WWJ IX: Psychotic Penguins: The Crossing of Helcaraxë

[the phantom]

Okay, Mr. Known Innocent, what are you real thoughts on toDay? *puts pressure on tp's phantasmic shoulders*
What, are you seriously wanting me to be active today? I figured I'd just show up at the very end to vote. :p

All right, all right.... thoughts....

Jenn did her job- she made the village waste a lynch on her as opposed to getting killed by the WPs. Though I guess it's good she's gone, as now no one need wonder if someone is a sneaky Cobbler.

Do you think both WPs voted for her? Did they suspect she was the Cobbler and tried to keep her alive? Do you think the WPs saw a chance to lynch Jenn over Valier and took it knowing Valier would surely be a likely vote again today? Or do you think Valier is a WP and she was barely saved by the Cobbler?

Okay. I'm going to go back and find a few Boro quotes from day 1 and say what I think about them. In my opinion, that's about the best evidence we have- the words of a known WP. The question is, can we get inside Boro's head and figure out his reasoning, or will his layers of bluffing fool us completely?

Boro on...
1) Valier
Valier and Eonwe are acting too strange to be evil penguins.
Like I said before I doubt wp's would be this eccentric and wild in the beginning. So for now there's no reason to suspect Valier.
Is Boro betting on the defending-a-fellow-WP-is-too-obvious-to-be-believable approach, or is he trying to guarantee an innocent Valier's demise if he is discovered?

2) Eonwe
Valier and Eonwe are acting too strange to be evil penguins.
Eonwe Seems like she's having some Day 1 fun, but I hope that changes from our herald.
Not as obvious as Valier, but definitely pointing towards innocent, though the statement has a slightly negative ending, and Eonwe seems ignored compared to Valier. What does that mean?

3) Firefoot
Firefoot brought up useful comment on the cobbler, one which I completely forgot about, seeing as I have no remembrance of a cobbler for a very very long time now. So Firefoot I'm ok with for now, a very logical sensible person to have around.
Firefoot, if innocent can greatly benefit the village, if penguin would probably be our demise. But we shouldn't lynch a player like Firefoot on Day 1, unless she wants to tell us a little secret that only 2 other people know?
Firefoot, hasn't said a whole lot yet, seems to be more observant so far today. Perhaps that's just because there's really not too much out there. Again, like phantom, I like the advice from her so far, but it wouldn't surprise me if she was a wolf.
For some reason I am still uneasy with Boro's talk about Firefoot. If FF is innocent, kudos to Boro for triggering a false alarm in my head.

Boro is trying to put it into people's heads that Firefoot is someone you want to have around, and yet he feels the need to say that he'd be scared of her as a wolf and that he wouldn't be surprised if she was one. What do people think about that?

4) Naria
Naria I don't know at this point. Naria seems to be one of those silent contributors. Doesn't have to post a lot (unlike me) to have solid input and contribution to the village. I will be expecting to see more substance instead of just, hi I'm tired bye, but in this early going there's no reason to cry penguin.
Naria and Encaitare both haven't posted anything yet. Well Naria did, but I'm not counting that. So, I can't make a decision on them yet at all.
What, is Naria playing in this game? Could've fooled me. She's being very quiet and under the radar. She didn't do enough to get a good reaction from Boro.

5) Enca
Naria and Encaitare both haven't posted anything yet. Well Naria did, but I'm not counting that. So, I can't make a decision on them yet at all.
Same thing as Naria- Enca hasn't given me enough to be comfortable with her. I'd almost be willing to vote for either of them just to get rid of their silence. :p

(I say something like that every game, don't I)

6) Ang
Anguirel, I must say Spawns comments were very intriguing on Anguirel. At first it seemed to me like Anguirel was going off with what he had at the time, but good points have been raised against him. I'm going to hold off until he gets back.
Boro puts Ang on the most suspicious list, and clearly paints Spawn as the reason why. What is the purpose? If Ang is a WP, then Boro is trying to show his suspicion of him to make himself look good, while at the same time making a statement that shows he will not be voting for him. Or perhaps he is trying to make Spawn look like she is setting up an innocent Ang, which would speak to Spawn's innocence as well.

7) Spawn
Spawn backs up and says she was going to say something like the phantom, for everyone to just leave clues on who they feel is innocent. Seems a little fishy to me...trying to associate yourself with an innocent perhaps?
Most of them I already explained why they appear innocent before. Spawn for her input on Anguirel she seems innocent. I don't know yet what to make of Anguirel, but Spawn's input is beneficial, helpful, and usually I don't suspect the one's who announce stronger suspicions this early. For it's a bold move for a WP to stick their neck out and first really start the suspicions.
Is Boro's last statement meant to stick in our heads and lead us astray? He has Spawn firmly on his innocent list after finding her fishy early. Is he trying to bring an innocent to his side?

8) Diamond
I can't find much significance in Roa's, phantom's, or Diamond's, posts yet, so there's nothing for me to go off of.
And Diamond has just confused me so far. The cobbler business seemed awkward to me, I'm glad she came out and explained it more, but she's not done anything to make me feel like she's innocent like the "innocent looking" group.
So, do you see anything unusual there?

9) Roa
I can't find much significance in Roa's, phantom's, or Diamond's, posts yet, so there's nothing for me to go off of.
Roa there is a common misconception about theories, everyone seems to think it's just baseless and preposterous. Now a true theory is a hypothesis based UPON facts. So, the facts are sitting out there and then based on those facts you form a hypothesis which = theory. And for everybody except the wps and the Seer all we have to find the penguins are theories. Which means taking facts, like what people say, how they vote, who's killed...etc taking that knowledge and using it to present a hypothesis that is backed up by facts (aka a theory).
Roa has come in established a presence in the village, but really hasn't if you know what I mean. Also, as I remarked before I don't agree with the "don't throw around theories or baseless arguments," and what do I propose you want us to do to catch a penguin miss Guardian?
Roa's acts are strange but it actually in a wierd way makes her look more innocent to me. She's just being far too aggressive
He mostly argues with Roa, and places her on the most suspicious part of his list, and then later says she's innocent. Is that suspicious? Was Lalaith on the right track or not?

10) Mac
Macalaure is just catching onto the game, which means he's one of the most innocent looking ones to me so far. His lack of understanding and his objection to phantom's proposal speaks towards his innocence. There's no reason for penguins to attract that much attention to themselves early in the beginning. Seems like he's your ordinary innocent that is trying to help the village.
Is Boro trying to cover for his brand new WP buddy? Or is he maybe trying to gain a friend early by extending a hand of trust?

Oh, and I just thought I'd say that we shouldn't be too worried if we don't catch a WP today. Considering the population of the village the odds are against us. And really, we've gotten a WP and the Cob so far, so we've got to miss sooner or later.

Just so long as we don't stay off track for long.

[Diamond18]

While I don't trust Valier any more than the rest of you (excluding phantom), I would like to point out that Valier never has distinct reasons for finding someone suspicious, and always goes by gut instinct. Always. And she's frighteningly accurate with her gut instincts. So, if you're looking for something to condemn her with, that ain't gonna cut it.

The fallacy in this is that Valier's usual modus operandi provides the perfect cover for a WereValier. No matter what she does, or how randomly she accuses, she can always excuse herself by saying that's just her. So in the end it's not much of a defense, is it? I think I made allowances for her game style in my analysis, yet in this last post she looks on any suspicion of her with disdain, as if we should never suspect her of using her reputation to her own (evil) advantage. Valier's instincts are great, but they're only of use when we know her identity, because she could so easily lead us astray if we trusted her too much.

Anyway, I was just saying, Valier, you can't complain too loudly about us suspecting you. Thing is, you usually do understand our perspective (not being able to trust your good intentions on faith alone) a little better than this.

[Diamond18]

What, are you seriously wanting me to be active today? I figured I'd just show up at the very end to vote. :p

Who are you and what have you done with our phantom? :p


Do you think both WPs voted for her? Did they suspect she was the Cobbler and tried to keep her alive? Do you think the WPs saw a chance to lynch Jenn over Valier and took it knowing Valier would surely be a likely vote again today? Or do you think Valier is a WP and she was barely saved by the Cobbler?

I'm leaning toward the Valier-being-saved line of thought at the moment. I'm not sure about who I think the other WP is, yet.


1) Valier
Is Boro betting on the defending-a-fellow-WP-is-too-obvious-to-be-believable approach, or is he trying to guarantee an innocent Valier's demise if he is discovered?

Are you sure Boro was exactly thinking about his death, so much as trying to direct the village's thoughts? I mean, I'm sure he didn't plan to die soon, and he wouldn't have had Lal not revealed him.


2) Eonwe
Not as obvious as Valier, but definitely pointing towards innocent, though the statement has a slightly negative ending, and Eonwe seems ignored compared to Valier. What does that mean?

I think that Eonwe is generally viewed as less trustworthy than, say, Valier, by villages, and Boro could be playing off that.


3) Firefoot
Boro is trying to put it into people's heads that Firefoot is someone you want to have around, and yet he feels the need to say that he'd be scared of her as a wolf and that he wouldn't be surprised if she was one. What do people think about that?

Worrisome. I want to analyze Firefoot but haven't gotten to it yet.


4) Naria
What, is Naria playing in this game? Could've fooled me. She's being very quiet and under the radar. She didn't do enough to get a good reaction from Boro.

The story of Naria's ww-life, methinks.


5) Enca
Same thing as Naria- Enca hasn't given me enough to be comfortable with her. I'd almost be willing to vote for either of them just to get rid of their silence. :p

(I say something like that every game, don't I)

I'm floundering and filp-flopping over Enca in my mind. Just don't know her style. Have you played with her?


6) Ang
Boro puts Ang on the most suspicious list, and clearly paints Spawn as the reason why. What is the purpose? If Ang is a WP, then Boro is trying to show his suspicion of him to make himself look good, while at the same time making a statement that shows he will not be voting for him. Or perhaps he is trying to make Spawn look like she is setting up an innocent Ang, which would speak to Spawn's innocence as well.

I am quite suspicious of Spawn at the moment and suspect this to be a Boro/Spawn concerted effort against Ang. But I could be wrong.


7) Spawn
Is Boro's last statement meant to stick in our heads and lead us astray? He has Spawn firmly on his innocent list after finding her fishy early. Is he trying to bring an innocent to his side?

He did do something like that with Kuru in WWX, which gives me pause in my Spawn suspecting.


8) Diamond
So, do you see anything unusual there?

What? That's all I get?


9) Roa
He mostly argues with Roa, and places her on the most suspicious part of his list, and then later says she's innocent. Is that suspicious? Was Lalaith on the right track or not?

Yeah, uh, that's a bit weird. I'd forgot about the innocent statement. I suppose I should do a Roa analysis, because I haven't done her yet. Has anyone? (Enca did a slight one, but I don't think anyone's done an exhaustive yet. Not sure.)


10) Mac
Is Boro trying to cover for his brand new WP buddy? Or is he maybe trying to gain a friend early by extending a hand of trust?

I feel like Mac is innocent, so I think this may be friend-gaining tactic.... I think.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I'm still catching up with Day 2, but considering that it's past 3 am, I doubt I manage to post anything sensible before I fall asleep on my keyboard. Just wanted to say to those who out of courtesy refrained from accusing me yesterDay that feel free to go after me as much as you please now since I'm back. ;)

[Roa_Aoife]

OKay, sorry this took so long; I kept getting side tracked.

Dimwe Diamond

Day 1 Summary

1st post - vote for Eomer, retraction for Eomer, in-character nonsense

2nd - nonsense response to Valier's nonsense statement, doesn't understand the discussion about the cobbler, will be glad if the cobbler goes down, the now infamous "seer revealing the cobbler" plan

3rd - Finds discussion boring, wants to hear some crazy theories, doesn't see much point in early analysis, response to Boromir about vote for Eomer, explains that she didn't want to the seer to come forward just for the cobbler.

4th - points out that phantom almost always uses arrows

5th - gut feelings on people, thinks she may be way off

Valier - normal
Herself - penguin
Naria - worrisome
Mac - innocent
Lal - not sure
Firefoot - innocent
Jenny - innocent
Roa - where'd she go?
phantom - okay
Boromir - innocent
Spawn - innocent
Kitanna - not acting evil
Enca - nothing, never played with before
Ang - okay
Eonwe - shady

6th - response to Lal, restates that she has niggling feelings about Lal, Roa, Eonwe, Naria, Enca, valier

7th - long statement about her opinion on summaries and analysis, prefers to wait until there are some deaths so that there are knowns before analyzing, also prefers to just link posts rather than make people slog through what they've already read, says she won't tell others not to post summaries, thinks the bickering is making everyone involved look a bit foul, worries that the wolves may be hiding better because of it

8th - isn't confident about voting, Votes Lal, says some of statements about other players don't sit well


Day 1 analysis

Concerning her seer-cobbler idea, it didn't seem at all odd to me. When I read it, I simply thought that she meant if the seer knew who the cobbler was at the time she came forward, then we could simply ignore that person for the remainder of the game, rather than waste a lynch. What bothers me is how she addressed the concerns about it. She said that all she meant was that when the seer came forward with some penguins, if the seer also knew who the cobbler was, she could point that out, too. This is a wholly obvious statement- the very kind she was putting down when she stated she was bored by the discussion. Strange bit of hypocrisy...

I also find her statement about not likeing to analyze things before some deaths not very Diamond like at all. She knows perfectly well that this has caught a wolf on Day 1, with out seer reveals. I don't know, but it seems the usual Diamond spark is missing.

And then there was her lists- she told Lal that she had bad feelings about her, myself, Eonwe, Naria, Enca, valier. However, her previous post showed that she didn't know anything about Enca, who had yet to post. How could she be worried about someone who had yet to show? It can't be past experience, because Diamond said that she had never played with Enca before.

There was also the rather bold statement of declaring herself a penguin.

Day 2 summary

1st post - Tells Lal that if she was the one dreamed that it's okay to reveal, but advises her to keep silent unless the person was going to get lynched, advises her to be silent about the hunter, says she can now see the strategy Lal was trying to employ, remarks about Arthur Dent, says she's going to go back through Boromir's posts

2nd - response to Mac, says Mac just seemed too overt in posting to be guilty, says it's too easy for newbies to sail along quietly and not rock the boat, claiming newbieness, and Mac didn't do that, which makes him look innocent, response about cobbler, rule posting

3rd - banter with Lal

4th - Points out that she's only seen Boromir as a seer, which makes understanding his wolfish posts somewhat difficult, thinks that she may dig through the grimoire to see what she can find, decides to wait for phantom

5th - wants to know if anyone posted pms at the end of TiG X

6th - analysis of Boromir's behavior in TiG X, notes that he never put phantom or Lalaith in his most suspicicious list, says that it is quite likely that Boromir put one wolf in his Not suspicious group, and one in his somewhat suspicious group, inclined to think Ang and Roa innocent for the time being, points out the flaw that Boromir might be playing differently

7th - response to Lal about Boromir's behavior, notes that he may use the same mentality that helped him win previously, or try something new that phantom and Lal wouldn't recognizee, points out that the people Boromir's habits point to have also made suspicious votes, says she will likely vote for Valier, Jenny, Spawn, or Eonwe, gives reasons for looking at all but Valier, thinks Ang looks rather gennuine in his attack on her

8th - Valier analysis http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473749&postcount=185

Over all finds her slippery.

9th - Spawn analysis http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473756&postcount=190

Finds Spawn to be rather odd, but wants to lay off her since she'll be gone all day

10th - Eonwe Analysis http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473760&postcount=194

Eonwe is evil and must die. Hopes mod fire will destroy him.

11th - Explains shoemaker to Mac

12th - Jenny analysis http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473781&postcount=212

Either a preoccupied ordo or the cobbler

13th - Agrees with Roa about Jenny, still believes Jenny to be cobbler, says she will try to get Eonwe lynched tomorrow if he votes just to stay alive, finds Spawn the most penguinesque, but doesn't want to vote for her because of absense, remark about music choices

14th - Sympathizes with Ang, thanks roa for vote count

15th - Votes Valier

16th - Agrees with Ang that she is mildly suspicious

Day 2 analysis

She never gave a real reason for going after Valier, excep that she was on Boromir's likely innocent list.

Also, she repeated that she had never played with Boromir and so didn't know his style, and she also noted the same with Enca. The Diamond I know has never let a lack of knowledge about a player stop her from analyzing and making assumptions about them.

Again, she agrees with Ang that she's suspicious, a rather bold move akin to her first day assertion that she's a penguin. So, she's not confident enough to know who to vote for, but she is confident enough to make that kind of statement?

[Roa_Aoife]

One other thing I've noticed about Diamond that's odd- her willingness, almost eagerness, to go along with whatever phantom says. Compare this to Deuling Wizards, where an innocent Diamond argued against the revealed Good Wizard's ideas of supplying suspects. For someone who is usually an independant firebrand, she's been rather... yeilding this game. A Diamond who goes along with others is a Diamond that just doesn't exist on the side of good.

[Encaitare]

in Encai's post 159, she completely hi-lighted Ang and Roa as being on Boro's probably guilty list - taking attention away from the other two lists and in effect her.

Because I felt that Boromir might have been bold enough to have put a fellow wolf on that list. That was the purpose of that post.

Also, she voted for Jenny when the vote was tied at 4-4, assuring that it would be Jenny to be lynched because even if Lalaith voted for Valier (as she did), Jenny would still be lynched because we knew Spawn would not be voting. (Again, this only works if Valier is a wolf...)

I said I was going to vote for Jenny earlier that Day, and then I did. Wouldn't it have been even more suspicious if I'd changed my mind at a crucial point in the voting, rather than keeping my word?

I'll be back in several hours, hopefully to do something more useful than defending myself. Self-defense in the game of Werewolf does tend to be rather futile.

[Valier]

Ok Ok now I am not pooh-poohing anyone for suspecting me at all!! I was only saying I find it amusing, all the stuff people come up with. As for me putting Firefoot on my list, I do this because I find her post about me to be just plain off and the whole thing is based on if I am a WP. Oh and Eonwe...He's always on my list and this time he has been extra weird in saying he won't be around until he feels like it. I don't really care if others want to vote for me, that's fine. But you will all see when I am gone that once again I am an Ordo. I know it is hard to take someone on their word so I won't say anything about this again. If I must die, so you guys may see, so be it, but heed what I have said.

[Roa_Aoife]

Jenn did her job- she made the village waste a lynch on her as opposed to getting killed by the WPs. Though I guess it's good she's gone, as now no one need wonder if someone is a sneaky Cobbler.

Say what you wantm it's one less thing to worry about. At least it was a suicidal cobbler and not a misleading cobbler.

Do you think both WPs voted for her? Did they suspect she was the Cobbler and tried to keep her alive? Do you think the WPs saw a chance to lynch Jenn over Valier and took it knowing Valier would surely be a likely vote again today? Or do you think Valier is a WP and she was barely saved by the Cobbler?

Well, after Jenny was revealed as the cobbler, I went back and looked at her posts to see if she had tried to hint her status, or if she was trying to protect someone in the same manner she tried to protect Boromir. I smacked myself in the head when I found it.

And as I can see it, a bomb and a...a...nothing do not point to penguins. Those cute little birds couldn't possibly have made a bomb. I don't know anything about pyrotechnics, but I'm sure it requires opposable thumbs, or fingers, or something.
Those poor pretty penguins...I just never expected they might be evil! My dear Phantom (which phantom were you, again?), your extensive knowledge of them frightens me, for I know little about anything.

It's obscure- I didn't even pick up on it till I read the narration of her death, and then I remembered her saying this. It's possible however, that the penguins did pick up on it, especially with behavior towards Boromir, whom she likely suspected to be a penguin.

Boro on...
1) Valier
Is Boro betting on the defending-a-fellow-WP-is-too-obvious-to-be-believable approach, or is he trying to guarantee an innocent Valier's demise if he is discovered?

Even if Boromir wasn't planning to die, such a connection is incredibly obvious. He had to be aware of the possibility of his death, and know that this owuld be looked at later. It seems like an attempt to point a big finger at Valier. From this alone, I would say no.

2) Eonwe
Not as obvious as Valier, but definitely pointing towards innocent, though the statement has a slightly negative ending, and Eonwe seems ignored compared to Valier. What does that mean?

From the quotes alone, it appears he's just coming up with something to say about Eonwe. He was going along with the general consensus that Eonwe was quiet and needed to be around more.

3) Firefoot
For some reason I am still uneasy with Boro's talk about Firefoot. If FF is innocent, kudos to Boro for triggering a false alarm in my head.

Boro is trying to put it into people's heads that Firefoot is someone you want to have around, and yet he feels the need to say that he'd be scared of her as a wolf and that he wouldn't be surprised if she was one. What do people think about that?

This does worry me. He's pointing people away from her, but at the same time distancing himself. It's very... convenient.

4) Naria
What, is Naria playing in this game? Could've fooled me. She's being very quiet and under the radar. She didn't do enough to get a good reaction from Boro.

From his statements alone, he's pointing people away from her. Naria is a werewolf ninja, though, and Boromir is echoing most others' thoughts on this.

5) Enca
Same thing as Naria- Enca hasn't given me enough to be comfortable with her. I'd almost be willing to vote for either of them just to get rid of their silence. :p

(I say something like that every game, don't I)

Boromir mentioned Enca without saying anything about her. On the other hand, there wasn't anything to say about her.

6) Ang
Boro puts Ang on the most suspicious list, and clearly paints Spawn as the reason why. What is the purpose? If Ang is a WP, then Boro is trying to show his suspicion of him to make himself look good, while at the same time making a statement that shows he will not be voting for him. Or perhaps he is trying to make Spawn look like she is setting up an innocent Ang, which would speak to Spawn's innocence as well.

It seems more like Boromir was jumping onto a good looking case.

7) Spawn
Is Boro's last statement meant to stick in our heads and lead us astray? He has Spawn firmly on his innocent list after finding her fishy early. Is he trying to bring an innocent to his side?

I think he was looking for people to suspect (always a problem as a wolf) and then backed off because he was leaching off her case against Ang.

8) Diamond
So, do you see anything unusual there?

Stating confusion with a certain player- I've done it to innocents as a wolf, I don't see why he wouldn't either. At the same time, he may just be attempting to distance himself.

9) Roa
He mostly argues with Roa, and places her on the most suspicious part of his list, and then later says she's innocent. Is that suspicious? Was Lalaith on the right track or not?

First he doesn't see any significance in my one post, then he uses that same post as a reason for putting me on his most suspected list, then he backs off and says I'm just a misguided innocent. And Ang and Jenny said, "Really, Roa, there's no contradiction at all...." GRRRR! I TOLD YOU SO!

Again, he needed people to be suspicious of. I was an easy target since I was absent. Then, I showed up, called him on it, and he says that maybe I'm just a misguided innocent. Which is funny, because that's the exact same thing I said about Valier when she had me pegged as the EW, and I was afraid her over-reaction would get her lynched and then make people take her seriously.

And Lal was right about one thing- I am devilishly brilliant, and I can pull off looking helpful when guilty. I like to think that I'm helpful when innocent, too, though. I did spot a wolf and a cobbler, after all.

10) Mac
Is Boro trying to cover for his brand new WP buddy? Or is he maybe trying to gain a friend early by extending a hand of trust?

I suspect the ol' "Get the newbie on your side" trick. The idea behind this trick being that the newbie will be grateful that someone in the game believes them, so they don't feel so lost. Mac seems a bit too clever for that though.

Oh, and I just thought I'd say that we shouldn't be too worried if we don't catch a WP today. Considering the population of the village the odds are against us. And really, we've gotten a WP and the Cob so far, so we've got to miss sooner or later.

Just so long as we don't stay off track for long.

Such an optimist.... :rolleyes:

[Roa_Aoife]

okay, I'm going to do my Naria analysis now. As she only has five posts, this shouldn't take too long. Though, As a warning to Eonwe- if he doesn't honestly contribute today I'm voting for him. His statement about not having enough to work with is hogwash. There's plenty to work with. Almost too much. Yesterday he voted mainly to save himself. If he can't shape up, well, I'm not putting up with it.

[Diamond18]

Firefoot

#13 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473133&postcount=13)

Incharacter, followed by discussion of the Cobbler (doesn't think it'll be a problem till later so doesn't worry about it now) followed by joking accusations of Roa and tp. The one thing I notice is that Jenny was also an advocate of not being concerned with the Cobbler. However, Firefoot's points about it are valid, here.

#29 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473235&postcount=29)

Clarification on a question about the Cobbler.

#37 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473270&postcount=37)

Comments on the oddity of people doing analysis already, but doesn't find it necessarily suspicious. Teases tp.

#56 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473305&postcount=56)

She replies to someone about Spawn, and there's another anon. quote she agrees with.

#71 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473345&postcount=71)

Says Jenny, Mac, and Diamond all feel innocent and votes for Lalaith, saying she just isn't sitting right.

#168 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473679&postcount=168)

Says she's tired, makes a few comments, agrees with something tp said about Valier, and finds Ang's vote suspicious but isn't convinced he's guilty.

