It's also interesting that you remember it was "way back then".

Actually, what I wrote was “way back when, implying that it could have been any time.

For instance, your hint that Thinlomien could be a wolf-consistent with your earlier analysis. A set-up gathering pace?

Or, maybe I’m right.

Then yesterday you went with the general feeling again by voting Valier.

I’m not sure it’s fair to say I “went with the general feeling” because I was the first to vote for Valier, and fairly late in the day at that. I am hardly to blame if people like to bandwagon at the last minute, as seems to be the trend in this village.

Thank you for at least providing a more thorough analysis.

The possibility (mathematically) to catch even one wolf in two nights is very small.

Small, but not impossible.

This abrupt flip-flop, in a single post, seems to me wolvish.

A good point. Thinlomien’s been defending herself fairly well, but with being so vocal perhaps a Wolf-Lommy would have to mess up at some point?

Here’s my suspicion hierarchy, if you will, of my fellow villagers right now.

Probably Innocent
Roa_Aiofe – because she only voted second for Ka
Anguirel – because he was the one to bring up that anvil hint when it otherwise would have gone unnoticed

Not Sure
Nogrod – like the title would imply, I’m really not sure… he just seems to play like an innocent. Maybe this cleanliness should make me more suspicious, but right now there are better places to turn my attentions.

Mildly Suspicious
JennyHallu – because she does tend to stay in the “middle zone”
Naria – hinting at being a Gifted is serious and risky business. She could actually be a Gifted, or she could be a wolf pretending to be one.
Valesse – for her absence
Eonwe – because he just seems to go along with whatever Anguirel says

Most Suspicious
Thinlomien – because of her vote on Day 1, Holby’s vote for her, constant posting, and maybe that little flip-flop, if a flip-flop it indeed was
Gil-Galad – for the unexplained vote and nearly total absence

I’ll probably vote for Thinlomien, but Gil is also a possibility.

[Nogrod]

Today's narration: When I first read it, I didn't see anything out of the ordinary. Then I re-read it, I know what I am and anyone that re-read it would also know. I am trying to save a now ordo Valier, and Thinlo keeps me from doing that. Valier then dies and I say "you fool" to Thinlo and punch her(Thinlo making Valier's death immenent in the voting).


I just happened to come over Sleepy's narration too. And believe me Naria: I didn't remember that it was you who had analyzed it earlier (I remembered it being Jenny)!

And I must say, that the story really could be read in many ways - as is the purpose of it.

What I can see there is as follows:

Naria and Thinlómien are clearly one against another, both referring to each other as fools.

Naria seemed moved enough to help her, in fact she began to take a few steps forward only to get pulled back by Thinlomien, "She is our foe you fool,

Grimacing through the pain Naria looked hard at Thinlomien, "You fool!" she muttered sending a hard punch to her newly recieved wound causing her to faint.

Now it's quite clear that Thin should be acting on behalf of Valier's death in the narration, that anyhow was the case in the game yesterday. So why would Sleepy go on underlining that Thin is a villain - if she'd be one? So I mean, aren't you now reading a bit too much, and too easy on Sleepy's text? I remember you punching me about me not giving enough credit to Sleepy's writing! And now you try to imply, that that piece of narration clears you and makes Thin a wolf???

If we go on subtleties, might we also point out that:
Naria seemed moved enough to help her
So seemed, but maybe really wasn't...

But really. Can't say one way or another. Many ways to interpret this one...

Then there is this one about Jenny. Too little time for that now, but Jenny could herself elaborate, whether she had basically disliked killing WQ on grounds of not-posting, or were you ready to go for it? That could give us grounds to see this as significant or insignificant:
all of a sudden Witch_Queen let out a scream, everyone turned to her and watched in shock as she began to vomit blood. It seemed to go on forever causing JennyHallu to throw up (luckily it wasn't blood in her case)

But I can't see this as as important thing as that Thin vs. Naria -thing

X-posted from #240 onwards...

[Thinlómien]

Am I supposed to defend myself?

I can only say: read my posts through and think about them. Most of you won't do that - I know - since I was such a chatterbox on Day 1.

