Tapestry of Dreams, Part 2 Discussion

[Nurumaiel]

At long last, I've filled my save. I've been away so long... it feels a little rusty and weak, but I hope it will suffice.

[littlemanpoet]

Nuru, it is good to have you back writing again. That was moving! Rather than rusty and weak, I would say it was (emotionally) raw and strong. Good stuff. :)

[Celuien]

I'm terribly sorry that I haven't had time to write. Things have picked up yet again - I've already worked 40 hours this week and it's only Wednesday.

Unfortunately, this means that I won't be available to write for at least the next four weeks. On top of work, I have to find time for the important people in my offline life, which leaves no time to come here when I'm working 70+ hour weeks. And so, with apologies to everyone, I will have to withdraw from the story.

Best wishes to everyone, and I hope this doesn't cause too many problems.

[Imladris]

I'm sorry to hear that Celuien.

I hope that things settle down for you. :)

Take care.

[littlemanpoet]

Because Celuien has given fair warning earlier than her latest post, I think plans are in place to negotiate her character's departure from the rpg. We will still miss her participation.

[mark12_30]

Celuien: we will miss you; but better we should miss you than your family miss you! It is good to see that your priorities are firm; God bless you for that.

Farewell wherever you fare, and may your eyrie receive you at your journey's end.

[littlemanpoet]

I've had a too busy week, and tomorrow morning I fly to California. I may have computer time while there, I'll have to see. I'll try to post something here today.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Just chiming in to let you know I'm alive and keeping up with the story.

We'll miss you, Celuien, but better us to miss you than your offline people.

[mark12_30]

Where to with Mellonin? SHould we rest a few days, or should she climb onto Roeryn and struggle onward? And who is going with her? Ravion & Liornung? Somebody needs to save/ rescue/ guide the stubborn, but first reckless and then helpless, girl. Nor is Avarien much of a planner. THey both need somebody with some sense. I think even the orse has more.

Mellondu may be sniffing Nimrodel's presence or he may be THaronwe's dupe--- or, perhaps, both. I think I like both best. Amroth is restless, partly because Mellondu can't figure out what to do with him, and Amroth senses a chink in the wall, and Amroth is wondering how on earth Mellondu has found something of Nimrodel's essense drifiting on the wind somewhere when he, with all his searching, could not. Maybe that's why fate led him to this particular boy. Who knows.

Anyway what's next? SHall we wake Ravion's group? WHere shall they go?

[mark12_30]

ANd precisely what characters have we got moving forward? Somebody check me & holler if I missed someone:
Bergil
Indil
Raefindan
Aeron
Erebemlin
Mellondu / Amroth

Mellonin/ Avarien
Liornung
Ravion
Rudh
Good old Jorje
Roheryn

eeeeeeewTharonwe

Nimrodel
MIthrellas
Gwyllion

[Nurumaiel]

Helen, I'd have no objections to sending Liornung along with Mellonin. As a matter of fact, it would be nice to put him into an active role so I have something to keep me occupied. I don't want to find myself disappearing again!

lmp, when were you planning to send Leafa and Ædegard on their way back home? Liornung will need to say his proper farewells, and make sure Bella goes with them.

And, by the way, whether you're flying out this way for business or for pleasure, I hope you enjoy your stay! Whereabouts are you going to be?

[littlemanpoet]

lmp, when were you planning to send Leafa and Ædegard on their way back home? Liornung will need to say his proper farewells, and make sure Bella goes with them.:eek: You're leaving that totally up to me? How do you want to do it? I didn't feel like it was quite time for that to happen.

And, by the way, whether you're flying out this way for business or for pleasure, I hope you enjoy your stay! Whereabouts are you going to be?My sister lives in San Jose and promises lots of site seeing to Yosemite, San Francisco, maybe Carmel, and a few other places. Heck I just want to see her. The touring is an extra. :)

[mark12_30]

Helen, I'd have no objections to sending Liornung along with Mellonin. As a matter of fact, it would be nice to put him into an active role so I have something to keep me occupied. I don't want to find myself disappearing again!

Good! THis should be interesting: they are both introspective. And so is Ravion. We'll have to work hard at keeping the action moving-- too easy for them all to stop and brood! I'm glad Liorning is cheerful. I'm also quite glad Ravion and Mellonin/Avarien will have at least one chaperone. :eek:

[Nurumaiel]

You're leaving that totally up to me? How do you want to do it?Er... um... I don't know. :p

I'm not in a hurry to get them out of the way, and since you feel that it's not the right time yet, why don't we just let them stick around for now and see what happens?

Have a grand time with your sister, and in your touring. San Francisco and Carmel are gorgeous, and Yosemite is, well, breathtaking. If we weren't so crazily busy I'd plot to stumble across you at one of those spots.

[littlemanpoet]

What needs to happen next? What is Roheryn waiting for? What do you want to happen next, Helen?

[Imladris]

Well, folks.

I shall go straight to the point. I have decided to withdraw from the RP. Aeron is not so important and I believe Gwyllion has played her part. Please feel free to do what you will with them.

[mark12_30]

Ack??? Why? I was trying to work them both in. What did I miss?

Roheryn was waiting for Avarien to call him, or for something to happen in the cottage. Or for Rugh to notice him. Or something.

[littlemanpoet]

The following is from a recent planning exchange between Helen and me, and we decided it's worth posting here for other active writers, especially Fea since it impacts her character plenty.

The fact of Indil/Angela complicates things for Raefindan/Imrazor rather mightily. That Fea chose that particular character was a rather powerful plot twist in its own right. Let me explain.

My theory on Roy Edwards, in terms of my own story, is that his journey into holiness results in his final disappearance from Ælde as he shifts into Eden/Paradise; at the moment of this shift, he detours into Middle Earth for this adventure of the Tapestry of Dreams. And so does Angela (which technically doesn't make sense because Indil is 7 years old and Angela has only been dead for 5 years, but we don't need to worry about that). But Roy has this amazing history he hadn't been aware of (which can remain localized to this rpg and need not enter my own story) such that he was Imrazor, and therefore partly Eldar, about to be reunited with Mithrellas! She will recognize him right off, and he will finally "get it", but Angela/Indil is right there too.

Roy will of course ask, "why?" And he will be tugged in two different directions, to what end I can't foresee yet.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Ack.

My brain is melting. I should most probably wait for morning to think about this for so many reasons...

I knew that pulling your Angela into my Indil would offer plot complications for Raefindan/Imrazor, though I probably should have taken more into account your original plan for your original story. I also should admit that it's been a rather long while since I've perused your xanga account and read the work you've posted, so a lot of my ideas are pure whim with forgetfulness and lagging to account for.

I'm not sure... did I ever specify Indil's age? I know it was never solid in my mind, so I'm quite fine with negotiating it for continuity, however that might work.

Another thing, I never really meant Indil to be a main character. It just happened, the same way it tends to happen when I start writing with others. I probably should have foreseen. Since she now is, what happens to her becomes rather critical.

As a descendant of Mithrellas, she has every right to her dreams of the woman, and of Imrazor. As a human who has experienced trauma, I can explain away her nightmares and hallucinations, and the wall in her mind.

Her tie to Angela is what concerns me right now. Everything else I can shrug off and deal with, but Angela was originally yours, Elempi, and I don't want to do anything that messes with what you've got going on.

She will recognize him right off, and he will finally "get it", but Angela/Indil is right there too.

Roy will of course ask, "why?" And he will be tugged in two different directions, to what end I can't foresee yet.

Would it simplify matters for we writers and add to our story (I tend to strive for both at once, if you follow) for Indil/internally-located-others to die before this Imrazor/Mithrellas reunion takes place? If so, how. If not, what do we do with the little girl.

I'll think about it more tomorrow...

Until then, sleep is so important to me...

[littlemanpoet]

Don't worry about any harmonies with my story, Fea. I consider the two things to be quite divorced, even though I can still play with the fiction that the characters are the same.

And don't let's kill of Indil! :eek: All I'm doing is thinking out loud about what this rpg promises for interesting plot twist. I'm looking forward to it. :) I love having characters in very complicated emotional/relational spots; it helps define them. And it's a heck of a lot of fun to figure out how to write the story into a resolution of such knots. So worry not, and let's have at it.

If you want to have Indil be 5 instead of 7, that's cool.

So far your ideas of pure whim have worked out great. I have interpreted the "opaque" part of Indil's mind to be Angela herself.

And I like it that Indil has turned into a main character.

If you write anything Angela-wise that really doesn't work, I'll let you know. That's a promise. I appreciate your sensitivity. But I'm not worried. :)

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

If you write anything Angela-wise that really doesn't work, I'll let you know. That's a promise. I appreciate your sensitivity. But I'm not worried. :)

Awesome.

[mark12_30]

Yes, awesome. I like whta is hapening here; lmp, thanks for the encouragement on all sides.

TO explain my recent Mellondu post: Having 'hosted' Amroth for so long, and having watched Amroth's remembrances of Nimrodel, and being a youthful dreamish boy-- Mellondu is trespassing; he has fallen for Nimrodel. Twas to be expected but is a heinous trespass nonetheless.. How and whether he survives al this remains to be seen.

Just another twist/ braid/tapestry thing.

Which is, as lmp points out, what makes this game such a fun one. We keep talking about Unraveeling; but really, the point is to "ravel"; all these weavings are what makes this work.

TIme for some more dreams, somewhere.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

TIme for some more dreams, somewhere.

:cool:

[mark12_30]

Fea, that rocked.

Brrr.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Brrr.

He's such a skeevy creep. No offense, Elempi. ;)

I mean, you don't get much more "Hello, I'm the bad guy" than scaring little children. I should introduce a dog for him to kick in the next scene. :p

[littlemanpoet]

Yikes, Fea! He's nastier than I thought. Kreepy! :p

Now I'm just wondering, did I see a new whim just crop up, a new possibility, that Mithrellas = Angela = Indil/Eledhwen?

Wow!

That is, they are somehow all the same entity? That's making my brain chugachug and the gears aren't quite grasping the sprockets, if you take my meaning. :p

Can't post now, will have to wait until later tonight or next day or so.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Now I'm just wondering, did I see a new whim just crop up, a new possibility, that Mithrellas = Angela = Indil/Eledhwen?

It's certainly a possibility that's been running through my mind for awhile, but it's by no means finite. Just an idea, you see, that can grow or shrink as needed or desired. Because I like the possibilities that evolve with so many strong personalities floating around ME.

And I find it wonderful and fascinating that I got the idea of the three of them being tied to each other from you, yet you seem not to have had it at all until I wrote it.

[littlemanpoet]

I'm having some difficulty trying to figure out what to write next. I have four active characters, any one of whom could be written about, but which one deserves the most attention? Which one moves the plot forward the most? Certainly not Ædegard. Jorje? Waiting mode for those two, really. I'm waiting for Ravion and Mellonin to do something, or for Liornung to say something.

As for Tharonwe, it feels like a natural to have him mull this whole thing over again, and then do some more evil osanwe.

Raefindan/Roy? Maybe it's time to dream. Is it night time for that group? Feeling a little at loose ends after reading two dreams, I guess.....

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

The trouble it seems easiest to fall into is having Indil and Tharonwe be inactive. Not that they're not doing anything, just that they're not moving as they do it. Maybe I spend too much time with comic book writers, but it's been ingrained into me that a stationary character had better be stationary for an extremely good reason. My biggest complaint about Kafka's Metamorphosis is that it took what's-his-name like eight pages to get out of bed. So one question is "Where do we put Tharonwe and Indil next?" in terms of moving the plot and keeping them active. Their motion should be reflective of both state of mind and state of story. If we keep them in one place too long, we risk stagnation, which is an interesting effect to have with Senior Swamp-Elf, if we want to play with that, but do we?

So one response is that you and/or I can shift Tharonwe and Indil elsewhere, though I'm not sure where.

A related note is that it seems to me as though it will create more tension (insert painting-teacher voice) if we have the pursuers get substantially closer before they move on again. The proximity adds interest and momentum. It seems to me as though simply having Tharonwe and Indil continuously out of reach is less interesting for a reader (and a writer) than having them almost found and then lost again.

So another option is that you can take the chasing group and get them closer, which may or may not require more than a few sentences like "They struck out, Bergil following the tracks with the famed expertise of a Ranger, and, hot damn, the Elf and Child were within view, just over the next ridge." Say one of the horses gets lamed, a storm crops up, Bergil has a sneezing fit, Raefindan stubs his toe, and the followers are forced to watch as Tharonwe picks up Indil and disappears from right between their outstretched fingers. Ouch.

You said yourself that Aedegard and Jorje are in waiting mode.

