Tol-in-Gaurhoth XXII: Hic Monstrae Trucidant

[Kath]

The roles:

Ordinary Villagers - The Ordinary Villagers post during the Day and decide whom to lynch. They are silent at Night.

Seer - Each Night, the Seer chooses one villager to dream about and PMs their choice to me. The role of that villager will be revealed. The Changeling, however, will appear as an Ordinary Villager.

Ranger - Each Night, the Ranger chooses one villager to protect and PMs their choice to me. The Werewolves then cannot kill that person during that Night. The Ranger cannot protect themselves, and cannot protect the same person two Nights in a row.

Hunter - Each Night, the Hunter chooses one villager to take down with them in case they are killed and PMs their choice to me.

Changeling - Each Night, the Changeling chooses one villager and takes on that villagers role. In the event of becoming a wolf the chosen wolf may not take part in the Night's discussions but nor may the Changeling, and the Changeling chooses who will be killed that Night.


The rules:

Votes will be cast throughout the day, and must be put on a separate line and bolded, like so:

++KATH

The votes will be retractable, with as many changes of vote as wanted permitted. The last name voted for at the deadline will be counted.

There will be no double lynches. If there is a tie the first person to have reached the most number of votes will be lynched.

The deadline will be 11pm GMT. Any posts after this time at Night will be ignored.

Dead players may not post.

No player can use PMs to verify anything they say.

Editing is only allowed to correct spelling/grammar mistakes, to go back and bold/italicize something or to say who you have cross-posted with if that happens.

All players must be in Invisible Mode.


The players:

Lhuna - traveller with absolutely no sense of direction
Cailín - tragedienne
Nilp - ex-world champion in chess
Fea - confectionist
Celuien - ketchup grower
Form - homeless wanderer
TGWBS - Pokémaster
Lommy - AA-adviser
Nogrod - owner of ME's first hamburger restaurant
lmp - gravedigger
Tom - tree surgeon
Caran - town poet
Findëasëa (from now called Fin) - alpaca herder
spawn - lumberjackess
Mith - aura consultant
morm - butcher
Durelin - ninja
Boromir - undercover assassin
Sauce - retired Arda-famous chariot racer and playboy millionaire

The game will begin at 11pm GMT. Do not post before then.

[Kath]

In the sleepy town of Animalia life was easy and quiet. The villagers lived in harmony with the animals that surrounded them, and went about their daily lives with good-natured humour, and their nights without fear. Until, on a dark and stormy night, life for the villagers changed forever.

A flash of lightning illuminated a shape slinking through the trees. The movement was followed by hundreds of bright little eyes, the animals were watching. The shadow moved into a clearing lit by the moon, and it seemed to the watchers that it grew and changed shape, until the body of a man was clear through the foliage. As it straightened, the sound of footsteps could be heard amid the thunder, and moments later three more humans stepped into the clearing. This was clearly designed to be a meeting of some kind.

The four humans moved towards each other, the three heading towards the one, until they met in the middle. As they were speaking in Human, the creatures around them couldn’t understand a word, but they didn’t need to understand to know that a very heated debate was going on, and whatever it was about, the shapeshifter was losing.

The watchers observed as he, it, stepped away from the others, apparently conceding to them. The newcomers began to walk back across the clearing, but turned as an unearthly howl arose from behind them. They froze in horror at the sight that met their eyes, but barely had time to scream before the beast attacked. Leaping on each person in turn it bit them and moved onto the next, until all three were lying on the ground, bleeding from their wounds. Slowly, their attacker dragged them across the clearing, laying them down in a patch of moonlight shining through the heavy clouds above.

Under the watchful gaze of those amidst the trees, the maimed bodies began to change, with limbs lengthening and hair sprouting and teeth growing sharp until they barely resembled humans at all, but rather the ominous form of wolves. Cautiously they rose to their four paws, keeping a wary eye on and distance between each other, and the one that had turned them. Though they formed a circle as they rose there was an obvious leader, and it was that creature that began a strange almost musical growling, as though the wolves, werewolves, were speaking to each other.

The noise was low and strangely hypnotic, and the animals watching soon found themselves caught deep within a trance-like state. They listened in delight, but suddenly the growling changed and became angry. Waking, the creatures saw an arrow shoot from the very edge of the clearing and strike the leader right in the heart. It howled, an unearthly sound that sent shivers through the woods. It was a note of finality, a herald of death, and indeed death soon followed. Whatever had shot it had already disappeared through the woods and back towards the village, and as they stared into the clearing the sky began to clear, allowing more moonlight through the clouds to illuminate the scene below.

Lying in the middle of the space was a giant wolf, with features like that of a man gone wild, and clearly dead. The remaining three were clustered around it, and began their musical speech again. The animals did not need to know the tongue to understand, the wolves would exact revenge on the town they had once been truly a part of for killing one of their own. A shared howl went up to the sky, and the wolves leaped out of the clearing and after their enemy, followed by anything in the forest willing and able to move.

[Kath]

Night 1 has now begun.

Seer PM me with the player you wish to dream of.

Werewolves PM amongst yourselves.

Other Gifted's have no role toNight.

[Kath]

Kath had run from the woods back to the town, knowing she would be safe for the night if only she could get back to her house. Her foresight, skill with weapons and charms for protection had always served her well before, but tonight her foresight had shown Kath her own death, and she was determined to do all she could to help the village combat these monsters before then. Running inside she gathered everything she would need and headed back out.

Making sure not to wake anyone she pushed a small slip of paper under the door of one of the huts. There were no words on it, at least none that could be seen, but upon being read they would give the reader her gift of foresight, and that person would become a Seer. Under another she slipped the paper that would pass on her skill with weapons, in order that the reader would become a Hunter. Next the one that would pass on the ability to protect, to gain the role of a Ranger. Taking the last slip she hesitated. This was a wildcard, and she wasn’t sure whether to gift someone with it or not. While it could help the village immensely, it could also help the wolves. Hearing the howls getting closer, she quickly made a decision and pushed the slip under a door, knowing the occupant would soon have the gift of a Changeling.

Making her way back to her house Kath saw the wolves gathering outside. She stopped short but they had already smelt her. Turning back she ran to the centre of the small town where the notice board was, and hurriedly used the charcoal remaining from the night’s bonfire to scrawl a warning.

“Three werewolves walk among you, I have provided help, you know who you are.”

Before she could get any further a screech from above made her look up. An eagle was circling overhead with something gripped tightly in its talons. The growling behind her signified that the wolves had caught her, and she brought her gaze down to meet that of the largest beast. She steeled herself, waiting for the inevitable attack, sure she could find a way out once they leaped, but the first strike came from a place she had not anticipated. Something heavy landed on her head with an audible ‘thunk’ and both she and the object fell to the ground dazed. Unable to focus enough to stand she lay helplessly as the wolves mauled her stricken body under the watchful gaze of the turtle that had delivered the fatal blow from above. Closing her eyes, she prayed desperately that the villagers would find a way to defeat these fiends.



Night 1 ~ Kath, killed by a turtle in an aerial attack ~ Innocent.



Day 1 has now begun. Wolves stop PMing, villagers start talking.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

A turtle? How... bizarre.

Here are the evil ones, so say I. ;)

Boromir
Sauce
TGWBS

Because their initials spell out Big Scary Things.

[Boromir88]

What a surprise, my job is never easy. I guess I could just kill the person and leave without anyone noticing hmmm....(Boromir takes out a slip of paper and reads to himself) : Writ of Assassination- Target- Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant. Interesting I wonder if she's one of these wolves too.

"What's that you got there," A lady of the village came up and asked.

"Oh nothing, just some errands." (crumbles it up and stuffs it in his pocket). "So, we have wolves do we? And 3 of them? I don't know this Kath lady, but it sure doesn't look good."

[Formendacil]

Day 1s, how I hate thee... let me count the ways!

Okay, I won't count the ways... that's about as pointless as Day 1s are. What would I do with them, once I'd counted?

Anyway, I'm here... I soon won't be here, then I will be here, then I won't be here for a long while... then I'll vote, and then Day 1 will be over.

How droll, to be here so early, with so little to say...

I'll be back post-midnight, my time. Meanwhile, I have no suspicions. Why should I? Only Marcólië Lamen was ever known on this site for a close affinity with turtles- and she's not playing. Had it been a frog, I could at least suspect Celuien.

Be back later.

[Cailín]

Ai no! KATH! My dearest, my greatest friend, oh my soul and happiness! What evil struck thee? How can I live now? How can we all live now?

Oh that I had to see this day. *wails piteously*

--

Actually, I'm not sure whether I ever saw her before.

Turtles?

Must have been one of TGWBS' Pokethings.

He's odd, too. I say we lynch him immediately.

[Celuien]

Well, that was earlier than I expected! I guess I'm GMT -5, not -4. 6 PM. :rolleyes:

Poor Kath. When turtles and wolves are allies, we're in trouble. Who knows what creatures will work together next?

Now, to random suspicions...

I just don't trust that morm. Why, I hear that he'd turn his own children over to the wolves if you came right down to it! :p ;) And as for lmp, wolves just make his business better. Collusion there wouldn't surprise me. Likewise, I say that you can't trust an actor by any name, including that of tragedienne, so I'll be keeping an eye on Cailín. Ninjas are almost as bad as pirates, well-known for tricksy stunts, so I don't know about Durelin either.

And that's enough silly randomness from me for one day.

On the changling:

The changling is such a wild card that I'm not sure how to approach it. Most of the time, the changling is likely to remain with the ordinary villagers, since only six of us besides the Changling are not ordinary. For now, without any information to go on, and knowing that the Changling cannot openly give information, I'll find it easier to play as if there is no Changling, especially as the Changling is most likely to be ordinary at most times. But when we come close to the end, the Changling can have a great impact, especially if transformed to a wolf, so it may be beneficial to keep a watch for any hint of Changling behaviors as the days pass. It's also at the end, when the ratio of wolves to villagers increases, that the Changling is more likely to encounter a wolf as well.

[Boromir88]

What a surprise, I'm on Fea's list. What a shame, that vengeful attitude is going to get you into trouble one of these days.

Celuien, well the changeling is a bit of a wild card, he/she could be a big help to the wolves if he/she is changed into one. The Changeling is more of a toss-up, though the majority of the time, it should favor us. (innocent villagers that is).

I'm going to vote for

++Dancing Spawn

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

It's time for me to go to being a lumberjackess, you know, leaping from tree to tree and all that, but before I must depart I shall say what I think of this horrible murder of Kath.

A turtle was the poor girl's bane, that much is certain. A teenage mutant ninja turtle, perhaps? Suddenly that Durelin lass looks rather shady to me.

The Larch! The Pine! The Giant Redwood tree!

I'll be back after taking a nap.

[mormegil]

All I can say is I'm quite glad that Kath is dead she never sat quite right with me. I think she got what was coming her. Thought does anybody know if WW meat tastes good?

[The Saucepan Man]

*A note is delivered from the large mansion on the hill. It reads thusly*

Friends and fiends

Being an incredibly wealthy and handsome ex-chariot racer (as you are all no doubt aware) I have no wish to endanger myself, nor to socialise with you common villager types. I will therefore remain secluded in my well-guarded mansion for as long as I can. I do nevertheless wish to assist the village in any way that I can. Being blessed with the gift of foresight, I have foreseen much of that which will pass over the coming Days, and have deigned to share some of my knowledge with you. Here it is. Enjoy.

Lhuna - Will rant like a lhunatic in bursts of activity over short periods each day when no one else is around. Will be lynched early for her behaviour, despite being pure as the driven snow.
Cailín - Either a Seer or a Wolf. If the former, we are in luck. If the latter, we are all dead.
Nilp - Will confuse everyone by trying to stay alive and be lynched for his trouble.
Fea - Will confuse everyone because that’s what she does. Will be continuously suspected yet somehow survive to the end, when she will devour the remaining innocents.
Celuien - Bound to be a Wolf this time surely. We should lynch her pretty soon.
Form - Will declare how much he hates Day 1s throughout Day 1. Will seemingly be of little help, yet has the means to turn the tide in the end.
TGWBS - Will be suspiciously quiet and face the gallows early in consequence. He’s innocent, though.
Lommy - Will natter on endlessly, putting forward conflicting theories and flip-flopping at every turn. Somehow though, she will survive to the end and be eaten by Fea.
Nogrod - Incapable of being foul and feeling fair. If he seems genuine, he is. If he seems beastly, he is.
lmp - Will come under serious suspicion after a few Days, provoking one of his famous rants. It will not serve him well and he will be lynched. Happily, he will take a Wolf with him.
Tom - Will fly under everyone’s radar and join Fea in the feast at the end. Either that or he will find himself on the menu.
Caran - Will contribute thoughtfully until she is lynched for seeming too innocent to be true. She actually is.
Findëasëa - From a quiet start, will gather momentum. Could hold the key to saving us all.
spawn - If her analyses are thorough, she’s innocent. If not, she’s a Wolf. My money’s on the former.
Mith - Will get annoyed when she comes under suspicion for contributing only at certain times. Will come under even more suspicion when she gets annoyed. But we don’t want to kill our Ranger now, do we?
morm - Is innocent and will be killed by the Wolves early on, before he is able to take charge.
Durelin - Deadly under the cover of darkness. She’s not a Wolf, though. She’s the Changeling.
Boromir - Thinks that he’s deadly under the cover of darkness. But he is neither Wolf, Hunter nor Changeling. Just an Ordo with delusions of grandeur. He will be lynched before the end.
Sauce - Will be cruelly and savagely ripped apart by the Wolves tonight. Either that or they will leave him alive to gather suspicion as the Days wear on. He’s innocent, though, and will save the village if he survives to the end.

Heed these words. For they will serve you well.

Signed

~The Saucepan Kid~

PS Absolutely no autographs. Not even for your kids. So there!

[The Saucepan Man]

PPS The likelihood is that the Changeling will end up on the village's side at the end. Ergo she should act on behalf of the village throughout, even when she chooses a Wolf's identity to steal at Night. Use the power of the Wolves against them, my dear, that's my advice.

[The Saucepan Man]

PPPS

+ + Feanor of the Peredhil

Because she's a Wolf, of course!

[Celuien]

PPS The likelihood is that the Changeling will end up on the village's side at the end. Ergo she should act on behalf of the village throughout, even when she chooses a Wolf's identity to steal at Night. Use the power of the Wolves against them, my dear, that's my advice.
Interesting advice. Being a perpetually innocent villager (;)), I heartily approve and second the recommendation.

And, my goodness! Two early votes! First Boromir, then The Saucepan Kid. That's rather different... :rolleyes:

Might as well start the vote tally for convenience's sake later toDAY when the votes start piling up.

1. Boromir --> Spawn (Spawn - 1)
2. SPM -> Feanor (Spawn - 1, Feanor - 1)

[littlemanpoet]

Grave Digger reporting to the village. I shall now catch up on the discussion.

[littlemanpoet]

Suspicionés Randomnarum:

Wolves:

Saucy - of course; 'tis a matter of form.
Celuien - a marriage made in Thangorodrim
Formendacil - he's always a werewolf when I'm in the village. Just the way it is.

Nobody has said anything particularly noteworthy, so I'm done here for now.

[Boromir88]

Celuien, I would like to point you out to Code 101: B-13 Section 99105, Paragraph 4.3 on the town charter:
The votes will be retractable, with as many changes of vote as wanted permitted. The last name voted for at the deadline will be counted.
Therefor, I can do this and I precisely mean to do this...

--Spawn

++Sauce


Think of it this way Sauce, I'm saving you from being devoured by wolves, atleast now you can still have a body and be buried (or cremated- whatever your preference) the proper way...instead of being ripped to shreds by wolves at night. Aren't I a nice guy?

[Celuien]

Doh. Retractables. I knew that, but old habits of checking vote timing and making lists die hard, you know. ;)

Shall I attempt to keep my list updated? Probably not.

[Findëasëa]

Poor Kath, who met her unfortunate, although slightly ironic, ‘downfall’ in the form of a plummeting reptile. Although this tragedy is quite appalling, we must move on to better aid the village.

As far as keeping track of votes, it seems like it would be beneficial to keep track of all of the votes… regardless of weather they may change or not. So maybe the end list could look something like this:

1. A > B (B - 1)
2. F > G (B – 1, G - 1)
3. A > G (B – 1 retracted, G - 2)
4. Z > B (B – 1, B – 1 retracted, G - 2)

Does that sound like a good idea? I have never used retractable votes before so if someone has a better idea we should use it. It just seems like it is better than changing the whole list each time and it also gives us an idea of how votes have changed over each day.

[Findëasëa]

The updated list for today would be:
1. Boromir --> Spawn (Spawn - 1)
2. SPM -> Feanor (Spawn - 1, Feanor - 1)
3. Boromir -> SPM (Spawn – R1, Feanor -1, SPM -1)

The R instead of the word retracted seemed less confusing.

[Caranlondien]

Alas! Poor, dear Kath! She always used to ask to hear my latest poems.

To her unhappy head came a hurtling disc,
A terrible turtle, now turned fatal risk.

Now, on to business. We've three wolves to catch! I have to say I love watching people deal with Day 1. LMP, SPM, and Feanor have given us some interesting theories. Quite straightforward, you three are!

On the other hand, there's Nogrod, with his newfangled "hamburger restaurant". We've always wondered what he put in those hamburgers... Might he be a wolf bent on deadly culinary success?

[Caranlondien]

Well, I must sleep. I'll be back before the deadline, but just to be on the safe side:

++Celuien

...because she's a ketchup grower, and I can't think of a word that rhymes with "ketchup". The sooner we get rid of her, the less necessary it is that I work her and her unrhymable occupation into the epic poem I'll be writing and publishing when this ordeal is over.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I woke up this morning thinking of DotA. I'm trying to master Broodmother now, and I'm wondering, Do I really need a Sange and Yasha if I plan to build the Butterfly?

Then I got hold of the newspaper, and saw the the Filipinos are now in 14th place in the Turin Chess Olympiad, after trouncing the Icelanders 3.5-0.5 (best game in that round (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1415497), although the last move, 22. Qe5# is not there.) At the same time, the Filipinas beat the Finnish women, 2.5-0.5. Whee! Go Philippines! Show those ex-Soviet republics what true chess is!

(EDIT: I just found out as I got online that they lost to China 0.5-3.5. :( )

So, now I'm motivated to come up with plans to help us avenge my daughter's death.

We have two options: go for the middle game quick kill, or take the safe endgame win. I'll explain both in detail.

The first option involves expert tactical playing, actively hunting werewolves and the like. The problem is that it's gifted-intensive; once we start losing the gifteds we'll be caught looking the wrong way and we're bound to lose the endgame.

The second plan involves exchanging major pieces (lynching possible threats). Par example, morm, Sauce, and Fea. The problem with this plan is that we lose time hunting werewolves, but at least, even when we lose the gifteds, we won't have to worry about these chappies (who are excellent at exuding an innocent feel) turning beastie on us.

So, here's my vote.

++The Saucepan Man

Because I'm not yet avenged. :p

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I feel so important that y'all are so keen on me just now. ;) Sad, really... used to be that when somebody tried to kill me, I knew they were evil... or just trying to find out how my Great Glass Feavator works... or getting the recipe for Gobstoppers... you all know the drill, I'm sure, especially with the enthusiasm with which dentists seem to approach my customers. :)

Nowadays? No... nobody trusts poor Fea. And she's almost always pure as the ingredients she puts into sweets as sweet as she is. Sure, sometimes the sweet is a little nutty, but you know the old saying... Almond Joy's got nuts, Mounds don't. Must be Nilp and Spam don't like Almond Joys, but such is the sad lot of a confectionist working in a small town.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

That reminds me. Shortie hasn't caught Wartortle yet, hasn't he? If he had . . .

Does anybody have an Electabuzz here? How about a Zapdos?

I thought you were a chess ex-world champion.

Well, you can't exactly use the Nimzo-Indian on a turtle that blasts targets with water, can you?

[Cailín]

About the Changeling, Celuien, I don't think s/he becomes a threat to this village till much later on. As s/he is only ever wolvish during Night time, s/he shall be primarily on the village's side. Because of the Seer-like quality of the role, the wolves will probably have slain this wildcard far before it becomes a liability to us. Otherwise, I think it's a case of let's worry when we need to worry.

Well, I had this really nice story worked out for this village, but -and it's quite tragic really, tragic, tragic- somehow I lost it into virtually reality so I shall give you a brief summary. Soon in a theatre near you, with I, the Leading Lady, in a role of such dramatics, passion and misguided innocence, it has never been shown before.

Summary: We're all going to die. Lhuna will be first.

++LHUNARDAWEN

Oh no, this Kath was first, huh? Well, death by a flying turtle just lacks the finesse to work on stage.

(More reason hopefully to arrive after a nice, long day of classes. See you all tonight)

[Formendacil]

As promised, after having been gone for a while, I am back... and destined to be gone again and back again at least once more ere the village's day is over.

Don't know why I bother... there's nothing of use happening. But a promise is a promise, and I'm a wanderer of my word.

As usual, someone sums up all the stereotypes for us (this time it was Saucy), throwing in a few off-the-cuff remarks. Some people sum up what's happened so far (that would be me). There's been confusion about the rules (retractable votes, see Celuien). There's been blessedly little discussion about the new role (the Changling). And, retractable votes being the norm, there has been some voting.

All in all, the same old, same old...

.... be back later, after someone has said something suspicious and is looking likely to be lynched for it.

[Nogrod]

Killed by an eagle using a turtle! So we'll just figure out all the turtle- and eaglelike characters and put them in a line to be questioned... :p

But really. I think we can do better than this. The feel in the village is like we were all gathered on a picnic. Still we quite definitively have to lynch someone in the evening. And this way we just end up with wild guesses (and messing it all up with all these retractions).

This Changeling, though is our real asset - as soon as s/he realizes it truly. I'm in total agreement with Spm here:
The likelihood is that the Changeling will end up on the village's side at the end. Ergo she should act on behalf of the village throughout, even when she chooses a Wolf's identity to steal at Night. Use the power of the Wolves against them, my dear, that's my advice.I would add to this, that the Changeling - if alive on Day4 or something - should actually take her/his role as our second seer by then. S/he's not allowed to say that she knows the things because of her role, but no one can deny any one of us to write f.ex. "I just know that X, Y & Z are innocents and W is a wolf". I think we should be on the lookout for that kind of messages later on the game - and the Changeling should make them. With two seers, we're having the upper hand here.

[Thinlómien]

Poor Kath.
May she rest in peace.

I think the Changeling is an advantage to the village in most cases. If she (I use feminine pronouns of all unknowns) chooses a wolf, she can mess the wolves' plans by killing someone they don't plan to kill. If she chooses an ordo, we know for sure that she's on our side.

The only problem about her is that she can mess the gifteds' plans as well as the wolves' plans. :rolleyes: Anyway, if we have stupid gifteds (which I hope we don't) that can be an advantage as well. Besides, even then she's not evil.

Retractable votes create confusion. There are lots of early votes thrown around... I understand people just want to stir the discussion a bit, or have fun, but wouldn't that make a perfect cover for a wolf? Especially when there's plenty of these random votes around...

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Well, these retractable votes are sure fun to play with, and they probably will be used as bluffs on both Good and Evil side, but usually when someone has received a vote, the villagers have been able to draw conclusions throughout the Day about who voted for whom and how they did react. Now with the votes flying around, receiving one isn't a big deal, so if we want to get somewhere toDay, I'd suggest making as serious theories as possible. I don't mean that we'd need to abandon the Day 1 frolicing, it's quite fun, really, but I think there is often plenty of material for something more concrete, too, than just the village banter.

PPS The likelihood is that the Changeling will end up on the village's side at the end. Ergo she should act on behalf of the village throughout, even when she chooses a Wolf's identity to steal at Night. Use the power of the Wolves against them, my dear, that's my advice. That's what I was thinking, too. The rules don't specify if the Changeling should work for the Wolves' benefit if s/he stumbles across one. Seeing that the Changeling has the power to decide on the Night's kill, s/he could just pick someone who looks the most suspicious to him/her (I assume s/he can't choose to kill the Wolf whose role s/he stole) - or can't the Wolves kill each other?

[Thinlómien]

I could maybe join the "I hate Day 1s"-club. Everybody's just babbling nonsense except a few changeling-speculations.

I would like to say that Cailín's usually more reasonable and her behaviour today worries me, but the prevailing conditions being retractable votes and Day 1, I really can't say anything, except that whoever the wolves are it's easy to hide for them toDay.

I think that it's quite probable that at least one wolf-on-wolf-vote will be thrown toDay and be retracted.

My lunch break draws to its end, so I have to go. I will be back before Nightfall...

edit: xed with spawn

[Nogrod]

I know this may sound futile to some, but I still think we should explore, or at least pay heed to all possible (even though unprobable) sides of the game dynamics when there are new things around.

We all were asked about our animal for the game. Now it was actually an Eagle and a Turtle that killed Kath. I don't know, whether it helps us a lot toDay (we can always speculate about them if we wish), but if the same three animals seem to appear on the nightly kills, we should probably take them more seriously.

I agree with Spawn and Lommy about looking more closely the votes cast early on and also the banter.
= Spawn
Seeing that the Changeling has the power to decide on the Night's kill, s/he could just pick someone who looks the most suspicious to him/her (I assume s/he can't choose to kill the Wolf whose role s/he stole) - or can't the Wolves kill each other?I kind of remember that she can't kill the wolf she picked, but she is able to kill another wolf. And then of course she may reveal the wolf she picked later (among a possible host of innocents). That's why I'd ike to call her our second Seer. Now if we could just come up with means for the Changeling and the Seer to distribute the picks among themselves so that they wouldn't overlap, like the one picking up the loudmouths and the other the quieter ones or something...

[Lhunardawen]

What?! Kath dead? Three werewolves? This wasn't in the pamphlet...

Wait, Animalia? What am I doing here? I'm supposed to be in Animalta! :rolleyes:

Oh well...

There's only one thing I can say right now: Form is the Changeling. Look at him, he's a homeless wanderer.

Day Ones are simply wonderful, aren't they?

[Lhunardawen]

After a bit of thinking - directionless for the most part - I finally understood what Nogrod meant by calling the Changeling the second Seer. Doh! He'll know the roles and get to play them for a time. With there having more innocents than fiends, then he's more likely to pick an innocent, and a well-timed revelation of what he knows and what the Seer knows will lead us closer to victory - even without double lynches.

A downside, though a bit unlikely, here is if the Changeling is inherently evil and chooses to play for the dark side. Like if he catches the Seer one Night and a wolf the next, he could kill the Seer for the lycans. Unlikely, as I said, though still very probable.

I don't know about you guys, but I hate it when someone holds this much power.

[littlemanpoet]

Frolic frolic

Feels like early morning here and the graves don't dig themselves. However I have a moment.

++ FORMENDACIL

I just don't trust him. Lupine. Wolvish. Sneak.

[Lhunardawen]

I guess I must be off. I leave you with

++THE GUY WHO BE SHORT

because who knows what beast he might use against one of us next?

Now, if you'll excuse me...which way is the hut where I'm staying?

[Boromir88]

I don't understand all the gloom about retractable votes. They could be a great benefit to the village. Let's say if you're a wolf, instead of one carefully planned vote, you can go back and change your strategy, perhaps to save a partner, perhaps to lynch a suspected gifted...etc. See wolves no who's on their side, retractable votes can be a benefit to them, but also to their own demise.