#209 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473778&postcount=209)

Says she's not any less tired, isn't concerned about dying, and votes Valier, saying it's not random but giving no further reason.

#244 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473953&postcount=244)

Builds a case against Enca and Val as the two remaining penguins, being more certain about Enca. Lists Naria, Eonwe, and Spawn as "in betweens" and Mac, Ang, & Diamond as likely innocent.

#248 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473958&postcount=248)

Agrees with my post about Valier's defensiveness.


Conclusion:

Overall her posting has been a lot sparser than usual, and most of her posts don't say much. Her most substantial post is #244. I don't feel comfortable with this, but if it is due large in part to RL, I'd like to hold off seriously suspecting her. The worst looking things right now are her vote for Lal and Boro's opinions on her.

[Roa_Aoife]

The major flaw in Firefoot's attack on Valier is this- her whole case is based on the assumption the Valier is a penguin. There isn't a single piece of solid, unbiased evidence in it. It's all speculation, which is no case at all. Phantom's case against Valier had facts in it; Diamond's case against Vailer had facts in it. Firefoot's case is sorely lacking these, and that is something I know she isn't known for doing when innocent.

And, really, attacking Valier because she used her gut is like attacking anyone for playing the same way they usually do. Sure it could be a great cover, but that doesn't mean it is.

[Valier]

Roa that is exactly the reason I put Firefoot on my list of suspects today! I could not quite find the words to express what I meant, but you did it beautifully.

[Valier]

Now, her changing her mind suddenly about someone is something worth mentioning, since I've never known her to give up a pursuit once she's after someone


May I ask when did I change my mind? All I did was add a few more candidates to my suspect list.

[Roa_Aoife]

Naria

1st post - Isn't going to be around for the next 11 hours

2nd post - Says she just had enough time to read through, thinks Lal stood out, votes Lal

3rd post - Retracts to Boromir, apologizes

4th post - looking grim, wonders why Kitanna revealed herself

5th post - Apologizes for absence, says the cases against Jenny make her look quite evil, and her pop up vote for Mac is unnerving, and her style is similar to what she's done as a wolf, Votes Jenny

Her vote for Lal is rather sinnister, and it's possible she may have been bandwagoning. However, I don't doubt that she cross posted with Lal's reveal. She's far too intelligent to vote for a revealed seer. Her vote for Jenny semms equally bandwagony, though.

And... that's all I got.

[Roa_Aoife]

May I ask when did I change my mind? All I did was add a few more candidates to my suspect list.

I don't know. Firefoot said you thought she was innocent, and then suddenly thought she was guilty, though she didn't provide any quotes or posts in which this happened. But let's not let little things like facts get in our way.

[Firefoot]

Can I quote myself?As for Valier, she started out in her first couple posts saying that Boro was one of the "definitely guilty ones", but he soon faded out of sight. She then started attacking Ang pretty fiercely (who I'm thinking is innocent), and Naria keeps reappearing in her posts as well. Then you have her possibly evasive vote for Ang when the voting seemed fairly set to go for Lalaith while Boromir's down a couple votes. I did come up with reasoning for Valier. Perhaps I should have put this first. And maybe she really is just playing the way she normally does. But usually I'm one of the ones who argues "that's just the way she plays" and it doesn't bother me. But this time she is bothering me.

Diamond: The major flaw in Firefoot's attack on Valier is this- her whole case is based on the assumption the Valier is a penguin. There isn't a single piece of solid, unbiased evidence in it. It's all speculation, which is no case at all. Phantom's case against Valier had facts in it; Diamond's case against Vailer had facts in it. Firefoot's case is sorely lacking these, and that is something I know she isn't known for doing when innocent. A lot of it did include Valier, I will agree to this. But saying none of it is unbiased is not fair. Probably the biggest problem with my post is it is organized incorrectly. Valier was the one I started suspecting first, and I used that in looking for other wolves. You can do that when there are more than one. :rolleyes: But when I combined that with other bits that I had, it made sense to me. Overall her posting has been a lot sparser than usual, and most of her posts don't say much. My Day 1 posts almost never say much substantial. Day 2, I had RL issues. So lynch me. Day 3, now I'm here.

[Firefoot]

May I ask when did I change my mind? All I did was add a few more candidates to my suspect list. When did I say you changed your mind? I don't see you providing quotes or post numbers, either, Roa. Although, now that I think about it, you did about Boromir. You suspected him at the start, and then didn't say anything more about him. Firefoot said you thought she was innocent, and then suddenly thought she was guilty, though she didn't provide any quotes or posts in which this happened. But let's not let little things like facts get in our way. It's like post 68 or 58 or something. On page 2.

[Firefoot]

My comments in 258 were meant to be read in conjunction with Diamond's post immediately preceding, although you all seem intent on reading it as stand alone, which does rather change the reading of it.

[Roa_Aoife]

As for Valier, she started out in her first couple posts saying that Boro was one of the "definitely guilty ones", but he soon faded out of sight.

I assume you mean this (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473123&postcount=11) post? You do realize that, as the 11th post of the day, was utter nonsense, not to be taken seriously? If you mean something else, provide a link, a post, a quote. I'm not seeing what you're seeing. Show me where you're finding this.

And that first quote attrubuted to Diamond is me.

Edit: cross posted

[Roa_Aoife]

When did I say you changed your mind? I don't see you providing quotes or post numbers, either, Roa. Although, now that I think about it, you did about Boromir. You suspected him at the start, and then didn't say anything more about him.

That quote is Valier's. You must have us confused now, because I remained quite dogged in pursuit of Boromir. Go back and read it. And you said it here:

So, Valier, all of a sudden I'm suspicious because I suspect you? Seriously, to this point the only place you've even mentioned me is once as being innocent... As for Ang and Naria, the only reason I've really found for your suspecting them is because they *could be* crafty players as wolves. Ang seems to be a complete gut instinct. And I don't remember you mentioning Eonwe before at all.

That is saying that she changed her mind. I mentioned that looking at Valier for using her gut was somewhat silly, but that noting a change of mind wasn't. Valier was resonding to me. Be more careful in your readings. Your sporatic and flawfilled defence is not helping your case.

It's like post 68 or 58 or something. On page 2.

Don't be lazy, go get it.

[Firefoot]

That quote is Valier's. You must have us confused now, because I remained quite dogged in pursuit of Boromir. Go back and read it. I know it's Valier's. I was responding to that. It was just that one comment that I was responding to you, which is why I addressed that sentence to you. The rest was to Valier.

And I'll be lazy if I darned well want to be. It's post 68. Just for that you can go look at it yourself.

[Roa_Aoife]

Valier was the one I started suspecting first, and I used that in looking for other wolves. You can do that when there are more than one.

Why?

My comments in 258 were meant to be read in conjunction with Diamond's post immediately preceding, although you all seem intent on reading it as stand alone, which does rather change the reading of it.

Is there a reason I should automatically assume that you weren't speaking for yourself? You stated your opinion as your own, and trying to bunny off of what Diamond was saying, or link yourself to her for the sake of looking less suspicious doesn't make you look better.

Edit: Cross posted- I'm not going to make your case for you.

[Diamond18]

My Day 1 posts almost never say much substantial. Day 2, I had RL issues. So lynch me. Day 3, now I'm here.

I said:

I don't feel comfortable with this, but if it is due large in part to RL, I'd like to hold off seriously suspecting her.

[Firefoot]

How about the title "What Diamond said"? :rolleyes: Why? I've already explained this, and I even quoted myself.

[Roa_Aoife]

Just because you agreed with her doesn't mean I shouldn't take your comment for it's own value. It's too easy to hide by just agreeing with other people. I looked at your comment for what it was. And it's not 258- that's Valier again.

[Firefoot]

Sorry, 248.

And, yes, take it for it's own value, but look at the meaning behind it as well, please. :rolleyes:

[Roa_Aoife]

I've already explained this, and I even quoted myself.

No, you gave some loose reasons with out any actual evidence to back them.

[Roa_Aoife]

And, yes, take it for it's own value, but look at the meaning behind it as well, please.

Enlighten me. What was that?

[Firefoot]

Enlighten me. What was that? I already said this too! That it was meant to be read in conjunction with Diamond's post.

I'm not even going to respond to you anymore, because you're not listening to me anyways. If you want to see me as a penguin, there's nothing I can do to stop that.

[Diamond18]

This spat between you two is making my head spin. I'm really not sure what to make of it.

[Roa_Aoife]

That's not a meaning. That's an attempt to dodge the issue. The only meaning in that post was to say that Valier changed her mind on a bunch of people. No posts, or quotes, or actual evidences were given, and you didn't even know where they were anyways! You had to go look it up! And you want me to believe that real point of that was to add to what Diamond was saying? Fine, then that's the real point, you wanted to add feul to Diamond's fire. But that doesn't change the fact the what you said doesn't hold water.

Edit: signing off for the night back... I don't know when, but hopefully pre-deadline

[Firefoot]

I know I said I wasn't going to respond anymore, but...That's not a meaning. That's an attempt to dodge the issue. That's why I said "meaning behind the post" and not "meaning of the post". Maybe meaning was a bad word.

The amazing thing is that I still think Roa is probably innocent. In fact, I am becoming increasingly convinced of this. I've seen too many spats like this one between innocents to think otherwise.

I need to sit back and look at the wider picture again.

I've gone back and looked at Boromir's innocent list (on which I still think there is probably a penguin), and of Macalaure Eonwe, Spawn, and Valier, I think that Macalaure is the most likely to be innocent, for reasons others and I have already stated. Next is Spawn. What few posts she has made have felt extremely innocent to me, and she made some good points in her posts. Although, her suspicions of Ang really catch my eye, probably because both the people I have really suspected so far (Encai and Valier) and Boromir have all suspected Ang (or in Encai's case, more tried to bring attention to him). I'd like to hear more from her. Eonwe puzzles me. I couldn't get anything clear from his very few posts. I think it's safe to say that both he and Valier are not wolves. Valier, I still think is suspicious. Right now, she is definitely one of my prospects for voting.

In his second list, Diamond still feels innocent to me, leaving Encai and Naria. I went back and looked at Naria again, and she really hasn't said much at all. I have no idea about her - I find it odd that Valier keeps coming back and mentioning her. Gut feeling is one thing, but Naria has posted all of five times, and said not much at all. I really would like to know where this comes from. It makes me wonder if maybe it's a Valier-Naria alliance rather than Valier-Encai as I was thinking before.

I see my vote going to Valier, Encai, Naria, or Eonwe. Maybe Spawn if something comes up. I think that there is definitely at least one wolf in this bunch; maybe even two.

[Diamond18]

All quotes are from Roa's analysis of the moi.

Concerning her seer-cobbler idea, it didn't seem at all odd to me. When I read it, I simply thought that she meant if the seer knew who the cobbler was at the time she came forward, then we could simply ignore that person for the remainder of the game, rather than waste a lynch.

Exactly.


What bothers me is how she addressed the concerns about it. She said that all she meant was that when the seer came forward with some penguins, if the seer also knew who the cobbler was, she could point that out, too. This is a wholly obvious statement- the very kind she was putting down when she stated she was bored by the discussion. Strange bit of hypocrisy...

I didn't want to have to go to all that explaining myself, but at least three people (Lalaith, Boromir, and Jenny) brought it up and I wasn't going to just sit around letting people make it look like I wanted the Seer to come out and seal her death just for the sake of outing a little ol' Cobbler. You're right, it was obvious, but 'twasn't me who cast nefarious aspirations on my original statement.


I also find her statement about not likeing to analyze things before some deaths not very Diamond like at all. She knows perfectly well that this has caught a wolf on Day 1, with out seer reveals. I don't know, but it seems the usual Diamond spark is missing.

I don't think I've ever written player analysis on Day 1 before.... I'm always a bit shocked when we catch a wolf on Day 1 without the help of a seer reveal, actually. I've always viewed Day 1 wolf lynchings as rather a bit fortuitous.


And then there was her lists- she told Lal that she had bad feelings about her, myself, Eonwe, Naria, Enca, valier. However, her previous post showed that she didn't know anything about Enca, who had yet to post. How could she be worried about someone who had yet to show? It can't be past experience, because Diamond said that she had never played with Enca before.

Absence is, all by itself, worrisome. So says a known loudmouth. Still, my feelings on some of those people listed was just "niggling" rather than outrightly "bad."


There was also the rather bold statement of declaring herself a penguin.

:D


Again, she agrees with Ang that she's suspicious, a rather bold move akin to her first day assertion that she's a penguin. So, she's not confident enough to know who to vote for, but she is confident enough to make that kind of statement?

Well, I know what I am, so of course I'm confident. My vote for Valier was because I found her slippery enough to be a more likely penguin than the overtly crazed Jenny, and they were the top vote getters. My firmest suspicion lay with the absent Spawn, and a vote for her wouldn't have mattered. I didn't like seeing Jenny suceed so roundly in her suicide, so I didn't want to make a throwaway vote.

All that said, despite me finding Valier's initial post toDay to be overly defensive, her response to me seemed more.... Valier-like. I think I may follow through on my threat to Eonwe or make a vote for Spawn, toDay. There's Enca as well, though I'm not as confident as Firefoot and Lal that she's necessarily bad. Firefoot herself seems oddly snappish. I also want to analyze you, for thouroughness, but I'm procrastinating on that.


One other thing I've noticed about Diamond that's odd- her willingness, almost eagerness, to go along with whatever phantom says.

Yeah, you got me. I'm secretly a phantom fangirl. Oh, I try to hide it, you know... arguing with tp in Survivor, posting lurid dreams involving Aimé... all just to throw you off the track.

Or maybe it's just nice to have a known innocent around whose every word I don't have to worry about.


Compare this to Deuling Wizards, where an innocent Diamond argued against the revealed Good Wizard's ideas of supplying suspects.

I don't see tp compiling a list of doom and implying that I'm evil if I don't obey him.... Are you planning on doing such a thing, tp? If you are, I'm afraid it'll be no more Miss Nice Dimwë.


For someone who is usually an independant firebrand, she's been rather... yeilding this game. A Diamond who goes along with others is a Diamond that just doesn't exist on the side of good.

So, I'm definitely a werepenguin, then?

X-posted with the ineFfenble one.

[Encaitare]

Well, that little "spat," as Diamond put it, was rather interesting to read. See what I mean about self-defense being pretty futile?

I'm now checking out everyone's Werewolf history in the grimoire to look for patterns in accordance with different roles. Expect this in the near future.

[the phantom]

I'm floundering and filp-flopping over Enca in my mind. Just don't know her style. Have you played with her?
She was a Wolf in WW XII, Erbar Telamarth. I can't remember who modded it and all, but I seem to remember it was an amazing game.
Yeah, you got me. I'm secretly a phantom fangirl.
It's not such a secret, hon, what with all of those pms you're always sending me late at night asking me what I'm wearing. :p
I don't see tp compiling a list of doom and implying that I'm evil if I don't obey him.... Are you planning on doing such a thing, tp? If you are, I'm afraid it'll be no more Miss Nice Dimwë.
Well, then I guess you're not going to like this. I've made a list of doom.

1) Diamond

And if you don't vote for someone on the list, you get lynched!

I've gotta go now. I'll be back tomorrow about four hours before the deadline, and I think I'll be able to stick around for the rest of the day.

Can we PLEASE hear from EVERYONE today. A LOT!

I want EVERYONE to lay out their suspicions of EVERYONE nice and clear. I can't stand having people hanging about the village whose positions are largely ambiguous. This way, if you're an innocent and you die then the village can look at your analysis knowing that you had no bad intentions, and if you're a Penguin and you die then the village can try and figure out who your partner in crime is.

If I haven't seen much of anything from a couple of you in particular by the end of the Day I'm probably going to vote for you, and others will probably do the same.

[Diamond18]

Roa_Aoife

#6 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473107&postcount=6)

Starts with "nonsense" ;) and then states that she's better at analysis than theorizing, says lynching the Cobbler would be no loss, finds a sneaky Cobbler like SpM more dangerous than a suicidal Cobbler. Corrects her Eonwe/Elenwe mistake. And here I go summarizing when I don't care for that.... Okay, my thought on this post is... Was this really the thing that sparked the analyze/theory debate? :rolleyes:

#61 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473322&postcount=61)

TP, Kitanna, and Boromir have caught her eye, and she addresses some of their posts. Boro's posts are indeed weird when I compare them to Roa's initial post, so I can see why an innocent Roa would find him to be off.

#70 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473344&postcount=70)

Boro analysis, sans personal thoughts, which come in post:

#72 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473348&postcount=72) - #77 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473359&postcount=77) - #79 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473363&postcount=79)

Makes valid points (obviously) about Boro's inconsistent posting. So... unless she were to be pulling another Roa/Nogord stunt a la DWW, things seems to speak highly for her innocence. It relies on the question of whether you think Roaguin and Boroguin would plot such heavy wolf on wolf action for Day 1.

#81 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473366&postcount=81)

A reply to Ang, which makes Ang look worse and her look better, knowing now that Boro was guilty.

#88 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473374&postcount=88)

Votes for Boro, no surprise there.

#92 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473379&postcount=92)

Continued debate with Boro, a la #72/#77/#79.

#101 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473392&postcount=101)

"I told you so" in response to Lal's reveal, chides village for forching Lal's hand, but approves of Ang's attempt to save her.

#110 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473403&postcount=110)

Intends to vote for Kit to save Lal if no one else shows to vote for Boro.

#115 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473408&postcount=115)

"Well, that just sucks then. Nevermind. NAria- what are you doing?"

#119 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473413&postcount=119)

Trying to convince Naria to change her vote.

#124 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473419&postcount=124)

"And Lal is safe! Good job Naria! Boromir now has 5 votes."

#129 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473425&postcount=129)

"That was the most nerve-racking ten minutes of my month.

EDIT: Cross posted with mod again. I have to stop that."

#133 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473573&postcount=133)

Not surprised by Kit's death, intends to analyze Boro and anyone who mentioned/interacted with him. Tells Lal to reveal only if the innocent person is in danger of being lynched.

#135 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473576&postcount=135)

Says that if the person is the Hunter Lal should definitely reveal but not reveal that they are the Hunter. This is a somewhat self-defeating plan, because she'd just said not to reveal unless there seems to be danger of lynching, so if Lal followed her advice but revealed sooner than later, it would tell us that person is the Hunter.

#145 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473590&postcount=145)

Makes her lists of people re: Boro.

#149 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473598&postcount=149)

Explains Kit's Ranger reveal.

#151 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473604&postcount=151)

Questions those who played with Boromir.

I can theorize that a Roaguin and a Boroguin could plot for Boro play things in a marketedly different way than his last game, get Boro lynched, then use his history of not fingering comrades as a defense for Roa. But this seems pretty out there, especially as it relies again on sacrificing Boro Day 1, which seems awfully reckless in a village where Roa wouldn't be able to make anymore werepenguins to play with.

#154 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473621&postcount=154)

Says Ang and Jenny are pinging her radar, would like the Boro-knowledge, but questions the use of PMs. This once more seems innocent to me, as if she was a penguin orchestrating a plot in which Boro behaves differently than before, the PMs could only help her case.

#158 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473636&postcount=158)

Um... yeah. I made a typo, saying TiG XX instead of TiG X, and she responded as if I actually meant TiG XX, even though I'd already fixed the typo at that point. Of course, she does follow it directly with a statement that she needs sleep. :) This strikes me as odd, though:

"Honestly, you could just tell us what he's prone to do- there's no reall reason to use them."

That in regards to PMs. Isn't she the one who wanted to know about what Boro is prone to do? There is a reason to use them, therefore, it's just a matter of being allowed to.

#191 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473757&postcount=191)

She says more than I'm mentioning, but the points of interest are that she thinks Ang is the Cobbler and points out that Eonwe is likely Mod Fire fodder. If she and Eonwe were avian teamates and she was sure he was going to return, this could be a way of saving him from a lynching. But, I doubt it.

#206 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473773&postcount=206)

Jenny summary/analysis. Builds a case very thourough case against her, thinks she is either a penguin or the Cobbler.

#210 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473779&postcount=210)

"Eonwe, you do realize that if you don't vote today, you'll be removed from the game, don't you?"

#219 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473789&postcount=219)

Votes Jenny, tying her with Valier.

#224 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473794&postcount=224)

Responds to Ang about Diamond's possible guilt, but notes that I've never been guilty that she has seen, asks if I ever have been. (The answer to that is no, I never have.)

#231 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473801&postcount=231)

Post votes, says Jenny is to be hanged.

#234 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473804&postcount=234)

"Good bye, Lal. Well done, and thanks for your help."

#243 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473952&postcount=243) - #245 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473954&postcount=245)

Ang summary/analysis/opinion. She thinks he is innocent, largely based on Boro's behavior, but doesn't rule his possible guilt out.

#249 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473960&postcount=249)

Defends Valier, sort of, against Diamond and Firefoot.

#255 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473973&postcount=255) - #256 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473975&postcount=256)

Diamond summary/analysis/opinion. I think she thinks I'm evil?

"A Diamond who goes along with others is a Diamond that just doesn't exist on the side of good."

At first I thought this read, "A Diamond who gets along with others..." and I thought, "Gee, thanks." Ha. I am, actually, an INFJ and this is what they say 'bout me:

Accurately suspicious about others' motives, INFJs are not easily led. These are the people that you can rarely fool any of the time.

So yeah, she may have a point there, if I'm allowing myself to be led, something is fishy. But I don't think I've been "going along" really, so much as taking comfort in the fact that I know tp isn't evil and purposefully misleading.

#259 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473980&postcount=259)

Says that it's a good thing Jenny is lynched, points out Jenny's Cobbler hints [D'oh!]. Makes responses to tp, which I'm an too tired to summarize.

#260 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473981&postcount=260)

States intent to analyze Naria. Comments on Eonwe, and I pretty much agree with what she says. (Obviously, I said similar things yesterDay.)

#262 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473983&postcount=262)

Shoots down Firefoot's case against Valier.

#265 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473988&postcount=265)

Naria analysis. Not much to say, because, after all, it's Naria....

#266 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473989&postcount=266) - #270 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473995&postcount=270) - #271 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473996&postcount=271) - #273 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=474000&postcount=273) - #276 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=474004&postcount=276) - #278 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=474006&postcount=278) - #279 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=474008&postcount=279) - #282 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=474011&postcount=282)

Here be her side of the Rumble In Da Jungle with Firefoot. Obviously, this entire thing is a nefarious plot to best me in the post count. Well, ha ha, I'm not going to let it happen! Which is why my Conclusion will follow in my next post.

[Encaitare]

Valier
Game 1: WW16
Role: Ordo
Death: killed by wolves on Night 4
Posts: 15
Avg. PPD (posts per day): 5

Game 2: WW17
Role: Ordo
Death: killed by wolves on Night 3
Posts: 9
Avg. PPD: 4.5

Game 3: WWJ3
Role: Wolf
Death: killed by village on Day 4
Posts: 27
Avg. PPD: 6.75

Game 4: WWJ4
Role: Ordo
Death: Hanged by villagers on Day 5
Posts: 42
Avg. PPD: 8.4

Game 5: WW19
Role: Ordo
Death: Killed by wolf on Day 5
Posts: 32
Avg. PPD: 6.4

Game 6: WWJ8
Role: Ordo
Death: Slain on Night 6
Posts: 40
Avg. PPD: 6.7

Game 7: WW21
Role: Wolf
Death: killed on Day 4
Posts: 50
Avg. PPD: 12.5

Current Game
Day: 3 (16 1/2 hours left)
Total Posts: 23
Avg. PPD: 7.7

The post count in WW21 (Dueling Wizards) is a big jump from the rest of the games, but I understand this game had circumstances unlike any other, so I'm not sure what to make of it.

~*~*~*~*~

Diamond18

Game 1: WWJ6
Role: Ordo
Death: Survived till end (Day 3)
Posts: 27
Avg. PPD: 9

Game 2: WWJ7
Role: Hunter (Taker)
Death: Killed on Night 4
Posts: 37
Avg. PPD: 12.3

Game 3: WW20
Role: Ordo
Death: Killed on Night 4
Posts: 39
Avg. PPD: 13

Game 4: WW21
Role: Ordo
Death: Killed by wolves on Night 9
Posts: 88
Avg. PPD: 11

(Di, the problem was that when I searched the Grimoire for you, I searched your full name, while in that game you were listed as just Diamond. I apologize for the omission.)

Current Game:
Day: 3 (16 1/4 hours left)
Posts: 35
Avg. PPD: 11.7

Diamond's post count remains pretty consistent, too. I'm afraid that my computer might crash and I'll lose a lot of work, so I'm posting this and the rest will follow.

[Diamond18]

Okay. I mostly feel that Roa is innocent. Pretty much everything she's done and said has been blameless, so trying to pin anything on her is a fruitless endeavor, as Boro obviously found out. She got into a fight with Firefoot but she seems genuine in her attacks. You have to approach her with the assumption that she is definitely a penguin to be able to read shady intentions into her posts. So, as that seems rather silly and malicious, I'm not going to do it.