A dream could be interesting for Raefindan/Roy, as we've had dreams from pretty much everybody else who's tied up in mental knots. But it could also make it harder to move on physically with the plot, just because then it's like sitting around having a dream pow wow. You get a lot of intense mental play, but lose track of what's going on in the surroundings.

So...

(always feel free to ignore me)

I'd say the most beneficial next move is to physically shift Raefindan's group, and then maybe use proximity to Indil/Tharonwe to give birth to a Raefindan/Roy dream. Which it would be mad cool if it impacted Indil/Angela and Tharonwe noticed...

Because I can't imagine Tharonwe not wanting to unravel this mystery.

Question: is Raefindan strong enough to overpower Tharonwe at all?

Because it would be really cool (this is me letting my imagination frolic; don't forget how willing I am to be slapped on the nose with a newspaper and told to sit quietly and hush) if Tharonwe could get his cold-hearted fingers on both Raefindan/Roy and Indil/Angela and probe their minds together...

*meanders away for a while*

[mark12_30]

Er, Mellonin and Ravion were sort of waiting for direction... nevermind. Mellonin has been bashed on the head, and is not as strong (or resilient) as Avarien thinks she should be. Elf wearing huiman body (remember Amroth?) thinks human body can be pushed farther and harder than it really can; dratted human body keeps collapsing for no good reason.

So if needed, we can have Avarien dragf Mellonin out of camp & onup the hillside (Roheryn will cheerfully do as ordered) and make some tracks only to collapse in the snow. Or we can sensibly wait another day at Saethryd';s hut && she can gain alittle more strength and then it will be longer & further til she collapses again.

Ah, mortal weakness. Ravion will tear his hair out once more.

By all means, let's have the pursuers catch sight of Tharonwe & INdil. Hooray. Maybe they only get away because Tharonwe messes with Raefindan's head?

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, good ideas. Thanks.

Alert: Blurt mode approaching.....

HEY FORMY! ARE YOU STILL WRITING WITH US?

End blurt mode.

Okay, part of my frustration is still the sheer number of characters we're dragging around, and it just got worse with Immy dropping out. Yes, we have a way of dealing with that, and I'm quite willing to use it, but this is so unwieldy! It's frustrating.

Okay, now that that rant is done with, I'm cool with your ideas. But first I want Raefindan to almost kill Mellondu at a precipice, to be saved by Aeron sacrificially. Actually, it might be cool to combine catching up to Tharonwe with Mellondu almost getting killed by Raefindan.

But it's too late again today to write a post, and I have a 3 hour meeting tomorrow evening, so I'm sorry but you'll have to wait if you're going to wait for me.

Please pardon me if this is dripping with spleen, I just went through a 2 hour meeting that produced much frustration. Did I have a vacation last week? I seem to remember something like that. What happened? Blah.

Answers: Raefindan cannot overpower Tharonwe, all he can do is withstand his influence once he realizes it's being used on him.

Tharonwe getting Indil/Angela and Raefindan/Roy together and probing both their minds is very intriguing. Question: how do we wrap such a thing back into the plot of Amroth and Nimrodel? Or do we just wing it?

Ravion is the de facto leader of the "behind" group, so he'll force a wait for at least one more day. Ædegard, Leafa and Bellyn will not depart until those who are continuing are ready to rejoin the chase.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

But it's too late again today to write a post, and I have a 3 hour meeting tomorrow evening, so I'm sorry but you'll have to wait if you're going to wait for me.

I mean to wait, but it's not a problem because I have twelve hours of classes tomorrow, then Wednesday I have six hours of classes, plus a random hour of work, all of which include the crit for this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx1-DV9pwTI) godawful assignment, and then, unless I've mistaken the dates, after we talk about how painting gutted fish made us feel, we're painting half-cooked crabs. Then Thursday I have another six hours of classes.

So long story short, even if you posted right this second, I wouldn't be able to do anything for a few days. So I'm unconcerned.

Question: how do we wrap such a thing back into the plot of Amroth and Nimrodel? Or do we just wing it?

Wing it, bearing in mind the ultimate goal of weaving it back into the Amroth/Nimrodel plot. I like subplots. They build dimension and give us something fun to do while we get the rest of the story in working order. As a general sort of thing.

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, cool.

So do we now have 3, 4, 5, or 6 writers? I fear it's only 3.

[Formendacil]

Okay, good ideas. Thanks.

Alert: Blurt mode approaching.....

HEY FORMY! ARE YOU STILL WRITING WITH US?

End blurt mode.

I'm still here, and I've been following the conversation--at least when the internet hasn't been malfunctioning.

I haven't had anything to say, so I haven't said anything. Bergil is decidedly a secondary, not a primary, character, and that's more than fine with me, given that I'm busy enough with homework as it is. As far as posting for him... I'm sort of waiting to see when it's a good time to do so, and so far it hasn't seemed like a good time.

So yes, I'm here, but I'm not to be counted on as a pillar of the story, methinks.

[Firefoot]

I've still been following the RPG, but I think it might be for the best if Rugh just quietly dropped out of the picture. I have been busy, yes, but I'm finding myself more and more unmotivated to write in this (and other) RPG's. Rugh never really was a main character, so I don't feel too bad pulling him out, and as it is I don't want to be slowing the rest of you down.

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, so it looks like we are three main writers with two minor writers. Good to know.

I think there ought to be a storm in the mountains soon, too, something to hold up the front-running groups and so that Ravion, Liornung, Jorje and Mellonin can catch up in a realistic fashion.

We need to get all the characters back in the same story line, please?

[Formendacil]

I think there ought to be a storm in the mountains soon, too, something to hold up the front-running groups and so that Ravion, Liornung, Jorje and Mellonin can catch up in a realistic fashion.

We need to get all the characters back in the same story line, please?

If, as a specific post, this can be done from Bergil's point-of-view (the storm beginning/having to halt), I can probably do that. I feel I should add to my last post by saying: I want to be involved as much as possible, but I have got school and seminary commitments to keep me busy, and I simply don't feel like I have ownership in this RPG, a fact that can only change with time, and given Bergil's non-essentiality to the story, and the age of the RPG itself, will not happen anywhere near overnight.

Consequently, the more you direct me to do, the more I'm liable to do. Which, very unfairly, puts the burden of getting me to post on other people, but I really don't want to tamper with a story that doesn't feel like mine, and which I really have no vision or future planned for. I'm really just along for the ride.

[mark12_30]

SO hey, like, let's make something happen.

[littlemanpoet]

I'll write something. I've been really busy for the last few days. Sorry about that.

Okay, I've wrapped a few different things we've been talking about into one post. Boy is Roy in trouble now.

[mark12_30]

PsychoRoy??? Yoicks!

Bergil want to respond?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Wowee. That's one of those get-things-done posts if I've ever seen one.

Nice one.

Poor Roy...

[littlemanpoet]

PsychoRoy??? Yoicks!
Poor Roy.

Uh, yeah. How do you explain that you've been osanwë hypnotized to a Middle Earth human smith? :p Do you even realize it yourself? :eek: Do you want to? ;)

[mark12_30]

Mellondu considers Raefindan a coldblooded murderer. Erebemlin is too shaken by witnessing and sharing the last moments of Aeron's life to much care at the moment.

I think Erebemlin just learned what it is like to die. Maybe it'll unravel him a bit. Am I missing anybody in Erebemlin's party???

[littlemanpoet]

Bergil.

I want to use Erebemlin to do an osanwë on Raefindan. Things are about to get darker. But first let me read this latest post.

[mark12_30]

I didn't forget Bergil. He's there.

[littlemanpoet]

Yes, I noticed that in the rpg. I was referring to him not being in your list on this discussion. Anyway, I have half a post drafted, and maybe I can complete it now.

[Formendacil]

Okay, I've kind of fallen off the face of the internet with midterms week having crept up unexpectedly....

Bergil may or may not have a post in the next couple days, depending on how well I catch up.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

with midterms week having crept up unexpectedly...

No joke. I haven't quite figured out how the semester is already half over with.

Elempi, where are we sending Tharonwe and Indil next? I considered having a sort of reactionary post, except decided against it for a few reasons. I can always have post-traumatic reactions later, if I decide it's important. But it means that the next time I see Indil is wherever they are when one of us looks back in on them. Will it be them interacting with each other, them interacting with the world, or one of the other characters (Roy? Question mark?) finding them?

[littlemanpoet]

My intention is that Bergil, Erebemlin, and Mellondu have to choose between tying Raefindan up or exiling him out into the coming bad weather. Exiling seems too cruel for our good guy elf, smith, and ranger, but that's what I had planned. I can rationalize this in that Tharonwë osawnë/hypnotizes Bergil into insisting on it. Tharonwë doesn't dare mess with Mellondu's mind because it might wake up Amroth, nor does he dare mess with Erebemlin because Ereb is an Elf who can osanwë-fight back. So Roy will be sent on ahead, and will catch up to Tharonwë and Indil, much the worse for wear as he's going into a snowstorm in the mountains ill-clothed. This puts him into his next bout wiht pneumonia which sends him to dream land. So T & I are holed up against the weather (even an Elf knows better), as are B, E, and M. The other group is too far down the mountain to get caught in the bad weather and may the better conditions to catch up.

How does that look? And T & I can be at the pass where there just so happens to be a cave, how darn lucky can you get. :p

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

How does that look? And T & I can be at the pass where there just so happens to be a cave, how darn lucky can you get. :p

My, how coincidental. A happy accident. I'm sure they'll be very thankful for the shelter.

I won't be able to write this weekend, so I'll have to see what you guys come up with if you write between now and a few days from now. Then I'll see if the time looks right for me to post.

[mark12_30]

Er, Okay. So we need Bergil, right?

How about them Rohirrim?

[littlemanpoet]

Er, Okay. So we need Bergil, right?Right.

Formy, we need you to post, and that post will need to include the fact that Tharonwë has osanwë/hypnotized Bergil into believing that the best thing for the quest is to send Roy on ahead. I foresee a debate about canonicity.

How about them Rohirrim?Do you mean Ædegard and Leafa?

[Formendacil]

Right.

Formy, we need you to post, and that post will need to include the fact that Tharonwë has osanwë/hypnotized Bergil into believing that the best thing for the quest is to send Roy on ahead. I foresee a debate about canonicity.

Do you mean Ædegard and Leafa?

Canonicity? Huh? *is confused*

Well, obviously I didn't get around to posting... a tidal wave of suddenly having a social life, peer pressure, and touring the province with the Archbishop conspired not only to steal me away from RPGs, but homework as well.

I've got 48 hours, so I'll put a save up... but I'll probably need all 48 to get it done. Better hope I have lots of homework: nothing inspires RPG-writing like avoiding homework.

[littlemanpoet]

Canonicity? Huh? *is confused*Or maybe not. We shall see what the actual writing endeavor produces.

[mark12_30]

Do you mean Ædegard and Leafa?

And Liornung. And by association, Bella. ANd I guess by double-association Nethwador.

Those who in Saethryd's cottage do linger.

[Formendacil]

Well, it took me about ten minutes over 48 hours, but I have miraculously filled my Save. I took the liberty of doing it sort of from Tharonwë's perspective, so I hope that's okay.

I'm verging onto a diabetic low at the moment, so I'm not entirely sure if the post is coherent, or if it's any good. If improvements could be made, particularly with regards to continuity/character, by all means let me know. Since I'm off to get sugar right now, I should be in a good state of mind when I'm next on to make reasonable changes.

[littlemanpoet]

Cool post, Formy! You did slightly differently than I had expected, but it turned out better. Or worse - for Raefindan/Roy, I should say. :p Wow! Plenty of grist. I hope to get a chance tonight to post.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Hey, just throwing my head in to say I've been sickly and busy, but I do plan on posting in the near future. Not today. Maybe tomorrow.

[littlemanpoet]

I got a plot twist of a post. I'll put it up now.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Hey, my dears. Indil's glad to see Raefindan, Raefindan's vocabulary (until Elempi or someone writes otherwise) is kind of limited to "unghhhh," and Tharonwe might at some point in his career have read Machiavelli's Il Principe. Sorry Saturday's not quite Thursday.

[littlemanpoet]

This is my first chance in days to spend any real time at the Downs. Anybody else want to post to this rpg?

Ædegard has had a change of heart and is now bent on rescuing Mellondu from the blizzard, and will insist that Leafa remain with Saethryd. What will she do?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Hi. I can't believe it's Friday. *counting down until my first real break at the end of next week*

I'm up for some Indil/Raefindan exchange, but otherwise incapable of making my brain work. What did you have in mind?