- If I was a wolf, would I be babbling so much and being so contradictory? Wouldn't I be a bit more careful with my words?
- If I was a wolf, would I bandawagon on the day one? I do know that bandwagoners get most attention the next day. And wolves don't like attention, and insightful attention the least.
- If I was a wolf, would I have talked all the Day 1, however bored I was? Wouldn'ät a wolf try not to get so much attention?
- If I was a wolf, wouldn't it have been wise for me to vote someone else than Valier or Nogrod yesterday? More innocents would have died, and I could have said "x (the person I voted) was more suspicious to me". I could have been ignoring the situation going on. Or voted earlier if I saw what would happen and then escape the responsibilty and spotlight. (This is assuming that Nogrod is an innocent, which is mathematically probable. Of course that can be said about everyone.)
- If I was a wolf, why would I have got frustrated with Eonwe on d1 when he voted totally randomly? Don't wolves like people who don't bother to analyse

Sorry, but I have to say that you're looking for a wolf from the wrong place. I hope you realise it before it's too late. For me and for the village.

EDIT: cross-posted with Valesse, Enca and Nogrod

[Valesse]

Alright, well my time toDay has run out, how very short it has been. Hopefully I have slaked some of the village's want for my words, though I doubt I did enough to satisfy everyone.

I'm forced to be brief now.
Due to Holby's suspicion, Roa's point, and various other people's remarks as well as my own (constantly interupted) musing (seriously, do you think I want to be torn away from the computer?) I'm quite sure to vote for

++ Thinlómien

** Cross posted with Thinlo.

[Nogrod]

- If I was a wolf, wouldn't it have been wise for me to vote someone else than Valier or Nogrod yesterday? More innocents would have died, and I could have said "x (the person I voted) was more suspicious to me". I could have been ignoring the situation going on. Or voted earlier if I saw what would happen and then escape the responsibilty and spotlight.


I guess Thinlómien is here making some sense. Although by admitting to being there in the first place (at voting time) would have kind of required some action: a villager should vote for one to save one and not to let them die both... But ignoring the situation might have been wise for a wolf (Eonwe? - although said RL was the reason for not voting, and that should be honoured), or a bit earlier "innocent looking" vote?

Time's running and everythings a mess!

[Encaitare]

You make a couple of decent points for your defense, Lommy, but not all of them are so valid.

If I was a wolf, would I have talked all the Day 1, however bored I was? Wouldn'ät a wolf try not to get so much attention?

I don’t know anything about your WW-playing history, so I don’t know how much experience you have. An inexperienced player might have talked on and on.

If I was a wolf, wouldn't it have been wise for me to vote someone else than Valier or Nogrod yesterday?

No. Because allowing a triple-lynch to happen would have screamed “I’m a wolf!” to the entire village.

If I was a wolf, why would I have got frustrated with Eonwe on d1 when he voted totally randomly? Don't wolves like people who don't bother to analyse

I’m sure they do. But a wolf wouldn’t want the others to know that s/he was okay with that random vote.

I sincerely hope I’m right that you’re a wolf, Lommy.

++ Thinlomien

(What ever should be do with Gil, by the way? It would be horrible to see another situation like with WQ, where she was silent yet innocent. But Gil’s absence and nonsense vote are really quite ridiculous.)

(Crossposted with Valesse and Nogrod.)

[Thinlómien]

Goodness with you people!
There is no me against Naria case except maybe in Sleepy's narration, and I have no idea why is that, since today is the first day we've really suspected each other.

Quotes by Enca
Or, maybe I’m right. I can tell you you're not, but I don't know if it's any help since you probably won't believe me.

Small, but not impossible. Have I ever said otherwise? But I admit that I usually don't believe in luck; at the moment it's against the village and me.


Either you think Holby dreamed of a wolf or you don't. If she did, she only expressed suspicion of you, and said nothing about Enca or myself. (She said nothing about myself at all)
This abrupt flip-flop, in a single post, seems to me wolvish. Its best defense is that I really don't think our wolves today are so clumsy. Okay I admit that it is not well-said. I admit I didn't think about that when I posted. I admit that I didn't read that post after writing it. But you surely should know my style after these three days. I am flip-floppy, and I can't help it, because I rather write flow of consciousness (as you yourself said) than detailed posts with clear opinions.

[Thinlómien]

Argh! You're so wrong that it makes me sick! Unfortunately you will probably see it in half an hour.

++Encaitare

EDIT: x-posting with everyone all the time