Tol-in-Gaurhoth XX: Wereorc I: The elves cannot hide themselves much longer.

[Farael]

Middle-Erthian lore usually recognises rather few elven domains. Rivendel, Lothlorien, Mirkwood are perhaps better known because of the war of the ring. What no other scholar but myself knows, is the sad story of a small elven village that went by the name of “Pueblo”. For some extremely strange reason, the villagers of this town happened to speak a variation of Quenya that resembled Spanish very closely. They also wore Sombreros. Nice sombreros too, it is sad that the art of making elvish sombreros has been lost along with the history and lives of some of the residents of this town.

But I ramble, what I was trying to get across is that there was this little nice village in which everything was ok

[Flashback to Diamond 18 walking down a well cared for lawn]
Diamond: Everything is perfectly fine, nothing could possibly go wrong!!
[/endFlashback]

Yet of course, and as it always happens on the movies, things went wrong anyway. It was a dark night, Winter had recently gone away to make place for Spring, which had chosen to take vacations and left a void that was promptly filled by Summer. Sadly, Summer had spend his off-season eating too much and was nowhere close to game shape so for all intents and purposes, it was a dark Winter night. Even if it was not time for Winter.

What was I saying? Oh, I should have taken that green pill… what was it for? Which colour was the memory pill? Oh, yes… the story.

Small animals tended to disappear from time to time on this village, always at night. The last victim had been Nogrod’s little dog, a very friendly if slightly rabid dog. Somehow, the cage in which he was kept to prevent other animals getting the disease had been torn open yet the dog was never found.

This night, something would happen that would comparatively diminish the animal disappearances to a mildly annoying joke. Farael disappeared.

Who was Farael? The scrolls are rather inconclusive. As far as I can understand, he was either a psychomaniac sheep with horns as long as a man’s forearm and a really foul temper… or he was the town’s Alchemist. I’m still working on that.

His disappearance was discovered by Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant when she went to his laboratory to remind him that she had written him a letter which he had not yet answered. She walked into the lab and found everything in complete order. The chemicals were organized alphabetically, the instruments were clean and stored in the proper places and the books were ordered by author in their respective shelves. Spawn ran away crying.

She was crying so hard she did not see Sleepy Ranger who decided to set his “apple-barrel” self right in the middle of the street. She tripped and went flying over the edge of a conveniently placed endless pit. Suddenly, a shining figure dressed in a white robe appeared, carefully bringing Spawn off the hole and deposited safely on the town’s square, where the other villagers had gathered to see what all the noise was.

Nilp, what the heck are you doing here? This is MY game, not yours!... oh, alright fine.. I won’t kill Spawn just yet, but if she gets lynched or killed by the wereorcs you have to promise not to interfere….

*ahem* yes, so I was saying, the village was gathered and Spawn explained what she had seen. Legolas in Spandex questioned the woman’s sanity, as he saw nothing wrong with Farael’s lab being clean. JennyHallu took Legolas aside for a moment and explained him that Farael never cleans or puts things in their proper order, therefore someone must have attacked him during the night and decided to clean to erase the evidence.

Glirdan volunteered to start looking for Farael and was joined by Findëasëa and Kitanna. After a moment of deliberation, they walked to Farael’s laboratory and found it, just like Spawn had said, in complete order. Yet there was something she had not noticed. On one corner, there was a huge jar of Hydrochloric Acid. That isn’t really important for the story’s sake, but I figured I’d let you know about it. What did matter is that on the other corner there was something, covered by a blanket and a sign that said “Do not touch. Signed: Fareal”.

Obviously, Farael would not misspell his own name, so Glirdan decided to investigate. You are probably expecting to read that it was Farael’s body what was under the blanket, and I will not let you down this time. The poor elf had his body dyed of many different colours and a bewildered look on his face. Findëasëa grabbed a book that was titled “chemical compounds of Middle Earth and their colours” only to find that Farael had effectively been stained with every compound known. This had clearly killed him, but why wasn’t he wearing his labcoat? A quick inspection of the site brought up the answer.

The coat was stashed on a drawer and written all over. Most of the writings were gone, but what Kitanna managed to read said the following:

Sounds of chemicals boiling in the room…
They are outside, I cannot get out
I have locked the doors, shut the windows but I fear I will not be able to hold them back

“WEREWOLVES?! WHO WAS IT, FARAEL?!” Yelled Glirdan, but the writing on the labcoat went on

… be patient, I’m trying to set a mood here…
Here they come again, there are three of them.
The chemicals are boiling, I cannot get out…
Three wereorcs are after me,
From their clothes I know that they are…

Glirdan waited patiently, but this time it was the end of the writing.

Farael was killed by three wereorcs and the village was thrown into mayhem and confusion. In their elven wisdom, they determined that what they needed to do was to argue during the day in order to decide of one, and only one, elf to Lynch, in hopes it will be one of the wretched creatures. Furthermore, they decided that, to avoid confusion and add stress, once an elf had voted, he would not be able to change his vote.

Two villagers nodded silently, while thinking to themselves. One of them was going to be in charge of looking after his fellow villagers. The other was in charge of discovering the identity of the wereorcs, even if the information would not go to him/herself at night.

And so, the village started arguing their way for the first day’s lynching.

Now living:
Caranlondien: aspiring harpist
JennyHallu: Doomsday prophet
Nogrod: unemployed barber.
Grendelien: village whittler
Findëasëa: paleoelfropologist
Celuien:lampwright
Zali: stringer-of-bows
Diamond: Inept Jewel Smith
Dancing Spawn...: a merchant
Glirdan:Very confused wereWOLF hunter (confused as he's faced with wereorcs rather than werewolves)
Kitanna:(still playing? If so thou shall be...) The town's gate-keeper
Naria:The grower of magnificent flowers
Sleepy A barrel of apples*
Legolas in spandex:For now he shall be Legolass (A movie-Legolast impersonator) unless he gives me another role
Roa_Aoife aspiring ballad writer

3 Wereorcs, 1 Ranger and 1 Shaman are still alive..

The wereorcs may PM only during the night cycle. They have to plot and decide whom to kill every night during the day, they act as any other villager.

The ranger will PM me every night the name of a villager. This villager will not be killed if the wereorcs choose him. The ranger may not choose the same villager two nights in a row

The shaman will PM me the name of one villager every night. The role of this villager will be disclosed in a dream right before the start of the following day. The dream will go to the Shaman for sure on day 1, then it will be decided completely at random. It may go to the Shaman, it may go to a wereorc, it may go to an innocent villager.

The rest of the rules are standard Werewolf. PM me if there are any doubts and… post away, my friends.

EDIT: Just a little friendly reminder... you MIGHT want to keep yourself as "invisible" during the game. It will avoid people being able to see what you are doing and thus derive information from it. To change your status to "invisible" you have to go to the User CP and toy around there, I'm not sure where it is. Do remember to save changes once you are done.

EDIT 2: Forgot to mention, I started the day early because I have a Pesach (Passover) diner tonight and I won't be around much longer.

[Nogrod]

Well, Farael the many-coloured! And as I thought that the loss of my dog was the worst thing to happen...

I'll just have to sleep over this.

But just a question for everyone to think about during the day and the oncoming night: we will not have to decide about this today, but tomorrow we will have to.

How do we make the best use of these shaman-dreams, going to random people? My basic instinct would say, we just come forwards with them, one by one, as we have them. The orcs possibly won't get very far with lying about them (one "found out" -lie - when the dream goes to an orc that tries to save a fellow - would get another orc lynched immediately?) - and the chance of them having a dream is about 1/4.

In the end, I think, it comes down to the question, how much do we believe, that the stars are not against us (with bad luck, we will have just distorted dreams), and how boldly we villagers want to play? We might have good chances with this way of dreaming, even better than in a normal "seer-game" - as the revelation burden can be shared: the revelation not revealing the shaman her/himself?

I admit these thoughts are not thought to the end, but maybe - tomorrow - we all have some balanced ideas about the subject, and can devise the best plan to get rid of this pestilence that has fallen upon our village.

[Celuien]

Oh dear, poor Farael. I shall miss him. I enjoyed mixing hydrochloric acid with zinc over an open fire in his lab. 'Twas quite noisy, but the lights were brilliantly bright.
How do we make the best use of these shaman-dreams, going to random people? My basic instinct would say, we just come forwards with them, one by one, as we have them. The orcs possibly won't get very far with lying about them (one "found out" -lie - when the dream goes to an orc that tries to save a fellow - would get another orc lynched immediately?) - and the chance of them having a dream is about 1/4.
Not a bad plan, except for one thing. If we reveal dreams as we have them, then the Orcs can pick off any known innocents, one-by-one, rendering the dreams useless. What the village needs to do is hold back the identities of innocents until we have enough names collected to make the revealations worth while.

Actually, though, it might not be a bad idea for each of us to find some way of leaving obscure hints so that if someone receives a dream and dies before being able to reveal it, there's still some way of picking up on what was known.

And I sort of have to go pretty soon, though I'll try to come back in several hours...

[Nogrod]

Not a bad plan, except for one thing. If we reveal dreams as we have them, then the Orcs can pick off any known innocents, one-by-one, rendering the dreams useless.

Well that was just the thing I thought about: and this way we win... because they are made to react, rather than act. We will then be always one dream ahead - and at some place, the wolves will be dreamed of too!

Actually, though, it might not be a bad idea for each of us to find some way of leaving obscure hints so that if someone receives a dream and dies before being able to reveal it, there's still some way of picking up on what was known.

I think this is a good working plan too. It is just a bit vague: we won't be able to trust, that the talk of some innocent dead was a hint or just a hunch, if they are obscure enough...

But we will have to think about these both: this day, and the next night.

PS. I do not mean we should use all our day's discussions on these matters - maybe we just all think about these ourselves, maybe commenting on the worst flaws in mine or Celuien's ideas - maybe introducing good new ideas too? Then we could open a real discussion tomorrow?

[Roa_Aoife]

Horrid, filthy things, those orcs. Abominations to Elf and Eru. Poor Farael, having to deal with them. I wish he could have written more on that coat.

This dreaming is interesting. It protects the shaman by making it less necessary to come forward, and helps the village begin to act as a team. (One thing the wolves/orcs/cats/ducks/whatever have always had over the villagers.) It gives us a distinct advantage in that if a villager dreams of a wereorc they can come forward and sacrifice themselves, with out us losing the source of the dreams. Interesting, indeed.

The down side is that it can be misleading. We'll know who the shaman is after they die, but we can't necessarily look at their posts to see what they knew. We won't know which villagers dreamed or not when they die unless they tell us before they die, which they may not have the chance to do if they are killed in the night. The whole thing could turn against us rather quickly.

EDIT: Cross-posted with Nogrod

[Nogrod]

The down side is that it can be misleading. We'll know who the shaman is after they die, but we can't necessarily look at their posts to see what they knew.


That's a good point! I hadn't thought of that yet.

Looks intersting, anyhow.
(And now finally to sleep: I'll be back after some rest)

[Diamond18]

Eepers jeepers, these are meticulous orcs. Farael, dyed to death! *grabs various tools and thingies used in jewel smithing and assumes a defensive stance* I fear for my life. I fear for my cat's life. I fear for the life of my precious jewels. Nasty, thieving orcs will no doubt covet my latest experiment; light absorbing silmarils! Yes! You simply put them out on your windowsill on a sunny day and bring them in at night, whisper a few strangely Spanish sounding Elven words over them, and voila, they cast off the light they absorbed during the day! I've almost got to the point where they don't blow up when you invoke their power. Once I've got that little problem ironed out, I'll be working on various color schemes for the jewels: Excellent Emerald, Groovy Green, Bodacious Blue, Rad Red, etc. Mood lighting. It will be revolutionary.

Those orcs will not have them, I say! Death to all wereorcs!

(What, you were expecting something useful? Oh well. Okay. I agree with Celuien that we don't want to rush to reveal our dreams if we are so lucky to receive them from the Shaman. Keep the information secret as long as possible but leave hints if it seems necessary. I am all in agreement with this plan. More later.)

[Celuien]

*back for a few minutes*

Well that was just the thing I thought about: and this way we win... because they are made to react, rather than act. We will then be always one dream ahead - and at some place, the wolves will be dreamed of too!
Right, but only one dream ahead, making it a hard to amass enough of a proven innocents to unknowns ratio to guide voting effectively.

I think this is a good working plan too. It is just a bit vague: we won't be able to trust, that the talk of some innocent dead was a hint or just a hunch, if they are obscure enough...

Delibrately vague, for now anyway. The Orcsies are watching too, after all...

*goes away again*

[Glirdan]

Wereorcs?? WEREORCS!? What rubbish is this!? I don't hunt wereORCS!! I hunt WEREWOLVES!! What is going on in this village?? Farael!! Please send me a sign as to who these foul beasts are!! Please let me aid our Protector!! I will avenge your death! Even if it is against a species that I don't really have any expertise in!!

How do we make the best use of these shaman-dreams, going to random people? My basic instinct would say, we just come forwards with them, one by one, as we have them. The orcs possibly won't get very far with lying about them (one "found out" -lie - when the dream goes to an orc that tries to save a fellow - would get another orc lynched immediately?) - and the chance of them having a dream is about 1/4.(Nogrod)

I rather like Celuien's reponse to this:

Not a bad plan, except for one thing. If we reveal dreams as we have them, then the Orcs can pick off any known innocents, one-by-one, rendering the dreams useless. What the village needs to do is hold back the identities of innocents until we have enough names collected to make the revealations worth while.

Actually, though, it might not be a bad idea for each of us to find some way of leaving obscure hints so that if someone receives a dream and dies before being able to reveal it, there's still some way of picking up on what was known.

I quite agree with you on this aspect. The one thing I really don't like about your plan Nogrod is that if the Wolves...I mean Orcs, could use the name they recieve and say that that person is an Orc. So I don't think we should really be trusting anyone. It would be very dangerous for us. But that's just my opinion.

The down side is that it can be misleading. We'll know who the shaman is after they die, but we can't necessarily look at their posts to see what they knew. We won't know which villagers dreamed or not when they die unless they tell us before they die, which they may not have the chance to do if they are killed in the night. The whole thing could turn against us rather quickly.(Roa)

This is another good point. I was acutally thinking of that myself. There are quite a few flaws with this idea (not that it isn't a good one) that I really think we should let it be. I also believe that when a villager dreams of someone, they should leave subtle hints throughout the day and if it's quite apparent that someone is about to die, then they should come out (if they have the chance) and say if they've had a dream.

I shall be back later.

[Caranlondien]

Alas and alack! Our poor dear alchemist, dead! My harp shall do naught but weep for Farael until his death has been avenged.

Now, as to killing these nasty orcs... I think Celuien makes a good point about the proposal of having the dreamers come forward immediately with those they dreamed about:
Right, but only one dream ahead, making it a hard to amass enough of a proven innocents to unknowns ratio to guide voting effectively.
I think discretion is in order, and it's a bad idea to make generalizations about how we should act - makes it easier for the wereorcs if we tell them our intentions.

[Roa_Aoife]

I think discretion is in order, and it's a bad idea to make generalizations about how we should act - makes it easier for the wereorcs if we tell them our intentions.

Caran (may I call you that?) makes a good point. I think in the end it will be up to whoever has the dream. Afterall, it's their potential sacrifice.

We ought to move on and discuss strategies for Day 1. Now I know everyone hates Day 1, nothing to go on, random babbling, etc, etc, etc, but Therianthropes have been caught on Day 1 and we have the ability to do so again. I personally don't like random voting- I like to vote for whoever is the most suspicious to me on any given day, no matter how marginal that suspicion is. If, however, you get to the end of today and are completely lost, by all means vote randomly. It's better to make a random vote than not vote at all. You may even get lucky. It's happened before.

Basically, let's get some discussion going so we can avoid the need for random votes.

[Diamond18]

I'm not sure what to talk about past the Shaman strategy, and so far I think I agree with Celuien and Caran both that discretion, and personal judgement, should be used when deciding whether to reveal when one has been given the dream.

Other than that, I'll be working on my silmarils. I.E., waiting for more of the village to post.

[JennyHallu]

Farael...he who taught me the joys of Bunsen burners...shall be sorely missed. But he shall not be missed for very long. Why, you ask?

BECAUSE THE WORLD IS GOING TO END AND WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!

HORRIBLY!!!

*wipes sweat off brow*
*adjusts Sign of Impending Doom*

Anywho...

I've been spending the past several days thinking about the Shaman dreams, and I think I also stand with Celuien. Let's not make things quite so obvious to the Orksies. Now...who among us might be guilty?

Dancing Spawn...you look far too innocent. You too, Roa. I mean really, they're so blazingly white innocent all the time that one of them has got to be evil incarnate.

And Sleepy. The whole idea of a sentient barrel of apples creeps me out. I mean really...you're walking down the street and you hear something, turn around, and all there is is a barrel of apples.

Diamond also worries me. Threat of certain annihilation, and she's playing with sparkly rocks? Doesn't she know the world is ending? I've told her and told her...

Substance maybe later.

(The Jen is fairly sure she is going insane due to scheduling. Hopefully her brain will kick back in. Don't count on it at least until she's had sleep.)

[Celuien]

Might as well get started on the running analysis…
Posted so far:
Nogrod – laments Farael, thinks dreams should be posted as received, says Orcs won’t get far by lying about dreams.
Glirdan – expresses confusion over wereORCS instead of werewolves, vows to avenge Farael’s death. Agrees with me on Nogrod’s plan, adds that we shouldn’t trust anyone too readily since Orcs can lie about dreams. Says to leave subtle hints about dreams unless someone is in danger of dying.
Caranlondien – laments Farael, says I have a point about revealing dreams too quickly. Calls for discretion.
Roa_Aoife – laments Farael, thinks the dreams available to us are interesting since the Shaman is protected, allowing villagers to reveal dreams. Points out that dreams can be misleading since we don’t know which villagers dreamed or what they dreamed if they die without leaving a hint. Agrees with Caran about the need for discretion. Doesn’t like random voting, calls for more discussion so we don’t need to vote randomly.
Diamond18 – laments Farael. Agrees with me that we shouldn’t rush to reveal dreams. Agrees with Caran about needing discretion on the part of dream receivers about revealing dreams. Awaiting more discussion.

Waiting to hear from:
JennyHallu
Grendelien
Findëasëa
Zali
Dancing Spawn
Kitanna
Naria
Sleepy
Legolas in spandex

Well. Let’s see if I can stir things up. If I activate my Random Illuminator™ and turn it on those who haven’t arrived yet, it reveals that Grendelien, Sleepy and Spawn are clearly up to something together. You see, Grendelien whittles the barrels that make up Sleepy the apple barrel (what’s with an Elf turning into a barrel, anyway?), and Spawn sells the apples. Such a bizarre business plan is highly suspicious. :D

EDIT: crossed with Jenny while typing very, very slowly. :rolleyes: She should, of course, be off the non-posters list now.

[Celuien]

And if I may be permitted to double post, let me agree that I hate day 1, with all its data deficient confusion. And that the only thing I dislike more than day 1 is random voting on day 1 if there's a chance to vote for someone truly suspicious.

Discuss away!

[Roa_Aoife]

Quick check in in the middle of ballad writing (Read: Homework)

Dancing Spawn...you look far too innocent. You too, Roa. I mean really, they're so blazingly white innocent all the time that one of them has got to be evil incarnate.

Well, yeah, but what does that have to with wereorcs? :p

[Kitanna]

I become free of the wicked english essay beast only to find trouble waiting for me in the least likely of places.
Well down to business I suppose.


How do we make the best use of these shaman-dreams, going to random people? My basic instinct would say, we just come forwards with them, one by one, as we have them. The orcs possibly won't get very far with lying about them (one "found out" -lie - when the dream goes to an orc that tries to save a fellow - would get another orc lynched immediately?) - and the chance of them having a dream is about 1/4.
I'm not so sure about coming forward right away. I can't really say why, but I just have a feeling we should wait and see before acting, unless an innocent is in true danger of being lynched.
Celiun has stated part of what I think on the subject:
Not a bad plan, except for one thing. If we reveal dreams as we have them, then the Orcs can pick off any known innocents, one-by-one, rendering the dreams useless.
There's something else that bothers me about coming right out aside from that though. Anyone in the villager is able to have the dream, even the wereorcs. I feel if we reveal the dreams as they come and a wereorc has one he/she can manage to bend it to their will, without having to lie. I can't quite explain what I'm getting at, so I'll stop before I ramble myself into a hole.
Also with that plan the shaman is just as likely to get the dream as anyone. So if we reveal the dreams every day if the shaman actually gets one and reveals it we're out on the dreams.
It's probable a villager will only get one dream (if that) the entire game. If one comes forward with a dream of the orc and is innocent and the orcs spare him/her that night the villager may think he/she is an orc and lynch an innocent villager. This is just a terrible downfall to the shaman dreams altogther. [/ramble]

[Diamond18]

Well. Let’s see if I can stir things up. If I activate my Random Illuminator™ and turn it on those who haven’t arrived yet, it reveals that Grendelien, Sleepy and Spawn are clearly up to something together. You see, Grendelien whittles the barrels that make up Sleepy the apple barrel (what’s with an Elf turning into a barrel, anyway?), and Spawn sells the apples. Such a bizarre business plan is highly suspicious. :D

Along those same lines, Caran and Roa are highly suspicious, always hanging out together, Roa writing ballads and Caran playing them on her harp. In fact just the other day I'm sure I heard Roa singing, "Oh I hate that Farael/I want to kill him for real" whilst Caran accompanied her on the harp. If that's not Orcish, I know not what.

(C'mon, let's not hate Day 1 too much, guys. It's the only day you can really post fun nonsense and be in character. :p)

[Caranlondien]

Sure, Roa; "Caran" works for me :D

I guess those of us who have posted thus far have reached the general consensus that dreamers should be cautious and use their own discretion in deciding whether or not to come forward.

So... er, anyone have anything other thoughts on how best to kill those orcs? I'm fresh out of thoughts...

Along those same lines, Caran and Roa are highly suspicious, always hanging out together, Roa writing ballads and Caran playing them on her harp. In fact just the other day I'm sure I heard Roa singing, "Oh I hate that Farael/I want to kill him for real" whilst Caran accompanied her on the harp. If that's not Orcish, I know not what.

Actually, I keep inviting Roa to come sing while I'm playing, but she always says she's busy. I've noticed people always stay away from me when I'm playing my harp (I don't get why!). Maybe I'll play it all night to keep the wereorcs away...

[The 1,000 Reader]

Thanks.

If you need it, I could make a discussion thread for you once the game goes off. Granted, you could easily do the same, but it's the thought that counts.

[Diamond18]

So... er, anyone have anything other thoughts on how best to kill those orcs? I'm fresh out of thoughts...

Well, we could chop off their heads. Or stake them through the heart. Or pelt them with rocks. Or drown them. Or set them on fire. Or we could lock them in a room with you while you play your harp. :D

Or did you mean how to discover them? Right now, beats me. The Shaman got to kick things off with a dream, though, so maybe s/he knows something already and can hint to us. I'll be keeping my eyes peeled.

(That's an idea, we could also peel their skin off! Mwah ha ha ha!)

[Glirdan]

So... er, anyone have anything other thoughts on how best to kill those orcs? I'm fresh out of thoughts...(Caran)

Well, unfortunately, I have expertise in the wereWOLVES area, not the wereORCS. :rolleyes:

I will be back on the morrow with more. For now, I need to go lay down due to this dratted timezone disease. It's really quite a pain and I wish I could cure it, but alas! that cannot happen. For now, discuss away.

[Findëasëa]

These are not good times for the village. Three wereorcs about, and poor Farael gone? Hmmm…at least I know that I will have something to study in an age or so, although those colors might have interfered with the integrity of the sampling. It can be a tough thing, being a paleoelfrolpologist, especially with us elves being immortal and all. I guess I should just stick with artifacts.

I think that the method proposed in which dreams are not revealed daily would be advantageous. People ought not reveal their dreams, or at least not until much later in the game.

[Grendelien]

Oh, what a foul way for our brilliant alchemist to pass! Such a brave elf was Farael, always skipping rocks of sodium on ponds just to bring joy to the faces of younger elves. Sure, there were times when the young ones would get too close to the scene, but that is all part of the learning experience. But let me not prate. Though anecdotes flood my head, I shall only say that our dear Farael will be sorely missed.

Concerning the dream, it's difficult to determine what exactly the dreamer should do because the situation is a double-edged sword. As already stated (sorry I'm repeating almost everyone's thoughts), the dreamer may practice discretion and wait until an appropriate time to give away hints (or the entire dream), and may be killed before revealing it...and on the other hand, if the dreamer tells us the dream, s/he will most likely be killed if the dream is incriminating. I know this isn't much help, so I will just say that I agree with Caranlondien in that we should act how we see best fit, given the situation.

[Naria]

Sorry for the tardiness. I have been away from my garden all day and have just returned. Hmmm....poor poor Farael. He rather enjoyed my flowers and used some species in his experiments. I will gather a bouquet straight away and place it beside his head stone after he receives a proper burial.

Dang blasted Wereorcs, wolves etc!! I would like just one time to relocate to a quite village that stays quite--without something or someone turning into a horrid creature*sigh*. Alas, I am here now and will assist the villagers in any way possible in order to rid yet another place of such foul beings.

Now without reiterating every word....I agree that those whom are granted a dream should not reveal the dreamt of. They should use their discretion and reveal only when they think the time is right. I also agree that the Orcs could very well use that to their advantage and clean out the village one by one.

Since it is quite early in Day 1 and it being Day 1, I do not have suspicions as of yet. I will return in about 9 hours and hopefully come up with something. G'Night all. :)

[Nogrod]

Now without reiterating every word....I agree that those whom are granted a dream should not reveal the dreamt of. They should use their discretion and reveal only when they think the time is right. I also agree that the Orcs could very well use that to their advantage and clean out the village one by one.


I am not intenting to push this matter - I remember those Nogrod vs. the rest of the village situations clearly enough... :D

I just think, that many of you are making hasty judgements on the issue. There is no way that the orcs could benefit from those open revelations, so I think it is more a choice of style to play - or then our advantage - haven't thought about it that much yet.

But really: everytime an orc tries to misuse the dreams, we villagers benefit. Just think my friends. If they don't misuse them, they "use" them (killing the innocent at night), but then again they kill an innocent anyhow, every night.

It's true, that we will lose the possibility of a mass revelation, but then again, mass-revealing could be tricky too - at least if the shaman is dead that time!

Well, this just as food for thought. I'm not sure about this plan myself either, but would like to think it through before tomorrow is at an end.

I'll be joining you in some 4-5 hours time.

[JennyHallu]

Hey guys, I'll be in and out today.