[littlemanpoet]

Tharonwë has become, in spite of himself, addicted to looking in others' minds. He can't help himself anymore. So he sees Roy's dream, and what seems completely wrong to him is that Nimrodel barely registers on Roy's mind. That Roy is completely taken up with Mithrellas and this other girl whom Tharonwe simply cannot place, is nothing short of a complete surprise. So he has piles of questions, and asks them of Indil because Raefindan is sick with pneumonia again and is not thinking clearly. Want me to start?

[littlemanpoet]

Nice, deft post, Fea. :D No more fear. I like how you took what Angela portrayed from the vale and applied it to Indil. Classy subtle. ;) And she's still the little girl who asks the obvious question. I ought to let someone else post, to bring some other characters along.

Formy? Helen?

[Formendacil]

Nice, deft post, Fea. :D No more fear. I like how you took what Angela portrayed from the vale and applied it to Indil. Classy subtle. ;) And she's still the little girl who asks the obvious question. I ought to let someone else post, to bring some other characters along.

Formy? Helen?

Unless you have a specific direction to point me in, best not look at me... 'tis crunch time with term papers coming due, and I have no muse at the moment.

[mark12_30]

Hey, my husband is on retreat this weekend so I will actually be able to log in...

Promoted to PI this year, Thought I was going to be in charge of one project, turns out I am in charge of (roughly) four-- HELP ME-- can't log on to the DOWNS at work, either. Can't log on at home.

Could somebody send me the latest set of posts in an email to my work afddress, maybe?

Further discussion later-- must run-- will try to catch up and post sometime tonight or tomorrow-- sorry to have disappeared

--Helen

[littlemanpoet]

I'll see what I can do when I get home. I also sort of left this thing hanging, forgetting that it could be my turn to post. Tonight.

[mark12_30]

Obviously my last needs editing-- but how many horses do we have?> Is everyone who is leaving, mounted? And since Aedegard is cmoing, I'm assuming Leafa is coming, so Bella will, and therefore Nethwador... No? Somebody let me know otherwise &I'll split the party a bit.

[mark12_30]

Hmm- maybe I can set email notifications to digest form and have it forwarded to my work address?

[littlemanpoet]

That's a good idea. Sorry I never got around to getting back to Barrowdowns after Friday noon. Let the whole group go, since they all have natural motivation of one kind or another. I'm finding that now that the story has taken on a bit more life, these npc's are not so hard anymore to carry along.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I'm finding that now that the story has taken on a bit more life, these npc's are not so hard anymore to carry along.

I'd had the thought that if we got rid of all of our spare 'baggage,' knowing us and the nature of story, by the time we were through we were going to have come up with a bunch of replacement characters anyhow. Side characters just add dimension. End of story. (Or more like middle?)

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I know the save I posted said I wouldn't fill it until tomorrow. Turns out I was wrong.

And yep. I'm aware it's a very short post.

But irresistable.

[littlemanpoet]

You sneak! You capacious wit! You capricious whim!

It's completely unexpected and all I need to continue. ;)

[Nurumaiel]

I do regret to say it, but I've finally reconciled myself to the fact that I simply don't have the time to write for the RPG... alas, not even for Liornung. I've tried again and again to make space in the day, but something always comes up, and at this point I'll be doing no more than holding the game up.

Any chance that Liornung can tag along with the departing group? I've been trying to figure out some feasible way of getting him back, considering that he made a rather dramatic speech about how he had to go on.

[mark12_30]

Nuru-- I can relate.

I'm not sure whether any group is departing at the moment... maybe they'll rescue Mellondu first and then depart... I dunno.

We'll see you around, though? I mean, feel free to drop by and cheer us on even if you can't write?

lmp-- whoa. Wow.

[littlemanpoet]

Thanks, Helen. :)

Anybody going to post anything before Roy's next action?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Anybody going to post anything before Roy's next action?

I wouldn't post anything, really, beyond something like "Indil was mad confused by being called an Angela again and had no clue what was going on, but was glad Raefindan was there to keep her safe again."

If you wanted to include that sort of sentiment in a post on my behalf, it would probably save bandwidth or something I don't much understand...

[littlemanpoet]

Humph.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I'm sorry I'm not very helpful right now.

It just doesn't feel right for me to post anything lengthy when, at least at the moment, my character is small, helpless, basically unaware, and glad that the man she thinks is her salvation has come to rescue her.

Hold on...

I just had a post idea.

I'll post a save and fill it tomorrow afternoon. Ish-late tomorrow afternoon since I have classes and meetings until five, but tomorrow.

[littlemanpoet]

Sorry, I was overtired last night and let my grumpiness seep into my posts.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Sorry, I was overtired last night and let my grumpiness seep into my posts.

*offers a hug and a cup of tea*

Don't worry about it.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Save filled.

Enter angst?

[littlemanpoet]

Roy loves Indil. :)

......

I will need a little bit of time to mull my next post.....

[littlemanpoet]

Hello? Hello? Hu-leeeewwww?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Sorry!

Finals week ate me.

But I'm on break for the next three weeks with a brilliant lack of anything to do.

I'm not sure what comes next though.

[littlemanpoet]

1. word from mark12_30
2. The group at the base of the mountains pushes through the increasing layers of snow the farther up they go, trying to make a best guess which way the others went; which although perhaps tricky, is reduced to only one possible way towards the top, as it is a pass high in the mountains.
3. The rear and middle groups meet up where Roy left them.
4. The now unified rear group chases after Tharonwe, Roy, and Indil.
5. ???

While the rear bunch are catching up, Indil, Roy and Tharonwe continue to dream, playl mind games, and face off against each other in whatever shape things take.

Do they catch up? Does Roy succeed in holding Tharonwe from getting any farther? How does he "defeat the enemy"?

My sense is that the culmination of all these events occurs in this vale we keep writing about in dreams, where there is no pitched battle of arms, but one of wills and words and deeds and consequences of actions.

What do you think?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

My sense is that the culmination of all these events occurs in this vale we keep writing about in dreams, where there is no pitched battle of arms, but one of wills and words and deeds and consequences of actions.

What do you think?

I happen to think that the vale is the exact critical location for the climax, otherwise it doesn't make much sense for it to have continuously cropped up.

And I think a battle of words is always fun, a battle of wills is always a challenge to write. For the deeds, are they past deeds or are they non-battle action deeds which will lead to consequences (or are the consequences those of actions we've already written)?

I had an interesting idea.

[littlemanpoet]

For the deeds, are they past deeds or are they non-battle action deeds which will lead to consequences (or are the consequences those of actions we've already written)?

I had an interesting idea.I don't care to specify. Let's see what the muse produces, eh? Maybe it'll be an interesting mix of all of the above, though I doubt there will be much in terms of battle action.

What's your idea?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I posted it, basically, on the story thread.

[mark12_30]

Hail.... and sleet and snow.

Big climax happens in the vale? I'm good with that as long as the vale is very very near the ocean....

I'm a bit puzzled about the timing-- is the (now unified) pursuing group very near catching Tharonwe? Or should we catch up to them as Tharonwe & co finds the vale? I guess it's time to locate the vale geographically. (fuzzy memory-- have we already done that or...?)

EDIT OK; reread the above list; keyword there is "chase".... OK. IT' will be good to have the groups unified again.

[littlemanpoet]

Glad to have you back again, Helen. :)

What a flippin' crazy story this has been, and almost completely because while I was de facto leader, I totally goofed up the geography, and we're dealing with the results of that. :rolleyes:

What did we establish? That we entered the mountains between the 2nd and 3rd beacon hills? If so, we come out of the White Mountains above the sources of the River Gilraen. Did we talk about that before?

Or were we supposed to be near Erech?

Either way, we're not that close to the great water. In either case it's about a day's boat ride downstream to the Bay of Belfalas.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

'K, I posted Indil's game, though not entirely how I originally intended. This can be taken any way you deem interesting.

[littlemanpoet]

I'm interested in taking this in at least two ways at once: as an imaginative game of "what does Indil want", or of "does Indil have second sight?", and perhaps something else too.

I like how this can work as a means of narrating the rescue attempt, and how the others find Indil and Raefindan. I like this! Quite an imaginative trick, there.

I'll try to find time to post soon.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I like how this can work as a means of narrating the rescue attempt, and how the others find Indil and Raefindan. I like this! Quite an imaginative trick, there.

I'll try to find time to post soon.

I originally meant for Indil to teach Raefindan a song and a game her mother had taught her, and through it to reveal to herself that her mother has died.

Except I started writing and realized it simply didn't work (and I had no mind for song writing), and that I don't want Indil to know about her past. At least not yet.

It's as if a barrier rose the second her parents died and sealed her past away from her. As if she's always been under the protection of our group. She has absolutely no awareness beyond bad dreams that terrible things have happened to her.

So I needed a plausible game for any small child to play, regardless of who taught it to them. This rock is going to be this, and that rock is going to be that, and they're going to interact.

Anything we write as being surreal about it will be as apparent to her as the abnormality of conversing with dead people and distant Elves: she won't think a thing of it. It's my favorite aspect of childhood: the ability to believe and to imagine, the complete lack of awareness that something might not be what it is. The innocence of it. Indil is who or what she is, and is blissfully ignorant that she might indeed be very special.

In any case... the key point, now that I've rambled, is that I like the idea of narrating the others through Indil's game, provided nobody minds... It provides me the bliss or writing a small child's clarity and the imaginative freeplay of writing the supernatural in a very matter of fact manner. And it's convenient...

[littlemanpoet]

The only way I can think to make this work is to do a PM post, because it requires a constant back and forth conversation, at least the way I'm thinking of it. If you can think of another way, please inspire me by telling it to me. In the meantime, I'll start a PM post.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

PM post is fine with me.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

PM co-post is up.

[littlemanpoet]

Well, it has been a useful break from this pursuit, but I wouldn't mind getting back to it. Is there anybody else interested in bringing this along?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Well, it has been a useful break from this pursuit, but I wouldn't mind getting back to it. Is there anybody else interested in bringing this along?

I'm here and rather apologetic about how little self-motivation I seem to be having just now. It's more that school started again and I was testing out new classes (four are pleasant, two are not) and seeing what my schedule/time is like (conducive to projects).

I'm thinking about the story. The storm's over and the Elf/man/girl are moving on. The others aren't so terribly far behind them. But I'm loathe to follow them all step by step through the mountains, across the desert, to the canyon of the crescent moo-- I mean... Is it possible that we could summarize (artistically, obviously) and shift our various companies to a next key place or event? I find myself thinking that a change of scenery (quite literally) might spark up a bit more paced enthusiasm.

And if it's just the two of us, enthusiasm is especially important to keep us on track and writing and happy and etcetera.

[mark12_30]

I'm watching. It's just that I have no idea what to do. I don't have the big picture anymore.

We've got Erebemlin's party; Tharonwe's party; and Ædegard/ Ravion's party. And Nimrodel's party. I've pretty much lost track of Amroth, since i've lost track of the big picture.

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, I'm fine with the scene change. It's the southern slope that they are coming down, now, and it can be a much milder climate. Think of it this way: once they pass a certain point, they are surprised to find a very sudden point at which the snow begins, say at the final ridge upward, and the southern slope is, if not spring like, at least not covered in snow. And they enter the "spillway" of the Gilraen, with its many cascading streams and waterfalls. Sound inspirational?

Helen, we have tried to artistically draw together the Ravion and Erebemlin parties. You may now consider the one to have found the other.

I think an interesting post would be an exchange of information between the two parties, in particular the news from Erebemlin, Bergil, or Mellondu, that Aeron is dead and Raefindan has turned murderer and traitor, which of course Ædegard, Ravion, Mellonin and the others will find it hard to accept ... and Jorje won't believe it for a moment, I might add. ;)

Once they argue all of this out, they can push through to where the three holed up, discover it, and realized they're not at all far behind.

And of course sprinkle all of this with dreams of Nimrodel and Mithrellas and now Angela, with Aeron and Gwyllion ghosting the vale.

So...

next post: discussion and argument and disagreement amongst the now unified chasing party. Helen, can you attempt to write this? Or shall we do a three-way PM post which Helen can then post to the rpg thread?

next post #2: The three descend into a stream filled, waterfally, almost springlike mountain slope into the Gilraen valley - either Fea or Elempi (or both) can write this.

next post #3: The chasers can finally catch sight of the chased, (not too) far below them on the mountain slope, and give fresh chase.

next post #4: They come all at a sudden to the vale, which is still a good ways up the mountain slope, but in a relatively verdant climate.

After this the climax may ensue. Sound like a plan?