The only problem I see with Roa is that I know for a fact she's disturbingly good at stylish evil. And I've played a game in which she was a wolf yet before my death at her paws I had her placed in my most innocent of innocent positions on a list of suspects. This is why a Seer dream of Roa is a must have. Unfortunately, Lalaith died with the secret on her lips. So all I can say is that there are more likely suspects at this point, and to lynch Roa toDay would be folly, in my opinion. It's my prediction that after tp is slaughtered, Roa will be next on the penguins' menu, if they live through the next two lynchings. If Roa lives through the next few Nights after tp's death, and her top suspects are lynched and turn up innocent, then I'd start to worry.

[Diamond18]

Enca, you left out my fourth game, which was TiG XXI: Dueling Wizards.

Also, are you taking into account, with the post counts, that people often come back and post in the game thread after the game is over?

Also:
Day: 3 (4 1/4 hours left)

I hope not? Because that puts the deadline at about 5 AM my time instead of the usual 5 PM. ;)

[Diamond18]

She was a Wolf in WW XII, Erbar Telamarth. I can't remember who modded it and all, but I seem to remember it was an amazing game.

:rolleyes:

Okay, so, I've noted that she was the last Wolf down in that game. Fascinating. Unfortunately, I have spent my evening on Firefoot and Roa analysis (analyses? analysi?) and to spend another couple hours researching Enca.... Sane Diamond wouldn't do it. I'll perhaps get back to you on Insane Diamond's stance.


It's not such a secret, hon, what with all of those pms you're always sending me late at night asking me what I'm wearing. :p

Yes, but, I find your answers intriguing from a psychological standpoint. For instance, the fishnet stockings and hot pants you wore last night....


Well, then I guess you're not going to like this. I've made a list of doom.

1) Diamond

And if you don't vote for someone on the list, you get lynched!

I hope you're not serious.


I've gotta go now. I'll be back tomorrow about four hours before the deadline, and I think I'll be able to stick around for the rest of the day.

Can we PLEASE hear from EVERYONE today. A LOT!

I should perhaps point out that I will not be around for the 4 and a half hours leading up to the deadline. Pooh. So, all this jabber you're getting from me now is me trying to get all my useful posting done while I can. After I go beddy-bye, you can only expect me to show up once more to vote before work.

That said, I may vote before bed, just on the off chance I oversleep or can't get online before work.... I mean, I get a retraction. Might as well indulge.

[Encaitare]

Also:
Day: 3 (4 1/4 hours left)

Yes, I just realized that... it's past 2 AM and I'm falling asleep yet trying to plug away at these stats nevertheless. I shall go back and fix it. I shall also add your fourth game.

Also, are you taking into account, with the post counts, that people often come back and post in the game thread after the game is over?

I am not taking this into account... I'm willing to spend a lot of time going over stats, but I'm not going to go that far. If anyone else is willing to spend the time on it, go for it... if not, just subtract a couple of posts from everyone's count.

[Diamond18]

Okay, I've made a quick desicion. I'm not staying up to reasearch Enca circa WW XII, because like my subject ;) it's around 2 AM where I am and I'm falling asleep. So, for the time being:

+ + SPAWN

Because I find her earlier behavior suspicious and un-innocent-Spawn-like, and so far she has done nothing to alleviate my concerns.

My other suspects are kind of getting all muddled together in my head. I must need sleep.

[Encaitare]

Naria

Game 1: WW16
Role: Hunter
Death: "Disappeared" on Night 9
Posts: 17
Avg. PPD: 2.1

Game 2: WW17
Role: Wolf
Death: killed by villagers on Day 4
Posts: 11
Avg. PPD: 2.75

Game 3: WW19
Role: Ordo
Death: Survived to the end (Day 6)
Posts: 23
Avg. PPD: 3.8

Game 4: WW20
Role: Shaman
Death: Survived to the end (Day 5, I believe)
Posts: 17
Avg. PPD: 3.4

Game 5: WWJ5
Role: Ordo
Death: Killed on Night 4
Posts: 12
Avg. PPD: 4

Game 6: WW21
Role: Wolf
Death: Killed by Hunter on Night 3
Posts: 11
Avg. PPD: 5.5

Current Game
Day: 3 (15 1/2 hours left)
Posts: 5
Avg. PPD: 1.7

Macalaure - No previous games

Current Game
Day: 3 (15 1/2 hours left)
Posts: 19
Avg. PPD: 6.3

By the way, I will recalculate the post counts for the current game at the end of Day 3 so as to make the averages more accurate.

EDIT: Cross-posted with Diamond.

[Diamond18]

Oh, one other thing, what happened to Ang? Did he show up today? At all? Did I miss an away notice?

[Anguirel]

How can you have been so blasted talkative in a mere 9 hours?

I've just woken up.

Diamond's audreyfication is distracting me from the higher purpose of lynching her. I just don't want that avatar to go...

OK, a proper post in a while. Too groggy now.

[Encaitare]

Firefoot

Game 1: WW1
Role: Wolf
Death: lynched by villagers on Day 2
Posts: 7
Avg. PPD: 3.5

(NOTE: All post counts for the very first Tol-in-Gaurhoth game have been counted by me and do not include (merely clicking the Who's Posted thing on this thread would be a huge mistake, seeing as it's now 80-something pages long!)

Game 2: WW3
Role: Guardian
Death: killed by wolves on Night 4
Posts: 20
Avg. PPD: 6.7

Game 3: WW4
Role: Ordo
Death: survived to the end (Day 5)
Posts: 28
Avg. PPD: 5.6

Game 4: WW5
Role: Ordo
Death: killed by wolves on Night 4
Posts: 20
Avg. PPD: 6.7

Game 5: WW6
Role: Mythomaniac
Death: survived to the end (Day 4)
Posts: 30
Avg. PPD: 7.5

Game 6: WW8
Role: Shirriff
Death: killed on Night 3
Posts: 10
Avg. PPD: 5

Game 7: WW12
Role: Seer
Death: killed by wolves on Night 4
Posts: 25
Avg. PPD: 8.3

Game 8: WW13
Role: Ordo
Death: killed by wolves on Night 6
Posts: 31
Avg. PPD: 6.2

Game 9: WWJ4
Role: Ordo
Death: killed by winning wolves on Day 5
Posts: 34
Avg. PPD: 6.8

Game 10: WWJ6
Role: Ordo
Death: survived to the end (Day 3)
Posts: 17
Avg. PPD: 5.7

Game 11: WW21
Role: Ordo
Death: killed by wolves on Night 5
Posts: 33
Avg. PPD: 8.25

Current Game:
Day: 3 (15 hours left)
Posts: 17
Avg. PPD: 5.7

Alrighty, I'm very very tired now, having delved deep into the archives of Werewolf lore. I'm going to get some sleep... I'll be back maybe around noon EST to finish the stats. In the meantime, glean from these what you will.

[Naria]

Ok, here's my impression of everyone so far.

In order as per the list of players

Anguirel- Hmmm he's a tuff one to understand. I don't like the way that he is being so pushy with his posts especially towards people that I don't find particularly evil right now. Quite frankly some of his posts don't make any sense at all and that doesn't sit well with me.

Spawn- I don't know. She hasn't been playing like she normally does, maybe it's due to RL but maybe not. I would expect alot more from her by now and that just hasn't happened yet. Another one that isn't sitting well with me.

Diamond- She seems to be acting per usual. Nothing to send up red flags yet.

Enca- She has some pretty good reasoning in her posts, but I am not ready to take my eye off of her just yet.

Eonwe- Seems rather elusive and pretty confident that he will be around the next four or five or was it six Days to come up with something. That kind of behaviour makes me uneasy.

Firefoot- I'm not sure about. She seems to be trying to give it her all, but fumbles the ball at times. Like I said....I'm not sure.

Mac- A newbie and to me he is acting like one, an outspoken one, but nonetheless a newbie. Yes, he could be one of our flightless fiends, but I would think that someone would have picked up on something in one of his chatty posts to point in that direction.

Naria- She is rather quite so far in this game, but I'm assuming that RL has reared it's ugly head on a number of occasions. And that is why she is posting so early in the morning 1am; while her world sleeps so she can get this summary done.

TP- Seems to be doing his usual Fred off of Scooby-Doo. Directing who is to go where and how we are supposed to do it :D . And as Lal pointed out....an ordo, so he would be the only one that we should heed or at the very least consider what he has to say.

Roa- Is evil! HA....I jest of course. But, I don't trust her nonetheless....I don't know if I ever will. She's crafty beyond belief. If there is one person that can pull off a septuple bluff, I'm sure Roa could do it with ease.

Valier- She's another hard one to read. I do want to mention, however that she can be quite the asset in a village with her uncanny ability for WW spotting.

Well that's about that. I won't be doing another one like this, so enjoy. I'm off to bed now.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Bringing up old village matters this much is a bit distracting, I think. Encai's effort to deduce something by posting records is interesting, but it lacks a lot of information, like what was the player's situation in RL at that time, who else was playing ie. was it a loud village where there was hard to keep up, for example, what kind of comrades did a wolf have in a village etc, and I'm not sure if I want to go that far with this. I'd rather concentrate on what's going on in this village using experience to back up theories, but not in the source material.

About Encai and Firefoot...

Due to RL Encai could post only twice on Day 1. She mentiones that in both her posts, and in the last one says that the penguins can be loud, too, and not of the silent type (like herself). She suspects Lalaith for being helpful too early and spawn for being suspicious of Anguirel while Encai isn't. Says that her vote for Lalaith is probably wrong, but it's as good a guess as she can make at the moment.

On Day 2 Encai thinks that Boro might have placed one of his comrades on his suspect list. On that account she finds Roa innocent and Ang a bit suspicious. Later she repeats that she thinks that Roa is innocent and thinks that Macalaure would have reacted differently to Di's vote for him if he was a penguin. She agrees with phantom's earlier opinion that Mac is innocent although phantom later suspects him based on the voting. She also lists the votes and agrees with Mac about Jenny (that she looks supicious). Later she talks more about why she finds Jenny suspicious, and votes for her giving her a 5th vote while Valier has 4.

ToDay Encai has answered some points Firefoot made against her. Ff based her accusations on the assumption that Valier is a WP which was a bit rash, I think. Still, it's one theory, and having different theories to consider is a good thing. The only thing bothering me about Ff mentioning Encai's vote like that was that Ff didn't say that Encai had suspected Jenny earlier that Day, and she excused Di for tying Valier with Jenny. Yes, it's still part of the theory that 'what if Valier is a WP', but it sounded odd. It's not really safe to assume anyone innocent based on a guess of someone's guilt.

Even though Ff admitted that she didn't have much to go on about Encai and Naria, her reasons to suspect Encai were a bit sloppily put together which I wonder, since I think Ff would have been capable to do more than that. In that sense I understand that Encai wanted to clear it up by answering to Ff.

However, the way that Encai sticked to her earlier statement of Jenny doesn't as simply make her look innocent as she might think. First she agreed with Mac about Jenny saying that she had in her thoughts been suspicious of Jenny earlier, too. Then she added a couple of her own comments, and after two long analyses of Jenny by other people, she voted for her. Whether Valier is a WP or not, that would have been a logical thing for a WP to do; choose a target, agree with people, try to add a few own opinions and vote consistently.

Encai hopes to do something else later than to defend herself, and so she starts posting WW statistics. Looks very nice and helpful, but she doesn't really comment on them herself and as I said, they lack important information, so this brings to mind an attempt to look helpful while hiding some penguinesque features.

As to Firefoot, the skirmish between her and Roa was interesting. It happened in a very little of time after several people had suddenly voiced concerns of her, but I don't know what to think of it. Right now I'm a bit wary of both Encai and Firefoot. More later.

[Anguirel]

My internet has been broken between my last post and now. Will edit this when I have something decent to say.

Right. Well, the Right Honourable Kuruharan once called summarising lists "campy", but e'en he resorted to them in the end, and now I intend to follow his example, to create some kind of order, and always to keep in mind what we already know-Boro was a wolf. What relationship would he have had to our suspects? How will their behaviour have been affected by his loss? And does it match with what I can see? So, in no particular order:

Valier-as a wolf she is a hardy lieutenant who is often quite hard to catch; for the reasons Diamond raised, that her tactics are so consistent. In this case, I'm not entirely sure. I was more willing to absolve her yesterday. The fact that Diamond was pretty much urging her to the gibbet is in my mind some kind of evidence in her favour. But there are troubles here. Her "instincts" do seem slightly affected by realpolitick-what she can realistically hope to achieve according to the fluctuations of public opinion. Hence she has laid off the generally trusted Macalaure, concentrated fire especially on me, and now, it must be said, seems to transfer some energy to Firefoot and Eonwe. Not sure, but I won't vote for her unless some of my clearer theories are derailed.

Firefoot-Bleeding heck. What is going on here? Perhaps it's nothing more than a somewhat understandable phase of Werewolf satiation. Like Diamond (disconcertingly I find my reactions to recent events chime with Diamond's on several fronts) I have no idea what was going on in her war with Roa. However the detachment I see seems more preoccupied than tactical, really. Give her time, maybe. Today at least.

Diamond-Must transcend Audrey-worship. Must transcend Audrey-worship. Diamond now seems pretty down-to-earth and sensible (ooo, she won't like that). All the more reason to keep suspecting her! I come at this from a different angle to Roa's case-to me Diamond is making too much sense not to know too much, and I'm even starting to worry about being influenced by her. Aye, me, the die-hard individualist. She very nearly got Valier lynched rather than Jenny yesterday, without overtly disagreeing with Jenny's lynching-had she sighted a Cobbler ally?

Enca-a lot more attention has been paid to her after Lalaith's astute parting indictment, and she is looking somewhat suspicious. Her voting pattern, though, if I remember rightly, is unexceptional. I don't hold with voting patterns especially. I may well join the movement against her should my Diamond case draw an utter blank again. I think her coolness and comparative reticence are quite inherent, but she's sometimes more choleric as an innocent.

I'm exhausted. Back with more later.

[Diamond18]

Later she repeats that she thinks that Roa is innocent and thinks that Macalaure would have reacted differently to Di's vote for him if he was a penguin.

I never voted for Mac....

[Diamond18]

Well, I must go, and there really hasn't been enough posting since I voted to give me any solid reason to retract. I believe the voting at the moment is:

Mac --> Eonwe
Diamond --> Spawn

A pity that Mac will not be around toDay to retract, for if you'll note the TiG thread, Eonwe is no longer with us. Oh well. I leave the deciding of fates in the hands of the rest of you lot.

[Encaitare]

Roa_Aoife

Game 1: WWJ3
Role: Ordo
Death: killed by wolves on Night 5
Posts: 47
Avg. PPD: 9.4

Game 2: WWJ4
Role: Wolf
Death: killed by village on Day 3
Posts: 23
Avg. PPD: 7.7

Game 3: WWJ5
Role: Seer
Death: survived to the end (Day 5)
Posts: 36
Avg. PPD: 7.2

Game 4: WWJ7
Role: Ordo
Death: survived to the end (Day 7)
Posts: 56
Avg. PPD: 8

Game 5: WW20
Role: wereorc
Death: killed by village on Day 4
Posts: 67
Avg. PPD: 16.75

Game 6: WWJ8
Role: Ordo
Death: departed village on Day 3
Posts: 22
Avg. PPD: 7.3

Game 6: WW21
Role: Evil Wizard
Death: killed on Day 6
Posts: 70
Avg. PPD:11.7

Current Game:
Day: 3 (4 1/4 hours left)
Posts: 46
Avg. PPD: 15.3

Encai hopes to do something else later than to defend herself, and so she starts posting WW statistics. Looks very nice and helpful, but she doesn't really comment on them herself and as I said, they lack important information, so this brings to mind an attempt to look helpful while hiding some penguinesque features.

I myself am not sure if it will be helpful. However, many people were wondering about other players' posting habits, and here they are, accurate to within a few posts, for everyone to see. I'll go back after I've done everyone and look for patterns and inconsistencies.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

It's not easy to try to deal with two Days' material in 24 hours, I tell you that. *sigh* Now, about Valier and Diamond...

As has been pointed out, it was funny how Valier right away said that Boro is definitely a WP. She suspected almost everyone else, too, but didn't directly say them to be WPs. Enca was the only one that Valier didn't accuse right away, but said that she doesn't know if Enca is guilty or not.

I, too, found this odd:The things you say sound good, so people tend to follow you, and adding the arrow again to your posts, suggests you are false in some way. The arrow issue was explained to Valier already in last village, so why to make a fuss about it again...

All in all, by reading Valier's posts I think she is usually more independent. She makes decisions based on gut feelings, states whom she suspects and votes. Now she seems to be trying to sway and take contact with other villagers more.

Diamond, then. Late on Day 1 she said that I feel innocent, but on Day 2 before she hadn't done "any sort of analyse" of my posts she said that she may vote for me. It was a bit same thing with Valier. Di said that "Valier seems her usual self, nothing much to comment on, could be anything", and later that she had a little nagging feeling about her among many others, but on Day 2 she just nominated Valier to one of her four possible lynchees without really explaining it. Oh well. It seemed to be pretty much the same list that the bunch of people whom Boro thought innocent.

Di has posted those summaries a lot and I was honoured to receive one, too, although I wonder why she left my suspicions about Mac being a WP and Jenny being the Cobbler out. I tried looking at Di's other analyses if she left something out of them, too, but they seem pretty sound to me.

Di's reaction to Lalaith asking if she should reveal who the innocent is whom she dreamed of is interesting. She highlights her own innocence twice, but advices Lalaith not to reveal the dream unless the dreamee is about to get lynched. Other than these things she's behaved much like I would have expected from an innocent Di.

I never voted for Mac.... Apologies, I meant Jenny.

[Valier]

As has been pointed out, it was funny how Valier right away said that Boro is definitely a WP. She suspected almost everyone else, too, but didn't directly say them to be WPs. Enca was the only one that Valier didn't accuse right away, but said that she doesn't know if Enca is guilty or not.




*Sigh* This was my first post of Day one!! This one was pretty much all in fun!! As you can see if you look more closely....Roa as the EW for example.



The arrow issue was explained to Valier already in last village, so why to make a fuss about it again...



OK OK I get it !! I still don't like when people put stuff in their posts, but I understand NOW that TP puts them in all his posts.

All in all, by reading Valier's posts I think she is usually more independent. She makes decisions based on gut feelings, states whom she suspects and votes. Now she seems to be trying to sway and take contact with other villagers more.


Yes I agree with you on this. I am usually a bit more independent, but in every other village no one would rally with me when I had a strong gut feeling on someone, so this time round I thought I would try and be more helpful, by listening and considering other peoples suspicions as well as my gut feelings. Oh and I always wait till the end of the day to vote, so that is not odd for me.

[Firefoot]

Okay, I'm back and should be around until the deadline.

What I'm starting to wonder is if I was a lot more tired than I thought I was when I put my theories together. I really did think they were good theories. But maybe the five hours of sleep I got that day wasn't sufficient to put together something sensible.

I don't know anymore.

[Encaitare]

the phantom

(I have not looked forward to doing yours, tp, as it is bound to be just as extensive as Firefoot's...)

Game 1: WW1
Role: Ordo
Death: killed by wolves on Night 4
Posts: 17
Avg. PPD: 5.7

Game 2: WW2
Role: Wolf
Death: survived to the end (Day 5)
Posts: 22
Avg. PPD: 4.4

Game 3: WW3
Role: Ordo
Death: lynched by villagers on Day 3
Posts: 37
Avg. PPD: 12.3

Game 4: WW4
Role: Shirriff
Death: died on Night 3
Posts: 33
Avg. PPD: 16.5

Game 5: WW9
Role: Seer
Death: killed by wolves on Night 3
Posts: 19
Avg. PPD: 9.5

Game 6: WW10
Role: wolf
Death: survived to the end (Day 6)
Posts: 43
Avg. PPD: 7.2

Game 7: WW21
Role: Hunter
Death: died on Night 3
Posts: 18
Avg. PPD: 9

Current Game:
Day: 3 (4 hours left)
Posts: 22
Avg. PPD: 7.3

Well, compared to Firefoot's that actually wasn't so bad.. :p

Spawn's next.

[Anguirel]

Firefoot, perhaps I'm missing a good point, and I will examine your posts again for my own benefit. (Groan.) It's just your contribution is usually more...obviously helpful.

Now some more.

Spawnowen-is to Diamond what Diamond is to me-a pet lynching project. I think though that Diamond may have more success than I. Still, spawn is much more on the ball now. Her contribution in the case against Valier was just as important as Diamond's-am I getting it right?-so perhaps in fairness I should suspect her too, but she seems to be playing things straighter. Suspects Macalaure, seriously off the beaten path and so giving her some cred. Talking of which...

Macalaure-yes, I agree that his early career and phantom's innocence made it look like he was acting alone. But we ought to watch him, not dismiss him out of hand. He does have ye olde beginner's lock. He might just be in concert with Valier, I suppose; she did abruptly stop suspecting him. Quite outlandish, I admit. But fiendish newcomers clawing to an easy victory have been known before.

Roa-I get the malaise when approaching her that affects me when dealing with the especially loud. Like verbal earache. But I'm going to press on. Yesterday I regarded her as next most worth an Inquisition after Diamond. She does go for elaborately documented and apparently impartial, fairminded cases. She criticises me, incidentally, for openly looking for reasons to blame people. She has a point, but that's not quite what I do, though it sometimes looks like it: I

1. Feel "Urrgh-what if?-look at such and such a minor thing...hmmm"
2. State my fear
3. See if there's any truth in it

The problem being that I rarely articulate stage 1 and sometimes leapfrog elegantly over stage 3. And land in the mud.

Naria-till recently, no evidence, really, except vague kudos for, in the end, acting to save Lalaith. Recently analysis which still doesn't reveal much, but does show complete trust in...Diamond! Argh! It's a conspiracy! Also accuses me of making no sense. How gajopyiferous.

Eonwe-apparently out-haven't yet seen why or how myself

Blast. I'm missing somebody. Oh yes, phantom, no real need to cover him.

[Anguirel]

Oh and Enca, while I realise it must be an effort and applaud your diligence I don't really find your number-joggling all that helpful either. I feel posting-style to be far more revealing in its consistency than posting quantity, so often at the whims of RL.

Sorry to say something so pious. But those seemingly endless stats are getting me down-must be tiring you out too-and I don't really see their purpose...

[Encaitare]

Sorry to say something so pious. But those seemingly endless stats are getting me down-must be tiring you out too-and I don't really see their purpose...

I figured I could go for a different approach, seeing as there are multiple post analyses of people and while it's great that we've gotten a wolf and the cobbler, they don't seem to be much of a help now (at least, not to me). If a lot of people feel that the stats are not useful, then I'll stop since there's no point in cluttering up the page.

Thank you for your frankness. :)

[the phantom]

OK OK I get it !! I still don't like when people put stuff in their posts, but I understand NOW that TP puts them in all his posts.
Yes, indeed I always put arrows in my posts. Arrows + my avie have been my calling card since pretty much my first day on the Downs. It makes it easy to find my posts. :)

Here's a kinda-sorta list of doom.

I'm not saying these people are innocent, but for various reasons I don't want to vote for any of them today-
Spawn
Firefoot
Mac
Roa
Diamond
Valier
the phantom (obviously)

So that leaves for voting-
Anguirel
Enca
Naria

It's pretty much a guarantee I'll choose from those four.

[Encaitare]

dancing spawn of ungoliant

Game 1: WW2
Role: Wolf
Death: survived to the end (Day 5)
Posts: 8
Avg. PPD: 1.6

Game 2: WW4
Role: Ordo
Death: killed on Night 4
Posts: 12
Avg. PPD: 4

Game 3: WW7
Role: Ordo
Death: killed by wolves on Night 4
Posts: 28
Avg. PPD: 9.3

Game 4: WW8
Role: Ordo
Death: survived to the end (Day 7)
Posts: 38
Avg. PPD: 5.4

Game 5: WW10
Role: Ordo
Death: killed by victorious wolves on Day 6
Posts: 28
Avg. PPD: 4.7

Game 6: WW14
Role: Wolf
Death: killed by village on Day 1
Posts: 3
Avg. PPD: 3

Game 7: WW15
Role: Hero (equivalent of a wolf in this reversed game)
Death: killed on Night 4 by victorious wolves (equivalent of villagers)
Posts: 17
Avg. PPD: 5.7

Game 8: WW17
Role: Ordo
Death: survived to the end (Day 7)
Posts: 35
Avg. PPD: 5

Game 9: WW18
Role: Ordo
Death: killed by wolves on Night 4
Posts: 18
Avg. PPD: 6

Game 10: WW19
Role: Seer
Death: Killed on Night 3
Posts: 17
Avg. PPD: 8.5

Game 11: WW20
Role: Ordo
Death: Killed on Night 3
Posts: 8
Avg. PPD: 4

Game 12: WWJ8
Role: wereduck
Death: killed by village on Day 2
Posts: 12
Avg. PPD: 6

Game 13: WW21
Role: Hunter
Death: killed by wolves on Night 7
Posts: 32
Avg. PPD: 5.3

Current Game
Day: 3 (3 1/4 hours left)
Posts: 8
Avg. PPD: 2.7

Ok, this will probably be the last stats analysis of its kind unless someone else feels that it's helpful. I have to depart shortly, but will be back later to vote -- I have no idea yet for whom.