Just wanted to say: Quit obsessing over the dreams already! The village seems to have come to a consensus, and all the people whose idea of helpfulness is to show up and say "I agree" makes me nervous. We are all of us intelligent people, I'm sure we can see when to use the dreams. One aside though...the more we reveal the dreams, the more we narrow down the list for the Orcs of who, precisely, is the Shaman. For this reason it worries me that Nogrod is so fiercely a proponent of a daily reveal.

Let's try to focus on finding an Orc before they squish us all in our beds, shall we? I'd rather prefer the world to end by a cataclysmic earthquake or meteor shower or something, not some smelly old orcs.

[Roa_Aoife]

Naria, could you explain something for me-

I also agree that the Orcs could very well use that to their advantage and clean out the village one by one.

There is no way that the orcs could benefit from those open revelations,

What are you trying to say?

[Sleepy Ranger]

Oh dear me, somebody set us up a bomb! Ahem, well I don't have much time today. But I'll say this- WereOrc Hunting. Serious Business.

My vote on Day 1 shall be random, in fact I think I may go with a safe vote. Hopefully this time round I shan't be lynched/eaten on the first Day/Night. Lets have a good game folks. *Eats an apple.*

[Caranlondien]

Naria, could you explain something for me-
I also agree that the Orcs could very well use that to their advantage and clean out the village one by one.

There is no way that the orcs could benefit from those open revelations,

What are you trying to say?

I think Naria only said the first quote - the second was Nogrod.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Poor Farael! We shall find those Orcs and avenge his death. That said, I'll get down to business.


Many have expressed their opinion about the dreams. I trust that people can make their own minds how to act if they receive a dream, but I'd like to say one thing.

Actually, though, it might not be a bad idea for each of us to find some way of leaving obscure hints so that if someone receives a dream and dies before being able to reveal it, there's still some way of picking up on what was known. Rather than leaving "obscure hints", I'd prefer having reasoned cases. I believe that once we recover from the shock, everyone starts accusing, suspecting and defending other villagers. It is easier to hide a dream into a good case since there will be so many of them around anyway (I hope) that the orcs can't tell which one of the arguments is based on a dream. And if the orcs should kill the one who had the dream, we shall see easily, whom that person dreamed of.

Okay, this post is just to let you know that I finally got here. More later once I've reread everything.

[Nogrod]

And if the orcs should kill the one who had the dream, we shall see easily, whom that person dreamed of.


No! On the contrary: we shall never know, that that person had the dream in the first place! You can't come back from behind the grave to announce, that "btw. I was one who had a dream!". So the dream is completely wasted - and we don't even have the "seer-archives", to give us help on the later date... Believe me: I have really been worried about this disadvantage we have here.

And Jenny: I might be narrowing down the chances for the orcs (hadn't thought of that), but also narrowing the scope for the seer! But I admit, not knowing, which one of these is the heavier thing.

But from a somewhat different reason, I say my plan is a flawed one, and badly. So let's forget it for now...

The reason is as follows. At least a good seer (don't know, how a good shaman would do) would try to find out first about the most experienced and "best" players. If we that way openly reveal them as innocents, then wolves killing them do not look suspicious - even if those people would have hit right before their nightly deaths. So we risk our best villagers by following my plan. Not good.

But that said, this looks quite grim: we will be wasting a lot of dreams and therefore, kind of play without a seer (except if the dream is on an orc, when of course every decent villager voices that out loud and clear).

[Celuien]

Rather than leaving "obscure hints", I'd prefer having reasoned cases. I believe that once we recover from the shock, everyone starts accusing, suspecting and defending other villagers. It is easier to hide a dream into a good case since there will be so many of them around anyway (I hope) that the orcs can't tell which one of the arguments is based on a dream. And if the orcs should kill the one who had the dream, we shall see easily, whom that person dreamed of.
Good point. I really haven't decided what I'll do should I be fortunate enough to be granted a dream.

Not a whole lot of time to post right now. So far, as usual, most of you are looking completely innocent to me. I have a couple of theories, but not enough to post on now, as I haven't enough time to review and attempt to build a case at this point. And there are a few more villagers I'd like to hear more from first.

Oh, and I retract my random triad silliness from earlier. Derned illuminator never did work properly. ;)

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Thanks, Nogrod, that's right, of course, although the Shaman knows whom s/he dreamed of, and therefore should be able to use that kind of information, too, but that's not probably the most relevant subject toDay.

I'll leave the of talk of tactics and move on to doing something else, like commenting on other villagers' behaviour, for example. A couple of things have caught my attention. It is Day 1, yes, but we have to start from something, so...


- Diamond18. She has spoken relatively much, but most of it is occupation-based chatting. Is she a wereorc trying to make her presence clear by posting "fun nonsense in character" to make it clear that she's not flying under the radar because that's what is usually considered suspicious?

- Roa_Aoife. Another villager who's posted a lot - not that it would be a crime, on the contrary. The thing that made me feel uneasy about her was her subtle way to excuse random voting. I personally don't like random voting- I like to vote for whoever is the most suspicious to me on any given day, no matter how marginal that suspicion is. If, however, you get to the end of today and are completely lost, by all means vote randomly. It's better to make a random vote than not vote at all.
Of course everyone should vote for the one they find the most suspicious. I don't think that pulling a name out of a hat and voting for the one that got unlucky helps the village much. People can have strong suspicions or just a feeling about a villager, but it's better to vote with a reason, no matter how silly it is, than to excuse oneself from all responsibility and vote 'randomly' for someone.

Another thing that I wonder is, why Roa wanted to take the time to answer Jenny's accusation of her. She, according to herself, just quickly popped in to check the situation while other business demanded her attention, and still she wrote something to defend her although the accusation seemed to be just normal Day 1 chatting.

Dancing Spawn...you look far too innocent. You too, Roa. I mean really, they're so blazingly white innocent all the time that one of them has got to be evil incarnate.Well, yeah, but what does that have to with wereorcs? :p

- Findëasëa. She has made only one post, in which she settled for telling that there are three wereorcs in the village and Farael is dead. Well, she did agree with a dream issue, but she didn't say why. Where are her own thoughts? Since she appears to be a new arrival, I won't pursue this matter further toDay, though.

- Sleepy Ranger. Serious business, you say? You don't seem to be taking it very seriously...

[Naria]

Roa, I said that because it's true. They will pick us off one by one and someone coming forth and saying so and so is an ordo(for sure) or worse a gifted will definitely ensure that person's death. And yes the orcs will pick us off one by one regardless, but I think that someone saying someone is an ordo will just help the orcs a little too much for my liking.

That being said, I agree that we should just drop this for the time being and concentrate on finding us some Orcsies.

The second quote was not mine, sorry. :)


PS: My computer is going in for servicing right away, but I will try my best to get on a computer somewhere and vote before the Day's end.

[Kitanna]

Day ends in a couple of hours, does it not? Or am I just really messed up timewise?
Well in any case I don't have a whole lot to add. Since my first post I see little that would lead me to be overly suspicious of anyone.

A lot was said on the dreams and it appears everyone has reached a consensus about not revealing the dreams as they come.
Plenty of in character comments, but that's not much to go on.
Nogrod continues to push for the revealing of dreams in post 28.
Sleepy has openly proclaimed a random vote. Not that random voting is bad, but I just wish he'd wait before making such a declaration. A lot can happen from the beginning and end of the day. I suppose it just irks me when a declaration like that is made without the actual vote being in the same post. Meh, but that's just me.
Norgrod continues to his defense of the shaman dreams in post 34. You seem to stand alone on this Nogrod. In a regular seer situation you'd never tell the seer to come forward like you would with the shaman dreams. I say treat each dreamer like a seer and let them come forward from their own judgement. And with that I hope this will be the last time I give my opinion on the subject today.
Spawn has given her thoughts on various villagers and what she has said made sense to me, though I'm not so sure I agree with it all. But those she mentioned (Roa and Diamond mostly) deserve some looking at.

EDIT: So that's most of the major points since I last came on. It is not really much to go on. Most posts have revealed little and been quite unhelpful.

[Caranlondien]

Good point. I really haven't decided what I'll do should I be fortunate enough to be granted a dream.
Nor have I, and it's something I've been giving a lot of thought to. But the only conclusion I can come to is that if and when I dream about someone, my plan of action will depend on a variety of factors - how far into the game, who I dream about, and what I find out about them.

Nice work, Dancing Spawn, on the analysis so far. I'll be looking at those people, but, of course, it's early on, and there are some people we haven't even really heard from yet. I'm still in the stage where I don't have any well-founded suspicions, so instead I just suspect everyone... :rolleyes:

EDIT: cross-posted with Kitanna

[Nogrod]

Ok. I'll get to it too. I have read the whole discussion again and have some remarks.

First of all, I totally agree with Jenny, that the kind of “I agree”-stuff, with no reasoning, or points to clarify their agreement, are suspicious. I would also add, that clearly flawed reasoning is suspicious too. I believe, as Jenny does, that we are all intelligent people, and then flawed reasoning would just point to a deliberate “turning away the discussion” from the real danger for the orcs.

Secondly, I find all who say, that the one can’t do anything on the first day, suspicious (if my memory serves me right, out of the 4 games I have played, we have caught a WW three times on the first day! – for different reasons, to be sure, but nevertheless) – at least, if they use it as a scapegoat to avoid good discussion.

Thirdly: anyone fighting against a good idea is an orc! :D

The third one put aside, here is, what I can say up to now (the "agree"-issue being the shaman-vote):

Celuien plays very-very carefully, but thoughtfully (those random-accusations put aside).

Roa seems to be her reflective self, making good points. Though I can’t understand, how she could have meddled my line to be one of Naria’s, and then asking for explanations from Naria.

Jenny first goes with the current (“I agree” with some bad reasoning), but then goes on to point some grounded reasons for nervousness. Criticises my idea with a good point. Asks for better focus.

Spawn agrees, but demands reasoned cases. Makes somewhat an analysis on other players (or some of them: notes Diamond speaking nonsense, quite fast on suspecting Roa, gives a kind of benefit of doubt to Findëasëa, wonders Sleepy)

Caranlodien agrees with the concensus – also notes that there is one. But clearly gives a point, why it should be accepted (not revealing the “strategy” to the orcs). Is considerate in her last post.



Grendelien makes the "I agree" move with some points, but also bad reasoning.

Glirdan goes too to the “I agree”, but with very bad reasoning (check #9) – and misreads grossly Roa’s ideas on #5.

Kitanna makes the “I agree”, confessing to go by gut feeling – and then giving very bad reasoning indeed. Continuing, in her last post to grossly misunderstand me again (I'm not pushing it forwards any more: I stated, that I found a flaw on it!)...

Findëasëa makes the "I agree" move with no grounds at all.

Naria makes the "I agree" move with some bad reasoning.


NB. Bad reasoning can here be interpreted in various ways. If I would have analyzed myself, I would have used the same characterisation of my first post at least... It's anything from really flawed reasons to thoughtlessness etc.



Diamond acts suspiciously. Mostly chit-chat (in role, I admit), but otherwise just “I agree” with no reasoning + stating, that there is nothing really to do.

Sleepy announces to be voting in random, or safe today, and then pleads everyone not to kill him...

[Caranlondien]

Nogrod, thanks for the synopsis/analysis. I must add that, as a recent newbie myself, I sympathize with Findëasëa and Grendelien. I don't think I'll vote for either of them today, since, whatever other factors are at work in their posts, there's a "newness factor" at work too. The potential confusion caused by newness should wear off in a bit, and until then, I'll be content to keep an eye on them.

Secondly, I find all who say, that the one can’t do anything on the first day, suspicious (if my memory serves me right, out of the 4 games I have played, we have caught a WW three times on the first day! – for different reasons, to be sure, but nevertheless) – at least, if they use it as a scapegoat to avoid good discussion.
I agree - perhaps the only reason things often don't get done on Day 1 is that people just sit around saying how nothing can be done!

From both Nogrod's and Dancing Spawn's lists, I find Diamond18 most suspicious. I tend to view lots of posts that say little of substance as a cover for guilt. Of course, my ancestors have been known to be wrong on that count...

Sleepy seems suspicious too, but I think he's posted too little to really judge. Please do speak up, my dear barrel of apples! (Mmm, apples sound good...)

[Roa_Aoife]

Naria I am terribly sorry. For some reason I read your post and Nogrod's post as one. That's what I get for rushing in before class....

Spawn, my response to Jenny was as much nonsense as the accusation. As for my ideas on random voting- if at the end of the day we have no suspicion to go on, a moderate spread of random votes increases our chances of catching a wolf. I hope to have something to go on, but if others don't, then so be it. Like I said before, a random vote is better than no vote.

EDIT: Cross posted with Caran

[Nogrod]

I know, its a bit early for this kind of considerations, but as I don’t know, when people will have to vote, and when the sleep catches me, I’ll give you my thoughts at the moment (they will probably change, as people post more within last hours). I'll stay myself awake for awhile still, but probably can't be around at the closing-time anyway.

Celuien, Roa, Spawn, Jenny & Caranlodien I would not vote today. They are too good assets / reasonable players for us to lose – even though we can be sure, there is at least one wolf among them (that’s just numbers working in here). If some believable causes for suspicion arise, then I could reconsider.

Then we have this “I agree”-movement with either no reasons to back it or some clumsy or halfhearted backings (“as others have pointed out” etc.), consisting of Glirdan & Kitanna + and the “bandwagon” of Findëasëa Grendelien and Naria. This, I think, is no j’accuse –list, but something I will follow, if I live. Just looking at the “numerology” here too: at least one wolf here also...

Diamond has gone on her own today. Quite recklessly. Somewhat suspicious, to say the least.

Sleepy is again turning on that tune. I don’t like it, but can’t quite vote for him with this information, yet (means, could vote, if there is nothing better to go for).

Azaelia and Legolas iS we haven’t yet seen around...

I agree with Caranlodien, concerning the benefit of doubt to Grendelien and Findëasëa. To begin with.

Anyhow. I also agree with those, that demand at least a fragmentary theory or somehow based suspicion to vote.

I hope, we can come up with one before the day closes...

[Farael]

We interrupt your game to bring you a fantabulous announcement!!

We are the owners of the Barrow Downs and because of an error on a shipment, we are currently over-stocked with wraiths!!! That is right, we have more wraiths than what we can handle so we are practically giving them away!!!

Wraiths have many uses, ask them to scare your friends away, scare your girlfriend so that you can save her or have a week long discussion about who exactly is that Tom Bombadill fellow!!!

Just call 1-800-Oh-My-Wraith and you can get two wraiths for the price of one!! just 1-800-Oh-My-Wraith.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, I'd like to announce that the deadline is 6PM Central Time, 12 AM GMT.

And now, back to the game!!

[Sleepy Ranger]

Ahem, since people want me active, active I shall be. Its Day 1, folks, I don't like Day 1. Recent games I've been facing death on Day 1/Night 1 too often. And yes Spawn serious business, you do realize I could've been busy, right? Had a couple of friends over so I was sorta tied up the entire day but now I'm all yours. And its the norm for all my games, I always state that I shall make a random/safe vote, its been my first post in all games for a while.

Now then, I promise that I shall be a good and productive apple barrel that will aid in capturing those nasty orcses if I'm allowed to survive the Day/Night. I promise! :D

Now then, remember time differences, its late here but I'll stay up for a while longer and vote before I leave. I'm kinda beat and have some work to see to so I won't be able to do all I want to with the game but I promise to be more active tommorrow. :)

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I need to vote now, so without further analysis, I cast my vote for

++ROA_AOIFE

Best of luck to the rest of you.

[Celuien]

++DIAMOND18

She's seemed too ready to be agreeable at the beginning of the day and showed a little too much chit-chat. Others have pointed out the other things that disturbed me about her.

I have to hurry, so no time to further analyse. I'll just say that Nogrod, Caran, Spawn, Kitanna, and Caran seem particularly unsuspicious to me at this time. Reasons given later, if I make it back in time, or toMORROW.

I want to give Grendelien, Findëasëa and Legolas (where is she?? :confused: ) a chance to let any newness wear off before I seriously suspect them.

Glirdan may bear watching.

I'll have to come back to think about Roa, Sleepy and Naria.

I'd like to hear from Zali soon.

[Roa_Aoife]

I don't know how much longer I can be around, so I'm going to vote now.

Diamond and Glirdan have my attention right now. Diamond's lack of content in her many posts looks particulary suspicious; however, I don't think an orc would be so reckless right off the bat. Glirdan on the other hadn't seems overly cautious. All he has really managed to do is restate everyone else's opinion, and I know he is capable of better thought than that. With only a few hours left before close, (I'm not sure how many- the timezones posted have me very confused) I doubt that something more suspicious will come along.

++Glirdan

[JennyHallu]

I'm here, but I'm not going to vote for a while.

Looking most suspicious to me are:

Nogrod for his own reasoning:

Anyone fighting against a good idea is an orc!
Diamond for general hyperness.

Sleepy. I don't like random votes at all, and don't think there's any place for them. Even on a first day, someone is going to stand out, at least a little.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Sleepy. I don't like random votes at all, and don't think there's any place for them. Even on a first day, someone is going to stand out, at least a little.

Jolly Good! I respect your opinion and personally have nothing against random or non-random votes on Day 1 but then again I have little against anything on Day 1. But yeah, for some reason I always suspect anyone who tries to close out the other option. If this was Day 3 or later then yes a random vote would've been weird to say the least even on Day 2 a random vote wouldn't be normal but I see no reason for anyone to say that a random vote isn't acceptable on Day 1. Don't mind my random rant but I dis-like it when people glorify or put down random votes.

In my opinion, Day 1 let people have their way. And yes, this does mean you're free to whatever theorizing you wish.

++JennyHallu

Solely for that comment, yes, I know that my vote choice (and reason) will be dis-liked by most people but I don't see JennyHallu being voted off so yeah... :)

[Glirdan]

Glirdan on the other hadn't seems overly cautious. All he has really managed to do is restate everyone else's opinion, and I know he is capable of better thought than that.(Nogrod)

All I have to say is that I'm having things going on in RL so I can't do as much as I would like to this game. Also, it's a Day 1 and I don't really have much to go on. That's my reasoning. I'm also going to cast a completely random vote for the first name that pops into my head which is

++Sleepy Ranger

Good day.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Apologies, all. School= :p And I'd like to prefeace this with the caution that I am a little bit ill, so if what I say doesn't make sense, that would most likely be why. Just a heads-up.

As to the dream issue brought up back on page 1, I think that it is a matter of the poster's discretion...I would caution against leaving hints behind that are too obvious, though, lest you become the next victim. However, some indication ought to be given so that if you've recieved the dream and are inadvertantly killed the next night or lynched, it would be helpful to have some message to fall back on.

There is more (hooray! for analysis!) coming soon, but I have just been called to supper (for the second time) by a rather insistant parental unit. So I will be back.

Edit: Cross posted with Glirdan...

[Nogrod]

EDIT: Removed... because of a "quote" command using -mistake.

Now as a post #62
(The earlier vote-count is lost already - that shouldn't be a major concerns, as there was just the count))

Sorry.

[JennyHallu]

Yeah, and I think it's spread enough. I need to vote now, and I'm going to vote for

++Diamond18

Just not enough substance.

[Roa_Aoife]

Also, I'd like to announce that the deadline is 6PM Central Time, 12 AM GMT.

Okay, just clearing this up- due to Day-light Savings Time, Central time is now at -5 GMT, so 6 pm CT is 11pm GMT.

[Nogrod]

Okay, just clearing this up- due to Day-light Savings Time, Central time is now at -5 GMT, so 6 pm CT is 11pm GMT.

If it is so, it would be very interesting to know, which one of those times does count! So are we ending the day at 6PM CT (which is 11PM GMT) or at 12PM GMT (which is 7PM CT)?

In short: have got an hour or two left today, as it is now coming 10PM GMT (check the reference from the time this one is posted)?

[Findëasëa]

++Glirdan

His posts had very little substance. He was also quick to choose a random vote and explain away his lack of posts.

[Nogrod]

++Glirdan

His posts had very little substance. He was also quick to choose a random vote and explain away his lack of posts.

Please bold your vote!

Farael! I think you should count this anyway...

[Farael]

Okay, just clearing this up- due to Day-light Savings Time, Central time is now at -5 GMT, so 6 pm CT is 11pm GMT.
Yikes!! Forgot about Day-light Savings Time..... ok, today will end 7CT or 12 GMT, just in case anyone made plans otherwise.... then we'll go to 6 CT which will be 11 GMT.

And by the way, Roa and Nogrod shall die tonight, becasue the mod is never wrong and those who prove him wrong are heretics :D

++++Roa
++++Nogrod
(no, my votes don't count, just ignore it)

Edit
Farael! I think you should count this anyway...
Don't worry, I can do such choices myself ;) I messed up the timezones but other than that I'm not doing so bad....

[Nogrod]

Sorry: I messed around quite a bit!

I thought of updating the vote-list and then took it with the "quote" and not just painted it! Now my update is, where my earlier vote-count was! (and the earlier has gone away) I'll take it off, and repost the current one here.

Won't be making that mistake again!

Originally Posted by Nogrod
Farael! I think you should count this anyway...

Don't worry, I can do such choices myself I messed up the timezones but other than that I'm not doing so bad....

I trust you in all you do!

But if we want to be clear about the situation, I hope we can count on that approval...

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

As promised... The Analysis... Within the categories, there is no particular order.

Nogrod: He seems normal enough. Nothing that he's been saying is sending up any red flags.

Celuien: Logically pointed out that revealing dreams is going to get us "picked off one by one".

Diamond: Posts are chatty, cheerful, and in character...pretty much standard procedure for the first day...It wouldn't be a problem except that the majority of them are that way. I just don't see much substance. I'm willing to let it slide for now, being, as it is, the first day. It does earn her a place on the "watch me" list.

Glirdan: Is busy in RL, makes a random vote. I'm putting him on my "watch list", because as I said before, I really don't like random votes.

Caranlondien: Suggests that dreamers come straight out, which is flawed because it would be very easy for an Orc to have a dream about an innocent and then point them out as an orc. I like her later assesment that so little happens on day ones just because we all sit around saying that nothing can happen.

Roa_Aoife: I don't like the suggestion that a random vote is better than no vote at all. The truth is that neither is a good option, and I would personally prefer to abstain from voting than to make a random vote.

Kitanna: First post is strong and to the point. She makes some good points, and for now, I am not worried about her.

Findeasea: Has posted too little to really register on the radar for me. I'm content to wait, though I'd like to hear more from her as time goes by.

Grendelien: See above

Naria: And...wow. Another see above.

JennyHallu: Is logical and tries to move discussion along.

Sleepy Ranger: Without participating in the discussion at all, he can proclaim from his first post that his vote will most likely be random or safe. It sends up a flag for me. To just expect your vote to be random is to overlook some things that could possibly be staring you right in the face. So he goes on the Watch Me! list.

Dancing Spawn: Looks innocent and logical to me, at least for now.

Farael: Appearing from beyond the grave to make a (quite funny) post of nonsense on the subject of wraiths... Suspicious. :p Just kidding.

Legolas in Spandex: Hasn't shown up yet. Where are you?

The following lists may be completely wrong, but hey, I have to start somewhere. The fact that only three people wound up in my watch me! category may or may not be suspicious. I won't be so bold as to claim that they are orcs as of yet, but I think that they bear watching, at any rate.

Leaning towards Innocent.
Me
Dancing Spawn


Watch Me!
Diamond
Sleepy
Glirdan


Hasn't shown up:
Legolas in Spandex


Don't know.
Caranlondien
Nogrod
Grendelien
Findëasëa
Celuien
Glirdan
Naria
Roa_Aoife
Kitanna
Jenny

[Nogrod]

After my being an idiot, here's the current vote, with my comments...

An update, considering Findëasëa's vote legal, due to her inexperience. I guess we all agree (well Glirdan possibly not, but... ) that interpretation?

Roa 1 (Spawn I)
Diamond 2 (Celuien II, Jenny VI)
Glirdan 2 (Roa III, Findëasëa VII)
Jenny 1 (Sleepy IV)
Sleepy 1 (Glirdan V)

Even though I have my suspicions on Diamond and Glirdy: they have played quite unsubstantially, comparing to their normal behaviour, and Diamond maybe somewhat weirdly, but I still just don't quite feel at home with this one. Well, who should there be in front? I don't know...

Happily we have some time left.

I would very much like to hear something from Diamond.

[Kitanna]

The people who have been voted for are pretty spread out it looks like.
Roa~ What Spawn said against Roa made sense, but it's not enough for me to vote for her myself.
Diamond~ Her behavior has been noted as odd today. She stated earlier she is pretty much enjoying her in character oppurtunites of day one. For today I'm going to just let that slide, but if it continues into tomorrow...
Glirdan~ Don't really have an opinion on him. I don't find him overly suspicious in any way.
Jenny~ Same as Glirdan.
Sleepy~ I'm annoyed by Sleepy's vote for Jenny. He stated he was going to vote randomly and Jenny voiced her opinion about it. A rather childish way to vote. Sleepy knew his vote was going to meet with disapproval, he has been pleading for us to let him stay alive. It would seem like far too wreckless a thing for someone to do, but past experiences have taught us wreckless actions mean little when it comes to werecreatures. Tempted to vote for him...

++ Sleepy Ranger

I don't even care if my reasons are bad. The plea for life (for lack of a better phrase) on Day one, before any suspicions had been cast on him is too much for me. It would appear to be foolish for a wereorc, but nothing ever seems to be too foolish in these games.

[Caranlondien]

Caranlondien: Suggests that dreamers come straight out, which is flawed because it would be very easy for an Orc to have a dream about an innocent and then point them out as an orc. I like her later assesment that so little happens on day ones just because we all sit around saying that nothing can happen.
I didn't suggest that dreamers come straight out; I said that the suggestion that dreamers come straight out was flawed... I think that's what you meant to say?

I'm torn about my vote. My gut instinct is for Diamond18 over Sleepy, because she's been talkative without saying much of substance. But that's really very little to go on... however, since it's Day 1 and there's no voting record to go by (and I'm not sure I'll be able to get back before time's up), I'll have to go with my gut.

++Diamond18

[Diamond18]

Is the game ending in 6 minutes or an hour? Good god, I have come in very late (got very screwed up about the time) and I don't know if I have to quickly vote, which I don't want to do since I haven't had a chance to read all the posts. Please say I have an hour.

[Farael]

You do have another hour, read above

Why do I keep on talking in my own game? I love it though, I miss playing WW.... maybe I should join this game =P I bet you villagers would love that.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Caranlondien you should've voted for me. :)

[Nogrod]

Caranlondien: Suggests that dreamers come straight out, which is flawed because it would be very easy for an Orc to have a dream about an innocent and then point them out as an orc.

Kitanna: First post is strong and to the point. She makes some good points, and for now, I am not worried about her.


I wouldn't like to bring this to the fore again, but well. I just feel I have to (remember Jenny's point on me: fighting against a good idea...)