[littlemanpoet]

Helen, I just had another thought. Mellondu has to wonder why Raefindan tried to kill him. Wouldn't this have been enough to stir up Amroth?

[mark12_30]

For the next step I think three-way PM post will be best, although it will take some time -- can you cc me at work with just plain text?-- but I think you two will help me get the big flick back.

THis is something that's been hanging over my head, a bit. I do want to finish it. It is refreshing to think that we are so close to an end. Thank you both for continuing on this even when I was wrapped up in RL, and being happy to help me out here in my glassy-eyed state.

[littlemanpoet]

cc you in plain text? You're talking to a computer user, not a geek. I know as much about computers as a driver about cars. :p Do you mean to PM you in plain text? I take it there's an option for that? Or do you want us to email you?

[mark12_30]

Email will work. Sorry bout that. PMs will also work as long as you're willing to be verry verry patient, preciousss, because there's about a day's delay in when I get my notification.... Fea, if you email lmp, and he emails me, then I'll get you my addresses.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

LMP, can you PM me the best e-mail address to use for you? I'll let you know via PM what e-mail address I'll use.

[littlemanpoet]

I've PMd you both. This is actually kind of exciting. We're about to embark on truly collaborative writing.

[Formendacil]

While I'm perfectly content to sit on the sidelines for as long as possible... for all the usual reasons of lethargy and lack of direction... I feel morally obliged to point out that I guess I'm still around, and can probably write posts in the near future--if I get some direction where I should be going. It's the perennial problem for me: I own the character, no problem there, but Bergil and I are just sort of along for the ride. We're not in the driver's seat.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

We're not in the driver's seat.

I'd say at the moment Elempi's in the driver's seat, whether or not he wants it. The way I visualize it is that once in a while he leans back and says "Hey Fea, I'll take care of the gas and brakes [and maybe clutch], if you'll take the wheel for a bit." And, like with acquaintances who suggest I take the wheel from the passenger's seat, I absently reach over and navigate. And while it feels awkward and dangerous at times, especially around corners, it can be downright thrilling once you reach your destination and realize that not only have you not crashed and burned, but your trip was more interesting for the switch. :p

Wow. What a conceit that was.

[littlemanpoet]

Wow. What a conceit that was.Indeed. :D

Formy, I requested response from you at least twice in the last little while with no response, and now out of nowhere you make yourself known..... with the usual reservations. Can you commit to this for the rest of its short life, or not?

[Formendacil]

Indeed. :D

Formy, I requested response from you at least twice in the last little while with no response, and now out of nowhere you make yourself known..... with the usual reservations. Can you commit to this for the rest of its short life, or not?

You did? *shakes head at self* I guess I never saw that... which is strange, but not entirely unexpected given the past month.

I would like to stay committed. If you say "rest of its short life", then that makes it rather possible sounding.

I guess it comes down to a question of what's expected. With regards to this RPG I consistently feel a bit confused as to how much you're anticipating in the way of posts. Unlike Fea, I've never really acclimatized myself to an RPG where, although I've read it, I have no history with its previous formation. Nor is my character so placed as to be a driving force in the plot. Bergil is basically just another "secondary human character" in a group full of them--which is fine with me.

I don't feel comfortable in this RPG with taking responsibility for the direction of the plot, and although seminary life is certainly busy, that is the chief factor in my infrequent posting. I could make many and varied--and true--excuses for my repeated set-backs in terms of frequent commitment (including months of no internet, broken legs, exams... etc... etc...), but that's the essence of it.

It's really up to you. In terms of frequency of posting, I can give as much as I ever have, but that's not an awful lot, I suppose, even looking at the best weeks. In this situation I seem to be a high maintenance writer, and I can't blame you for being frustrated with having to constantly prod me. If you want to cut me, then that's probably for the best, and I would have absolutely no hard feelings about that. On the flip side, if you think that I'm worth having around, in whatever shoddy form, then I do still want to contribute what little I'm capable of. I joined this RPG in good faith and although life has conspired with my laziness to foil my good intentions, I still have those good intentions.

So... I hate to put the onus on you, since that's all too often the story here, but... well... that's sort of where the onus is. I don't know what your exact expectations are for commitment, but it should be altogether too apparent how much commitment I'm able to offer: as soon as something new crops up here I tend to read it within a couple days, and if prompted can usually respond immediately or soon after (the past month being a bit of an anomaly that I don't anticipate returning, but cannot promise). Most important to consider: I'm not going to take initiative here.

As I said, if you'd rather I drop out, then I am completely fine with that (and would probably find it something of a relief), but there's also no hard feelings about keeping me around. "Not my will, but yours be done." *cough*

[mark12_30]

For me, stories are about the integrity of the characters more than about the plot. I.e. the plot should fulfill who the characters are, in a sense, complete their destiny.

So-- Formy, a question. Is Bergil-- as a man-- merely passingly interested in Indil's future, and ready to turn her safety over to someone else-- or is he passionately devoted to Indil ? I don't mean passionately as Raefindan would be, but as a protector, a helper and rescuer?

To put it another way, would he really really like to kill Tharonwe for what Tharonwe has put Indil through?

I know, turn the other cheek. However (a) that revelation has not entered Middle-Earth quite yet and (b) as a christian I don't believe that's intended when there are completely innocent lives involved, i.e. protecting the innocent is a call on any honest man's life. Indil is utterly innocent. Tharonwe is not. How does Bergil feel about him?

And:

I'm having a hard time writing both sides of the Ravion/ Mellonin love story. I'm used to having someone else write Ravion. To me he is central to Mellonin's plot. Does he interest you?

[littlemanpoet]

Formy, when you have written, there has been depth worth reading. If the last month as been an anomaly and you promise to post when asked to, that's good enough for me. I think that Helen makes a good point as to Bergil's motivations, especially now that Raefindan has (in appearance) turned traitor.

As to Ravion, my opinion is that the right person to write him is Orual. Given that she is not available to us anymore, Helen knows him best. Were Formy or Fea or I to write him, he would undergo some kind of strange personality alteration, I fear, and that would not be good for the relationship. Unless Formy believes that he can give it a good go, I would suggest that Helen continue to write him, and be willing to accept suggestions from Fea and me (and Formy if he cares to) as to any apparent changes needed as we proceed.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I would suggest that Helen continue to write him, and be willing to accept suggestions from Fea and me (and Formy if he cares to) as to any apparent changes needed as we proceed.

This seems best to me. I'd offer to take him, but he's not the sort of character I work best with (ie: he's just so darned normal) and like Elempi said, I'm pretty sure under my direction he'd have manic personality changes regardless of good intentions, and things would get messed up utterly.

And I'd like Formy to continue writing with us because to my mind, Bergil has unfinished business. Like Helen said: Indil. She's his charge, and she's (to the eyes of the group) currently a hostage of an evil jerk and a murderer who's working for the evil jerk. Loose ends tend to need tying.

And as Elempi pointed out: it's not a long commitment, if we can work quickly. We're so near to the end, that now it's just finishing.

[Formendacil]

So-- Formy, a question. Is Bergil-- as a man-- merely passingly interested in Indil's future, and ready to turn her safety over to someone else-- or is he passionately devoted to Indil ? I don't mean passionately as Raefindan would be, but as a protector, a helper and rescuer?

To put it another way, would he really really like to kill Tharonwe for what Tharonwe has put Indil through?

I know, turn the other cheek. However (a) that revelation has not entered Middle-Earth quite yet and (b) as a christian I don't believe that's intended when there are completely innocent lives involved, i.e. protecting the innocent is a call on any honest man's life. Indil is utterly innocent. Tharonwe is not. How does Bergil feel about him?

I certainly do see Bergil as a "turn the other cheek" sort. Take a look at his readiness to tussle with Pippin, and look at the family background--Beregond can take a lot on faith, but he'll strike a mortal blow for Faramir.

So, as to his relationship with Indil, Bergil sees himself as responsible for her. He is, in his mind, basically her legal guardian: he found her and took her with him and until and unless her family turns up, he's going to act as such. Being young and a warrior by trade and nature, I imagine he'd gladly strike a violent blow right at Tharonwë. I'm not sure it would be an irrational rage driving him so much as a righteous anger and a very clear sense of justice--which, of course, has been horribly violated.

(As a side-note, it's interesting to consider where this attitude of Bergil's would leave him at the end of the tale, with Indil's family presumably dead. Bergil doesn't exactly have the lifestyle conducive to raising a young girl But that's not really relevant to the moment.)

Formy, when you have written, there has been depth worth reading. If the last month as been an anomaly and you promise to post when asked to, that's good enough for me. I think that Helen makes a good point as to Bergil's motivations, especially now that Raefindan has (in appearance) turned traitor.

Then I'll stick around. As far as I know, last month was an internetless anomaly.

On the subject of Raefindan & Bergil, it will certainly be interesting to see what transpires when they meet again.

As regards Ravion--I certainly don't feel I know his character well enough to write him. I know his exterior habits somewhat, but I don't know what makes him tick on the inside.

[mark12_30]

OK, I'll keep Ravion. But I really do miss Orual.

[littlemanpoet]

... it's interesting to consider where this attitude of Bergil's would leave him at the end of the tale, with Indil's family presumably dead. Bergil doesn't exactly have the lifestyle conducive to raising a young girl But that's not really relevant to the moment.Maybe not Bergil, but perhaps Ravion and Mellonin will have such a lifestyle.

Then I'll stick around. As far as I know, last month was an internetless anomaly.Good. :)

Yes, Helen, I miss Orual too. :(

[littlemanpoet]

Formendacil, we would be most pleased if you could post a reply to the question in Helen's most recent post.

[mark12_30]

Formy, you're on. If you can't post quickly, how about a save with a summary and a final sentence? We'll keep plugging.

EDIT: Wow, cross posted with lmp. Hi lmp! *waves*

[Formendacil]

Well, I certainly did not expect to fill my save so quickly... but there was a lucky break getting out of Compline early, and I thought it best to post while I still had surety of time to do so. It's a short post: little more than recapitulation and some vocalisation of motivation by Bergil, but it moves the plot along, and Bergil hasn't had much in the way of action to prompt great changes of mental activity since his last post.

All the usual caveats about changes, suggestions, et cetera, apply.

[littlemanpoet]

Thanks, Formy.

Hi back, Helen. (Elempi waves) I was in a hurry and had just enough time to post that up, and was gone again.

I guess that means that Helen, Fea and I will continue via email for now.

[littlemanpoet]

Helen, could you please email or PM me that email containing some of Ædegard and Leafa's conversation? You seem to have been inspired as needed to get back into your own posts, so I need my stuff back. ;)

[mark12_30]

Er, sure, but I'm not really. Exactly. I'm not sure how to weave the two, er, threads together. Anyway the email is on its way but I'm not out of the woods yet???

Trust me, I still need the email process even if I launch off in another direction at the same time. Sort of. Don't drop me now, lmp. I wasn't dropping you. Just trying to file two different things in two different places.

And if you have any ideas as to how best to weave the threads PLEASE tell me. (Ack.)

[mark12_30]

And FOrmy, that was great-- thanks. Nice take on Ravion.

[littlemanpoet]

Helen, can you post the formulating post to the discussion thread? That would help me out, and then we can continue to work via email also. See, I'm at a Worship Symposium and not at work today through Saturday, so I have greater frequency of checking but less sustained time.

[mark12_30]

While the others saw to the needs of Mellonin, or whomever she now was, Ædegard went over to Leafa. Jorje joined them, pushing his head under the Ædegard's good hand, who scratched the dog's ears absently.

"I can't imagine it, Leafa," he said. "Raefindan? It makes no sense. He wouldn't kill Aeron. There must be some mistake."

"Might Aeron have provoked him?" she asked, shaking her head to counter her own suggestion.

Ædegard smiled in spite of himself. "Not since his sister's death. He was mischievous, I am told, before that, but was greatly subdued afterward. Her death changed him. It is almost as if he perhaps welcomed it." But that did not sit well either. "Nay, I cannot believe that our friends lie. But if Raefindan did this deed, he cannot have been in his right mind."

Liornung stood nearby. "Did you hear your last words, Ædegard? Perhaps he was not in his right mind. Did not Tharonwë work such mischief before?"

"Yes, but then how is it that these three think nothing of that?"

"I do not know," Liornung replied

"Maybe," Leafa tentatively offered, "we should ask them?"

[mark12_30]

...and if they DO ask, then what shall my boys say...? fuzz-brains? Or anger or...?

Too bad we have no miruvor, to get Mellonin up and going. How about... er... anybody got some expresso?