BTW, phantom, Eonwe is already out of the game (check the TiG-J thread) so don't waste a vote on him. :)

[Anguirel]

phantom me old aubergine, don't vote for Eonwe-he's given up, which I suppose was probably the decent thing to do in the circumstances...

[the phantom]

BTW, phantom, Eonwe is already out of the game
If he's a Penguin, ha ha! :)

If he's not- awww. :(

[Anguirel]

Would a Penguin bother to go through the palaver of withdrawing? I doubt it, myself. Still, I suppose we have a very remote chance of ridding ourselves of the Penguins this evening.

[the phantom]

A whole 9 posts by a whole 3 people in the last 3 hours! It's utter chaos! I can't handle so many posts at one time!

:rolleyes:

The votes currently stand at-
Mac for Already-dead-Eonwe
Diamond for Spawn

[Anguirel]

Lord, things are slow today.

Well, I must vote now-might retract in Diamond's disfavour later, but at the mo I feel driving a Valier style campaign might in the longterm have less purgative effects than testing my next suspect, suspected by Diamond, as a touchstone for the latter's guilt.

So it's going to have to be

++ENCA

She was attacked by Lalaith whose judgement, even when non-Dream-guided, I have a certain amount of respect for. Though I don't on balance think her numerate escapades too bad, there are plenty of other signs picked up previously. I also am still uncertain about Valier's guilt and, to be frank, think Enca's potential bandwagon one of the few able to withstand the anti Valier movement.

My thoughts though still remain essentially concentrated on Audrey, Dimwe, whatever.

[Valier]

I also am still uncertain about Valier's guilt and, to be frank, think Enca's potential bandwagon one of the few able to withstand the anti Valier movement


I wasn't aware there was a movement.:rolleyes: :D

[Anguirel]

Six votes in an electorate of twelve isn't merely a movement, m'dear.

It's practically a Crusade! I'm not sure quite so many will coalesce this time, but still...

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Well, thanks Encai, even though those statistics won't in my opinion tell much in the WP hunt, it was interesting to read them. However, you might have done yourself a disservice by spending so much time on them. We haven't got your own opinions toDay which isn't good.

Now that Ang has started talking again, my suspicions of him have partly returned, but considering how Boro acted regarding him makes me hesitate. When I look at Boro's post #33 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473252&postcount=33), I'm most worried about Firefoot and Naria. It's interesting, too, that Boromir refrained from giving his thoughts about Roa in that post, but just explained what a theory is. Right now Roa isn't very high in my suspicion list, though.

Firefoot, if innocent can greatly benefit the village, if penguin would probably be our demise. But we shouldn't lynch a player like Firefoot on Day 1, unless she wants to tell us a little secret that only 2 other people know? :p That smiley is worrysome, too.

Other than that, from Day 1 one interesting thing about Ff was her reaction to me saying: "When I return, I hope to have time to take a look at Firefoot and Roa - and sir Anguirel, perhaps."

"That caught my eye too. Actually, more interesting to me is that Spawn brought up Roa and myself in the first place at that point... I only had one post, and it wasn't exactly a very weighty one either. Not exactly much to look at." ~Firefoot

Yes. All those who had posted at that point had made just one or two posts, so I could have chosen anyone and it would still have been the same situation. Ff is expressing her point quite coolly, but if she's a WP she knows not to overreact, and I think an innocent villager would probably have left it without a comment.

As to Naria, I keep forgetting that she's in this village.

Naria I don't know at this point. Naria seems to be one of those silent contributors. Doesn't have to post a lot (unlike me) to have solid input and contribution to the village. I will be expecting to see more substance instead of just, hi I'm tired bye, but in this early going there's no reason to cry penguin. Boromir speaks in a quite positive tone about Naria even though she barely said anything. I think someone (phantom?) already mentioned that, so sorry if I'm repeating things. Also the choice of words, "in this early going there's no reason to cry penguin", is a bit dubious.

Ah well, back to rereading.

[Naria]

Ack! I just have time to get on quick and vote (due to RL) I may have time to pop in again before the deadline, but I am not sure.

++Spawn

She has been acting off her game and it worries me. I just have expected more from her.

[Firefoot]

Yes. All those who had posted at that point had made just one or two posts, so I could have chosen anyone and it would still have been the same situation. Ff is expressing her point quite coolly, but if she's a WP she knows not to overreact, and I think an innocent villager would probably have left it without a comment. I did leave it without a comment... until two or three people were already discussing it.

My suspicions of Encai are starting to lessen, since I'm not sure that a wolf would spend all that time going through post counts of old games. That seems more like an innocent just trying to do anything that might possibly help find a wolf.

[the phantom]

Mac for Dead-Eonwe
Di for Spawn
Ang for Enca
Naria for Spawn

There are still six votes out there, and only 45 minutes to vote. Things will probably get busy sometime soon.

[the phantom]

My suspicions of Encai are starting to lessen, since I'm not sure that a wolf would spend all that time going through post counts of old games. That seems more like an innocent just trying to do anything that might possibly help find a wolf.
Sure.

Then again, it could be a wolf tossing out a lot of information that obviously took some time to gather in an attempt to look innocent, knowing full well that the results probably won't yield anything concrete (because of things like village make-up and situation that can't be taken into account in post counts).

[Encaitare]

The clock is ticking and I'm really not sure who to vote for. Above all things I do not want to bandwagon... I am considering voting for Naria because she has barely contributed anything. I understand this is in part due to RL, but even her list of suspicion in post #298 really doesn't say anything.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I'm afraid I can't stay awake till the end. I'll be around for a couple more minutes, but here's my vote anyway.

++Naria

Based on Boro's actions I find Naria suspicious. She's so quiet that we will never find out by analysing her posts if she's guilty or not, and even if she's not, she certainly isn't helping much in catching the WPs.

Good Night, choose well!

[Valier]

*sigh* so quiet today....

I really feel the need to vote with my gut again today so it will be either

Anguirel
Firefoot
Naria

in that order of suspicion...I still think Ang has been really off this whole game and his switch in voting is odd. He is pushing for all the people that I think are innocent, so it will probably be him......I'll be back shortly.:)

[Firefoot]

Here's where I'm at for voting candidates:

Valier: I don't know. She's fading on and off my radar - some things she does are really suspicious, others seem totally innocent. Part of me says that her death might really say something (or shoot holes in most of my theories...), but I've suspected her a lot, and I can't help but feel as if I've gotten stuck on her, and don't know if that's merited or not.

Naria: I keep coming back to her. She's been so quiet; she really is just a wild card and I don't know what to do with her. The biggest thing I can ever remember about her is that Valier keeps on mentioning her, and that makes me extremely uneasy about both of them.

Encai: A lot like Valier. I don't know what to do with Encai either.

Spawn: Now that I've actually seen some recent posts of hers, I really don't know what to think. They seem logical and reasoned enough, but for some reason I can't shake the feeling that she might be a penguin. I don't want to vote for her toDay, though; I'd like to give her another Day or so to really get caught back up.

You know what's wrong with me? I figured it out. You all are used to a Firefoot who goes about on tenterhooks because she's never at all sure about wolves. Ever. I'm notorious for getting them wrong. In this game, I finally felt reasonably sure about something. Last Night, I was absolutely confident that I had finally found a wolf or two. Really, I was sure of it. Maybe it was because I was so tired that I was feeling almost reckless. I don't know. But I am never sure about things, and I was. That, combined with being tired, is why I've seemed so different to you all. And now with all these accusations flying my way, I don't even trust myself and feel like I have no idea what I'm doing.

So I guess that puts the voting at:

Eonwe – 1 (Macalaure 1)
Spawn – 1 (Diamond 2)
Encai – 1 (Ang 3)
Spawn – 1 (Naria 4)
Naria – 1 (Spawn 5)

[Encaitare]

I'm not sure that I agree with others' top suspects (Spawn, Ang) -- I don't know that there's enough conclusive evidence to label either of them a WP, and the odds are against us for catching a WP anyway. If it turns out that I am wrong, then I shall of course look at these suspects with a more scrutinizing (and accusatory) eye, but for now it shall be

++ NARIA

EDIT: Cross-posted with Firefoot.

[the phantom]

I would now like to refer you back to Lalaith on Day 2.
Firstly, and most importantly: the person I dreamt of last night was not on the evil side. What else s/he might be, I will of course not divulge.
But whether phantom is anything more, I leave for the penguins to find out, if they dare.
Our dearly departed Lalaith wasn't trying to fool the Penguins when she said this. I am THE HUNTER.

I can hear you screaming now, "What are you doing?! Revealing?! Why?! The Penguins won't kill you now and your kill is worthless!"

But that is simply not true. The Penguins will still kill me. They aren't idiots. No matter what, a Werecreature does not leave proven innocents hanging about. It stacks the odds against them in a ridiculous way in the latter stages of the game.

What I am accomplishing by revealing is this- I am going to give you a proven innocent (probably) for one more day.

How am I going to do that? First, remember that the Hunter in this game is a "logical Hunter", and so only takes his night pick with him if the pick is a Penguin. So, I'm going to tell you exactly who my night pick is before today ends. Odds are it will be an innocent. And so, when I die tonight and my pick stays alive, you can rest assured that they are innocent.

The next night, the Penguins will obviously kill them, but oh well- at least I gave you one person to rule out for one extra day.

And if they're stupid and leave me alive, then they'll be in big trouble at the end, because if they finally wise up and realize that they need to get rid of the proven innocent (me), the chances of me taking one of them with me will be high with a lower population.

And if they decide to leave me alive in an attempt to make my pick look guilty, I have a nice little way to deal with that after another night. If I get a chance to do it, you'll realize why people think I'm so smart. ;)

Tonight's pick will be Valier. If Val is lynched today and found guilty, Firefoot will be my pick. If Valier is lynched and found innocent, Naria will be my pick.

Good luck everyone.

+ + Naria

[Encaitare]

Voting is now like this:

Eonwe – 1 (Macalaure 1)
Spawn – 2 (Diamond 2, Naria 4)
Encai – 1 (Ang 3)
Naria – 3 (Spawn 5, Encai 6, Phantom 7)

EDIT: Cross-posted with Phantom and edited to include his vote.

[Firefoot]

I'm going to go ahead and vote for

++Naria

Thanks for fixing that, Encai... I feel dumb, listing Spawn twice...

[Anguirel]

That's...bizarre. Foul play, phantom, though I'm sure accidental; I swear I saw you vote for me, then edit it to Naria.

And Enca telepathised you'd meant to vote for Naria.

All in all, weird, but I had to point it out in case no one else saw it happen.

[Valier]

Well without further ado, at least it was someone on my list...:)

++Naria

I have suspected her from the get go and we will now finally be able to put our suspicions to rest one way or the other.

Also Phantom
I would not pick me tonight if you want to catch a wolf! If you must then do it, and you will all see. May I suggest taking either Ang or Firefoot with you if you go. I am sure one of the two is a WP.
Edit: I forgot about the Logical hunter thing....go ahead and take me with you, it will prove my innocence.

[Roa_Aoife]

Voting with no time.

I can't vote for Naria and maintain intellectual integrity. There's no case against her except that Boromir said she was quiet and the fact that she's quiet. Right now my suspicions lie with Firefoot- combine Bormir's remarks, with her over defensiveness, and refusal to state facts in her attacks, she looks quite bad.

Also, if Eonwe doesn't show today I'm voting fo rhim tomorrow unless a really good case for someone else is presented.

Thanks for your help, phantom, and good luck. Three gifteds in three nights... oh dear... Just be wary of crafty birds.

++Firefoot

[Anguirel]

phantom, any chance of you explaining your conduct in voting for me, then trying to cover it up without a formal retraction? Am I hallucinating? I'm sure it was just a slip due to exhaustion, but I would like an explanation.

[Valier]

Also, if Eonwe doesn't show today I'm voting fo rhim tomorrow unless a really good case for someone else is presented.


Read the discussion thread....he has left the game.

[Roa_Aoife]

Read the discussion thread....he has left the game.


Oh, never mind then. Sorry!

[Thinlómien]

Please stop posting (and voting, of course), little Elves.

Naria's death will be up soon.

[Thinlómien]

They were all shocked by the death of Lalaith. Or, shocked and shocked.
“They killed Lalaith? I'm shocked!” the phantom opened the Day.
“I figured I'd just show up at the very end to vote”, he added.

“Who are you and what have you done with our phantom?” Dimwë asked him jokingly. And they went on to nag at each other the whole Day, the discussion covering all from lurid dreams involving Aimé to hotpants and fishnet stockings.

But there seemed to develop some more serious duels of words. For example, Roa_Aoife, Elenwë’s personal guard, and Firefoot, Aredhel’s friend, were on each other’s throats.

But above all, everyone was quite unsure who to suspect, and even more tales of old were brought to the discussion than before. Encaitare, the standard-bearer, even tried to recount the tales of every family involved. Not everyone saw the profit of the endeavour, and she stopped.

Valier didn’t like it when it was stated that there was a movement against her. “I wasn't aware there was a movement”, she complained, “I still don't like when people put stuff in their posts.”

“Six votes in an electorate of twelve isn't merely a movement, m'dear. It's practically a Crusade!” Ang corrected her.

“If Eonwe doesn't show today I'm voting FO RHIM tomorrow unless a really good case for someone else is presented”, Roa proclaimed. They all looked around, but Eonwe was nowhere to be seen.

“How gajopyiferous”, Ang commented.

---------------------

I’m not going to watch this kinslaying-thing go forwards anymore! The case with the Teleri was enough, Eonwe thought during the morning, as the Elves were accusing each other ever more louder. Silently he crept outdoors and breathed the fresh cold air. He wandered to the shore and stood there alone for a time. He had decided already. He had made his decision. Slowly he took the steps needed to reach the water and fell to the embrace of the chilly seas. He let the currents take him to wherever they would.

No tale tells his fate.

-----------------------

In the end, the suspicion of Naria was quite mutual. The accusation “too quiet, must die” came from many directions.

Naria listened to the accusations piling up on her. She was pale, but remained calm outside. Inside, she was torn, and there was no trace of calmness there. I deserve this, she thought. I deserve this for what I did to Lalaith. And to Kitanna. And to Thinlómien and Nogrod. I deserve to die. I don’t want to live with this.

“It’s Naria then. She must die”, Valier voiced the inevitable. By that time, Naria was already running.

“Where is she?” Firefoot asked, worried.
“She’s running away!” the phantom yelled, seeing her through the window.
Desperately the Elves ran after her, weapons in their hands.

But Naria was already out of their reach. As she ran, she began to transform. Her skin grew black and white feathers, her legs shortened making it more difficult for her to run, and her nose turned into a beak. Wholly transformed, she reached the gorge Boromir had been dumped into. He had been the Rockhopper. And she was the Chinstrap.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/Thinlomien/werepenguins/wwjchinstrap-penguin.jpg

She gave one final glance to her fellow elves. With her small right wing, she waved goodbye. Then she cast herself to the abyss.

~ The Dead ~
Nogrod - a troubadour, singer – mod, blowed up in the Big Bang on Night1
Thinlómien - a troubadour, harpist – mod, blowed up in the Big Bang on Night1
Boromir88 - The Mouth of Turgon – werepenguin, cast into a gorge on Day1
Kitanna - servant who empties and cleans chamber pots – ranger, body and soul separated by Cartesian Dualism on Night2
JennyHallu - An Embroiderer, lost, not related – cobbler, shot dead in to the sea on Day2
Lalaith - Aredhel's tutoress – seer, blinded, mutilated and torn apart by the Owl of Minerva on Night3
Eonwe - Turgon's herald - ordo, lost in the waves of the dark sea on Day3
Naria - Family's goat herder - werepenguin, driven into a gorge by her consicience on Day3

~ The Living ~
Anguirel - Lalwende's semi-canonical lutenist and Findis's demi-canonical flautist
dancing spawn of ungoliant - animals' dung cleaning specialist
Diamond18 - Dimwë the half-wit second cousin of Elenwë
Encaitare - A standard-bearer
Firefoot- Aredhel's friend
Macalaure - Turgon's nephew and part-time-repentant kinslayer
the phantom - Ecthelion's hotheaded nephew and personal squire
Roa_Aoife - Elenwë's personal guard
Valier - Elenwe's personal chamber maid


Night4 has now begun.

Emperor, send your pick to Nogrod.

[Nogrod]

“Saatanan tunarit!” the Master cursed in a secret tongue only the Maiar lured by Melkor knew. Then he switched to Quenya: “Fools! Idiots! Petty songbirds! How could you fail me? How could you?” The Emperor knew it was wiser not to answer at all.
“Those little bastards! They failed me. I should have chosen someone else!” the Master raged. Then he turned to the Emperor again, his eyes flaming: “Don’t you dare to fail me too.”
“I will die for your cause, Master”, the Emperor swore gravely, its head bent down.
“That is not enough, you swatter! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries!” the Master went on. “You must not die. You must make them die. Understood?”

-----------------

One of the Elves awoke that Night to a small click that came from his door. He jumped up just to see the Emperor penguin turning to face him. He reached for his sword and was just turning to defend himself when he heard the low and friendly voice of the penguin. The Emperor didn’t look especially frightening, standing there remarkably shorter than the tall elf.

“What are you thinking at the moment, kinslayer?” it asked innocently.
“You dare to call me kinslayer, you Dress Coat Demon! I at least repent it part-time! Mind you, I’m thinking of beheading you with my sword right now”, Macalaure flared up.
“Before you go on with it, could you just reflect it, to show me that you can?” the Emperor asked calmly and looked him in the eye.
“What are you talking about, werecreature? Do you find your death a fun thing? I have killed my own kin, so surely I wouldn’t hesitate to kill a mere bird”, Macalaure declared, emphasising his words by raising his sword.
“So, if you are thinking about beheading me, can you also become conscious of the fact that you are thinking about beheading me?” the Emperor queried in a peaceful tone.
“Of course you stupid bird! It’s called self-reflectivity. It’s something that divides the beings with fëa from those that do not have one. It’s like you yourself looking at your thoughts from above. Even the children know this... and we have been assuming you to be intelligent!” Macalaure answered without hiding the sarcasm.
“Well can you then become conscious about yourself being conscious of your thought of killing me?” the penguin asked carelessly, like in passing.
“Surely I can!” Macalaure snapped back. “What are you after, you foul creature?”
“I don’t believe you if you don’t try and prove it”, the Emperor grinned thinly.
“Okay, I’ll show you”, Macalaure lowered his sword and thought about the act of killing the penguin. Quite immediately he became conscious about thinking it. And pretty easily he managed then to become conscious of this reflective stance to the original thought of killing the penguin. “Ha! It wasn’t even difficult. So what about it?” he asked, raising his sword again.
“Well, if you can reflect your self-reflection, could you also reflect that reflectivity over your self-reflection?” the Emperor answered with a question, now already smiling as wide as one can smile with a beak, “Or could you even be looking from the outside your reflection on your reflectivity over your self-reflection?”
“Erm... You mean to see myself becoming conscious of being conscious of seeing myself thinking something?”
“You can put it that way if you wish. But just before you try, think also, which one of these is your innermost self or the “I” that you yourself are? How deep will you have to go to actually find it?” the Emperor tried to hold an earnest expression on its face, but it was difficult. It giggled (only think of what a giggling penguin would look like and you just might have the correct impression).

Macalaure was now getting deeper and deeper into the layers of himself, slowly drowning further and further away from the here and now. At the same time his brain started to heat, no, it started to overheat from the thoughts leading to infinity. He was absorbed into a kind of Reverse Total Perspective Vortex that sent him spiralling down to the infinity of himselves always eluding him no matter how deep he got. It didn’t take long before Macalaure’s brains exploded. The boiling hot blood sprinkled all over his room and the headless body dropped to the floor.

The Emperor had already drawn back to its room by then. Nice things these vicious regressions that play with infinity, it thought before it fell asleep, being careful not to attempt the same thought-experiment itself.

(WARNING: Kids, do not try this at home.)

---------------------

When the Elves once again assembled in the corridor the next morning, they were so delighted to see the phantom alive against all expectations that they all ran to embrace him. The phantom was generally cool about it, but in the end he had to admit: “Well, I guess it’s better to be embraced by a bunch of droll Elves than sliced by a dreadful avian monster.”

“I think we still have lost one of our number”, Encaitare remarked, counting the heads. A gloomy silence fell upon the joyous Elves. “Macalaure’s missing...”

Spawn was standing near the door of Macalaure’s room and pulled it open. There was blood all over the tapestry and the headless body of Macalaure was lying at the floor. “You don’t want to see this, but he’s here”, spawn said. She closed the door. “Rest in peace, Mac”, she whispered.

That rest was not granted. Kitanna’s bruised body appeared from behind the corner.
“Oh no, it has broken free”, the chambermaid Valier sighed.
“Oh Eru, look at its condition”, Firefoot said, her quiet voice almost trailing off.
“We should have tied it up better”, Roa muttered as the zombie tumbled against Macalaure’s door and hit its head for the thousandth time. Kitanna’s living corpse looked very bad indeed.

They took Kitanna’s soulless body downstairs with them and tied it up again. “I can take care of her, as I outwit her”, Dimwë the half-wit promised solemnly.

“Breakfast-time. Breakfast. Now. Breakfast now”, they heard a cheerful voice from above them.
“Oh, shut up, silly bird”, said Anguirel bitterly.

~ The Dead ~
Nogrod - a troubadour, singer – mod, blowed up in the Big Bang on Night1
Thinlómien - a troubadour, harpist – mod, blowed up in the Big Bang on Night1
Boromir88 - The Mouth of Turgon – werepenguin, cast into a gorge on Day1
Kitanna - servant who empties and cleans chamber pots – ranger, body and soul separated by Cartesian Dualism on Night2
JennyHallu - An Embroiderer, lost, not related – cobbler, shot dead in to the sea on Day2
Lalaith - Aredhel's tutoress – seer, blinded, mutilated and torn apart by the Owl of Minerva on Night3
Eonwe - Turgon's herald - ordo, lost in the waves of the dark sea on Day3
Naria - Family's goat herder - werepenguin, driven into a gorge by her consicience on Day3
Macalaure - Turgon's nephew and part-time-repentant kinslayer – ordo, brains exploded after entering a vicious regression concerning the possible infiniteness of self-reflective consciousness on Night4

~ The Living ~
Anguirel - Lalwendë's semi-canonical lutenist and Findis's demi-canonical flautist
dancing spawn of ungoliant - animals' dung cleaning specialist
Diamond18 - Dimwë the half-wit second cousin of Elenwë
Encaitare - A standard-bearer
Firefoot- Aredhel's friend
the phantom - Ecthelion's hotheaded nephew and personal squire
Roa_Aoife - Elenwë's personal guard
Valier - Elenwë's personal chamber maid

Day4 begins now.

[Roa_Aoife]

*blinkblink* I was afraid of this....

The lack of phantom guts adorning the place means one of two things- either Valier is a wolf and didn't want to be killed last night, or the last wolf wants us to think that and lynch her.

Quite the cunumdrum, indeed.

I went through Naria's posts- as you can imagine, there wasn't much to be found. She seemed to go along with other people's votes, and never said anything certain herself, except for the one list of players. I'm going to go back through and look at it.

With Naria dead, and it being unlikely that Boromir would list to of his fellow penguins in the same group, I'm going to let the Firefoot case go. Fow now. That may just narrow things down significantly.

[the phantom]

Well, well. The Penguin decided to let me live, eh?

Well, since I'm still here, I have a request.

I had a neat little idea towards the end of yesterday that I think might yield some interesting results. Don't worry- it's not some kooky plan. It is merely a method for accusations and defenses that I thought could help make everyone's thoughts very clear, and help me make my Hunter pick tonight.

So if you would, DON'T VOTE or go crazy with lists and such until later today, when I'm back and have explained my plan. I don't have time now. I'm running late for class. I'll be back in five hours or sooner, so we'll still have plenty of time.

Thanks.

[Valier]

*Sigh* well this is just great!:rolleyes: Why, oh why, in the world Anguirel would you pick Mac instead of me? ........Oh did I say Ang? Yep that's right! I figured it was time I started .....what did Ang call it?.....Oh yeah a Valier style campaign.

I just knew this was going to happen..and it sucks! I was actually hoping the Phantom would get killed and then I would be a proven innocent and have some sway in getting Ang killed today. But since that didn't work, I still will stand by my suspicions of him. I will try my darnedest to find useful and insightful info today.

Oh and Phantom? You did have some sort of a plan worked out for if you didn't die right? :D

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

“Saatanan tunarit!” :D :D :D


Well, having phantom still around is nice although it was somewhat predictable.

The obvious conclusion of this is that Valier is the last penguin and she didn't want to get killed by the hunter. Another option is that this was an attempt to frame her up.