Anyone bored with the topic should run over this message. It is not intended as a general discussion topic at this hour.
So please see this point you make on Caranlodien (probably isn't her point, but mine, but anyhow, that's not the point, the argument is).

Yes, it would be easy for an orc to have a dream about an innocent and then to point her/him as an orc. But what then? We lynch an innocent and discover the innocence. Do you think, we will have any trouble finding the one to lynch the next day, as this deceiving has been revealed by the death of an innocent? The exchange ratio of 1:1 (villager vs. wolf) is more than good!

And to Kitanna's points. F.ex. Should the shaman reveal a dream s/he has gotten to her/himself? Of course not! That would be the stupidest thing to do! Or the second point about a villager having a dream about an orc, revealing it, and then be spared by the wolfs - and lynched the day after! Hello! If someone reveals an orc dream, then that orc will be lynched and we are one point nearer to the goal! Why should we run lynching someone, who has given us an orc?

The only problem here I see is an orc betraying a fellow orc, and thus achieving credibility by helping in the lynch of an orc. But I don't see, why we should be running to declare all the dreamers innocent? The dreamed-of's are innocent (or wolves, but known one's), not the dreamers.

But as I said much earlier, there are other problems in this plan (#34), and I don't support it any more!

Let's get back to today's bussiness... Just had to defend an idea from wrong accusations.

[Celuien]

Another hour? Nice. I thought I would have a chance to come back.
Caranlondien you should've voted for me.
Rather strange.

I wonder. Should I regret my vote for Diamond?

At the same time, it's an awfully brazen thing for an orc to say.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Rather strange.

I wonder. Should I regret my vote for Diamond?

At the same time, it's an awfully brazen thing for an orc to say.

Oh me, I'm just strange, contradictory and weird in general. Ok time for an obnoxious confession, I've been trying to get myself lynched today. Why? Maybe I'll tell you later but anyway it seems I won't be getting lynched today... Lets see what happens. *Eats an apple.* Theres plenty if anyone wants one. :)

[Roa_Aoife]

Don't mind him- he's been killed either on Day 1 or Night 1 of the past few games he's been in, and he's trying to go for a record.

...Dork...

[Nogrod]

Oh me, I'm just strange, contradictory and weird in general. Ok time for an obnoxious confession, I've been trying to get myself lynched today. Why? Maybe I'll tell you later but anyway it seems I won't be getting lynched today... Lets see what happens. *Eats an apple.* Theres plenty if anyone wants one. :)

You really put us, who have not voted yet (six with my count), into a very weird situation Sleepy! You are playing now with quite high stakes... and I'm not sure, whether it is wise for the village, or for you.

As I go through the thread, I find myself in trouble concerning who to vote for, and then you come and just offer us every reason to lynch you! Maybe you really want to get out of the game, or then are a cunning wolf - more cunning than in the last game? You puzzle me...

If you are innocent, and we lynch you, its just a needless death - and we are one down...

EDIT: X-posted with Roa - and kind of see her point, and that would be weird...

[Diamond18]

Okay. Good.

Alright, I'm going to apologize in advance for this post, because I just spent the last 20 minutes having a panic attack because as soon as I made my post, the 'Downs stopped responding, and then other things started going wonky on my computer, and I was literally swearing like a sailor at it and running around in circles screaming. Well okay, not the circles part. But my hands did start to shake, which makes me think I'm far too invested in this. I'll leave the disturbing self-analysis for another time, however.

Okay, a quick and panicked review of the posts reveals that I've come under a lot of suspicion for my in character comments early in the day. This, I find absurd. It's Day 1, and what's more it was early in Day 1 when I made my posts. I don't see the point of picking characterizations if actually putting them to use is "nonsense" and "unsubstantial" and worthy of getting lynched. Excuse me for trying to have a little fun in this game, instead of pretending to find something in nothing. I have to admit I find it a little funny watching people analyze little nothing posts, saying that they hate Day 1 because there's nothing to go on, then jumping on people for no apparent reason. I think a little lightening up is in order. The times when werecreatures have been successfully lynched on Day 1 are probably more luck than anything, or the work of a lucky Seer who had a successful first night dream. So you won't see me sitting around going, "S/he posted mostly in character the first day, how worthless, let's lynch!" Tomorrow I'll actually try to find meaning in all this. But what I see now is mostly villagers casting about in the dark, and to lynch someone because she was trying to enjoy the game when there was nothing else really to do is just silly.

I would be more inclined to vote for people who didn't show up at all, or posted very short posts that were neither in character nor having a theory of their own. I was at least getting something out of the game.

That all said, I'm going to have to vote for Glirdan if I want to save my own butt. Whether he's innocent or guilty I have no idea, but it seems the way the votes have gone that's my wisest choice.

+ + Glirdan

Anyway, excuse the somewhat upset tone of this post, because I'm still worked up into a frenzy over my computer trying to drive me insane and was sure for a few minutes there that I had completely missed the deadline.

[Celuien]

Oh me, I'm just strange, contradictory and weird in general. Ok time for an obnoxious confession, I've been trying to get myself lynched today. Why? Maybe I'll tell you later but anyway it seems I won't be getting lynched today... Lets see what happens. *Eats an apple.* Theres plenty if anyone wants one. :)
I see. Attempted Nilp impersonation. But you should have voted for yourself instead of Jenny to do that properly. :rolleyes: Still doesn't get you off the hook as far as I'm concerned.

At any rate, Jenny expressed suspicion of Nogrod here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=460655&postcount=49). I tend to believe in his innocence because of the discussion over his plan to reveal dreams. I disagree with the plan, and still think that it would benefit the orcs. BUT, if Nogrod were an orc, I would have expected him to back off as soon as potential orc benefits were pointed out. Instead, he defended the idea while admitting flaws, which seems to indicate genuine motivation rather than orcish scheming. Besides, he's generally been well-reasoned and informative today.

[Nogrod]

Diamond!

It's so nice to see you back as your usual self! My suspicions are dropped immediately... for the time being, of course. :rolleyes:

[Roa_Aoife]

Diamond!

It's so nice to see you back as your usual self! My suspicions are dropped immediately... for the time being, of course.

She may not last the day Nogrod. I believe she's in the lead for votes.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Attempted Nilp impersonation? I have no idea what you're talking about... all I'm doing is being myself... >_>

Anywho, I'm not trying to get off the hook, I'm trying to get lynched and if I don't get lynched on Day 1 or killed during Night 1, I'll behave and actually play properly... :)

So anyway,
Dear Were-Orcs,
Kindly kill me during Night 1. Thank you- Barrel Of Apples.

Oh and by the way, I believe Diamond's alright, she has the right mind-set in my opinion. *Tosses an apple at Diamond.*

[Roa_Aoife]

Roa 1 (Spawn I)
Diamond 3 (Celuien II, Jenny VI, Caran IX)
Glirdan 3 (Roa III, Findëasëa VII, Diamond X)
Jenny 1 (Sleepy IV)
Sleepy 2 (Glirdan V, Kitanna VIII)

Diamond reached 3 first, so she's currently the one slated for death.

[Celuien]

Attempted Nilp impersonation? I have no idea what you're talking about... all I'm doing is being myself... >_>

Anywho, I'm not trying to get off the hook, I'm trying to get lynched and if I don't get lynched on Day 1 or killed during Night 1, I'll behave and actually play properly... :)

Oh dear, we have another crazed Elf on our hands. What's in those apples? :eek:

I'm starting to feel bad about voting for Diamond. Upset tone of post completely understandable. :(

[Nogrod]

If I have this right, the leading candidates are:

Diamond 3
Glirdan 3
Sleepy 2

Sleepy seems to wish to die, but that may not be wise, because he might be innocent anyhow.

Glirdan has not been so bad, as his numbers tell him to have been.

Diamond I feel innocent - was unhappy with her lead in votes all the time - even though wondered myself her way of playing at the beginning...

Let's focus now, the rest of us!

Grendelien?
Zali?
Naria?
Legolas iS? (where are you???)

EDIT: X-posted with Roa & Celuien

[Roa_Aoife]

With 10 minutes left in the day, Nogrod had better get his vote in.

Edit: As well as Grendelien, Zali, Naria, and Legolas iS

[Celuien]

Legolas iS? (where are you???)
She's online now, viewing the Mirth Forum at last check. I posted on the TiG thread to see if I could get her to switch to invisible mode and stop in before the deadline...

[Sleepy Ranger]

Nogrod! Vote for me, there may yet be hope! :D *Tosses Nogrod an apple.*

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I didn't suggest that dreamers come straight out; I said that the suggestion that dreamers come straight out was flawed... I think that's what you meant to say?


My bad. Yes, that's what I meant. My apologies--I told you I wasn't feeling well ;)

Sleepy, what's this? Channeling the famous Nilp, are we?

I'm going to have to vote now, and honestly, it's between Sleepy and Glirdan. I'm happy to give Diamond the benefit of the doubt for now. Her most recent post indicates innocence to me.

I agree with Kitanna that sleepy's move at the beginning of the day was a bit bold for a wereorc. But he and Glirdan send up equally red flags, for reasons I have discussed before.

I think I'll vote

++Glirdan

today. I have already expressed my reasons for suspicion of him, so I am going to act on it. My apologies, Glirdan, if you're innocent. It's the first day, and while this vote is based on actual suspicion (That I've already mentioned in my analysis before), there really isn't much to go on yet.

[Grendelien]

Ah, I've been beating my brains over this this choice for some time..this is a very difficult decision to make. It is true that Diamond18's posts lack significant substance, which is suspicious, but the detailed analyses of each elf (or orc) by certain players, such as Celuien and Norgrod could be a diversion. It's really hard to say. My suspicions of everyone are high at this point. However, I will have to cast my vote for

++Glirdan

mostly because I am suspicious of some of those who voted for Diamond18. I know this is not a good reason to vote for someone, but it's the only reason I have at this point.

[Diamond18]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Nogrod. I will be rather upset if I'm lynched today simply because I was enjoying myself. Makes the whole Werewolf endeavor here seem like a rather bleak and ungamelike experience, when the first and foremost reason for lynching someone is that you don't appreciate her roleplaying. Though I suppose being absent for a long time made me more suspicious than anything. I didn't go to bed last night until 7 AM, so I somewhat overslept. :rolleyes: Still, I haven't been the most inactive player in this game. :(

[Nogrod]

Am I the only one to vote here?

I could give Sleepy his death if he wants to, but it would take two!

Glirdan is useful, normally, if not an orc, and Diamond probably more so... I was quite taken by the honesty of her annoyance.

EDIT: X-posted with the last QUITE MANY - THOUGHT OF TWO...

[Grendelien]

Sorry I spelled your name wrong, Nogrod!...my fingers just don't want to cooperate today.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Am I the only one to vote here?

I could give Sleepy his death if he wants to, but it would take two!

Glirdan is useful, normally, if not an orc, and Diamond probably more so... I was quite taken by the honesty of her annoyance.

EDIT: X-posted with the last two

Oh just vote for me, it'll make me like myself more. :)

[Nogrod]

Oh just vote for me, it'll make me like myself more. :)

Well, as Glirdan is lynched already, I might fulfill your wish...

++ Sleepy

[Diamond18]

I X-posted with a few people voting for Glirdan. Whew, I feel like I wriggled off the hook.

I'm too frazzled right now to really be supsicious of anyone, but I have to say all theses posts should make excellent reading over the Night and there might be lots of suspicious behavior to talk about tomorrow.

It is true that Diamond18's posts lack significant substance, which is suspicious, but the detailed analyses of each elf (or orc) by certain players, such as Celuien and Norgrod could be a diversion.

I must say I am usually somewhat suspicious of analysis as substance, myself. All you have to do is post a summary of what other people have said. But since everyone it seems does analysis, it's somewhat a staple of the game, for better or worse. I just have my doubts as to how useful it really is when judging how much someone has contributed to the discussion. Still something I have to form an opinion on, as I play more games.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Why thank you Nogrod my friend! And due to this silly promise I made in some earlier post, I'll play normally on Day 2 and work to aid the village rather than trying to meet my own selfish desires. :rolleyes:

PS- WereOrcs, please kill me! :D

[Roa_Aoife]

I must say I am usually somewhat suspicious of analysis as substance, myself. All you have to do is post a summary of what other people have said.

Hey, analyzing posters like a certain penguin lover by the name Thin is hard work. :p

[Nogrod]

But since everyone it seems does analysis, it's somewhat a staple of the game, for better or worse. I just have my doubts as to how useful it really is when judging how much someone has contributed to the discussion.

They have proved to be useful many times...

[Farael]

STOP!!!

I wanna go home... take off this uniform, and leave the show. But I'm waiting in this cell because I have to know!! (have to know...) have I been guilty all this time....

No more posting, death scene coming RRRRRRRIGHT up.

[Farael]

The scrolls go on to tell us how the villagers argued their way into a lynching on the first day. It was not an easy process but after many thought and deliberation (and some random votes) it was decided that Glirdan was to be given the noose.

It was a figurative noose, as instead they decided to strap the werewolf hunter onto one of Diamond’s light-absorbing Silmarils and turn it on. Yet as soon as they had him tied up and secured, a terrible transformation occurred. He sprouted lots of hair and big fangs, his voice turned gruff and his gaze deadly. Glirdan was a werewolf!!!

Glirdan: “You fools, I am not a wereorc”

Nogrod: “Well, I see, but you are still a werewolf! Consequently, my theory says that we should kill you all the same”

Glirdan: “But didn’t you read what Farael wrote? He was attacked by wereORCS not wereWOLF.”

JennyHallu: “Who cares? The world is going to end, kill him anyway!!!! He’ll just be the first of many”

SleepyRanger: “No, I say you kill me!!”

Celuien : “Oh, shut up, you are just an apple barrel, you are not even supposed to be talking!!!”

Glirdan: “So, will you please let me go now?”

Roa_Aoife: “Well, I guess so… but only if’

Thud

Naria: “What was that?”

Thud
Thud
Thud

Findëasëa: “Is it… no, it can’t be… but it is!!”

Diamond: “Sleepy!! Stop throwing apples at him!!”

SleepyRanger: “But he stole my thunder!! I wanted to set a new record of lynchments”

Nogrod: “Lynchations you mean”

SleepyRanger: “What ever…”

Glirdan: “ughhugmp umph umphhhhhhhh sssss”

Azaelia: “What? Speak up man! Or elf… or werewolf, what ever you are”

Glirdan: “ughhugmp umph umphhhhhhhh sssss”

Azaelia: “Stop playing games and get that apple off your mouth.. what are you trying to tell us?”

But it was too late. Glirdan was actually begging them to take the apple of his mouth, as he was choking on it and his hands were tied. As a show of respect, the villagers decided to bury him and to put a light-absorbing Silmaril as a headstone, under the agreement that no-one would turn it on and blow the grave up.

An innocent villager…. Or sort of… has died. Here’s the list of the still living.

Caranlondien: aspiring harpist
JennyHallu: Doomsday prophet
Nogrod: unemployed barber.
Grendelien: village whittler
Findëasëa: paleoelfropologist
Celuien:lampwright
Zali: stringer-of-bows
Diamond: Inept Jewel Smith
Dancing Spawn...: a merchant
Kitanna:(still playing? If so thou shall be...) The town's gate-keeper
Naria:The grower of magnificent flowers
Sleepy A barrel of apples*
Legolas in spandex:For now he shall be Legolass (A movie-Legolas impersonator) unless he gives me another role
Roa_Aoife aspiring ballad writer

3 Wereorcs, 1 Ranger and 1 Shaman are still alive..

Now dead:
FaraelMod: He dyed… erm I mean died.
GlirdanRepentant werewolf : Choked on an apple. No wonder why werewolves are carnivores.

Edit: Wereorcs, you can PM each other and send me your night's kill BEFORE 6PM CT, 11 PM GMT

Shaman, your dream must be in before the same deadline

Ranger, I need your pick.

No one but the Wereorcs may PM with regards to this game.

[Legolas in spandex]

Sorry i missed day 1. I have been wandering about with a dumb expression on my face trying to figure out what to do. I see I post here. I'll try to remember that.See you day#2 or later, whatever day it is. (feels stupid & confused)

[Farael]

Legolas PLEASE, remove your post in here, it belongs in the TiG thread

[Farael]

A new day arises

The villagers gathered on the town square and quickly counted how many people there were present. Everyone seemed to have survived the night.

Grendelien : “Hurray!! The wereorcs have fled, my friends, we have scared them away!!”

Celuien: “But then we should be three people short, whoever the wereorcs are they have not left the town”

SleepyRanger: “I am one of them! Lynch me today, it’s not too late for me to keep my record going!”

Legolas in Spandex: “Oh, shut up… you are not a wereorc. Or maybe you are, but in either case I will not lynch you solely because you want us to”

JennyHallu: “But then what should we do next?”

Nogrod: “According to my theory, we need to lynch three wereorcs”

Naria: “Way to go, Captain Obvious… we knew that already”

Nogrod: “You knew it? Perhaps you know too much, are you a wereorc Ms. Naria?”

Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant: “Please, now, let’s not argue… we can use logic to find the wereorcs, if we all think with our brains rather than our fists”

Diamond18: “Who crowned you Queen of this town? You have no right to boss us around!”

Spawn: “That’s it I’m beating the stuffing out of you!!”

Roa_Aoife: “Here, here now… let’s save all that anger for our wereorc hunt, ok?”

And right there and then, someone threw a talking apple barrel to someone else, who responded by tossing them a chair and a big fight ensued. Sadly, the records say that it was a cartoon fight, which means that a big cloud of smoke arose and nothing could be seen other than random limbs and blunt objects moving around. One villager stood aside, though, far too tired after a successful night of protecting one of the villagers.

Two hours later, the villagers had spent their anger on each other and were ready to start looking for those wereorcs. The Ranger has protected the wereorc’s target for yesterNight. Still living,

Caranlondien: aspiring harpist
JennyHallu: Doomsday prophet
Nogrod: unemployed barber.
Grendelien: village whittler
Findëasëa: paleoelfropologist
Celuien:lampwright
Zali: stringer-of-bows
Diamond: Inept Jewel Smith
Dancing Spawn...: a merchant
Kitanna:(still playing? If so thou shall be...) The town's gate-keeper
Naria:The grower of magnificent flowers
Sleepy A barrel of apples*
Legolas in spandex:For now he shall be Legolass (A movie-Legolas impersonator) unless he gives me another role
Roa_Aoife aspiring ballad writer

3 Wereorcs, 1 Ranger and 1 Shaman are still alive..

Now dead:
FaraelMod: He dyed… erm I mean died.
GlirdanRepentant werewolf : Choked on an apple. No wonder why werewolves are carnivores.

Wereorcs, STOP PM'ing.... villagers, you may post now. You have until 6 PM CT or 11 PM GMT (which is the same) to have your votes in. Legolas, if you don't post or vote today I shall remove you from the game.

[Celuien]

Everyone still alive. Now that's some good news to start the day. Thanks to our Ranger for a job well done!

I'll be reviewing and analysing for awhile. Expect a post in a little bit.

[Nogrod]

I agree with Celuien, that this really was good news! Three hurraahs to our ranger!

But there's the downside also. As I said yesterday, I felt quite uneasy about our forerunners (Diamond, Glirdan, later Sleepy) and in the end, we lynched an innocent man ourselves. Hope we can do better today.

The problem just is, that we seem to have no clue yet. Skillful orcs, I'm afraid...

And my personal problem is this particular day. I have now some time, and try to do something useful. Then I might have occasional chances to drop in (and try to read everything at least), and can join you only at the very late hours of the day. So no "flying under the radar stuff", just RL making demands...

[Celuien]

Starting off with the voting record from yesterday, summarized for your convenience:

Spawn -> Roa_Aoife (Roa – 1)
Celuien -> Diamond18 (Roa – 1, Diamond18 – 1)
Roa_Aoife -> Glirdan (Roa – 1, Diamond18 – 1, Glirdan –1)
Sleepy -> Jenny (Roa – 1, Diamond18 – 1, Glirdan –1, Jenny –1)
Glirdan -> Sleepy (Roa – 1, Diamond18 – 1, Glirdan –1, Jenny –1, Sleepy – 1)
Jenny -> Diamond18 (Roa – 1, Diamond18 – 2, Glirdan –1, Jenny –1, Sleepy – 1)
Findeasea -> Glirdan (Roa – 1, Diamond18 – 2, Glirdan – 2, Jenny –1, Sleepy – 1)
Kitanna -> Sleepy (Roa – 1, Diamond18 – 2, Glirdan – 2, Jenny –1, Sleepy – 2)
Caran -> Diamond18 (Roa – 1, Diamond18 – 3, Glirdan – 2, Jenny –1, Sleepy – 2)
Diamond18 -> Glirdan (Roa – 1, Diamond18 – 3, Glirdan – 3, Jenny –1, Sleepy – 2)
Zali -> Glirdan (Roa – 1, Diamond18 – 3, Glirdan – 4, Jenny –1, Sleepy – 2)
Grendelien -> Glirdan (Roa – 1, Diamond18 – 3, Glirdan – 5, Jenny –1, Sleepy – 2)
Nogrod -> Sleepy (Roa – 1, Diamond18 – 3, Glirdan – 5, Jenny –1, Sleepy – 3)

Did not vote: Legolas, Naria.

Coming soon to a village near you: Glirdan voter analysis.

[Nogrod]

Here's the tally from yesterday, as it has not been seen yet.

Roa 1 (Spawn I)
Diamond 3 (Celuien II, Jenny VI, Caran IX)
Glirdan 5 (Roa III, Findëasëa VII, Diamond X, Zali XI, Grendelien XII)
Jenny 1 (Sleepy IV)
Sleepy 3 (Glirdan V, Kitanna VIII, Nogrod XIII)

Didn't vote: Naria, Legolas iS

Just primary thoughts about the non-voters.

Legolas seemed to have totally missed the game start and as a first-timer, I'm wholeheartedly giving her the benefit of doubt from not voting.

Naria just vanished, but as she left us with a note on a computer problem, so no reason to suspect her more than usually...

I try to do something more useful in a minute, but then I will have to get some sleep.

EDIT: X-posted with Celuien - well: cross-checking is always good... (and the statistics are given in a bit different manner) :rolleyes:

[Nogrod]

Celuien!

If you do the Glirdan vote, I'll go for the overall suspicions - innocence -claims. It could be interesting to see how they went (and as there seems to be very little to say, as no one else is around).

[Celuien]

X-posted with Celuien - well: cross-checking is always good... (and the statistics are given in a bit different manner) :rolleyes:
It is. :)

And actually, I'd appreciate cross checking of the forthcoming analysis from anyone who is so inclined.

The non-voters' not voting doesn't really tell us much, I think. Legolas iS wasn't here at all, so her non-vote doesn't mean anything. And Naria...well, I'll just add Naria to my analysis, though I doubt I'm going to find anything.

I'll add Sleepy too, once I see something from toDAY to contrast with yesterday.

*Back to typing*

[Celuien]

Celuien!

If you do the Glirdan vote, I'll go for the overall suspicions - innocence -claims. It could be interesting to see how they went (and as there seems to be very little to say, as no one else is around).

Heh. My turn to have crossposted.

Sounds like a good plan.

[Roa_Aoife]

w00t! Go Mr./Ms. Ranger! Excellent choice.

I don't know how long I'l be in, but as Celuien is doing the Glirdan analysis, and Nogrod is checking accusations vs defense, I'll do the Diamond Bandwagon. Sound good?

Edit: Cross posted with last two posts.

[Nogrod]

Nogrod is checking accusations vs defense, I'll do the Diamond Bandwagon. Sound good?


I thought of finding out only, who suspected who, and who thought who innocent. I might not have time for the defences - even though they might really be interesting. Maybe someone else could look at them?

But good plan Roa! There might be something in this Diamond-lynching fever...

[Celuien]

Roa:
#5: Says Orcs are horrid and filthy (yep). Thinks dreams are interesting because they protect the Shaman and help the village act as a team, but might also be misleading. (another yep).
#11: Agrees with Caran that revealing dreams is up to the discretion of the villager to receive the dreams. Suggests moving on to day 1 strategies, since there is the chance to catch an orc from the start, also says a random vote is better than none, then urges discussion so we won’t need random votes.
#16: Responds to Jenny’s accusation of looking too innocent by asking with the accusation has to do with wereorcs.
#29: Asks Naria to explain contradictory statements (Orcs using dreams to their advantage and also having no way to benefit from them) after mistakenly attributing the second statement (Nogrod’s) to her.
#41: Apology to Naria, explains nonsense response to Jenny from #16 after being questioned about it by Spawn.
#47: Suspects Diamond and Glirdan: Diamond for lack of substance and Glirdan for being capable of more than restating others’ opinions, but only posting restatements. Votes for Glirdan, citing suspicions and time constraints.
#70: Tells everyone to ignore Sleepy’s campaign for votes, saying he’s going for a killed on day/night 1 record.
#75: Says Diamond may not last the day, points out she was leading in votes.
#77: Vote count, again points out Diamond is the most likely lynchee.
#80: Warning to get votes in before deadline.
#92: Says analysis is hard work (response to Diamond’s doubts about the usefulness of analysis).

Roa appears to have contributed to the discussion yesterday, particularly about the Shaman dream issue. Spawn found her suspicious (and voted for her) based on 1) subtle excuse of random voting (#11) and 2) responding to Jenny's joking accusation. I agree that those things are somewhat suspicious, especially with regard to random voting, since her post on that topic wavered back and forth a little. But, weighed against the rest of her contributions, it doesn't look too bad. Overall, I'd say Roa is mostly innocent appearing.

What, you thought all five would be in this post? Sorry. I don't type that fast. :p

Findëasëa next...

[JennyHallu]

Yay! We're all still here!!!

Although...I almost wish we did know who the wolves had gone after...might have given us some good hints. Awaiting your analysis with interest, Celuien.

Hubby's got me playing computer games, though, so I won't be getting any analyses of my own right now.

[Celuien]

Findëasëa:
#24: Typical day 1 stuff about the village being in trouble, in character, etc. Agrees that dreams shouldn’t be revealed daily. (Well, I can’t disagree here, that being my position and all.)
#56: Votes Glirdan, citing little substance in posts and his being random/having a lack of posts.

Not much to go on here with only two posts. I find it somewhat incongruous to accuse Glirdy based on lack of posting/content while having so few posts herself. But, I’m hesitant to accuse her because this could just as easily be newness as anything else. In fact, it's probably more likely due to newness, but I still don't like it. :mad: I’ll wait for futher developments from her before saying more on the issue.

On to Diamond…

[Naria]

Yay!! Great job Ranger! :D

Btw, I am truly sorry about missing the vote. I thought I was going to be able to get to a computer before the deadline, but by the time that person was home it was too late.

Now back to more important issues. I have not found anyone in particular to be overly suspicious of as of yet. I will have to go back and read everything that was said including the stuff I missed. I will be back shortly.