[littlemanpoet]

Well, I've had Ædegard choose to avoid the issue, and Leafa is not one to take initiative, from my experience. Liornung? Maybe he would, but in a songish or wimsified way? So the question may never get asked.

If it does, however, I would expect them to simply deny it, because it does not square with what their convinced of.

[littlemanpoet]

So what are we gonna do about this?

[Formendacil]

So what are we gonna do about this?

About the specific question Helen asked? No idea. Bergil's job is to answer them is they ask, not to decide to ask or not. If pressed, though, he'll probably--as you predict--deny the charge that Tharonwë is messing with his mind, but admit the possibility.

If you're asking about general plot movement... don't look at me.

(Basically, I'm only posting to indicate that I am, in fact, checking in daily to see if there's anything I should be doing... )

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I just wanted to briefly shove my head through the door (brick wall I've been banging it against?) and let you guys know that while I didn't die, I've got to duck out entirely (as in not even looking) for the next two to three weeks (midterms exams and reviews which are substantially more critical than usual).

And can somebody please assign the USPS to Mordor? Because the express package I was promised would be delivered last Wednesday didn't get here until Thursday but I didn't find out about it until Saturday, after which I had to wait until today to go get it, but when I got there... they had lost it. And I really need it.

My life!

So that's where I am. Big tests and big stress.

So good luck! I love you all. Please wish me happy thoughts? I'll be back as soon as I'm able.

[littlemanpoet]

Duly noted, commiserated, wished for, and prayed for. See you all in about three weeks, I suppose...

[littlemanpoet]

I'm going to be leaving the Barrowdowns soon. Nothing wrong, it's just time. But before I do so, I'm going to wrap up my commitments here, which consist of 4 rpgs, including this one. Although this one appears to be closest to its ending, I have a hunch that it may be the last one that concludes. :rolleyes: ;) Anyway, just letting you know. When I depart I'll be leaving my email address and xanga link behind; I think most of you know them already anyway, but there it is.

[mark12_30]

Believe me, I so understand. My "spring" is waving a mace at me, like the one the Witch-King waved at Eowyn.....

Nevertheless: I'm honored that you want to finish up.

So:

What's next?

[littlemanpoet]

Fea will be back next week. I can post for Roy once, to get the threesome moving ahead of the pursuers. Once Fea's back we can continue the Indil/Roy/Tharonwe part. In the meantime, we can write the 2 parties slogging through the snow by the treacherous chasm and through the pass, and they can check out the little cave where the 3 stayed, and then start down the mountain and discover that they leave the snow behind almost immediately. And then Erebemlin (and perhaps others) can spot the three ahead in the distance; and the chase ensues in earnest.

[littlemanpoet]

I had forgotten that Roy had resolved to hold Tharonwe in the cave until the others arrived. That "holding" is now accomplished, and the next post or series of posts brings the pursuers to the cave where they will find the three, and then a most interesting discussion will ensue. After that, we could narrate a quick journey to the Vale, write the climax, and denouement. I think we could have this done by the end of March.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I'm going to be leaving the Barrowdowns soon. Nothing wrong, it's just time. But before I do so, I'm going to wrap up my commitments here, which consist of 4 rpgs, including this one.

Essentially, and to be concise: ditto.

Like you said, Elempi, it's just time. Maybe it's been time for a while.

This is my last commitment. I want to finish before I disappear. April 10th is my tentative 'last day.' Do you think we can finish before then? It's been a long ride, and I was only even on board for the last part of it...

If we can't finish by then, it'll need to be finished without me.

Until then, I'm going to check out the story thread and see what I can do.

[littlemanpoet]

From the cave to the vale should not take much, and the vale itself may not take much, depending. If you need to exit before the story is done, Fea, I suppose I can probably use your posts as a guide as to how to handle Indil. Then again, I have this thing in my head that when Indil arrives, Angela's "ghost" is going to enter into her little body, and then who knows what may happen? My bet is unity and completion, and some incredible words from one so young. ;)

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

If you need to exit before the story is done, Fea, I suppose I can probably use your posts as a guide as to how to handle Indil.

I hope we're done before I go. I'd love to guarantee that I could be around until we finish officially artistically completely wonderfully and everything, except I'm moving to Brooklyn in a month and won't have internet access, so when I have to go, it'll really be gone. :(

Then again, I have this thing in my head that when Indil arrives, Angela's "ghost" is going to enter into her little body, and then who knows what may happen? My bet is unity and completion, and some incredible words from one so young. ;)

Okay. You should give me a heads up of what sort of incredible words you have in mind. Or we can co-post like we've done and fiddle with it that way. Or whatever works. I'm open to creative ways of functioning.

[littlemanpoet]

Put it this way: she'll be "channeling" Angela. No, that's not quite right. She'll BE both Angela and Indil at once, but not the fighting way or the 'now I'm him, and later I'll be him" way we're seeing it with Mellondu and Amroth. I picture it like how Roy is both Raefindan and the Gondorian husband of Mithrellas (I can't remember his name right now). Oh yeah, Imrazor, I think. Anyway, he knows his own "future" past and has memories which Mithrellas awakens, or he dreams, of his past as Imrazor. So Indil will have Angela's memories, complete with Angela's wisdom about those memories.... if she didn't, Indil wouldn't be able to cope.

[mark12_30]

WOw. Guess my stuff's easy compared to that.

I will do the best I can. I am in the middle of a spring like no other. BUt being done by april 10 is a good goal for me too. I think.

[mark12_30]

In case a bit of clarity is wanted, here's what I think I was thinking: Avarien "Followed the child" as in, Indil knew where Nimrodel is. The men did the tracking to find Indil &co; Avarien knew that Nimrodel was somewhere nearby but without clarity. Indil showed her where (or at least gave her a clear direction, 'thataway'.)

If anyone doesn't like it I'll edit. Just trying to make progress.

[littlemanpoet]

Fascinating. Helen, you have a mind for Elves. But I'm interested in the human side of this. I know that Roy will feel a joy just as powerful, if not more so, than that of the Elves, but for a different reason. The other humans, however, are going to find the laughter catching, but not knowing what their laughing about, and there should be some embarrassment and confusion among them as they must deal with these suddenly "beyond them" strong personalities. In addition, the humans would not be able to so easily dismiss the matter of Roy. There has been betrayal, and the humans probably don't understand much less agree with Erebemlin's pronouncement that Roy's doom is his own. THey'll want an explanation and certainly they'll want to be brought up to date as to what has happened.

Jorje, meanwhile, should be feeling the laughter and barking his canine head off with delight, maybe even howling with glee.

I can see writing that. But I'm wondering if Formy wants to take a stab at it too, and Helen, what about you maybe writing Ravion doing that wondering? And I'd sure get a kick out of how Indil would fit into this.

[Formendacil]

I can see writing that. But I'm wondering if Formy wants to take a stab at it too, and Helen, what about you maybe writing Ravion doing that wondering? And I'd sure get a kick out of how Indil would fit into this.

Formy, unfortunately, is starting to descent into paper-hell, and is fighting a rearguard battle with a cold, so it'd be best not too wait on him. That being said, I am still keeping up, and a quick post with Bergil's reaction would be fun... so if I have time, I'll try and put one up in the next day or so, but don't wait for me if you're ready to move on.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

So I have come to the realization in the past few weeks that

1) sharks can jump out of the water
2) da Vinci was painting when Columbus sailed the Ocean Blue

but more applicably,

3) Indil has unresolved parent issues.

I need her to 'come to terms' with her parents' death. And by that, I mean not that she has to move beyond is psychologically/emotionally/etcetera, but that she simply needs to realize that her parents are dead and react to it, instead of having a mental block to it. Indil needs to know her parents aren't coming back. Anybody have any suggestions as to how I could bring this about without it feeling uncomfortably convoluted?

[mark12_30]

Fascinating. Helen, you have a mind for Elves. But I'm interested in the human side of this. I know that Roy will feel a joy just as powerful, if not more so, than that of the Elves, but for a different reason. The other humans, however, are going to find the laughter catching, but not knowing what their laughing about, and there should be some embarrassment and confusion among them as they must deal with these suddenly "beyond them" strong personalities. In addition, the humans would not be able to so easily dismiss the matter of Roy. There has been betrayal, and the humans probably don't understand much less agree with Erebemlin's pronouncement that Roy's doom is his own.

That 'pronouncement' was partly due to Erebemlin's sensing multiple-- er-- layers in Raefindan, but also from the sense that Nimrodel was nearby, and his king's joy at hand, so, more pressing things to do.


THey'll want an explanation and certainly they'll want to be brought up to date as to what has happened.

Indeed; I think that is why I left the humans unwritten. Ravion will be quite torn about it all. WIll Roy indeed laugh? Interesting! I did not see that. THe rohirrim I don't see clearly either. Nethwador will catch Amroth's laughter (good call) but that's all I clearly see.

Jorje, meanwhile, should be feeling the laughter and barking his canine head off with delight, maybe even howling with glee.

Good dog!

I can see writing that. But I'm wondering if Formy wants to take a stab at it too, and Helen, what about you maybe writing Ravion doing that wondering? And I'd sure get a kick out of how Indil would fit into this.

I can think about Ravion for a little and then put up a post perhaps this evening.

I needed recreation, and this is just the medicine. Thanks to the three of you.

Fea: Da Vinci painted the great blue sea in 1493??? Wow. Did not know that. Umm, so... INdil's parents. Hmm. Perhaps Bergil and Avarien can combine for this. Perhaps Avarien/Mellonin takes a maternal interest in Indil (meep, I'm not sure I can write it, feel free) and then perhaps Bergil confides in Mellonin that Indil's parents likely came to a bad end. Once she gets that hint, perhaps Avarien can gently explore Indil's mind together with her, and help her remember, in order to help her grieve.

Formy or Fea, Feel free to write it if you like it. My head isn't in that space, at least not this afternoon.

[littlemanpoet]

My sense for Indil and the parents issue is that it rises to the surface when all the adventure has quieted, at least for a spell. That's when Indil's own emotions will take over and surprise her as well as everybody else. Something as simple as mildly tearful wish with words like "I wish papa and mama were here." And then the words themselves can evoke the stronger emotions of fear that they're never coming back and all the turmoil that goes with that.

I could post for Roy soon, but I'm not sure when. Busy night tonight (concert) and then busy day tomorrow (men's group & then youth group "boot camp" over night), so Sunday afternoon/evening may be my first chance to post.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Something as simple as mildly tearful wish with words like "I wish papa and mama were here." And then the words themselves can evoke the stronger emotions of fear that they're never coming back and all the turmoil that goes with that.

Perfect. I love it.

I'm busy this weekend too. Mostly painting, since I have a pile of professional quality paintings due to be judged on Wednesday. :eek::eek::eek:

But maybe this afternoon before everybody's out of classes, I can slip in and write something nice.

[littlemanpoet]

Well it's cool to see all this flurry of activity! :) Next time someone suggests splitting a party late in an rpg, I'm going to put my foot down and say "no way, you're asking for trouble!" Of course, there may not be a next time, depending on my other current commitments..... :rolleyes:. I'll wait for Fea's save to be filled and perhaps for Formy to post by the end of Sunday.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Save filled. Short and sweet.

[littlemanpoet]

That was deft, Fea. :)

I will now wait for Formy to do the uncomfortable Bergil post that must be written before I post again.

[Formendacil]

Your words had more confidence in my likelihood of writing than I did, Elempi... Passion Sunday weekend and into Holy Week are not unbusy times for a seminarian.

However, it seems your faith was well-placed. Though posted after you, there is in fact a Bergil post up, awaiting Indil's reply that, in truth, her family is not around to be found... or whatever.

As always, I'm open to comments/criticisms...

[mark12_30]

Formy, I like that Bergil is eerie of the elves. Nice touch.

Fea. That was wow.

[littlemanpoet]

While Helen was posting, I was reading. Both of you, Formy and Fea, Wow! Fascinating writing! I'm stunned by the maturity in little Indil in the last post. It came sooner than I expected, but it just has the feel of rightness. Wow!

Helen, can you post Ravion's or anybody else's reactions to Raefindan's confession? I could post for Ædegard, but I fear I have a bias that Ædegard would not understand. :p

[mark12_30]

Um... we'll see, here goes.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Fea. That was wow.

Thanks very much.

I'm stunned by the maturity in little Indil in the last post. It came sooner than I expected, but it just has the feel of rightness. Wow!

Gracias. It just seemed right. So I trusted in the instinct, and based on your reactions, I'm glad I did.

[mark12_30]

lmp,

Be blunt about exactly what you'd like changed, and I will make it so... meanwhile the pillow calleth.