Also, retractable votes have no bearing on the voting record, which is still an important key to deciding who's a wolf and who isn't.

Since I'm innocent I can't say how retractable votes benefit me. That will only give the wolves clues to my thought process, and inside information to my own mind. And that's not good, if the wolves know their victims they are much more dangerous. So, I prefer to with hold information as to some things that I feel like doing (retracting votes for instance).
Retractable votes create confusion. There are lots of early votes thrown around... I understand people just want to stir the discussion a bit, or have fun, but wouldn't that make a perfect cover for a wolf? Especially when there's plenty of these random votes around...~Thinlomien
If this is directed to me, I accept your challenge...

--Sauce

++Lommy

Retractable votes create confusion? The only confusion it would create a hastle for is for Kath...who's now dead, so it shouldn't matter. Please explain, I want to hear what makes retractable votes "confusing?" (Note: Anyone can step up to the plate on this one if they have an explanation...I'm merely trying to understand this view of retractable votes being confusing and useless. I've explained the why not, now I want to hear the "why's").

[Thinlómien]

After a bit of thinking - directionless for the most part - I finally understood what Nogrod meant by calling the Changeling the second Seer. Doh! He'll know the roles and get to play them for a time. With there having more innocents than fiends, then he's more likely to pick an innocent, and a well-timed revelation of what he knows and what the Seer knows will lead us closer to victory - even without double lynches.

A downside, though a bit unlikely, here is if the Changeling is inherently evil and chooses to play for the dark side. Like if he catches the Seer one Night and a wolf the next, he could kill the Seer for the lycans. Unlikely, as I said, though still very probable.

I don't know about you guys, but I hate it when someone holds this much power.Well, I don't like the situation very much either, but we just have to cope with it.

Well, let's hope the Changeling plays on the good side and if she plays on the wrong side, she doesn't catch the seer. But as said before, it would profit the Changeling herself more if she was on the Good side.

And more frolicing... :rolleyes: I hope the situation is a bit better when I come back this evening. (I'm in +3 GMT.)

Day One is pretty useless on Day One, but on the next Days, it is usually even more useful than one could suspect.

edit: xed with Boromir

[Thinlómien]

I didn't say retractables are not a benefit to the village, because they are, in some situations. I just don't like people toying with them.

And now I'm really going. I'll be back.

[Celuien]

Morning stop in...

++ NILP

Because someone has to vote for him. ;)

And I don't like the lynch SPM, Morm and Fea plan.

Possibly to be retracted later.

[tom bombariffic]

This is going to be an interesting day.

At the moment, no-one has said anything to majorly rouse my suspicions - a symptom of first-day-itis, I suspect. I can't guarantee that I will be back by voting time, though I hope to be, and so I will cast a vote for

++Boromir88

To explain, there were just a couple of niggling things about his long post. He says that

[retractable votes] can be of great benefit to the village

but follows this up by saying that

Since I'm innocent I can't say how retractable votes benefit me

I also found the emphasis on his own innocence very overt.

There is no real evidence against boromir. But the above caught my suspicious attention in a way that no other posts had done so far, so I have voted with my instinct, which is the best way to get started on a group of people with clean slates.

Glad to be in the village.

bombariffic

[Mithalwen]

Just checking in ... going to read but probably won't be able to comment til after work. Busy time in the aura industry....

[Mithalwen]

I have always supported retractable votes and they can benefit the village but I know how annoying it is for the poor dead moderator to keep track. So I shan't change my vote at a whim. I do realise since I am going to be around until fairly near the end of the day it won't affect me so much.

Personally I do find frivolous voting and changing suspicious. The wolves have most to gain, in my opinion, from creating confusion. A vote should always be a serious thing - this is life and death remember not picking a restaurant.

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, I have to get my thoughts down, given that I seem to make a habit of dying on Night 2. :rolleyes:

It would seem that my retainers have fled in fear and my mansion is left unguarded. So I have no option but to seek security amongst my fellow villagers, even if not all of you commoners are to my taste (particularly those amongst you harbouring secret fangs and Wolvish pangs). But, as I said, no autographs. I know that it must be a great privilege for you to find yourselves in my esteemed company. But, please, restrain yourselves.

First off, a note to Nilp:

I CUSS CANINE NOTE

Trust me? Well, I appreciate that it might be difficult for you, but you should (unless you are hiding a furry pelt, which is distinctly possible).

Some good thoughts coming out on the Changeling. It is clear that she has potential to be extremely powerful. After all, she will after a few Days have a great deal of knowledge. Quite possibly more than our Seer. And knowledge is power, right?

Each Night, the Changeling will learn the identity of another villager. And she has the advantage over the Seer in knowing her own identity, something the Seer will never know. And if she has the good fortune of actually picking the Seer one Night, she will learn the identity of two villagers that Night. So, although the Seer has an additional Night in which to dream (the Night just passed), the Changeling is likely over time to gain even more knowledge.

So how should the Changeling use that power? Lhuna has suggested that she might use it to benefit the Wolves. The Changeling would be foolish indeed were she to do such a thing. The only way she can win in this way is by assuming the identity of a Wolf in circumstances where, at the end of a Day, the innocents (including her) outnumber the Wolves by one. What are the chances of that happening? It is far more likely that she will die before she is able to get that far. And even if she survives that long, she will, unless she knows the identity of a Wolf who has not already been lynched, have to make an educated guess, and that could go awry.

If, on the other hand, the Changeling uses her power for good, she has a far greater chance of ending up on the winning side. This is because she will be able to use her own knowledge to augment that of the Seer. If both the Changeling and the Seer are able to survive for a few Days, their pooled knowledge will (as I think Nogrod suggested) be sufficient to give the village a great chance of victory. Furthermore, if the Changeling knows the identity of either the Ranger or a Wolf if and when her identity becomes apparent, she will be able to use that knowledge to preserve her life for one more Night at least.

So, Changeling, play for the village. You know it makes sense.

One question, though. Will we learn the identity of the Changeling after she is killed? I assume that we will, but it is important to be sure on this.

And now some thoughts on what has passed already today. First, the votes:

Boro => spawn (spawn-1)
SpM => Fea (spawn-1, Fea-1)
Boro ≠> spawn => SpM (Fea-1, SpM-1)
Caran => Celuien (Fea-1, SpM-1, Celuien-1)
Nilp => SpM (Fea-1, SpM-2, Celuien-1)
Cailín => Lhuna (Fea-1, SpM-2, Ceuien-1, Lhuna-1)
Elempi => Form (Fea-1, SpM-2, Ceuien-1, Lhuna-1, Form-1)
Lhuna => TGWBS (Fea-1, SpM-2, Ceuien-1, Lhuna-1, Form-1, TGWBS-1)
Boro ≠> SpM => Lommy (Fea-1, SpM-1, Ceuien-1, Lhuna-1, Form-1, TGWBS-1, Lommy-1)
Celuien => Nilp (Fea-1, SpM-1, Ceuien-1, Lhuna-1, Form-1, TGWBS-1, Lommy-1, Nilp-1)
Tom => Boro (Fea-1, SpM-1, Ceuien-1, Lhuna-1, Form-1, TGWBS-1, Lommy-1, Nilp-1, Boro-1)

Hmm. Having fun with the retractable votes are we?

I tend to agree with Boromir that, as we have retractable votes, we should try to use them to our advantage. I intend to do so. There are a number of ways in which this can be done, but like Boro I will leave people to work this out for themselves. I agree, Mith, that they should not be used on a whim. But they can be used tactically, and that may involve changing votes a number of times. Yes, Wolves can use them too. But they can also be caught out using them.

Because of what he has said in this regard, I am inclined to trust Boro for now. I am also inclined to trust Nogrod because he has shared some good thoughts on the Changeling role and because he is coming across as genuine. Some good thoughts from him too on the “Animalia” theme, which are worth bearing in mind. As I said, a Nogrod that seems genuine most likely is genuine. Celuien, Lhuna and spawn too are looking more innocent than not in my eyes at the moment, for their contributions to the Changeling and retractable votes debates.

On the other hand, I am currently concerned about the following:

Fea
Form
Lommy
Nilp
Caran
Cailín

Fea because of her reaction to the “suspicions” that were voiced about her. It’s worth looking at exactly what she said:

I feel so important that y'all are so keen on me just now. ;) Sad, really... used to be that when somebody tried to kill me, I knew they were evil... or just trying to find out how my Great Glass Feavator works... or getting the recipe for Gobstoppers... you all know the drill, I'm sure, especially with the enthusiasm with which dentists seem to approach my customers. :)

Nowadays? No... nobody trusts poor Fea. And she's almost always pure as the ingredients she puts into sweets as sweet as she is. Sure, sometimes the sweet is a little nutty, but you know the old saying... Almond Joy's got nuts, Mounds don't. Must be Nilp and Spam don't like Almond Joys, but such is the sad lot of a confectionist working in a small town.Er, it’s only me who has voted for you and that was a random vote (when initially cast, at least). Boro simply commented on your inclusion of him on your own random list and Nilp mentioned you in passing as part of his “kill the loudmouths” strategy (of which more in a moment). Yet apparently this amounts to everyone wanting to kill you and nobody trusting you. Yeah, right! Methinks ye doth protest too much, my lady. Yes, your reaction is peppered liberally with smilies and banter. But that only serves to emphasise its suspicious nature, in my view. You are indeed one to watch and, contrary to my initial intention, I may just now stick with my vote.

Form and Lommy I mistrust because of their continued railing against Day 1s as being useless. I happen to disagree. There is much that we can learn from Day 1. In my view, some reactions have already quite possibly been rather telling. And what is said today may become yet more useful in the Days to come. It serves the Wolves’ interests to keep Day 1s uneventful, to add little of use to the debate themselves and to remain non-committal. And what better way to do that than to rant on about little else other than how awful Day 1s are. Which is precisely what Form and Lommy have done. Indeed, Lommy went further and sought to muddy the waters of the Changeling and retractable votes debates.

I am concerned about Nilp for his lynch the “loudmouths” strategy, and not because it produced a vote for me. I am all for lynching loudmouths if they act suspiciously. But I do not agree with lynching them just because they are loudmouths. If only the quiet villagers remain at the end, then it makes the Wolves’ job so much easier. That said, this village seems rather short on quiet villagers, and Nilp’s strategy looks like a bold one for a Wolf to suggest, so I am less concerned about him than the others.

Finally, I am slightly wary of Caran and Cailín for jumping on the “early retractable votes bandwagon” which Boro and I started. Seeing how retractable votes were being used by others from the outset, a Wolf would be only to keen to jump in and place an early vote (which may be changed later, if necessary) with little or no reasoning. And that’s precisely what Caran and Cailín did. Caran cast her vote for Celuien, whom I had randomly voiced suspicion of, while Cailín went for Lhuna, generally known as a traditional early lynch target for Wolves. It’s not enough to warrant a vote yet, but I’ll be keeping my eye on them.

As for the remaining villagers, I currently have no view.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Now that's just silly, Sauce. We all know that when I'm a wolf I tell everybody. :p

No, seriously though. It's day one and all I'm doing is sitting back to watch the banter. That post was purely a "Hey, I'm still around.", only in-character. I saw you having fun with yours and wanted to play. *looks vaguely pitiful and cute* But yeah... I noticed in my last lifetime that when I don't do much but sit back and watch, I successfully identify a vast number of bad guys. Given that and the fact that I'm on a bit of a time crunch right now anyhow, it should work out nicely.

As for retractable voting, I don't plan to partake. My vote will be my vote.

As for the changeling... I'll think more on this aspect of our village and maybe post thoughts later.

[The Saucepan Man]

I take your point about being in-character. You are an astute one, I’ll give you that, which does make me wonder whether a Wolfish Fea would react to what amounted to very little in such a suspicious way. That said, I would not put it past you to be masking with your banter a subliminal message to the village not to lynch you.

Also, if you are pressed for time and content to sit back and watch, why do you feel the need to comment every time that suspicion is raised about you? I note that your reaction is now more subdued. Is that an attempt to redress the previous over-reaction?

I remain suspicious. But I am conscious of the fact that I always find you suspicious, and that this may be clouding my judgement. Moreover, I am judging you on what you have said, whereas there are still a fair few here who have said little or nothing.

OK. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt for now and direct my vote instead to my other main suspect.

- - FEANOR OF THE PEREDHIL
+ + FORMENDACIL

All this ranting about Day 1s does not help the village at all. And he has said precious little else of use, while making sure that his voice is still heard. A vocal yet non-committal villager is a suspicious villager in my eyes.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

A lot of people are acting more carelessly than usual. Yes, it might be just that villagers want to change their style every now and then, but it might also be a wolf with an identity crisis.

The villager's who are looking different in that sense are Boromir, Formendacil and perhaps Cailín.

Form seems more frustrated and complains about Day One more than usually. He has posted twice, but he hasn't really said anything. There's no need to decide beforehand that Day Ones are horrible and act in a gloomy and unhelpful way, you know. There are other sides in this game, too, than scrolling through pages and pages for making analyses. I find Day 1s to be great - only a bit different from the rest of the Days.
Form has no suspicions since he can't associate a turtle with any of the villagers, so he gives a heads-up concerning his comings and goings.
He says that things are going normally, and he'll be back when someone has managed to make themselves a lynching candidate.

Boromir, on the other hand, is more fickle than usual. First he posts in character that he wants to assassinate spawn, and he says that things doesn't look good.

He isn't surprised to be found on Fea's list of "Big Scary Things", but he says that Fea's vengeful attitude is going to get her into trouble. Is that a... threat? He votes for spawn.

Boromir points out that the votes are retractable, and he sure is taking an advantage of that. He changes his vote for Sauce, and says that he's saving Sauce from being ripped apart at Night.

He defends retractable votes, but doesn't explain how they're going to help him. Boromir gives an example how these votes benefit the wolves, but doesn't tell how he thinks that they help innocents in general. He votes for Lommy because she said that retractable votes can confuse us and he disagrees.

I think the votes cause confusion because it's harder to keep track of how many votes someone currently has, and why someone changed their opinion. I expect to see some interesting "excuses" for changing a vote as the Days pass by which might later help those who have ridiculous amounts of time to browse the voting records while making analyses, but madly voting anyone who crosses your road isn't the only way to take advantage of the new system. Since everyone knows that they can change their votes whenever they like, casting a vote doesn't have the same weight in gauging lynchees' reactions since, especially toDay, I suspect that people want to have a bit of fun with voting for each other before they decide on their final vote.


Cailín has been hastier and more careless than usual. On the other hand she's a tragedienne, but she has been quick to accuse people with "Day 1" reasons. She voted for Lhuna because... it was in the script? However, this has been crazier first Day than normally, and that voting frenzy seems contagious. She promised to be more like herself later, so I look forward to that.


Sauce, that's a good way to tally the votes, I think. If only I could find a button in my keyboard for making that unequal mark...

[The Saucepan Man]

I think the votes cause confusion because it's harder to keep track of how many votes someone currently has ...Here you go m'dear:

Boro => spawn (spawn-1)
SpM => Fea (spawn-1, Fea-1)
Boro ≠> spawn => SpM (Fea-1, SpM-1)
Caran => Celuien (Fea-1, SpM-1, Celuien-1)
Nilp => SpM (Fea-1, SpM-2, Celuien-1)
Cailín => Lhuna (Fea-1, SpM-2, Celuien-1, Lhuna-1)
Elempi => Form (Fea-1, SpM-2, Celuien-1, Lhuna-1, Form-1)
Lhuna => TGWBS (Fea-1, SpM-2, Celuien-1, Lhuna-1, Form-1, TGWBS-1)
Boro ≠> SpM => Lommy (Fea-1, SpM-1, Celuien-1, Lhuna-1, Form-1, TGWBS-1, Lommy-1)
Celuien => Nilp (Fea-1, SpM-1, Celuien-1, Lhuna-1, Form-1, TGWBS-1, Lommy-1, Nilp-1)
Tom => Boro (Fea-1, SpM-1, Celuien-1, Lhuna-1, Form-1, TGWBS-1, Lommy-1, Nilp-1, Boro-1)
SpM ≠> Fea => Form (SpM-1, Celuien-1, Lhuna-1, Form-2, TGWBS-1, Lommy-1, Nilp-1, Boro-1)

[Boro] defends retractable votes, but doesn't explain how they're going to help him.I can understand how he might use them and why he's not prepared to explain this for the benefit of the Wolves.

Since everyone knows that they can change their votes whenever they like, casting a vote doesn't have the same weight in gauging lynchees' reactions since, especially toDay, I suspect that people want to have a bit of fun with voting for each other before they decide on their final vote.Just because someone can change their vote, it doesn't mean that they will. I still think that there is much that we can learn from the votes, even today.

Sauce, that's a good way to tally the votes, I think. If only I could find a button in my keyboard for making that unequal mark...Try cutting and pasting from Word.

[Caranlondien]

If only I could find a button in my keyboard for making that unequal mark...
I'd just copy and paste ;) Faster, overall... especially since the only other way I can find is inserting a symbol in Word.

Day 1 nonsense aside, so far I'm most suspicious of The Saucepan Man... And not because he said he was wary of me. His plea for the Changeling to take the villagers' side conveniently included instructions on exactly how the Changeling can win on the wolves' side. And he pretty much argued that s/he should take the villagers' side because it would be easier to be on the winning side that way. But that looks like a manipulative argument to me, as the Changeling would likely take it as a challenge to do the more difficult thing... Who among us would read that and think, "Okay, I'll take the easy option"? No, we all want grand tales to tell at the end. And I think this Changeling is a threat because of this ego factor.

--Celuien
++The Saucepan Man

EDIT: Cross-posted with The Saucepan Man

[Nogrod]

Spm: you are making a lot of sense - at least I see it that way. And if my suggestions have not been enough until now, please Changeling, read Spm's post #46 and think once more for this:
=Spm
So, Changeling, play for the village. You know it makes sense.That's your bet!

Well, surely it's possible that the game gets into a situation where the Changeling has a chance to decide the game (knowing or guessing a wolf in a 50-50 situation and killing a villager for her/him and the wolves to win - well: 50-50 + the Changeling - I suppose the Changeling is counted as a villager in the tally?). But that chance is not the most probable, particularly if the Changeling plays for the village and reveals her/his knowledge at some point! And if it goes the bad way and the Changeling wants to assure her/his victory, well, I don't see us others having any means to stop the Changeling there. That's the role given to this game and we have little means of stopping her/him in that situation. But loyalty to the good cause... :)

But I would be a bit worried about a widespread use of the retractable votes. I see one good use for early retractables, namely the chance of getting the behavioristic "action - reaction" -stuff with them from an overjumpy wolf. I do not deny the value of this one. But if the overall feeling about them is that it's just some playful villagers toying with them, we could lose some wolvish trials for bandwaggoning in the midst of them. I could see the wolves trying something like that: let's see if this lynch-proposal gets some support, if not, let's change and try differently! Or they could just hide the wolves in the making the Day1 just one piece of mockery.

And here I agree with Spm again, we just draw different conclusions: I believe Day1's are good days, for about half of the games I've been in a werecreature has been catched on Day1! So let's keep looking around... and let's not waste them with just making fun of them. If everyone plays the trickster, it's hard to see, who's the evil trickster. If everyone plays openly, the wolves will have harder time to hide themselves...

PS. I have a bunch of exams to read and have to commit a lot of time to them today, but I will be back later and try to be more particular then.

EDIT: X-posted with Spawn, SPm and Caran...

[Kath]

1) Sauce, you know how I feel about anagrams, keep them out of your posts please.

2) You have misunderstood the role of the Changeling somewhat. What side the Changeling is on depends on the person they choose at Night. If they choose a wolf they are then evil for that Night, and so will not help the village. The Changeling can't decide whether to play as an innocent or not, it is decided by the roles of the players they choose.

[Durelin]

*clang*

*hiss*

*smoke*

*woosh*

Fashionably late.

The only thing anyone is able to make out for several minutes is the faint glint of a forehead protector (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Durelin/foreheadprotector.jpg).

Then...

*sching*

*thunk*

In the confusion of the smoke bomb, a kunai (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Durelin/kunai.jpg) flies from out of the mist, fixing itself in a conveniently placed tree. Attached to it, is a mysterious note, tendrils of mist still sliding from its mysteriously torn edges.

The note reads:

++The Man
(Saucepan)

Appropriately following the airborne message, Durelin wanders lazily from the mist, her right eye busily reading over a shady looking manuscript, her left covered by her forehead protector.

We must work as a team if we are to succeed. For this, I suggest teamwork.

[the guy who be short]

I was under the impression that the Changeling played for whichever side's character they had assumed for the Day.

Sorry to come to the discussion so late. I was out hunting Pokémon from early in the morning. I only saw the odd Pidgey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidgey). There was a time when a walk in the woods would yield a score of Pidgey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidgey)[/url]s and a swarm of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caterpie"]Caterpie (http://pidgey)s. I think the Pokémon have been scared off by these werewolves, or possibly killed. But mine shall not yield so easily.

I have tried to contact the soul of Kath through my Haunter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haunter). Unfortunately, he is too high a level and ignores my orders, so we shall have no success in that direction. We must rely on what little skills we possess ourselves.

As for those who suspect me simply because I have a fondness for Pocket Monsters - what can I say against your folly? I have no Wartortle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wartortle). My Squirtle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squirtle), while I do have one, is completely under control and was safe in his Pokéball last night. I shall use my Pokémon to help the village, not to destroy it.

Nilp - I'm afraid I have no Electabuzz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electabuzz); I did capture one once, but I freed him later because I don't really see the point in owning many Pokémon at once. It doesn't allow bonds to develop. As for Zapdos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapdos), you've got to be kidding me.


Pokémon aside, I think those of you - Saucey - claiming that Day 1 can be of use are wilfully blinding yourselves. All but two of those on the village's side have no information at all to work on except our own blind accusations. Those two we do not yet trust. Day 1s are all about the wolves doing everything they can - or nothing at all - to confuse us.

Therefore, I shall vote at random. My vote shall not be retractable because no reason will be convincing enough for me to alter my stance.

My abacus tells me to vote for:

Shift Ran# x 18 + 1 = 2.656

++CAILIN

For having a role that would be spelt differently were she male.

[The Saucepan Man]

Voting update:

Boro => spawn (spawn-1)
SpM => Fea (spawn-1, Fea-1)
Boro ≠> spawn => SpM (Fea-1, SpM-1)
Caran => Celuien (Fea-1, SpM-1, Celuien-1)
Nilp => SpM (Fea-1, SpM-2, Celuien-1)
Cailín => Lhuna (Fea-1, SpM-2, Celuien-1, Lhuna-1)
Elempi => Form (Fea-1, SpM-2, Celuien-1, Lhuna-1, Form-1)
Lhuna => TGWBS (Fea-1, SpM-2, Celuien-1, Lhuna-1, Form-1, TGWBS-1)
Boro ≠> SpM => Lommy (Fea-1, SpM-1, Celuien-1, Lhuna-1, Form-1, TGWBS-1, Lommy-1)
Celuien => Nilp (Fea-1, SpM-1, Celuien-1, Lhuna-1, Form-1, TGWBS-1, Lommy-1, Nilp-1)
Tom => Boro (Fea-1, SpM-1, Celuien-1, Lhuna-1, Form-1, TGWBS-1, Lommy-1, Nilp-1, Boro-1)
SpM ≠> Fea => Form (SpM-1, Celuien-1, Lhuna-1, Form-2, TGWBS-1, Lommy-1, Nilp-1, Boro-1)
Caran ≠>Celuien => SpM (SpM-2, Lhuna-1, Form-2, TGWBS-1, Lommy-1, Nilp-1, Boro-1)
Durelin => SpM (SpM-3, Lhuna-1, Form-2, TGWBS-1, Lommy-1, Nilp-1, Boro-1)
TGWBS => Cailín (SpM-3, Lhuna-1, Form-2, TGWBS-1, Lommy-1, Nilp-1, Boro-1, Cailín-1)

Interesting that the "Sauce bandwagon" (if that it be) appears to be gathering steam. You could do worse than lynch me today, but you will not find a Wolf.

Any particular reason for your vote, Durelin?

[SpM's] plea for the Changeling to take the villagers' side conveniently included instructions on exactly how the Changeling can win on the wolves' side. And he pretty much argued that s/he should take the villagers' side because it would be easier to be on the winning side that way. But that looks like a manipulative argument to me, as the Changeling would likely take it as a challenge to do the more difficult thing... Who among us would read that and think, "Okay, I'll take the easy option"? No, we all want grand tales to tell at the end. And I think this Changeling is a threat because of this ego factor.What curious reasoning. I would have thought that the Changeling would already have worked out how she can win on the Wolves’ side. Perhaps you are right about the Changeling relishing the challenge but, if it were me, I would go for the better bet.

Sauce, you know how I feel about anagrams, keep them out of your posts please.Ulp! Consider me suitably reprimanded. :rolleyes:

In my defence, the anagram was included as a joke in response to Nilp's expressed desire for revenge. So that there can be no misunderstanding, it simply declares: “Sauce is innocent”.

If they choose a wolf they are then evil for that Night, and so will not help the village. The Changeling can't decide whether to play as an innocent or not, it is decided by the roles of the players they choose.Interesting. So presumably they cannot deliberately choose to kill a Wolf and must kill a Gifted if they know of one. And presumably, the converse also applies. If they choose an innocent or a Gifted, they must try to help the village. That does rather fetter their discretion at Night.

But, as I understand it, they still have discretion to play as they see fit during the Day. If so, I think that my reasoning still applies. The Changeling’s greatest chance of winning is still with the village. So, during the Day, they should play on the village’s side.

I have been pondering this “Animalia” theme further. As Nogrod reminded us (and it speaks in his favour), each of us chose an animal at the outset. Presumably those animals will be associated with us in some way. If so, the eagle and the tortoise may, as Nogrod suggests, be the choices of those who are Wolves. Although, if that is the case, why only two animals?

In any event, might it be worth speculating who may have chosen the eagle and the tortoise? I don’t want to lead the village on a wild goose chase, but we should consider every angle. My initial thoughts are as follows:

Eagle – A dominant personality? Someone who sees themselves as a leader? Religious and imperial associations? Form, Boro and morm seem the most likely candidates to me. (I suppose it could also apply to me, but I did not choose the eagle.)

Tortoise – Either someone with a wry sense of humour or someone who sees themselves as laid-back. Lhuna, Nilp, Lommy and Durelin spring to mind on the former reasoning.

I may be way off beam here so, if you think that there may be any merit in this theory, feel free to share your thoughts.

[the guy who be short]

Saucepan...

"Day ones are useful! Honest!"

"Let's analyse Kath's starting post!"

Spot the inconsistency.

NB: Quotes may not be represented accurately.

[The Saucepan Man]

Guy ...

Where is the inconsistency?

Why are you attempting to shut off potentially useful avenues of discussion?

You may not like Day 1s, but that does not mean that we should not at least try to use such means as are available to try to find a Wolf. :rolleyes:

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Do you really believe that Ye Moddess Goddess would intentionally include clues as to the identities of wolves in her very first post? I'm a bit surprised at the insinuation when there's a far likelier explanation for the choices.

[Findëasëa]

SPM-the eagle and the tortoise may, as Nogrod suggests, be the choices of those who are Wolves. Although, if that is the case, why only two animals?