[Roa_Aoife]

Celuien
1st post - Beginning nonsense, sees flaws in Nogrod's plans. Says that revealing dreams will allow orcs to pick off innocents. Thinks we ought to hold back on revelations till there are enough to make it matter. Suggests leaving hints in event of a dream.
2nd - Responds to Nogrod, says a day by day reveal won't help much. Restates that hints would have to be vague.
3rd - Running analysis, lists current non-posters, nonsense accusations arise.
4th - Expresses hate of Day 1
5th - Responds to Spawn, thinks Spawn is innocent
6th - Votes Diamond, says she's too agreeable and chit-chatty. Thinks that Nogrod, Caran, Spawn, Kitanna, and Caran seem particularly unsuspicious. Gives time to non-posters, wants to watch Glirdan, and will come back to look at Roa, Sleepy and Naria. Wants to hear from Zali.
7th - Quotes Sleepy, wonders about regretting vote for Diamond.
8th - Says Sleepy is impersonating Nilp. Responds to Jenny suspicion of Nogrod.
9th - Starts to feel bad about Diamond Vote
10th - Says she's trying to get LIS's attention

If anything, Celuien stays consistent in what she says, and offers a lot of helpful posts. Her sudden and somewhat late defense of Nogrod sends up red flags, mostly because it looks like a team play, or an Orc attempting to ally with an innocent. (I generally distrust anyone who seems too convinced of someone else's innocence.) She truly seems to regret voting for Diamond, which seems particularly un-orcish to me. Over all, I'd say she looks less suspicious and more helpful for now.

[Diamond18]

Post written at Night, to be posted asap Day 2, before reading anyone else’s Day 2 posts.

Hey, analyzing posters like a certain penguin lover by the name Thin is hard work. :p

They have proved to be useful many times...

True -- analyzing can be useful to find patterns in people’s behavior. But it can also be a great tool for Werecreatures. Not only can they make a show of being helpful, they can recast other players’ comments and actions in the light which they want the rest of the village to see things. In that sense I view these things with caution. I think everyone has their own idea of what constitutes as Substantial posting, and I find it more substantial when posts have a bit of theorizing and discussion besides a review of what other players have done.

That said, I am now going to do a player-by-player analysis, because it is Night as I type, and I have nothing better to do. If a Wereorc kills me and I don’t get to post it, I will be very grumpy, and possibly break things.

Nogrod

The first person to post after the opener, therefore the first person I will analyze.

#2 Opens a discussion about the Shaman dreams, suggests that each dreamer comes forward right away with what they know.

#4 Responds to Celiuen’s questioning of the wisdom of his plan. Suggests everyone comment on his and Celuien’s ideas.

#6 Say Roa’s point is good, declares intent to sleep.

#28 Responds to Naria, saying he’s not pushing his idea. Says there is no way the Orcs could benefit from open revelations. Expresses uncertainty about own plan.

#34 Responds to Spawn, disagreeing that we will be able to know about dreams after the dreamer dies. Responds to Jenny. Says now his plan is badly flawed, and continues on to explain why: the Shaman will dream about the most experienced and cleverest of players and if/when their innocence is exposed for certain, we will lose them to the Orcs.

#40 Agrees with Jenny that agreeable posts are suspicious. Adds that clearly flawed reasoning is also suspicious. Finds all who discount the possibility of finding an Orc on Day 1 to be suspicious. Says anyone fighting a good idea is an Orc. Does an analysis of the players.

#43 Restates dislike of the “I Agree Movement.” Does another analysis.

#53 Uh, I don’t get this post.

#56 Questions the deadline.

#58 Asks Findëasëa to bold her vote.

#60 Talks about post 53, responds to Farael.

#62 Gives vote count, wonders about Diamond and Glirdan, wants to hear from Diamond.

#68 Responds to Zali, talks more about the dreams, responds to Kitanna, about the dreams, restates abandonment of early plan and defends his earlier reasons for it.

#72 Responds to Sleepy, is puzzled by Sleepy’s behavior.

#75 Is glad to see Diamond, declares his suspicions dropped for the time being.

#80 Posts current vote count, gives opinion on Sleepy (still puzzled) Glirdan (doesn’t think he looks as bad as some think) and Diamond (feels innocent).

#87 Still thinking about who to vote for, mentions usefulness of Diamond and Glirdan so doesn’t like them having the most votes, inclined to kill Sleepy but only has one vote to give and notes it will take two.

#90 Votes for Sleepy per Sleepy’s request, knowing it will have no bearing on the Day’s outcome.

#94 Responds to Diamond, saying analyzing is useful.

#98 Responds to LiS.

Second to post after the opener was:

Celuien

#3 Questions the wisdom of Nogrod’s plan, calls for caution and secrecy for dreamer’s, suggests the use of hints.

#8 Makes short responses to Nogrod and Roa.

#14 Kicks off the analysis process, reviewing the posts so far and listing those who have not yet posted. Makes joking accusations of Grendelien, Sleepy and Spawn based on similar occupations.

#15 Declares hatred of Day 1 and random voting.

#35 Responds to Spawn, says she has a good point about hinting. Says there isn’t much to talk about right now.

#47 Votes for Diamond, saying she was too agreeable and chatty. Lists Nogrod, Caran, Spawn, Kitanna, and Caran as unsuspicious. Gives the newbies the benefit of the doubt. Says Glirdan bears watching, and is noncommittal about Roa, Sleepy, Naria, wants to hear from Zali.

#69 Finds Sleepy strange, doubts own vote for Diamond.

#74 Responds to Sleepy’s response, says he’s not off the hook. Notes Jenny’s suspicion of Nogrod and says Nogrod seems reasonable and innocent so far.

#79 Says she’s starting to feel bad about vote for Diamond.

#82 Posts observation about LiS not being invisible.

Third to post was:

Roa_Aoife

#5 Makes observations on the dreams.

#11 Responds to Caran, says she has good point about the dreamers having say in what they do with the info. Encourages discussion and strategy despite it being Day 1.

#16 Responds briefly to Jenny’s tongue-in-cheek accusation of too suspicious innocence.

#30 Gets Naria and Nogrod confused, asks for explanation about Nogrod comment in post 28.

#42 Apologizes for confusion, responds to Spawn’s question about post 16.

#48 Says most suspicious of Diamond and Glirdan, votes for Glirdan.

#55 Posts about deadline and timezones.

#71 Calls Sleepy a dork.

#76 Responds to Nogrod, speculates on Diamond’s life expectancy.

#78 Posts current vote count, says Diamond is slated for death.

#81 Lists who has not voted.

#93 Responds to Diamond, saying analysis can be hard. (Diamond, now exhausted, must agree with her, and would like to state that analysis is a bitch.)

Fourth to post was Diamond.

Fifth to post was Glirdan.

I will not be analyzing these people for obvious reasons.

Sixth to post was:

Caranlondien

#10 Agrees with Celuien about dreaming and suggests discretion is in order.

#19 Restates opinion on dreaming and says it seems everyone is in agreement. Responds to Diamond’s tongue-in-cheek accusation with in character comment.

#32 Points out Naria/Nogrod confusion on Roa’s part.

#39 Responds to Celuien, says she doesn’t know what she’ll do if she gets a dream. Compliments Spawn’s analysis. Says everyone seems suspicious at the moment.

#41 Sympathizes with newbies. Finds Diamond most suspicious based on Nogrod and Spawn’s lists. Finds Sleepy suspicious.

#64 Responds to Zali, denies that she agreed dreamers should come straight out, says she said opposite. Is torn between Sleepy and Diamond but finds Diamond having least substance and votes for Diamond.

Seventh to post was:

JennyHallu

#13 Mostly all in character, but talks about having thought about the Shaman dreams and says she agrees with Celuien.

#29 Says she’ll be in and out. Says to quit obsessing over the dreams and agreeing with each other, says to focus on finding and Orc.

#49 Says Nogrod, Diamond, and Sleepy are most suspicious.

#54 Votes for Diamond saying not enough substance. (Diamond finds this whole trend highly annoying and no fun at all, and thinks Jenny is one to talk, but then she’s already spoken her piece about that. :p)

Eighth to post was:

Kitanna

#17 Talks about Shaman dreams, expresses doubt about Nogrod’s plan.

#38 Reviews the Day’s activity so far.

#63 More reviewing. Votes for Sleepy, because of general annoyance over his play.

Ninth to post was:

Findëasëa/

#25 In character, then agrees about keeping dreams secret.

#57 Votes for Glirdan and cites lack of substance and posts.

Tenth to post was:

Grendelien

#26 In character, talks about the dreams, agrees with Caran.

#85 Agrees that Diamond is suspicious but points out that analysis based posts could be a diversion. Votes for Glirdan because s/he is suspicious of those who have voted for Diamond. (I’m not sure I understand this, since Glirdan didn’t vote for me.)

#88 Apologizes for spelling Nogrod’s name wrong.

Eleventh to post was:

Naria

#27 Apologizes for late show, agrees about being quiet about dreams.

#37 Responds to Roa, elaborates on stance.

Twelfth to post was:

Sleepy Ranger

#31 Declares intent to vote randomly.

#45 Says he doesn’t like Day 1 and always votes randomly.

#50 Says he dislikes people who put down random voting, votes for Jenny because of that.

#67 Says Caran should have voted for him instead of Diamond.

#70 Responds to Celuien and says he’s strange and contradictory in general. Says he’s been trying to get lynched.

#77 Says he wants to get lynched or die in the night but will play normally if that doesn’t happen. Supports Diamond. (Should I be worried about this dubious vote of confidence?)

#83 Begs Nogrod to vote for him.

#89 Asks Nogrod again to vote for him.

#92 Is happy Nogrod voted for him, asks Wereorcs to please kill him.

Thirteenth to post was:

dancing spawn of ungoliant

#33 Says that she would rather have reasoned posts than obscure hints about dreams, but says dreamers can decide for themselves what to do.

#36 Reviews the Day so far, expresses suspicion of Diamond, Roa, Findëasëa, and Sleepy.

#46 Votes for Roa.

Fourteenth to post was:

Azaelia of Willowbottom

#52 Apologizes for lateness, talks about dreaming, agrees with the usual.

#61 Posts analysis of Day, categorizes players as: innocent (herself, Spawn) Watch me! (Diamond, Sleepy, Glirdan) hasn’t shown up (LiS) Don’t know (Caranlondien, Nogrod, Grendelien, Findëasëa, Celuien, Glirdan, Naria, Roa_Aoife, Kitanna, Jenny)

#84 Responds to Caran, says her decision is between Sleepy and Glirdan, gives Diamond benefit of the doubt, votes Glirdan.

Last to post was

Legolas in spandex

#97 Post after Day has ended, expresses confusion, apologizes for missing Day 1.

[Celuien]

Diamond:
#7: Mostly in character nonsense. Agrees with yours truly about not rushing to reveal dreams.
#12: Not sure what we should discuss other than Shaman strategy, agrees with Caran and me that dream revealing should be done with discretion. Waiting for more of the village to arrive.
#18: More day 1 in character stuff – this time accusations of Roa and Caran based on related occupations. Says not to hate day 1 since it’s the only chance to post in character nonsense.
#22: Silliness about how to kill an orc. Says she’ll be looking for Shaman dream hints.
#72: Defense. Says it’s absurd to accuse her for being in character on day 1. Votes for Glirdan to save herself.
#85: Thanks Nogrod for confidence in her innocence, says she’ll be upset if she’s lynched for enjoying herself on the first day, thinks being absent made her suspicious.
#90: Suspicious of analysis as substance, though it’s a “staple of the game.” Too frazzled to have suspicions, but says there should be lots to look at for suspicious behavior the next day.

At first, I found the silliness suspicious – I tend to find anyone who makes a lot of noise without really saying anything suspicious. But the tone of 72 and 85 seems genuine. I also tend to suspect those who appear to agree with everyone all the time, even if I'm the one being agreed with (:D), especially in combination with not really adding anything else, as Diamond did pretty much until her defense post. As for voting position, as the 3rd of 5 to vote for an innocent Glirdan, this is a suspicious spot, but I can’t use it against her since Glirdan was the best way to save herself from lynching (more suspicious to most than Sleepy and the next leader in vote count). Overall, she looks far less suspicious to me than she did when I voted for her yesterday.

Crossed with Diamond.

[Naria]

I find it more substantial when posts have a bit of theorizing and discussion besides a review of what other players have done.

Diamond, I find the rest of your post in direct conflict with what you are saying in the above quote. How is this too help any of us? Would we not be able to just go back a re-read everyone's post for ourselves, afterall it is only Day 2 and not all the difficult to go back a couple pages? What are your feelings in this player-by-player analyses? It seems to me like you want to look like you are helping when you really aren't.

[Roa_Aoife]

#71 Calls Sleepy a dork.

*falls over laughing*

[Roa_Aoife]

Caran
1st - Nonsense, thinks Celuien makes a good point about dream reveals. Thinks discretion is the way to go, points out the Orcs are watching too
2nd - States consensus that dream reveals should come at the discretion of the dreamers, Nonsense response to Diamond's nonsense accusation
3rd - Corrects Roa
4th - Thinks Spawn did a good job on analysis, doesn't have any well-founded suspicions yet
5th - Thanks Nogrod for the analysis, Sympathizes with Findeasea and Grendelien on newbieness, makes a good point about Day 1, says that with Nogrod and Spawn's lists combined, Diamond looks the most suspicious, Also thinks Sleepy is suspicious
6th - Corrects Azaelia, torn between Diamond and Sleepy, Votes Diamond

Caran, too, makes good points and stays consistent. She seemed fairly thoughtful in all her posts, and gave some good reasoning for what she did. I can't seem to find anything suspicious in her actions at this point, but I'm keeping an eye on her.

[Celuien]

Zali:
#51: Apologies for not being present. Cites school, illness, dinner. Agrees that dream revelations are at the receiver’s discretion. Cautions against obvious hints as reason to be targeted by orcs, but wants some indication so that dreams can be found should the poster be killed.
#60: Analysis of posters with error about Caran’s position on dream revealing. Thinks Spawn is innocent, wants to watch Diamond, Glirdan and Sleepy, doesn’t know about the rest.
#82: Apologizes for error about Caran’s post. Asks Sleepy about channeling Nilp. Says that Diamond’s most recent post seems innocent and she’ll vote for either Glirdan or Sleepy, finding both equally suspicious (though agreeing with Kitanna that Sleepy may be too bold for an orc). Votes Glirdan, then apologizes for vote if he turns out to be innocent while pointing out that the vote is based on actual suspicion.

What do I think of this? Somewhat suspicious. I don’t like apologies for votes when they’re based on suspicion. That’s the reason to vote for someone…unless you know they’re innocent and you’re covering tracks. Vote also come at prime bandwagon hiding time. Will watch.

Grendelien:
#24: Laments Farael. Will miss his skipping Na over pond water (!!!). Says that dreams are a double-edged sword, apologizes for repeating everyone’s thoughts on the dreams, agrees with Caran’s plan.
#83: Expresses confusion over who to vote for. Says that Diamond’s lack of substance is suspicious, but that Nogrod and I could be wolves trying to cause a diversion by writing detailed posts. Votes Glirdan because of suspicion of the Diamond voters, though thinking that it isn’t a good reason to vote for someone.

Again, not a whole lot to go on. Overall feel is non-suspicious based on fairly good logic, though I would have liked to hear a little more. Actually voting for Glirdan based on suspicion of the Diamond voters is reasonable, since if Grendelien did suspect the Diamond voters, it would have been an indication of her innocence. I’d like to hear more about which of the Diamond voters were found most suspicious.

In the overall overall, the most suspicious Glirdan voter from my perspective is Zali.

And that’s all for now!

[Nogrod]

That was a job! Good God! And I see you have been faster than me... :) But for hard-core weregamers, this should be intresting indeed. I'll reserve my interpretation to a later moment - as I have time to come up with it - but this really opened some new interpretations I hadn't thought of before...

So

The first three accusations made, could be counted in the joke-compartment (but in a WW-game you never know about these either).

First Jenny and Celuien crooss-posted (random) accusations

Jenny #13: Spawn & Roa (too innocent), Sleepy (being a barrell), Diamond (having good time & not seeing the imminent end of the world)
Celuien #14: Using the “Random Illuminator™”, which revealed: Grendelien, Sleepy & Spawn

Third joke-one was:
Diamond #18: Caranlodien & Roa (always hanging together)

Then we came to some more thought of accusations / suspicions – and some of this stuff is quite interesting indeed (getting better towards the end, but there are a few interesting things quite early on too):

Spawn #35: Suspecting Diamond for chatting to avoid “under radar” suspicions. Roa about excusing random voting and taking time to answer Jenny’s joke accusation. Findëasëa, for posting only once – then retreating with first-timer issue. Sleepy, for not being serious although saying he is.

Kitanna#37 Agrees with Spawn’s suspicions – even not agreeing with them all. Mostly suspects Roa and Diamond.

Caran #38 Agrees with Spawn’s suspicions – adds to be suspecting everyone.

Nogrod #39 Makes a list of people, leaving the “most suspicious” to the bottom (without any clear indication of there being an order in the list): Diamond and Sleepy.

Caran #40 Defends Grendelien & Findëasëa, as newbies. Agrees with the suspicions of Diamond (lots of posts with no substance cover guilt) and Sleepy (not posting enough)!

Nogrod #42 Says wouldn’t vote for Celuien, Roa, Spawn, Jenny & Caranlodien. Says Diamond “somewhat suspicious”, ans Sleepy’s gaming style suspicious (although known). Agreeing with Caran about the newbies.

Spawn #45 Just votes boldly for Roa, with no further reason given...

Celuien #46 Votes for Diamond: too agreeable (+ others have stated more reasons). Noting that Nogrod, Caran, Spawn, Kitanna, and Caran seem particularly unsuspicious. Wants to give newbies the benefit of doubt. Wants to watch Glirdan, will think about Roa, Naria & Sleepy.

Roa #47 Votes for Glirdan (just restating others opinions & known to able to do more), suspects Diamond (lack of content).

Jenny #48 Finds suspicious: Nogrod for his own reasoning: Anyone fighting against a good idea is an orc!, Diamond for general hyperness, and Sleepy for promoting random votes

Sleepy #49 Voting Jenny for her accusation for him.

Glirdan #50 Voting Sleepy (“completely random”).

Jenny #53 Voting for Diamond (votes are already spread enough).

Findëasëa #56 Voting Glirdan (little substance + random voting as a cover?).

Zali #60 Puts Glirdan, Sleepy (random votes) and Diamond (no substance) on the “watch list”. “leaning towards innocent: Spawn (looks innocent and logical)

Nogrod #61 Says, he is uneasy about Diamond & Glirdan being first in the lynch-line, although he has his suspicions on both of them (not playing like they normally do).

Kitanna #62 Votes Sleepy (for being, not suspicious, but “childish”), agrees with Spawn lightly about suspicions for Roa.

Caran #63 Votes Diamond over Sleepy (“by gut”).

Nogrod #71 Expresses frustration on Sleepy – kind of believing him innocent.

Diamond #72 Votes for Glirdan (to save her butt).

Celuien #73 Thinks Nogrod innocent (genuine motivation + well-reasoned and informative).

Nogrod #74 Welcomes Diamond’s post and drops suspicion on her.

Sleepy #76 “Diamond’s alright” (right mind-set).

Celuien #78 Feeling bad for voting Diamond.

Nogrod #79 Sleepy wants to die, but that sounds bad, Glirdan has not been so bad, Diamond feels innocent

Zali #82 Chooses between Sleepy & Glirdan, votes Glirdan. Gives Diamond the benefit of doubt.

Grendelien #83 Votes for Glirdan and suspect those who have voted Diamond (whom she also admits being suspicious), Wonders, whether analysis by Celuien and Nogrod could be a diversions.

Nogrod #85 X-posts with a lot of stuff: reinstates that Glirdy would be useful as an innocent, Diamond possibly more so. Would be ready to give Sleepy the death he desires (as the least bad from the three options at hand).

Nogrod #88 Votes for Sleepy, as Glirdan is practically dead already, and Sleepy insisted...


EDIT: X-posted with millions...

[Diamond18]

How is this too help any of us? Would we not be able to just go back a re-read everyone's post for ourselves, afterall it is only Day 2 and not all the difficult to go back a couple pages? What are your feelings in this player-by-player analyses? It seems to me like you want to look like you are helping when you really aren't.

Naria, I'll be getting to that. That was all I had time for last night. I haven't done post-by-post analysis before so I was trying it out to see what I could find. I was going to do it anyway for my own benefit and since I did it, I posted it. You don't have to read it if you don't think you need to. :) It doesn't make me innocent, and that's my point about analysis. It's all well and good to do it, but it doesn't mean the person who wrote the analysis is innocent. That's not the same as me saying it should not be done.

Anyway, I just got home from work and finished dinner so I'll be reading today's posts and elaborating on what my review of yesterday told me.

[Roa_Aoife]

Jenny
1st - Nonsense, Agrees with Celuien about shaman dreams, doesn't want to give the orcs too much, nonsense accusations
2nd - Tells people to stop obsessing over the dreams, points out that a general consensus has been reached, says just showing up to say "I agree" is fairly useless after a point. Points out that revealing dreams will start narrowing the list for the orcs of who the Shaman is. Wants to focus on catching an orc.
3rd - Is suspicious of Nogrod, Diamond, and Sleepy
4th - says vote is spread out enough, Votes Diamond for not enough substance


One of the slightly less active people Day 1. She starts out having fun, but then gets serious. Her second post had some good points in it, and she did stay consistent throughout. Beyond that, there's not a lot to go on. Out of the three, she's the most suspicious, but that's not saying a lot. I'm also keeping an eye on her.

[JennyHallu]

Diamond, there is a big difference between volume and substance.

[Nogrod]

Well, I have never seen this kind of mass-analysis before! It kind of exhausts even a dedicated WW-fan! There is much that is overlapping, but then again, cross-checking each others analysis is safe - so that the wolves can't twist them to their ways.

But I'm wondering, why no one analyzed Spawn, as s/he (good grief: s/he probably lives under 10 miles from me, and I don't even know, whether she is a he, or he a she...) is one highest in my suspicion list after doing my analysis...

Spawn's attack on Roa was just a case out of the blue (the reasons were pretty bad, if you look at them closer), the arguments against my plan just plain suspicious, and then the vote without anything more ado - from someone who wanted reasoned cases, not hunches!

For the case of shaman dreams, just look at this (not to ask for any merit for my bad idea, but to see the reaction to it)
It is easier to hide a dream into a good case since there will be so many of them around anyway (I hope) that the orcs can't tell which one of the arguments is based on a dream. And if the orcs should kill the one who had the dream, we shall see easily, whom that person dreamed of.

Now this is just pure maddness! No reason at all! But very good tactics for the orcs, if people believed this... It's nice, if the orcs don't know, which defence came from a dream, but then neither will we have an idea about the dreams, and us villagers will waste them with all the probability. This shaman system puts us in disadvantage already: why should we give the orcs still more to play on? And how could we "see easily" whom someone dreamed of, as we don't have the faintest about who living or dead dreamt in the first place? All this orc-propaganda?

Afterwards Spawn backed down on this - as I protested, but still tried to have it on somehow, saying, that the shaman would know, whom s/he deamt of. Surely would, but why on earth would an orc lie about the person dreamt of (and get caught by that) - they should only lie about the status of the dreamt person!!! and that's in no way known by the shaman. Spawn's arguments are bad, but still he tries to wrench us behaving in confused manner?

I'm not against good cases. That's what we will need. But swindling is serious...

I don't claim to have a "case" against Spawn, but would really like to hear Spawn's answers to these questions... (eg. artificial suspicions on Roa + vote with nothing more + asking villagers to play against our own best)

[Diamond18]

Okay, as to interpretations:

As I hinted at in my analysis, I find Jenny's posts suspicious, in that her first two seem to contradict each other:

#13 Mostly all in character, but talks about having thought about the Shaman dreams and says she agrees with Celuien.

#29 Says she’ll be in and out. Says to quit obsessing over the dreams and agreeing with each other, says to focus on finding and Orc.

In her first posts she talks about the dreams and agrees with someone, in her second post chastises everyone else for doing that same thing as she has done.

In her very next posts she levels accusations, which seems to me hasty for a third post. Very quick to form suspicions and make judgments, and is slightly hypocritical. I am not sure how suspicious to find her though, since part of my suspicion stems from annoyance with the way she is quick to condemn people for not playing the game the way she thinks they should. This isn't necessarily wolfish, it could just be Jennyish. I'll withold making a desicion until I can track more.

Nogrod posts the most of any player, and this is usual for him. He's the first to make suggestions and form theories about how to use the Shaman role. I think I tend to assume Nogrod is innocent from the get go, because I like the kinds of posts he makes, which could be an unhealthy mindset. He's kind of like the reverse of the coin of Jenny for me. I'm automatically suspicious of her and automatically trusting of him. So should I trust my gut on these two or realize when I'm not objective enough? I hate to go against my gut, but I hate to be irrational, too. Nogrod and Jenny are probably two people I'll be leaving alone until I can get past my automatic mindsets.

Next to Nogrod Roa posts the most. I don't really see anything terribly suspicious in her posts, or incongruent with the way I've seen her post as an innocent. But there's nothing saying "definitely innocent" either. I'm pretty neutral so far. Plus I think I hesitate to want to kill off people who are active and invested in the game. So I doubt I'll be voting for her unless something really interesting happens.

Celuien voted for me, and then seemed to regret it after I showed up. Feels genuine, but then since I know that I am innocent, I can't help but wonder if she was getting ready a Day 2 defense for herself should I die. Still, gut feeling is that her reasons/opinions were genuine from an innocent point of view.

Caran I find suspicious. She voted for me because other people were suspicious of me, which seems a lot like bandwaggoning to avoid having own opinion. She also thought Sleepy was more substantial than me, and in my view Sleepy was just weird and off the wall, stirring the pot and hardly substantial by anyone's measure of substance. I'd like to know what exactly tipped the scales in that matter.

Speaking of Sleepy. Is he crazy? Or crazy like a fox? A dork, or an orc? Is begging to be killed a good way to stay alive? Strange, strange little apple barrel. I've got mine eye on you....

Findëasëa was very contradictory, voting for Glirdan based on lack of substance and posting, after having only made one short post herself. I'm not going to condem this automatically since she's new (to the board as well as the game) but I think there's a danger in being too patient for too long. I can easily see her fellow Orcs and her deciding to play the "newbie" role. In other words, she could be more savvie than she appears. (I don't mean this as an insult, Fin, if you are an innocent, I just don't know anything about you to know whether you are a quiet type usually.)

Grend posted a little more, voiced some opinion on the matter of my impending doom, I'm waiting for some more before I can really make a desicion. Comments about Find and newbieness also apply here, though she was a little more outspoken.