Sigh no more, pine, til the wind of the morn
Fall, moon; dark be the land;
hush, hush, oak, ash and thorn,
hushed be all water til dawn is at hand.

[littlemanpoet]

Raefindan deems himself culpable for Aeron's death because in his mind he lied to himself; in his will he chose to do so; and in his actions he did so. These self-deceits, as minor as they seemed, left him open to the manipulations of Tharonwë.

So he is most apt to say something like, "I own Aeron's death in mind, will, and deed, though if not for the evil mind of he who killed Gwyllion I would not have done so."

However that is tortured, and I cannot think in this short time of a better way to say it.

[mark12_30]

Let me know if you'd like me to mod the post, otherwise I assume-- forward.

[littlemanpoet]

Change the first part of Raefindan's last sentence to this:

"Though my will, mind and body were used, it was another who sought to kill,..." and then finish it the way you have.

[mark12_30]

OK, done.

[littlemanpoet]

So I've been saying that it's not far from the pass to the vale. Are we satisfied with the springs of the Gwathlo as to where the vale is (in general)?

[mark12_30]

I was thinking, they march thru the night and arrive at dawn. Reasonable? Or too quick?

Gwathlo is in Eriador. Did you mean Gilrain?

[mark12_30]

Gilrain is too far west. What pass did we go over? I know we never made it as far aw Erech, not nearly. I'll try and figure out where we crossed the mountains.

[mark12_30]

lmp said:Okay, I'm cool with that too. Celuien has already said she's okay with it. So okay, let's keep the momentum going, and have Nimrodel (map 45 now) near the source of the Gilraen. That way she has been consistently about 3,000 feet up, from the Paths of the Dead to near the Gilraen. I'm cool with that. That gives everybody a little farther to travel, which is fine too.

Okay. Gilrain. Rechecking map.

If we want Gilrain then apparently we are south of the the beacon of... Minrimmon.

Erelas might have a nicer "pass" thru the white mountains, though. that would put us at the stream of Celos rather than Gilrain. But I guess it doesn't really matter. Either of those stream s show up on the map fairly far north into the mountains. And they would be little bubbly streams, far up into the mountains, with little pools and glades. So pick one. Gilrain, or Celos?

I was a bit stressed about the travel times; but we have been wandering and hunting, whereas the Rohirrim went from Dunharrow to Minas Tirith in four days hard riding. So we did some slow-and-steady, a few loopbacks. I guess its' okay.

Rougly fifty miles, or a midge more, from Erelas to Celos, or, from Minrimmon to Gilrain. maybe. How long have we been travelling from Saethryd's cottage? And how far up the mountainside was Saethryd's cottage? Let's say it was a fiull days' travel but not up to the treeline? I'll go look at what we've been doing since we left Saethryd's house.

[littlemanpoet]

Sorry, Gwathlo was off the cuff memory, which is apparently poor. Looking at Map 45 in the Journeys of Frodo book, I have been writing under the working assumption that we're talking about the first pass west of Mindolluin so that the party comes down from the mountains between the Celos and the Sirith. The Vale would therefore be near the sources of Celos. Or maybe they could be beyond the Celos, near the Gilraen. We could simply narrate (tell rather than show) a couple days journey through the heights until that point, with little happening except movement. That doesn't hurt our rpg, I don't think. Whatever you want to do.

[mark12_30]

Leaving Saethryd's house: post 119. Presumably we rode all day. (Somehow all those horses disappeaed by post 137 and Roheryn is alone. This just ain't right; When Roheryn goes down the mountainside all the rest should go with him.)

Nighttime when Mellonin rested under duress: post 133

daylight, at what sounds like a mountain pass: maybe over the ridge?-- : post 137 )GLad to notice that Roheryn went DOWN the mountainside)

This same post also has sundown; and there they find INdil.

Then we march downhill all night til dawn. And that's where we are now.

So .... if Saethryd's cottage was a day's journey up the mountains, call that eighteen miles on horseback. We left Saethryd's cottage: slow riding in deep snow: Call it Twelve miles. So we've gone thirty out of fifty when we meed up with Erebemlin &co. Rest one night. Hard march the next day: call it ten, turning the horses loose. So now we've gone forty.

THen we find INdil &co, and instead of resting (what are we, NUTS) we march all night again. Call it another ten miles or fifteen. So we'd be fifty or fifty-five miles total, most or all of the way down the other side. (Are we that athletic?)

Maybe we should reconsider. Elves desperate to go on; humans MUST rest. Maybe even Erebemlin has a moment of sanity and realizes that Mellondu's body can't handle the constant work, let alone the weakened Mellonin; and Erebemlin calls for a rest.

But they are almost to the end of the quest. NO, it doesn't make sense. THey HAVE to push on. Mayvbe the Rohirrim fall behind but the elves have to push down the mountain and find her. Nothing else makes sense.

[mark12_30]

Sorry, Gwathlo was off the cuff memory, which is apparently poor. Looking at Map 45 in the Journeys of Frodo book, I have been writing under the working assumption that we're talking about the first pass west of Mindolluin so that the party comes down from the mountains between the Celos and the Sirith. The Vale would therefore be near the sources of Celos. Or maybe they could be beyond the Celos, near the Gilraen. We could simply narrate (tell rather than show) a couple days journey through the heights until that point, with little happening except movement. That doesn't hurt our rpg, I don't think. Whatever you want to do.

Whether we came south from Nardol to Tumladen, or from Erelas to Celos (I'd prefer the latter) I think we are okay-- as long as it's a LITTLE stream high up on the mountainsides, which pauses in a high glade to form a pool, and then goes downhill again, building strength as it goes tumbling downhill.

I think we're almost there.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

THey HAVE to push on. Mayvbe the Rohirrim fall behind but the elves have to push down the mountain and find her. Nothing else makes sense.

If the Elves can't wait, surely Roy and Indil/Angela and whoever else can't hang out in the background, arriving once everything's already happened. I think everybody who needs to show up needs to show up at the same time...

[mark12_30]

I just called a nap. It should be at least two hours, while the herd of horses pick their way up the hillside. Maybe when the horses arrive, Mellondu and Mellonin are fast asleep and unwakeable?

Which woudl be a good thing because we haven't had enough dreams. The tapestry should be taking final shape about now.

It would be kind of cool to do one more days travel, or something, and get there by starlight, or at the next dawn. Erebemlin and Raefindan between the two of them can corral Tharonwe, right? And maybe Erebemlin watches over Tharonwe alone, so that Raefindan (mortal body) can get some rest too, and then Raefindan can also dream some more.

[littlemanpoet]

Wow, Helen. Good stuff! I'm going to have to wait until Sat. for inspiration for dreaming, I fear. I'll see what I can do with Roy.

I'm wondering if there is something that can be done like this: the Elves and Raefindan - carrying Indil as needed - push ahead, Raefindan being rested compared to the rest of the men. And the Rohirrim fall behind (what are they doing for food???). That way, some Elvish stuff could happen when first they get to the Vale, and then the Rohirrim arrive and see some of the results, and then whatever denouement they need, and so on. ????

[mark12_30]

Having slept on it, I'd really prefer Celos. "Silver flow the streams from Celos to Erui." Legolas has introduced it to us. Since he introduced Amroth & Nimrodel to us as well, it seems only fitting.

[littlemanpoet]

Now what? Shall we have them arrive? If so, what do they find there, and who handles what, how?

I do have a notion to post Tharonwe's thoughts...

[mark12_30]

When they do arrive, I will be focused on big stress between Amroth and the mad Nimrodel. They will reunite, sort of-- but it will not be an easy reunion, not cheerful-looking at all, not particularly uplifting for any of the mortals involved.

And there will be serious stress in Mellondu's heart, who has also fallen for the Nimrodel that Amroth once knew. No happy ending there.

THose are my two main foci. What are everyone else's plans? Anyone has a happy ending for somebody? I do have happy ending planned for Mellonin and Ravion. And Nethwador and Bella can be happy too.

Erebemlin will go back to Marigold.

Avarien will find peace.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

What are everyone else's plans? Anyone has a happy ending for somebody?

Indil has been through quite enough to deserve a happy ending. I see no reason why she shouldn't get one. Ie: a loving family, however untraditional it may be.

First though, Elempi and I need to resolve how Indil and Angela are intertwined.

[littlemanpoet]

Ædegard and Leafa will get their happy ending. Jorje is already happy, and will remain so no matter what, considering present company. Raefindan is a tricky one. My plan used to be that he "Enoch'd" out of modern day life but got detoured by the Hand of Eru to this here and now, and that once his task was performed, he would continue to his Enoch adventure. However, with the advent of his Imrazor-ness and the possibility that he is actually an Elf in (what he thought was ) a Human body, radically changes everything. With Angela as Indil's "soul", when Indil arrives at the glade, there will be an immediate joining and Indil will think thoughts and speak words beyond her years.

But here's where it gets sticky. Angela has an "old soul" compared to Indil, but it's still a question of whether the memories of Angela's future will have any effect on Indil. Perhaps there is some kind of magical/spiritual "time-release" such that the initial lucidity in the glade disappears and as Indil grows up, more of Angela's mind and memory and wisdom wake up into her, matching her years.

But here's where it gets even stickier. Is Roy an Elf? That calls into question his parentage in modern times; after all, his lineage has had the span of years of humans for time untold. Is Roy a Human with a suddenly woken up Elven fëa? If so, how does that mesh with his modern experience with all its connections (such as his Christianity)? Assuming, for the sake of this story, that Roy really was Imrazor and has been (by special dispensation) reincarnated for the purposes of the Mysterious One, I can imagine Raefindan reuniting with Mithrellas and them adopting Indil as their daughter. Maybe that will work. Raefindan/Imrazor can eventually die at a ripe old age, being in a Human body (he can last with an Elven fëa because of the power he brings with him from his Faith), and so not "cross over against" his Roy Edwards persona. Can't have the poor bloke in two places at once.

What do you think, Fea? Happy enough ending? Are there any holes in it?

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Tharonwë. I'm leaning toward no redemption. I can see him having a Saruman-like death.

One final thing. My storytelling energy is at an ebb at the moment, as I am again ill with some nasty bug that has me weak in body if not in mental planning; but story writing is different, and I'm tired. I'll write as soon as I feel up to it.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

it's still a question of whether the memories of Angela's future will have any effect on Indil. Perhaps there is some kind of magical/spiritual "time-release" such that the initial lucidity in the glade disappears and as Indil grows up, more of Angela's mind and memory and wisdom wake up into her, matching her years.

I can imagine Raefindan reuniting with Mithrellas and them adopting Indil as their daughter.

Say Raefindan reunites with Mithrellas and adopts Indil, who grows up to be incredibly Angela-esque: where does Roy Edwards's feelings for Angela fit into this? In his incarnation as Mithrellas's lover, do the romantic inclinations of Roy dissipate? I can see them raising Indil, certainly, as Indil is a human descendant of Mithrellas and Imrazor anyhow, and that makes total sense. But with the presence of Angela in her, I'm worried it complicates the situation...

[littlemanpoet]

Say Raefindan reunites with Mithrellas and adopts Indil, who grows up to be incredibly Angela-esque: where does Roy Edwards's feelings for Angela fit into this? In his incarnation as Mithrellas's lover, do the romantic inclinations of Roy dissipate? I can see them raising Indil, certainly, as Indil is a human descendant of Mithrellas and Imrazor anyhow, and that makes total sense. But with the presence of Angela in her, I'm worried it complicates the situation...

Let it do so. No-one ever said story resolutions don't have their "next story" possibilities. I think it would make for a fascinating tale, don't you?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I think it would make for a fascinating tale, don't you?

Yes. But if we ever do a specialized sequel... can it wait a few years? ;)

[littlemanpoet]

Yes. But if we ever do a specialized sequel... can it wait a few years? ;)

Certainly. But that means that I'll have to bug you in a few years and ask if you want to write it.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Certainly. But that means that I'll have to bug you in a few years and ask if you want to write it.

I'll leave you a trail of breadcrumbs to follow. I'm leaving the forum, not the people. I like y'all way too much just to go.

[mark12_30]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Tharonwë. I'm leaning toward no redemption. I can see him having a Saruman-like death.

Hmm, from your latest post methinks you have sniffed something out that I meant to stay hid. Perhaps 'twill be even better with Tharonwe woven in to the finale.

[littlemanpoet]

Fea, my thoughts exactly.