My impression is that the animal that we each chose is one which will, somewhat humorously, aid in each of our deaths. This is supported by the fact that Kath, I think, was a turtle farmer in a 'previous life'. As for the eagle, It might have been another favorite animal of Kath's. If multiple animals continue to pop up in the deaths I think that we should revisit this theory, but it will most likely be a waste of time, as I doubt hints would be left in the narration.

X-posted with TGWBS, Sauce, and Fea

[the guy who be short]

As Fea says, the Moderator must be completely impartial. Kath would not insert clues about Werewolves in her first post. It is likely she created her death to parody either nature or Discworld.

Though I'd like to apologise for the earlier post; it does appear a bit sarky. Perhaps I should have made greater use of smilies.

[Mithalwen]

*Still at work* so shush ..I think but can't check that a famous philosopher was killed by a turtle dropped by an eagle ... or a character from mythology ..a greek anyway... hope to be back soon .... but my Guru is a workaholic....

[The Saucepan Man]

Do you really believe that Ye Moddess Goddess would intentionally include clues as to the identities of wolves in her very first post? I'm a bit surprised at the insinuation when there's a far likelier explanation for the choices.Well, each person's choice of animal is a secret known only to the Moddess and the person in question. But, if there is anything in it, you are right that they would constitute clues based on knowledge of people's personalities. I tend to agree that it's unlikely such clues would be given, but I still think that, unless and until specifically denied, it's something worth considering.

Besides, the choices of animal must mean something, right? Possibly they will only serve for narrative purposes, but I'm a sucker for conundrums and so cannot ignore things like this ... :D

[The Saucepan Man]

I think but can't check that a famous philosopher was killed by a turtle dropped by an eagle ...Aristotle, I believe. :D

[Mithalwen]

Yes that was the chappie... anyway I think we shouldn't get too distracted by such things which are liable to be a wild goose chase...:D Even on Straw Clutching Day...

[The Saucepan Man]

OK OK. Forget the animal theory if you don't like it. Personally, I will bear it in mind, but that’s my choice.

Perhaps those who have devoted their collective energy to poo-pooing it could put forward a few ideas of their own.

Or is it only me willing to risk talking myself into the noose? :rolleyes:

[Celuien]

Popping in briefly between tending the ketchup trees...

Skimmed the recent developments, and I don't like this SPM bandwagon at all. I noticed absolutely nothing suspicious about him and I'd hate to lose him so early without good reason.

Will try to return in a few hours with more.

[The Saucepan Man]

I noticed absolutely nothing suspicious about him and I'd hate to lose him so early without good reason.Actually, I have noticed a lot about me that looks (or has been made to look) suspicious. But it's most certainly not how a Wolvish Sauce would act on Day 1.

Still, a healthy dose of suspicion can sometimes be a good thing - provided it doesn't get me lynched. ;) :D

[Cailín]

The tortoise is likelier to be Kath's favourite animal (though frankly: I cannot see at all why. They are endlessly dull creatures) than that of the wolves. But you figured that out.

Some people have commented (particularly Lommy) that I seem less reasonable than usual, while I am actually seldom reasonable on (the start of) Day 1. Don't get me wrong, I love Day 1s and they usually reveal far more in hindsight than you'd think, but I like a bit of random silliness before I start taking things too seriously.

Kath's message about the Changeling is a little disconcerting, but what Sauce says is right: the Changeling still has a choice during the Day. Since the Changeling only wins on the wolves' side in an extremely specific situation, also explained by Sauce, s/he is likely to root for the villagers. However

Who among us would read that and think, "Okay, I'll take the easy option"? No, we all want grand tales to tell at the end. And I think this Changeling is a threat because of this ego factor.

Though I disagree with Caran's vote for Sauce based on this alone, I can think of some people in this village who indeed may think: if you all want me to do this, I'll do that. Of course, leading the village to victory is a grand feat as well and I think eventually everyone's survivor instinct will win. Unless Nilp is the Changeling, in which case we are doomed.

As far as I can see, the only immediate downsides of the Changeling are the following:

- if s/he dreams of a Gifted and a wolf next
- if s/he dreams of the Seer and make the Seer double dream (i.e. dream about someone they already know the identity of)

Unfortunately, it is not something s/he can avoid.

Otherwise, I am not too concerned about the Changeling just yet. Hunting him/her down early seems senseless as well, seeing as s/he could function as another Seer and will also easily be confused with the Seer. So though we may not like the power this one holds, I guess we will have to let it go for now.

The wolves are our primary targets. They have great and evil powers too, with the summoning of aerial turtles and all.

I have never played with retractable votes before so I am not quite sure how to handle them just yet. I don't find the early votes at all suspicious (though I might be biased ;) ) since they are really quite similar to random accusations. Boromir, however, seems to have made it his life goal to make the afterlife for Kath as difficult as possible and though I'd love to cast a few more random votes for people I have never voted for, I shall restrain myself for her sake.

Formendacil may be a wolf, I don't know, but he always is the same on Day 1 -to everyone's annoyance- and I don't see anything truly different about him. Of course, Form is skilled enough to not change behaviour in any role.

OK OK. Forget the animal theory if you don't like it. Personally, I will bear it in mind, but that’s my choice.

Perhaps those who have devoted their collective energy to poo-pooing it could put forward a few ideas of their own.

Honestly. Go solve some crossword puzzles. ;)

[Cailín]

Suspicions eh?

So far I am completely unsuspicious of the following:

Celuien - who is reason embodied, as always.
Spawn - who for the first time in a while seems to be genuinely on the right side again
Nogrod - just a generally warm and fuzzy feeling.
Tom & Fin - for being newbies (I am right in that, huh?) who actually attempt to make sense.

The rest of you I am less sure about. As always, I cannot think Sauce anything other than innocent, but actually believing in his innocence would make me look extremely naive.

[Thinlómien]

Tortoise – Either someone with a wry sense of humour or someone who sees themselves as laid-back. Lhuna, Nilp, Lommy and Durelin spring to mind on the former reasoning.You think I don't have penguin? :eek:

Sauce, either you were careless or then you're intently framing me. You said that I was very anti-Day1. What about this: Day One is pretty useless on Day One, but on the next Days, it is usually even more useful than one could suspect. So I'm not completely anti-Day1, you see. I just dislike them on Day1s.


Personally I do find frivolous voting and changing suspicious. The wolves have most to gain, in my opinion, from creating confusion. A vote should always be a serious thing - this is life and death remember not picking a restaurant. Exactly.

Bombariffic's point about Boro is interesting. He doesn't sit right with me either... The last time I complained about frolicing with retractables Form changed his vote to me, just like Boromir here, and if I recall correctly, he was a wolf. Form, if you remeber I'd be gald to be sure. There's also the possibility that it was in Valier's game, and then Form wasn't a wolf... Anyway, I see no reason for an innocent to act like that.

edit: xed with Cailín's later post

[Mithalwen]

OK OK. Forget the animal theory if you don't like it. Personally, I will bear it in mind, but that’s my choice.

Perhaps those who have devoted their collective energy to poo-pooing it could put forward a few ideas of their own.

Or is it only me willing to risk talking myself into the noose? :rolleyes:

No, I fully intend to risk my neck as soon as I have had a chance to make a few notes. I merely think that it is a better to concentrate on anything other players may have let slip rather than the moderator. I just think that the turtle was an amusing reference to those of us who care for such things and to set the pattern for our "daemon"'s witness of our death. If it suggests anything it might be that we should seek empirical evidence :D

OK before I get down to work, a token "in character theory". All the village should take the homeopathic remedy Aconite to cope with the shock of Kath's death. Aconite is not also known as Wolfsbane for nothing. The innocents will be destressed and the Wolves dead. Simple eh?

Right I will now search for people with black or dark red auras....

[Thinlómien]

What if we all posted our favourite animals (the animals we picked) here?

I know it might not benefit the village since the wolves will probably bluff, but I can't see a way it could harm the village either.

I think we shouldn't place too much faith in finding animal clues from the narrations because there are some people who very probably know each other's favourite animals: me and Nogrod, Lhuna and Nilp, maybe Nilp and spawn... I think it would be quite careless from the mod-Kath to use them as clues then.

If you ask my opinion, the animals are probably for death narrations, nothing else. We'll see at the end of the Day if I'm correct.

The tortoise is likelier to be Kath's favourite animal . . .As far as I know, Kath prefers turtles to tortoises.

[The Saucepan Man]

So I'm not completely anti-Day1, you see. I just dislike them on Day1s.Fair enough, but I still don’t see much substance in your contributions. Even if you don’t like Day 1s while you are in them, that is no reason not to put forward ideas, theories and speculation in the hope that it may just catch a Wolf. Only the Wolves want Day 1s to be unproductive.

So, building on my earlier thoughts, it seems to me that the best course of action for the Wolves on Day 1 will involve trying to avoid saying or doing anything that may come back to haunt them later or which may help the village. They will be non-committal, put forward few theories (certainly nothing controversial) and generally do their best to maintain a presence while saying nothing that will draw attention to them.

Of course, it is always possible that there will be an “in your face” Wolf who will be going for the bluff, behaving in a way that no one would expect a Wolf to act on Day 1 and thereby hoping to avoid being lynched, while confusing and misdirecting the village at the same time. However, that’s a risky strategy as, once suspicion is garnered, it tends to stick. I would be surprised if more than one Wolf (at most) adopted this strategy today.

With that in mind, I would divide the village as follows:

Those who have not yet said or done enough to draw any conclusions
Mith
morm
Lmp

Those who have maintained a presence while contributing little to the debate (possible Wolves)
Form
Lommy
TGWBS
Tom
Caran

Those who have contributed little, but nevertheless attracted attention to themselves (possible bold Wolves)
Nilp
Fea
Durelin

Those who have seemingly made a useful contribution (likely innocents, but possible cunning Wolves)
Lhuna
Cailín (solid recent contributions)
Celuien
Nogrod
Findëasëa
Spawn
Boro

If I had to place myself, it would be in the third category, but others may feel that I belong in the second. :rolleyes: :D

For current purposes, I am ignoring the category 1 villagers, for lack of data. I doubt that any of them will remain as quiet as they are currently being.

I believe that there is at least one Wolf, possibly two, in category 2. All of these villagers, to varying degrees, look to be exhibiting the kind of behaviour that I would expect from a Wolf on Day 1.

As for category 3, I have residual suspicions of Nilp and Fea, but they are waning. I don’t think that either would be foolish enough, as a Wolf, to allow themselves to fall into this category. Mind you, Nilp has form (courtesy of his ancestors) in this regard.

There is quite possibly a Wolf in category 4 (possibly even two, but unlikely, I think). That is the Wolf that we should fear the most, but it is also the one that we are least likely to catch today.

I am still inclined to view Nogrod and Boro as innocent, for reasons stated earlier. And I remain content with my vote for Form.

[Findëasëa]

I think that the issue of retractable votes should be looked at in greater depth. The wolves know each other’s identities and have been given the opportunity to strategize. They are better equipped than the gifted and ordinary villagers to work as a team, as they need not worry about trust. This, I feel, makes retractable votes all the more useful for them, it can be utilized by the team of wolves much more readily than by the village as a whole. Although I am sure that the wolves will be protecting themselves by not all taking a stance in this issue or taking different stances, my guess is that at least one would want to make sure to establish themselves as a retractable voter. This way, suspicion would not be thrown their way upon utilizing this tactic later in the game.
This is a list of the individuals who have voted alredy and how many times they have voted.
Boro => (3)
SpM => (2)
Caran => (2)
Nilp => (1)
Cailín => (1)
Lhuna => (1)
Celuien => (1)
Tom => (1)
Durelin => (1)
TGWBS => (1)

I am not sure that a wolf would argue as strongly as Boromir did on this issue, then again the wolves probably want to make sure that this tactic is able to be utilized later in the game. Boromir sets up a defence for future votes, saying that he did not want to reveal his thought process, as it might aid the wolves.
Since I'm innocent I can't say how retractable votes benefit me. That will only give the wolves clues to my thought process, and inside information to my own mind. And that's not good, if the wolves know their victims they are much more dangerous. So, I prefer to with hold information as to some things that I feel like doing (retracting votes for instance).
This seems like a convenient way to get away with not jusifying votes.

[Thinlómien]

Fair enough, but I still don’t see much substance in your contributions. Even if you don’t like Day 1s while you are in them, that is no reason not to put forward ideas, theories and speculation in the hope that it may just catch a Wolf. Only the Wolves want Day 1s to be unproductive. I don't put forward ideas? I disagree.

Tom & Fin - for being newbies (I am right in that, huh?) who actually attempt to make sense. Fin has played in one game before, I believe.

Any comments on my revealing the animals theory?

Those who have maintained a presence while contributing little to the debate (possible Wolves)
Form
Lommy
TGWBS
Tom
CaranTom??? He has posted only once! How do you call that "maintaining a presence"? Sauce, that's not your first alteration of what happened toDay. Whether they are intentional or unintentional, you scare me...

[The Saucepan Man]

I don't understand all this suspicion of Boro. Nor do I really understand Tom's argument against him. If he is innocent and using retractable votes as a tactic, then I can fully understand why he would not wish to explain his reasoning. Why bother setting a trap if you are going to place a ruddy great signpost next to it? His actions speak more of his likely innocence to me, than of likely Wolfishness.

I just can't see a Wolf acting in the way Boro has on Day 1. Perhaps I am wrong, and he is taking me for a fool. He is one of those capable of pulling off such an approach as a Wolf. But I think it unlikely. It would be pointless for a Wolf to be so bold as to change his vote three times in the early part of the Day, before many others have even voted. What purpose would it serve? To make it more credible when he changes his vote at a more crucial point? It seems unnecessarily risky if that is the only purpose.

I'm sticking with my gut feeling on Boro.

[Caranlondien]

Well, since the Changeling's role has been clarified, I'm inclined to leave it alone for the moment and focus on the wolves. Hmm, I wonder if The Guy Who Be Short's Poké Balls would capture them...

Tom & Fin - for being newbies (I am right in that, huh?) who actually attempt to make sense.
For the record, Fin isn't quite a newbie - she's played in one game (erm, I mean, she has one ancestor... well, that doesn't quite make sense). Doesn't really matter, though... She's looking innocent to me so far.

As for my vote for SpM, I know my suspicion was very little to go on, but it's Day 1, here. I've never played with retractable votes before, so I'm taking advantage of it. So, pretty much, I changed my vote to SpM because I wasn't quite positive I'd be able to get back toDay, and I didn't want to leave my silly vote for Celuien standing. However, I think it'd be a shame for poor ol' SpM to live through only one Day yet again. Especially since he'll be valuable to the village if he's innocent.

Problem is, I'm not quite sure who to vote for now. Boromir seems to be sowing a bit of confusion, but I think he's just having fun with Day 1. Actually, I'm most suspicious of the ones already flying under the radar - dancing spawn, mormegil, and LMP, for instance. There are others, obviously, flying under the radar, but these three I have experience with and know they'd make cunning wolves. Since I have a bit of time on my hands, I'll go back and re-read before casting my final vote.

EDIT: cross-posted with Lommy, and SpM... darn slow Internet connection...

[Findëasëa]

Tom & Fin - for being newbies (I am right in that, huh?) who actually attempt to make sense.

Sorry, I missed this before. I have played in one game.

Any comments on my revealing the animals theory?

It sounds like a good idea. Even if the animals, as I suspect, are only to be used in death-narratives of the person who supplied the animal, it would be good to put this theory to rest. The animal that I chose was the sea otter.

X-posted with SPM and Caran

[The Saucepan Man]

I'm keeping the animal theory to myself for now. I don't want to clutter the discussion up with what many seem to think (and understandably so) a red herring. And I see little point in revealing our chosen animals, at this point at least, as the Wolves will only lie if there is anything in it.

Tom??? He has posted only once! How do you call that "maintaining a presence"? Sauce, that's not your first alteration of what happened toDay.Are you purposely trying to interpret everything I say against me? Tom has said a darn sight more than morm and lmp, even if it was only one post.

My categories were based on my impressions of each villager, rather than the number of posts. His one post notwithstanding, Tom came across to me as someone who was trying to make his preence felt, but saying little of use. So I put him in category 2.

He isn't, however, high in my suspicions as, given that he is new to the game, I am prepared to cut him some slack for a day or two.

[Cailín]

As far as I know, Kath prefers turtles to tortoises.

How silly! Why would she? You're right, Lommy, my mistake.

Sauce - your categorisation makes sense, though the wolves are picked randomly and most of the people have been behaving quite as usual. They stereotypically belong to one of those boxes, if you understand...

Interestingly enough, there is one person who seems to be out of her appropriate Day 1 box, and that would be Caran. I understand your motivation for placing her there and shall be observing her closely.

As for the Boro issue: I typically get slightly annoyed when someone proclaims to have a very special plan and then I don't get it, but I always viewed that as my problem. In other words, I think he's rather innocent-looking.

Why should I reveal my animal? It's a deep, heart-breaking and tragic secret! Also, it's supposed to be a surprise. And really - we won't find clues in Kath's narrative.

cross-posted with Sauce, Lommy & Caran.

[Thinlómien]

Are you purposely trying to interpret everything I say against me? Tom has said a darn sight more than morm and lmp, even if it was only one post.

My categories were based on my impressions of each villager, rather than the number of posts. His one post notwithstanding, Tom came across to me as someone who was trying to make his preence felt, but saying little of use. So I put him in category 2.

He isn't, however, high in my suspicions as, given that he is new to the game, I am prepared to cut him some slack for a day or two.
Well, that explained it a bit. Anyway, I didn't find him being very present, so it stroke me as odd that you listed him there though he had posted only once.

I don't disagree with you that he said much in one post, but that doesn't make him "present", if you understand my logic.

And no, Sauce, I'm not trying to turn everything you say against you. You just act weirdly in my opinion and I report it. Is that bad?

[the guy who be short]

...because I have little to add to the small-talk (no-talk?) everybody is engaged in at the moment, I believe the tale of the tortoise and the eagle was propounded by Aesop as a fable. Google does not tell me how Aristotle died.

Anyway, I'll be good, or somebody is bound to accuse me of "distracting."

Retractable votes: Don't care. Probably won't use them much. Means less thought needs to be put into votes, demeaning the entire process. I can't see that innocents who are thoughtful and serious about voting in the first place will need them much; however, there are one or two advantages to them which I am too lazy to use myself, as they are quite labour intensive. Wolves will, of course, use them with ease. Spotting wolves will be far harder here due to retractable votes.

New role whose name I can't remember: Apathetic. One thing I'm confused about is whether, after being a wolf, it spends the next Day on the wolf side or the innocent side. If the latter, it will always be on the villagers' side during Daytime, and statistically, it will be on the village side the majority of the time. Therefore, I welcome it amongst us.

In conclusion, I wish my Togepi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Togepi) would evolve.

[Findëasëa]

One thing I'm confused about is whether, after being a wolf, it spends the next Day on the wolf side or the innocent side. If the latter, it will always be on the villagers' side during Daytime, and statistically, it will be on the village side the majority of the time. Therefore, I welcome it amongst us.

My understanding is that the changeling only takes the adopted role during the night.

[Mithalwen]

Three pages of notes and nothing very concrete. Except that unless my precognition is seriously on the blink I feel Sauce is genuinely on the side of the angels this time - the charm offensive is slightly unnerving but I am assuming that is his bit of "in character".

Otherwise he is being his usual scheming self, looking for loopholes in the regulations, playing about with anagrams, and using the retractable vote in an attempt to flush out Fea. Since Fea is possibly the most brazen player it is a very natural course of action.

Fea I find impossible to read - I may have to vote for her just to find out and minimise the time she has to mess with my head.

Boromir88 - I wonder about his reference then vote for Spawn. Hmmm I suspect he is not ordinary put it that way.... I expect he will post more before I have ot decide. I would hesitate to lynch him without good evidence because if he is innocent we don't want to lose him....

Fin, not ringing bells, seems likely to be fighting Nogrod for the job of vote monitor. A useful person so far....

Caran makes an early vote for a random reason - can all these early votes be earnest villages acting as "beaters" to see what will fly towards the guns? I don't really know Caran so don't know whether this is normal style or maybe the "fly-by-night" wolf ... I will hope to have a bit more to work on before decisions must be made but certainly more suspicious than most.


Tom seems to be a trying to help newcomer...nothing more so far... don't necessarily agree wiht him but don't particularly suspect either

Need to have a closer look at the others - especially Cailin, TGWBS and LMP whom are the subjects of my most indecipherable notes.

All I will add til then is that I might be tempted to lynch Formendacil if he whinges much more ~*momentarily turning into my mother*

Lots of us find Day 1 annoying but we just have to get on with it!

[mormegil]

I'm trying to catch up. I"ve got a lot to do at work today.

But

++TGWBS

Man it feels good to have you back! You can be a Kath replacement :D .

[Caranlondien]

Hmm, I thought I was being helpful... Ah, well. A short vent: What I dislike about Day 1 is that it's difficult to get used to the new mix of personalities... I always feel so lost!

Now, then. Onto business. I've been re-reading and looking for a wolf, and so far I just can't find one. I'm never very confident in my choices, probably because I don't like being wrong... but I'm sticking with my vote for SpM. The others I listed before who I feel are already managing to fly under the radar, well, I just don't feel like they've posted enough for it to be fair to vote for them on Day 1. (People hate when I do this, but...) Sorry, SpM, I guess that sort of sounds like I'm voting for you because you're loud. You'd just make too cunning of a wolf :p

This has already been called a bandwagon (3 votes?). Let's see, when I voted for SpM, he'd gotten 2 votes, one of which had been retracted. So I bumped him back up to 2, then Durelin gave the third vote (with no explanation whatsoever :rolleyes: ) So I don't really see it as a bandwagon. And anyway, all I can do is vote based on my honest suspicions.

EDIT: Cross-posted with Mithalwen and... erm, can't remember, anyway, I'm cross-posted with the last 2 posts...

[Nogrod]

Just gave myself a leave from the exams and peered in to see what’s happening (you know, WW can be quite tempting a choice – at least if the other one is working).

I can’t understand the Spm-bandwaggon. I hope it will dissolve as the night approaches. Nilp’s and Durelin’s votes were just taken out of a hat and Caran has kind of backed down with hers.

I wouldn’t either vote today for Spawn, Celuien or Cailín as they have all been reasonable and will be good assets to us if innocent. So I wouldn’t like to see them go because of some Day1 guessing. And anyway, they speak sense and very much sit right with me now. (Couldn’t resist using Morm’s slogan turned around)

About the people I wouldn’t like to see lynched today, but of whom I’m a bit worried, I could enlist Lmp, Morm and Boromir. Two first because of the non-posting and Boro because of his odd behavior (I’ve only played with him once, but there is something wrong there – might be just playfulness and carelesness, but how do you know?). I hope both Lmp and Morm turn out and wash away my bad feeling about them so far. I’ll have to think about Boro later as I have gotten my exams out of my hands.

Durelin and Nilp seem strange.
- I do not know Durelin from my previous games, but the vote-post was just baffling. It could be counted in the “nonsense-vote” –category, to which I think the same applies as to the random votes: safe afterwards, no tracks left behind. The one a wolf would love to make (at least one of them).
- Nilp didn’t vote for himself, but got all that chess-allegory –stuff to muddy the vote and the “lynch the major players” –thing, which I oppose. Those who really invest in the game and bring forward some effort should not be lynched on Day1 guessing bases. With some real suspicions, yes of course, and surely later when we start to gather evidence we should lynch any "committed wolves" immediately.

I’ll try to see to the rest of the group later – and possibly edit these as things unfold.

EDIT: X-posted with Mith, Morm & Caran.
So Morm is back, I still would like to see some sense from him, because I know he can do it. (And I understand there is lots to read) And Caran is not backing down her vote on Spm.

[Caranlondien]

Caran makes an early vote for a random reason - can all these early votes be earnest villages acting as "beaters" to see what will fly towards the guns? I don't really know Caran so don't know whether this is normal style or maybe the "fly-by-night" wolf ... I will hope to have a bit more to work on before decisions must be made but certainly more suspicious than most.
To be fair, I've never played with retractable votes before (to be honest, I've never even read through a game with retractable votes) so I don't really have a feel for how one typically uses them. And I'm a flip-floppy person by nature. Giving me the option to change my vote is bad! I'm already second-guessing my decision to stick with my vote for SpM... To echo one of my ancient ancestors, "What a nerve-wracking business this is!"

[Thinlómien]

A maternal authority is forcing me to leave.

++Boromir

He's the person I'm most suspicious of (which doesn't mean much). My reasoning is on post #71.

I will have my eye on Saucie as well.

Good RL night! (Or day, or whatever you have in your freaky timezones...)

[the guy who be short]

Morm? I can be a Kath replacement? So I get to be Ranger? Cool.

Your Mankey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mankey) is no match for my Squirtle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squirtle), so I'm not too worried. Care to explain the reasoning behind your vote anyway?

[Mithalwen]

I have to say a first day vote for SpM is odd.

He rings true to me at the moment (of course he could be playing a blinder) and I don't expect anyone else to trust my instinct since even I don't always find them reliable. However even if he had not posted a word the simple fact is, if he is innocent he is a likely early target for the wolves - and he knows it... similarly he is a likely early pick for the seer. He is unlikely to remain an unknown quantity for long. Unless Kath is following in D18's footsteps and not telling eek - I can't see anything in the destructions.

While ending his dissolute lifestyle and redistributing his wealth might find favour in some quarters, he is extremely clever - If he is innocent we may as well make the most of his brain. If he is guilty - well he is a "talker" ..the more people talk the more they may give away.

All this seems so obvious that I have to suspect those who have voting for SpM.


Of course if he does turn out to be a wolf .. well that is my neck well and truly stuck out... :rolleyes:

[Boromir88]

To Tom, Spawn, and those others who have commented on my not revealing how retractable vote helps me. Review the post as I explained it. I don't want wolves knowing my mind, then they would be able to use that against you. Because to know what your enemy is thinking or planning will only lead to your own downfall.

Also Tom, I really wasn't stressing my innocence. If I was stressing it I would have said "Since I'm INNOCENT!" that's stressing to me. :D

With all my retracting, I'm most likely going to stick with Thinlomien (unless we have a big drastic change) and here's why...

Thinlomien seems to be doing a lot of fence-riding and not taking a position on a lot of issues. It makes it seem as if she is trying appease everyone.

1)
I didn't say retractables are not a benefit to the village, because they are, in some situations. I just don't like people toying with them.~Post 41
Now of course you didn't say they were not a benefit. But you did say they cause confusion and that wolves would benefit giving them "perfect cover." I don't know how it gives them cover? Sure as heck hasn't given me cover today.
The last time I complained about frolicing with retractables Form changed his vote to me, just like Boromir here, and if I recall correctly, he was a wolf. Form, if you remeber I'd be gald to be sure. There's also the possibility that it was in Valier's game, and then Form wasn't a wolf... Anyway, I see no reason for an innocent to act like that.~Post 71
So, now you're trying to pin that since Form was a wolf with the last retractable vote, I have to be a wolf too? Sounds kind of specious and flimsy.

2) Sauce has remarked on Form and Lommy's "anti-day 1's" Now Form always hates Day 1's...I never understand why...they're the most interesting day for me. :p But Lommy follows suit and what's interesting is after saying:
Day One is pretty useless on Day One~Post 40
Then when Sauce comments on it Lommy responds:
So I'm not completely anti-Day1, you see. I just dislike them on Day1s.~Post 71
Not completely against Day 1? So this means you're what 60-40%? 78.2-21.8%?