As long as I'm doing newbies, there's LiS. I'm a little baffled by you, LiS -- did you read the rules for Werewolf before playing? Hopefully you'll get the hang of it soon.

Kitanna was very quiet, so I'm a little suspicious of her. But as she didn't post much, there's not much to go on. Her vote for Sleepy wasn't really suspicious seeing as how off the wall Sleepy was acting.

Naria only posted twice, very short posts, and didn't vote, due to the RL concerns. But I'm still a little baffled by her accusing me today of not being helpful, as she's really in no position to judge at the moment.

Spawn only made a few posts but they weren't suspicious to me. Or, I should say, not overly suspicious, since I'm always suspicious of people who just seem innocent.

Zali is actually pretty much the same as Spawn, her number of posts were similar and the content was actually similar in a way (analysis and suspicions of players followed by voting). This is actually the most suspicious thing about Spawn and Zali -- that they behaved somewhat similarly and Zali name only Spawn as likely innocent (besides her own self).

I'm not going to base my vote toDay solely on yesterDay's activity though, so I now await the continuation of toDay's activity.

[Diamond18]

But I'm wondering, why no one analyzed Spawn

I analyzed her, Nogrod. And she is a she.

I didn't actually find her as suspicious as you do, but I'll have to go find her actual posts again because I didn't write much down about them.

[Celuien]

The promised view of Naria:

Day 1:
#25: In character stuff, laments Farael, vows to aid the village against the orcs. Agrees about discretion for dreams. Doesn’t have any suspicions at the moment.
#35: Says orcs will pick off identified innocents one by one if revealed. Agrees that the topic should be dropped temporarily in favor of looking for orcs. Points out that Roa’s second quote attributed to her wasn’t hers. Notes her computer will be gone soon.

Does not return for vote.

Not much to go on (again) from day 1. Winds up just agreeing with everyone else. Can’t go one way or the other on suspicion of her.

Day 2:
#110: Celebrates Ranger’s good job. Apologizes for missing vote due to computer issues. (Believable and consistent with #35.) Still doesn’t suspect anyone.
#114: Finds Diamond’s posts conflicting with themselves regarding the helpfulness of analysis. Thinks Diamond may be trying to look helpful while not really helping.

And that’s it so far. Pending further developments, I don’t know what to think of her. But this situation seems fairly usual. There’s nothing overtly suspicious about her. I’ll add her to my watch list just because I don’t have much to go on yet. And I want something to go on.

See you in a few hours.

[Roa_Aoife]

But I'm wondering, why no one analyzed Spawn

I'm hesitant to voice my suspicion of Spawn, since I'm not sure if I'm being objective. (She did vote for me after all.) But Spawn's case has left me basically confused. Especially her making a big deal out of my nonsense response to Jenny's nonsense accusation, when others had done the same thing. I'm afraid I don't understand what the problem is.

[Nogrod]

I analyzed her, Nogrod. And she is a she.

I didn't actually find her as suspicious as you do, but I'll have to go find her actual posts again because I didn't write much down about them.

Thank's Diamond! Someone from the other side of the globe telling which sex someone living "next door" to you is... Could be called the "information society" - or do you Americans still use the term "Information Super Highway"? :cool:

I guess most of my suspicions on Spawn relate to the fact, that I see her playing selfcontradictory and with orc-helping ideas & still being not suspected by anyone... That is good gaming, and therefore very worrysome...

I hope, I will have better cases as the night crawls on.

Good Night (RL)!

[Legolas in spandex]

I guess she is a bit peculiar. I posted. Dunno if I'm too late.

[Nogrod]

I guess she is a bit peculiar. I posted. Dunno if I'm too late.

No you are not! Welcome!

You have approximately 20 hours to play! Go for it Legolas (I retreat to RL sleep, but will be back too, before the day ends)

[Diamond18]

Thank's Diamond! Someone from the other side of the globe telling which sex someone living "next door" to you is... Could be called the "information society" - or do you Americans still use the term "Information Super Highway"? :cool:

Some might, I think it's a hackneyed phrase. ;) Check the photo page, she's on there and she doesn't look like a boy. ;)

I guess most of my suspicions on Spawn relate to the fact, that I see her playing selfcontradictory and with orc-helping ideas & still being not suspected by anyone... That is good gaming, and therefore very worrysome...

I can see what you mean about the comment on us easily being able to tell from the dreamers' posts who they dreamt of. I guess I mostly assumed that she was thinking that when a dreamer died their role as a dreamer would be revealed, like with the Seer. But I don't think that will be the case, will it? We won't know once a person dies if they ever dreamed or not. Or will we? I'm whipping myself into a froth of confusion, now.

[Caranlondien]

Caran I find suspicious. She voted for me because other people were suspicious of me, which seems a lot like bandwaggoning to avoid having own opinion. She also thought Sleepy was more substantial than me, and in my view Sleepy was just weird and off the wall, stirring the pot and hardly substantial by anyone's measure of substance. I'd like to know what exactly tipped the scales in that matter.

Diamond, I voted for you before you gave your response defending yourself; and, after reading that response, I do tend to believe you innocent. Also, I didn't base my vote on thinking that Sleepy had posted more substantially than you; I voted for you over him because where he was quiet, you were loud without saying very much at all. I find unhelpful loudness more suspicious than quietness.

Now, I've only just gotten here, so I have to go back and re-read (since I can't trust any of your analyses :p ) but here are my initial thoughts: As I've already said, Diamond is no longer the forerunner for my suspicion. Nogrod makes some interesting points about Spawn, whom I had previously been inclined to trust. So I think I'll analyze her first. I'm heartened that we're one up on the wolves in the village-kill to orc-kill ratio. Now come on, people, let's kill an orc! :D

EDIT: left out a word

[Diamond18]

Diamond, I voted for you before you gave your response defending yourself; and, after reading that response, I do tend to believe you innocent. Also, I didn't base my vote on thinking that Sleepy had posted more substantially than you; I voted for you over him because where he was quiet, you were loud without saying very much at all. I find unhelpful loudness more suspicious than quietness.

Okay. I see (from looking over my analysis, the only one I trust :p) that when you voted (#64) Sleepy had less posts than me. At the end of the Day, Sleepy had posted 9 times to my 8, and I so haven't been considering him quiet.

I now feel the need to make a few comments about, as Caran has just put it, "unhelpful loudness" or as others have put it, lots of unsubstantial "nonsense."

I should warn everyone that no, I will not be helpful. I cannot be helpful. Why? I don't know anything. I'm an Ordinary and have not received a dream from the Shaman, so I don't know anything. If I was a Seer or a Ranger or a Hunter or whatever, then maybe I'd been in a position to help the village, but as it stands, I know nothing. I really have no purpose in this game but to stay alive and try to figure out who is who. Since it's Day 2 and the village has been active, I've had a chance to form opinions and suspicions, but am otherwise in the same dark corner as any other ordo who has not gotten a dream. So unless I get a dream in the future, I won't be helpful. Don't expect me to be helpful. Do expect me to post more than just in character comments (as is really only befitting early Day 1 posts) but that's about it. (On the same subject, don't expect me to apologize or regret having been in character earlier.)

I suppose despite being an ordo I could still come up with some genius theory to help figure out who the Orcs are, but I kind of doubt it. Not my area of strength. I seem to be good at being really suspicious and becoming the focus of bandwagons, which on the upside should keep me alive during the Night.

[Caranlondien]

Dancing Spawn:

#31: laments Farael; suggests that dreamers leave hints through well-reasoned arguments, so that once a dreamer dies, we can easily tell whom they dreamed of.

My thoughts: I think that the merit of Spawn’s suggestion here depends on the answer to this question: When a dreamer dies, do we find out that they were a dreamer?
In the post after Spawn’s, Nogrod answers that question: No. Since Farael hasn’t contradicted this, I’m assuming that it’s true; When a dreamer dies, we don’t find out that they were a dreamer.

#34: acknowleges Nogrod’s reply; decides to comment on other villagers’ behaviors; points out Diamond for making many in-character posts with little substance; says Roa makes her uneasy because of her “subtle way of excusing random voting”, wonders why Roa took the time to answer Jenny’s in-character accusation; thinks Findeasea’s behavior odd, but excuses her for now as a newbie; thinks Sleepy Ranger isn’t taking the game very seriously.

My thoughts: Her attack on Roa is, as Nogrod has said, somewhat odd. I’m not sure what I think about Roa (that’s a whole other analysis), but as for Spawn, her reasoning isn’t up to par. Jenny made a tongue-in-cheek accusation, and Roa made a tongue-in-cheek response.

#44: votes for Roa

My thoughts: I don't find her dream suggestion that odd, as it could have resulted from the ambiguity concerning dead dreamers. Her attack on Roa does seem odd. But it was Day 1, and lots of people were acting strange. I'll reserve judgment on Spawn until seeing her behavior today.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

*hurries in*

So. I only have a little while, since it's getting quite late here...but I just got in and thought that at least showing my face would be a good idea.

I should start by congratulating the Ranger on a job well done. And now, to business.

What do I think of this? Somewhat suspicious. I don’t like apologies for votes when they’re based on suspicion. That’s the reason to vote for someone…unless you know they’re innocent and you’re covering tracks. Vote also come at prime bandwagon hiding time. Will watch.

I was covering no tracks. I had no way of knowing that Glirdan was innocent. His behavior was suspicious, and enough other people thought so, too. And I had no intention of bandwagoning. That's just the way it turned out, unfortunately for us. Bad voting decisions strike again.

I realize that a lot of what I did yesterday looked suspicious. Placing a late vote that sealed an innocent's fate. Putting only one other name on the innocent list, someone whose behavior and my own were fairly similar. (which was quite astute a comparison, Diamond. I think Spawn is innocent, but I hadn't really thought there had been such similarities before.)

Now, if I was an orc, I wouldn't put a fellow Orc's name on the innocent list with only my own alongside. It's not good for the group mentality: what if something happened and I was lynched...then someone might connect us, and we'd be out two. But I am no orc. Which means (hopefully) that Spawn isn't one, either.

I'm sorry. I was going to do a larger analysis, but it's almost midnight here, and I am just not thinking straight (I'm not much of a night person). I will be back for more in the (RL) morning.

Apologies for the fact that this post is pretty much a defence of myself. I'm sure that fact will only serve to make me look more suspicious. :rolleyes:

[Caranlondien]

Actually, I'm not seeing Azaelia as all that suspicious. She, like Diamond, seems to be responding earnestly to accusations. Just a first reaction, though; analysis tomorrow.

Like Azaelia, my RL time is approaching midnight, and I'll be heading off. Like I said, I plan to do more analysis tomorrow, though. In the meantime, good luck, my fellow villagers, in your orc-finding endeavors!

[JennyHallu]

As I hinted at in my analysis, I find Jenny's posts suspicious, in that her first two seem to contradict each other:
Quote:
#13 Mostly all in character, but talks about having thought about the Shaman dreams and says she agrees with Celuien.

#29 Says she’ll be in and out. Says to quit obsessing over the dreams and agreeing with each other, says to focus on finding and Orc.

In her first posts she talks about the dreams and agrees with someone, in her second post chastises everyone else for doing that same thing as she has done.

In her very next posts she levels accusations, which seems to me hasty for a third post. Very quick to form suspicions and make judgments, and is slightly hypocritical. I am not sure how suspicious to find her though, since part of my suspicion stems from annoyance with the way she is quick to condemn people for not playing the game the way she thinks they should. This isn't necessarily wolfish, it could just be Jennyish. I'll withold making a desicion until I can track more.
I think this deserves an answer, and I'm going to see if I can explain this perceived contradiction, although it almost feels like you're twisting what I've actually said to fit a predetermined idea of me. Post 13 was made, as you can see, 2 hours into the day. It was my first post, and I did mention the dreams. A mention of this new wrinkle in seerism isn't what I protested in post 27. (I assume you meant 27, not 29.) Post 27 was made the next day for me, RL, after I'd slept, and it felt odd to me that in all that time I slept, no one had gotten past the whole dream thing, despite the fact that Nogrod aside, no one had really brought up a new or even different opinion. As for it being only my second post, I have said many times, both here and in discussion, that this is a pressing time of year for people in my line of work. Much prophetizing must be done around Easter, and I'm busy. When I voted for you for lack of substance, Diamond, I did not mean that you'd posted less, I meant that you'd posted less of substance. While you have remedied that today, I still find you pretty suspicious. How else can I vote than by noticing people acting in ways I would not?

I'm off to bed, I think. It's midnight and I have to prove the world is ending in the morning (i.e. do my taxes)

[Diamond18]

I've been meaning to ask a question, but keep forgetting: Nogrod, what's with the Roman Numerals beside people's names in the vote counts you give? To what do they pertain? I can't figure it out.

[Roa_Aoife]

I've been meaning to ask a question, but keep forgetting: Nogrod, what's with the Roman Numerals beside people's names in the vote counts you give? To what do they pertain? I can't figure it out.

I believe that's the order the votes came in. As in

Suspect 3 - (Voter I {First vote of the day} Voter IV {Fourth vote of the Day} Voter VII {Seventh vote of the Day}

And with that, I have to check out for the night (It's past 1am here.) Hope to see more out there when I get back.

[Grendelien]

First off, I'd like to congratulate the Ranger on a job well done! This is very good news for our village!
[Just as a prewarning, a piece of something or other is stuck under my spacebar, so I apologize in advance if some joined words happen to pass by my superb (ahem) editing skills]

Secondly, I must censure myself for my poor voting grounds. I was intially suspicious of Celuien, and I did question Caranlondien's innocence, but these are terrible reasons to vote for a different (and innocent) person. I should have voted based on my own suspicion of the person, not because I thought those who voted for another were suspicious.

Though I was suspicious (I need to find a synonym for this word) early on, at this point, I can find little evidence, other than my normal paranoia, that Caranlondien is a wereorc. Her posts seem reasonable (gah, more paranoia rising to the surface) and unhasty. If we later discover that Spawn is innocent, this may be some ilk of indication that she is a wereorc...but at this point, everyone is making claims, so I cannot find evidence to prove her guilty.

I am still not convinced that Diamond is innocent, for she seems quick to attack.

My worries about Celuien and Nogrod arose because, despite how Diamond phrased it,...

Nogrod posts the most of any player, and this is usual for him. He's the first to make suggestions and form theories about how to use the Shaman role.


...I was afraid this normal behavior may be a cover-up. My nature automatically wants to believe the words of leader-like people, so I was rebelling against my instinct, in a sense, by trying to make myself realize that wolves, too, can act normally as a cover-up. This is no reason to believe right off that Nogrod or Celuien are definitely wolves, or are definitely innocent. I just mean to point out that people who post a lot and act normally (or suspiciously), and people who post very little and act suspiciously (or normally) have equal likelihoods of being wolves.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

As it is weekend, I don't have much time to be online, and I'd rather use that time analysing other villagers than defending myself, but since so many of you is now finding me slightly suspicious, I think it's fair to say something about my behaviour yesterday.

Well, Nogrod, I saw that you might be making grounds for a case against me in your post #118 when you started twisting my words.

Spawn #35: Suspecting Diamond for chatting to avoid “under radar” suspicions. Roa about excusing random voting and taking time to answer Jenny’s joke accusation. Findëasëa, for posting only once – then retreating with first-timer issue. Sleepy, for not being serious although saying he is.In my post #34, I said that we have to start the analyses from something, so I listed things that "had caught my attention". I did not suspect Findëasëa for posting only once. I pointed out that she hadn't posted her own personal views at all. Also, I didn't suspect Sleepy for "not being serious although saying he is". Sleepy did not say that he is serious, he said that Wereorc hunting is serious business. I mentioned that he didn't seem to be taking it very seriously.

Spawn #45 Just votes boldly for Roa, with no further reason given...Heh, those three dots just give away your attitude towards me. Trying to start a Spawn bandwagon, eh? I said that I needed to vote immediately, so I didn't have time to analyse anything new. Since Roa seemed the most suspicious to me, I voted for her.

I don't claim to have a "case" against Spawn, but would really like to hear Spawn's answers to these questions... (eg. artificial suspicions on Roa + vote with nothing more + asking villagers to play against our own best)If that's not a case, I don't know what is. I'm sorry if this looks like a knee jerk reaction, but I can't help wondering if you are an orc trying to make flawed accusatons against me hoping that other villagers will buy them, and once I'm found innocent, you can excuse yourself and say that you didn't actually even make a case against me.

I stand behind what I've said earlier. It was my mistake to believe that we would find out if someone had got a dream or not, but that's all. If it looks like "orc-propaganda", then you probably have to vote for me, but I will not defend myself anymore toDay (unless other villagers demand me to answer something).

Hmph, great. I have to go now, but I'll be back later with thoughts about other villagers.

[Nogrod]

It was my mistake to believe that we would find out if someone had got a dream or not, but that's all.


I am quite ready and willing to tone down my suspicion on this part, as I have seen some other villagers thinking the same way. So that might be a misunderstanding, and thence understandable.

But that Roa-case I still wonder, as I can see nothing suspicious in her posts you got yourself attacking against. It honestly looked like trying to make mountain out of a molehill anyways. Maybe that is "the first day" etc., but I'm not sure, whether we should excuse everything by just saying, it's the first day -stuff.

But as one of Spawn's suspicions concerned the random-voting case, I would like to just make a distinction here. For I think there are basically two kinds of "random-voting".

Firstly, you may find yourself in a situation, where you have to vote, and you have nothing to go on with: no theories, no arguments, no reasoned suspicions etc. Then you may vote by hunch: just thinking who feels the worst, or whom your intuition tells you gives out the foulest impression. That's something you may be forced to do, and I myself accept it as a last resort.

Secondly, you may come up with a kind of "technically random" vote. Like using a random generator, or telling you are voting for the seventh people on the list of villagers (or two names under your own) etc. That I think as nasty way of playing. As it is easter-time, I could say, that that is like washing your hands from your vote of guilt... That way you are not answerable of your vote. And that's something suiting the wolves (orcs) just fine - and remember, that person may fool us by stating her/his randomness. That's even more wolvish.

When you give reasons for your votes, or suspicions, they can be publicly tested and valued, but all random-stuff stays outside the discussion forum - and therefore is highly suspicios.

EDIT: PS. My suspicions of Spawn are a prime example of what I meant with this public assessment: as I stated the reasons why I suspected her, she and others could have their say with shared arguments. And because of these comments, I have already declared coming down with part of my suspicions - as we have found a source for that misunderstanding together. This is the way, I think, we should play. Only three orcs around: we others are at the same side!

[Celuien]

I guess she is a bit peculiar. I posted. Dunno if I'm too late.
Definitely not too late! About 11 hours remain now...

Good to see you here!

On to other matters...


Azaelia:

Now, if I was an orc, I wouldn't put a fellow Orc's name on the innocent list with only my own alongside. It's not good for the group mentality: what if something happened and I was lynched...then someone might connect us, and we'd be out two. But I am no orc. Which means (hopefully) that Spawn isn't one, either.

True. It would make more sense for an orc to make an "innocent" pair with an innocent, though (knowing this) I wouldn't put it past a bold orc to point out a second member of the pack on an innocent list. Bluff and double bluff.

Actually, your being innocent doesn't mean that Spawn is or isn't. I've been throughly fooled by many a clever *coughSaucepanEomercough* wolf recently. :rolleyes:

Your defense feels genuine, and I can believe bad luck in a guilty appearing voting position. I eagerly await the larger analysis.

*~*~*~*

I'm not sure I understand the suspicion of Spawn based on her vote for Roa yesterday. There were some odd things about Roa, though I tend not to see them as particularly serious, and Spawn did explain being short of time for further explanations at the time of her vote. I don't really suspect Spawn, though my respect for her usually excellent instincts as an innocent could be coming into play. I'll watch and review, and try to be objective.

I'm leaning more towards trusting Grendelien. Quite an interesting post...

I was going to analyse Sleepy, but I'm waiting for toDAY's posts since all I'll find from yesterday is my annoyance at late Nilpishness.

[Sleepy Ranger]

As promised I shall behave today. First things first, good guess Mr. Ranger. Keep up the good work.

Alas! I seem to have landed in a spot of real-life trouble so I'll be out most of the day but no worries since I'll spend at least an hour or two with you folk till the deadline. :)

Regards,
'King of Quotes' Sleepy Ranger

[Diamond18]

Secondly, I must censure myself for my poor voting grounds. I was intially suspicious of Celuien, and I did question Caranlondien's innocence, but these are terrible reasons to vote for a different (and innocent) person. I should have voted based on my own suspicion of the person, not because I thought those who voted for another were suspicious.

Actually, if I may... what's the matter with being suspicious of other people's voting? Voting more than anything reveals people's true agendas.

Who a player does or does not vote for and their reasons for it can be very telling.

I am still not convinced that Diamond is innocent, for she seems quick to attack.

Exactly what do you mean by this? I attacked no one at all (seriously) the first day. My vote for Glirdan was purely a defensive act (better he die than me). How was I quick to attack? I've mostly been responding to accusations so far.

Now, in asking you why you said this I'm not saying it means you're an Orc. I realize I am generally suspicious, since various people have called me suspicious for: posting nonsense, posting analysis, being too defenseive, and being too offensive. Everyone who has accused me can't be an Orc. But I would like some more explanation from you as to this claim.

[Roa_Aoife]

Secondly, I must censure myself for my poor voting grounds. I was intially suspicious of Celuien, and I did question Caranlondien's innocence, but these are terrible reasons to vote for a different (and innocent) person.

Hey, sorry, I've had a rather busy past few days, so my brain is easily confused. I don't think I understand what this sentence means. You were suspicious of Celuien and Caran, so you voted for Glirdan? I don't get it....

I realize I am generally suspicious, since various people have called me suspicious for: posting nonsense, posting analysis, being too defenseive, and being too offensive. Everyone who has accused me can't be an Orc.

I'm actually with you on this one Diamond. After going back and looking, it seems everyone is trying to find fault with you somehow.

Naria, when I do an analysis, I generally post the summary seperate from my thoughts on it, simply to provide an easy access summary for everyone with out immediately biasing everyone. (I didn't before because it was just going to be a long string of analysis. and I didn't want to get everything muddled up.) I think it's perfectly reasonable that she saved the analysis for later.

Though, speaking about later analysis, Nogrod, what are your thoughts on that whole suspicion thing you posted?

[Legolas in spandex]

If it wasn't obvious, my vote was in my last post. I think the name was Diamond .

[Roa_Aoife]

Legolas,
Why are you voting for Diamond? Can you have posts thatare more than a sentence? We need reasoned argumentments, not random statements. Try to be useful to the village.

[Nogrod]

Just popping in shortly. Will be back nearer the end of the day: bad day for gaming...

But I'm afraid we are quite in the dark still about any good suspects. The more confusion, the better it is for the orcs.

As I don't see any real "orcish" things around, I will have to look at something different. What came to my mind, was seeing if there was anything that was in some way odd, or ununderstandable. I guess we have at least two such incidents.

Spawn's attack on Roa I have already talked. Maybe I just add the following: the orcs know, who the innocents are. Now a player like Roa would be very good asset to our village, were she innocent. So the orcs might want to get her out of the way by lynching also. But on the other hand, it would be quite daring tactics from the orc to go so bluntly against someone with zero-grounds (well, almost zero), as it will arouse suspicion. Added to this: she went to great lengths suspecting Roa for mildly favouring random voting, but hardly mentioned Sleepy's bold announcement to vote randomly? So: Spawn's posting confuses me.

Another case is Celuien's declaration of my innocence. I myself know, that it is true, but still I wonder why she did it. If I have gathered it right, she seems to be an experienced and thoughtful player, so she surely isn't the shaman announcing her dream of me: she would not have acted so clumsily (the only suspicion on me, ungrounded as one could be, was Jenny's joke - at least I took it as a joke, as we have a history of mutual distrust in games before this one). But could she be a shaman impersonator? What would she gain with that? Or siding with an innocent so as to make that innocent (me) trust her? Or just announcing her trust on my innocence (why?)? Celuien's post confuses me.

I hope there will be more discussion while I'm gone. I'll just throw another idea to be considered. As we are reaching the end of day2 with no good suspicions (those above are not "well grounded suspicions", just something I can't quite make out myself) to vote along with, then we should think about other tactics. Spreading the vote again would be frustrating, but a possible way to go.

But in that case, should we start picking on those, who really post minimally or not at all? I'm afraid of losing useful and well playing villagers in a situation, where we don't really have a good cause over anyone... There would the advantage in this plan, that were there orcs using the "under radar"-tactics, they could be forced out into the open by this kind of a threat?

And anyway: non-posters will be all the more dangerous and annoying, the longer we play...

EDIT: X-posted with a couple of last messages...

[Nogrod]

Though, speaking about later analysis, Nogrod, what are your thoughts on that whole suspicion thing you posted?

Sorry. To which "whole suspicion thing" do you refer here? I didn't quite get it... :)

[Celuien]

Another case is Celuien's declaration of my innocence. I myself know, that it is true, but still I wonder why she did it. If I have gathered it right, she seems to be an experienced and thoughtful player, so she surely isn't the shaman announcing her dream of me: she would not have acted so clumsily (the only suspicion on me, ungrounded as one could be, was Jenny's joke - at least I took it as a joke, as we have a history of mutual distrust in games before this one). But could she be a shaman impersonator? What would she gain with that? Or siding with an innocent so as to make that innocent (me) trust her? Or just announcing her trust on my innocence (why?)? Celuien's post confuses me.

Well, if you want to know, I said it because I believed it. :p And actually, I did so against my own better judgment since I almost always get called a werecreature for defending someone. Usually by the person I'm defending. :rolleyes:

I didn't read Jenny's accusation as a joke, but I was unaware of the history between you.

You're right, I would have nothing to gain by impersonating the Shaman. I didn't, and I'm not. Read that as you will. But if I'm vaguely Shaman like, better me as a nighttime target than someone else. ;)


But in that case, should we start picking on those, who really post minimally or not at all? I'm afraid of losing useful and well playing villagers in a situation, where we don't really have a good cause over anyone... There would the advantage in this plan, that were there orcs using the "under radar"-tactics, they could be forced out into the open by this kind of a threat?

And anyway: non-posters will be all the more dangerous and annoying, the longer we play...
I agree, and have been known to act on similar plans, although I'm hesitant to do so since summarily lynching under the radar types tends to yield more dead innocents than wolves/orcs in my experience.

[Roa_Aoife]

To which "whole suspicion thing" do you refer here?

Right, I need yo be more specific. This whole suspicion thing. (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=460919&postcount=118)

[Caranlondien]

I can find little evidence, other than my normal paranoia, that Caranlondien is a wereorc. Her posts seem reasonable (gah, more paranoia rising to the surface) and unhasty. If we later discover that Spawn is innocent, this may be some ilk of indication that she is a wereorc...but at this point, everyone is making claims, so I cannot find evidence to prove her guilty.
Why would finding Spawn to be innocent point to me being a wereorc? After analyzing her, I decided she didn't seem quite so suspicious as Nogrod was making her out to be, and I wanted to hear from her.