Helen: huh?!? Something I sniffed out? What, that Amroth and Nimrodel are united in the Halls of Mandos? Well son of a gun! Or is that wrong? Do tell!!! :)

[mark12_30]

Well, yeah, what you said. The thing is, Nimrodel is too broken to take ship alone. Amroth can't take her, because he can't "take" Mellondu. Erebemlin could escort her there I suppose but his heart is in Middle-earth now, with Marigold. Anyway, she's too messed up. Mithrellas could take her but Mithrellas has Roy Edwards, on the other hand, to deal with. Or something.

Nimrodel needs a new start; a rebirth. That she can have, if she dies; her rebirth (reincarnation, via new parents, and a new family, elvish style) will be a healing experience for her. And Amroth will then be free to do the same. THey will have a lovely future, all healed up and young again.

THe trick is getting Nimrodel to finally die and go to Mandos. (Amroth is still there, really, having drownded quite thoroughly.) And since elves can only either be killed, or die of a broken heart, well, we have some options for getting Nimrodel to join him. I had planned on the broken-heart bit. But we can discuss it.

[littlemanpoet]

Hmmm... so that means Tharonwë is not thinking clearly, or he would know that sending Nimrodel to Mandos is merely sending her to Amroth. Would Tharonwe be that foolish? Is evil that blind? I suppose so, once bitterness and hatred take over that completely. I guess it works, rather neatly. Feels like almost too neatly.

So does Tharonwe try to kill Mellondu himself? That was his original intention.

[mark12_30]

Hmmm, you're right, it is a little TOO neat. Besides, he wants her for himself. It seems more likely that he would try to kill Mellondu to get her for himself.

Maybe he just unintentionally pushes her heart to the snapping point, with some thoughtless cruelty aimed at some one else..

Perhaps by trying to kill Mellondu.

I should say, that Amroth knows that Nimrodel will have to die in order for them to be together.

[littlemanpoet]

I'm glad I left Nimrodel to you. I had not imagined her aged. I had imagined Tharonwe rushing to her to take her in his hands and threaten to end her life. He will of course be completely disgusted by the change in her, and overcome with revulsion, who knows what he wll do? I will think on it.

[mark12_30]

I think there's plenty of options...

Brainstorms over dishwashing to follow, in no particular order.

Edit: I had posted them but removed them to PM just on thhe off chance that maybe SOMEBODY is reading this. Or might. (Anybody out there?)

[littlemanpoet]

If Fea cannot write for Indil and April 10 comes and goes, I will take her over, more's the pity.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

If Fea cannot write for Indil and April 10 comes and goes, I will take her over, more's the pity.

I'm in the middle of my finals week, having a nasty allergic reaction to B&G puttering with gardens (either that or I caught my roomie's cold). I'm taking a five minute break from a final paper on Conrad's Heart of Darkness (due in the morning), then I need to study for a sit-down lit test I have tomorrow morning (passage identification: title, author, literary/cultural significance; terminology identification as well), and I have a painting due tonight I haven't started, and a final drawing due 'before I leave' which is Thursday.

I should be able to fit one more post in before I'm off the charts (Thursday afternoon), particularly if I know what you have in mind, but I won't be able to do it until after 11am tomorrow.

I wish I could stick around, but if ever there was a writer I trust with my RP characters, it's you, Elempi.

:(

[littlemanpoet]

Thanks for your trust, Fea. I will do my best to honor it. Take care of yourself. I imagine I've put your creative abilities in a bit of a pickle, asking you to think Angela in Indil's brain. I'll help if you want. Let me know.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Thanks for your trust, Fea. I will do my best to honor it. Take care of yourself. I imagine I've put your creative abilities in a bit of a pickle, asking you to think Angela in Indil's brain. I'll help if you want. Let me know.

Help is always appreciated. If you want to co-post, I can check my PMs pretty obsessive compulsively. I have the time for snippets, especially with help. It's only troublesome trying to organize my mind into a solid post entirely of my own doing.

And I don't really know if drinking a caramel frappucchino is taking care of myself, but it definitely makes me feel better. :) As does the fact that tonight I bought an anthology of southern vampire stories. Yay for folklore on sale at Barnes and Noble. I'm just not allowed to read it until AFTER finals are done.

[littlemanpoet]

Ok, I've started a PM post to Fea.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

It's time for me to go, and it's a pity I didn't get to finish before the time came.

You guys can find me at http://aliquisa.livejournal.com, and I lurk on Facebook and Myspace (you can track me through other 'Downers). I'll be findable.

I'm sorry I couldn't stay longer, and I just wanted to let you all know, I loved working with you.

-Fea/Laura

[mark12_30]

All the best, Fea, and God's blessing on you. We will miss you. Enjoy your new road.

[littlemanpoet]

Fea-Laura, I will miss your creative touch here. I will with sadness but no regret take over Angela/Indil; no regret because you have done so well and I have much resource to draw from. Thanks so much for your willingness with the character. You will not be forgotten, and I will keep you in my sights down the road. Take care. Who knows what the future may bring?

-Paul/Elempi

Well, Helen, it's pretty much just you and me from here on out, there not being much I can see for Bergil to do except willingly give Indil into Raefindan's and Mithrellas' care during the denouement.

So I don't really have that strict a deadline now. None of my rpgs have wrapped up yet, and I don't see the necessity of this being the first one to finish. Not that I want it to drag on, but it can take the time it needs.

The way I see it, there is a post coming from me yet that involves Indil/Angela, Roy/Raefindan, and Mithrellas; while they are preoccupied with their triangular drama they will be somewhat oblivious to the troubles Tharonwe imposes upon Nimrodel and Amroth. I can write two posts in that regard, one from the perspective of Roy, and the other from Tharonwe. The one from Tharonwe will require more thought as I'm not sure just what he hopes to achieve if not killing Nimrodel and himself. He's not such a fool that he won't eventually see that by killing Nimrodel he sends her into a future with Amroth, so I'm not sure what he'll try to do next. Probably try to kill Mellondu outright.

What direction do you expect to take in your next posts?

[mark12_30]

Simply put: currently Amroth is standing on the shores of sanity, calling to Nimrodel. SHe's not responding. He will draw back, gather strength, and follow her into her madness, in order to meet her in the depths of it and finally bring her back.

I envision it to be a kind of retracing of her steps-- whether in reverse chronological order or in normal chronological order I hadn't decided: but since they've all been dreaming about bits and peices of her life til now, it will pull all the tapestry threads tighter, and perhaps form the whole picture and make everyone's part in it clear. I hope.

It would have been so much easier to have each character's writer taking part. I miss everyone keenly now. But there it is. I could wish for a dream-summary but I do not have the time this month to reread the whole RPG, so I will have to just do the best I can.
\
Mithrellas should be a large part of the warp and woof. BUt I am not sure how to approach that. A constant stream of self-sacrifice has been coming from her, for a thousand years. That should be huge. SHould be huge. Should be. How do we make it enough? Amroth's debt to Mithrellas-- well, I don't know. Perhaps it might cross his mind that if only she had been alone she might have gone on to Mandos a long time ago, and met him there. But then, he's too noble to let that stew for long; he'd set it aside. I hope. RIght?

[mark12_30]

Should I wait for the post from you and Fea?

[littlemanpoet]

Our PM post never got started, so it's up to you and me. I'll write as the inspiration comes. You do the same. We'll see how it threads together. Since there's only two of us (for all practical purposes) we can edit in whatever we want wherever we want.

As far as researching dreams, perhaps an advanced Search on dreams might be doable with a very tight "from-to" set. That way we may be able to access what we need without having to search the entire haystack.

Regarding Mithrellas, I recently learned something important about the nature of self-sacrifice. It goes like this: Jesus was able to face his passion & crucifixion on 2 bases: (1) his love for us, and (2) they joy that awaited him. Remember, he gave up all the glory of his deity when he came, so he faced it as a human without sin. Similarly, Aragorn was able to live a long life of self-sacrifice for love of Gondor, Hobbits, Arwen, Gandalf, and many others; and for the joy that awaited him once all was achieved.

So we have precedent from two good sources for Mithrellas. If she is nothing else, she is strong. She has been able to keep her hope alive throughout a millenium of her Lady's despair, and she has been able to keep her mind safe from the wiles of Tharonwe; not only the wiles, but he didn't even know she existed! That is strong! And noble! And pure. Holy, even. You do see where I'm going with this?

[mark12_30]

So we have precedent from two good sources for Mithrellas. If she is nothing else, she is strong. She has been able to keep her hope alive throughout a millenium of her Lady's despair, and she has been able to keep her mind safe from the wiles of Tharonwe; not only the wiles, but he didn't even know she existed! That is strong! And noble! And pure. Holy, even. You do see where I'm going with this?

Not yet, but I think that wherever you are going, I think I like it a lot.

[littlemanpoet]

Should I post next for Tharonwe and/or Raefindan and/or Indil?

How do you see what's next?

[mark12_30]

Yup.

I see Amroth and Erebemlin essentially coming up for air, recognising that they weren't getting very far, deciding to "go in after her" (I need an elvish way to say that) and follow Nimrodel into the grim darkness, like Aragorn did with Eowyn and Faramir. Only, with Nimrodel having been there a long time, it will be a long slow journey.

It can progress through all those dreams. I think that's the best roadmap for us to take. All the tentacles, drownings, ash, despair, accusations, railing against the Valar... etc. Amroth nowhere to be found in all of it. Avarien's departure; Gwyllion's gruesome departure. All of that should weave in.

[littlemanpoet]

I'm feeling at sea and rather intimidated. Maybe it's I'm tired and am not quite ready for such a load of research into past posts. Yike. I'm not even sure what Tharonwe would even want to try to do. See, he's disgusted by Nimrodel's agedness, for he himself has not aged, as such. So his love (greed/lust, whatever) has been swallowed up by disgust and hatred. So now he actually hates both Amroth and Nimrodel, and does not want her for himself after all, but just wants to defeat them both, precisely because all he has attempted in all of this has turned to ashes, though caused by his own deeds. That doesn't matter to him. But how on earth can he defeat them both? Not by killing them. The only way he can think of (I can think of) is to doom Amroth to a forever searching for Nimrodel in the depths of wherever she is - some kind of limbo. Tharonwe has developed his osanwe with the addition of hypnosis now, and that should be a powerful tool.... somehow. But that's the best I can do, for him. Raefindan is by contrast easy. He will simply attempt to defeat whatever Tharonwe tries to do.

Thoughts?

[mark12_30]

Hey, I'm good at angst and the brink of despair. Bring it on.

Raefindan-- he will fight it, being a good sort, but surely-- if Amroth and Erebemlin are following her (porposefully) into the heart of all her darkness, Raefindan can't-- nor would he-- fend everything off that Tharonwe tries to throw at them.

There's couselling like that; bringing the victim into the heart of their darkness-- mentally returning to the crime scene at the time of the crime-- and THEN looking for Jesus in the midst of it, and sensing the freedom he brings. But the mental return to the crime scene is never easy. There's plenty of darkness there.

Tharonwe (here) can play thepart of the accuser very easily. If Amroth gets immersed in NImrodel's despair, and Nimrodel stays stuck in it, then they both lose. He doesn't have to kill them; their madness will be even better. And if even Erebemlin gets lost in the dark?

They will be walking back through all of Nimrodel's anguish. They will not find Amroth in any of it, not until they get back to the root of it (although echoes of the root's accusations will be howling all the time, she can't be free from it til she gets to the root itself.

Raefindan can't hope to solve any of it for Nimrodel; she has to hear the truth herself, back at the root of her lies. But he can provide some light-rays for Amroth and Erebemlin.

We can do this one dream at a time. THe first scene they recollect, and travel through, could be her travel into the vale they are in now, with its ghosts. There was also ice there, until recently. And it was full of Tharonwe's lies. We could start there.... ice. Hmm, which post was that...

[mark12_30]

OK< I did some skimming. Mostly, lately, thedreams have been about Roy and indil. SO mightn't it be appropriate if the first working backward part --- or maybe even the intro to it-- was more about Mithrellas, Imrazor, INdil, Roy, Angela?

It would set the stage as to why Indil (Angela) was the answer to Avarien's searching. (Which I admit I'm currently a bit fuzzy on, but it's working/worked.) Amroth and Erebemlin can rest up, a little, & Ravion, Mellonin, and Nethwador too, while part of the indil story is told.

Maybe it begins with Tharonwe's resentment, and his need to remain important/ influential desite his sudden loss of interest in Nimrodel? Maybe it's time to flesh out the dark elf and explain his twistedness to the audience?

[littlemanpoet]

Can we handle these posts via PM? I think I can do better in a collaboration by interacting with what you write, instead of posting separately. I'm busy all day today, but tomorrow looks better. But PM me as soon as you like if this sounds good to you.

[littlemanpoet]

How about if we built these posts via email? I'll get started unless you beat me to it.