Lommy seems like you've done a job to try to pin me that since I retract I have to be a wolf (remarking about prior games of course). And riding the fence, not taking a stance...playing it safe.

The Sauce Wagon's got me a bit puzzled too. Honestly I can't understand it. Especially Durelin's vote.
This has already been called a bandwagon (3 votes?). Let's see, when I voted for SpM, he'd gotten 2 votes, one of which had been retracted. So I bumped him back up to 2, then Durelin gave the third vote (with no explanation whatsoever ) So I don't really see it as a bandwagon. And anyway, all I can do is vote based on my honest suspicions.~Caranlondien
I'd call it a bandwagon, suddenly Sauce has 3 quick votes. And really very little reasoning. Now it is Day 1 and there's not a bunch to go on. But there's always something that catches my attention at least. And random voting (meaning just drawing a name from a hat) on Day 1 I can't see anything good that comes out of it. In fact I'm in the thinking that random voting is actually a wolvish move.

1st off- They know their partners, so they know who not to pick.

2ndly- It's no help to the village if someone just votes randomly. Because it gives an excuse of if you just happen to lynch an innocent its the..."Oh I'm sorry, I just pulled a name out of a hat. There was really nothing I was suspicious of, so I just voted for someone randomly."

I despise random votes as much as Form despises day 1's.

[Durelin]

If one would, for a moment, consider one of my many past lives (on my tenth, yessir...), my reasoning behind voting for the one and only SPM is actually completely understandable in its absurdity.

Durelin stops reading "Make-Out Paradise" for a moment, and looks up.

And I stand by one thought, and one thought alone. You exploit the ninja when you simply use it for lone shadowy entrances, lone kunai throwing, and lone mysterious note writing. A ninja must be part of a team.

And in discordance with my belief, this Man stands in the way of the teamwork mindset I'm looking for.

Plus...a threesome-vote is like teamwork...right?

Well, in a way.

I'd just like to point out, because we're doing a lot of pointing here (of course), that I'm certainly not the only one to vote without explanation. The Man in question being among those who have done so. And this whole retracting votes thing is getting on my nerves. Rules may be rules, but a man who does not stand by what he says is weak kneed, and prone to getting kicked onto his arse. Adding to the confusion is something that a Wolf would do (or the former Cobbler...). Unless adding to the confusion is a way of rattling the dogs' cages until they start barking. Very possible...

I fear I may be missing the mark completely.

Perhaps I will take back my vote and shroud it again in mist. But then I assume I would be accused of vote-retracting-bandwagon-ing. Bandwagon-ing and teamwork are very different, you know...just so you know...

I'm actually getting more suspicious of the Boro-man that keeps retracting his votes. He's decidedly disrupting the teamwork karma.

And random voting (meaning just drawing a name from a hat) on Day 1 I can't see anything good that comes out of it.

What would you suggest instead, worthy opponent? I ask you this especially due to your rather brash voting that one might classify as random, which has led you to retract your vote and revote on several occasions.

[Boromir88]

I'm actually getting more suspicious of the Boro-man that keeps retracting his votes. He's decidedly disrupting the teamwork karma.~Durelin
Why should I work along with a team that I disagree with? I don't know who's on my team and who isn't. If I disagree with the reasoning why should I pretend to like it? I'm presenting my own points, whether you agree with them or not is up to you. I encourage everyone to have a brain for themselves and not be mindless robots, that just go along with everything.
What would you suggest instead, worthy opponent? I ask you this especially due to your rather brash voting that one might classify as random, which has led you to retract your vote and revote on several occasions.~Durelin
I'd change that to "few" occasions, several implies 5-7, few is 2-3. My retracted votes could be called random, but they serve me a purpose. I retracted them because they were, exactly that, random. But my final vote is never random. When I was talking about random voting I was specifically referring to finalized, cemented in, done deal votes that people just chose randomly. Eventhough if I did not make that clear before.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Okay.

Interesting skirmish between Sauce and Lommy there. I'm not really suspicious of either of them although in my opinion Sauce has been more rash than usual. It looks like that the little debate with him and Lommy was mostly a misunderstanding, but I remember hearing about one of Sauce's ancestors who made a brilliant performance as a clueless villager. This could be a similar act, but not enough for getting a vote from me toDay. Sometimes it just pays off to vote for some "big-name" villager even on Day 1, but I wouldn't certainly do it without as good reasons as possible. If we want to find the wolves, we need to vote for the villager we find the most suspicious regardless of their status, but voting them more or less randomly doesn't help at all.

TGWBS is confusing me with all those Pidgeys and stuff. I've never been a fan of Pokemon, maybe that's my problem, but to me it looks like that he's made his presence clear only with talking about those creatures. When I read his posts they have little substance in them. I believe we have another Day 1 hater here...

His random abacus told him to vote for Cailín and he is confident about his choice. He says that Sauce is being inconsistent, but wonders if he should have used smilies. His comments about other affairs of the village (votes & roles) are "don't care" and "apathetic" with a few lines of speculation.
When morm voted for him, he wanted to know morm's reason. Would it have helped if he had said that he has an abacus, too..?

Oh, and Boro, me writing about your decision not to reveal your tactic was a part of a small summary of your doings. I haven't said my own opinion about that yet. That aside, I'm not comfortable with you somewhat twisting Lommy's words. When you quoted Lommy's post #40, you conviniently left out the last part of the phrase which would have made more sense. I don't know whether Lommy is innocent or not, but in any case quoting someone in a way that on purpose makes them look worse than they are isn't fair.

On a lighter note, "But you [Lommy] did say they [retractable votes] cause confusion and that wolves would benefit giving them "perfect cover." I don't know how it gives them cover? Sure as heck hasn't given me cover today." ~Boro

Ooh, are you confessing? :D (Or am I too tired... :confused: )

[Mithalwen]

Semi random vote to follow...

Fea ... what more can I say? Uneasy, but is that prejudice?

LMP ..so quiet ..is that really just timezones..

Caranlondien ...not yet really reassured...

Boromir...not really reassuring either.....

Have to go.... completely unsure but have to vote .....so go with

++Feanor of the Peredhil

[Caranlondien]

Well, for standing by my vote for the person I find most suspicious, apparently I myself am suspicious. And I expect that now if I change my vote, it'll be seen as suspicious. It's been pointed out in a certain previous game (in which I was innocent) that I'm a crowd-pleaser. I tend to be swayed easily by people's arguments. Besides which, I'm trying to do all this reasoning on my laptop using the hotel's weak little wireless signal which keeps cutting out...

Anyway, since I'm back in the hotel earlier than I expected, I have some more time to review. And, yes, I'll go to the main thread and confirm all this hotel/faulty wireless system stuff.

I really don't get all the fuss about this. It's 3 votes... Most games I've played in have had massive bandwagons on Day 1, with mainly innocents doing the bandwagon-ing. If you don't like my vote, argue against it, by all means. But I don't think a Day 1 bandwagon is as suspicious as many villagers seem to be making out. I'm not saying it's a good thing for the village, and since I've been iffy about my vote for SpM to begin with, I'll probably change it. But sometimes a couple of innocent people just happen to suspect the same person.

[Durelin]

Why should I work along with a team that I disagree with?

Because if no one did, we would all be alone. ;)


I retracted them because they were, exactly that, random. But my final vote is never random. When I was talking about random voting I was specifically referring to finalized, cemented in, done deal votes that people just chose randomly.

I suppose my vote isn't necessarily final then, is it?

Random? Yes.

Final? Not so yes.

:p

[Cailín]

What I despise about Day 1s is that I always wish to trust everyone. It's very difficult to determine guilt toDay and there hasn't really been anyone enormously suspicious or controversial.

Caranlondien - there was something different about her, then it disappeared and now she's being defensive. I'm not quite sure what to make of her.

Mithalwen - well, her vote for Fea is understandable from a certain perspective, but I don't think it's entirely fair.

Formendacil - I know it is characteristic of him to act like this on Day 1, but I think he has been more silent and sullen than usual, even.

Nilpaurion Felagund - I mistrust him a little, which has little to do with reasoning (or chess or Pokemon).

LMP & Mormegil have not yet contributed as much as I would expect, but I'm willing to 'let that slide'. That means I'll shall be waiting to hear some extensive theories on why Sauce (or insert another random name) is guilty tomorrow. ;)

Lommy has already managed to gather some suspicion. I don't really see anything horribly different about her.

Nogrod is usually quite transparent and seems as innocent as they come.

Spawn and Fin are reasonable, so is Celuien. We need some of those people around. If they are wolvish, that would be err.. troublesome.

Sauce has resumed his clueless villager act. And has also said some pretty worthwhile things. I won't like to see him die just yet.

TGWBS has not been extremely helpful (and he voted for me, effectively breaking my record of not being voted for for three games in a row - which is extremely nasty ;) ) but that's usually how he acts on Day 1 especially when he has a limited amount of time. Fea somehow fits into the same category.

Boromir seems innocent and his retractable voting thing nothing more than a way to get some serious responses. Which is good, we need the discussion.

Durelin has been rather random and quirky, but that just seems to be her style.

Tom is new to the game. I would not see him go on Day 1.

I voted initially for Lhuna, because that's what the script told me to do, but we need a mind of our own, don't we? She's not on my suspect list (which is actually a rather 'big' word for my hunches).

I will vote within 15 minutes for one of the first four people on this list, I'm afraid. Unless someone jumps up and starts confessing.

[Caranlondien]

::Sigh::

Hmm... Okay, I'm suspicious of everyone. I admit that lynching SpM would be hasty, as an innocent Sauce is an asset to the village. Really, I let my vote stand because no one else seemed to want to lynch him, so I thought he'd probably be safe, and I'm just really pressed for time toDay. Earlier I voiced suspicions of villagers like morm and spawn, who are good at flying under the radar, but I don't have enough of a bad feeling there to vote for any of them, as they fall under the same category as SpM: helpful if innocent.

I don't remember if anyone else has voted this way yet (which makes it all the better, because then I know I'm voting for my own reasons...):

--The Saucepan Man
++Durelin

for random postings without much of substance.

This time I really won't be able to come back before the deadline. I'm sorry I haven't been able to put much thought into this toDay, but things will be back to normal for me by toMorrow.

[Cailín]

All right, my decision has been made.

I don't want to vote for Nilp, as the case I have him has absolutely no substance. I also don't want to vote for Mithalwen, who seems genuine aside from her possibly strange vote. I want to give Caranlondien another chance and she will not be online anymore.

So...

--Lhunardawen

++Formendacil

And that is mainly because there are few enough people who are giving me evil vibes right now (which means Caran and I are opposites in this). I know I said that this is how he usually acts on Day 1, but he has this time offered nothing of substance whatsoever and I had hoped he'd make an effort later on.

I hope we all choose wisely. Good night!

[Formendacil]

What I despise about Day 1s is that I always wish to trust everyone. It's very difficult to determine guilt toDay and there hasn't really been anyone enormously suspicious or controversial.

Precisely why I hate Day 1s. People like to think, at the time, that they are being useful, helpful, and thoughtful, but the only thing making noise on Day 1 does is incriminate you on later Days. The only time I was noisy on Day 1, I was lynched Day 3 as a Werewolf (Phantom's Game, XII). And, really, Day 1 is simply a matter of random guessing for the innocents. Only the Werewolves know who the Werewolves are- so only the Werewolves would want to influence the vote in any particular way- unless they're stupid enough to go and incriminate themselves.

So really, the reason I hate Day 1s is that people think we should be serious and noisy on them. That's a tactic that I've yet to see work to any player's enduring advantage in a game.

Work being what it is, I'll likely not be on ere Day end to vote again, so let:

++ Caranlondien stand as my vote. Not for any real reasons of suspicion, save that she is very careful and track-covering. And, this being Day 1, and no one being stupid enough to incriminate themselves, that's as good a reason as any.

[Celuien]

Actually, I have noticed a lot about me that looks (or has been made to look) suspicious. But it's most certainly not how a Wolvish Sauce would act on Day 1.
And in that it's not how a wolvish Sauce would act, being that one of my ancestors once encountered a saucepan-wearing Werewolf ;), I don't find you suspicious today.

LMP ..so quiet ..is that really just timezones..
Elempi and I are in the same time zone, but I think he's busy in RL right now (see notices on the Rohan theater bulletin board). So I think it's most likely time zones + RL that lead to his being quieter than usual just now. Still, the change may bear watching.

I don't really want Nilpy to die today. I'd hoped for a reply to my vote, but time zone disease seems to be in the way.

-- NILP
++ DURELIN

Caran and Nogrod have pointed out the same things that I find disturbing. And she feels a bit aggressive in her posts to Boromir and regarding SPM.

Do I have 14 minutes left or an hour and 14 minutes? I'm confused over the time zones.

EDIT: Crossed with Cailin and Formendacil.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Uh, I intended to post a vote tally, but I messed up with something and I don't have time to check where the error is anymore. My vote goes to

++Boromir

who has toDay looked the fairest but felt the foulest. Good Night!

[Durelin]

Ah, so the supposed band-wagon-ing gang has begun to turn on me! Alas.

Everyone dislikes Day 1. And the posting patterns on day one are sporadic, with people trying their hand at reasoning, others simply having fun with their roles in the village. And anyone who says anything at all runs the risk of drawing attention to themselves perhaps more than they do on the following days, and by what others have said about Day 1, they seem to agree with this matter (perhaps; this may be an error of judgment on my part).

So, I only have one piece of reasoning for Day 1: a wolf might not want to draw attention to him/herself on the first. And so, I point at the person who, in my opinion, has attracted the least attention to himself: tom bombariffic.

His post is straight to the point. Just as a wolf would not want to draw attention to himself, he does not waste any time with his role. His reasoning is interesting, and he has interesting, but then...a wolf wouldn't risk a 'random' vote, even though he himself said that "there is no real evidence against Boromir." He craftily makes it appear as if he has evidence, but then renounces that he has any at all. Covering all his bases... This is either just smart, or downright conniving.

Crazy reverse psychology, or brilliant tactics? The world may never know. The ninja never tells...

And so, as fashionably as I arrived late, I will now revote in what is seemingly as fashionable a way:

--The Saucepan Man
++tom bombariffic

His lack of posting is lowering team morale.

EDIT: Cross-posted with the last four people... *sighs* Way off target...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

++SPAM

Because I currently have nobody better to vote for.

[Findëasëa]

To Tom, Spawn, and those others who have commented on my not revealing how retractable vote helps me. Review the post as I explained it. I don't want wolves knowing my mind, then they would be able to use that against you. Because to know what your enemy is thinking or planning will only lead to your own downfall.

The problem with this reasoning is that it isn’t ‘Boromir versus the wolves’, it’s the village as a whole against the wolves. If Boromir is an innocent, then hiding behind this reasoning and not justifying his votes is going to get him lynched, and that is not going to help the village. His perspective struck me as a strange one, as it seems to work against the well being of the village. The issue is not one of trust, The best way for everyone to work towards the safety of the village seems to me to be coming up with viable ideas as to who might be guilty and why. Althrough I am not completely convinced of his guilt, I am going to vote:

++Boromir

[Boromir88]

Ooh, are you confessing? (Or am I too tired... )~spawn
Eventhough you were seemingly joking...if I was a wolf I wouldn't play like Fea. :p

I'm not comfortable with you somewhat twisting Lommy's words. When you quoted Lommy's post #40, you conviniently left out the last part of the phrase which would have made more sense. I don't know whether Lommy is innocent or not, but in any case quoting someone in a way that on purpose makes them look worse than they are isn't fair.~ibid
I didn't take anything out of context Miss Spawn. You just simply don't understand. The rest of the quote you are referring to there is no need to quote, therefor I didn't. This is Day 1 is it not? I was making the point that Lommy, on Day 1 find's Day 1's useless (which I disagree). The rest of the quote does not matter in this case, because we aren't in "future days yet," we still are in Day 1's on Day 1. Whether Lommy finds use of Day 1's in the upcoming days is irrelevant to the point that right now on Day 1, she finds it useless.

The only time I was noisy on Day 1, I was lynched Day 3 as a Werewolf (Phantom's Game, XII).~Formendacil
I remember that game...that was the game I voted for you for 3 straight days and finally the village went along...then I was lynched, because I must have been a wolf partner :rolleyes: ...oh fun times.

Just some thoughts on some people.

Formendacil to me is acting like usual. Which could be bad of course, but usually he is less active on Day 1, and see no particular reason why I should vote for him.

Sauce also seems normal, which again could be bad, but he'll be found out soon enough, if not already.

I definitely expected more from lmp and morm, perhaps they are just unable to be around a lot today, I know how that is. But I've heard basically nothing from them.

Mithalwen is making me nervous with her pointing attention to me:
Boromir88 - I wonder about his reference then vote for Spawn. Hmmm I suspect he is not ordinary put it that way.... I expect he will post more before I have ot decide. I would hesitate to lynch him without good evidence because if he is innocent we don't want to lose him....
I wonder if this is a ploy to pin me down. Because I would expect any innocent who thinks they know a gifted to bequiet and not spill the beans and let everyone know "Hey I don't think you're ordinary."

Fin and Nogrod seem helpful, logical, and contributed quite a bit, I'm inclined to think they're innocent.

As far as everyone else, I still am trying to get a grasp on. I'll stick with Lommy however as my vote. Good bye and good luck.

[Kath]

Stop voting now please, Day 1 has ended.

Boromir's death will be up shortly.

[Nogrod]

Am I the only one who thought it was 11PM GMT? Now the game has closed 10PM GMT! I might be wrong about the 11pm, but well, ... :o

[Nogrod]

http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/

[Nogrod]

Let's just make sure we end and start the day at the same time tomorrow... so either 10PM GMT or 11PM GMT. Both are fine (10PM even better for me - if I'd only knew it beforehand...).

[Kath]

Unaware that his death was now inevitable Boromir continued to talk, trying to explain, to get people to listen, but to no avail. The villagers converged upon him, raiding his clothes for hidden weapons, not wishing to be caught off-guard if he turned out to be a wolf.
“What shall we do with him?” Asked spawn, who found a knife inside Boromir’s boot. “Use this?”

“No, that’s too simple.” Replied Sauce. “We need something that will really show these fiends who’s in charge round here.”

“Well, how about using the wolves own tricks against them, and kill him with his favourite animal?” Mused Lommy.

The idea was taken up with glee, and after much persuasion of a violent nature, an answer was finally pulled out of the doomed assassin.

“A lion! My favourite animal is a lion.”

“To the lion pit!” Cried the villagers, some with bemused voices, sure they had not had a lion pit the day before. Still, it was a fitting death, so they shrugged and joined the crowd.

Boromir was lifted high into the air on the villagers shoulders, in a bizarre parody of a victory parade, and carried towards the outskirts of the village. As they neared the boundary markings, roars could be heard, and a few more steps took them to the edge of a deep pit, in which three lions were prowling.

The villagers put Boromir down and pushed him right up to the rim of the pit. Terrified he turned round and pointed at Lommy.

“She’s the one you want, not me!”

The villagers just shook their heads.

“Oh yes, her and the other hundred villagers you voted for today.”

“Please, I’m INNOCENT I tell you! Inno . . .”

But it was too late. With one final push he fell, and the lions closed in around him. The villages watched in anticipation as the claws ripped through him, shredding both cloth and flesh, waiting for the moment when he would transform into the beast he truly was. It never came. The lions tore at Boromir, their roars masking his screams, but he remained human throughout.

Looking down into the pit the villagers saw his mangled, innocent body, and knew that three among them were quietly gloating. Walking a little way apart from each other, they made their way back into town, dreading what they knew was to come that Night.



Night 1 ~ Kath, killed by a turtle in an aerial attack ~ Innocent.
Day 1 ~ Boromir, lynched by the villagers by means of lions ~ Innocent.




Night 2 has now begun.
Wolves, Seer, Hunter, Ranger and Changeling - please PM me your choices.

Oh and Nogrod, if you make one more after the deadline post your death will swiftly follow, savvy? :)

[Kath]

Formendacil had found a place to spend the Night a little way off from the village. He had abandoned his usual habit of sleeping on one of the villagers doorsteps, having had a trying Day and wishing not to be disturbed or, indeed, killed by a werewolf tripping over him as they left the house to go kill someone. He had assumed that his new bedroom, a small hollow in a tree just on the edge of the village, would keep him safe, reasoning being that if he was well hidden, the wolves might not bother taking the time to find him.

From his vantage point, he saw the three wolves leave their houses. For a moment he considered running back to the village, to tell everyone who the traitors amongst them were, but before he could gather the courage to leave his hiding place he heard a howl behind him.

Whirling round he began to back further into the hollow, expecting to see a wolf. He was unsure whether to be pleased or afraid when the sight that met his eyes was not that of a wolf, but of a coyote. Cocking it’s head the animal regarded him with cold eyes, and then turned it’s head up to the skies and began to howl again. Formendacil reached a hand forward.

“Shh.” He muttered, casting a wary glance back toward the village. He couldn’t see the wolves anymore, and it was worrying him not to know where they were.

The coyote continued to howl, disregarding Formendacil’s plea. Hearing answering howls from within the village he repeated his request, more desperate now than before. Receiving no indication that the animal had even noticed him speak, he crept a little further out of the hollow, hoping he could reach it and find some way to shut it up before the wolves became curious about the reasons for the noise and arrived to find an answer.

As he moved, the coyote stopped howling, and fixed wide eyes on him. Stopping, Formendacil smiled in relief, and turned to sneak back into his makeshift bedroom, but again his movement was stopped, for standing behind him were the wolves. Screaming out in terror, he tried to back away, but in his haste he forgot the coyote. His legs caught on the animal and he fell onto his back, crying out in fear as the powerful jaws of the wolves appeared before him.

The ripping sound of his own flesh being torn from his bones accompanied by screams of pain were the last thing Formendacil heard before death claimed him, but the mauling of his body continued long afterwards. The wolves dragged his body into the town square and proceeded to tear strips of flesh from his body, and place them on the embers of the dying fire left to burn throughout the Night.

When the villagers awoke at dawn, they smelt the cooked meat, and left their houses to find out what it was. Reaching the firepit, they saw what remained of Formendacil’s body lying on the ground, and many turned round to be sick. The wolves had claimed another innocent life.


Dead:
Night 1 ~ Kath, killed by a turtle in an aerial attack ~ Innocent.
Day 1 ~ Boromir, lynched by the villagers by means of lions ~ Innocent.
Night 2 ~ Formendacil, killed by a coyote and it's trickery ~ Innocent.

Alive:
Lhuna - traveller with absolutely no sense of direction
Cailín - tragedienne
Nilp - ex-world champion in chess
Fea - confectionist
Celuien - ketchup grower
TGWBS - Pokémaster
Lommy - AA-adviser
Nogrod - owner of ME's first hamburger restaurant
lmp - gravedigger
Tom - tree surgeon
Caran - town poet
Findëasëa (from now called Fin) - alpaca herder
spawn - lumberjackess
Mith - aura consultant
morm - butcher
Durelin - ninja
Sauce - retired Arda-famous chariot racer and playboy millionaire


Day 2 has now begun. Wolves stop PMing villagers start talking.

[the guy who be short]

Formy's dead? I suppose it's his own fault for not wearing shorts.

Anyway, before I go off and spout various theories that will only partially make sense due to my current state of sleepiness, I would like to mention that late yesterDay I started making a list of my thoughts on people. So far, only three of you have been noticable.

Here they are:

Durelin - Anti-retractable votes. Pro-random. Good.
Caranlondien - Easily swayed by others. Bad.
Findeasea - Good reasons against Boro. Post 108.

Such is the extent of my analysis.

[The Saucepan Man]

Gah! How on earth did we end up lynching Boro? He was one of the last villagers that I would have voted for yesterday! All that nonsense about him looking suspicious for switching his votes. It was clear that he was attemting to use the retractable voting tactically to flush out a Wolf or two. Obviously, he did not want to explain his plans precisely, since that would only have alerted the Wolves to what he was trying to achieve. :rolleyes:

Still, if it had not been him, it would most likely have been Form or me. Form has been proven innocent. And I am innocent too, although obviously I don't expect anyone to take my word for that.

Anyway, here's the Day 1 voting:

Boro => spawn (spawn-1)
SpM => Fea (spawn-1, Fea-1)
Boro ≠> spawn => SpM (Fea-1, SpM-1)
Caran => Celuien (Fea-1, SpM-1, Celuien-1)
Nilp => SpM (Fea-1, SpM-2, Celuien-1)
Cailín => Lhuna (Fea-1, SpM-2, Celuien-1, Lhuna-1)
Elempi => Form (Fea-1, SpM-2, Celuien-1, Lhuna-1, Form-1)
Lhuna => TGWBS (Fea-1, SpM-2, Celuien-1, Lhuna-1, Form-1, TGWBS-1)
Boro ≠> SpM => Lommy (Fea-1, SpM-1, Celuien-1, Lhuna-1, Form-1, TGWBS-1, Lommy-1)
Celuien => Nilp (Fea-1, SpM-1, Celuien-1, Lhuna-1, Form-1, TGWBS-1, Lommy-1, Nilp-1)
Tom => Boro (Fea-1, SpM-1, Celuien-1, Lhuna-1, Form-1, TGWBS-1, Lommy-1, Nilp-1, Boro-1)
SpM ≠> Fea => Form (SpM-1, Celuien-1, Lhuna-1, Form-2, TGWBS-1, Lommy-1, Nilp-1, Boro-1)
Caran ≠> Celuien => SpM (SpM-2, Lhuna-1, Form-2, TGWBS-1, Lommy-1, Nilp-1, Boro-1)
Durelin => SpM (SpM-3, Lhuna-1, Form-2, TGWBS-1, Lommy-1, Nilp-1, Boro-1)
TGWBS => Cailín (SpM-3, Lhuna-1, Form-2, TGWBS-1, Lommy-1, Nilp-1, Boro-1, Cailín-1)
Morm => TGWBS (SpM-3, Lhuna-1, Form-2, TGWBS-2, Lommy-1, Nilp-1, Boro-1, Cailín-1)
Lommy => Boro (SpM-3, Lhuna-1, Form-2, TGWBS-2, Lommy-1, Nilp-1, Boro-2, Cailín-1)
Mith => Fea (SpM-3, Lhuna-1, Form-2, TGWBS-2, Lommy-1, Nilp-1, Boro-2, Cailín-1, Fea-1)
Caran ≠> SpM=> Durelin (SpM-2, Lhuna-1, Form-2, TGWBS-2, Lommy-1, Nilp-1, Boro-2, Cailín-1, Fea-1, Durelin-1)
Cailín ≠> Lhuna => Form (SpM-2, Form-3, TGWBS-2, Lommy-1, Nilp-1, Boro-2, Cailín-1, Fea-1, Durelin-1)
Form => Caran (SpM-2, Form-3, TGWBS-2, Lommy-1, Nilp-1, Boro-2, Cailín-1, Fea-1, Durelin-1, Caran-1)
Celuien ≠> Nilp => Durelin (SpM-2, Form-3, TGWBS-2, Lommy-1, Boro-2, Cailín-1, Fea-1, Durelin-2, Caran-1)
Spawn => Boro (SpM-2, Form-3, TGWBS-2, Lommy-1, Boro-3, Cailín-1, Fea-1, Durelin-2, Caran-1)
Durelin ≠> SpM=> Tom (SpM-1, Form-3, TGWBS-2, Lommy-1, Boro-3, Cailín-1, Fea-1, Durelin-2, Caran-1, Tom-1)
Fea => SpM (SpM-2, Form-3, TGWBS-2, Lommy-1, Boro-3, Cailín-1, Fea-1, Durelin-2, Caran-1, Tom-1)
Fin => Boro (SpM-2, Form-3, TGWBS-2, Lommy-1, Boro-4, Cailín-1, Fea-1, Durelin-2, Caran-1, Tom-1)

Did not vote: Nogrod

Interesting that the Wolves chose Formy, who attracted a lot of votes yesterday. That said, and despite my suspicion of him yesterday, I concluded when I reviewed the Day's events that he was most probably innocent. When he voted yesterday, he led the lynch chart with three votes. He could have voted for TGWBS, Boro or me to save himself. Yet he voted for Caran, who had attracted no votes at that stage. A most unlikely vote for a Wolf.