Nogrod makes good points, but he also makes me uneasy. Are you suggesting that without well-founded suspicions to go on, we should lynch the quiet people? I can see some of the appeal. It's true, what you said, that quiet people get more and more dangerous as the game goes on. But that's also the sort of plan a bunch of loud orcs would want.

Now, I think I'll analyze Roa and Nogrod, both of whom have seemed helpful so far, and thus whom I am afraid I might overlook.

[Farael]

Legolas, in order to vote, you have to put the name in a seperate line, bold it, and precede it by two pluses.

Example: (NOTE THIS IS NOT MY VOTE)

++Diamond

Why are you voting for Diamond? Can you have posts thatare more than a sentence? We need reasoned argumentments, not random statements. Try to be useful to the village.
Roa, please edit out your comment to avoid confusion.

Legolas, I apologise. Most of the people here have either played on another Werewolf game or watched another one developing. I, being both busy and lazy, decided not to post the complete set of rules but perhaps I should have. In order to vote, you should do it, as Roa said, in a separate line, bold the name and precede it by two pluses, such as this

++SaucepanMan

Roa, I'm still thinking whether or not letting you use some other player's name is "fairplay" as it might be hinting at something. I'll let it go this time, but PLEASE, EVERYONE..... I APPRECIATE YOUR HELP, BUT LET ME DO THE MODDING.

Any questions or any heads-up can be dealt with via PM, but to ensure a fair and fun game I'll mod and you guys play.

[Roa_Aoife]

Sorry, Farael. The only reason I used Diamond's name is because that's who LiS said she wanted to vote for. I'll stop doing your job now.

[Naria]

I think it's perfectly reasonable that she saved the analysis for later.

Roa, sure it is perfectly reasonable. At the time, however I had no reason to think that she was going to "save" her analyses till later on. There was no mention in her player-by-player post that she had intentions in doing so. Alas, I am not a mind reader and did not know that she had these intentions. However, when Diamond did do her thoughts it became alot more helpful. As I am not an analytical person myself; I do rely on people's thoughts on each matter. That is where I am able to weed out the suspicious from non-suspicious people.


That being said these are the people as of now that I find suspicious.

Caran-I don't really know how to explain it, she seems to be not playing the same way that she normally does(her "weeding" out techniques and fairly knowledgeable) Maybe her brother isn't helping her out as much with this game :p , but I can't be sure if that is the case or she's an Orc trying to figure things out.

Spawn-Mostly from the analyses done on her and Nogrod's points about her. However, this probably isn't the best thing to do either. But I have to trust someone and it happens to be him(for now).

Sleepy-Yes, he was being goofy the first Day. I just don't like the way that he has chosen to play in this game so far. I know that he can be a better contributor than he has been. It just make me uneasy, knowing that someone can and has played better and he isn't(so far).

So, this is it for toDay. I will have to vote for one of these three and fairly soon(in the next hour or so). I have family that has come in from another province and I will be away from my computer until tomorrow sometime.

[Celuien]

Probable innocent:
Caranlondien
Nogrod
Diamond
Dancing Spawn

I want to include the following as innocents, but don't have have enough to convince me to move them up yet:
Grendelien
JennyHallu
Kitanna


Possibly suspicious, but unsure:
Zali
Roa_Aoife

Really, really don't know:
Naria
Sleepy
Legolas in spandex
Findëasëa

And I know I'm...ordinary.

I'm either going to have to vote in the next 1.5 hours or very close (possibly pushing) the deadline. And ugh, I'm not sure what to do. I'm used to figuring out wolves based on their kill, but the save (as grateful as I am for it since it bought us at least one extra day to debate) has thrown me off.

[JennyHallu]

Um...just dropping in...must go cook--I mean prophecy doom to my vegetables.

But: felt this needed to be said.

Nogrod, our mutually suspicious track record may not be at an end: I did not mean my accusation of you as a joke. And I'm growing more suspicious of you. Spawn really looks innocent to me, and apparently to most of the other villagers as well. And even if she isn't, she is too helpful a villager to risk losing this early, especially with the jump we have on the wolves--I mean orcs.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I think there are basically two kinds of "random-voting".

Firstly, you may find yourself in a situation, where you have to vote, and you have nothing to go on with: no theories, no arguments, no reasoned suspicions etc. Then you may vote by hunch: just thinking who feels the worst, or whom your intuition tells you gives out the foulest impression. That's something you may be forced to do, and I myself accept it as a last resort.Ah, but then it's not random anymore. Voting based on a gut feeling isn't random because there is something that made you feel uneasy about someone.

EDIT: PS. My suspicions of Spawn are a prime example of what I meant with this public assessment: as I stated the reasons why I suspected her, she and others could have their say with shared arguments. And because of these comments, I have already declared coming down with part of my suspicions - as we have found a source for that misunderstanding together. This is the way, I think, we should play. Only three orcs around: we others are at the same side!That's nice, but generally if one is innocent I don't think they should rely too much on other people's opinions because they can't know whether they are orcs or not.


Now, I'll take a moment to say a few words about some of the quieter inhabitants of this village.

- Azaelia. First post: Says that those who get a dream shouldn't leave too obvious clues for other villagers although they should somehow indicate that they had a dream. I would have expected a bit more from her as her first post, but she said that she had to go elsewhere, so I understand that she probably didn't have time to start analysing other villagers then.

Second post: Ah, now she's being herself. Goes through the villagers and states her opinion of them. It's interesting, though, that she chose to pick only me alongside of herself as a probable innocent although there were other people, too, that she didn't seem to find very guilty (like Nogrod).

Third post: Wants to give Diamond the benefit of doubt and says that Glirdan and Sleepy look equally suspicious. Votes for Glirdan because of his random vote. Fourth post: Defends her earlier actions. Says that as an orc she wouldn't have named her fellow orc as a second innocent with herself which means that Spawn isn't an orc (interesting logics there ;) ).

Something in Azaelia doesn't feel quite normal although her posts are generally well reasoned and everything. I'll keep an eye on her.

- Findëasëa. First post: Didn't express her own thoughts at all, and said very little about anything. Second post: Votes for Glirdan because "his posts had very little substance. He was also quick to choose a random vote and explain away his lack of posts". I don't think Findëasëa can afford to vote someone because of insufficiently substantial posts. I need to hear more from her before making any conclusions.

- Grendelien. First post: Didn't say much. She commented the dreaming issue, though, and her conclusion was that "we should act how we see best fit, given the situation". A somewhat typical first post.

Second post: Agrees that Diamond may look bad, but says that those who seem to be helpful might actually be orcs (mentiones Nogrod and Celuien). Votes for Glirdan because she's suspicious of "some of those who voted for Diamond", and it's the only reason she has at that point.

Third post: Regrets her vote and explains her behaviour. Isn't convinced about Diamond's innocence. Says that she was suspicious of Celuien and Caranlondien, but now she can't find things that would incriminate Caran. Says that if Spawn is innocent, Caran might be an orc, though. I'd like to know where she got that idea. Just curious. I can't decide if Grendelien makes more peculiar or good posts. Worth watching, like everyone in this village actually, but maybe even more so.

- Naria. First post: Day 1 chatting, comments on the dream issue and says that those who get a dream should reveal their dream only when they think the time is right. Second post, explains her first post and says that we should drop talking about the dreams and concentrate on catching the orcs.

Third post: Apologises for not voting, says that she hasn't found anyone suspicious yet. Fourth post: Points out that Diamond's words contradict with her actions about analysing the events in the village. Hmm, I've never seen Naria this helpful. Is this a good or bad sign? ;) In any case, keep it up.

- Kitanna. First post: Comments the dreaming issue. Second post: Gives a little summary about the day thus far with her comments in it. Third post: Goes through everyone who has received votes giving her thoughts about them. Votes for Sleepy because "the plea for life (for lack of a better phrase) on Day one, before any suspicions had been cast on him is too much for me. It would appear to be foolish for a wereorc, but nothing ever seems to be too foolish in these games". Kitanna's behaviour is helpful and she seems reasonable to me at this point.

- Legolas. The most confused novice I've seen. It's hard to tell anything about her.


Edit: Cross-posted quite a bit...

[Diamond18]

Actually, if I may... what's the matter with being suspicious of other people's voting? Voting more than anything reveals people's true agendas.

Who a player does or does not vote for and their reasons for it can be very telling.

Grend, I apologize, I've just realized that I misunderstood what you were saying. You regretted voting for Glirdan based on being suspicious of other people for their votes against me, rather than regretting that you were suspicious of those voters. Ah. Right. I get it now.

Well, at any rate I appreciate any vote that helps save my life.

[Kitanna]

This will probably be my only post of the day.
the reasons were pretty bad, if you look at them closer)
I don't think Spawn's reasons for suspecting Roa are bad. I wasn't convinced of Roa's guilt because of them, but it did make me go back and have a look at her. I don't see Roa as a major threat right now, but I still wouldn't call Spawn's reasons bad.
why on earth would an orc lie about the person dreamt of (and get caught by that)[/QUOTE
An orc that sacrifices him/herself in the right manner can lead his/her teammates to a victory. It's not always the case, but it's a possibility.
[QUOTE] I'm automatically suspicious of her and automatically trusting of him. So should I trust my gut on these two or realize when I'm not objective enough? I hate to go against my gut, but I hate to be irrational
Diamond said this on the subject of Nogrod and Jenny. While I'm sure most of us have this feeling at the beginning of the game. I'm just worried because if we're wrong about our gut feelings, we could all be in a lot of trouble.
If I was a Seer or a Ranger or a Hunter or whatever, then maybe I'd been in a position to help the village, but as it stands, I know nothing. I really have no purpose in this game but to stay alive and try to figure out who is who.
I find this little bit from Diamond rather unsettling. Everyone in this villager (minus the orcs) is in a position to help. We can all help with well-thought out arguements and if we try to avoid random voting at all costs. Diamond saying she cannot really help the village. It unnerves me anyone would say that and a red flag goes up in my mind. I know bringing up other games is frowned upon, but I've seen Diamond play before and she has been far from unhelpful. So, why call attention to being "unhelpful"? What possible reason can she have to say that? What are you trying to hide yourself from, Diamond?
Also she keeps saying she is an ordo, but the more she says it the more I feel she is anything but an ordo. We all know you can say you're just an innocent villager until the cows come home, but it doesn't make it so. I had very little suspicions of Diamond until I read that post.
Now, if I was an orc, I wouldn't put a fellow Orc's name on the innocent list with only my own alongside. It's not good for the group mentality: what if something happened and I was lynched...then someone might connect us, and we'd be out two.
This little bit of Zali's gives me a little bit of suspicion. I find her relatively innocent, but that post raises a few questions. If Zali is an orc and we lynch her it would seem she's trying to say "if I was an orc I'd never be stupid enough to put my comrade's name on an innocent list." And we are thrown off and ignore Spawn (Spawn was the other name on the innocent list, right?) and it turns out Spawn was an orc all along. Now this is a pretty stupid theory because I don't think Zali would post something so careless if she were an orc. I'll be watching Zali a little closer now, but I don't find her suspicious enough to vote for.
True. It would make more sense for an orc to make an "innocent" pair with an innocent, though (knowing this) I wouldn't put it past a bold orc to point out a second member of the pack on an innocent list. Bluff and double bluff.
I see Celuien and I share the same opinion on this.
Voting more than anything reveals people's true agendas.
Not always, Diamond, not always. Voting does provide the village with a person's true agenda, but people can twist their vote to hide what they're really up to. Looking at votes is a good way to catch someone, but we have to keep in mind it is not foolproof.

Ack! So I've spent about an hour on this reading and commenting as I go, but now I have about three minutes to wrap things up and vote.

++ Diamond

I'm not overly suspicious of Diamond, but her unhelpful post really set off an alarm about her. The fact she said that really got me worried. I just can't shake it.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Legolas,
Why are you voting for Diamond? Can you have posts thatare more than a sentence? We need reasoned argumentments, not random statements. Try to be useful to the village.

Yes, I agree, and also, Legolas, you posted that your vote was for Diamond, and was located within your last post. Your last post was this:

I guess she is a bit peculiar. I posted. Dunno if I'm too late.

Assuming you didn't delete the post in question, there's something that needs to be explained.

When you're voting, you need to put the person's name behind two plus signs, and leave that in its own line. Like this:

++your vote's name here

Except that you need to put it in bold face, which I didn't do here, in order not to generate confusion about was my vote example actually real.

You also need to give some explanation, preferably with examples or some other kind of evidence in order to back up your vote (otherwise, people just think you're suspicious).

For instance, here's some suspicion for you right now. Your behavior sends up some red flags, Legolas. One-liner posts are not particularly helpful. They don't do much to further the rest of the group's understanding of you. Voting without proof or explanation of any kind is to be suspected, so be careful. So I'm going to help you out here: Why do you suspect Diamond? Can you give us any examples of her behavior that sent up red flags for you?

Please don't take this post as a personal attack. I know you're new at this, and that you were confused yesterDay, so I'm trying to help you out. I'm willing to cut you some slack, depending on how you play for today, but it may not last.

[Nogrod]

This seems really getting intresting... and my time is zero! :mad:

I'm trying to join you as soon as I can!

Just a short note to Caran

Nogrod makes good points, but he also makes me uneasy. Are you suggesting that without well-founded suspicions to go on, we should lynch the quiet people? I can see some of the appeal. It's true, what you said, that quiet people get more and more dangerous as the game goes on. But that's also the sort of plan a bunch of loud orcs would want.


Not it isn't. Orcs love those who do nothing, they are easy prey, and not worth killing during the night: the gifteds and the good players are their primary night-targets... during the daytime good players fight back, during the night they can't.


And Jenny: thank's for your kind words again... ;)

[Caranlondien]

I decided to analyze Nogrod first, because when I was part-way through writing my last post, he posted some things that made me more suspicious of him (if you go back to my last post, you'll see I put in some thoughts on his post).

Nogrod:

DAY ONE

#2: Suggests dreamers (besides Shaman) reveal their dreams as they happen.

#4: Defends plan, saying it will force the orcs to react rather than act. Also likes Celuien's suggestion that dreamers leave obscure hints, but thinks it might be too difficult then to determine what was a hint and what was not.

#6: Agrees with Roa that the Shaman role is "interesting" in that once the Shaman dies, we won't be scouring their posts for clues (except, of course, for the first dream).

#26: Thinks many players have made a hasty judgement on his dreamer plan. Says there's no way the orcs could benefit from it.

#32: Corrects Spawn, who had said that once a dreamer dies, we will easily be able to tell whom they dreamt of; says we won't know that person had a dream in the first place. Responds to Jenny's comment that revealing known innocents will help the orcs determine who the Shaman is; says it would also limit the scope for the Shaman about who the orcs are, but can't tell which is "heavier". Finally, says his plan is bad for a different reason: if the Shaman chooses mostly experienced players to dream about, we will be eliminating all those experienced players early (since the orcs would kill them).

#38: Agrees with Jenny that "I agree" stuff with no reasoning looks suspicious. Also finds people who say Day 1 is useless suspicious. Divides the villagers who have spoken so far into 3 groups. (Group 1) He thinks Celuien, Roa, Jenny, Spawn, and Caranlondien have been well-reasoned so far. (Group 2) Thinks Grendelien, Glirdan, Kitanna, Findeasea, and Naria have flawed reasoning (or no reasoning at all) in going against his plan. (Group 3) Thinks Diamond and Sleepy are acting suspiciously.

#41: Pretty much restates previous post, saying he won't vote for Group 1, and is willing to give the newbies from Group 2 the benefit of the doubt. Points out that Azaelia and Legolas iS haven't spoken yet.

#51: Vote count

#54: Responds to Roa's question about time zones.

#56: Tells Findeasea to make her vote bold, tells mod he thinks the vote should count anyway.

#58: Apologizes for accidentally changing his vote count in #51.

#60: New vote count. Doubts his suspicions of Diamond and Glirdan, and asks to hear more from Diamond.

#66: Defends his plan against one attack, but then says again that it's bad for other reasons.

#70: Says Sleepy's confession that he has been trying to get himself lynched confuses him and puts those who haven't voted yet in a weird situation. Edits to say cross-posted with Roa, who suggested Sleepy is trying to go for a record for getting lynched Day 1 or Night 1.

#73: Says Diamond's defense of herself (#71) has eased his suspicion of her.

#78: Lists the leading lynching candidates (Diamond, Glirdan, and Sleepy) and seems to briefly analyze each of them, though I can't make out what he's saying exactly about Glirdan. Lists the others who have not yet voted (Grendelien, Zali, Naria, and Legolas iS)

#85: Cross-posts with a bunch of people, and so doesn't realize he's not the only one left to vote; seems to prefer killing Sleepy (who seemed to want to be lynched), but says it would take another person to help him.

#88: Says since Glirdan's fate is already sealed, he might as well give Sleepy his wish and vote for him. (Votes for Sleepy).

#92: Tells Diamond that analyses have often proved useful.

DAY TWO

#99: Rejoices that Ranger staved off the Orcs' attack, but regrets we lynched an innocent yesterday. Says he felt uneasy about the forerunners (Does he mean he felt suspicious of them, or felt uneasy about lynching any of them? Probably the latter.) Warns he has RL stuff going on, won't be around too much toDay.

#101: Cross-posts a tally of votes with Celuien; says he excuses Legolas iS's no-vote as newbie-ness, and Naria's as computer-problems.

#102: Asks Celuien to analyze the Glirdan vote, and he'll do overall suspicions - innocence -claims.

#106: Responds to Roa, who had said she'll analyze Diamond-voters.

#118: Analysis of who people suspect / who they think is innocent

#122: Comments on the massive amount of analysis; wonders why no one analyzed Spawn, who is high on his suspicion list after doing his analysis. Asks some questions about Spawn's objections to his plan.

#127: Says suspicion of Spawn is because he sees her ideas as orc-helping, yet she has somehow not come under suspicion.

#129: Replies to Legolas iS

#141: Says he is toning down his suspicion of Spawn, but still thinks her attack on Roa is odd, and wonders at her suspicions about random voting. Makes a distinction between a "random" gut vote and a truly random (i.e., roll a die) vote.

#148: Worries that the day is wearing on and we have next to no suspects (Which I have to say is concerning me too). Decides to go by confusion-sowing, and lists Spawn and Celuien as two players whose posts have confused him.

#149: Responds to a question Roa asked him (asks what she's asking about)

#162: Responds to Caran's uneasiness, making a good point I hadn't thought of: a bunch of loud orcs might benefit in the short term by having the village kill all the quiet ones, but overall they'd prefer to have quiet people to hide amongst.

My thoughts: In #60, saying that he doubts his suspicions of the two people at that time in the lead for votes puts him in a very safe position if they're both innocent. Whichever one ends up dying, he can say he didn't think they were guilty. However, if they are both innocent, then it's good he doubts his suspicions of them... hmm, you could take this either way. #66 looks oddly defensive of his plan; I mean, he'd already found a flaw in it himself, so why keep defending it from other attacks?

I have a tendency to begin to suspect whomever I analyze, so I want to be cautious, but Nogrod certainly warrants keeping an eye on.

And I just re-checked the thread and added his latest post (#162). It addresses one of my concerns, and makes me less suspicious of him.

[Caranlondien]

That analysis took longer than expected (Nogrod, innocent or not, no one can say you haven't made substantive posts :D ) , and I have to go for a bit. I'll return to analyze Roa.

[Celuien]

Right. Loud orcs vs quiet innocents is exactly what a loud orc would want. Then they're doing all of the theorizing and planning to sway the daytime events and killing the more dangerous loud innocents at night. It leaves them completely in charge of everything.

So far the only vote is Kitanna for Diamond. Kitanna's main reason for the vote seems to have been Diamond's statement that she won't be helpful. That statement looked like Diamond just trying to say that she didn't really know anything with certainty, and was followed by this:

I suppose despite being an ordo I could still come up with some genius theory to help figure out who the Orcs are, but I kind of doubt it. Not my area of strength.

...so I thought she was just saying that she didn't feel confident in theorizing without input from revealed dreams.

Of course, Kitanna has now made me rethink my classifications, so while I most likely will not vote for Diamond, she moves to my watch list again.

And, please, Legolas iS, tell us some more about what you're thinking. One liners and silence only benefit the wereorcs. I'm also willing to give you the benefit of the doubt since you have been confused, but you can see that a plan has been floated that would involve lynching quiet villagers such as yourself. I don't want that to happen since even though I have supported actions in that vein before, I don't want to do so unnecessarily or without giving everyone a proper chance to adjust to the game.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Unfortunately I have to vote now.

There are a few silent people whom I could vote for being around so little that it's impossible to know if they are orcs or not, and if they're not, they aren't helping us to get the culprits.

Then there are a few loud ones who have caught my attention. One of them is Nogrod. I don't think he is suspicious because he made a case (even though it wasn't a case) against me, but because he twisted some of my words, and when a few people said that they didn't find my behaviour alltogether that suspicious, he started backing off (seeing that it might be dangerous to pursue this further, perhaps).

I really need to go now and I don't want to put Diamond so clearly in the lead (did Legolas' vote count?), so I'll explain my vote more tomorrow if I'm not dead by then. In the meantime, you can look at Caran's analysis of him, because she makes some points that I agree with.


++Nogrod


Good night.

[Roa_Aoife]

I have to say I sort of agree with Nogrod about lynching the quiet ones. It always seems to get maddenly quiet in the last days of a village because everyone who contributes has been killed, either by orcs or by lynchings. Also, orcs have been knwn to be intentionally quiet because no one ever looks in their direction to lynch them. Of the quiet ones: (These are taken from the post list at 5 or under posts)

Findeasea & Grendelien are new to the game, but despite the low posting number, they still manage to be thoughtful and substantial in their posts. I would like to keep them around for a little while longer at least.

Kitanna I don't what to make of. She seems to playing to her usual style- A few, good posts. (She's never survived long enough in games I've played with her to get a good feel for her way of playing.)

Zali is at the high end of the quiet people. She makes good posts despite the low volume, but several others have remarked (I believe) that she normally posts more.

Naria posts about the same way she always does. She doesn't do a whole lot of theorizing, but she does ask good questions.

Spawn also at the high end of the quiet people. She kind of pops in and pops back out with out much warning or explanation. I've not played with her before, so I don't know if this is typical.

Edit:Cross posted with Spawn, and forgot LiS.

LiS I'm excusing since she just seems to be really confused about WW at this point. Hopefully she'll catch up and be able to contribute.

[Celuien]

Unless I'm mistaken, Findëasëa hasn't arrived yet today. I hope she does. Farael has implied that non-posters for a day will automatically be killed (is this correct, oh great mod?), and I'd hate to lose anyone needlessly. Unless she's a wereorc, in which case she's more than welcome to stay away.

Since I have to go soon and am not sure if I'll make it back before the day ends, I'll have to cast a vote now.

++ Azaelia of Willowbottom

I'm interested by Spawn's suspicions of Nogrod. I think I'll have to take another look at both of them, but unfortunately, that will have to wait for tomorrow. If I'm still alive.

[Farael]

This is a message from the Prime Minister of the United States of America
*Hint**Hint* the US has a President

It has been hereby decreted that Legolas iS's vote will NOT count unless he votes again in the proper fashion.

Furthermore, it is now forbidden for any of the players to post or vote after the deadline, even if the Mod has not said anything about it (sorry guys, I might not be home tonight... that's why I wanted a co-mod but we didnt have enough players anyway.

In any case, you can all post for about three more hours and fifty minutes.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Diamond, there is a big difference between volume and substance.

Jenny, this doesn't sit quite right with me. I feel like Diamond has gotten down to business very well today (and even had before this particular post of yours). Her posting on the first day, I'm willing to forgive and forget for now, as there are aspects of my own behavior yesterDay that I'd like for the same thing to be done with.

And Celuien, I want to know why you voted for me. You expressed suspicion of me, but I feel like I wasn't given much of a chance.

[Diamond18]

I find this little bit from Diamond rather unsettling. Everyone in this villager (minus the orcs) is in a position to help. We can all help with well-thought out arguements and if we try to avoid random voting at all costs.

I agree, but mostly what I was responding to in my post was the assertion that my early Day 1 posts were useless (I didn't have anything to go on, and chose to take the opportunity to have fun rather than ulcerate over the Day 1 curse). Then Naria accused me of being unhelpful in my analysis. So, basically, what I wanted to say was "What do you expect from me? Blood?" I will post to the best of my abilities, and if that's deemed not useful enough to the village then I guess I'm bound to die, because this village seems eager to lynch me for lack of substance -- rather than actual Orcishness. I seem to have been dubbed a lack of space early on. So I only feel it fair to point out that if/when I die as an innocent, it will look very bad for those who voted against me because the reasoning isn't very logical.

So, why call attention to being "unhelpful"? What possible reason can she have to say that? What are you trying to hide yourself from, Diamond?

I was merely responding to claims already made against me, re: the unhelpful business.

Also she keeps saying she is an ordo, but the more she says it the more I feel she is anything but an ordo. We all know you can say you're just an innocent villager until the cows come home, but it doesn't make it so. I had very little suspicions of Diamond until I read that post.

Finally, a decent reason for voting against me. I don't mean to reiterate ordo-ness, I just got annoyed (again) be being accused of being a waste of space. If you find loud declarations of ordoness Orcish, than I suppose I do look Orcish from your viewpoint.

And yet, here we go again:

I'm not overly suspicious of Diamond, but her unhelpful post really set off an alarm about her. The fact she said that really got me worried. I just can't shake it.

You're not overly suspicious of me, but you're voting for me for perceived unhelpfulness. So I guess you just think I'm not an asset to the village? Wow. In a game with players like LiS, I'm really actually insulted by this. :rolleyes:

Oh well. If I do die, it will be most fun watching you try to figure out which of my accusers had evil intentions.

EDIT: X-posted with everyone in the known universe.

[Roa_Aoife]

I have to go soon, so I'm going to get my vote in now, just in case.

I don't know really what to make of this village. Everyone is acting at the same level of suspiciousness to me, and I can't really decide who deserves a vote. I don't really want to get rid of the people who are contributing to the discussion since they're keeping things going. Of the quiet ones, I think Kitanna is looking the worst right now. So

++Kitanna

Edit: Cross posted with Zali and Diamond.

[Caranlondien]

I don't know really what to make of this village.
Tell me about it. :rolleyes:

Three and a half hours left, and no major suspects... As promised, I'll do an analysis of Roa.