Again, I'm suspicious of Ang. In addition to what I've said earlier, I think the way Boro spoke about him looks like an avian alliance.

"Anguirel, has popped in couple, said his say, nothing strange there." ~Boro #33

"At first it seemed to me like Anguirel was going off with what he had at the time, but good points have been raised against him. I'm going to hold off until he gets back." ~ Boro #46

Ang's vote from Day 1 looks quite suspicious as he changed it from Eonwe to Kitanna giving her a second vote after Boro had got his first one. Then, of course, there was the incident when Ang defended Boromir against Roa, but I don't know how much that tells.

Here's what Naria (#298) said about Ang.

"Anguirel- Hmmm he's a tuff one to understand. I don't like the way that he is being so pushy with his posts especially towards people that I don't find particularly evil right now. Quite frankly some of his posts don't make any sense at all and that doesn't sit well with me."

It's notable, though, that she didn't say anything very precise about anyone.

Here's what Anguirel (#308) said about Naria.

"Naria-till recently, no evidence, really, except vague kudos for, in the end, acting to save Lalaith. Recently analysis which still doesn't reveal much, but does show complete trust in...Diamond! Argh! It's a conspiracy! Also accuses me of making no sense. How gajopyiferous."

Like Boromir, Ang speaks quite positively about her considering that she had barely spoken. YesterDay Ang voted for Enca, and refrained from commenting on people voting for Naria even though he was around till the end. I can imagine Anguirel as the emperor penguin, and right now he's my main suspect although I wish to look closer at other villagers, too.


edit: cross-posted with... everyone

[Roa_Aoife]

And another one! I'll be back soon with a cross-check between Boromir and Naria

Naria says:

Trusts

Diamond
Mac
Phantom (duh)
Valier

Unsure

Enca
Firefoot

Suspicious

Ang
Spawn
Eonwe
Roa


Other's Say

Trust

No one

Unsure

Roa
Ang
Firefoot

Suspicious

Valier
Phantom
Spawn
Enca

Doesn't mention (that I can find on Day 3)

Mac
Eonwe
Diamond

Cross-overs

Suspicious

Spawn

[Roa_Aoife]

Boromir and Naria

Mutually Suspected

Ang
Roa

Mutally Trusted

Mac
Valier

Mutually Unsure

Enca
Firefoot

Were opposites on

Eonwe
Spawn

Edit: Forgot the last part

Differed on (but were not opposite)

Diamond
phantom

[Firefoot]

Well, I don't know how the rest of you are thinking, but I still suspect Valier. Strongly. Even without the issue of the phantom's not-death, look at Valier's posts: she's been suspecting Naria almost straight from the beginning and for no apparent reason - after Naria had posted just once, Valier names her in post 68 as one of her three choices for wolves. And I know this was just a jesting first-post-of-the-game, but even there Naria is named as "definitely bad." Why, I ask you? My conclusion is that it is likely because Valier is a wolf who was trying to make herself look good by slandering Naria.

[Roa_Aoife]

Looking at theses lists, something occurred to me. If we assume that Boromir didn't list his fellows together, we can remove the remaining people from Boromir's "unsure list." After also removing the dead and the knowns, that leaves four suspects: Spawn, Valier, Ang, and myself. So I went back through my lists and removed all but us four. Here's how we line up:

People Boromir Suspected

Roa
Ang

People Boromir thought innocent

Valier
Spawn

----------------------------------------------------

Naria says:

Suspicious

Ang
Spawn
Roa

Trusts

Valier

----------------------------------------------------

Mutually Suspected

Ang
Roa

Mutally Trusted

Valier

Were opposites on

Spawn

EDIT: NOTE This is purely based on the assumption that Boromir did not list his fellow wolves together. This is only an assumption, as we do not know this for certain.

[Roa_Aoife]

I suppose a question must now be asked- would Boromir and Naria agree or disagree about their companion? If so, would they agree on suspicion or trust?

[Valier]

Firefoot I understand that I look very suspicious right now because of the actions of our dead Penguins. When the game first started I made a list of people who I thought could be baddies. I do this with every game. So right off the bat, I thought Naria, Ang, Boromir were definite baddies. After the actions of Boromir the first day, I thought he could be the seer and he knew of my innocence, so that is why I didn't vote for him that day, but I did suspect him. Naria has a reputation for being a Werewolf ninja and I thought it a good chance she was evil. Now Ang is super smart and crafty and I am certain he is the last remaining, so called Emperor Penguin. Jenny was a complete surprise to me though!! If I must die today to prove my innocence I will, even though I would really love to lynch the last bad guy and finally make it to the end of a game for the first time.

[Valier]

I would also like to add to your analysis of Naria's post's Roa this...





Valier- She's another hard one to read. I do want to mention, however that she can be quite the asset in a village with her uncanny ability for WW spotting.



So it seems right here she is saying that I was right in my suspects? I thought her evil and she was, I did at first think Boro was evil and he was...was she saying I was right in all my suspects ie.Ang? or do you think this is a trick to divert me?

[Roa_Aoife]

For the sake of being thorough, I'm going to go back and get quotes about each of these players from our known wolves. As I am one of the people on the list, please, go back and check me. It's your duty. Be an informed voter!

If I have time, and am sufficiently bored, I'll go back and get our quotes on each other. Mostly because it's wednesday, and I have nothing to do.

Edit: Cross posted- I'm going to requote that anyways. :P

[Firefoot]

Naria has a reputation for being a Werewolf ninja and I thought it a good chance she was evil. This makes no logical sense. She has been a crafty were...thing before, so of course she is one now. Your suspicions of her had no bearing whatsoever to the game at hand. That's why I'm suspicious of you.Now Ang is super smart and crafty and I am certain he is the last remaining, so called Emperor Penguin. Being smart does not make someone a penguin. (Hate to say it, but...) Look at phantom. He makes a brilliant werecreature. That certainly doesn't make him one now.was a complete surprise to me though!! Well, duh, not even the wolves know who the cobbler is...

If it's not Valier, I would guess Spawn or Eonwe, who I think is more unlikely because like Roa I think it is likely that Boro did not put both wolves in the same list. I suppose next would be Ang, mostly for lack of other suspects.

[Firefoot]

Valier:So it seems right here she is saying that I was right in my suspects? Why the heck would a wolf say something like that? "Hey look, Valier, you're suspecting Ang, and you're right! Ang's one of my fellow wolves! Gold star for you!" I find it entirely more likely that she was bluffing.

[Roa_Aoife]

First, Firefoot - Eonwe is dead. He can't be a penguin.

And now the quotes:

Boromir quotes (borrowed from phantom because I am both bored and lazy)

Valier

Valier and Eonwe are acting too strange to be evil penguins.

Like I said before I doubt wp's would be this eccentric and wild in the beginning. So for now there's no reason to suspect Valier.

Spawn

Spawn backs up and says she was going to say something like the phantom, for everyone to just leave clues on who they feel is innocent. Seems a little fishy to me...trying to associate yourself with an innocent perhaps?

Most of them I already explained why they appear innocent before. Spawn for her input on Anguirel she seems innocent. I don't know yet what to make of Anguirel, but Spawn's input is beneficial, helpful, and usually I don't suspect the one's who announce stronger suspicions this early. For it's a bold move for a WP to stick their neck out and first really start the suspicions.

Ang

Anguirel, I must say Spawns comments were very intriguing on Anguirel. At first it seemed to me like Anguirel was going off with what he had at the time, but good points have been raised against him. I'm going to hold off until he gets back.

Roa

I can't find much significance in Roa's, phantom's, or Diamond's, posts yet, so there's nothing for me to go off of.

Roa there is a common misconception about theories, everyone seems to think it's just baseless and preposterous. Now a true theory is a hypothesis based UPON facts. So, the facts are sitting out there and then based on those facts you form a hypothesis which = theory. And for everybody except the wps and the Seer all we have to find the penguins are theories. Which means taking facts, like what people say, how they vote, who's killed...etc taking that knowledge and using it to present a hypothesis that is backed up by facts (aka a theory).

Roa has come in established a presence in the village, but really hasn't if you know what I mean. Also, as I remarked before I don't agree with the "don't throw around theories or baseless arguments," and what do I propose you want us to do to catch a penguin miss Guardian?

Roa's acts are strange but it actually in a wierd way makes her look more innocent to me. She's just being far too aggressive

Naria's quotes

Valier

Valier- She's another hard one to read. I do want to mention, however that she can be quite the asset in a village with her uncanny ability for WW spotting.

Spawn

Spawn- I don't know. She hasn't been playing like she normally does, maybe it's due to RL but maybe not. I would expect alot more from her by now and that just hasn't happened yet. Another one that isn't sitting well with me.

++Spawn

She has been acting off her game and it worries me. I just have expected more from her.

Ang

Anguirel- Hmmm he's a tuff one to understand. I don't like the way that he is being so pushy with his posts especially towards people that I don't find particularly evil right now. Quite frankly some of his posts don't make any sense at all and that doesn't sit well with me.

Roa

Roa- Is evil! HA....I jest of course. But, I don't trust her nonetheless....I don't know if I ever will. She's crafty beyond belief. If there is one person that can pull off a septuple bluff, I'm sure Roa could do it with ease.

[Firefoot]

First, Firefoot - Eonwe is dead. He can't be a penguin. Don't I feel dumb. :rolleyes: I forgot to take him off the list I'm using.

What I noticed about the quotes: both Naria and Boro were quite brief on Valier (from what you listed). In Naria's comments, Valier is the only one she presents as innocent...

[Valier]

Like I said before if I must die today I will!!! But I am not the Penguin!!!! I have no reasons I am sure that will satisfy anyone as to why I suspect Ang...I just do o.k,another one of my gut feelings, so if you want to kill me go ahead! But make sure Ang the super,pushy,ober,faker,WerePenguin dies after I am gone.

[Roa_Aoife]

Valier quotes

On Spawn:

dancing spawn of ungoliant - Eww she cleans up poo!..I'll keep my eyes on her.

I think the points Spawn made about Ang were sound and having played with Ang before I know he is a very compatent werecreature.

On Roa:

Roa_Aoife - She's for sures the E.W. .....Oh ya I mean she's SO bad!!

Roa I don't like your comment here
Quote:


You seem to be assuming my innocense- a dangerous thing to do in this game.
I think saying this is just as dangerous. You seem to be quite defensive today of all days, why? I know you usually bicker with other players over stuff (which is fine) but like I said today? you are making yourself seem more and more suspisious.

Roa that is exactly the reason I put Firefoot on my list of suspects today! I could not quite find the words to express what I meant, but you did it beautifully.

On Ang:

Anguirel -He's a sneaky one and I wouldn't put it passed him. He is a little well.... birdy.

Ok so on my list of potential WP's I have Anguirel, Naria, phantom.
I think the points Spawn made about Ang were sound and having played with Ang before I know he is a very compatent werecreature. I know for a fact that he will still attack and argue and banter even if he is a baddie which makes him dangerous.

++Anguirel

I think his push for Kitanna is odd and his remark about being the unwitting cobbler are also odd. Ang is a smart guy and I find his playing to be a little over zealous for the first day.

I voted for Ang yesterday because my gut tells me he is a baddie. I would not have changed my vote from him at all, but Lalaith came out and told us Boro was a WP so since I was around of course I would change my vote to help the village. My suspects as of late are....Anguirel, Naria, Mac

Ok Ang I get it now. I still find the way you are pushing for people to get lynched is a little cobbleresque. I know you at least a little, to know that you are more than capable at rallying people to your cause. You seem to be acting mostly like yourself, but more pushy... I think it odd.

Ang would you rather I just call you a Penguin? Would that make you feel better?

My voting has not been off. I voted for Ang because I think he is a WP, why else do you vote for someone.

I really feel the need to vote with my gut again today so it will be either

Anguirel
Firefoot
Naria

in that order of suspicion...I still think Ang has been really off this whole game and his switch in voting is odd. He is pushing for all the people that I think are innocent, so it will probably be him......I'll be back shortly.

Why, oh why, in the world Anguirel would you pick Mac instead of me? ........Oh did I say Ang? Yep that's right! I figured it was time I started .....what did Ang call it?.....Oh yeah a Valier style campaign.

I just knew this was going to happen..and it sucks! I was actually hoping the Phantom would get killed and then I would be a proven innocent and have some sway in getting Ang killed today. But since that didn't work, I still will stand by my suspicions of him. I will try my darnedest to find useful and insightful info today.

Now Ang is super smart and crafty and I am certain he is the last remaining, so called Emperor Penguin.

I have no reasons I am sure that will satisfy anyone as to why I suspect Ang...I just do o.k,another one of my gut feelings, so if you want to kill me go ahead! But make sure Ang the super,pushy,ober,faker,WerePenguin dies after I am gone.

[the phantom]

All right, I'm back.

I'll be posting a voting analysis later (two hours from now probably, three at most).

After that, I'll be doing a Boro & Naria quote analysis.

But for now, a couple things.

First, it's fine to talk about and analyze suspects, but don't allow yourself to become overly focused on Valier. Yeah, yeah, she could be the final Penguin I know. Maybe after my vote analysis and such she'll end up among my top suspects again, but you'll notice that yesterday I removed her from my list of names I was willing to vote for. I'm not as suspicious of her as I was two days ago. I Hunted her last night not because I thought she was for sure the most likely Penguin, but largely because I thought knowing the truth about her would help you guys more than anything else.

And on that note, here is a little thing I want EVERYONE to participate in. I call it- "think like a gifted".

I want all of you to think about which person you would hunt if you were the Hunter. Post your thoughts and selections.

Then I want you all to say who you would protect if you were the Ranger, and why (I am not an option, as you know me to be innocent already).

Doing these things will yield a clear declaration of suspicion and trust for at least one person by everyone in the village. It's fine to have secondary suspects, but I want everyone to come out and say, BEFORE the voting starts, who your first and last people are on your suspicion list. Once the voting starts, it's so easy to vote for your #2 suspicion if he/she is already attracting votes, and so it is never clear that that person was not in fact your #1 suspect because you had been listing them as pretty much even with your other primary suspect all day.

I'm doing this partially to keep our final Penguin from going whichever way the wind is blowing and such. I want a #1 suspect (Hunter pick) and #1 friend (Ranger pick) from everyone. So many Wolves over past games have survived by managing to stay... how should I say it... non-commited.

Also, and quite importantly, I will factor your picks into making my nightly pick.

And I don't want any whining from you. As your last proven innocent and dedicated Hunter, I think you owe me a little something. I mean- I am willing to die for you after all! :p

[Firefoot]

If I were the Ranger, I'd probably pick Diamond. The general consensus seems to be that she's probably innocent (at least, she hasn't come under much suspicion); I think she's probably innocent, anyway. I would not pick Ang or Valier because of the suspicion they've been under. My hunter pick would probably be Valier. (surprise, surprise.) Then probably Spawn or Ang. Not Diamond or Encai, and probably not Roa.

Tomorrow (RL), I promise I'll try to "zero-out" on Valier and at least look at some other people. But I feel so paranoid about her right now, it would almost be a relief for her not to be in the village. I would feel like I could actually concentrate on other people honestly (if she's not a wolf, of course).

[Valier]

Alright Phantom.....I would pick Roa-Aoife for my Ranger pick and for my Hunter pick I would pick Anguirel. But I wouldn't doubt it if Ang doesn't pick the Phantom to kill, again tonight. Why would he? So instead of picking him tonight for your hunter pick I say we lynch him today and if all my suspicions are wrong and he is an Ordo and not the Emperor I will commit suicide and vote for myself the next day.

[Roa_Aoife]

Ack! Sorry, got called away. I'm going to finish my quote postings now. Next up is Spawn.

[Roa_Aoife]

Spawn speaks

About Valier:

As has been pointed out, it was funny how Valier right away said that Boro is definitely a WP. She suspected almost everyone else, too, but didn't directly say them to be WPs. Enca was the only one that Valier didn't accuse right away, but said that she doesn't know if Enca is guilty or not.

All in all, by reading Valier's posts I think she is usually more independent. She makes decisions based on gut feelings, states whom she suspects and votes. Now she seems to be trying to sway and take contact with other villagers more.

The obvious conclusion of this is that Valier is the last penguin and she didn't want to get killed by the hunter. Another option is that this was an attempt to frame her up.

About Roa:

Roa has posted only once, and even though I could have made a case out of that, I wanted to see if there would be something funny in her other posts, too, or if it was just a first post thing before I accuse her.

It's interesting, too, that Boromir refrained from giving his thoughts about Roa in that post, but just explained what a theory is. Right now Roa isn't very high in my suspicion list, though.

About Ang:

All in all, Ang has been more, well, not necessarily flip-floppy, but careful than what I would have thought. I don't get the usual innocent feeling when reading his posts, and having no certain opinion about anything looks penguinesque, so I look forward to his future posts.

Anguirel, you are far from a bore, you know that, but that wasn't the point. Also, not everything I write is meant to accuse. This, for example...

Now that Ang has started talking again, my suspicions of him have partly returned, but considering how Boro acted regarding him makes me hesitate.

Again, I'm suspicious of Ang. In addition to what I've said earlier, I think the way Boro spoke about him looks like an avian alliance.

[Valier]

I just realized that I didn't post any reasons for my picks so I thought I would do it now. Ok to me Roa seems innocent. She has been helpful and I just get the feeling she is an ordo. So I would not vote for her and if I were the ranger I would pick her to protect. As for Ang, he has pushed for either known gifteds or people who I think are Ordos. His lack of evidence has been low and he states over and over the person he wants to kill and out loud hopes others will follow.Also Ang's post #317 is very odd as his vote for Enca. Why would he want to try and start a Enca bandwagon, instead of just voting for Diamond like he said he was going to?

[Roa_Aoife]

As this is me, I fully expect people to go back and check that I'm being accurate about myself. In fact, it'd be best if someone looked and came back on with a "Yeah, it's all clear," or a "No, you left this out."

Roa quotes

Valier

While I don't trust Valier any more than the rest of you (excluding phantom), I would like to point out that Valier never has distinct reasons for finding someone suspicious, and always goes by gut instinct. Always. And she's frighteningly accurate with her gut instincts. So, if you're looking for something to condemn her with, that ain't gonna cut it. Now, her changing her mind suddenly about someone is something worth mentioning, since I've never known her to give up a pursuit once she's after someone.

Even if Boromir wasn't planning to die, such a connection is incredibly obvious. He had to be aware of the possibility of his death, and know that this owuld be looked at later. It seems like an attempt to point a big finger at Valier. From this alone, I would say no.

The major flaw in Firefoot's attack on Valier is this- her whole case is based on the assumption the Valier is a penguin. There isn't a single piece of solid, unbiased evidence in it. It's all speculation, which is no case at all. Phantom's case against Valier had facts in it; Diamond's case against Vailer had facts in it. Firefoot's case is sorely lacking these, and that is something I know she isn't known for doing when innocent.

And, really, attacking Valier because she used her gut is like attacking anyone for playing the same way they usually do. Sure it could be a great cover, but that doesn't mean it is.

Spawn

I think he was looking for people to suspect (always a problem as a wolf) and then backed off because he was leaching off her case against Ang.

Ang

And how do you know I "barking up the wrong tree?" Have you considered that I might be right? You seem to be assuming my innocense- a dangerous thing to do in this game.

Well, it started with Ang, previous to Lal's reveal, who decided to try to lynch Kitanna to save both Boromir and Lal.

Two of the people Boromir suspected are known innocents. This casts a bit of spotlight on myself and Ang. I know I'm innocent, but no one else does (except the wolves) but is Boromir the type of wolf to cast suspicion on a comrade or the kind to direct attention away from his comrades? I wouldn't be surprised if it was the former, since that's what I would do, but if it is the latter, then I'd like to be able to put Ang on my "slightly less suspicious list" since it's kind of short at the moment.

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473952&postcount=243

I would like to note that, in my own personal perspective, I hesitate to find Ang guilty. Here's why- Boromir, our known wolf, put him in the most suspected list with Lal, Kitanna, and myself. We know that Lal and Kitanna are innocent, and I know I'm innocent. Given Boromir's past behavior concerning his fellow wolves, it would seem unlikely that he would put him on the suspected list if he were actually a wolf.

However, I do know that several players like to "change it up" a bit when repeating a role, and Boromir may have changed his play. That's why I'm not ruling Ang out.

It seems more like Boromir was jumping onto a good looking case.

[Diamond18]

Alright, first of all, I'm dead tired. I've been up since 6:30 AM and was at work blah blah blah so I'm listing to the side, as it were.

Strange as I feel about this, I could almost echo Valier's feelings on Ang at the moment. I have been thinking of Ang as more or less innocent for a few days, and when I question myself as to what my chief reason is, it is pretty much only because of where he falls on the List of What Boro Said. Much as I think it's a good theory and has so far proven true, not good enough reason to keep giving Ang a free pass in my mind. Free passes lead to ignoble deaths.

I had wanted to do an actual analysis of Ang's posts today (or, overNight) but I never did. The one thing that is making me leery of him is his obsession with me. Although so charmingly put, with the Audreyfication and all, I really don't understand his need to find everything I say suspicious even if he admits it's not in and of itself suspicious. So, apparently, earlier I was suspicious for being too Dimwë, and lately I've been suspicious for making too much sense. Either Ang is really stubborn in his belief that I'm a penguin, or is a penguin who doesn't know when to give up on a framing. This is my reason to want to take a closer look at Ang. At this moment I can't find it in my logical self to vote for him for this, because I realize that I always find anyone who goes after me to be suspicious, so someone who goes after me and practically begs the the rest of the village to do so as well....

But, I think I would Hunt him were I the Hunter. If I was the Hunter and Day was ending in the next few minutes, I would vote to lynch Valier to be sure, and if she were innocent, pick Ang to Hunt. If I were the Ranger, I would protect Roa. I've already given my opinion/prediction on Roa, so you know why.

However, that opinion may change before the Day actually ends. Right now I'm ridiculously tired and I didn't even have the energy to read over the quotes Roa has been posting much less analyze Ang or review the Day 3 posts. I also have to take into account that Spawn is still around -- and I'm not sure what Naria's vote for her yesterDay meant and I don't want to just drop her from my consciousness and get totally distracted by Ang and Valier. There's just so much to think about, and it's not my best day in this village. I'll be leaving 4 1/2 hours before the deadline tomorrow, so will be voting early. Now, I'm wondering if I should try to follow through with reviewing and analyzing tonight, just to make sure I get it done, or go to bed early in hopes of having more brainpower to do so tomorrow.

[Encaitare]

This is the current list of players left alive (just so everyone knows who their choices are for the Hunter/Ranger thing):

Valier
Diamond18
Firefoot
Roa
Phantom (innocent)
Dancing Spawn
Kitanna
Encaitare
Anguirel


If I were the Ranger, I would choose to protect Roa because I believe she is innocent (goodness, how many times have I said this? :rolleyes: ), for reasons already stated and because her work with going back and looking for all those quotes seems genuine to me.

If I were the Hunter, I would choose Anguirel or Valier because they tend to be the subjects of greatest dispute . If I had to pick one, it would be Valier -- of the two, she seems more suspicious to me.

[Roa_Aoife]

Ang's quotes

Valier

Valier's behaviour is normal and not that suspicious.

Yep. Thanks Valier, I know I can always rely on you to cheer me up.

Which is why I don't intend to seal any fates now...I'm really not convinced of the innocence or guilt of either Jenny or Valier. I would vote for Jenny before Valier, if you want my opinion, but in this case I'm sticking to my crumbling Crimean guns.

Valier-as a wolf she is a hardy lieutenant who is often quite hard to catch; for the reasons Diamond raised, that her tactics are so consistent. In this case, I'm not entirely sure. I was more willing to absolve her yesterday. The fact that Diamond was pretty much urging her to the gibbet is in my mind some kind of evidence in her favour. But there are troubles here. Her "instincts" do seem slightly affected by realpolitick-what she can realistically hope to achieve according to the fluctuations of public opinion. Hence she has laid off the generally trusted Macalaure, concentrated fire especially on me, and now, it must be said, seems to transfer some energy to Firefoot and Eonwe. Not sure, but I won't vote for her unless some of my clearer theories are derailed.

I also am still uncertain about Valier's guilt and, to be frank, think Enca's potential bandwagon one of the few able to withstand the anti Valier movement.

Spawn

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473287&postcount=44

Oh, and that stuff about dragging Spawnowen through the coals about Firefoot and Roa and then disingenuously claiming I wasn't accusing her for it is a good sighting by you, but it was, sort of, intended as a joke.

Spawnowen-is to Diamond what Diamond is to me-a pet lynching project. I think though that Diamond may have more success than I. Still, spawn is much more on the ball now. Her contribution in the case against Valier was just as important as Diamond's-am I getting it right?-so perhaps in fairness I should suspect her too, but she seems to be playing things straighter. Suspects Macalaure, seriously off the beaten path and so giving her some cred. Talking of which...

Roa

But Roa's case-as Lalaith overlooked in her relief in finding an ally, but as Boromir pointed out-is fairly flimsy, based on a contradiction that does not exist. This seems to be a genuine misunderstanding and so I am inclined to spare the rod here.