That may be why the Wolves killed him, anticipating that the suspicion that he had attracted yesterday would die down today. Possibly, they thought he might be the Seer or another Gifted, although I cannot see much that would lead them to that conclusion. And possibly, it was a clumsy attempt to frame Elempi, Cailín or me - most likely me, given the suspicion that I was under yesterday.

Most likely a combination of all of those things.

I'm going to take a close look at the Boro voters, and follow up a few other ideas. Back soon with some further thoughts.

[the guy who be short]

Formendacil posted thrice yesterday.

Post 7 - Says nothing of importance.

Post 29 - Repeat performance, haha.

Post 103 - Form votes Caranlondien for being careful in covering her tracks.

Firstly, I would like to apologise for the haphazard chronology of the following. I first searched for all posts containing the word Formendacil, forgetting that some would refer to him as Form. I then had to go through again searching for Form. And it's far too late for me to edit for something so minor as that.

LMP votes Form. He says Form is always a wolf when he plays, thats the way it is.
Sauce then votes for Form, changing from Fea, for saying little of importance.

Spawn says Form seems more frustrated about Day 1s than usual.
Cailin says Form may be a wolf, but she doesn't know or see anything odd about him. Mith says she may vote for him if he keeps whinging. Cailin then says she thinks Form is being odd by being more silent and sullen than usual. Cailin changes her vote to Form from Lhuna.

SpM rants about how Form is wrong in thinking Day 1s are useless. Naturally.

****

Now that you have all the bare information, here are my thoughts.

Formendacil may have been killed for giving us no information whatsoever. I think this is most likely. We are confusing ourselves to death - quite literally - and the removal of a quiet villager allows us to continue in this vein.

However, he could also have been killed for a multitude of other reasons. Perhaps to incriminate an innocent, Caranlondien. Perhaps they thought he was the Seer and Caranlondien is a wolf. This is less likely as he did not mention her until his last post.

He could also have been killed to cast suspicion on those who voted for him - Sauce and LMP and Cailin - or, using reverse psychology, as a bluff to make them less suspicious. However, the latter is unlikely as they were not under much suspicion in the first place, excluding SpM. For him, this theory is credible.

In conclusion, I think he was likely killed because we were all barking up the wrong tree, and the wolves want to keep it that way. So we need some new people to accuse.

****

One thing I noticed was very interesting. Cailin says that she thought Form was acting normally. Later spawn, in a very long post, casually remarked that she thought Form was being more defensive than usual. Later still, Cailin echoes this and switches her vote to Form. I find this very suspicious and wouldn't put it past both of them being wolves. I would like to hear why Cailin suddenly changed her mind. Spawn, meanwhile, appears to be very influential in her summary posts.

Thoughts on Boromir after I come back in about 12 hours, hopefully. In short, I thought he was a loud, mistaken innocent. Bed now.

[Celuien]

I have to agree with the assessments of Formy's death. The first thought I had was that this was an attempt to frame Elempi. He would be an easy target for framing as he was less present than expected yesterday and Formy's death could have been used as a tenuous link back to him.

I'll return shortly with a look at Durelin. I want to see if I still find her suspicious after a good rest.

[The Saucepan Man]

Tom, Lommy, spawn and Fin voted for Boro yesterday.

Tom seemed genuine in his vote, even if I think his reasoning misguided.

Lommy was fairly aggressive with Boro and looks to have been the one most keen to push this idea that he was suspicious because he kept switching his votes (although he only switched twice in the end). In any event, she and Boro clearly clashed over the retractable votes issue.

Spawn effectively sealed Boro’s fate, although it would not have been clear to her at the time she voted. She voted for him because he “looked fairest and felt foulest”, whatever that means, although she had earlier accused him of twisting Lommy’s words.

And Fin put in the final vote to bring him to four votes. I seriously doubt that a Wolf, knowing him to be innocent, would have voted for him at that point.

If there was a Wolf amongst the Boro voters (and there was surely only one at most), I would look to Lommy. She came across to me yesterday as directing the most of her energies towards heightening the growing suspicions of Boro and me. Although I am surprised that spawn was caught up in the shoddy reasoning that led to him being lynched.

Spawn, meanwhile, appears to be very influential in her summary posts.She always is. That's why when she is good, she's very very good, and when she is bad, she is horrid. ;)

But I wonder if there was a Wolf among the Boro voters at all. From my perspective, the three most likely lynch candidates of the day (Boro, Form and myself) were all innocents. There was simply no need for the Wolves to vote for someone who was likely to be lynched and proven innocent. As far as the Wolves were concerned, it was a good day for a “throwaway” vote, or even the odd Wolf-on-Wolf vote.

My chief suspect at the moment is Caran. She was fairly active yesterday, despite problems reaching the village square, yet I cannot recall her saying much of substance. She seems to have spent most of the latter part of the day worrying about whether she should maintain her vote for me or not and came across to me as someone who was concenred about where best to place her vote.

But would the Wolves kill someone who voted for one of their number? Quite possibly, I think. The old double-bluff.

As matters stand, my thoughts are along the following lines:

Probably innocent: Nogrod

Inclined to trust for now: Cailín, Lhuna, Celuien, Durelin, Mith, Fin

Wary of: Nilp, TGWBS, spawn, Fea, Lommy

Looking decidedly suspicious: Caran

Just don’t know: Elempi, morm, Tom

Btw, in light of recent events, I am happy to acknowledge that my "Animalia" theory was a load of old tripe. :rolleyes: :D

[The Saucepan Man]

I'll return shortly with a look at Durelin.If Durelin's a Wolf, she's a reckless one. She drew far too much (unwarranted) attention to herself yesterday with her unreasoned vote for me, her subsequent (frankly confusing) attempts to justify it, and then switching vote to Tom (with little more in the way of reasoning) after criticising Boro for much the same behaviour. It's possible, but I don't see it at the moment. There was no need for the Wolves to take any risks yesterday.

[the guy who be short]

But I wonder if there was a Wolf among the Boro voters at all. From my perspective, the three most likely lynch candidates of the day (Boro, Form and myself) were all innocents. There was simply no need for the Wolves to vote for someone who was likely to be lynched and proven innocent. As far as the Wolves were concerned, it was a good day for a “throwaway” vote, or even the odd Wolf-on-Wolf vote.Largely agreed. This supports my theory that Form was killed so as to continue the process smoothly by not causing any major disruptions.


Seriously... bed now.

[Celuien]

Subjectively, I was disturbed by her yesterday.

Objectively: Here's what she had to day...

54: Vote for SPM in the midst of ninja moves.
94: Says that Panman is interfering with teamwork and says that bandwagoning is not the same thing as team work. Dislikes retracting votes – thinks it causes confusion. Says she might retract her vote for SPM, but would then be accused of vote-retracting-bandwagoning. Suspects Boro for disrupting team work by retracting votes and suggests he may be voting randomly even though he said nothing good comes from day 1 random voting.
99: Tells Boro that non-team players play alone. Says her vote isn’t final.
106: Says the bandwagon is turning on her and that everyone hates day one. Says wolves don’t want to draw attention to themselves, so Tom Bombariffic may be a wolf. Switches vote from SPM to Tom.

Assessment: Appears to flip flop regarding retracting votes - starting against them because they cause confusion and then switching herself. Strong emphasis on teamplaying, which is both good and bad. Good in that the village does need to work together to catch the wolves. Bad in that it seems to cast suspicion on those who want to debate, which the village also has to do to catch wolves. Also bad because a wolf trying to sway the village wouldn't want disagreement either. But very, very attention getting moves for a wolf on day one. And so, very risky. Most likely something a wolf would not want to do unless a bold bluffer, which Durelin could be. She feels more innocent in her last post, but still has some odd things about her.

Plan: I still want to keep an eye on Durelin.

[tom bombariffic]

I'll also have to agree that the wolves most likely killed form to keep up the village's confusion , but I couldn't call it a definite 'throwaway'.

In post 103, Formendacil claims that talking a lot on day 1 has little value, and so was not playing a very active role. But Form is a strong player, as lore books will reveal, and one who was likely to take up a bigger role later on (I'd classify morm in this category as well). This killing may not be random, but rather a signal that the wolves are comfortable with their positions in the village hierachy, and their ability to lead a vote, and didn't want form's likely increased participation changing that. It's a possibility. Tomorrow morning I'm going to go over the first day's more prominent posters carefully. Right now it's far too inhumane an hour.

Obviously Caranlondien needs looking at, but I'd be susprised if the wolves did anything so obvious as killing someone who had voiced a suspicion about them; not with an entire village to choose from. So I'm comfortable with her for the time being.

I'll be back in the morning when I can focus on the page.

bombariffic

[Caranlondien]

She seems to have spent most of the latter part of the day worrying about whether she should maintain her vote for me or not
Well, most of that was because I hadn't planned on returning to the village; However, finding myself in the presence of a functioning computer for a short time, I took the opportunity to reconsider my vote. And I explained all that yesterDay.

Now, Form's death doesn't surprise me. I agree with TGWBS's conjecture that the wolves want to maintain the utter confusion we found ourselves in yesterDay. From Form's death, it looks like the wolves are trying to take advantage of my self-admittedly odd-looking behavior yesterDay to get me lynched.

I hate to point fingers at those accusing me, but SpM fits the bill. YesterDay he seemed careful; he only went so far as to call my behavior "interesting" and the like. Meanwhile, a lot of other villagers, probably innocent, began to more vocally accuse me, showing the wolves that I'm a safe target for them. ToDay I'm on SpM's Decidedly Wolvish list.

I'm probably just adding to the suspicion around me by continuing to voice my own suspicions of SpM. But I don't care if I die if it helps the village. With the amount of suspicion surrounding me, at some point my death probably will help the village by eliminating suspects. In any case, this SpM theory is the only thing I've got at the moment... I'll go back over yesterDay's posts to see if I've got any other ideas clinking around in my head...

[Durelin]

*emerges from the mists*

Just checking in.

I hated retracting my vote, believe me. I don't like flip-flopping. But just as a number of people did, I popped in with a vote, caught up in the excitement. I suppose that is due to me being late.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid I don't have the time right now to do any detailed analyses.

So we'll have to make do with...

Obviously, he did not want to explain his plans precisely, since that would only have alerted the Wolves to what he was trying to achieve.

Yes, now it's obvious. The problem with retracting votes is that flip-flopping adds to confusion, and that's not always good. Wolves like to do that, though not overtly. Now...is retracting votes overt or not? That I'm not sure of. I suppose it was for Boro, knowing what we do now.

Sorry, but for now, I'm off to ninja in the night...

EDIT: Of course, I cross-posted with two people...

[Durelin]

(Ah, one last word because I can't help it.)

^^Enough with the retractable votes thing, I know... :rolleyes:

[The Saucepan Man]

YesterDay he seemed careful; he only went so far as to call my behavior "interesting" and the like. Meanwhile, a lot of other villagers, probably innocent, began to more vocally accuse me, showing the wolves that I'm a safe target for them. ToDay I'm on SpM's Decidedly Wolvish list.My suspicions lay elsewhere until I reviewed the events of yesterday. I had already left the village square before your flip-flopping began, so there was little reason for me to consider you particularly suspicious before. It was precisely that flip-flopping and the apparent care which you were taking in placing your vote which led to a number of people beginning to suspect you towards the end of the Day and which prompted my suspicions overnight.

Interesting that you should seize on my comments when TGWBS was the first to voice suspicion of you today.

The problem with retracting votes is that flip-flopping adds to confusion, and that's not always good. Wolves like to do that, though not overtly.It seems to me that, all else being equal, Wolves are less likely than innocents to switch votes, as they leave less of a trail by voting only once. Especially on Day 1 when their main objective will be to avoid any major suspicion. And most especially yesterday, when I suspect that none of their number were ever in any serious danger.

[Celuien]

23: Joking suspicions Nogrod. LMP, SPM and Feanor are listed as three interesting and straightforward people.
24: Jokingly votes for me because I’m a ketchup grower. (Ketchup is a healthy vegetable! For shame! :p)
51: Retracts vote for me and votes SPM for his instructions to the Changeling.
78: Says that there wasn’t much to go on in her vote for SPM but didn’t want to leave a silly vote for me standing. Voted for SPM in case she couldn’t get back to change her vote, but thinks it would be a shame to lose him since he’s valuable when innocent. Says Boro is confusing, but probably just having fun with day one. Suspicious of under the radar type spawn, morm and LMP.
87: Dislikes day one because of personality adjustments. Says she doesn’t see her SPM vote as bandwagoning and is voting based on honest suspicion.
89: Points out never having played with retractable votes before. Is second guessing herself, thinks it’s nerve wracking.
98: Doesn’t think bandwagons are as suspicious as some people might believe. Says she’s suspicious whether she stands by her vote or not.
101: Suspcious of everyone. Thinks SPM lynching would be hasty now, only voted for him because she thought he’d be safe (!), switches to Durelin for ‘random postings without much substance.’

A few alarming things. Repeatedly says that she found SPM suspicious and voted for him as a result, then also says that it would be a shame to lose a valuable innocent, then says she only voted for him because she thought he'd be safe and never garner enough votes for lynching!

That last bit is classic lupine strategy. Cast a throwaway vote, and you'll never come under fire for lynching an innocent. And it seems that she's covering all approaches to her vote. Fishy.

Adding her to my watch list.

[Caranlondien]

Well, I started to make a list of all the villagers and my impression of them so far, but most of them were turning out to be "I won't know what to think until they've talked some more". So it seems better to do my usual disorganized, thinking aloud type of post...

As for toDay, SpM's latest post (#128, just in case I cross-post with him) seems reasonable, which is frustrating, as I'm finding it hard to single out any other suspects, aside from my general paranoia. YesterDay the other person I found most suspicious was Durelin, whose post (well technically posts) toDay seems innocent enough.

One thing that struck me is that Lommy seemed more aggressive than usual yesterDay. I'll be especially interested to hear more from her toDay. (Though my ancestors have a history of wrongfully suspecting her ancestors :rolleyes: )

I was also struck by LMP's quietness. However, I believe someone mentioned RL issues, which might explain that. morm seemed unusually quiet, too.

A few have struck me as particularly innocent-looking, but I don't think I'll help the wolves by singling them out :D

EDIT: Cross-posted with Celuien

[Celuien]

However, I believe someone mentioned RL issues, which might explain that.
That would have been me. I'm not positive about what's happening now, but I know LMP was busy recently, so I put it out as a suggestion for fairness' sake. He'll have to be the one to say definitively. ;)

[littlemanpoet]

Two graves have been dug and are now ready for the remains of Boro and Formy. A little help please?

*LMP gets help lugging corpses to gravesites*

All right then, a little bit of a eulogy and all that: Obviously these two were innocent, and good chaps they were indeed. Too bad they didn't help us as much as they wanted to to catch the lycans. Here's hoping their deaths helped more than their living words. There. Enough words. Now help me shove these in.

*LMP gets help shoving corpses into graves, then heaves dirt back in the holes*

(Hmph!) I think Spawn may be a werewolf. Guy's and Saucy's theories seem worthy of consideration.

Lommy I don't think is worth consideration just yet, (oof!) as she is known for picking an issue and riding it for all it's worth. So that doesn't seem like association of guilt to me.

Caran also seems worth consideration (heave!), based on Saucy's comments (http://www.forums.barrowdowns.com./showpost.php?p=471522&postcount=120).

Durelin is capabe of recklessness, so I won't write her off my suspect list yet.

For all the persuasiveness of the man, we need to keep an eye on Saucy. Do not (!) DO. NOT. (!) just assume that Saucy's innocent because he sounds innocent. I'll be watching him too.

Celuien's comments in post # 129 have me taking notice. Good eye there, Celuien!

++ CARANLONDIEN

Chew on that.

[mormegil]

I'm probably just adding to the suspicion around me

Yes you are! I really think that you are acting extremely nervous and exactly how I would suspect you to act as a wolf. You seem to be trying to divert any and all suspicion off you to others. Somebody shows moderate suspicion of you and you over react but not in an overt fashion. I think Celuien hit it very well in her post and I agree with LMP is correct as well in his vote. Ergo I vote

++Caranlondien

[The Saucepan Man]

I have just re-read Caran's posts from yesterday (among others) and come to much the same conclusion. Or, more accurately, they have confirmed the impression which I expressed earlier.

I am tempted to add my vote to the gathering clamour for her to be lynched.

Her original vote for me yesterday was based upon entirely specious reasoning. Apparently, I was instructing the Changeling how to win on the Wolves' side (as if she had not already worked it out for herself :rolleyes: ), yet it remains the case that the Changeling has a much better chance of winning if she plays for the village. The fact that some people might regard going for the Wolfish victory as an appealing challenge does not detract from the logic of what I was saying.

Then all the to-ing and fro-ing about whether to change her vote for me, apparently grounded on firm suspicions (as to which, see above) but not firm enough to prevent her from changing her vote when it looked like I might be lynched.

I do have one resevation, though. In #101, she actually admitted that she was looking to place a safe vote, ie a vote for someone who was unlikely to be lynched. Would a Wolf admit that?

[Caranlondien]

Hmm. I am in a rather awkward position, as 2/3 of my suspects for toDay now suspect me. 3/4, actually, counting SpM. I doubt they're all wolves (now there would be a terrifying team - lmp, morm, and SpM), as they'd not all be so bold as to go after the (I fear) soon-to-be-revealed-as-innocent me.

I'm acting odd, you say? I've never been in this position before. My hotel-situation yesterDay left me saying some contradictory things because I didn't have time to think carefully and I couldn't go back over the posts much because the connection was so slow. Admit it, innocent or not, we all must choose our words carefully to avoid being lynched. And I've never had a great deal of suspicion cast on me by so many players, all of whom are far more experienced than I. It's a rather intimidating experience! :eek:

In any case, I'll keep plugging away on my theories, which I hope will help when I'm dead and you all know you can believe me :rolleyes:

EDIT: Cross-posted with SpM

[Findëasëa]

I find all of these early votes for Caran interesting. YesterDay she was jumpy and flip-floppy, but it seemed to me like she was genuinely busy in the RL. Form was killed right after being the only one to vote for her. If she is a werewolf this would draw more attention to her, and she already had come under suspicion as of last night. The wolves could be pulling a double bluff, but at this stage of the game, why risk it?

Something is not right about all of the suspicion of Caran. My ancestor was in a village when one of her ancestors was a wolf, she did not act like she is acting now, instead she was the last wolf to die. She managed this by playing the helpful villager and flying under the radar. She might just be making a lot of mistakes, but my knowledge of Caran's playing style leads me to believe she would be a lot more careful about who she accused were she a wolf. Frankly, I did not follow her reasoning to vote to lynch SPM. It seemed like she was trying really hard to find a flaw. I don’t think that the wolves would take such a shaky path so early just to get SPM out of the picture. I think that we need to look at some of the more ‘safe’ looking people as wolves toDay.

X- posted with Caran and SPM
edit- typo

[littlemanpoet]

I see your point, Findëasëa.

So..... posting frequency:

The Saucepan Man 20
Caranlondien 11
Celuien 10
Thinlómien 9
Mithalwen 8
Kath 8
Findëasëa 8
the guy who be short 8
Cailín 7
Durelin 6
Feanor of the Peredhil 5
dancing spawn of ungoliant 5
Nogrod 7 (4 if you discount his after-Day One rampage)
littlemanpoet 4
mormegil 3
Lhunardawen 3
Nilpaurion Felagund 2
tom bombariffic 2

I'm not claiming that this tells us a WHOLE lot, only who may be trying to fly under the radar early. Nogrod has called undue attention to himself, as have Caranlondien and Durelin. My take on that is likely innocence. If this seems like a flip-flop to some of you, so be it: I reserve the right to change my mind based on new thoughts presented by intelligent co-players.

So I'm still suspicious of Spawn

I am surprised that spawn was caught up in the shoddy reasoning that led to him being lynched.

spawn, in a very long post, casually remarked that she thought Form was being more defensive than usual.

Tom, Lommy, spawn and Fin voted for Boro yesterday. I hunch that one of the werewolves may have voted for Boro.


Therefore:

-- Caranlondien

++ Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant

[Findëasëa]

Although posting frequency is something that we should examine, I think that there is a difference between volume and substance. The acting pattern that I find most suspicious at this time is that of the falsely helpful villager. The actions of someone who would fit into this pattern posts little of substance, instead choosing to leach off of others arguments while doing little theorizing. So instead of a contribution they might offer more of a commentary. I am going to look back to try to identify people who might fit into this category.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Fascinating reading material that you've all given me.

Based on vibes (cut me slack, I'm tired after packing my entire room up and moving home in one 103* afternoon while also stressing over the coming weekend and trying to finish rewrites), I'm currently leaning toward the innocence of Saucie and LMP. Those vibes are subject to change at any time, but right now I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and given that I'm leaning toward Spam's innocence, I'm also leaning toward listening to his opinions with more than a "he's probably a wolf so I'm going to ignore him."

I'm reserving my thoughts on Form's death and the Caran Bandwagon until after I've had some sleep.

[Thinlómien]

morm really worries me. Yesterday he posted twice, both posts only a few lines. He explained he had a lot of work, so I let it be. Today, however, when I came to check how our village is doing, I find one post from morm, only a few lines echoing things that have been said and adding one vote to a bandwagon. I find this very odd. This is not his usual playing style. Usually he discusses and gives theories and ends up with quarreling with somebody. (No offense, morm.) If I could imagine morm trying to fly under radar it'd be this, but this would be a stupid move from wolf-morm since it gathers attention. Furthermore, I've seen a wolf-morm and he played his normal way. So I have no idea what to make of this (expect that morm's busy and he just doesn't mention it on the TiG-thread :rolleyes: ). I will keep my eyes on this weird creature (:p). And morm, I'd be glad if you cared to explain.

Caran looks pretty bad now, but I hesitate to make her my suspect before I've reread through her posts myself. I think I might only be influenced by the public opinion.

[Cailín]

A lot of early suspicion and even some bandwagoning, I see. Now I may be wrong, but Caranlondien personally does not strike me as decidedly wolvish. I will have to review her posts again myself - as Lommy said, tis easy to be swayed by public opinion - yet she seems too forward and too genuine to be a wolf. My lorebooks say nothing on Caran as a fanged one, I think, but I'd say she'd be a more flying under radar type. So for now, I must agree with Fin.

The death of Boromir surprised and disappointed me greatly. His innocence was pretty obvious to me. Of course, I voted for an innocent too..

I find this very suspicious and wouldn't put it past both of them being wolves. I would like to hear why Cailin suddenly changed her mind. Spawn, meanwhile, appears to be very influential in her summary posts.

Well, I am not denying Spawn is not very influential, but my reasoning was as follows: there was no one I was really suspicious of, as I clearly stated before. So in traditional Day 1 style, I was grasping at straws. Secondly, I really had expected more contribution from Formendacil later on, and he did post more, but only after I had already left. And thirdly, I was trying to be 'fair'. A lot of time, people are exempt from Day 1 votes based on their reputation (oh - they'll be more helpful later on), which might not be the right way to go about this. Now I admit that's a bit shoddy, but frankly, I couldn't come up with a more decent case.

Form as an innocent dying does not surprise me. Probably the "be more helpful later on" thing combined with leaving the tiniest trail as possible.

As to Saucepan Man… I am inclined to trust him, still, but I acknowledge that we cannot blindly assume his innocence. That is why -in his case- I rely on the Seer / Changeling dreaming / becoming him. It sounds a little paranoid, but he's just too good to neglect.

I also agree - to an extent - with Lommy's thoughts on Morm.

I'm going to review Spawn's, Caran's and Fin's posts. Be back later.

[Lhunardawen]

I know I'm not the tragedienne, but I'm almost tempted to keel over and die with the wanderer, with whom I feel a bit of connection - we're both lost...sort of. Yet maybe I can help with finding and destroying the fiends who did this before I do.

So. Boromir's lynching yesterDay is really odd...reminds me of a certain Gurthang from a village of old: he died for presenting a possible strategy without really presenting it, if you know what I mean. Why can't we all learn that when people do this they're usually innocent? Just usually, mind.

Anyways, I mostly agree with SpM's analysis of the Boromir-voters. Right now I'm not yet suspicious of dancing spawn - the mere thought of her being a wolf makes me shudder. However with the usual mayhem of Day Ones I doubt the wolves would actually contribute to an innocent's death, so here ends my thoughts on Boromir's lynching.

Now, on to last Night's kill choice *wipes away tear*. The easiest explanation so far as I can see is that he left no trails yesterDay. And of course, it will confuse us. I think a double bluff from Caran is too far-fetched a theory; I'm more ready to believe that at least one of his voters - Elempi, SpM, or Cailín - is lupine. But even that is not enough basis to suspect them much.

I know how hard it is to read lengthy posts so I'll post my own suspicions separately, after I have time to organize my thoughts. Sort of.

[Lhunardawen]

Lommy got there before I did: yes, I find morm...unsettling. It doesn't seem to be him. So with Elempi. I find it hard to believe that he will jump to vote just like that. Maybe there's RL to blame for both of them, or they're trying a different playing style, or they're gauging reactions, or they're executing what Boromir insisted yesterDay as a way of using retractable votes to catch wolves. But I'm sure it's safe to say that this is odd behavior for them.

A case has also been made against Kakashi...I mean Durelin. Elempi said in her defense that she is capable of recklessness, but that's exactly the kind of reasoning that lets us ignore the bold wolves.

Finally, this probably makes no sense but I'm a bit wary of Fea. Randomness is always scary.

[Cailín]

Looking back, I cannot find the post TGWBS was referring to, which could have swayed me. That's a relief.

Spawn looks less wolvish to me after reviewing what she has said. Her vote for Boromir is a bit odd and something I don't agree with, but she also expressed suspicion of Formendacil. I would think Spawn the Wolf a little more subtle than having her main Day 1 suspects both killed off immediately, if you get what I mean.

Caranlondien was acting a little flip-floppy yesterDay. If she's a wolf, she is a decidedly lot braver than I guessed she would be (no offence meant, of course, Caran strikes me as the careful wolf type). She accused almost all the 'big names' which is quite a daring strategy.

I think a double bluff from Caran is too far-fetched a theory; I'm more ready to believe that at least one of his voters - Elempi, SpM, or Cailín - is lupine. But even that is not enough basis to suspect them much.

I agree and I don't.