I just can't decide whether Nogrod's new plan of lynching the quiet ones is something the orcs would or wouldn't want. I originally thought as Celuien does, that orcs could kill the loud ones at night and lynch the quiet during the day, but Nogrod did make some good points in his favor. I think if I have time, I'll analyze Celuien, too, as she and Nogrod are a bit at odds over this plan. Plus she's another one I naturally want to trust, and I wouldn't want to let an orc slip by me so easily! Sorry, I know other people have done analyses, but it's just about the only way I can work out whom to vote for... Plus, we do benefit from cross-checking.

[Sleepy Ranger]

What I Think About You - WITH REASONS! :D

Caranlondien: Innocent
I believe shes innocent. Shes been active in discussion and hasn't really given me any reason to suspect her.
Suspicion Level: *
---

JennyHallu: Not sure
JennyHallu is a very good player and I suggest we keep our eye on her, if shes an innocent then good for us however if she is an orc we're screwed. So I'll be keeping an eye on her just to be safe.
Suspicion Level: ***
---

Nogrod: A bit on the suspicious side
Now heres an excellent player. He could pull off quite about anything, whenever I've seen him play as an innocent hes played very well and has always been a prime target of the bad guys. However, in a way I have a feeling that hes been playing this game rather differently. I have a half formed theory linking him with Spawn, I'll work on this and see if anything works out.
Suspicion Level: ****
---

Grendelien: Not sure
I'm really not sure what to think about this one.
Suspicion Level: **
---

Findëasëa: Flip-floppey
No, I'm not calling her flip-floppey, I'm just saying thats what I am about her. I'd keep an eye on her but theres not enough to see.
Suspicion Level: ***
---

Celuien: Not sure
I'm not sure about her. I've a gut feeling that says shes up to no good but thats not really something you can rely on too well. For now I guess I'll leave her be with minimum suspicion.
Suspicion Level: *
---

Zali: O_o
Uh... I don't know?
Suspicion Level: N/A
---

Diamond: Innocent
I'm pretty sure Diamond is innocent. She never really struck me as suspicious, she had some fun on Day 1 and that alone proves to me she isn't here for the killing. At this stage I'm not really willing to believe that Diamond is anything but innocent, however later developments could prove me wrong, I wont rule it out.
Suspicion Level:
---

Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant: Very suspicious
At the moment since I have some sort of link between her and Nogrod I'd be bold enough to say that if she is an orc so is Nogrod and if she is innocent so is Nogrod. Its a very bold statement and probably a bit rash as well but it makes some sort of sense to me so I'll stick with it till I can solidify it. I'd suggest lynching her today.
Suspicion Level: *****
---

Kitanna: Somewhat suspicious
She can be a rather aggressive player at times, in fact I believe shes been aggressive in all the games I've seen her play. Her silence disturbs me, could something be wrong? I don't know but I'd definately like to hear from her.
Suspicion Level: ****
---

Naria: Innocent
Naria doesn't seem suspicious to me. For now I'd leave her be but once I have a look at the other folk it couldn't hurt to turn her way. For the moment I won't waste my time with her but if I come across anything I shall press.
Suspicion Level: *
---

Sleepy Ranger: Self-analysis is lame
I've always found people who analyze themselves sort of guilty. Probably just in my head but oh well, I won't be doing one for myself.
---

Legolas in spandex: noob
Shes a noob and has no idea what shes doing. I doubt she would've recieved a special role but with dear Farael, who knows? ;)
Suspicion Level: What you say?
---

Roa_Aoife: Probably Innocent
Its a wild guess actually, I'll keep my eye on her but I believe shes innocent. I've seen Roa play as an evil-doer and I've seen her play as an innocent, I don't see much wrong with her.
Suspicion Level: **
---

Thats all for now. I'll get to work on my Nogrod-Spawn theory and get back to you folk as soon as I can. My vote will probably be for Spawn but it shall wait, I want to see what develops.

[Naria]

I am out of time! The most suspicous for me toDay would have to be Sleepy. He said that he was going to be more "normal" and help the village more toDay, but if I am correct he has only done the one post toDay and not much in it. I am not discounting the other two that I have on my list; I just think he is the most suspicous for toDay.

++Sleepy Ranger

[Findëasëa]

Good morning…er afternoon everyone,
First I would like to explain my choice for voting for Glirdan. I apologize for the lack of detail or substance in the explanation in my choice, I was under the impression that the voting ended one minute after I made my post, not two hours after. In order to make the deadline my explanation was rushed and, as a result, flawed. I understand that my accusation seemed unfounded and hypocritical, for the latter I have no excuses, I do look suspicious for my lack of informative posts. I will try to remedy this. My choice to vote for Glirdan was based mostly upon my perception of his actions. Disregarding all of the in character stuff, he seemed suspicious because of his random vote and because of his explanations. The random vote seemed suspicious because the nonchalance of his words seemed to contradict what I perceived as defensiveness in his explanations. We now know that this is innocent, so my perceptions were obviously wrong.

I have been trying to analyze the information posted today and its significance in discovering wereorcs. If I were a wereorc, I would try as hard as possible to make my image separate from that of my fellows in the minds of the other players. This would be beneficial in that if one were to die the others would not be reveled. Because I am new to the village, I am not quite familiar with the nature that individual people ordinarily project. This may handicap my ability to determine if a person is going out of their way to create a different image than usual. I am not trying to imply that this is a universal truth, just a way that one might be better able to figure out who is guilty. I guess that on the first few days this would be especially true. I will come back in a bit and post a list of people and who they have mentioned or interacted with.

[Legolas in spandex]

Reason for my vote: Diamond seems rather spontanious and she set about giving a non-useful post early in the game. She seems overly dramatic in her posts and has some desire to constantly speak of killing orcs, almost in a defesnsive manner as if afraid to speak too much of other things. As I have said..

++Diamond

[Farael]

Legolas' vote WILL count. But please, remember to bold your vote.

[Diamond18]

I have some ideas on who to vote for, but I'm going to hold off as long as possible (non-retractable voting makes me nervous). I'm at work and am about to leave, so when I'm at home and have more leisure to peruse the day thus far, I'll try to do some kind of review of my ideas/suspicions about all the players and make as informed a vote as I can. So, more later.

PS -- LiS, I'm always melodramatic. *dons valkryie cap, braids, and anatomically correct breastplate, sings opera* But I have to close up this joint and get home, so you'll all have to wait for my final aria.

[Caranlondien]

Roa_Aoife

DAY ONE

#5: Notes that the Shaman role is interesting; Shaman need not come forward (villagers who dream can sacrifice themselves instead), but on the other hand, once the Shaman dies, we can't just look back through their posts to figure out who they dreamt of.

#11: Says she thinks deciding whether to reveal the dream is up to the dreamer. Wants to move on and talk about strategies. Comments that random votes are better than no votes at all.

#16: Responds to Jenny's (joking) accusation.

#28: Asks Naria to explain two quotes, one of which was made by Nogrod, not Naria.

#40: Apologizes for misquoting Naria; tells Spawn her response to Jenny was joking. Defends random votes as a last resort.

#46: Says she must vote. Says Diamond is suspicious-looking, but doesn't think an orc would be that reckless off the bat. Decides to vote for Glirdan.

#53: Raises question about Timezones.

#69: Suggests that Sleepy is trying to get lynched because he's been killed Day 1 or Night 1 for the past few games and wants to go for a record.

#74: Points out to Nogrod tht Diamond is currently in the lead for lynching votes.

#76: Updates voting list.

#79: Lists those who have not yet voted.

#91: Says analysis can be difficult.

DAY TWO

#105: Says she'll analyze those who voted for Diamond.

#111: Analysis of Celuien. Decides Celuien looks less suspicious and more helpful.

#115: Laughter at "#71 Calls Sleep a dork"

#116: Analysis of Caran. Say she can't seem to find anything suspicious about me. ( :D Well, that's good, because I'm innocent).

#120: Analysis of Jenny. Can't seem to find much on her, either, but says that out of the three she's analyzed, Jenny looks most suspicious.

#126: Says Spawn's accusation of her left her confused.

#138: Explains Nogrod's short-hand in his vote summary.

#145: Expresses confusion about Grendelien's reasoning for voting for Glirdan. Agrees with Diamond that everyone seems to be trying to find fault with her. Answers Naria about someone postponing analysis; asks Nogrod his thoughts on "the whole suspicion thing".

#147: Asks Legolas why she voted for Diamond.

#151: Clarifies that she was asking Nogrod about his analysis of people's suspicions.

#154: Apologizes to Farael for "doing his job".

#167: Says she "sort of" agrees with Nogrod about lynching the quiet ones, because orcs can hide in quiets, and it gets quiet the last few days if all the louds are lynched. Lists "the quiet ones" as Findeasea, Grendelien, Kitanna, Zali, Naria, Spawn, and LiS.

#172: Decides that out of the quiet ones, Kitanna is looking the worst right now. Votes for Kitanna, saying she has to leave soon.


My thoughts: Post #11 (when Roa makes the now infamous statement about random votes being better than no votes at all) doesn't seem that suspicious to me. I agree with those who are opposed to random votes, but it seems to me that this statement was made in an attempt to convince people to vote, in general. Since then, she's sort of dropped out of the action, doing some analyses and mostly seeming thoughtful. Now this is no reason to think her guilty, I suppose, but she is clearly being careful. I still don't know what to think about the "killing-the-quiet-ones" scheme, so neither am I sure what to think about Roa's stance on it. In short, I'm keeping my eye on her.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Azaelia is Zali?!? No wonder... *slaps head*

[Nogrod]

I know that this looks bad: just writing reaction-posts to others (kind of defending my position), but I just have these twenty minutes or so, and I have just seen what has happend after my last visit here.

So a couple of fast remarks.

= Spawn
Then there are a few loud ones who have caught my attention. One of them is Nogrod. I don't think he is suspicious because he made a case (even though it wasn't a case) against me, but because he twisted some of my words, and when a few people said that they didn't find my behaviour alltogether that suspicious, he started backing off (seeing that it might be dangerous to pursue this further, perhaps)

I do admit rephrasing your post badly - as I checked it afterwards. My bad. But not intentional (see the widht of the analysis...). But the second point I don't understand: people grow more suspicious because of what is said and they grow less suspicious with it. I just basically learned from others, that there were other misunderstandings about the dreams (that they would be revealed), and started to think, that maybe you too could have misunderstood them. So I didn't tone down my suspicion about you because some others said they didn't find you suspicious (indeed there were also people who thought you suspicious too...).

= Caran
I just can't decide whether Nogrod's new plan of lynching the quiet ones is something the orcs would or wouldn't want. I originally thought as Celuien does, that orcs could kill the loud ones at night and lynch the quiet during the day, but Nogrod did make some good points in his favor.

This would need to be checked, but I have thought, that Celuien and I have been quite evenminded with this one. Celuien stated, that there is a danger of lynching innocents more, than lynching orcs - I do realize this danger with the quiets, but that danger also lurks when we lynch the active players. And really: these are suggestions for everyone to think about, not plans driven with some madman vigour... :p

Trying to be back asp.

[Findëasëa]

After starting to compile the interactions that people have had with one another I realized that my approach was too simplistic. There is a huge disparity between those who post a lot and those who stay silent. The list I was hoping to create may be more useful if I am still around later in the game with a fewer number of people who are forced to interact.

I have also been thinking about what Nogrod said earlier about focusing on the quiet ones in the group in order to protect the villagers who contribute the most. He comments that wereorcs could be attemping to hide under the radar to diffuse suspicion, and that leaving quiet villagers around does not contribute to the village overall. His logic in this post is well founded and his argument is valid. The one thing that I must call into question is his deeper motivation. Obviously, due to his many contributions to the discussion he would not fall into a category that would be considered for lynching under his own logic. This isn’t directly suspicious, as he did make a valid point and he, as well as everyone elce, is trying to survive. The problem I have with this reasoning is that it focuses the attention of people on a more random vote (since the people being targeted are quiet there is not much to base votes on). If one or more of the wereorcs is more interactive, they might direct suspicion upon one of the more quiet people who is innocent. I guess my issue is the founding for such a vote.

[Caranlondien]

I have to go soon, and must decide how to vote. It's difficult, because one can interpret a single action in so many ways - Nogrod seems reasonable, and not set in a single way of thinking. Or, perhaps he's eager to please, and doesn't want to ruffle anyone's feathers. My analysis of Roa didn't yield much, and I'm not ready to sacrifice someone who, if she is innocent, is surely an asset to the village.

Decisions... I'll go re-read a little and then cast my vote.

[Caranlondien]

1. Kitanna --> Diamond (Diamond 1)
2. Spawn --> Nogrod (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1)
3. Celuien --> Azaelia (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1)
4. Roa --> Kitanna (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1)
5 Naria --> Sleepy Ranger (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1)
6. Legolas --> Diamond (Diamond 2, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1)

I'm concerned that the votes are spreading so thin. And I am quite inclined to believe Diamond innocent, now (because of her reaction yesterday, coupled with her substantive posts today). I just can't shake this bad feeling about Nogrod. So I'll vote for he who I find most suspicious:

++Nogrod

[Caranlondien]

1. Kitanna --> Diamond (Diamond 1)
2. Spawn --> Nogrod (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1)
3. Celuien --> Azaelia (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1)
4. Roa --> Kitanna (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1)
5 Naria --> Sleepy Ranger (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1)
6. Legolas --> Diamond (Diamond 2, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1)
7. Caran --> Nogrod (Diamond 2, Nogrod 2, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1)

[Sleepy Ranger]

Time for my vote, I'll stick with Spawn

FOR GREAT JUSTICE!

++Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

What I Think About You - WITH REASONS! :D

JennyHallu: Not sure
JennyHallu is a very good player and I suggest we keep our eye on her, if shes an innocent then good for us however if she is an orc we're screwed. So I'll be keeping an eye on her just to be safe.
Suspicion Level: ***


We're screwed.

++JennyHallu

Edit: cross-posted with Sleepy (unfortunately)

[Sleepy Ranger]

Oh My! Azaelia, do you mean to say you've had a dream of JennyHallu and she is an orc? In which case I regret not waiting a few more minutes before voting!

[Grendelien]

Exactly what do you mean by this? I attacked no one at all (seriously) the first day. My vote for Glirdan was purely a defensive act (better he die than me). How was I quick to attack? I've mostly been responding to accusations so far.

By "quick to attack," I meant that you seemed overly offensive (and defensive), as a defensive strategy. However, I can understand your need to protect yourself, as no villager or orc wants to be lynched. Orcs generally have a greater reason to be defensive, since they are smaller in number, but it would probably be unwise for an orc to be openly defensive so often. I do have a tendency to second-guess myself, which means that I think frequent defensive posting could be a diversion (gah, back to that again)...but since I cannot come to any conclusion about this yet, I won't use Diamond's self-protective posts as a reason to find her guilty thus far.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

There is no going back, now.

That is exactly what I meant to say...so, in a word, yes. I did.

And I fear I will be orc meat tonight...Oh dear. :(

Edit: cross-posted with Grendelien

I've been going back and forth about this ever since I got in yesterday night. And subtlety was foiled: Jenny plays too well.

[Nogrod]

Oh my!

I think like I have seen this situation before. Nogrod on his way to gallows... Well not yet, but anyhow.

I'll try to catch up with what has happened. Half an hour! Auch...

[Grendelien]

Oh my, I was originally considering voting for Spawn or Nogrod, based on the various posts I have read, but Zali's newest post about JennyHallu is very telling. I will go back and reread Jenny's posts, along with others' anayses of her.

[Nogrod]

Are there enough of us here still? We need two votes! I can give one.

= Sleepy
Oh My! Azaelia, do you mean to say you've had a dream of JennyHallu and she is an orc?

= Zali
That is exactly what I meant to say.

And I fear I will be orc meat tonight...Oh dear.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I think we can just swing it. By my calculations, 3 people have not yet voted... 4 should be enough for a majority, with the wide variety in votes.

*hurries back to refresh the thread*

[Nogrod]

but Zali's newest post about JennyHallu is very telling. I will go back and reread Jenny's posts, along with others' anayses of her.

I don't think you need to. Jenny has been dreamed of, and I trust it, because it would be fool's work to be an orc-Zali and to lie about the one dreamt of. We should find the lie out immediately after Jenny's death, and would kill Zali the next day...

++ Jenny Hallu

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Grendelien, I expect that as you re-read her posts, and others' analyses, the only thing you will find is a helpful, reasonable "villager" and a bunch of people who fell for the act.

I would have too, if I was not chosen last night.

edit: cross-posted with Nogrod

[Grendelien]

Ok, I will trust the dream:

++JennyHallu

[Sleepy Ranger]

If Grendelien and Nogrod vote for JennyHallu she can still be taken out and if she does turn out to be innocent then we'd know who we have to lynch the next Day. I've seen JennyHallu play before and as I said, "If shes an orc we're screwed." Its best not to take any chances, I don't mean to sound to forward but I am sort of panicing over the whole thing for some reason. My suggestions, go for JennyHallu. I doubt her posts will give any clues at all.

EDIT: Seems my post wasn't needed >_>

[Nogrod]

1. Kitanna --> Diamond (Diamond 1)
2. Spawn --> Nogrod (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1)
3. Celuien --> Azaelia (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1)
4. Roa --> Kitanna (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1)
5 Naria --> Sleepy Ranger (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1)
6. Legolas --> Diamond (Diamond 2, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1)
7. Caran --> Nogrod (Diamond 2, Nogrod 2, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1)
8. Sleepy --> Spawn (Diamond 2, Nogrod 2, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1, Spawn 1)
9. Zali --> Jenny (Diamond 2, Nogrod 2, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1, Spawn 1, Jenny 1)
10. Nogrod --> Jenny (Diamond 2, Nogrod 2, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1, Spawn 1, Jenny 2)

So this means:
Diamond 2
Nogrod 2
Jenny 2

And Jenny is a dreamt of wolf...

[Nogrod]

Update:

Diamond 2
Nogrod 2
Jenny 3

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

You left this out: Grendelien just voted.

edit: cross-posts flying thick and fast here... cross-posted with Nogrod

[Grendelien]

You're right, Nogrod, Azaelia, and Sleepy, I don't know what I was thinking...if Jenny's innocent, then we know Azaelia was lying...but I trust Azaelia's truthful!

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I am not lying. As Nogrod said, what good would it do? I'd just turn out to be the first unanimous lynchee in the history of TIG.

I think this shaman thing is a bum deal: the reward is death, whichever way you look at it. :p

Actually, it's been pretty fun. I like the twist.

[Nogrod]

1. Kitanna --> Diamond (Diamond 1)
2. Spawn --> Nogrod (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1)
3. Celuien --> Azaelia (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1)
4. Roa --> Kitanna (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1)
5 Naria --> Sleepy Ranger (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1)
6. Legolas --> Diamond (Diamond 2, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1)
7. Caran --> Nogrod (Diamond 2, Nogrod 2, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1)
8. Sleepy --> Spawn (Diamond 2, Nogrod 2, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1, Spawn 1)
9. Zali --> Jenny (Diamond 2, Nogrod 2, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1, Spawn 1, Jenny 1)
10. Nogrod --> Jenny (Diamond 2, Nogrod 2, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1, Spawn 1, Jenny 2)
11. Grendelien --> Jenny (Diamond 2, Nogrod 2, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1, Spawn 1, Jenny 3)

So this means:
Diamond 2
Nogrod 2
Jenny 3

Not voted:
Jenny, Findëasëa, Diamond

[Diamond18]

Well... haven't done my review of the day quite yet, but I think I'm more than willing to join Zali in voting for Jenny. My bad feeling about her from yesterDay has not gone away, only increased, and this is just confirmation that it's more than an automatic bias on my part. It jives with the way I was leaning. Earlier I had decided to hold off on going after Jenny till later; but with a dreamer to back it up, no time like the present. So:

+ + JennyHallu

And, if Jenny does indeed prove guilty, Zali can be crossed off everyone's suspicious list. We have a Ranger to protect her tonight, so I'm exuberant and hopeful at the moment. :)

Edit: Xposted with, well, lots.

[Nogrod]

I think this shaman thing is a bum deal: the reward is death, whichever way you look at it. :p

Actually, it's been pretty fun. I like the twist.

Well done Zali! I appreciate your playing for the village!

You will be our hero!

EDIT: X-posted with Diamond. Let's hope the best with the ranger...

[Sleepy Ranger]

Azaelia! You reek of awesomeness! Good job using one of my descriptions to reveal the dream! :D

I'm pretty sure you'll last the night. I expect either Nogrod or Diamond will not be with us in the morning but then again I am, hopefully wrong. Both would be too valuable to lose yet if either were an orc then it could be messy but with JennyHallu I'd say we've knocked off one of their power players.

Good Work!

[Grendelien]

Nogrod's right, Azaelia! Your revelation was very noble and self-sacrificing!

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Ah, the bitter sting of irony.

~Your friendly neighborhood ranger

ETA: I must have a death wish.

[Nogrod]

Nogrod's right, Azaelia! Your revelation was very noble and self-sacrificing!

Yes. And the orcs will have tough times during the night!

EDIT: X-posted with Zali

[Diamond18]

Ah, the bitter sting of irony.

~Your friendly neighborhood ranger

Oh. Yuck. *Shhhh! Don't let them know that! Otherwise they might have tried killing someone else and waiting till the next Night to kill you!!!!*

Oh well, too late now. *sigh*

I was going to say to Sleepy -- I really don't think I'm potential Orc meat, seeing as I've been the early leader in lynch votes both days. Now I know I'm really not going to die toNight.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Ah, the bitter sting of irony.

~Your friendly neighborhood ranger

Oh you ninny! You ninny, ninny, ninny! If you hadn't revealed that you were the ranger the orcs may have left you alone thinking that the ranger would protect you! Azaelia, you ninny... you did good but you're still a ninny! :mad:

[Findëasëa]

good job Azaelia. thanks for being a team player.
++Jennyhallu

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Oh. Yuck. *Shhhh! Don't let them know that! Otherwise they might have tried killing someone else and waiting till the next Night to kill you!!!!*


I considered keeping my big mouth shut, but decided it was a foregone conclusion.

I was sort of hoping everyone would decide I ought to be lynched toDay so that I could ratchet up the melodrama even more than I did just now.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

*siiigh* ninny, I am.

what an idiot.

*crawls off to hide in shame*

[Diamond18]

Wait, who did you protect Night 1, Zali? It would be helpful to have an innocent confirmed for toMorrow's deliberations. Unless you think this would only guaruntee his/her death the next night. I don't know, I'd really like to have a known innocent we'll all know not to lynch toMorrow.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Dancing Spawn.

I don't think it makes any difference to reveal: an attempt was already made on her life once...the wolves know she's innocent, and now the rest of you all know, too.

and Sleepy, I did wonder about it before typing, but decided it would make no difference.

*sigh*

I've got to stop getting so emotionally twisted into these games.

Well, I know one thing. I NEVER want to be a seer. I don't do subtlety very well.

[JennyHallu]

Hmm...seems everything is going to plan, then, Zali! Good luck to you two without me!

And subtlety was foiled: Jenny plays too well.
Why thank you! And to think I barely posted.

There are two orcs left. They all have more than one word to their name, and are sneaky sneaky. May they kill you all! And trust me, the transformation process is REALLY odd, though he likes the arms. The other one is less fond, but more used to the role.

No need for an orc to kill a dreamer, boys and girls, what are the odds he/she gets a dream again? Kill someone really threatening, like Spawn, Roa, Nogrod, or Diamond.

Hmm...have I said anything useful? Don't think so. Here, another thing for you to uselessly analyse:

++Grendelien, for the joyful friendship we've been developing.

And for my final act, back to character:

YOU'RE ALL GOING TO DIE! Thanks to my friends, of course. You poor villagers haven't got a chance.

Only one thing left: Farael, I am in your hands.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Dancing Spawn.

I don't think it makes any difference to reveal: an attempt was already made on her life once...the wolves know she's innocent, and now the rest of you all know, too.

Was I ever wrong... well in my mind Nogrod is innocent as well now. Diamond has been innocent according to me since Day 1... I really don't know who to look at it now, Roa perhaps?

[Nogrod]

The wisdom of all this last minute-stuff will be seen during the night... I hope we have confused the orcs enough by now... :cool:

[JennyHallu]

Oh and Findesea is a wolf.

[JennyHallu]

Naria is an orc.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I don't suppose that if I lied and said right now that I was lying about being the ranger, it would make any difference?

Thought not.

ah well. Cheers, all.

I wouldn't have revealed Spawn if she wasn't so high on everyone's suspect list...maybe I've bought her some time.

Me and my big mouth.

Well, here's hoping my death is cool.

[Diamond18]

Awesome. Thanks, Zali. *crosses Spawn off her list with a flourish* You've been extremely helpful -- protecting the right person night one (what are the chances!) and bagging us Jenny (though thanks also goes to our unknown Shaman for that). Probably by admitting you are the Ranger you have protected Spawn a second Night, for if the Orcs decided to hold off on you they probably would have gone for her again. So while we lose you early, we get a known innocent Spawn toMorrow. Things are still looking pretty good.

[Sleepy Ranger]

The wisdom of all this last minute-stuff will be seen during the night... I hope we have confused the orcs enough by now... :cool:

Nogrod, I tell you this since I trust you. Go over JennyHallu's posts (skip the last maybe) and make a list of people and how much shes mentioned/suspected them. Try and work something up with that, I think I have a plan. ;)

[JennyHallu]

Good luck...I made like 6 posts ;)

[Sleepy Ranger]

Good luck...I made like 6 posts ;)

But my dear, this is Sleepy Ranger and when Sleepy Ranger wants to he can do some pretty crazy stuff. :) Anyway I'd say we quit spamming the thread with all these one-liners. You're dead, whoop-dee-doo, now behave and quit trying to confuse us. :)

[JennyHallu]

Whoo-hoo!! Misbehaving dead person! Right here!!!

Naria REALLY is an orc, guys.

(3 lines!)

[Sleepy Ranger]

Whoo-hoo!! Misbehaving dead person! Right here!!!

Naria REALLY is an orc, guys.

(3 lines!)

I know, I believe you. Unless something else comes up I plan to vote for Naria tommorrow... :)

[Diamond18]

Good luck...I made like 6 posts ;)

Would it be overly gloaty for me to sit here saying how much I suspected you? But really, this is big for me, since it's the first dadgummed time my instincts have been spot on. I was afraid to follow them, but still. I want some credit. :p

Of course, all these crazy posts now that you know you're doomed is going to wreck havoc on the analysis toMorrow. You're going to cackle with mad glee while you read the posts, aren't you? Oh well. Right now I'm just so happy you're an Orc. Yay for instincts!

[Farael]

Guys, please.... I asked you stopped posting at Six CT, eleven GMT..... what happened? I get here half an hour late and I find that the posting has not stopped!! Jenny, your death is coming up.... question is, is Jenny REALLY a wereorc? HAHAHAHA Good job Azaelia, you got them all.