You conveniently didn't address it. Face it, you've got something wrong. There was no essential contradiction. Now please, prune your pride and have a glance elsewhere-you're really good value when you're not barking up the proverbial errant tree.

I know my performance looks like a one-track advance today, but I have also examined Roa a bit and she still seems a figure exuding fewer Machiavellian vibes.

Roa-I get the malaise when approaching her that affects me when dealing with the especially loud. Like verbal earache. But I'm going to press on. Yesterday I regarded her as next most worth an Inquisition after Diamond. She does go for elaborately documented and apparently impartial, fairminded cases. She criticises me, incidentally, for openly looking for reasons to blame people. She has a point, but that's not quite what I do, though it sometimes looks like it

[Diamond18]

As this is me, I fully expect people to go back and check that I'm being accurate about myself. In fact, it'd be best if someone looked and came back on with a "Yeah, it's all clear," or a "No, you left this out."

Well that someone won't be me, though I would if I could.

But that reminds me, Spawn you said I'd omitted something from my analysis of you. Was that an entire post or a part of a post? If I left an entire post out, it was probably just because I missed it. I thought I'd counted up all the posts I linked to and compared them to your total post count and it matched, but who knows. I think I did a lot of analysis that Day which doesn't do wonders for my accuracy. At any rate, if it ends up mattering anymore (i.e. if I vote for you) I'll be sure to figure out just where the omission was in my analysis and explain it. I have this feeling like either Valier or Ang is going to sucumb toDay, though, so it might be an academic point for toDay at least.

*sigh* Am I making any sense?

[Roa_Aoife]

Okay, that's done. I've noticed some unpleasant things while going back- Spawn's position on my many lists doesn't look very good. Also, did anyone else notice that she picked up Jenny's cobbler hint on Day 1? And Valier said something very similar about Spawn to what Boromir said about her. But you can't claim she flipped anout Ang.

Anyways.... Someone should go back and see what the four of us said about Naria and Boromir. I would, but I have to get up early for work and I will only be able to get back on a few hours before the deadline, and then for only a brief time.

And Diamond- to simplify for you, if I assume that Boromir didn't list his fellows together, then Ang, Spawn, Valier, and myself are the only possible suspects. I've posted as many stats and relevant quotes as I could find so that we all have a wealth of evidence to look through. Do so at your leisure.

If I have the time, I'll try to come up with a basic list of where the views of Naria and Boromir intersected with our views.

Alright then, hm... if I were the ranger, I'd probably protect Enca, since she's lowest on my list. I don't trust her, I just distrust her the least of evryone else. And as the hunter... well, I'm still worried about Firefoot. I'd probably hunt her, if I could. After her, Spawn, just for the sake of knowing. Certainly one of the other 3.

[Roa_Aoife]

And just because I wanted to:

Face it, you've got something wrong. There was no essential contradiction.

*blows rasberry* How 'bout them apples?! Got something wrong, eh? Tell that to Boromir's feathered corpse!

Ah, it's nice to have a moral victory.

[Diamond18]

And Diamond- to simplify for you, if I assume that Boromir didn't list his fellows together, then Ang, Spawn, Valier, and myself are the only possible suspects. I've posted as many stats and relevant quotes as I could find so that we all have a wealth of evidence to look through. Do so at your leisure.

I know -- I know what you were doing, since I read everything that wasn't a quote, and I do want to study the quotes or at least read back over the thread myself. I'm just saying that my brain is rubbish at the moment and so I can't really do anything that I wanted to and actually do it right. (The only reason I'm still sitting here is because of that annoying part of me which keeps saying, "You know you won't be any smarter in the morning and you'll probably just oversleep anyway so stay up and get to work! C'mon! Sleep is for the weak!" :rolleyes: )

[the phantom]

Yesterday's voting-

(I)=innocent, (WP)=WerePenguin

Mac (I) for Eonwe (I) ---- Eonwe (I)-1
Di for Spawn ---- Spawn-1, Eonwe (I)-1
Ang for Enca ---- Spawn-1, Enca-1, Eonwe (I)-1
Naria (WP) for Spawn ---- Spawn-2, Enca-1, Eonwe (I)-1
Spawn for Naria (WP) ---- Spawn-2, Naria (WP)-2, Enca-1, Eonwe (I)-1
Enca for Naria (WP) ---- Naria (WP)-3, Spawn-2, Enca-1, Eonwe (I)-1
tp (I) for Naria (WP) ---- Naria (WP)-4, Spawn-2, Enca-1, Eonwe (I)-1
FF for Naria (WP) ---- Naria (WP)-5, Spawn-2, Enca-1, Eonwe (I)-1
Val for Naria (WP) ---- Naria (WP)-6, Spawn-2, Enca-1, Eonwe (I)-1
Roa for FF ---- Naria WP-6, Spawn-2, Enca-1, FF-1, Eonwe (I)-1

Comments to follow in seperate post...

[the phantom]

Spawn and Naria were neck and neck early, but Naria took a solid lead after that.

Spawn and Naria voted for each other at a critical time. It made it very likely that one of them would be lynched. I've been a Werewolf with Spawn before, and I can't see her being that stupid. She would've come up with something better.

Spawn is totally off my lynch list today.

I also don't think an Enca-Penguin would boost Naria up at that point in the voting.

Firefoot is a possibility though. At that point, Naria already had a slim lead with only two votes left, and if I'm remembering right the number two vote getter at that point, Spawn, didn't look like she'd be moving up into the lead.

The same things goes for Val.

Lynching one of those two seems like a decent plan today.

I also say we put some trust in Spawn today.

[the phantom]

Here's what Naria said about various people.
Anguirel- Hmmm he's a tuff one to understand. I don't like the way that he is being so pushy with his posts especially towards people that I don't find particularly evil right now. Quite frankly some of his posts don't make any sense at all and that doesn't sit well with me.
She's acting fairly suspicious of Ang.
Spawn- I don't know. She hasn't been playing like she normally does, maybe it's due to RL but maybe not. I would expect alot more from her by now and that just hasn't happened yet. Another one that isn't sitting well with me.
She's acting somewhat suspicious of Spawn, but as I said before I'm leaving Spawn alone.
Diamond- She seems to be acting per usual. Nothing to send up red flags yet.
She's pretty much saying Di=innocent. Do you think Penguin-Naria would do that?
Enca- She has some pretty good reasoning in her posts, but I am not ready to take my eye off of her just yet.
Earlier I said that Enca's vote makes me not suspect her so much, and this comment doesn't raise a red flag.
Firefoot- I'm not sure about. She seems to be trying to give it her all, but fumbles the ball at times. Like I said....I'm not sure.
She's very wishy-washy on Firefoot. What do you think of that?
Roa- Is evil! HA....I jest of course. But, I don't trust her nonetheless....I don't know if I ever will. She's crafty beyond belief. If there is one person that can pull off a septuple bluff, I'm sure Roa could do it with ease.
I'm not sure what to make of this. I'm inclined to attribute it to events that happened in Wizard-Werewolf. Her statement definitely ends on the note that we should be wary of Roa.
Valier- She's another hard one to read. I do want to mention, however that she can be quite the asset in a village with her uncanny ability for WW spotting.
She claims Val is difficult to read, and ends on a positive note. Hmm.

[Anguirel]

You're all going to groan.

But really, everyone, why are you so quick to leap to assert the innocence of...Diamond?

She was hallowed with vague trust (the Werewolf equivalent of damning with faint praise) by Naria. Boromir also said she was more innocent than guilty. Neither of them paid special attention to her. Are we all such cynics now that the old Werewolf trick of defence by association, inference, and mild reference is forgotten? That three wolves who defend each other quietly but effectively cannot be conceived of?

She got an early vote out against Spawn, who as phantom pointed out is looking pretty rosy at the moment, which could have easily spurred off a lynching. After Boromir's death she produced the distraction of Werewolf X. She has voted for first Lalaith, our Seer (though even as a penguin she wouldn't have known that), then Valier, who I think so stubbornly misguided she can't be guilty (not unlike Farael's performance a while back) with regard to me, and to whom we owe the unmasking of Naria; then spawn, an early vote absolving her from whatever happened in the night.

As regards to accusing her for being too Dimwe and too sensible...she's not sensible, so much as influential, and on a wavelength I find myself sympathising with. This increases the danger she poses if guilty.

So, I would guard...spawn, I think, who is the next most clearly innocent after phantom in my book; and I would hunt that blasted lycan Diamond.

[the phantom]

Good thoughts, Ang.

But I have to go to bed now. I'll try to drop by in about 6 hours.

If I don't, I guarantee I'll show up about five hours before the voting deadline and stick around for a while.

[Anguirel]

Having denounced Diamond in part for her early vote, I ought to warn you that I'll probably be doing the same thing. I'm going to a Roman party tonight, setting off at 5:45. I suspect I will return to see my mangled corpse, but if you're not into attacking those who can't defend themselves you might want to consider a stay of execution.

Anyway, I'll vote at, I expect, about 4:00 o' clock. And I will try and consider other options than Diamond; it just disconcerts me that you all trust her so solidly. I'll draw up another nice, campy list with all my suspicions and theories as well, and conclude with an order of suspects for the last wolf.

I'll probably hash together a defence of myself as well, I suppose.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Generally, quotes from Boro and Naria make Firefoot look rather bad. Boro was quick to express trust in her on Day 1 in his post #14...

"Firefoot brought up useful comment on the cobbler, one which I completely forgot about, seeing as I have no remembrance of a cobbler for a very very long time now. So Firefoot I'm ok with for now, a very logical sensible person to have around."

...which is a bit odd considering that the Day just started. That was the same post where he said that Val is too strange to be a WP, but I don't know if that makes them look more innocent or guilty. Would a WP Boro proclaim his comrade innocent so early on, I wonder.

Also, her post #328 from yesterDay was interesting. Ff gave her thoughts about her voting candidates, and they all were quite vague:

"Valier: I don't know"
"Naria: (...) I don't know what to do with her"
"Encai: A lot like Valier. I don't know what to do with Encai either"
"Spawn: (...) I really don't know what to think"

It's true that she giving a fourth vote for Naria at a time when there were two votes plus her own left is a bit questionable. Firefoot's replies to Valier toDay make me wary, too, because they seem more heated that would be necessary ("Well, duh, not even the wolves know who the cobbler is (...) Why the heck would a wolf say something like that?"). I don't deny the possibility that Valier is the last penguin, but I'm not very comfortable with Ff either.


As to Ang, my impression of him hasn't changed. I'm sure an Emperor Anguirel would be capable of putting together some sound thoughts as he has done toDay, but I look forward reading more from him. One quote from Day 1, though.

"I'm not quite sure I'm so desperately guilty as charged." ~Ang #44

That's an interesting way to put it.


Hmm, Roa then. I had a dream that she was a WP, but since I'm no Seer I will happily disregard it now. She has been helpful from the beginning, and although that itself doesn't prove someone's innocence, there are plenty of more suspicious people around, too. Just one thing:

Roa, you listed yourself as a suspect of Boromir's, but at the end of the Day he seemed to lean towards your innocence. Although he said things like, "Roa, I find this act of taking things out of context and twisting really really strange did I hit a nerve?" ~ #75

...his last comments of you were:

"Roa's acts are strange but it actually in a wierd way makes her look more innocent to me. She's just being far too aggressive" ~ #85

"Roa seems more like a lost innocent than a bandwagoning penguin" ~#85


Di, it was parts of posts as I said in #304.


Now, if I had to pick the most suspicious person to hunt, I'd choose Anguirel, and I'd guard Encai because her vote makes her look rather innocent.

[Anguirel]

"I'm not quite sure I'm so desperately guilty as charged." ~Ang #44

Spawnowen, you sprightly sophist! I was talking there about boredom, not pinguescence. (That word exists, by the way. I love it.)

List et al coming when I have a breathing space.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Spawnowen, you sprightly sophist! I was talking there about boredom, not pinguescence. (That word exists, by the way. I love it.)You were? Sorry, I guess I got confused by those tortellinis. You can never tell about pasta... I didn't suspect you for not being playful enough, and since you were answering my case about you, I thought you were referring to it. Never mind then.

[Anguirel]

Okay. Let's have the list.

Valier-Since I do not think Valier's pinguescence likely, I am going to use this partly as an opportunity to rebut her charges against me. But I'll deal with her first.

Of course, if she was a penguin, Valier wouldn't have attacked phantom. Yet it does not follow that, as phantom was not attacked, Valier must be guilty. I disagree with Firefoot that her catching of Naria makes her suspicious-I think it was a brilliant and opportune guess from the viewpoint of a villager.

However, that does not change the fact that she's been wrong about everything else. She was manifestly (apart from her first, joking, post) wrong about Boromir; wrong about Eonwe and Macalaure; and quite wrong, I assure you, about me. Valier is "intuiting", which is heightened guesswork. Her actual charge levelled at me most frequently is that I'm too "pushy". As a matter of fact, this game I've been rather off the ball, detached and laid-back, as far as I can see. None of the candidates (luckily, in some cases...Kitanna) I've backed have been lynched. Noone believes my Diamond theory. I am generally regarded as a slightly spavined hermit and a penguin into the bargain. Clearly my pushiness is of a deeply esoteric, and incompetent, kind...


Now-spawn. phantom states her vote is a reassuring one and I largely agree. Her suspicion of me for a long time seems to me pretty reasonable, and I'm almost encouraged to see it flaring up again. I would be extremely surprised were she guilty and expect the penguin will munch her pretty sharpish.

Firefoot-playing a similar, but inverted, role to spawn, Firefoot has today been an outspoken defender of me and accuser of Valier. On the one hand this is a bold move for a penguin, but on the other Valier and I provide fine distraction from her-she was also under quite a lot of suspicion yesterday. Her defence of me shows a trust in my innocence that could be born of knowledge and a desire to get me onside. She's replaced Enca as my second suspect.

Enca-I had quite a lot of confidence in Lalaith's theories regarding Enca, but few agreed with me and they are now admittedly looking a good deal less possible. Enca has been known as an adept of sacrificing fellow-penguins before, but I doubt this is one of those times. I now agree that her numeracy does show a measure of dedication, though we should bear in mind the phantom's qualification. Thus, she has fallen behind Firefoot.

Diamond-see above. I really think Diamond fulfills all the criteria for a penguin's position and behaviour at this stage, and the indifference of those around me to my thoughts and their assumption of her innocence confirms my suspicions-I feel like Fea endlessly ranting about LMP in WWIII. Besides, Diamond's recent defensive switch against me fits penguin psychology once she's lost her second mate in an occurence last night she didn't witness, and can't have expected. Look at the other penguins' opinions of her. The simple answer, in my view.

Roa-Her reaction to the Naria-bandwagon-which was founded on a leap of faith and could have been as easily wrong as right-lessens my suspicions of her, and if I'm wrong about Diamond-inconceivable! Anguirel is never wrong!-I think Roa may have pinpointed, in Firefoot, the Emperor Penguin. Her approach has been comprehensive and analytical, if at times fatiguingly so. I agree with Firefoot that she is extremely unlikely to be guilty.

But...there is always a but, and a possibility. Penguin frustration at the loss of a comrade without a case, without "intellectual integrity"? What is certain is that her Firefoot vote was possibly practical in the long-term, but in the short-term quixotic, born of irritation; but this does not, to me, point to guilt in such an accomplished operator.

There. That should be the whole lot of ye.

Oh yes, and-

++DIAMOND

Should have blasted well stayed consistent and built up pressure yesterday. I doubt I'll be listened to this time, but it's worth a try.

Now I'm off. Oh, and if you do decide to lynch me, let me give one last lute performance...

[Diamond18]

After Boromir's death she produced the distraction of Werewolf X.

A distraction, you call it? Excuse moi. It was Roa I believe who first requested knowledge of how Boro as a wolf played. It was tp who posted PM's from WWX. I read through the game and brought up posts that showed exactly how he behaved in relation to his fellow wolves, and pointed out the similarities to this game. If that's a distraction, as you're calling it, I must be completely wrong about where Boro would have placed his wolves in his suspicions, ergo either you or Roa are definitely wolves. Yes? And between the two of you, I know exactly who to vote for:

+ + ANGUIREL, the Cod-Rhyming PENGUIN

If not Ang, then Valier, I think, because an innocent Valier usually isn't that wrong about people.

I'm going to try and cram some more reading in to see if there's any reason I should retract before heading off to work.

[Roa_Aoife]

Roa, you listed yourself as a suspect of Boromir's, but at the end of the Day he seemed to lean towards your innocence. Although he said things like, "Roa, I find this act of taking things out of context and twisting really really strange did I hit a nerve?" ~ #75

When I said he found me suspicious on Day, he had found me suspicious. He didn't back off untill I pressed my attack on him. Also, thankyou for the quotes from Boromir. I got all the Boromir quotes that I posted from phantom's post #251 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473966&postcount=251) .

I'm curious- is anyone else giving credence to my idea, or do you all think I've completely lost it now and I'm getting far too deep in these whole analysis thing? I realize it may be tedious to read through (just think how tedious it was to get it) but I really do think it will help. I'm going to use the little time I have right now to make a list of where the suspicion and trust crossed between everyone.

If you want the quotes I'm using for this list, you'll have to go back and see for yourself, since I don't have time. All the crossing will obviously be up till time of death.

[Roa_Aoife]

Also, has anyone come up with an idea why it was Mac killed in phantom's place?

[Diamond18]

Okay, I've read and re-read all the quotes that have been posted toDay, and here's my feelings:

Ang - Still think there's something avian about that boy. If he is, I'll be somewhat disappointed because it will prove wrong my theory that Boro stayed true to form and put one Penguin in the "innocent" category and one in the "unsure" category. I guess I don't mind his case against me so much as the constant whinging that no one believes him and everyone trusts me and I'm weilding an inordinate amount of influence in the village. Puh. Leeze. This isn't even close to being true. There's also that odd statement to Roa on Day 1 -- backing Boro. His vote record isn't stunning, either.

Spwan -- I don't really agree with tp that Spawn and Naria wouldn't cross vote for each other. It's not stupid, it's bluffing. Sometimes bluffs work, sometimes they don't, doesn't make one stupid for trying. However I'm willing to hold off on her for toDay at least. I found it interesting to note that Naria thought me innocent and then bandwaggoned onto my Spawn vote, which if Spawn is innocent smacks of a framing of the Di should Spawn have died. Hmmm, who else wants to frame me this game, oh yeah, Ang!

Valier -- I find her posting as of late less suspicious, really. Is this a good sign for Val or a bad one? :rolleyes: However, if Ang proves innocent then Valier's crusade against him will send her right back up there in my suspicions.

Roa -- So far I feel innocent. It is strange however to note that Boro actually described her as his "innocent" at the end of the day and she's been putting herself on "people Boro suspected" lists. If Ang, Spawn, and Valier all died innocent, would it be too late to start worrying about Roa?

Firefoot -- I don't really see the suspiciousness, actually. She's been a bit snappish, but then I remember an Innocent Firefoot giving an Innocent Diamond a backhand in Innocent Diamond's first game for suspecting her on dodgy reasoning. Also, if my theory does actually hold true, then Firefoot being on the same list as Naria excuses her somewhat.

Enca -- I don't know, I'm running out of time and apparently can't remember any of the Enca related quotes now. But she does share a spot on the "unsure" list so ditto for what I said about Firefoot in that regard.

[Diamond18]

Also, has anyone come up with an idea why it was Mac killed in phantom's place?

Either Valier is a penguin and didn't want to die, or someone else is a penguin and didn't want people to be able to rule Valier out as a suspect.

And Mac was generally trusted, so a likely alternative. I thought you were next on their hit list, personally, but.....

Oh, and I forget to put this in my last post:


Spawnowen-is to Diamond what Diamond is to me-a pet lynching project.

Not even close to being true. I suspected for her one day after doing an analysis, held off voting because she wasn't around, and voted for her the next day. This hardly compares to "Diamond is Dolorous! Doesn't anyone agree with me? I disagree with her, she's evil, I agree with her, she's evil, oh woe is me won't anyone listen to my case???"

:rolleyes:

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Also, has anyone come up with an idea why it was Mac killed in phantom's place?If Val isn't the last penguin, I believe Mac was chosen because he wasn't around yesterDay and he voted for Eonwe who was removed from the village anyway, so killing him left the least trails to follow.

Back to rereading...

[Roa_Aoife]

The list I made of Boromir's supects came from post #46 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473291&postcount=46) , which is where Boromir stated his suspicion of me. After wards, I called him on his falacy, and he backpedaled quickly as my attack showed no sign of slacking off. I've counted myself as suspected by him because I was, up until he tried to cover his rear. Hence I why I put us as "mutually suspected." If you disagree, you're free to make your own list.

I have to go, and my computer just deleted the quick cross post I had made. I don't know if I'll be back by voting, so I vote now, just in case.

And Diamond, if she back handed you for a case of faulty reasoning, then should she be backhanded for her case of faulty reasoning?

++Spawn

Just on my lists she looks the worst. I haven't made an analysis of her yet, so if I get back in time, it may change.

Edit, fixed my vote

[Valier]

Having denounced Diamond in part for her early vote, I ought to warn you that I'll probably be doing the same thing. I'm going to a Roman party tonight, setting off at 5:45. I suspect I will return to see my mangled corpse, but if you're not into attacking those who can't defend themselves you might want to consider a stay of execution.

Anyway, I'll vote at, I expect, about 4:00 o' clock. And I will try and consider other options than Diamond; it just disconcerts me that you all trust her so solidly. I'll draw up another nice, campy list with all my suspicions and theories as well, and conclude with an order of suspects for the last wolf.

I'll probably hash together a defence of myself as well, I suppose .


This whole post is odd!! He tries to make us feel bad, so we don't vote for him because he will not be here....laughable! He says he will consider other options besides Dia and he doesn't! He just votes for her. and what's up with him making a "campy list? are we not to be serious?

However, that does not change the fact that she's been wrong about everything else. She was manifestly (apart from her first, joking, post) wrong about Boromir; wrong about Eonwe and Macalaure; and quite wrong, I assure you, about me. Valier is "intuiting", which is heightened guesswork. Her actual charge levelled at me most frequently is that I'm too "pushy". As a matter of fact, this game I've been rather off the ball, detached and laid-back, as far as I can see. None of the candidates (luckily, in some cases...Kitanna) I've backed have been lynched. No one believes my Diamond theory. I am generally regarded as a slightly spavined hermit and a penguin into the bargain. Clearly my pushiness is of a deeply esoteric, and incompetent, kind...

I am SURE that I am not wrong about you MR EMPEROR!!! Oh and I was not wrong about Naria either! You ? laid-back? HA you have been overly pushy!! and your vote again for Diamond is way off. Does anyone else believe her to be a penguin, but you Ang? You are grasping at straws today hey? well I guess it would be hard to come up with suspects and cases against them when you are the lone bad guy! Your Diamond bandwagon thing will not work today and you know it!! so why on earth would you not vote to actually pretend to HELP the village? YOU ARE EVIL, EVIL, EVIL!!!!!:mad:

[Valier]

uummm Roa? is that your vote? if it is it's in a quote box. I beg you please, please trust me just for today and vote to kill THE EMPEROR ANG

[the phantom]

Today, I WILL NOT be voting for-
1) Spawn
2) Enca
3) Roa
4) Ang

Spawn would be my Ranger pick for the night.

So, that means my voting choices are-
1) FF
2) Di
3) Val

My Hunter pick will probably be Valier still (haven't changed it), though I don't think I'm going to vote for her today. If she somehow ends up lynched, my pick would be FF.

The following list is just a summation of all of my feelings after reading several of my own posts in which I listed and/or analyzed voting as well as analyzing Boro and Naria's words.

Proven Innocent-
the phantom

Likely Innocent-
Spawn

Leaning towards innocent-
Enca
Roa

Up in the air-
Ang

Somewhat suspcious-
Valier
Diamond

Suspicious-
Firefoot

[Valier]

*Valier holds up various picket signs*

ANG MUST GO!!

HE IS EVIL!

DO NOT LET HIM FOOL YOU!

SAVE OUR FAIR VILLAGE!!

DIE EMPEROR DIE!!

[Encaitare]

Noone believes my Diamond theory.

Ang, if you are lynched toDay and found to be innocent, I think that people will give much more credence to your theory. Right now, it would seem that the Valier issue is more important to everyone than what would seem a personal vendetta against Diamond.

Also, has anyone come up with an idea why it was Mac killed in phantom's place?

As Diamond said... because he was generally considered innocent. The more controversial villagers who remain, the easier it is for the wolf to hide. But just in case there was something more to it, I'm going over who Mac suspected through the course of the name.

Mac - post 57: wonders why Ang voted for Eonwe when Enca was even more silent

Mac - post 97: votes for Kitanna because "Kitanna to me feels worse than Lalaith"

Mac - post 113: retracts Kitanna for Boro

Mac - post 138: says Ang, Di, and Phantom are on the top half of his suspicion list; Spawn and Valier are in the lower half. Mentions how Ang defended Boromir even though Ang said the evidence against Boro is frail.