I personally think the (majority of) wolves are among those people who mentioned Formendacil little if at all.

[Lhunardawen]

I forgot to add that though I'm uncomfortable with Fea's randomness, I count her unwillingness to use the retract votes function in her favor. So that's my opinion for everyone to see: I've never played with them before, but I will not retract my votes if I can help it, and I shall keep an eye on those who do it a lot.

Time to give in to timezones. We really need a doctor in these parts.

Hoom, hoom.

++DURELIN

I wouldn't put it past her to be a bold wolf.

Good Day, everyone.

[tom bombariffic]

Just checking in before I begin my morning's analysis of day 1 key players.

I'll be around more today than on day 1, which is good news (hopefully). As far as what has already been said goes, I'm certainly slightly swayed by this caranlondian suspicion. I think morm's emphasis on her over-reaction (lmp may have said this too) is a key point, and one that strikes me as very odd. I'm witholding judgement for now but I've got my better eye on you, Caran...

Having said this, I'm also suspicious of morm. This issue had been alluded to, most substantially by thinlomien, but never really discussed. I'm just very aware that morm's most recent ancestor was a wolf, who was very successful because he kept playing exactly like his ancestors. To behave the same again would cause suspicion, and so perhaps he felt that a change in style, becoming less dominant, may help him slip through the net. I'll be interested to see how he acts today.

I'll be back shortly having looked back properly at day 1.

bombariffic

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Nilpaurion Felagund has left the game.

You have been granted control of Nilpaurion Felagund's units.

[littlemanpoet]

I know for me, and perhaps for Morm this also applies: werewolf weariness. The interest is there, but the strength of mind just is taking a little while to catch up. SPM, however, his ancestors were out early in the last great tide of evil, and so he's raring to go. As to different playing style, I refer you to the fact that votes are retractable, and therefore, why not? Puts a little pressure on those suspected. Seems appropriate to use the device if it's there to be used. That's all for now.

[tom bombariffic]

SpM started out day 1 in a fairly light tone, with an in-character post predicting the outcome of the game (post 13).

He followed this immediately with a serious note about the changeling (they should be good) and then a random vote for fea.

This was a jokey, easy-going, day-1 start; practical, but taking it easy. However, when the village's confusion became clear, SpM took control.

Post 46 was a long one. After an initial in-character spiel, and a note to nilp (which, incidentally, just baffled me at the time), there followed a long argument for the changeling being 'good', and some observations on retractable votes (they can, and should, be used to our advantage). He declined (like boro, which he noted) to say how they could be useful, but maintained that they could.

He concluded this post with a long series of reactions to suspicious behaviour:
Fea for over-reacting to suspicions against her (including his)
Form and Lommy for claiming that Day 1 is useless
Nilp for his "lynch the loudmouths" campaign
Caran and Cailin (slightly suspicious of both) for jumping on the retractable votes bandwaggon.

Fea persuaded him to change his vote to form (reasoning that he was always suspicious of her, and that she had been posting in-character), though he found this in itself suspicious, and continued to watch her like a saucy hawk. He acknowledged himself that fea's quick reply to his comments about her showed that she wasn't as pressed for time as she made out, and that she was too quick to defend herself, and yet still changed his vote to form, who he had far less suspicions about. This is the only major thing from his participation on day 1 that I am worried about.

The next post also showed inconsistency, explaining how retractable votes can be useful (after saying that he wouldn't). He was not even pressed into doing this: Boromir was under suspicion, not him. However, to me, his diving in seemed more like an attempt to move the village in the right direction rather than anything particularly wolfish.

After this, an innocent response to kath's clarification of the changeling role, and the propounding of his ill-fated (now extinct) animalia theory.

a quick series of short posts followed, in which he basically replied to people doubting him. Again, there was very little suspicious in them. They were a defence of his posting against inconsistency (in which I agreed with sauce) and a couple of posts on his animalia theory.

In post 68, SpM actually contradicted celuien's defence of him, saying that he is suspicious, just not evil. I never like it when people say this, but an awful lot have, so he's not alone. In his next post, number 74, with his explanation of how the wolves should be acting and his categorisation of villagers into behavioural groups, he said that the signs of wolfishness would be ineffectual posting, or attempts to keep day 1 unprofitable. This was straight down the line of what he has been saying all along. So was his next post, in which he insisted on boromir's innocence.

Next he defended his categorisation of me as not particularly wolfish, basically saying I'm rubbish but not a wolf. Which is a fair point. :p I'm not sure whether he was implying that I was trying to say little of value, or that I just had said little of value, but I assume it was the latter, as the former would surely have made him more suspicious than he appears to be.




Thus ends my long and boring narration of saucepan man's life story. Now, perhaps, some analysis.

At first, I was suspicious of him. His early lack of seriousness followed by a sudden flood of earnest posts about boromir and retractable votes struck me as odd, and my initial assumption was that, after trying to keep a low profile, he saw himself being suspected and tried to take control of the voting to save himself.

But I'm not so sure. Whilst over the subject of feanor he did change his mind rather inexplicably, he has been by and large extremely consistent in his attitude, and was proven right about boromir. He has also tried to look at everyone, rather than campaigning against a particular person.

One thing that does make me uncomfortable is the overt way in which he took control; given the killing of formendacil, a particularly low-participating player, his control of the village worried me. But the voting for boromir was strongly against his wishes, so perhaps I am over'stating his influence, and the kill was on someone he voted for (form), which would be a bold move for a wolf.

Looking over yesterday has reassured me. I think it's important to watch how he tries to influence people, and how he reacts if others (eg morm) become more prominent as well, but for now he's clear of suspicion in my mind.

bombariffic

[The Saucepan Man]

As to Saucepan Man… I am inclined to trust him, still, but I acknowledge that we cannot blindly assume his innocence. That is why -in his case- I rely on the Seer / Changeling dreaming / becoming him.With all these warm, fuzzy vibes I seem to be getting at the moment, it’s quite possible that the Wolves will remove me from the equation overnight. :rolleyes: Come on people, I want some suspicion! :D

The actions of someone who would fit into this pattern posts little of substance, instead choosing to leach off of others arguments while doing little theorizing.I agree that this would have been the Wolfish strategy yesterday, when there was little sense in the Wolves taking risks. Today, they might be a little more influential in an attempt to sway the village, particularly if one of their number is in the firing line. Those who seemed to me yesterday to fall into the pattern described by Fin are Mith, Elempi, morm, TGWBS and Caran.

I am still wary of Caran. I take the point that she has been less careful than we might expect from a Wolfish Caran and that she is not the type to go for the bluff of killing the one who voted for her. On the latter point, though, she would be one of three Wolves and she has acknowledged that she is easily swayed. Today, she has spent a fair bit of energy defending herself, but that could go either way. I also remain doubtful that a Wolf would openly have admitted trying to place a safe vote. If she is innocent, then there may indeed be something malign behind the quick votes for her today, following the suspicions initially raised by TGWBS and me – especially on Elempi’s part, given the speed with which he changed his vote following some points raised in Caran’s favour.

I also remain wary of Lommy, since she seemed to be the main protagonist behind the briefings against Boro yesterday. Plus, on reviewing what she said, she did get rather tangled up and flustered in the retractable votes and Day 1 debates yesterday, when pressed by Boro and me.

Retractable votes create confusion. There are lots of early votes thrown around... I understand people just want to stir the discussion a bit, or have fun, but wouldn't that make a perfect cover for a wolf? Especially when there's plenty of these random votes around...Negative and unhelpful.

... the prevailing conditions being retractable votes and Day 1, I really can't say anything, except that whoever the wolves are it's easy to hide for them toDay.Again, unhelpful.

I didn't say retractables are not a benefit to the village, because they are, in some situations. I just don't like people toying with them.She may not have said retractable votes were of no benefit to the village but, in labelling them confusing and as providing cover for Wolves, she was pretty much saying that they are of gereater benefit to the Wolves than to the village.

So I'm not completely anti-Day1, you see. I just dislike them on Day1s.This was her objection to my suggestion that she was anti-Day 1s. But my point was that sitting and railing about how awful Day 1s are and doing little else is entirely unhelpful. As Boro noted at the time, disliking Day 1s on Day 1 falls into that category. This is also the post where she seized upon Tom’s point about Boro being suspicious for not explaining what he was doing with his votes, essentially the argument which led to Boro being lynched.

In Lommy’s favour, I am still doubtful that any of the Wolves would have felt the need to vote for Boro yesterday. However, when she voted, it was by no means certain that his neck would end up in the noose. Perhaps, having pursued him with such vigour, she felt that voting for him was less risky than switching suspicions. Her other main suspect, I believe, was me, and I was looking to be in some danger at the time she voted.

morm really worries me. Yesterday he posted twice, both posts only a few lines. He explained he had a lot of work, so I let it be. Today, however, when I came to check how our village is doing, I find one post from morm, only a few lines echoing things that have been said and adding one vote to a bandwagon. I find this very odd. This is not his usual playing style.Agreed. I would be surprised if a Wolfish morm chose to adopt such an uncharacteristic approach. But it may be that it has been forced upon him by circumstances. Not enough to arouse major suspicion, but I’ll be keeping my eye on him.

Finally, this probably makes no sense but I'm a bit wary of Fea. Randomness is always scary.No, it makes perfect sense. She can be a tricksy one, that Fea. I am still concerned over the way she was so keen to stomp on the mild suspicions expressed about her early on yesterday. It was, as I recall, her main contribution to the debate yesterday. I also don’t like her last minute vote for me. With only Fin and Nogrod to vote, and with Nogrod having made clear that I was not high in his suspicions, there was little chance that I would be lynched at that point, so it was a fairly safe “throwaway” vote. She certainly remains high in my suspicions.

Finally, as to Durelin, I wouldn’t put it past her to be a bold Wolf either, but her behaviour yesterday was unduly reckless for a Wolf on Day1.

[tom bombariffic]

In looking over sauce's actions, It hit me just how little morm has participated - I knew he's only posted a little, but it's all been very low on content as well.

I take lmp's point about werewolf fatigue - but that's no reason not to explain your votes. I know it would be silly for him to change his playing style so drastically - but this may be the perfect bluff. Also, as I've already suggested, he may have felt that he had to after his immediate ancestor's success.

I'll be watching to see if he posts later in the day.

bombariffic

[The Saucepan Man]

Nice analysis, Tom. :)

A few points:

Fea didn't persuade me not to vote for her. My early vote for her was, in part, a ruse and was never intended necessarily to stand. Even though it did provoke a reaction, I was concerned that I might be reading too much into it, influenced by the fact that I always find Fea suspicious. I didn't like Form's Day 1 attitude and thought he looked more suspicious than her at the time, so switched my vote. Fea remains very much in my thoughts, though.

With regard to your Boro vote, it looked to me at the time to be a rather makeshift argument to get you in the village consciousness without attracting too much attention, and I did not agree with it. But I accept that there was little to go on at the time. Your contributions today have been impressive, and I am feeling pretty comfortable about you at the moment.

As for me taking control, well I do like to get my thoughts and arguments across and sometimes I do so aggressively. If I think someone is suspicious, I generally like to outline my reasoning as best I can. It's the advocate in me. :rolleyes: My ancestors have been accused of trying to take control and influence the village. To an extent, that's kind of the point of the game (at least the way I play it). But no one should simply accept anyone else's arguments, theories or reasoning without considering them and making up their own mind. And there are some pretty strong-willed villagers in this particular village, so I am not sure that there is much of a danger of any one preson taking too much control. :D

[Thinlómien]

I know for me, and perhaps for Morm this also applies: werewolf weariness. The interest is there, but the strength of mind just is taking a little while to catch up.A good point I didn't think about. But according to my experiences, this weariness usually occurs only with ordos. So should we conclude morm's most probably innocent? Or could he bluff here? I'm waiting for an explanation, whatever the case is.

I also remain wary of Lommy, since she seemed to be the main protagonist behind the briefings against Boro yesterday. What do you mean by "the main protagonist behind the briefings against Boro yesterday"? That it was mainly my fault he got lynched?

[the guy who be short]

Interesting that you should seize on my comments when TGWBS was the first to voice suspicion of you today. (Panman aimed at durelin)It's not like you, SpM, to make mistakes. In my one fleeting mention of durelin today, I supported her for being anti-retractable votes (though it has now been pointed out that she wasn't quite so anti-retractable as I thought) and pro-random voting. You can't afford to make mistakes, SpM, because you're you. This doesn't look good for you.


Looking back, I cannot find the post TGWBS was referring to, which could have swayed me. That's a relief.
Post 49 by spawn. In particular, the line Form seems more frustrated and complains about Day One more than usually.
All this theorizing about morm and LMP and Caran and durelin and whatnot is all very interesting. But I'm going to ignore it for the moment. You see, one in five of us is still a wolf, and I don't know who I should be listening to. I shall therefore go over posts and form my own conclusions. Perhaps some with coincide with others' ideas. I will then look over others' ideas again, and analyse them, presuming I have time.

Cailin - fair enough. Thank you for replying.

[Thinlómien]

I'm going now and I'm not 100% sure that I will be back. So

++mormegil

I'm a bit wary of him plus I'm no admirer of his current playing style.

If I will be back, as I probably will, I will take another look at the village and find some real suspects.
If not this is it for toDay.

[the guy who be short]

Post 6 - Nothing of importance.
Post 10 - Votes spawn. No reason.
Post 19 - Switches vote to SpM, again with no reasoning..
Post 39 - Says since he is innocent, he won't explain how retractables help him, but they do. Changes vote to Lommy because she says retractables cause confusion and would be perfect cover for a wolf.
(Post 40, Lommy says she says retractables can help the village but doesn't like people toying with them.)
(Post 43, Tom bombariffic votes Boro for not revealing how he will use retractables and emphasising his innocence. Says there is no real evidence, but those two things caught his attention.)
(Post 46 - SpM supports Boro)
(Post 49 - Spawn subtly attacks Boro, saying he is fickle and threatens people.)
(Post 71, Lommy says she is uncomfortable with Boro because another wolf acted like him once. She sympathises with tom bombariffic's points.)
(Post 75, Findeasea says a wolf wouldn't argue about retractables as much as Boro did.)
(Post 77, SpM defends Boro lots.)
(Post 81 - Cailin says he looks innocent.)
(Post 85 - Mith insinuates that Boro is a gifted because of his early note and vote for spawn.)
(Post 90 - Lommy votes Boro saying she gave reasoning in post 71.)
Post 93 - Says he will stick for his Lommy vote because she doesn't explain how retractables give wolves cover and for shoddy reasoning. Says he dislikes random votes, what foolery. Vote of confidence in SpM.
(Post 94, Durelin says she is getting suspicious of Boro for not working in a team.)
Post 95 - Boromir responds by saying there's no reason for him to work in a team he disagrees with. Defends his multiple voting. Says he wants people to think for themselves.
(Post 96, spawn accuses Boromir of twisting Lommy's words in post 40.)
(Post 97, mith is no longer confident in boro)
(Post 99, Durelin says if we all acted like Boro, we'd all be alone.)
(Post 100, Cailin says Boro seems innocent and uses retractables to provoke discussion.)
(Post 105, Spawn votes Boromir for feeling foul.)
(Post 108, Wonderful post by Findeasea about how Boromir doesn't work in a team. She votes for him.)
Post 109 - Claims he didn't twist Lommy's quote. Says Fin, Nogrod, SpM are innocent. Expects more from morm, LMP. Says Mith is worrying because she openly stated she thought he was gifted.

Dear Lord, that was horrendously long. Far longer than I expected. So the analysis that should go with this will come a bit later. I post this for reference.

[mormegil]

I know for me, and perhaps for Morm this also applies: werewolf weariness. The interest is there, but the strength of mind just is taking a little while to catch up. SPM, however, his ancestors were out early in the last great tide of evil, and so he's raring to go. As to different playing style, I refer you to the fact that votes are retractable, and therefore, why not? Puts a little pressure on those suspected. Seems appropriate to use the device if it's there to be used. That's all for now.

I'm doing my morning catch up and have to say that I agree 100% with this one. I wish I could give you a big hug right now LMP because this is exactly how I feel. Thinlo, perhaps I don't wish to use the town notice board to explain an absence of a couple of hours as everybody else seems so set on. I never mind a bit of suspicion about me but Thinlo your desire to grasp at any straw that might be moderately suspicious is in itself rather suspicious to me. If memory serves me well you did this yesterday with Boromir. I haven't had a lot of time to reread the thread and garner suspicions yet but one thing that sticks out to me is you and your desire to twist and turn everything said and done. Your interaction with SpM yesterday shocked me at how you would twist his words and weren't willing to understand what he was saying.

My current top suspects today are
Caran
Thinlo
TGWBS

Oh and just so nobody, Thinlo and others, freak out I've been told that there is a 'butchers' conference today and I will be in attendance. However this lets out at the same time as the village ends voting so I won't be back until tomorrow, if I'm alive.

[Mithalwen]

Am reading now and then - not able to really post yet.. sorry.... Bad RL day. As soon as I can you will get my full attention.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I'm finally here, but I'm afraid I can't participate very much today (how convenient, you think, just when people were starting to suspect her ;) ).
If you feel the urge to vote for me, go ahead, because I'm not in the mood for being very concerned about that. Now, time for some thoughts of my fellow villagers.

Usually the wolves want to get rid of the Seer as soon as possible. If Form was killed because the wolves thought that he was the Seer, it looks pretty bad for Caran who received a vote from Form yesterDay. It might be stupid behaviour from a Seer to vote for a dreamed wolf right away, and the wolves might have guessed that, but I don't know if the wolves want risk to keep the Seer around any longer than they have to, so either Form was mistaken for the Seer or then his death was supposed to throw us off the wolves' tracks.

Caran is acting more defensively and "insecurely" than what would be necessary if she was an innocent, but my ancestor has supected hers for the same reasons before and she turned out to be not guilty. I'll keep an eye on her.

Sauce still seems different from his usual self, but then again, quite a few people have switched their style, so I need to go through his posts more carefully when I have time before I'll get influential or whatever. ( :p )

I'm a bit disappointed in Lmp's reason to vote for me. I don't care if he votes for me or anyone else, but he cast a vote just saying that one of the wolves might have voted for Boro, and he thinks that Sauce and TGWBS might be onto something. I don't see either of them really accusing me, so I'd appreciate if someone actually made a case against me before basing a vote for one. I understand the point about WW tiredness, but it would be nice if people could stay alert long enough for giving as good reasons for a vote as possible.

Lommy is being as flip-floppy as ever which is somewhat reassuring, but she seems a bit edgier than usual. I'm not so sure about her anymore.

I'm still wary of TGWBS, but I'll get back to that later if I have time.

[The Saucepan Man]

It's not like you, SpM, to make mistakes. In my one fleeting mention of durelin today, I supported her for being anti-retractable votes (though it has now been pointed out that she wasn't quite so anti-retractable as I thought) and pro-random voting. You can't afford to make mistakes, SpM, because you're you. This doesn't look good for you.Actually, that was addressed to Caran. :rolleyes:

[Cailín]

Just quickly popping in to let you know I'll be active a bit later tonight... I first have to finish this Irish Law project otherwise I'll die. Um, sort of.

And a quick question: Mormegil and Spawn voice suspicion of TGWBS and I'd like to know their reasoning behind this, because either I missed or there never was a case against him...

[Durelin]

*basks in all the attention she is getting for the moment*

Anyway... I wanted to pop in just to make one observation, as unfortunately that is all I have time for right now. But I will return; I assure you all. I just wanted to make note of a possible connection between SPaMan and Boro-man's death. It's really rather silly, and maybe so glaringly obvious that it should not even be considered, but it's all I've got right now.

Saucie decidedly defended Boro, and Boro turns out innocent. Isn't it possible that this was set up so that Sauce turned out looking good? Of course, he could not be sure if his attempts to persuade, genuine or not, would not work, and so I suppose there had to be a lynch plan B. Was that Formendacil, maybe? That would be to obvious...

Of course, if Saucie is wolfish, then it might be that this contradicts my suspicion of tom bombariffic, who is suspicious of Saucie, but then, why would any wolves risk working outwardly unified?

This is just me thinking aloud...

*ninjas off*

[littlemanpoet]

Spawn's rather diatribic reaction to my (retractable) vote for her leaves me more dubious regarding her than before. She doth protest too much, methinks. 'Nuff said for now.

[Thinlómien]

I never mind a bit of suspicion about me but Thinlo your desire to grasp at any straw that might be moderately suspicious is in itself rather suspicious to me. If memory serves me well you did this yesterday with Boromir. Grasp any straw that might be moderately suspicious? Morm, have you ever heard that you have to suspect somebody in ww since not everyone is innocent? Good heavens, I have to vote somebody. And I think it's better to vote someone you suspect a little bit than throw a random vote. Anyway, I understand that it's a matter of opinion, so...

...one thing that sticks out to me is you and your desire to twist and turn everything said and done. Your interaction with SpM yesterday shocked me at how you would twist his words and weren't willing to understand what he was saying.
Well, I didn't quite get some of his points. Maybe I'm stupid. :rolleyes: Or maybe he can't explain so that I can understand. If I twisted his words, like you said, it was unintentional. If you want to show me the passages I did so in your opinion I'm only glad to explain/correct you or admit my mistake, if I've misunderstood something. For I can't know what passages you mean. And if I was aggressive towards SPM yesterday, it was because I suspected him because I felt he twisted my words, and other people's as well.

but she seems a bit edgier than usual. Maybe I'm finally taking after my dad and his well-known aggressiveness... :p

[the guy who be short]

Actually, that was addressed to Caran.Oh. Now I look stupid. Thank you. :D


And a quick question: Mormegil and Spawn voice suspicion of TGWBS and I'd like to know their reasoning behind this, because either I missed or there never was a case against him...
I didn't notice her Spawniness, but the Monkey Man seems rather reluctant to voice his worries whilst maintaining me on his likely to be lupine list.

As for SpM-Boro. That could just be a clever SpM. To be honest, I've resigned myself to not knowing what SpM is and largely ignoring him in my analyses. He's too tricksey.


In other news, I saw a Pinsir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinsir) today, which was rather exciting as they are quite rare. Malheureusement, it fainted afore I could catch it.

Pokemon! Attrapez-les tous!

What? No in-character posts after day one? Are you all completely barking?
Like Growlithe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growlithe)? This is far too much fun to give up.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Ooh, Saucie's thinking about me. It's okay, I'm used to guys thinking about me. Just no wolf-whistles, 'k love? :cool: :p

Seriously, though... TGWBS is currently my biggest interest.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Cailín, this is what I said about TGWBS yesterday.TGWBS is confusing me with all those Pidgeys and stuff. I've never been a fan of Pokemon, maybe that's my problem, but to me it looks like that he's made his presence clear only with talking about those creatures. When I read his posts they have little substance in them. I believe we have another Day 1 hater here...

His random abacus told him to vote for Cailín and he is confident about his choice. He says that Sauce is being inconsistent, but wonders if he should have used smilies. His comments about other affairs of the village (votes & roles) are "don't care" and "apathetic" with a few lines of speculation.
When morm voted for him, he wanted to know morm's reason. Would it have helped if he had said that he has an abacus, too..?

Here are my thoughts from toDay.

#116 - Says that based on Day 1 only Durelin, Caran and Fin have been noticeable - Caran in a bad way.

#118 - Lists Form's posts and all who mentioned him yesterDay. Speculates why Form was killed and his conclusion is that we're on wrong track and thw wolves want to keep it that way.

Finds spawn suspicious because she casually remarked that Form wasn't acting as usual, and Cailín because she changed her opinion about Form.

#122 - Agrees with Sauce that there might not have been any wolves voting for Boro.

#154 - Says that Sauce can't afford to make mistakes because of his reputation. He's going to ignore morm, lmp, Caran and Durelin for the time being and wants to form his own conclusions about things because he doesn't know whom to trust. Thanks Cailín for replying to him.

#156 - Makes a list of posts that had something to do with Boro getting lynched.

#165 - Says that morm is rather reluctant to voice his thoughts while suspecting TGWBS. Ignores Sauce in his analyses because he's too tricky. Talks about Poke stuff.


TGWBS has posted a lot, but a big part of it is strategical talk such as why Form was killed. He mentiones some names as supicious, but doesn't really accuse anyone or make cases. At the beginning of the Day he said that Caran looked bad, but then he ignores her whereas a moment later when he had said that he'd ignore morm, TGWBS wonders his behaviour. Well, opinions do change, but he suspected Cailín for that earlier toDay...

I'm wary of people who mostly mentions some names without really stating what they think of them or analysing them, but to be fair, TGWBS promised an analysis of his list in #156, so I look forward to that. In the meantime I remain slightly suspicious of him.

Spawn's rather diatribic reaction to my (retractable) vote for her leaves me more dubious regarding her than before. She doth protest too much, methinks. 'Nuff said for now. I guess I've used to seeing you more verbose, but to me it seemed odd.

[tom bombariffic]

I've rather abandoned my big-players conspiracy having talked myself into believing SpM, and unexpected RL issues took up my morning, which I planned to spend looking at one or two others.

I have to be off in about half an hour, and will probably be voting for Caranlondien or Spawn. I'm going back now to quickly look back over their activity, may not have time to make a long analysis like I did with Sauce but will do my best.

bombariffic

[the guy who be short]

According to Mr SPaM (Hey, other people are saying it too...), Tom, Lommy, Spawn and Fin voted for Boro. Yay. A relatively small number of people to analyse.

Tom - At the time of Tom's vote, it seemed unlikely that Boro would be killed. 8 Other people had garnered one vote each. It is entirely possible that he was a wolf casting a safe vote.

Thus far, Tom has posted fice (five times).

Post 43 - He votes boro, but says "There is no real evidence against boromir." Why not vote for one of the eight others then?

And that was his only post on Day 1! Hmm.

Day 2 He makes more sense though. He makes sound points about Form's death, but largely echoes others. (Post 124). Then he vaguely accuses morm and Caran in post 146. Post 149 centres on SpM and doesn't make much sense to me - spM may be influential, but he doesn't control the village. Post 151 states the LMP and morm should explain votes, something I agree with.

Conclusion: Neutral. He makes a little sense, but I don't know what to think.




Seriously, though... TGWBS is currently my biggest interest.
What is it with girls in this village stalking me? First Kath, with her blunt admittal of "wanting me" just before she got killed, now you. And I'm not even making a pokemon use attract. :rolleyes: You should know you can't have me...

[Thinlómien]

A lot of people are voicing suspicions of TGWBS and I can clearly see why. Relying to my lorebooks I hesitate to take sides though I'm a bit suspicious of him, since my lorebooks tell of me being quite confident of his wolvishness and contributing to his death only to find out he was an innocent. He can be quite baffling.

Morm is still think suspicious, since he has been mostly nonsense toDay as well, his latest post only naming three suspects without explanations except his counter-attack on me.

I read through Cara's posts as I said I would, and I found out that she mostly speaks nonsense (sorry, ex-sis), voices suspicions (but mainly old ones) and the only interesting point she makes is that the Changeling would probably try to take the Evil side, instead of taking the safer path. ...as the Changeling would likely take it as a challenge to do the more difficult thing... Who among us would read that and think, "Okay, I'll take the easy option"? No, we all want grand tales to tell at the end. And I think this Changeling is a threat because of this ego factor.Maybe. We can't know before we know who the Changeling is. When I reread this I started to wonder if it's a wolf we see here, trying to sway the Changeling to play for the evil side...? I would also like to add the point that I wouldn't be surprised to find Cara a bold wolf.