[Farael]

After enjoying a moderate success during the night the village discussed their way into a second lynching.

-----It should be noted here that even though, technically, only the ranger had had a minor victory everyone decided (unilaterally, meaning without the ranger’s approval) to share the glory ----

Opinions were divided and for a moment it seemed that no consensus was going to be achieved. Yet as the day trickled down towards the night, a revelation happened

Azaelia: “I am the ranger and JennyHallu is a wereorc!”

Nogrod: “Hey, wait a minute, the Seer is the one to have dreams, not the ranger!”

Voice outside of the viewer’s field of view: “Tsk…. Nogrod!! There is no seer on this game”

Nogrod: “Yes, of course!! I mean, eh…. The Shaman is the one to have dreams… no, that’s not accurate, anyone can have dreams… I meant eh… oh…. uh…”

SleepyRanger: “Ok, we got it… we’ll ignore that last remark. But then, why did you say you are the ranger, Zali you fool! Having a dream does not make you any more innocent than having a nightmare!”

Naria: “…“ Naria is known for NOT being very talkative on werewolf/orc/cat/penguin/little-furry-creatures-from-alpha-centauri games

Findëasëa : “Wait a moment… if having a dream does not mean you are an innocent… how do we know that you are the ranger at all?”

Azaelia: “Because I protected Spawn last night”

Findëasëa: “You are hopeless… I was trying to give you a way out”

Naria: “…”

Kitanna: “Well, it still does not mean that she is the ranger I guess… or at least, it’s not certain, but I say we lynch JennyHallu anyway”

Caranlondien: “Yeah! If Azaelia is playing some extremely complicated bluff, we’ll know by tomorrow her true colours after lynching [B[Jenny[/B]”

Naria: “mphhhhh…. …. …. .”

Roa_Aoife [Turning around]: “Look Naria, if you are going to talk say something, don’t just try to get our attention and then stay silen… what the heck is that!!!”

It was then the villagers realized Naria was not doing it just to appear on the day’s kill write up. JennyHallu or well…. A black creature with crooked teeth, bloodshot eyes and a horrible, lumpy face… was slowly retreating towards the exit, as the villagers argued with each other. She was dragging Naria as a hostage and had stuffed a scarf that said “The world is going to end, and I’ll help it by killing one bloody elf every night. Really, I hate those elves, all pretty and such. Still, the world is going to end and I will kill them all!! Or at least some, but a woman can dream, can’t she?” (it was a rather long scarf) on Naria’s mouth. The scarf explained Naria’s silence as well as confirming without any doubt that JennyHallu was indeed a wereorc.

The elves ran as fast as only elves can run (without leaving any marks on the snow that covered some patches of the villager for dramatic purposes) and finally corralled JennyHallu before she… or well, it… could escape the village

Azaelia: “I stopped you last night, now I shall finish my job and kill you!”

JennyOrcu: “ugh dar thelar meith dan agggggg”

Celuien: “That’s dark speech… does anyone know what it means?”

Jenny: “No you fools, I was choking in that stupidly long scarf… what was I thinking when I made it? Anyway, Azaelia… I must say the ranger last night caught us by surprise yet you are not him. He was a ten feet tall man, with arms as big as my legs and a chest the size of Sleepy applebarrel.”

Diamond18: “Uh…. I wouldn’t want to sound too argumentative, it’ll get my lynched sooner or later but… there is no-one that fits that description in this village”

Dancing Spawn: “It matters not, I say kill her!!!!!”

Then, as the villagers closed their circle, threatening the wereorc with sharp pointy things, something rather unexpected happened. Jenny threw Naria towards the crowd and did what at the time was misinterpreted as a very sophisticated attempt at doing a double back-flip through a loop while whistling “Star Spangled Banner”. Yet what it actually meant was:

“So long, and thanks for all the flesh”

Then, and to the surprise of everyone involved, JennyHallu sprouted wings and flew away.

Legolas in Spandex: “I might be new at this but… since when do orcs have wings?”

Nogrod: “Well, as far as I know, they don’t”

JennyHallu: “What do you mean we don’t?”

Then, the brief glitch of altered reality was reversed and the wings vanished into thin air. And the air was rather thin as JennyHallu was flying high above the village. What happened next is so gruesome and gory, it will be replaced by some selected scenes of a teenager horror movie. Those movies are never unnecessarily gory and gruesome, right? :p

It suffices to say that after the fall, the villagers had one wereorc less to worry about. As a celebration, they all decided to throw their sombreros high up in the air. Yet because of an error of judgement of the current winds and the natural strength of the elves, the sombreros flew really high and when they landed a few villagers got some rather nasty bruises. They had thought of having a party all night long to celebrate, yet after the bruising they decided to lock themselves in and pray to Eru they survived the night.

Day 2 has ended, a wereorc has been lynched

There are still 2 wereorcs, 1 Ranger and 1 Shaman living.

Caranlondien: aspiring harpist
JennyHallu: Doomsday prophet
Nogrod: unemployed barber.
Grendelien: village whittler
Findëasëa: paleoelfropologist
Celuien:lampwright
Zali: stringer-of-bows
Diamond: Inept Jewel Smith
Dancing Spawn...: a merchant
Kitanna:The town's gate-keeper
Naria:The grower of magnificent flowers
Sleepy A barrel of apples
Legolas in spandex: Legolass (A movie-Legolas impersonator)
Roa_Aoife aspiring ballad writer

Now dead:
FaraelMod: He dyed… erm I mean died.
GlirdanRepentant werewolf : Choked on an apple. No wonder why werewolves are carnivores.
JennyHalluWereorc: Escaped the village, but could not escape the laws of physics.

A few notes:

Please, I don’t want to sound bitchy but I’d really like to ensure a fair and fun game for everyone who is involved. With regards to my comments today about Roa’s explanation, I appreciate the help, but she used Diamond, who is currently in the game, as an example. Even though she clearly said that it was not her vote, it could be read by others as some kind of hint at some point down the line. For reasons such as that is that I’m asking you let me address those questions. If you want to give me a heads-up, you are more than welcome to, just PM me.

Furthermore, as I can’t be certain that I’ll always be here in time to close off the talking, please unless I say otherwise, stop talking at 6 PM CT, 11 PM GMT. Again, this is to ensure a fair game for everyone.

Having said that, you all are doing grate and I love to see “my” village being so talkative. And such insightful newcomers!!! I’m proud of you all *beams with fatherly love, even though he is neither your father nor a father figure nor he had any actual influence on your werewolfing/orcing/etc style*

Remaining wereorcs you may PM each other and I need your nightly pick

Ranger and Shaman, I also need your picks, but no PMing you two :p

[Farael]

The villagers woke up the morning after lynching JennyHallu all but convinced that their ranger would have saved them again. They did a quick head-count and noticed there was someone missing this day.

Roa_aoife:”It must be Zali, she declared to be the ranger yesterday, the wereorcs would never let her live”

Azaelia of Willowbottom:”Yes, I’m orc meat already”

:”But… you are still here, dontcha’ see?”

[B]Azaelia: ”Hey, wait a minute… you are right, I am alive!!”

Nogrod: “Well, so am I, and so is Grendelien as I can see”

Diamond 18: “Guys….”

everyone at the same time: “WHAT?!”

Diamond: “Oh, if you are going to act like that I’m not telling you who is missing”

Findëasëa: “How do you know who the orcs killed last night? Are you a diamond by day and graphite by night?”

(Note of the writer, the chemical composition of diamonds and graphite (pencil lead) is very similar, yet one is a precious stone and the other is a black, cheap thing used to write with)

Diamond: “No, but if you look over there at Spawn’s house, you will notice that the windows are boarded and the door has been replaced by…. What IS that?”

SleepyRanger: “Call me crazy, but it looks like ropes tightly wound together”

The villagers approached Spawn’s house and soon realized the easiest way in would be to cut through the ropes at the door. The knots were tight and it was impossible for the villagers to undo them. Roa_aoife composed what she called an “un-knotting ballad” which was very successful… in enraging two dogs and a bird that was passing by, but made no headway into entering Spawn’s house. Finally, Kitanna[/B[ drew her gate-keeping sword and slashed through the rope. Her first lunge found some unexpected opposition but soon she buried her sword on to the hilt in those wretched ropes. Great would be her surprise when she drew the sword back to find it coated with blood. Desperately, she did her best to clear the ropes, only to find that [B]Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant had been tied to the ropes at the other side.

By her stood a neatly folded paper that said “She could talk her way into the innocent list, but she could not talk her way out of the spider’s net. Too bad she decided to dance rather than to learn how to be a better spider. Your friendly wereorcs.”

Day 3 has started, Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant was killed by the wereorcs over the night.

There are still 2 wereorcs, 1 Ranger and 1 Shaman living.

Caranlondien: aspiring harpist
JennyHallu: Doomsday prophet
Nogrod: unemployed barber.
Grendelien: village whittler
Findëasëa: paleoelfropologist
Celuien:lampwright
Zali: stringer-of-bows
Diamond: Inept Jewel Smith
Kitanna:The town's gate-keeper
Naria:The grower of magnificent flowers
Sleepy A barrel of apples
Legolas in spandex: Legolass (A movie-Legolas impersonator)
Roa_Aoife aspiring ballad writer

Now dead:
FaraelMod: He dyed… erm I mean died.
GlirdanRepentant werewolf : Choked on an apple. No wonder why werewolves are carnivores.
JennyHalluWereorc: Escaped the village, but could not escape the laws of physics.
Dancing Spawn...: Just a merchant: Trapped on a deathly spider’s web.

[Nogrod]

Well. That was nasty indeed. Even though I suspected Spawn, then now, learning of her innocence, I really feel bad. She would have been an asset to us.

But that’s what we will have to deal with. And btw. we have really played badly: our ranger has made one good pick, our seer another. The rest of us have been just babbling idiots, making no other deeds worth mentioning, but lynching one ordo. And we are having no clues about the rest of the orcs even at the third day! Bad! Very bad!

Before I go to these other last night things, I would just like to put forward this Jenny’s outburst of last night.

Jenny #219:
Hmm...seems everything is going to plan, then, Zali! Good luck to you two without me!
And subtlety was foiled: Jenny plays too well.
Why thank you! And to think I barely posted.

There are two orcs left. They all have more than one word to their name, and are sneaky sneaky. May they kill you all! And trust me, the transformation process is REALLY odd, though he likes the arms. The other one is less fond, but more used to the role.

No need for an orc to kill a dreamer, boys and girls, what are the odds he/she gets a dream again? Kill someone really threatening, like Spawn, Roa, Nogrod, or Diamond.

Hmm...have I said anything useful? Don't think so. Here, another thing for you to uselessly analyse:

++Grendelien, for the joyful friendship we've been developing.

Now this seems just lunatic-talk to begin with, but there maybe something we should take into account too.

The naive interpretation is, that Jenny is just mad and jumping around: hurt by her fellows to kill her. It is a possible interpretation – I have seen her jumping after a comfirmed lynch before (Roa at least will remember that). Then we should see to Zali, and others with names including more than one word: one male, one experienced wolf / orc to kill the next days.

But that’s not the truth, I think. The obvious interpretation would be, that she tries to make us believe, that Zali is a fellow-wolf (which she is not?), and that the quartet of Spawn, Roa, Nogrod & Diamond are the one’s to go after (who are innocents?). I was just wondering, whether we would be really having the luck of all these to be innocents! It would be a great asset! Well Spawn at least was shown innocent in the grimmest way possible...

But then there is the cunning interpretation, that would see that list as skilful distraction, eg. that one of the quartet (or two!) would be wolves, she is trying to save...

And how about this Grendelien stuff? Could it have something in it? It is so out-of- the-hat as could be... Or those later accusations for Naria? As someone, who has seen Jenny play before, I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of her slipping in some truth in her wailing - just to laugh us villagers not to see her points that she had laid bare in front of us... At least her point about orcs not needing to kill the dreamer makes plain sense, and her list of dangerous people do match my list of the best assets we could have (being innocent).

So it’s not an unbalanced post, more likely, it's a deliberate one. Let’s all see, whether we can wrought something out from it. Remember, only two of us will be orcs, the others are trustworthy. We shall have to be wiser today than yesterday, or the day before... (We'll have to "hunt some orc". :cool: )

[Sleepy Ranger]

A Brief Outlook On My Views Detailed Version Later

Caranlondien: Probably Innocent (*)
Nogrod: I trust him (**)
Grendelien: Shes innocent, Hallu told me (*)
Findëasëa: Not sure, probably innocent (**)
Celuien: Not sure (**)
Zali: Ranger
Diamond: Innocent
Kitanna: Possible Suspect (****)
Naria: Shes evil, Hallu told me (*****)
Sleepy Ranger: I like me
Legolas in spandex: >_> (*****)
Roa_Aoife: Probably Innocent (**)

I'd really like to hear more from Kitanna, shes a tricky one. For today I'd say we look at Kitanna and Naria. No, I'm not joking when I say I believe JennyHallu when she said that Naria is a wolf so don't be surprised if thats my reason for voting for her later in the day.

[Roa_Aoife]

Well, a lot seems to have happened since I left before. It seems these Orc's are either terribly unclever, or they just have very bad luck. So, Spawn really was innocent.

Remember, only two of us will be orcs, the others are trustworthy. We shall have to be wiser today than yesterday, or the day before...

Well, it's not Spawn....

Interesting that the orcs would kill her over Zali. Why not go for the gifted rather than the known innocent?

There's more interpretation than that, Nogrod. It's possible that Jenny didn't mention either of her fellow orcs, in hopes that we would focus away from them and onto these. I think a better question would be who isn't mentioned by her?

Then again, Jenny's clever. She may have counted on us not believing her, and so deliberately called her teammates for what they were.

Also, as a side note: please remember that we don't know Zali's role for certain. Right now all we have is her word that she's the protector. Since anyone can recieve dreams, it may be that she, as an orc, recieved the dream about Jenny, and bluffed as the protector. She would know who had been protected, too, because that's who she tried to kill before. It could have been a ploy to drive the true protector out into the open after being foiled so early. Which makes me wonder, if Zali is lying, should the true protector reveal themselves? Or should they keep quiet to foil more plans? I certainly wouldn't want to lose a gifted so easily.

Not only that, but we need to know why the wolves killed Spawn. Is it just because she's a good player, or because there's something more? I'm going back to look at her posts again.

[Nogrod]

Just to come back to the last minutes of yesterday-evening (gametime).

I think it's good to keep up the bafflement towards the orcs. Maybe we played well, maybe not. Maybe Zali was sincere, maybe she was playing a good game. Maybe Diamond and Sleepy were rushing out unthoughtfully, maybe they were getting the idea and played accordingly?

I suggest, that we will not discuss those things today. Let the orcs rot in their thinking, whether we pulled their legs or not!

EDIT: X-posted with Roa

[Roa_Aoife]

I suggest, that we will not discuss those things today. Let the orcs rot in their thinking, whether we pulled their legs or not!

I can see your point. Why agonize over the orcs plan when we can just play normally and analyze our fellow players looking for a lie?

The problem with this is that we need to look at the behavior of the known orc as well as the death so we can get a general direction to go in. Maybe the whole thing was a rather large mistake, and they want us to ignore it. I'm actually somewhat surprised you'd suggest that.

[Caranlondien]

My goodness, what an exciting scene took place while I was visiting my brother in the neighboring village! I know that we're left seemingly in utter confusion, but I take heart in our successes thus far.

I have to practice my harp (coughlinguisticshomeworkcough), but I shall return soon and scour Jenny's posts for clues...

[Celuien]

Interesting that the orcs would kill her over Zali. Why not go for the gifted rather than the known innocent?
Possibly because they thought Spawn was the Shaman. It makes sense - the Ranger and Orcs have the same goal - to find the Shaman. Since they both picked Spawn on night 1, the remaining Orcs could have taken Zali's pick as confirmation of their suspicions and decided to see if they had really been lucky enough to spot the more dangerous gifted.

That, by the way, is the reason I delibrately avoided bringing up any discussion of "who do you think the Ranger protected" yesterDAY.

If this scenario is true, then Spawn might have said something on day 1 that got the Orcs' attention, other than her generally being a smart player. I'll check to see if there was anything that might fit into this category.

Possibility two: We don't really know that Zali is the Ranger other than by her word. Assuming that she's telling the truth, the Orcs could have decided to take on a strategy of attacking Spawn, then trying to get us to lynch her as a gifted impersonator during the day. On this topic, I believe Zali's claim. Generally, I think gifted impersonation is a bad, bad move for an Orc by guaranteeing being outed as a werecreature eventually.

Other possibility: Zali is an Orc. Unlikely, I think, but posed above by Roa. IF this scenario is correct, I really think the true Ranger shouldn't come out yet. Enough said on this (by me, anyway).

And I'll answer Zali's question about my vote from yesterday. You and Roa were my most suspicious characters yesterday, and I distrusted you more than Roa. I really did need to leave then (and didn't get back until after time was called) so I was unable to wait for a response and voted. Sorry about that - I see that I was wrong now.

About JennyOrc - I don't think the business about the remaining Orcs all having more than one word should be taken too seriously. While she might have left a few truths in her post, I don't think this is one because it would make our job too easy. Only Sleepy Ranger, Legolas iS, and Roa_Aoife meet that description. Any real clues to her surviving colleagues' identities are probably more subtle, and probably from before she knew she was going to die.

[Nogrod]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

1. There's more interpretation than that, Nogrod. It's possible that Jenny didn't mention either of her fellow orcs, in hopes that we would focus away from them and onto these. I think a better question would be who isn't mentioned by her?

2. Then again, Jenny's clever. She may have counted on us not believing her, and so deliberately called her teammates for what they were.

3. Also, as a side note: please remember that we don't know Zali's role for certain. Right now all we have is her word that she's the protector. Since anyone can recieve dreams, it may be that she, as an orc, recieved the dream about Jenny, and bluffed as the protector. She would know who had been protected, too, because that's who she tried to kill before. It could have been a ploy to drive the true protector out into the open after being foiled so early. Which makes me wonder, if Zali is lying, should the true protector reveal themselves? Or should they keep quiet to foil more plans? I certainly wouldn't want to lose a gifted so easily.

Numbering mine...

1. You are right, that's a possibility, and not very far fetched either.

2. That's kind of what I was trying to say...

3. A good point. I have also written earlier, that having or revealing a dream is no quarantee of innocence, but this particular chance you bring up is noteworthy - maybe Zali's "confession" about the earlier night was a slip of tongue, and she told us the truth about a missed attack on Spawn? More to the point: trying to pose as a ranger could be a trial to drive the true ranger out.

But if you think that through, you will see more miracles: if Zali is a wolf, she could have mentioned Spawn just as a point to be affirmed the next night (maybe the real "save" was not Spawn? The ranger would not disagree about that openly - although the wolves might like her/him to do it). Her innocence quaranteed this way? But then there is the question, why didn't she protect her last night?

This brings me to the post by Roa, while I was writing this one:

Quote:
= Roa
The problem with this is that we need to look at the behavior of the known orc as well as the death so we can get a general direction to go in. Maybe the whole thing was a rather large mistake, and they want us to ignore it. I'm actually somewhat surprised you'd suggest that.


What do you mean by the thing I have bolded in your post? A mistake? I can't see a mistake here...

Think Roa, think!

EDIT: This one should be before Celuien's post: I made a mistaking quote/edit -stuff again... happily I had another window open, and could bring this back...

[Nogrod]

Quote:
Think Roa, think!

An elaboration to the last one:

If you (or anyone) are sure, or well groundedly suspicious, that Zali pulled our leg, then we should open this one immediately, and study all the possibilities. But if it is even somewhat believable, that Zali is innocent (which I'm at least inclined to believe for the time being), we should leave this to the orcs to chew. Why give them the answers, and help them to see, whether Zali played well or badly - and so, whether she is the ranger or not?

I'm all up to see Jenny's posts, and all that went on last night... And all the voting records of yesterday & stuff like that.

But the question about Zali's last thoughts, we should think ourselves in quiet, and if someone comes with believable argument concerning her guilt, let her/him come forward, and we try to solve it together. Otherwise - as I said - we just only work for the wolves.

[Roa_Aoife]

If you (or anyone) are sure, or well groundedly suspicious, that Zali pulled our leg, then we should open this one immediately, and study all the possibilities.

I'm afraid I can't give you that. I just didn't want everyone to just accept her as telling the truth. In RL WW games I've played, (yes, they exist) it's a rather infamous tactic, so the village is considered foolish if they accept the claim with out question.

IF this scenario is correct, I really think the true Ranger shouldn't come out yet. Enough said on this (by me, anyway).

Agreed. Why give the orcs a gift? So, let's move away from this whole issue. We shall see, soon enough.

Similarly, agonizing over Jenny's posts after her death was sealed may just keep us distracted and confused. I'll come back in 8-10 hours to look through her earlier posts.

EDIT: Cros posted with Nogrod's.... revived post?

[Roa_Aoife]

What do you mean by the thing I have bolded in your post? A mistake? I can't see a mistake here...

I have no idea really. I'm just tossing out possibilities. The point I've been trying to make this whole time is that we shouldn't be ignoring any possibilities.

Okay. Off to bed!

[Nogrod]

= Roa
I'm afraid I can't give you that. I just didn't want everyone to just accept her as telling the truth. In RL WW games I've played, (yes, they exist) it's a rather infamous tactic, so the village is considered foolish if they accept the claim with out question.

I'm not accepting her innocence either as a fact. Quite on the contrary! But if we have no better clues - and have a chance to confuse the orcs, let it be for a day, a morning...?

Similarly, agonizing over Jenny's posts after her death was sealed may just keep us distracted and confused.

With this I can't wholeheartedly agree, but I can see your point. I hope some people have time to go through them - I must get to bed as well, for the time is just... morning! Valar help me!

EDIT: Cros posted with Nogrod's.... revived post?

Yes you did - but not so much revived, but re-arranged - I managed to "edit" a post I meant to just "quote". Happily I have managed to bring the earlier post back...

EDIT: X-posted with Roa

[Diamond18]

Well this is just... weird. I was expecting Zali to be the Orc Meat last Night. I'm not sure whether or not this casts suspicion on her, though. In a way, it does look like Zali sacrificed her fellow Orc Jenny, for the sake of looking innocent, but maybe that's just what the Orcs were going for by killing Spawn instead.

I find it interesting that Zali did not reveal the role of the person she protected until I asked her. If she was an Orc, and making herself look like the innocent Ranger was part of her plan, she would have identified Spawn as the protected right away in order to set up a reason for Spawn to die in the Night, right? Unless she was laying out the bait and I bit it. I do find it interesting that she revealed Rangerness without really any prompting, and in the face of what seemed like a very advantageous situation. I pointed out that the Ranger could protect her during the night, and she right away owned up to being the Ranger. This could be a mistake or a calcuated move.

But I don't know. I really feel like Zali is innocent. I think the Orcs killed Spawn because A) just like killing Zali, they were ridding the village of a known innocent B) they wanted to kill her anyway C) this puts Zali in a slightly shady light.

So, until further notice, I'm going to keep on thinking of Zai as innocent. I personally think it a bit stupid on the Orcs' parts to leave the Ranger alive, for purposes of a rather weak bluff, but oh well.

As to player analysis (particularly of the mad hatter, Jenny) I'll follow up with some of that. I'm not sure about doing as complete an analysis as I did before, or just mentioning red flags for or against innocence. I'll see how tired I get. :rolleyes:

Despite this bit of Zali/Spawn confuddlement I'm still in rather high spirits about Jenny's demise. I mean, it's not every day my instincts prove good, so I could be lynched unanimously and still be happy. :D

Back with more.

X-posted with, er, well when I started this post we were still on page 6.

[Nogrod]

Well this is just... weird. I was expecting Zali to be the Orc Meat last Night.


I agree with most of the things you stated, but not this one. Maybe we all should start to see, that the dreamers are just like vessels - they are not shamans. There is no major reason for orcs to kill the dreamers: as Jenny rightfully noted in her fury, it's highly improbable, those people get another dream - and if I may add to this point of Jenny's - their innocence is known to orcs already (no news to them, and thence no special reason to kill), unlike to us, who are not able to see the innocence or guilt of a dreamer, even if she gives us an orc...

That's partly, why I have been worried about last night...

Off to bed now! Will be back, and try to do more than yesterday.

[Diamond18]

Maybe we all should start to see, that the dreamers are just like vessels - they are not shamans.

I know that. I never said otherwise. But Zali claimed/admitted to being the Ranger. This is paramount to saying, "Hey, I'm gifted and I can't protect myself, kill me."

Though, now that I think about it, if they really thought Spawn was the Shaman, they'd know that Zali could protect her again, and would go right for the source.

Of course, the joke is on them, since Spawn was not the Shaman. So now we have both the Shaman and the Ranger both living.

I am working on analyzing Spawn's posts now, looking at them with the slant that the Orcs found something there that screamed "Shaman" to them. I've got some theories which I hope are not total bunk.

[Celuien]

Okay, this may be a little confused because it's late for me and I really should have been asleep for about half and hour, but I had a few thoughts...

First: Jenny-O interactions from day 1 -

There's one thing that's making me sort of uneasy about Sleepy. If you look at posts #13 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=460501&postcount=13) and #47 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=460655&postcount=47), Jenny expresses joking suspicion of a few villagers, one of whom was Sleepy. Sleepy then votes supposedly randomly for Jenny in #48 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=460659&postcount=48) and says this: Solely for that comment, yes, I know that my vote choice (and reason) will be dis-liked by most people but I don't see JennyHallu being voted off so yeah...
It almost looks like wolves distancing themselves from one another with light suspicion and a safe throwaway vote tossed out as randomness.

So Sleepy moves to the top of my suspicion list based on day 1. I haven't thought too much about what he's done since then, other than to guess that if he's an orc, Naria is innocent since he went along with Jenny's accusation. Actually, that back and forth with Jenny at the end of yesterday looks fishy, but like I said, I haven't thought too much about it yet. I want to hear what this plan is that he hatched yesterday.

Two: What Spawn might have called on day 1 to look like she had a dream:

On day 1, Spawn suspected Roa the most and voted for her. If she was right, Orcs might have suspected a Roa dream and chosen to kill her before she could reveal. However, Spawn tends to be more subtle than that, so I'm not sure that a Spawn as a suspected Shaman would have been thought to have voted for her identified dream on the first day. Her other suspects from #34 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=460616&postcount=34) were Diamond18, Findëasëa, and Sleepy Ranger. So any of them could have been Orcs wanting to eliminate a Shaman who potentially spotted them. And would have had more cover than an Orc-Roa who would immediately have moved to the top of the suspect list, which makes one of those three a more likely Orc than Roa in my mind. Actually, it fits with my Sleepy Orcsie theory nicely. Especially since my suspicion of Diamond has waned significantly and I don't have much to make me suspect Findëasëa.

Okay. Off to bed. See you in a bit.