Mac - post 182: votes for Jenny, also says that Valier seems more innocent than guilty.

Mac - post 239: votes for Eonwe. Also suspects Valier, but says the loss of an innocent Eonwe is not as severe a blow as the loss of an innocent Valier.

Aaaaand... then he dies. Seeing as he barely posted all of yesterDay, it seems that the WP chose to kill him because it would leave a cold trail. Plus, the majority of players in this game have played in many games before, and therefore would know better than, as a werecreature, to kill someone who had suspected them overNight.

Oh, total side note: I just realized now that in my post 368, Kitanna obviously should not be on that list. What with her being a zombie and us having to tie her to chairs, I forgot that she's technically dead. :rolleyes:

EDIT: Cross posted with 6 (up to and including Spawn)

[the phantom]

Here are links to some of my posts, in case it helps anyone.

DAY 1 VOTING (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473601&postcount=150)

DAY 1 VOTING ANALYSIS (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473647&postcount=162)

BORO QUOTES (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473966&postcount=251)

DAY 3 VOTING (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=474524&postcount=374)

NARIA QUOTES (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=474528&postcount=376)

[the phantom]

Wow, Val is going nuts. Is that normal? I've only seen her once.

[Encaitare]

Uh-oh, looks as though Valier has a vendetta too, now. This constant reference to him as the Emperor and the CAPSLOCK post make me uneasy, as I wasn't really aware she so vehemently believed Ang to be guilty.

So instead of picking him tonight for your hunter pick I say we lynch him today and if all my suspicions are wrong and he is an Ordo and not the Emperor I will commit suicide and vote for myself the next day.

Could be a girl on a mission, could be a WP. We've all seen werecreatures use the "oh well I am so sure I'm right, and if I'm not you can kill me" tactic. I'm sure I've used it myself. :rolleyes: The purpose of this tactic is to show the others just how convinced you are and make them think that a WP would never be so self-sacrificing.

This whole post is odd!! He tries to make us feel bad, so we don't vote for him because he will not be here....laughable! He says he will consider other options besides Dia and he doesn't! He just votes for her. and what's up with him making a "campy list? are we not to be serious?

I don't think he'd try to make us feel bad, as the absence of a player hasn't stopped us from lynching him/her before (Jenny, anyone?). The voting for Diamond... he seems pretty convinced, but that's what retractables are for. And the "campy list"... Ang hasn't been a fan of lists from the start, but I guess now he feels like he's obligated to do one.

*Valier holds up various picket signs*

ANG MUST GO!!

HE IS EVIL!

DO NOT LET HIM FOOL YOU!

SAVE OUR FAIR VILLAGE!!

DIE EMPEROR DIE!!

Okay... I know that Valier is the type to totally throw herself into a suspicion... I don't like it and have never liked it.

I have to run now... I'm sure I've cross-posted... I'll be back later.

[Firefoot]

I really don't know what to do with Valier now...

Okay, I'm going to go back and have a look at Diamond and Ang. I've been giving both of them a bit of a free ride till now, maybe I ought to make sure this wasn't possibly wrong of me.

[Valier]

Wow, Val is going nuts. Is that normal? I've only seen her once.
nuts? I like nuts! mmmmmm nuts

*scrambles to make some new protest signs*


ANG IS NUTS!! NUTS, NUTS, NUTS!

KILL, ANG NOW!

IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!

SAVE OUR VILLAGE!!

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Roa, you have largely based your thoughts on a guess that Boro did not list his two fellow penguins in a same category. I see no reason why he couldn't have done that. Also, I don't completely agree with you classifying Anguirel as Boro's suspect. To me he seems to fit better to the "unsure" group. You can of course put him in whatever category you like, but that's my view about this. I've provided these quotes before, but here they are once again.

"Anguirel, has popped in couple, said his say, nothing strange there." ~ Boro #33

"I don't know yet what to make of Anguirel, but Spawn's input is beneficial." ~ Boro #46 about why spawn looks innocent - note that he doesn't agree with me at this point

"Anguirel, I must say Spawns comments were very intriguing on Anguirel. At first it seemed to me like Anguirel was going off with what he had at the time, but good points have been raised against him. I'm going to hold off until he gets back." ~Boro #46

In the last quote Boro somewhat agrees with me, but doesn't really say that he'd be suspicious of Ang. When Anguirel did get back, Boromir didn't comment on that issue any further.

Wow, Val is going nuts. Is that normal? I've only seen her once. Last time I saw her this loud was when she was a wolf in the Wizard village, and I find her eagerness to lynch Anguirel quite worrying. This time we can be sure, though, that she's not attacking her fellow baddie trying to make herself look good...

[the phantom]

What, is Valier trying to guarantee two days of kills? If she keeps this up she will probably accomplish that.

Surely she must realize acting like this is going to make people want to be rid of her just to end it all? And if she is found innocent, we suddenly feel obligated to lynch Ang. But if we take her advice and lynch Ang and find him innocent, then we feel obligated to lynch Valier. If neither is guilty- oops.

Is that what you want, Val? You and Ang on the block? Lynch you today, and Ang tomorrow? I'll kill you today if you really want.

[Valier]

Last time I saw her this loud was when she was a wolf in the Wizard village, and I find her eagerness to lynch Anguirel quite worrying. This time we can be sure, though, that she's not attacking her fellow baddie trying to make herself look good...


*takes a quick break from protesting*


Actually I was only a WW that last day. I WAS an Ordo until then and I thought hey? why change your tactics now? that would have been really suspicious if I did that. And I was right about Roa, as I am about Ang now!! except this time the baddies don't have the option of turning me to their side. though I must say the baddies in this game have done a fair job at making me look bad. So yes I am going a little nuts and I don't care! The way Ang is reacting to my accusations is not unlike the way Roa acted when she was the EW and I accused her. I am sure Ang is the Emperor.

*goes back to picketing*

ANG IS BAD!

BAD! BAD! BAD!

EMPEROR, SHMEMPEROR !!

I'M NOT AFRAID OF BIRDS!

[Valier]

Is that what you want, Val? You and Ang on the block? Lynch you today, and Ang tomorrow? I'll kill you today if you really want.


if you like. but may I plead that you kill Ang today and me tomorrow. Just please give me the benefit of the doubt.

[Firefoot]

On Diamond:

In Naria's analysis post, Diamond is the only one that Naria really comes out and says looks innocent to her. Even Valier is basically, "I don't know, but she can be useful." Diamond "is sending up no red flags." Everyone else was somewhere between "I don't know" and "rather suspicious." This definitely caught my eye. I don't know how Naria would normally act, but I think that little idiosyncracies like this would be telling.

In Boro's first anaylsis post, he hardly mentions Diamond at all and says nothing about whether he's supsicious of her. In his much-cited post, she does appear in the same group as Naria, but I wouldn't put it past Boro to do this, I suppose... he might have figured on us guessing he would put wolves in different groups.

Diamond herself has been extremely contributive, but not very controversial in her posts. She tends to have been very fair and even-headed, even light-hearted at times. I have taken this for innocence, but now I'm starting to have doubts. She has posted enough suspicions not to be accused of neutrality, but she tends not to latch on to people, either (I'm not sure that this is really suspicious or not... I suppose that's how I normally play...). But if she were a penguin, it would explain somewhat why she has been so attached to the idea that penguins would come from different lists of Boro's.

[the phantom]

but may I plead that you kill Ang today and me tomorrow. Just please give me the benefit of the doubt.
Why does it matter? If you're sure of his guilt then why does it matter who we kill first?

If you want us to consider killing Ang first, you need to turn down the volume a bit and do a comprehensive Roa-analysis-style attack post on Boro and Naria's connection to Ang, as well as Ang's votes and words since the beginning of the village.

[the phantom]

I find Diamond's posts 384 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=474590&postcount=384) & 387 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=474602&postcount=387) interesting.

She is basically trying to set up two deaths in a row. You could sum her up by saying- "Today, lynch Ang. If that's wrong, then Val is obviously guilty."

How convenient.

The voting stands-
Ang for Di
Di for Ang

I'm considering tacking my vote onto Di.

[Valier]

I like to leave the Roa-style analysis to Roa. I see no reason to restate everything that has been said about Boromir, Naria, or Ang. villagers have already done a great job on that and I don't see how me doing the same will help. I have stated before and in case you didn't know I DO NOT DO ANALYSIS when I do try, they make no sense and they get pooh-poohed for being wild or lacking and sure if you want to kill me today just so you can see go ahead, but as my dieing wish I say you then take out Ang tomorrow. The only reason I ask for him to go before me is that I really want to make it to the end of a game. I have never accomplished this feat yet.

[the phantom]

I like to leave the Roa-style analysis to Roa.
What an insane idea. As if Roa could do a Roa-style post.
when I do try, they make no sense and they get pooh-poohed
I know, I know. That's why I want you to do it. I've really been wanting to pooh-pooh someone all day today.
The only reason I ask for him to go before me is that I really want to make it to the end of a game. I have never accomplished this feat yet.
Aww... :(

Tell you what. If you really want to survive and win a game then I'll arrange for you to be a Wolf with me sometime. Does that work for you?

[the phantom]

Less than 2 & 1/2 hours till the deadline.

What are people thinking?

[Firefoot]

Okay, I've been doing some thinking, and I don't think I want to lynch Valier today (gasp). I'll be convinced that she's guilty and then she says something that completely throws me off.

The case against Anguirel is not strong enough for me to vote for him, and I'm not convincing myself, even after going back over some of his posts.

Spawn I'm sort of 50-50 about. She could be a wolf... but she's definitely not my top suspect.

Roa, I think is probably innocent.

There doesn't seem to be much of a case against Encai - certainly not enough to vote off of.

That leaves Diamond, and I've been thinking about her for a while now... she's my pick. I may or may not be back on before the deadline; if I am it would be extremely close. It's likely that I won't be.

++Diamond

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

As to Di, I'm more worried about her post #387:

"If Ang, Spawn, and Valier all died innocent, would it be too late to start worrying about Roa?" ~Di

Looks like she has basically decided her three, almost four, lynching candidates beforehand which is not very wise in a village like this since most or all people on her list are bound to be innocent.

I haven't really suspected Di because I think she has behaved quite normally, but I have a while now, so I can as well dig up some quotes.

"Anyway, like Valier [Diamond] seems to eccentric to be a wp. But this I do find odd: (quotes Di's Seer plan in her post #12 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=473131&postcount=12) and explains why he thinks it isn't a good idea)" ~Boro #33

"And Diamond has just confused me so far. The cobbler business seemed awkward to me, I'm glad she came out and explained it more, but she's not done anything to make me feel like she's innocent like the "innocent looking" group." ~Boro #46

"Diamond- She seems to be acting per usual. Nothing to send up red flags yet." ~Naria #298

I don't find those quotes very telling. I think Boro's quotes look more like he would be seriously making a foundation for a possible future case against Diamond, but who knows. Considering that in Naria's post #298 she more or less suspected everyone, I wonder if she would have classified only her penguin colleague innocent.


I'll vote as soon as I have made my mind.

[Valier]

I am thinking why is it so hard for a few of you to believe that Anguirel is possibly the Emperor?

I know, I know. That's why I want you to do it. I've really been wanting to pooh-pooh someone all day today.


That's uncalled for! you want me to sit here and go through everything just so you can pooh all over it? Right....


Tell you what. If you really want to survive and win a game then I'll arrange for you to be a Wolf with me sometime. Does that work for you?


No it does not work for me!! I would rather win the game as an innocent then a foul fowl any day! By the way Phantom try not to be such a jerk. I know what I am doing is not exactly helpful, but I see no other way to get people to listen to me. I don't see how you can all of a sudden support Ang's little Diamond crusade....that is what he wants!!!

[Encaitare]

Sorry for having to leave so abruptly before; I totally forgot I had to go to the orthodontist and had to get dressed and run out the door.

An idea I had whilst having metal tools poked about in my mouth: I believe that Ang is not a WP because he kept going with his suspicion of Diamond all along. A lone WP would probably try to avoid attention and go along with the general consensus of guilt, which until a while ago was Valier. It could be that he was making a very risky move and hoping to draw everyone to his side (which seems to have happened in some cases, with all these votes for Diamond), but again, that is a big risk and not guaranteed to save him. Plus, if Di really is innocent, it'll look terrible for him -- a chance I don't think a WP would take.

Current Voting

Diamond: 2 (Anguirel 1, Firefoot 3)
Anguirel: 1 (Diamond 2)

Tell you what. If you really want to survive and win a game then I'll arrange for you to be a Wolf with me sometime. Does that work for you?

:p

EDIT: Cross posted with Val.

[Firefoot]

Valier, you're taking phantom too seriously. Never take the phantom seriously. ;)

[Valier]

Votes so far

Anguirel-->Diamond
Diamond-->Anguirel
Roa_Aoife-->Spawn
Firefoot-->Diamond
Valier-->Valier

You know if you guys kill Diamond today do you really think Ang is going to kill the Phantom or myself? No! He will let this madness continue for another day.

SO I PURPOSE THAT YOU ALL VOTE OR RETRACT YOUR VOTES AND VOTE FOR ME!!! HOW IS KILLING DIAMOND TODAY GOING TO HELP? KILL ME NOW AND SAVE ME FROM HAVING TO DO THIS ALL AGAIN TOMORROW!! THEN WHEN YOU SEE I AM INNOCENT YOU CAN HOPEFULLY TRUST ME ENOUGH TO VOTE FOR ANG.


++VALIER

[Encaitare]

Hmmm... I was thinking about what Phantom did yesterday, telling us who he was going to Hunt. It was a very good idea, but obviously did not work out as planned. Perhaps it would work better if our beloved shadow could hint in some way towards his choice for toNight without telling us outright?

By the way Phantom try not to be such a jerk.

Nearly 4 years of arrogance... I think it's a bit late to try and change him now, hon. ;)

Wait -- I just saw Val's latest post. Did Roa really vote for Spawn? It was in a quote box so I wasn't sure. If Spawn does not come back to verify I guess it's up to our Mod Gods to decide.

[Firefoot]

Valier, if you're innocent, killing you is not going to help us.

[Valier]

Neither is killing an innocent Diamond, which I feel strongly that she is! The only way you will know if I am right is to kill AngEmperor

[Encaitare]

Okay... I was going to vote for Valier but now she reeks less of penguin and more of sheer insanity. Val, if you're so convinced of Ang's guilt, why do you not vote for him? He already has a vote. You make no sense.

Diamond may get my vote now just because it's what Val does not want.

EDIT: cross-posted with Valier

[Valier]

I voted for myself because everyone has been talking of killing someone other than Ang and I would hate to have to do this all over again tomorrow. If others will agree to vote for Ang I will switch my vote to him, if not then I stand with my suicide vote because I am convinced that Diamond is as innocent as I am.

Edit: I would rather die than see Dia die today

[Encaitare]

If others will agree to vote for Ang I will switch my vote to him, if not then I stand with my suicide vote because I am convinced that Diamond is as innocent as I am.

[emphasis mine]

If I didn't know better, I'd say there were two cobblers in this village... :rolleyes:

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I believe that Ang is not a WP because he kept going with his suspicion of Diamond all along. A lone WP would probably try to avoid attention and go along with the general consensus of guilt, which until a while ago was Valier.Perhaps, but a WP has to avoid also flip-flopping and bandwagoning. Sticking to one suspect removes the inconvenient problem for a Werething to find new innocents to suspect. I don't think Anguirel can look much worse even if we lynched Diamond and she turned out to be innocent...

If Spawn does not come back to verify I guess it's up to our Mod Gods to decide. I don't think I'm authorized to decide whether that is a vote or not. ;) I must admit that I was a bit confused with the pronouns there... who did Roa refer to? Was that her vote or did she quote Di's vote from yesterDay or what?

I seriously should be going now, but I think I'll stay for a while to observe this madness that's going on. :D

After that I probably vote for Ang.

[the phantom]

I know, I know. That's why I want you to do it. I've really been wanting to pooh-pooh someone all day today.
That's uncalled for!
Oh, good grief. :rolleyes:

Please tell me that you are able to recognize statements made in jest.
By the way Phantom try not to be such a jerk.
Obviously, you can't tell when I'm joking.

Come on now Val. My statements are so silly/absurd/out-of-place that they couldn't possibly be serious.

Your uber-reactions are putting you on thin ice with me, Val.
I don't see how you can all of a sudden support Ang's little Diamond crusade....that is what he wants!!!
That's all you want too, isn't it. ;)

Current voting.

Ang for Di
Di for Ang
FF for Di
Val for Val

[Encaitare]

I don't think I'm authorized to decide whether that is a vote or not. ;)

Hah, my bad -- I meant Roa would verify, of course.

Phantom, apparently, is not counting Roa's quasi-vote.

[Thinlómien]

Roa's vote will count, since she's obviously just messed up with the voting, quoting instead of bolding.

ROA, if for some reason you didn't try to vote spawn, you still have your retraction left.

Please be careful when voting.

[Thinlómien]

Anguirel-->Diamond
Diamond-->Anguirel
Roa_Aoife-->Spawn
Firefoot-->Diamond
Valier-->Valier

Just to clear this...

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Thanks, Lommy. And here's my vote.

++Anguirel

Good Night!

[Encaitare]

Diamond or Valier? Valier or Diamond? Which of these lucky ladies ought to receive my vote?

Good cases have been made against/about Diamond by Ang (of course :rolleyes: ), Firefoot, and Spawn. With these analyses she can be seen in a suspicious light.

Then again, Valier is irritating me with her fervor. I don't think she's a WP, but then again, we don't need no crazies in this here village.

Yeah. I don't think Val's a penguin, and our whole purpose here is to find the penguins, not the loonies.

++ DIAMOND

[Encaitare]

Cross-posted with Spawn, so here's the current voting stats:

Diamond: 3 (Ang 1, Firefoot 4, Encai 7)
Anguirel: 2 (Diamond 2, Spawn 6)
Spawn: 1 (Roa 3)
Valier: 1 (Valier 5)

[Valier]

Well since my vote for myself seems to not be working I switch to the Great Emperor

--Valier

++EmperorAnguirel


I know this will probably do no good but I had to try and I will again tomorrow.... Sorry Diamond...:(

[Encaitare]

I know this will probably do no good but I had to try and I will again tomorrow.... Sorry Diamond... :(

If it does turn out that Diamond is innocent, I have no doubts that Ang will be at the top of many people's suspect lists... so don't worry.

[Valier]

Ya but Enca wouldn't it be faster if we just kill Ang today? Just leave Dia for today and you will see I am no Loon!!!

[Roa_Aoife]

Back! With a short time to spare!

Spawn, if you'll carefully read my posts, you'll see that I put that big disclaimer on my whole "narrowing down the list" idea. I said quite clearly that it was based on an assumption on what Boromir might have done, and that I was unaware if this was the truth or not. But it's just as good an idea as any.

Also, if you'll note, that last quote you have from Boromir about Ang is directly under that statment that he was listing the people he suspected and would likely vote for. If you're going to disprove my theory, pay attention to what you're reading. I provided a link to that post in a previous answer to you. #46, and I'm not linking it again.

I find it odd that you go about "pooh-poohing" (to use Valier's phrase) my list now, when you're one of the few being singled out by it. The same list regarding Boromir was up before, but you said nothing then. Nervous to be in a spotlight?

So, then, to look about, I'm leaning towards Valier's innocense at this point. She's kind of acting the way she was in DW when she figured out I was the EW. Just so everyone clearly knows, I turned her after her crazy case against me. So, I'm inclined to think she's innocent. However, I'm not wholly inclined to believe she is right about Ang. I did find some strange things about him in the last analysis of him that I did- things which he never answered, by the way.

For now, my vote for Spawn stands, though I don't want to see Diamond die, and my suspicion of Firefoot remains. But, for heavens sake, I went through all that work to narrow down the list for everyone, and I'm at least going to take advantage of it, if no one else will.

[the phantom]

+ + Firefoot

If we're wrong today, my Hunter pick will be...
Valier

My Ranger protect would be...
Spawn

See you tomorrow.

Or not.

[Valier]

Why Oh why would you vote for Firefoot now of all days Phantom, when she isn't even a lynching candidate? Someone please change their vote to Ang, before the Day is over!!!!

[the phantom]

I voted for Firefoot because my first choice was no longer on the board.

I wanted to kill you and then Hunt Ang during the night. I thought that would solve as many problems as anything.

[Valier]

Voting for Ang now will solve all our problems!!!!!!

[Roa_Aoife]

*sugh* Alright, I don't want to see Diamond dead yet, and maybe this will finally shut Valier up.

--Spawn

++Ang

I realize that if Ang is innocent I'm in the frying pan tomorrow, but I don't care. I didn't have a strong case on Spawn anyways and it's better to count for something.

[the phantom]

- - Firefoot

+ + Ang

[Thinlómien]

Stop. Ang's death in a while.

[Thinlómien]

Roa started the Day by blinking. Then she began: “I was afraid of this....
Quite the conumdrum, indeed.” After that she went on to try and solve it with a host of analysis thrown to her fellow Elves.

Given one more day to live – by his own words, the phantom quickly presented his master plan. Everyone agreed to it. And the flow of analysis – or were they summaries – continued with a steady pace throughout the Day.

Valier had been convinced of Anguirel’s guilt and stated it from the early morning onwards. Soon she started a campaign, holding various plackards, saying:

”ANG MUST GO!!” and ”HE IS EVIL!” and ”DO NOT LET HIM FOOL YOU!” and “KILL, ANG NOW!” and “IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!”

“Wow, Val is going nuts. Is that normal?” the phantom asked confused, sharing the uneasiness with Eancaitare and Firefoot.

“Nuts? I like nuts! mmmmmm nuts”, Valier answered, pulling another protest sign:
”ANG IS NUTS!! NUTS, NUTS, NUTS!“ After that she continued her picketing “ANG IS BAD!” and ”EMPEROR, SHMEMPEROR !!” and “I'M NOT AFRAID OF BIRDS!”

Many were suspected, but the Elves were going basically to two directions, either to Ang or then to Dimwë (although she had taken care of Kitanna’s corpse for the day quite well). At one point Valier even threatened the others with a suicide if Ang wouldn’t be lynched, but it seemed not to help her crusade. Dimwë’s heartbeat dashed. Valier was crying ever louder: “Not her, not her! Wouldn't it be faster if we just kill Ang today? Just leave Dia for today and you will see I am no Loon!!! Kill Ang!” but Firefoot and Encaitare took Dimwë from the shoulders and Anguirel took a chandelier. Just then Roa jumped forward sighing and sided with Valier. “Alright, I don't want to see Diamond dead yet. So it will be you Anguirel!” Firefoot and Encaitare let go of Dimwë.

“I won’t die without a fight!” Anguirel shouted, his eyes flashing. He took a great mace that hung on the ceiling and swung it threateningly.
“Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave innocents in peace!” Valier answered, picking Kitanna’s ranger sword from the ground.
“I won’t watch this tomfoolery!” Ang declared.
“Do what you will; but I will hinder you, if I may.”
“Hinder me? Thou fool. No chambermaid may hinder me.”
“But no mere chambermaid am I! I am the confidante of Lady Elenwë”
All the beholders were frozen by their fear; no one but Valier had dared to approach Ang in his fury, nor to resist his deadly mace. Roa clenched her hand. Valier should not die, so innocent, so desperate!
Valier swung her sword. As a minstrel Anguirel was used to prancing around and easily warded off the strike. The fact that Valier didn’t hit didn’t lessen his wrath. With a cry of hatred that stung the very ears like venom he let fall his mace. Valier’s arm was broken and she stumbled to her knees. He raised his mace to give another blow.
But suddenly he too stumbled forward with a cry of bitter pain, and his stroke went wide, driving into the ground. Roa’s dagger had stabbed him from behind.
“Valier, Valier!” cried Roa. Then tottering, struggling up, with her last strenghth Valier drove her sword through Anguirel. The sword broke sparkling into many shards.

Anguirel was dead. His Elven body was laying on the floor.

Have we killed our first innocent with our own hands? The question hung grimly in the air, though no one voiced it.

Overtaken by sadness, they turned for the last time to their dead friend Anguirel. To their astonishment they saw that it was no longer the Anguirel they had known that lay on the floor. It was something like this. http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/Thinlomien/werepenguins/wwjEmperorPortrait.jpg
When they were still staring it, they saw it slowly being consumed by an inner fire. In minutes, only ash remained.