Fea I found most baffling. She's slippy. I don't know what to make of her. She certainly needs to be watched.

Mith worries me too. She's posts pretty much, but she's quite insubstantial. Of this, if of something, could be used Sauce's term "maintaining a presence".

LMP is too a lot more nonsense than usually. I'm gradually getting more worried of him.

Someone pointed an interesting point on Cailín and her being swayed by spawn rather flip-floppily (don't say I'm not the best one to accuse anyone of flip-floppery, but I mean that whereas I tend to flip-flop, Cailín doesn't). Also, it seemed that she started to make sense after there had been worried remarks on her behaviour.

Fin feels quite innocent right now, but I'd like to mention her in this post since I have the feeling that she will fly under the radar and if she's a wolf that's a very bad thing.

Now, I see that's about half the village, if not even more. So maybe this could be of use, to arrange my thoughts and let you be aware of them:

Order of suspiciousness
Morm/Cara
LMP
Cailín/Mith
TGWBS
Fea
Fin

EDIT: xed with spawn, bomba and guy

[the guy who be short]

TGWBS has posted a lot, but a big part of it is strategical talk such as why Form was killed. He mentiones some names as supicious, but doesn't really accuse anyone or make cases. At the beginning of the Day he said that Caran looked bad, but then he ignores her whereas a moment later when he had said that he'd ignore morm, TGWBS wonders his behaviour. Well, opinions do change, but he suspected Cailín for that earlier toDay...

I'm wary of people who mostly mentions some names without really stating what they think of them or analysing them, but to be fair, TGWBS promised an analysis of his list in #156, so I look forward to that. In the meantime I remain slightly suspicious of him.I'm making "cases" at the moment, though they end up neutral often. You see, I'm rather unwilling to jump on minor details and accuse somebody of wolvery. It often ends in innocent people being hanged.

I said Caran was easily swayed by others and this was bad. This was hardly a detailed case against her and the discussion turned to more interesting matters.

I did not say I'd ignore morm, or, if I did, I didn't mean it. I meant that I would delay forming a case against him - as others have done - to allow my own ideas to develop. I have not formed a case against him, I have merely asked him to explain his perpetual distrust of me.

I suspected Cailin of being in league with you. She then responded adequately for me to change her mind. But I still think you influenced her.

[Nogrod]

Just reporting in...

Sorry about toDay so far, but I've been at work for the last 13 hours (and still have some 30+ essays to read tonight)! But now I need something completely different for a while.

I'll just check the thread and join you then.

[The Saucepan Man]

I know for me, and perhaps for Morm this also applies: werewolf weariness. The interest is there, but the strength of mind just is taking a little while to catch up.

I'm doing my morning catch up and have to say that I agree 100% with this one. I wish I could give you a big hug right now LMP because this is exactly how I feel.What is this werewolf weariness rubbish? A man who is weary of Werewolf is weary of life! ;)

But seriously, if you cannot find the energy to commit, you should not be in this village. Personally, even if I am weary, I cannot resist rabbiting on at length whenever I come to the village square. I generally find so much to talk about and comment on that I am almost compelled to pipe up. And morm and Elempi are usually the same. I don’t buy this werewolf fatigue thing and I am beginning to wonder if it is a tactic. Then again, they would be foolish Wolves indeed if they were both to use the same excuse for their quietitude.

What do you mean by "the main protagonist behind the briefings against Boro yesterday"? That it was mainly my fault he got lynched?Frankly, yes. As I see it, you got into a tussle with him and so found yourself arguing against him. Then, when grounds for suspicion of him were aired, you seized on and promulgated them. Those grounds formed the main plank of the argument against him. It does not follow, of course, that you are guilty. You may just have been a misguided innocent. But, as I said, I am wary of you.

Sauce still seems different from his usual self …This seems to be said about me by someone in every village I inhabit. And they never seem to explain exactly what they mean by it.

Saucie decidedly defended Boro, and Boro turns out innocent. Isn't it possible that this was set up so that Sauce turned out looking good?Ah yes. I wondered how long it would be before this came up. I actually indicated my belief in Boro’s likely innocence a long time before he became a serious lynch candidate and was very surprised when he ended up being lynched. Fact is, he never looked particularly guilty to me, quite the contrary, and the arguments against him always looked rather spurious. Those responsible for promulgating them are either malign or they were misguided. Besides, if I was a Wolf and had decided to align myself with an innocent Boro, I would have wanted him to stick around a lot longer than he did.

Spawn's rather diatribic reaction to my (retractable) vote for her leaves me more dubious regarding her than before. She doth protest too much, methinks.You think so? I thought that it was a rather reasonable response. It is understandable for someone to expect some reasoning when a vote is cast for them.

And a quick question: Mormegil and Spawn voice suspicion of TGWBS and I'd like to know their reasoning behind this, because either I missed or there never was a case against him...I am slightly uneasy about TGWBS. He contributed very little yesterday and made a “random” vote that could be interpreted as a safe Wolfish vote. And today, despite a promising start, he is failing to live up to his promise. In #154, he said that he could not trust what anyone was saying and would carry out his own analysis and reach his own conclusions. Yet, despite an a lengthy analysis of Boro’s death (#156), he seems to have come up with little to show for it so far.

My main thoughts remain with Fea, though. And no, Fea, they are not wolf-whistly thoughts (in either sense), but similar to the thoughts that might run through the mind of a mouse when eyeing up a particularly hungry cat. Has Fea actually made any contribution to this village other than reacting to some mild suspicion on Day 1 and casting an unreasoned (and safe-looking) vote for me? Because, if she has, I have not noticed it. Busy elsewhere she may be, but she still manages to pop in every so often without ever actually saying anything that might help us in catching the Wolves. She hasn’t even tried messing with our minds very much, which is unusual for her. Now she’s interested in TGWBS, but doesn’t say why. She’s unnerving and unhelpful, so I am going to revert to my original gut feeling on this.

+ + FEANOR OF THE PEREDHIL

Edit: Cross-posted with some of TGWBS's "Death of Boro" conclusions, so he has at least come up with something now in consequence of his early analysis.

[tom bombariffic]

I have to go now, and though he wasn't on my recent list of 2, I'm going for morm.

Turns out I'd misread his post earlier; I thought he was coming back after his butchery, but apparently he's not.

I am reluctant to punish him for his 'werewolf fatigue' because I can see how it would affect your enthusiasm, but somehow I just don't buy it. He took the trouble to come in and catch up reading, but then listed 3 votes without saying why.

I am still suspicious that this 'weariness' is an excuse for being a quiet wolf, and I will be voting appropriately.

++ Morm

[Crossed with SpM]

[The Saucepan Man]

Elempi => Caran (Caran-1)
Morm => Caran (Caran-2)
Elempi ≠> Caran => spawn (Carn-1, spawn-1)
Lhuna = > Durelin (Caran-1, spawn-1, Durelin-1)
Lommy => morm (Caran-1, spawn-1, Durelin-1, morm-1)
SpM => Fea (Caran-1, spawn-1, Durelin-1, morm-1, Fea-1)
Tom => morm (Caran-1, spawn-1, Durelin-1, morm-2, Fea-1)

[the guy who be short]

Second person to vote for Boro. Again, little chance of Boro being lynched at this point - SpM had three votes, Form and I two each.

However, as SpM said, Lommy seemed far too violent in her attacks on Boro. There would be no need for a wolf to be so loud or aggressive on Day 1. So, unless she's a stupid wolf, I don't see that happening.

Spawn should have been wily enough not to fall for attacking Boro, as SpM remarks. However...she put Boro in the lead, something I don't think a wolf would willingly do. But I definitely wouldn't put it past wolf-spawn.

Fin... I don't know. I don't know if she's daring enough to vote for Boro last as a wolf. I suspect not.

So I suspect spawn a little.

Now I have put my own thoughts down, I can turn to analysing mormegil, Caran and durelin, whom I am most interested in at the moment.

[Caranlondien]

The voting so far:
LMP => Caran (Caran-1)
morm => Caran (Caran-2)
LMP ≠> Caran => Spawn (Caran-1, Spawn-1)
Lhuna => Durelin (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1)
Lommy => morm (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, morm-1)
SPM => Feanor (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1)
Tom => morm (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-2)

Earlier toDay (note: before any of the voting started), my main suspects were LMP, morm, and Lommy. And by "main" suspects, I guess I really mean "minor", because I didn't have a strong feeling about any of them. Anyway, LMP and morm seem quieter than usual, but I've found their responses satisfactory, and I'm not ready to vote for either of them just now.

Lommy's latest post is back to what I rather expect from her - she accuses, in her own words, half of the village. I'm still watching her, though.

I'm glad to see Nogrod is back, because he's another I'd like to hear more from. I also have rather a bad feeling from Fea and spawn... Time for analysis. I'll post them in a separate post, though... back in a minute.

EDIT: cross-posted with [B]SpM, Tom, SpM, and TGWBS... I added the votes cast since then

EDIT2: I made a mistake in my voting list... :rolleyes:

[Caranlondien]

Haha, I didn't even check to see if someone else had posted the voting so far... :rolleyes: Anyway...

Fea
Day One
Post #1: Playfully accuses Boromir, Sauce, and TGWBS
#26: Playful defense of herself
#47: Says she won't participate in retractable votes; says she'll think about the changeling
#59: Says she doesn't think Kath would include clues to the wolves' identities in the narration
#107: Votes for SpM "Because I currently have nobody better to vote for."
Day Two
#139: Leaning towards innocence of SpM and lmp, therefore leaning towards listening to SpM's opinions. Reserving thoughts on Form's death and the Caran Bandwagon until she's had some sleep.

(Please let me know if I missed a post from her somewhere...) She's maintained a presence, but, well, it always just feels like she's hiding something. I guess I can only put it down to a bad vibe. She's acting how I would act if I were a wolf - short posts, commenting on what everyone else says, being very careful.

[Mithalwen]

Hi, At last I am here. Obviously having found Caran suspicious yesterday I will want to look again now that there are so many others also with this view!

Yes Cailin my vote for Fea was a bit unfair but I know she can cope and might even be insulted if I didn't think her worthy of a first day punt. I gave Caran the benefit of the doubt because I don't think our paths have crossed before.

I have had a few thoughts about this animal thing... I think Kath has either deliberately or accidentally mixed them up. Boromir, for all his fine qualities is more of a dog person than a cat person. Given his longstanding avatar, I would be very surprised if the coyote wasn't his pick not Formendacil's. Whose the Lion's was I couldn't say for sure though if the number three is significant I would make an educated guess at the Pan Man :rolleyes: (who categorises me a little harshly as a "leech "I feel; I did an independent review of the augers and my main conclusion was that he was probably innocent ... is he grateful? No, he wants to be suspected now.... no pleasing some folk.)

Now I shall have a proper look at what has been going on.


Anyway I must have a proper look.

[Mithalwen]

(Please let me know if I missed a post from her somewhere...) She's maintained a presence, but, well, it always just feels like she's hiding something. I guess I can only put it down to a bad vibe. She's acting how I would act if I were a wolf - short posts, commenting on what everyone else says, being very careful.


No disrespect but judging Fea against what seems the "sensible" course is probably not helpful. I have never known a careful Fea. She is not a percentage player, especially if she is a wolf, she is a high roller and takes spectacular risks. As a result she tends to veer between breathtaking brilliance and disaster. If I find your assessment of her actions accurate, it would incline me more to think her innocent....

[Caranlondien]

Dancing Spawn
Day One
Post #11: In-character Day 1 stuff
#49: Notes that people are acting more carelessly than usual, specifically Boromir, Formendacil, and perhaps Cailín. Thinks retractable votes make it more confusing because it's harder to keep track of who has what number of votes.
#96: Comments on skirmish between Sauce and Lommy. Not very suspicious of either of them, but wary of "clueless villager" act by SpM. Comments that TGWBS doesn't seem to be posting much of substance. Says Boro twisted Lommy's words.
#105: Votes Boro, who she says has "looked the fairest but felt the foulest".
Day Two
#159: Says she won't be able to participate much toDay, and if we want to vote for her, go ahead, because she's not in the mood for caring much about it right now. Says a wolvish Caran may have thought Form was the Seer and killed him overNight. Also thinks Caran is acting insecurely. Thinks Sauce is acting differently than usual, but says she'll have to look more closely. Wishes lmp had given a better reason for his vote for her. Says Lommy looks edgier than usual. Wary of TGWBS.
#167: Re-posts for Cailín what she said about TGWBS yesterDay. Analyzes his posts toDay and says she remains suspicious of him. Responds to lmp about his vote for her.

Post #159 comforts me somewhat about her, as she says she doesn't care much if she receives votes. Of course, it would be just as easy for a wolf to say that, but she sounds genuine enough. She's another careful one, though, who I'll be watching.

So, I'm leaning towards Fea right now as my main suspect.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I hide nothing. Okay, that's a lie. But I don't hide anything that it's important for you to know. My presence over the past two days has been minimal and "unhelpful" because what I've been doing in this village is sitting back and watching. I learned in my last incarnation that the minimalist approach has me discovering wolves left and right. I'd like to continue in that vein, for the sake of the village. For anybody that's read up on their lorebooks, I identified an evil wizard and at least three werewolves in one village alone with this way of working.

While I'm not "contributing", I am learning. Watching. Seeing who accuses whom, observing actions and reactions. I'm loathe to mention any names, so I keep suspicions to myself and watch. Either you'll understand my intentions or you'll kill me. There's not a lot I can do about it either way. Until then, I'm still not going to start posting a la Spam because 1) you don't trust me and won't take my words for what they are, 2) it will clutter the thread, and 3) it would corrupt my current plan of quietly watching things. Yes. I'm very intentionally playing the role of a quiet villager. Or at least trying to do so. Let me do it in peace and I might be able to help you.

Edit: crossed with several posts

[Caranlondien]

No disrespect but judging Fea against what seems the "sensible" course is probably not helpful. I have never known a careful Fea. She is not a percentage player, especially if she is a wolf, she is a high roller and takes spectacular risks. As a result she tends to veer between breathtaking brilliance and disaster. If I find your assessment of her actions accurate, it would incline me more to think her innocent....
Sorry, I'm not sure if I follow you. If you find my assessment of her actions accurate, you'll be more inclined to think her innocent? My analysis found her to be very careful, and you say you've never known a careful Fea. This tends to make me more suspicious of her. I do, however, see your point that theorizing about what she would do as a wolf is less accurate than actual experience with how she acts as a wolf. My lorebooks say nothing about a wolvish Fea...

EDIT: cross-posted with Fea

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Of this entire village, she with the most experience of a wolvish Fea is Mithalwen. Just thought I'd put that out there.

[The Saucepan Man]

Until then, I'm still not going to start posting a la Spam because 1) you don't trust me and won't take my words for what they are, 2) it will clutter the thread, and 3) it would corrupt my current plan of quietly watching things. Yes. I'm very intentionally playing the role of a quiet villager. Or at least trying to do so. Let me do it in peace and I might be able to help you.Of course, if we all did that, you would have nothing to observe. :rolleyes:

Sorry Fea, but claiming to be sitting back and watching seems to me to be a great ploy for a Wolf to avoid saying anything which she might later regret. It may not be your usual style, as Mith noted, but that only serves to make me even more wary of you. Perhaps you fear that experience will enable us easily to spot classic Fea Wolf-play.

[Mithalwen]

To clarify, if I agree that she is being careful it would be so unlike her play as a wolf that I would be more inclined to think her innocent at least.

My alter ego modded 2 games with Fea as a wolf.... one was a bravura performance of breathtaking audacity which succeeded brilliantly. The other was a bravura perfomance of breathtaking audacity which crashed and burned. I refer you to the chronicles of the events at Midsomer Mawlin....


If she is careful and a wolf I suspect doping :D or that she is being palyed by a ringer.

[The Saucepan Man]

If she is careful and a wolf I suspect doping or that she is being palyed by a ringer.... or breathtakingly audacious in its lack of breathtaking audacity. ;)

[Mithalwen]

Now that is the mental equivalent on a "waffer-thin mint", Sauce, you just want my head to explode trying to sort out the level of bluff..... :p

[Caranlondien]

Of this entire village, she with the most experience of a wolvish Fea is Mithalwen. Just thought I'd put that out there.
Point taken. I do agree with SpM's argument that your behavior would make a great wolf ploy. Mith, you say Fea's last act of breathtaking audacity crashed and burned? So why would she try it again? Especially with you in the game, expecting her to behave that way?

I don't want to vote for spawn, after analyzing her. To give Fea a fair chance, I'll re-consider my previous suspicions... Lommy, morm, and lmp (my suspicion of SpM having died down somewhat). Lommy I tend to classify with spawn as someone I'll be watching but don't really want to vote for toDay. morm I definitely find suspicious, but he won't be back toDay, and I don't want to lynch him while he's gone, for obvious reasons. lmp... well his sudden change from voting for me to voting for spawn was odd. But I don't see it as a wolvish move from him. He's smart and subtle, and looking less and less wolvish as I consider him more closely.

[The Saucepan Man]

On a more serious note, you have executed a quite stunning U-turn on the subject of Fea, Mith. Yesterday, you saw fit to vote for her (in circumstances where she was unlikely to be lynched, I might add), yet today you are defending her rather doughtily. I wonder if it's possible that your vote yesterday might have been a Wolf-on-Wolf vote?

And, as Lommy noted earlier, you do rather fit the profile of one who is "maintaining a presence" without actually saying very much. Quite unusual for you.

Hmm. Much to ponder.

[Caranlondien]

++Feanor

I'll be able to pop back in a bit later, but unless a wolf confesses, I doubt I'll be changing my vote.

[Mithalwen]

I wouln't say a U turn... I was commenting on Carans statement rather than my own observations which I am too easily distracted from. There are a lot of ifs in my posts for it to be a doughty defence. And I said yesterday that I find her hard to read when I am playing. From the privileged position of a moderator, I have observed her wolf play... but obviously it is much easier to know what she is up to if you gave her her role!

Bear in mind Sauce, If I were a wolf you would almost certainly be already dead. No offence and you know it is really a compliment, but you would be my top priority to get out of the way.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Mithalwen, Saucepan, Caran... Aragorn, Boromir, Saruman.

[Thinlómien]

Bear in mind Sauce, If I were a wolf you would almost certainly be already dead. No offence and you know it is really a compliment, but you would be my top priority to get out of the way.Unless you're double-bluffing. Or unless you thought you'd profit more from keeping him alive as he gathered some suspicion yesterDay. Or unless he's your fellow wolf. One can never know. :rolleyes:

1.Frankly, yes. As I see it, you got into a tussle with him and so found yourself arguing against him. 2.Then, when grounds for suspicion of him were aired, you seized on and promulgated them. Those grounds formed the main plank of the argument against him. Hmm... first part = correct. Second part = incorrect. My timing for my vote was only because I had to leave then, if that is what you mean.

edit:xed with Fea

[Nogrod]

I’m beginnig to understand why Morm every now and then rants about people posting too much… I had to read all from the beginning and, well, it was a feat! :)

Let’s start with the starters. I’m still a bit confused about the wolves going for Form. If they intended to create confusion, they have succeeded quite well in that. But why did they value the overall confusion so much as to leave the numerous “strong players” in this village intact? There were a host of people who did not receive any actual suspicion on Day1 and there were so many votes given with no serious intent or with no well argumented points (Day1, yes). So most of us would not have left any obvious “track” anyway – and there probably would have been some confusion anyhow.

Bombariffic came forwards early on with a theory of the “big players” (or something) being comfortable enough to go for Form (who might get more active later on). But just looking at the list of people in this village, I just can’t see any trio formed out from there being able to be “comfortable” to just go for the confusion (or benefits that would actualize only after days).

So is there something else there after all? If on the contrary the wolves were not doing so well on Day1? Could Form’s death be seen as a well thought – and a bit risky – plot of the wolves to turn attention from what actually had been happening on Day1 that was against their interest? So that we would all be using our magnifying glasses to things relating to Form and forget something important as we were confused about the stuff we saw?

Another possibility has been voiced here already. I’m not yet sure of what to say of it but I try. So Form voted for Caran, late, with sham reasons. Then wolf-Caran killed him? Some have noted, that it would be too dangerous (and overjumpy) to go for the kill just after being voted. But what if Caran (&others) were actually thinking Form to be the seer? His late vote for Caran might be interpretated just as a sign from the Seer before the Night. If the Seer has his first dream of the wolf, he surely would like to leave a “note” of it somewhere immediately or very soon. But not in a way that would be immediately be interpreted as a Seers message: those would be read only afterwards. And that’s just too valuable information to die with. So Caran & fellows got nervous and killed him off. And anyways, if they had any reason to believe that Form was the Seer, then the sooner the better? They would have to stand before the village because of the dead Seer oneDay, and later there might be even more damage done to the wolves cause...

There is an innocent feel in Caran, but “my lorebook” tells me, she can be quite innocent looking when being a wolf – a bit more jumpy and active in this game maybe... Surely Caran should be followed.

But I see there are other things going on too...

[Mithalwen]

Unless you're double-bluffing. Or unless you thought you'd profit more from keeping him alive as he gathered some suspicion yesterDay. Or unless he's your fellow wolf. One can never know. :rolleyes:



For most players you would be right, but with sauce the wanting him dead would override tactics...but that is academic because, I am an ordinary villager. I am now only up to page three on my review but, I am still getting bad vibes from Caran and Durelin ...... Spawn pointed the finger at both Boromir and Formendacil. THe fact that they are both dead may suggest an attempt at framing her..... or not....

Yesterday we assumed that Tom was a newcomer trying to make his mark, and therefore I excused his slightly off assessment of Boromir... newcomers are sometimes wolves.... he is pretty high on my list at the moment. Back to the review.

NB I am sorry that i wasn't here earlier ..I had to pay my chariot tax and so couldn't spend lunchtime monitoring events via my work palantir. Non payment of Chariot tax would cost this poor aura consultant more silver pennies than the chariot is worth so ....

[the guy who be short]

Only 4 posts.

#12 - Says nothing.
#86 - Votes for me with no reasoning.
#133 Votes Caran. "Somebody shows moderate suspicion of you and you over react but not in an overt fashion." Does that not make sense to anybody else?
#157 Claims Caran, Thinlo and I are his top suspects. Again, no reason for suspecting me. Accuses Thinlo of twisting words - no examples.

Really, I think this is condemning enough. If he is a wolf, good. If not, he is such an apathetic and unreasonable villager that to kill him would do us all a favour anyway.

++mormegil

[Thinlómien]

For most players you would be right, but with sauce the wanting him dead would override tactics...I wonder why everyone always regards Sauce that scary... I mean, he is scary, but not that scary...

I'm leaving now. My vote stays the same as I suspect morm as much as my other main suspect Cara, and I feel an innocent Cara would be more useful to the village than an innocent morm with his current behaviour.

[Nogrod]

There is interesting discussion around the behaviour of both Fea and Morm. They both are playing differently than they normally play. Fea says she’s doing it intentionally, Morm clings on lmp’s notion of WW-fatigue. Both seem dubious to me. Because:

Fea.
I have personally nothing against changing your playingstyle (some may remember that I actually suggested to the Barrow-Wight a possibility of playing with false identities to do just that safely). I myself for instance have tried to tone down my own gaming little by little – and I think I’m making some proggress (well there have been occasional setbacks but still...). But if one wants to totally turn her game upside-down, one would be wise to inform others about it before the roles are given! In-game that kind of declaration calls for suspicion, and with a reason! (And Caran had a point in #189 too). That kind of under-radar going – if you would get us to believe you long enough would be again a masterpiece of sorts (though a bit un-ethical one, but then this is WW...). So in the end, you actually hadn’t changed your style, but only from the surface: still taking huge risks!

Morm.
I agree with Spm that all this WW-fatigue stuff is nonsense. If you were fatigued with the WW, you wouldn’t be playing. Simple as that. So it might be tactics, not trying to make himself look suspicious for playing similarily as he played earlier for the succesful wolf. But Spm left one important thing out when he considered it too risky for two wolves (lmp & Morm) to adopt the same tactics. Maybe Morm just took his chance when lmp was symphatetically offering him a possible reason for his very different behaviour? Lmp might be an innocent helping the wolf-Morm unintentionally?

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Spawn pointed the finger at both Boromir and Formendacil. THe fact that they are both dead may suggest an attempt at framing her..... or not....
Are you suggesting that I was framing myself up by voting for Boromir? :D

Actually, Mith, I've become a bit wary of you.

#179 - Mith has just arrived and before she has even had a proper look at what's going on, she gives reasons what she is going to do next and why( "Obviously having found Caran suspicious yesterday I will want to look again now that there are so many others also with this view!") and defends herself ("Yes Cailin my vote for Fea was a bit unfair but I know she can cope and might even be insulted if I didn't think her worthy of a first day punt. I gave Caran the benefit of the doubt because I don't think our paths have crossed before.").

#192 - Then there's the "U-turn" point. Mith explained that, but it's still an interesting detail. Also,

"Bear in mind Sauce, If I were a wolf you would almost certainly be already dead. No offence and you know it is really a compliment, but you would be my top priority to get out of the way." ~Mith

The fact that Sauce is still alive doesn't really tell anything about your innocence. The wolves have to consider things such as whom the Ranger will protect and who's the Hunter, so it really isn't as simple as that, and all these 'surely I'd never act that way as a wolf' in general make me uneasy.

There's also the "maintaining presence" argument and I rather agree with that.


TGWBS, that review of morm... he really is strangely quiet. I'd assume that a wolvish morm should know better than not to start acting so differently from what we've used to seeing, but I don't get why he's behaviour has changed so drastically.

Lmp is scarily silent as well, and I'm still not contented with his "case" against me.

I, for one, understand the point of temporary tiredness, but resting two days in a row should remove fatigue pretty well. However, if they stay up all Nights, it's no wonder that they feel sleepy on Days...

[Nogrod]

I'll have to go to my essays now. I'll be back, as I wouldn't like to miss voting for two Days in a row (hopefully Kath doesn't cut the deadline with one hour again :rolleyes:).

The voting so far:
LMP => Caran (Caran-1)
morm => Caran (Caran-2)
LMP ≠> Caran => Spawn (Caran-1, Spawn-1)
Lhuna => Durelin (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1)
Lommy => morm (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, morm-1)
SPM => Feanor (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1)
Tom => morm (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-2)
Caran => Feanor (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-2, morm-2)
tgwbs => Morm (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-2, morm-3)

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

The invitation for quality time with big bro and the need to finish some papers mean that I'm not going to be around for end of day voting.

++CARAN

On a topic that isn't my own vote, I give everybody permission to kill me if it is so desired. I won't hold a grudge.

After all, this could be a bluff (to which degree, I wonder?). You won't know until I'm dead. But I can be very helpful if you give me the benefit of the doubt for a few more days. I hope everybody chooses wisely. Now... I'm going fishing and paper writin'. :cool:

[Nogrod]

Oh, just before I go.

I saw Spawn's last post there and remebered one thing she had said earlier. If Caran is a wolf, they must have assumed that Form made his hint in a stupid (I would say "self-revealing") way by voting the dreamed wolf. I don't know Form as a player (we were in a same game once, but I can't remember anything miraculous from him, died early I gather) so you who know him better should come forwards with your opinions. How people would consider him? Could he, on the other hand be so bold as to try to scare the wolves by so openingly leaving "the message" - after all it would be a message only to the wolves before he dies?

Secondly: concerning Fea and Morm. It would be quite reckless from the wolves to invest in two of them playing with totally changed styles. So probably they both aren't wolves. (But then again: a wolf pair Fea & Morm might be the only pick from our list to do just that! :confused: ) As I still think they both aren't wolves, I would possibly be leaning towards Fea being the more wolvish one. My judgement is somewhat unbalanced right now, I admit, as I myself struggle with loads of RL-work and can somehow relate to Morm's tiredness at the moment.

EDIT: X-posted with Fea

[The Saucepan Man]

I've not got much time, so this will be brief.

I deduce that Caran is a Wolf.

- - FEANOR OF THE PEREDHIL

+ + CARANLONDIEN

Hopefully, I'll have a chance to get back a bit later.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I have to go. I haven't been able to be around as much as I had hoped, so I don't have any firm opinion of Caran or others who have gathered suspicions toDay. I think I'll add

++Mith

in the mix for the reasons I stated in my last post. Good Night.

[Caranlondien]

hopefully Kath doesn't cut the deadline with one hour again
Well she's been using 10:00pm GMT every time so far, so I hope you plan to be back by then :)

Feanor's latest post... I get an impression of earnestness, and I'm not confident of her guilt. But earnestness is what a wolf would be going for, too. I still don't want to vote for morm, so my vote stands.

LMP => Caran (Caran-1)
morm => Caran (Caran-2)
LMP ≠> Caran => Spawn (Caran-1, Spawn-1)
Lhuna => Durelin (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1)
Lommy => morm (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, morm-1)
SPM => Feanor (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1)
Tom => morm (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-2)
Caran => Feanor (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-2, morm-2)
tgwbs => Morm (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-2, morm-3)
Fea => Caran (Caran-2, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-2, morm-3)
SpM ≠> Feanor => Caran (Caran-3, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-2, morm-3)
Spawn => Mith (Caran-3, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1)

Left to vote: Cailín, Nilp, Celuien, Nogrod, Fin, Mith, Durelin

EDIT: Forgot to take away SpM's vote for Fea

[Cailín]

I am back and slowly catching up (while trying to recover from grave academic failure).

I must say, Fea's attitude frustrates me to no end (though that might be me more than her). I may vote for her out of sheer annoyance, but hopefully I can find a more worthy candidate to be on the receiving end of my vote.

[Mithalwen]

OK I have made up my mind more or less but I want toanswer a few things.

Spawn, I said I had been able to get a few glimpses of the board during the day. My comments when I arrived were my feelings based on those glimpses. It seems perfectly rational to me to look carefully when ones hunches seem backed up by others doubts.


Other people, notably Lommy, have been saying I am insubstantial. I disagree. Yes I haven't had so much time but I deny frothyness. May not be earth shattering insight but to be honest, I haven't seen much of great substance. A few notable absences yes .. I know RL life intrudes, and had I known what this week would throw up I would have reconsidered playing. But still ....

Anyway, I have done a sort of spidergraph. Mainly instincts but the analytical side of my mind is tired so I will let the intuitive side have a crack. I have ended up with a spectrum, or a Swingometer.

At the seeming innocent end I have :

Nogrod
Cailin
Sauce I still feel is an innocent but this should never be assumed.
Spawn - find it unlikely that as a wolf she would have permitted the death of someone who had "marked her card". However there is an possibility that our changeling decided the kill last night. I don't know whether Form is a more likely choice for a permanent or temporary wolf. All I can think is that he was chosen because he is a formidable player but one who on yesterday's lacklustre performance was a, unlikely to give many leads and b, was unlikely to be protected.
Celuien seems sensible likely innocent could be a calm wolf dunno..
LMP has moved up towards the innocent end since yesterday because what he has written today makes sense.
TGWBS .... I have moved him from unclassified towards seeming innocence... can't qute remember why though.
Fin - seemed innocent yesterday, hasn't registered anything on my radar to change my mind.

In the Just don't know either becasue of bafflement or not enough presence group I have Lhuna, Fea, morm. Fea would be the most suspicious still of this group. I genuinely don't know. Sauce finds my indecison interesting but he has been uncertain about Fea himself so ...

The finding more suspicious group

Tom
Lommy possibly the other way around

Very suspicious

Durelin
Caran

Durelin's posts seemed so odd. All the talk of team work .. well the villagers want to survive but the only team here are the furry three. I know it isn't a big thing but it has stuck.

Caran so nearly got my vote yesterday and today she seems to be trying too hard to be helpful...

I really would not be suprised if they were both wolves but one vote only.. will just check what has been going on sinceI started this post before I vote.

[Cailín]

First, apologies for my lack of activity toDay. This post will not make it much better.

The three primary lynch candidates seem right now:

Mormegil

I do believe he might be an Ordo suffering from Werewolf weariness. I also find his contributions decidedly strange. I'm not too interested in lynching him toDay, however, simply because I cannot accept WolfMormegil would sink this low. :p

Feanor

Though I share the frustration and have no idea what she's trying to achieve, I do not find her wolvish. Rather, she will turn out to be another bored Ordo trying to be controversional. I don't know. No clear picture here.

Caranlondien

I can't see the case against her. That Wolf Caran suspected Formendacil to be the Seer... no. That's rather ridiculous. Nogrod, I think you asked, Formendacil made the most excellent Seer I have ever seen in action in Anguirel's game. Since he was not the Seer this time, this is academic, but Form would never have behaved thusly had he had a dream of Caranlondien.

On the other hand, it may very well be that Caran is a wolf... and that because she drew too much suspicion yesterDay, her wolf comrades are using her as a sacrifice to make them look innocent, in which case the Form kill is perfectly sensible. However, that's just a private theory.

Mith seems like an Ordo.

Spawn is evil. She always is in my eyes.

I have to choose now and I'm rather tired. So go on:

++Caranlondien

To clear up this confusion. I know it is unethical to vote for someone you are not actually suspicious of, but I think the village needs to know her identity. I don't think either Morm or Fea is particularly guilty either. Rather, considering toDay's proceedings, I think it's littlemanpoet and Saucepan Man whom I shall be looking closely at henceforth.

[Caranlondien]

Caran so nearly got my vote yesterday and today she seems to be trying too hard to be helpful...
I always try to be helpful. Your first impression on me was on a day when RL was making it difficult to read other people's posts or make posts myself. It seems like either people are ignoring my RL issues or they don't believe me... you can ask Aiwendil, I was visiting him in another village...

[Caranlondien]

LMP => Caran (Caran-1)
morm => Caran (Caran-2)
LMP ≠> Caran => Spawn (Caran-1, Spawn-1)
Lhuna => Durelin (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1)
Lommy => morm (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, morm-1)
SPM => Feanor (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1)
Tom => morm (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-2)
Caran => Feanor (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-2, morm-2)
tgwbs => Morm (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-2, morm-3)
Fea => Caran (Caran-2, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-2, morm-3)
SpM ≠> Feanor => Caran (Caran-3, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-2, morm-3)
Spawn => Mith (Caran-3, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1)
Cailín => Caran (Caran-4, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1)

Left to vote: Nilp, Celuien, Nogrod, Fin, Mith, Durelin

[Mithalwen]

Maybe but the bells started ringing and they haven't stopped. If I am wrong - well sorry, I know only to well that RL can get in the way but I took the easy option with my vote for Fea yesterday. We have to know .... and I really don't understand why you went after Sauce yesterday.

++ Caranlondien

[littlemanpoet]

LMP is too a lot more nonsense than usually. I'm gradually getting more worried of him.Care to explain what you mean? This is awfully vague, which is in its turn rather suspicious, although, Lommy, I suppose you tend to be vague, so maybe this is just you theorizing out loud. Either way, I'd appreciate it if you would do me the courtesy of explaining what "nonsense" you're talking about? Thanks.

I cannot resist rabbiting on at length whenever I come to the village square. I generally find so much to talk about and comment on that I am almost compelled to pipe up. And morm and Elempi are usually the same. I don’t buy this werewolf fatigue thing and I am beginning to wonder if it is a tactic. Then again, they would be foolish Wolves indeed if they were both to use the same excuse for their quietitude.This is precisely the kind of bold in-your-face wolvish statement I've been waiting for from you, SPM. The lorebooks show that such a disregard for your fellow innocent villagers' state of mind was precisely the key that showed your ancestor's wolvishness. Nobody at that time saw it for what it was until too late. I am making sure nobody misses it this time. Thank you for slipping up in this fashion. I challenge you to vindicate yourself. But you are slippery, sir. Perhaps the only sufficient vindication may be your lynching or the seer declaring you innocent, since your very efforts to clear yourself will most likely be so full of loyerly misdirection and logic chopping that you persuade people against their better judgment that you are not the werewolf I strongly suspect you to be.

You think so? I thought that it was a rather reasonable response. It is understandable for someone to expect some reasoning when a vote is cast for them.Yes, I thought so. I gave reasons. Since you, my dear sir, are exploding with vim and vigor, feel free to do the research.

[Morm] took the trouble to come in and catch up reading, but then listed 3 votes without saying why.You obviously don't know how Morm plays this game. This is his typical means of checking out the three named. He was looking for reactions. It doesn't mean he's guilty. Nor innocent. I suppose this looks like me defending Morm. Heck, I like the guy. He did want to give me a hug, after all. :p (here's bear-hug for ya morm) But facts are facts, and it's a shame for someone to waste a lynch vote on not knowing what's going on.

I'm very intentionally playing the role of a quiet villager. Or at least trying to do so. Let me do it in peace and I might be able to help you.This seems for real to me.

SPM's aggressive response to the same quote I just posted, is noted. An aggressive SPM is a typical SPM. An aggressive, wolvish SPM is the kind who will pick a few likely villagers who he is rather sure he can turn into scapegoats, and ride them for all they're worth, making sure not to allow them to get lynched and proven innocent until it's well along in the game and they have served their purpose. So watch whom he attacks and rides mercilessly. And I would suggest that if you are really unwise enough to keep him around, then please do lynch his victims and once you see that they are innocent, you'll have a stronger indication that SPM is a werewolf.

That said:

-- DANCING SPAWN OF UNGOLIANT

++ THE SAUCEPAN MAN

I'll post this up in hopes that it might be helpful to others before it's too late.

[Mithalwen]

Ooh well that makes sense actually ... he did me up like a kipper in another incarnation ...and maybe that is what is happening now.......

[Celuien]

An interesting case against SPM, Elempi. An ancestor of mine was lynched at the hands of a wolvish ancestor of his following the aggressive strategy you suggest. I only hope I don't fall victim to it again. But that said, I'm uncomfortable voting for him today. Hopefully, he'll remain too prominent and influential to go without a Seer dream. He may already have been dreamt about.

I would also like to point out that my lorebook shows that the former Wolfman Sauce turned in his comrades in crime without hesitation to become the lone survivor of his team. And so even if he is a wolf, that doesn't mean that all of his suspects would be innocent. He might even play a major role in their demise as a wolf to gain trust.

I'm not ignoring the possibiliy of his guilt, though he seems less likely than some others here.

And so:

++CARANLONDIEN

My top suspect for the day.

I'm returning to my cottage from the ketchup fields now. I'll try to make it back here before the deadline in case developments require a response from me, but it's a long trip, filled with slow moving sheep that block the path, so I may not be back before events close toDAY.

[Mithalwen]

OK will take a flyer since if you are right I seem to be a designated potential victim and it will mix things up a bit.


This strategy makes you so vulnerable if it backfires that I will chance trusting you:

--Caranlondien

++ Saucepan Man

Well he did say he wanted to be suspected :rolleyes:

[Durelin]

I do hate explaining myself, so I'll just say one thing: I can get a little carried away with my 'occupation,' I suppose.

But anyway...

Sadly, I am unable to do much more other than gather things up quickly and vote.

I'll just run through real quick as best as I can those that are getting lot of attention right now...or actually, those who have votes right now.

Fea hasn't really sparked my interest, when it comes to being wolfish, at all...yet. Perhaps it is because she comes closest to matching my style, at least as it seems to me. So I think currently that suspicions about her are just as off track as those that are directed towards myself. Besides, she would be a very foolish wolf if she participated in lynching Caran, who already voted for her. And I don't see her as a foolish wolf. Unless of course we want to get into my crazy reverse psychology again. *cue groans and rotten tomatoes* No? Okay then.

morm really hasn't been noticable at all. I practically forgot he lived in this village! I don't think that's enough to say he's a wolf, though. I really don't know about him, and so I don't feel comfortable voting for him just yet.

Caran seems to be getting upset, which is I suppose understandable, but not a wise move. Most innocent villagers are glad to die for the villages cause, or mention how they'll be sitting back and laughing in the afterlife. Okay, so not all... But I doubt it would be wise for a wolf to get upset over the possibility of their death, especially when there are still a number of votes to be cast. So I don't know if I'm comfortable with voting for her yet either.

Spawn contributes quite a bit, though I wouldn't call her bold. She's worth looking at, as everyone is. But that's the problem. She doesn't stand out to me as a wolfish candidate. And really, she hasn't gotten as much attention as the others.

Mith is an interesting suspect, too. She is not so much into the lengthy summaries as Spawn is, but she still manages to contribute. And so she tends to stand out. But all I know about her right now is this: if SPM happens to be killed tonight, then Mith seems much less guilty (unless of course, we go with the reverse psychology idea or 'double bluff'), all because of this quote:

Bear in mind Sauce, If I were a wolf you would almost certainly be already dead. No offence and you know it is really a compliment, but you would be my top priority to get out of the way.

Durelin...definitely a wolf.

Anyway (again)...

It's interesting. In many cases, people are more likely to gain suspicion when they make brief posts. I suppose that might be because people think they are trying to stay under the radar, or it could be that not all of us have the time and energy to pick through the longer ones, and so just relent to probable innocence... :D

I'm feeling uncomfortable, though. There are some people that just have not gotten any real attention whatsoever. I know it is only Day Two, and there must be some kind of focus in order to get anywhere, but it still leaves me feel like our backs aren't covered. Okay, so they really aren't... But that leaves me in a predicament. In some ways, it's good to wait till near the end of the Day to vote, in other ways it's not. You get to see some interesting reactions to the voting, and your vote becomes important. But that's where the problem lies. It's important. And you've got all these suspects lined up...and you feel like you should go for someone who's nowhere near the noose. But does it do any good to vote for someone when you know they're not going to get lynched? That's like pulling a Pontius Pilate, at least Bible style Pilate.

Okay, here we go...back to the beginning with SPM.

He's been acting rather like SPM, seeming to get irritated with people as he normally does, and ranting quite a lot. That's normal for him. But he's a bit more aggressive than I've experienced him being...though subtlely. I may be waaaayyy off, but he is not sticking to his votes or his statements. This might be proof of his innocence, but it might not be. He doesn't even seem to be headed in a certain direction, as far as I can tell, and there is nothing wrong with that, except that it's Saucie. I feel compelled to 'wait and see,' and yet I must vote. I'd like to see if I get killed tonight...then I think everyone should keep a closer eye on Saucie, as I would be the second person he defended and then 'offed.' I do think he's a lote smarter than that, though. But I'm not sure if that necessarily has anything to do with it. A wolf victory can come in many forms.

Okay, I've got to get going.

++Saucepan Man

EDIT: Cross-posted with Caran (times two), Mith (times three), lmp, and Celuien. It seems I look like I've joined a bandwagon again. *sigh* Ya can't win. ;)

[Caranlondien]

Stopping back in... and not much has changed. Where are you people? :rolleyes:

lmp, you make some excellent points about SpM. My introduction to Werewolf was by reading a game my brother was in, in which SpM fooled everyone. Thinking about it, I suppose that is why I suspected him so much yesterDay. I read that entire game knowing he was a wolf (because Aiwendil informed me), and so I suppose to me his "clueless villager" persona looks inherently wolvish.

EDIT: cross-posted with Celuien and Mithalwen

[littlemanpoet]

This strategy makes you so vulnerable if it backfires that I will chance trusting youI hope for both our sakes your trust is not in vain.

[Caranlondien]

Right now my vote for Fea is a essentially a throw-away vote, anyway. I really didn't want to vote for morm when he's been away for so long, but SpM I just don't trust. LMP's points have only cemented my suspicions

--Feanor
++The Saucepan Man

LMP => Caran (Caran-1)
morm => Caran (Caran-2)
LMP ≠> Caran => Spawn (Caran-1, Spawn-1)
Lhuna => Durelin (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1)
Lommy => morm (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, morm-1)
SPM => Feanor (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1)
Tom => morm (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-2)
Caran => Feanor (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-2, morm-2)
tgwbs => Morm (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-2, morm-3)
Fea => Caran (Caran-2, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-2, morm-3)
SpM ≠> Feanor => Caran (Caran-3, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-2, morm-3)
Spawn => Mith (Caran-3, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1)
Cailín => Caran (Caran-4, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1)
Mithalwen => Caran (Caran-5, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1)
lmp ≠> Spawn => SpM (Caran-5, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1, SpM-1)
Celuien => Caran (Caran-6, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1, SpM-1)
Mithalwen ≠> Caran => SpM (Caran-5, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1, SpM-2)
Durelin => SpM (Caran-5, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1, SpM-3)
Caran ≠> Feanor => SpM (Caran-5, Durelin-1, morm-3, Mith-1, SpM-4)

Left to vote: Nilp, Nogrod, Fin

[the guy who be short]

This is interesting. The three leaders are now morm, SpM and Caran.I'd be glad to kill off SpM just because he's infathomable. But I don't know how I feel towards Caran. She admits she is easily manipulated - but would the wolves risk killing Form if she were amongst them? I doubt it.

So I shall wait and see. If I have time, I will analyse Caran as I originally meant to. If not, my vote will stay with morm or change to SpM.

[Findëasëa]

Wow, two bandwagons in a row. I feel that the wolves are behind the creation of at least one of them. I am sticking with my belief that Caran is innocent. I will vote for either SPM or Mith in a bit, I just got back and I want to review a bit more first.

[Nogrod]

Oh my!

Just look through ten essays and what has happened meanwhile...

Thanks Cailín for your information about Form. If he indeed is a renowned player, I would think that in a bunch of three werecreatures there would be at least one who knows that. So they wouldn't have thought him as the clumsy seer (even how jumpy Caran might have been at Night). So surely that doesn't clear Caran totally as there still is the chance of a set-up. But my personal suspicions over her seem to fall somewhat, as the best I had on her was just the wolves general jumpiness.

Mith gave me another wake up call. Why hasn't anyone thought of that before? If the last night's killer was the changeling indeed? That would make killing of him more understandable. A loner might not know his stature (I didn't, and I don't believe I'm the only one here) and could have taken his first Day peevishness as a sign of an unsufficient and unhelpful villager. If this is so, it's good news indeed. For that would mean that the Changeling is on our side, ducking Kath's ordeals nicely as s/he managed to pick a wolf on the first Night s/he made a pick (Kath could not enforce any vote from her/him yet - it would have been different, if s/he had f.ex. picked a Seer earlier, then s/he would probably had to go for her/him)!

EDIT: X-posted from the Ancient Rome onwards...

[The Saucepan Man]

All because I didn't buy your werewolf weariness, eh, Elempi? Touchy, touchy! :rolleyes:

Still, thanks for garnering me a few votes. Just as long as they don't stack up much more.

Durelin, if I seem to lack direction, it is because I am probing and prodding. I am not entirely convinced that Fea is as pure as she makes out. But I didn't like the way that Caran jumped on my vote for her. That, added to the other things about Caran that have been aired today, makes her look very Wolfish in my eyes.

I am rather alarmed over Mith's uncharacteristic flip-floppiness, but that is a matter that I shall have to look into tomorrow if I am still here.

I am leaving now and won't be back before the deadline, so if any Wolves who have not yet voted for me want to take the opportunity to try to get me lynched, please feel free to do so. It won't do you any favours though. :p :D

Edit: Cross-posted with Caran, among others. What a surprise! She has changed her vote yet again. How did I guess she might do that ...?

[Nogrod]

In some ways, it's good to wait till near the end of the Day to vote, in other ways it's not. You get to see some interesting reactions to the voting, and your vote becomes important. But that's where the problem lies. It's important. And you've got all these suspects lined up...and you feel like you should go for someone who's nowhere near the noose. But does it do any good to vote for someone when you know they're not going to get lynched? That's like pulling a Pontius Pilate, at least Bible style Pilate.

How true, Durelin! :confused:

[Caranlondien]

I am not entirely convinced that Fea is as pure as she makes out. But I didn't like the way that Caran jumped on my vote for her.
Honestly, I wrote that analysis of Fea before you voted for her. I admit I tend to be rather swayed by people's arguments, but my suspicion of Fea was my own.

[Findëasëa]

A lot of people seem to be suspicious to me today, but I cant seem to find a particular person who sticks out the most to me. Unfortunately, I have to place my vote now. I mentioned earlier that the people who are most suspicious to me at this point are those who have offered more commentary than theorizing. For this reason I feel quite suspicious of a few people, of these I will vote for Mith, after looking over her actions for the past two days she seems highly suspicious. She does say that she is very busy in the RL, which may explain some of her behavior that I find suspicious. I was not able to finish my analysis of her, but what I have found seems incriminating enough to warrant a vote in my opinion. Most of her comments on the first day were either very abstract or carefully worded so as to not incriminate. Her recent comment, which assures the village that she could not possibly be a wolf, as she would have killed SPM seemed like a very bizarre defense. This behavior seems very wolf like to me.
++Mith

[the guy who be short]

Fin... that's pathetic. I'm bringing up that throwaway vote tomorrow.

I'm inclined to vote SpM, but I don't know what happens if I create a tie. Let me check... Tum te tum.

[Nogrod]

Twenty minutes, or so...

Caran may be jumping a bit, and as she says:
I admit I tend to be rather swayed by people's arguments,but she feels like innocent. My "theory" against her was based on the overall wolf-jumpiness anyhow, as I said earlier.

Spm I just couldn't vote yet. He was on the good cause at least on Day1 so strongly, that dfor a wolf-bluff that would have been quite heavy even for him... (trying to twist the Changeling to side with the village = village win - well not surely, but highly enhanced chances)

I feel sympathy for Morm if this all is RL-bussiness, but then again, he hasn't even tried to be helpful on his short posts (and still he reads the thread!). He's the one I could go now...

[Caranlondien]

Remind me never to purposefully try to garner some suspicion on Day One. Ever again.
I know it is unethical to vote for someone you are not actually suspicious of, but I think the village needs to know her identity. I don't think either Morm or Fea is particularly guilty either.
I agree - the village needs to know my identity. I am your horribly failing Hunter.

I know no more than any of you ordinary villagers, so I’d be quite glad for some input on what to do now that I’ve been forced into the open.

[Nogrod]

As Find ran away from accountability, I will try to lynch the one I think is the least innocent or helpful.

++ Morm

EDIT: X-posted with Caran

[the guy who be short]

--MORM

++SpM

Hopefully you can be saved. Anyway, you will be allowed to live tonight as the Ranger will protect you, so really, you're safe until tomorrow. Be helpful until then - your opinion will be the only objective one that we can all trust.

Unless you're bluffing, but I don't want to think about that.

[mormegil]

Well the conference is over and I've only done a minimal perusal of posts and I see differing opinions on my WW Weariness. Let's just say that RL issues that cropped up along with a rather long and stressful last game have caused this. I hope somebody with great leech craft can heal me soon and I predict by tomorrow I may be in normal form but we shall see. I cannot provide any detail analysis of the day because I haven't read much of anything. I will do better.

[the guy who be short]

Morm - Caran is the hunter. Change your vote to SpM to save her, unless you don't believe her.

Nogrod - You can't get morm now. You too should change your vote.

[Caranlondien]

LMP => Caran (Caran-1)
morm => Caran (Caran-2)
LMP ≠> Caran => Spawn (Caran-1, Spawn-1)
Lhuna => Durelin (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1)
Lommy => morm (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, morm-1)
SPM => Feanor (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1)
Tom => morm (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-2)
Caran => Feanor (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-2, morm-2)
tgwbs => Morm (Caran-1, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-2, morm-3)
Fea => Caran (Caran-2, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-2, morm-3)
SpM ≠> Feanor => Caran (Caran-3, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-2, morm-3)
Spawn => Mith (Caran-3, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1)
Cailín => Caran (Caran-4, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1)
Mithalwen => Caran (Caran-5, Spawn-1, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1)
lmp ≠> Spawn => SpM (Caran-5, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1, SpM-1)
Celuien => Caran (Caran-6, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1, SpM-1)
Mithalwen ≠> Caran => SpM (Caran-5, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1, SpM-2)
Durelin => SpM (Caran-5, Durelin-1, Feanor-1, morm-3, Mith-1, SpM-3)
Caran ≠> Feanor => SpM (Caran-5, Durelin-1, morm-3, Mith-1, SpM-4)
Fin => Mith (Caran-5, Durelin-1, morm-3, Mith-2, SpM-4)
Nogrod => morm (Caran-5, Durelin-1, morm-4, Mith-2, SpM-4)
tgwbs ≠> morm => SpM (Caran-5, Durelin-1, morm-3, Mith-2, SpM-5)

Thank you, Guy. This has been even more nerve-wracking then when I was an orc :rolleyes:

I feel especially bad if we've been forced into lynching an innocent SpM because we don't have time to properly analyze him... I'm willing to change my vote if people can make convincing arguments for others.

[Nogrod]

Nogrod - You can't get morm now. You too should change your vote.
Iwas not trying to get Morm... He has been the least helpful of the three... I wouldn't like to vote against my consciousness. On the basis of Day1 I believe Spm is innocent. If he is not, call me a fool then...

[Nogrod]

This is mad!

Either we kill the hunter or the one I have really trusted (see Day1 tomorrow - I have no time to argue for it now)!

[Caranlondien]

I distrust morm as well, so if we have enough votes... oy vey! The pressure!

[mormegil]

Morm - Caran is the hunter. Change your vote to SpM to save her, unless you don't believe her.

Nogrod - You can't get morm now. You too should change your vote.

I noticed people wanted to know why I am suspicious of TGWBS...it's comments like these.

[Nogrod]

I distrust morm as well, so if we have enough votes... oy vey! The pressure!

One more needed...

[the guy who be short]

Is iit better to lose an innocent SpM or a Hunter?

[Nogrod]

Morm: either you are valiant man, or very tricksy indeed. I hope you are the first one...

[the guy who be short]

I too would change back to morm - but that would still only leave us with 5. The rules state that Caran would still die, as she got 5 votes first.

So the only hope appears to be either morm or Nogrod voting for SpM. Doing so will give the innocents a secure base to rally around tomorrow.
Morm, what exactly is threatening about anything I've said? :rolleyes:

[Nogrod]

Caran is here...

[Caranlondien]

Nogrod and morm, please vote for SpM.

We don't know anything definite about him. I am the hunter.

[Cailín]

*sigh* hopeless beings.

--Caranlondien

++Saucepan Man

[Nogrod]

Caran, vote for Morm

[Caranlondien]

Nogrod, morm has 3 votes right now. Add mine and Guys and we still only have 5. I still die.

[the guy who be short]

Caran has already voted for SpM. Her vote is irrelevant. The choice lies with you two men.

[the guy who be short]

Hooray for Cailin.