------------------------------

~ The Dead ~
Nogrod - a troubadour, singer – mod, blowed up in the Big Bang on Night1
Thinlómien - a troubadour, harpist – mod, blowed up in the Big Bang on Night1
Boromir88 - The Mouth of Turgon – werepenguin, cast into a gorge on Day1
Kitanna - servant who empties and cleans chamber pots – ranger, body and soul separated by Cartesian Dualism on Night2
JennyHallu - An Embroiderer, lost, not related – cobbler, shot dead in to the sea on Day2
Lalaith - Aredhel's tutoress – seer, blinded, mutilated and torn apart by the Owl of Minerva on Night3
Eonwe - Turgon's herald - ordo, lost in the waves of the dark sea on Day3
Naria - Family's goat herder - werepenguin, driven into a gorge by her consicience on Day3
Macalaure - Turgon's nephew and part-time-repentant kinslayer – ordo, brains exploded after entering a vicious regression concerning the possible infiniteness of self-reflective consciousness on Night4
Anguirel - Lalwendë's semi-canonical lutenist and Findis's demi-canonical flautist - werepenguin, pierced by the Ranger sword wielded by Valier, the secret chambermaid on Day4

~ The Living ~
dancing spawn of ungoliant - animals' dung cleaning specialist
Diamond18 - Dimwë the half-wit second cousin of Elenwë
Encaitare - A standard-bearer
Firefoot- Aredhel's friend
the phantom - Ecthelion's hotheaded nephew and personal squire
Roa_Aoife - Elenwë's personal guard
Valier - Elenwë's personal chamber maid

------------------------------

Congrats to all innocents, you have won.

The official game has now ended.

However, there will be a final final narration that reveals the fates of the Elves and their lady Elenwë, and the origin of the evil penguins, and it will be up in 24 hours.

[Nogrod]

You can discuss freely now.

[Lalaith]

Oh well done elves! And bravo to the mods for some wonderful deaths, I don't think I've enjoyed the denouments so much in any game.
Valier, another scarily inspired divination, how do you do it?
SO, who was the real Hunter? Valier herself?
And as for you, Angurliel....

[Roa_Aoife]

*hugs Valier* You are the most awesomest player ever! Your instincts are just phenomenal. I swear, you have got to be psychic.

[Nogrod]

That was a brave bunch of Elves! No ordos were killed during the Days! Kudos to you all!

Valier, you are just scary... :)

Btw. meaning before you ask, the roles were given out totally at random (we had a deck of cards and a card nominated to every player here). The three species of penguins were also picked beforehand and their characters in the narrations evolved within the frames of the storytelling. We surely were sad to miss the opportunity to continue the chatting between the Rockhopper and the Chinstrap after Day1. :D

Even though I have in a way made also my congrats in Lommy's official post earlier, I would still like to do it in this more personal way (as the in-game narrations have all been made together, with the same keyboard - and the fight for both the keyboard and the ideas).

Well done people! (not Elves anymore?)

[Valier]

No I'm not psychic. I just watch how people interact and who the players are in general, then who the mod or Mods are and who I think they would pick and so on. After awhile I just go with my high suspects and watch the way the people I attack act. I have no idea...:rolleyes: but I'm glad we won.:D I thought I was really going to go crazy today if Ang was not killed. Sorry to everyone for being so loony!!! Nice narrations LomGrod they were great!!

[Thinlómien]

Valier, you're creepy. And your hunches are just incredible.

Ang, you were my favourite.

Well played everyone. Yes, every single one of you.

I must admit that I was in a way on the penguins' side, but hear my three reasons before you start to scream and neg-rep me... :D
1) If they had stayed alive longer, we could have written more narrations. Writing them is real fun.
2) Can you imagine me not supporting penguins? :eek: That would just be against my deepest nature...
3) You innocents were doing such an awesome job except that you managed to lose all your gifteds except the hunter, who I will let come out themself, that I felt the baddies needed some support... ;)

Honestly, that was the most awesome, analytical and non-nonsense village I've probably ever seen.

Congrats for a great game!

[Roa_Aoife]

So, phantom was lying to us the whole time. And you used the idea of being a gifted to further your own agenda, too. I ask you, what would have happened if you had been killed and Valier had been guilty? The real hunter may have had to come forward, and then all our gifted's would be revealed. Or we would have lynched the real hunter because we believed you. It was terribly reckless of you.

Okay, I'm done chiding for the moment.

[Diamond18]

Hahahahahahaha! And my perfect "Never been lynched" record still stands.

Valier, you're amazing. *mwah* :o Sorry to have doubted you on earlier days. If only I hadn't been thinking of Ang as innocent for so long.... But at least I got it in time.

Who was it who said, "Good thoughts, Ang" in response to his last crazy tirade against me? Oh, yeah, that was you tp. :p Well you're forgiven because you changed your vote in time. ;)

Great game, Lomgrod! I'll be looking forward to the final, final narration.

[the phantom]

Well you're forgiven because you changed your vote in time.
Of course I did. You didn't think I'd try and save you, m'dear?
So, phantom was lying to us the whole time.
Yep.
I ask you, what would have happened if you had been killed and Valier had been guilty?
Do you honestly think Valier would've killed me when I was "hunting" her? Even if you could find a Penguin crazy enough to consider doing that, I doubt anyone actually would.

The way I saw it, if I got killed then Val was innocent, plus there would still be a Hunter left. A rather nice set up for the village if you ask me. My plan was basically to improve the odds of having a proven innocent left hanging about at the end.
The real hunter may have had to come forward, and then all our gifted's would be revealed.
Why in the world would the real Hunter do that? No no. I was providing our Hunter with cover. And my whole "think like a gifted plan" for getting everyone to state their fake-Hunts- that was so just in case the REAL Hunter got killed during the night we would know precisely who the pick was, and thus have another proven innocent.
Or we would have lynched the real hunter because we believed you.
Well, not getting lynched would be the Hunter's responsibility. I was hoping that the real Hunter would find a way to drop me a hint as to their identity so that I could keep them from getting lynched, and at the same time keep them under suspicion (to avoid being killed by the Penguin right away).

Unfortunately I didn't have a whole lot of time to snoop for clues, so I just made the best guesses I could. You, Roa, along with Valier were the two I was trying to make sure survived until tomorrow. When I have more time I'll explain why I thought you were the Hunter at first and then why I became convinced that it was Valier (and why I put pressure on her despite thinking her innocent).

But it seems that I was wrong about both of you being the Hunter. I'll just have to wait and see who it was.

[Firefoot]

It was me! Me! I was the Hunter! Not phantom, me!

Okay, I've been wanting to say that for a while now... phantom stealing all my thunder while I'm sitting in line to get lynched. But I let him have his way, since it seemed a reasonable way to keep an innocent around, and might tell us something about the penguins (can't tell you how many times I've had to back up because I said wolves... there probably are some places that I didn't catch myself). Well done, phantom, it was a clever move. But you've been killing me over here!

Great game everybody. Even if I was wrong... a lot... I kind of had fun being way out there for once. For a while there I thought you all were going to break my record though... never been lynched as an innocent. Of course, if you were aiming to do that I would have had to reveal myself. Sometimes sitting back and waiting for the wolves to kill you gets a bit old, y'know. It was a... weird game for me.

[Diamond18]

Sorry if I clutter the thread, I just didn't get chances to make these replies being gone:

Firefoot... how did you go from having me as your Ranger pick to voting for me? I don't understand. *scratches head* At any rate, I'm glad you turned out innocent because... well... that means I was right about you. :p


I find Diamond's posts 384 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=474590&postcount=384) & 387 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=474602&postcount=387) interesting.

She is basically trying to set up two deaths in a row. You could sum her up by saying- "Today, lynch Ang. If that's wrong, then Val is obviously guilty."

How convenient.

How very.

I trust the scary accuracy of Valier's instincts, so it seemed pretty clear to me that if she was "wrong" she was evil. But once I actually looked at Ang close enough he felt so wrong that I really started to believe in Valier's innocence. Having her so sure kind of helped me to believe in my own doubts about him, despite it not fitting in nicely with one of my pet theories. That, and Ang calling that theory a "distraction" which screamed so loudly, "I know you're wrong Diamond," that I considered it a fairly wolifsh slip.


Diamond may get my vote now just because it's what Val does not want.

Gee, thanks. So, did you ever think I was actually guilty? :rolleyes:

[Diamond18]

So Firefoot was the Hunter, eh? I thought even before Mac's death that phantom might be bluffing, because it seemed awfully conveinent for him to be both a proven innocent and the Hunter. And if anyone is going to be cheeky enough to fake being a Gifted, it's tp. ;) I actually started typing out this suspicion a couple times but then I backspaced because I thought, "Really, that kind of speculation can only help the penguins." I'm not sure I could have kept silent if I was in Firefoot's position, so kudos to you for that, O ineFfeble one.


Of course I did. You didn't think I'd try and save you, m'dear?

The possibility of you not saving me did cross my mind. :p

Well, actually, the fact that when I came on here I saw that Roa was that last to post at around 6 PM (one hour after deadline) pretty much spoilt the suspense for me. I knew I wasn't going to die because the game couldn't be over if I had died. But that didn't stop me from yelling, "Stop giving Valier a hard time and vote ANG already!" at my monitor while I caught up on the posts.

[JennyHallu]

I thought Roa was the third penguin...despite her masterfully innocent innocentness. But in my defense, this is why:

Oh, if only you had had more time, youwould have been terribly troublesome! At least you took the place of a penguin. Interesting hint, by the way.... ~Roa
For some reason I decided this rep was a subtle hint that she was the penguin.

And lynching me that day was not fair!!

:P

[Diamond18]

Poor Jenny, will you ever get to be good again? :p

[Encaitare]

Wow. And here I thought Valier was just totally crackers. :rolleyes:

Phantom, you cheeky SOB. ;)

Hmmm... apparently cool and seemingly apathetic is the way to play it. I learn new things every game -- this game I was "recruited" for and felt pretty calm about the whole thing. I've learned that self-defense is pointless and often digs you in deeper, so I was pleased to note that just playing it cool and letting my votes speak for my innocence worked out well for me.

Great playing, everyone!

[the phantom]

So, Firefoot was the Hunter, eh? I'm sooooo glad you didn't come forward and argue with me when I claimed to be the Hunter. When I considered the type of people populating the village, I thought the odds of the Hunter keeping their mouth shut were pretty good, and I'm glad I wasn't wrong about that.

Right after I said I was the Hunter, Roa said this-
Thanks for your help, phantom, and good luck. Three gifteds in three nights... oh dear... Just be wary of crafty birds.
I was on the lookout for reactions from people, trying to see if someone struck me as the true Hunter. For some reason this statement caught my eye. It was like Roa was trying to enforce that I was gifted, and the "oh dear" comment was like a smirking "oh dear *snigger*, we're about to lose our fake Hunter".

It's obvious now that the comment wasn't written with that intent, but that's how part of me was trying to read it. My overworked, sleepy brain.

But then I started to believe that Valier was the Hunter. If you remember, on day 3 I eased my suspicions of her and took her off my lynch list (which was three people, two of them were Penguins! go me! ha ha!) Val's behavior seemed to indicate she didn't fear death too much, and her single-minded attack on Ang made me think even more that she was innocent. The particular frustration she seemed to have with me- I thought maybe it stemmed from the fact that SHE was the very Hunter I was trying to help and yet I was giving her a hard time.

Once I started thinking that she might be the Hunter, I decided I would keep her under the gun and bet that the Penguin wouldn't kill her that night, but at the same time I didn't keep her under the gun to the extent that I actually started a crusade to lynch her. I wasn't going to let that happen, despite my threats.

And if I waffled on my threats, I knew no one could possibly accuse me of anything, because I was a proven innocent. As a proven I pretty much had a permit to do anything I pleased. :)

Thanks for the dream, Lalaith.

Despite believing that she might not be the Hunter after all, I still thought Roa was innocent. Unfortunately, it seemed like everyone did. I say "unfortunately", because Penguins kill people who are too innocent. I thought Roa was the likely Penguin choice for the next night, so I didn't place Roa as my least suspicious person. Instead I put Spawn there, and tried to make Spawn look completely innocent.

I picked Spawn because I thought she would be a good Penguin kill (yes, Spawn, I was trying to set you up for death- sorry). I was pretty confident of Spawn's innocence (I've been a Wolf with her before, and that helped my thinking), and I was also pretty confident she was not the Hunter. I've played with her enough to know a bit about how she acts, and I was fairly confident that a Hunter-Spawn would find a way to hint me.

So, since she was an innocent that was distracting people's attention and I didn't think she was the Hunter, I tried to make her look completely innocent so the Penguin would choose to kill her at night.
Phantom, you cheeky SOB.
Aww, thanks.
I actually started typing out this suspicion a couple times but then I backspaced because I thought, "Really, that kind of speculation can only help the penguins."
Good thinking.

[Anguirel]

I have one request. Lalaith, I was rather dreading being called Angurliel. Could you desist? Please? It's not my fault I was chosen as a Penguin. What's more, I didn't actually win...

This was a fairly gruelling game, but at least I have the satisfaction of knowing I was beaten by the clearheaded rationale of the unpushy, laid back, relaxed, persuasive Valier...

Thankyou to both mods. You were great. phantom, you should take an Oxford degree in Werewolf Studies. Diamond, you will remain forever Audrey.

[Naria]

Absolutely superb playmanship!! I don't believe I've seen a junior village as active as this one. I really had fun in this one.....even if I was oober quite. :rolleyes:

Valier, where do you get such annoyingly-super-bang on intuitions? I just couldn't believe it when you started to go after Ang and wouldn't let up. I thought- Oh no here we go again! At that point I was sreaming at the screen- Ang get back on you need to do something and stop her before people actually start listening. :p

Again, great game everyone!

Kudos to both mods. Really, really great narrations :D Thanks for the role as well; it was nice being a baddie again.

[Lalaith]

Could you desist? Please?
Oh very well. Never let it be said I kicked a man when he was down. And you fought a valiant fight, after all. Even if you did exploit me and my silly list of suspects to your own pinguescent ends...

I was sad when I had to out myself. I was so excited about being Seer, I'd never been one before...I don't think I was very good at it at all, a good seer should have been able to stay hidden for more than a day. I was just very, very lucky with my first dream. There were a lot of players I thought it *vital* to know about, but in the end I chose Boromir from my memories of WWX. He was Mr Nice Guy, everybody liked him, everybody trusted him....a very dangerous character indeed, if on the evil side.
I was so cross though when I screwed up in my "strategy" on the first day and nearly got lynched. I've never been an early lynching candidate before, I just didn't think it would happen. Complacency is the worst WW fault, and I was guilty.

I wanted, as I said in my PMs to the mods, to lie that Phantom was the Hunter when I dreamt of him, but I thought it was too risky, the real hunter might not realise what I was up to and try to out me as a false seer. So instead I left the wording, in my revelation, ambigious enough for Phantom to do it himself once I was dead, I reckoned he would do it....

Valier's instincts are indeed amazing (her placard routine was also hilarious) but kudos also to Roa for spotting Boro on the first day like that. I thought she must be a WP, I was finding it very hard to make a convincing case against him and thought that only another WP would know he also was a WP...
One thing about this village, I don't know if it was the high calibre of the players or what....when I came to my composing my leaving list of suspects, I couldn't understand why I had such a vague and unclear feeling about everything...then I realised it was only Day Two. We really moved fast, Day One was almost like Day Two or Three....did any of the rest of you find this...?

[Anguirel]

I might as well tell you something amusing.

I had given up hope and was planning to attack the phantom the moment he chose me as a target.

Had I been able to do so, I might have been "proven innocent" and waltzed through...

[Nogrod]

We really moved fast, Day One was almost like Day Two or Three....did any of the rest of you find this...?Yes indeed! We were just amazed as went on reading your gaming. And really: the next time someone starts whining about Day1's unusefulness or randomness, we can always cite this game as an example!

[Macalaure]

You did well in killing me, Anguirel.

First, because RL kept me busy much longer than I thought.
Second, because all the time I was seperated from the internet one thought kept rotating in my mind: "I need to look at Ang."
But it seems, fortunately, like my help was not needed anyway.

I came back yesterday evening with my best intentions to read through everything that has been posted and then sadly saw that I was no more. It made the decision hunt-penguins-on-downs vs. watch-football-with-friends a lot easier. :D

Still I need to ask you: why me? To leave a cold trail like some were thinking?


Chapeau to Nogrod and Thinlómien. The narration and the deaths were just great. That first penguin image gave me an uneasy sleep that night.

And chapeau to us villagers. We were going quite precisely after penguins and cobblers without lynching one innocent. Has that ever happened before in WW history?

[JennyHallu]

Actually, phantom, I was intensely doubtful that you were any sort of Hunter. That was just...far too convenient. Unfortunately, I couldn't say anything without being horrendously obvious...just sit there imagining how good it would feel to actually be a penguin and call your bluff.

[Mithalwen]

And chapeau to us villagers. We were going quite precisely after penguins and cobblers without lynching one innocent. Has that ever happened before in WW history?


* Cough *Return to Midsomer Mawlin, wolves lynched on days 1, 2 & 3, in no small measure due to a very successful Boro-seer.

[Nogrod]

It took a while for the Elves to understand that they had defeated their foes. They began to laugh from relief and embraced each other.

In the midst of all the joy, they heard a broken voice speaking: ”They all died because of me.” Valier and Roa were the first to recognise it. “Lady Elenwë? You’re alive!” Valier cried out in astonishment, forgetting the pain in her broken arm. “I almost thought I had failed you, Milady”, Roa said, kneeling before her Mistress, tears in her eyes.

Everyone gathered around their Lady, relieved to see her. “What happened to you? And what has happened to us? What is this place?”

Elenwë tried to push the questions away. “We don’t have time, my friends. All I can tell you is that this island is inhabited by an evil spirit, one of the fallen Maiar, a former servant of Ulmo, who rejected his master and lent an ear to Melkor’s lies and became allured by them. He controls those damned birds, tortures their souls to make them do his bidding. As a cruel game, he took over three of you, Boromir, Naria and Anguirel, and turned them against the others. He stole their fëar and your friends became enslaved by an evil spell. The creatures you slew were but a mere shadow of your friends an alien spirit had taken over, making their bodies to obey him over their own fëar, and giving them the dark power of lycantrophy.”

The Elves were looking at her in disbelief, their mouths trying to formulate the most pressing questions, but Lady Elenwë continued in haste: “Now you must run! I’ll come to your help!”
She rushed out from the Great Hall and through the doors, leaving the confused Elves standing to the Hall.
“What did she say?” asked Dimwë.
“I’m not sure, but we will just have to follow her. Now!” answered the phantom and took after Lady Elenwë. Roa and Valier had already started after her. Firefoot, spawn and Encaitare followed them. Dimwë glanced once more to the Hall and noticed Kitanna still tied to the chair. “I promised to look after you, and so I will. Even if I’m dim-witted, I’m not dim-hearted.” She untied the ropes and took Kitanna’s bruised and soulless body by the hand. “Maybe someone can make you brighter than me again one day.”

And there was a ship down at the shore! It was very small, but still, it was a ship. All the Elves ran down the hill to reach it. Hurriedly they jumped aboard while lady Elenwë stood beside the ship and called them to hasten. When they had all gotten to the ship, lady Elenwë loosened the rope with which it had been moored and threw it onboard. The Elves were stunned as the ship took off without Lady Elenwë. Elenwë’s personal guard Roa and her chambermaid Valier ran to the rail and yelled to her in anguish “What is this? Come with us! We’ll just steer this back to take you on.”

“Nay, my dear friends. You have to go by your own. I’m bound to this Valar-forsaken island, but because of your success in the macabre game of his, you have earned your freedom. But make haste! I can’t promise that his word can be trusted” she called them back, waving her hand to say farewell.

The Elves onboard were agitated and stricken by the sudden revelation. The ship was slowly but steadily sailing away from the shore. Firefoot leaned to the rail and shouted back to her: “Why? Why aren’t you coming with us?”

“Tell my husband and my daughter that I loved them dearly!” she replied and turned her back to the Elves and the Sea that washed the shores of both Aman and Beleriand. With a heavy heart she started climbing back to the palace, and towards her fate.

The ship disappeared to the horizon, and no living soul ever saw the lost Elves nor spoke with them. Thus the tale of Elenwë was forgotten and the fate of the lost became a mystery – and the mystery became a legend.

[Diamond18]

Diamond, you will remain forever Audrey.

:D I have yet to thank you for inspiring my new avatar. Daffy lovers may shed a tear, but I think I am rather fond of the Audreyfication and will keep this one for a while.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I was right about our sir Anguirel since Day 1! Boy, this feels good. ;)

Thank you, Lommy and Nogrod, for great modding! The penguin pics were a clever idea, especially the first one that looked seriously murderous gave me the creeps. Too bad you didn't get to write any more deaths because they were hilarious. Oli ihan sairaan hauska peli! Kiitos. :D



Ms. Chinstrap, Mr. Rockhopper and Mr. Emperor, that was very brave of you...

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e349/dsou/penguin1.jpg

... you just didn't have much luck.

Actually, I was a bit sad to see you go so early because it was fun playing with all of you. Some other time, then.

Lalaith - You chose your dreams perfectly. Even though you were forced to reveal yourself in the beginning, I don't doubt your picks had a huge effect on the outcome. Well done!
Macalaure - That was a great performance in your first game.
phantom - Well, you already know that you're awesome, so I don't think people need to go saying that out loud anymore.
Valier - Great job defending your views so persistently! I hope I'm never a baddie in a village where you are an innocent.
Roa - You were so helpful that at one point I thought that it had to be a bluff... yeah, me and my logics. You spotting Boro right away was great.
Firefoot - It's a pity that you didn't get your kill (that would've been fun), but the bright side of this is that you stayed alive to enjoy the victory. Well done hiding your identity.
Jenny - Your open defense of the penguins was hilarious. Good job fulfilling your duty; postponing the death of the culprits.
Kitanna - I'm sorry you had to reveal yourself, and you can blame my vote for it, too. Still, you being able to protect Lalaith was a big help.
Encai - It was interesting to read the statistics you gathered, so thanks.
Diamond - The perfect Audrey! I've wondered how on earth you manage to do so many analyses, but anyway, they are really handy. Thanks for making one for me, too.


yes, Spawn, I was trying to set you up for death- sorry "Sorry?" That's it? :p

[Thinlómien]

Nice pic, spawn. It seems it was a good choice not to take a gentoo penguin with us... ;)

I confess I would have liked Diamond to die on Day4. Not only because Ang wouldn't have died yet and so we mods would have gotten to write more narrations, but also because I already had an idea for her death. She would have been pinned to a tree by a spear and the buried to a mound. The mound would later have been known as Haudh-en-Audrey. :p

[Farael]

Well guys, I browsed this game very lightly, and well, well done to you ordos. The narrations were... how should I say it? interesting :p but in a good way, good job to the mods!!

Anyway, I wanted to leave you guys with a really nice picture.. I hope you all enjoy it.... and let's hope it works

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/maw1603/pinguino_sorete.gif


Ok, I previewed this post and it sort of work... not the best quality, but I hope you guys get what's going on in there

[Diamond18]

The mound would later have been known as Haudh-en-Audrey. :p


Ha! Now I almost wish I had died. :p I'm sure you would have all slaughtered Ang mercilessly the very next day, anyway.

Nah, I liked surviving past him. ;)

[Naria]

Ha ha, very funny Farael! Is that a Chinstrap perhaps? And yes that's exactly what I did this game....fell flat on my face :( . However, I did think that Ang did a wonderful job and Boro, if left alive, would have done the same. Bringing the Pengus to a victory :p .

Spawn, hilarious....I loved your pic :D !

[Boromir88]

Well done all you blasted elves, certainly tough.

I apologize to my teammates for giving such a bad disadvantage at the start, even with getting the Seer and Ranger revealed, there was just a great group of players by all to foil our plans.

I was reading most for a couple days, but I've been so piled up and busy I got behind right around Naria's death, so hopefully I can finish up the rest here.

And actually Mac I wasn't trying to make you look bad if I died (well maybe I was just a bit). But had I been an ordinary innocent I still would have seen your play as an innocent villager and so as a sneak penguin that's exactly what I said.

Another good job to Valier, I don't know how the heck she does it. And I was getting a kick the first couple days after, because everyone was looking at my innocent list, but none of my partners were there. :D

I don't know whether to praise Lalaith and Roa, or scowl at them, well still it was a job well done. Especially the sparks at the end that got created and unravelled. I wished I was there at the end when it was all happening, I was thinking had I been there I would have posted my Parley rights and no one would be able to touch me. :p Still I'm sorry for whatever pain I caused in that first day for giving you such a difficult time...well not really.

Then I kind of regretted coming out against them so strongly, because as Ang quite blatantly put it there really was no reason to (I really need to work on my Day 1's and get along with everyone...or maybe just not talk so much). Though it forced Lal to come out, that got me automatically lynched, and had I not been so strong, I was going to try to convince my buds to kill Lalaith that night. But alas again she foiled my plans.

phantom, of course if it was your strategy as a wolf it was a good strategy to use...just bad timing I guess. :p

And a very special congrats to Lommy and Nogrod, the narrations were absolutely great.

[Volo]

Sorry to have read only the first posts, but I got hungry during the third post... Anyway, where is the cook? There should be a cook in the game...

Well, the idea is totally great! Will read this whole topic, in few (~10) hours.

[Valier]

Volo you do know this game is long over right? Check out the Tol- in-Gurhoth thread or the Werewolf junior thread for upcoming games.

[Volo]

Yes, I do know.