[mark12_30]

WHile in theory I would be delighted, however, I will be away from my daytime email for the next month.

I have been working like a doggie, offsite, all week. It will continue til the end of May/ beginning of June.

Hopefully May will be slightlyless consuming than End-Of-April is. Consolation: it's really fun. Translation: email me at cox, til June.

[mark12_30]

Ah, lmp, it's good! Can't reply tonight, but will ponder this.

[mark12_30]

lmp-- I'm theoretically up for writing, just kind of bowled over with life right now. It would be good therapy. Maybe one of these days at 2 am when I can't sleep for worrying about work.

[littlemanpoet]

We're so close to the end, and my other rpgs will not be done any time soon. So we can take the time this needs to take. Hope you like what I've been up to with Tharonwe lately....

[mark12_30]

Yes, brilliant. Which is good, because it (you) is/are holding my interest even if I'm not responding...

I'm eye-deep in research, at work, and it's a hug3e struggle. All my energy is going into that.

[littlemanpoet]

Wow, Helen! That was some post! Not sure how to follow that up unless from Tharonwe's point of view.

[littlemanpoet]

Fascinating posts, Helen.

Tharonwe will bide his time as described in my last post.

Do you need help with what the others can do to help? Or do you have a sense for it?

[mark12_30]

Dive in! I don't have much of a sense for the team-mates at all. Nethwador's awkward but heartfelt attempts are about all i have clear vision for. GUess I should review back a bit on the discussion thread...

[littlemanpoet]

As time permits, I'll do an advanced search on the word 'dream', trying a limit to our rpg threads. I'll let you know how that works.

The following are all the dream posts I could find in Tapestry 2.

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=551764&postcount=153
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=550964&postcount=151
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=550943&postcount=150
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=550888&postcount=149
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=536883&postcount=124
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=536809&postcount=122
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=533493&postcount=105
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=532847&postcount=101
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=523419&postcount=59
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=493561&postcount=18
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491113&postcount=11

[littlemanpoet]

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=387868&postcount=696
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=385532&postcount=693
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=384466&postcount=689
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=382097&postcount=679
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=365341&postcount=605
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=364484&postcount=603
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=364430&postcount=602

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=363601&postcount=596 - this one is Marigold talking to Erebemlin about his own fate, so ought to come back into play toward the end.

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=363466&postcount=594
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=362915&postcount=590
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=359500&postcount=558
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=357937&postcount=535
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=357915&postcount=532
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=357309&postcount=527
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=357162&postcount=522
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=357051&postcount=518
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=356372&postcount=508
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=355011&postcount=494



That covers pages 14 to the end of Tapestry 1. More later. This takes time. I haven't read all of them, nor tried to process the ones I've read; but this gives us a handy tool to find them at need. Maybe I'll find time to name the dreamer.

[mark12_30]

AWESOME!! Thanks thanks thanks.

I don't think I used the word 'dream' very often, but I know many did....

Remember the songfests during the early days? I don't think we need to review and include e v e r y t h i n g. But there were some Moments in there.

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, I think it would be fun to do this for the songs too. I'm going to tabulate the links according to who dreamt and who sang, so you'll want to keep an eye on those two posts plus the new ones with song links.

[mark12_30]

Pardon me while I take a moment to publicly hope Alak will return. Helloooo, Alak?

lmp, those linked lists (HEE HEE HEE programmers joke) are great. I have poked at a few links and will try to do more shortly.

[alaklondewen]

Pardon me while I take a moment to publicly hope Alak will return. Helloooo, Alak?

lmp, those linked lists (HEE HEE HEE programmers joke) are great. I have poked at a few links and will try to do more shortly.

Okay, Okay...with your responses and my husband's excitement, I would be honored to finish writing the Tapestry with you. I'll need at least a couple of days to be sure I've read everything (I've been keeping up, but as a reader and not writer).

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, Okay...with your responses and my husband's excitement, I would be honored to finish writing the Tapestry with you. I'll need at least a couple of days to be sure I've read everything (I've been keeping up, but as a reader and not writer).

Yay!

One wonders who else might pop back in at the last?

[mark12_30]

Okay, Okay...with your responses and my husband's excitement, I would be honored to finish writing the Tapestry with you. I'll need at least a couple of days to be sure I've read everything (I've been keeping up, but as a reader and not writer).

Woot woot!! Hooray!

Alak, I suggest focusing on lmp's linked lists (aw, I can't stand it, ROFL) several posts back. I know I will be. Great resource...

--questions?

GLEE!

ps. lmp, I skimmed or read through the links so far. Sweet. I had forgotten much.

Could you put lmp's newly linked lists in a new post so I know where to start? THankee!

[alaklondewen]

In the current stage of the story, how do you see Erebemlin's role?

Also, thinking of Taitheneb and Lorien, it crossed my mind of his returning with aid. I'm totally throwing that out there as it's going through me how fresh elves might aid, especially with the threat of Tharonwe.

Let me know what you think...

[mark12_30]

Amroth is nearing the end of "his" strength. Mellondu has desires and intentions of his own, and is feverish (as usual) and also physically weakened by all of this intense travel.

Erebemlin still has his physical strength, and although he may feel weary by elf-standards and be looking forwward to resolving all of this and getting back to Marigold, he is still the strongest one around mentally and physically. (Excepting in some ways or at some times, Roy Edwards, who is full of surprises and in my mind still somewhat undefined. I imagine lmp has much left up his sleeve.)

So: currently Erebemlin is helping Amroth by holding Nimrodel, like a child, on Amroth's behalf as Amroth remains near her and is trying to take Nimrodel via osanwe through her insanity and out the other side. Remember Aragorn calling the black breath victims up and out of their darkness, while he was in the houses of healing? Like that, only there is a lot more to sift through. Amroth is weary, and more vulnerable than strong. Nimrodel is just plain mad. Erebemlin is essentially supporting them both, physically and osanwe-wise (and strength of will.) While they travel through Nimrodel's madness, Erebemlin will generally let Amroth lead much of the time, when Amroth can. But how much strength of will is left to Amroth, time will tell. He is nearly spent, and he is leaning hard on Erebemlin. THere will be times where Erebemlin picks up the reins, and leads until Amroth regains his strength.

And if they both get into trouble, the rest of the team will come into play.

Regarding Taitheneb: How I've missed him. I'd love to see him again.

[mark12_30]

Alak: I just put up a sort of demo post. Feedback? Is that something you can work with?

I'm off to bed shortly... Alak, I am so glad to see you about. Yay!

lmp-- shout anytime.

[alaklondewen]

Actually, Helen...that was perfect. You answered my question and gave me stuff to work with. I so appreciate it. ^_^

[littlemanpoet]

I'll see what I can do regarding Tharonwe.

There is another Elf: Mithrellas. What could she do in terms of osanwe?

And Roy Edwards continues to be full of possibility, as you say. I'll have to give this some thought. Maybe I can have another post or two up by the end of the week.

[littlemanpoet]

More dreams:

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=351556&postcount=470
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=347913&postcount=439
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=347025&postcount=431
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=346931&postcount=430
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=342007&postcount=415

[mark12_30]

Reviewing some old (old!) posts in the first book: When The Lady Estelyn released (or, actually, refused to release!) Mellonin from her service as talekeeper at the Inn (Seventh Star), , she put a charge on her: to write down her adventures, and upon her return, place the story in the library.

Good heavens, Mellonin has been woefully delinquent! Or, at least, "we" haven't been mentioning her spurts of writing.

I wonder whether she lost her "writing material" that Estelyn gave her. Or perhaps, it ended up deep in Ravion's pack, with a few old notes, abandoned once things got a bit rough. Perhaps Ravion has been secretly cherishing it, and he will return it to her first real chance he gets. When he remembers it.

I may doctor a few older posts, to add that in....

And while I am here: Song posts: THey start from here

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=316932&postcount=82

and go til post 94;
and then one more at
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=317855&postcount=99

page six is about the merchant scuffle, and the suffocating dust...

[mark12_30]

A moment of hope. We'll need a few ups among the downs.

Happy Friday, team!

From page nine:
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=10385&page=9

[mark12_30]

Top of the first book:
http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=10385
Top of the first discussion thread:
http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=10334

What happens next as Nimrodel relives the past:

Mithrellas, stung by Nimrodel's fury, will linger near her, til Imrazor finds her, courts her, and marries her. She leaves Nimrodel long enough to raise a family. ...
From the first discussion thread, towards the bottom of post # 9: (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=305620&postcount=9)
After Mithrellas leaves Imrazor she returns to the mountains to look for Nimrodel. She travels far west (towards Lefnui?) and finds the wandering Nimrodel, and persuades her to return to Edhellond and look for Amroth.

(While Mithrellas was married to Imrazor and raising a family: )
Nimrodel has found Amroth's corpse (uncorrupt) washed up on shore, somewhere on the Belfalas. Since he is uncorrupt, she hopes in the possibility he might return to that body instead of being reborn as an infant, so she lays him in a few feet of clear water (a la dead marshes, only he doesn't rot) and waits (for a couple of decades) over his body for him to return.

But the Valar don't want to send Amroth back; They want her to come west; so they wait, hoping that she'll catch the next ship. Amroth is stuck in Mandos, waiting and hoping.

Nimrodel waits beside Amroth's body for a long time; however, Nothing Happens, (while Mithrellas and Imrazor are happily building a family, and Amroth is waiting in the Halls of Mandos for her to sail west.) and eventually Nimrodel despairs and loses her reason.

She returns alone to the mountains, where she finds the Stone of Erech. She waits there, drawn to it in her madness and despair, and the dead come. She recognizes their despair in hers, and chooses to stay with them, dwelling in her memories of Amroth while she is awake, and dreaming of him while she sleeps. In her madness she willingly participates in their curse. The Valar realize this and further refuse to send Amroth back to her while she is under the curse.

Mithrellas finds her, after a long hard search. She waits on her, and takes care of her. For long years they dwell there, til Nimrodel forgets her name and takes the names given her by the dead. but Although the curse burdens, opresses and wearies her, Mithrellas brings food to Nimrodel and never abandons her. When Elessar breaks the curse and frees the Dead during the War of the Ring, Nimrodel and Mithrellas are freed as well. (Nimrodel is, however, still mad, completely living in memories of Amroth.) They wander west from Erech, through the cleft above the penninsula that juts into the bay of Belfalas, straight to the coast. They follow the coast up through Enedwaith over the mouth of the Isen, up into Miniriath, to the mouth of the Baranduin. There they halt; short of the havens, they turn south and return to Belfalas.

EDIT: or to the vale where they are now.

This progression, with the dreams and songs, should wrap up the tale. Hopefully we can use this as a framework, or as a warp, weaving in the woof of the dreams & songs as we go.

[littlemanpoet]

Yike! Have I misinterpreted Mithrellas as too strong of spirit?

More dreams:

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=337582&postcount=391
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=335342&postcount=378
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=335070&postcount=373

I'm out of time for now. More later.

[mark12_30]

I say, it's raining! We were going to go to the local forest, and hike. BUt we will do our hiking virtually, beside Frodo and Sam. Today we are going to watch Fellowship!

And in between, or besides, or maybe during the "geez couldn't he have put something more important into this space" parts, I wll be poking about in the old story, and maybe adding a bit to the new book... but I will check here periodically.

Alak-- Don't feel like you have to review EVERYTHING before you can post ANYTHING. If something is out of whack we will gently and kindly give you a nudge, so give it a shot. We trust you!

[mark12_30]

Yike! Have I misinterpreted Mithrellas as too strong of spirit?

NO NO NO, she is more yours than mine!! THat's from an old outline written in the beginning of things (LIKE FOUR OR FIVE YEARS AGO???) so of course it needs adjustment. I put it up more for the map value than the character stuff. THey are who they are, at this point.

In fact let me know where my outline needs Mithrellas-adjustment and I will edit accordingly so that we are all on the same (pro-Mithrellas) page. Nimrodel NEEDS a strong friend, don't weaken her now!

[littlemanpoet]

Whew! :p Don't worry about the outline. The story that is being finished up is what counts, not the old outline. Thanks for the reassurance.

By the way, I have not forgotten about Jorje. His role will yet be critical. You will see. :)

[littlemanpoet]

More dreams:

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=332313&postcount=329
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=329779&postcount=299
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=329692&postcount=297
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=328959&postcount=285
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=328722&postcount=282
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=327595&postcount=270
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=325790&postcount=252

Pages 1 - 6 yet to go, and then I can start on the songs.

I have a plot contradiction to deal with. In posts 290ff, Tharonwe forces Raefindan to dream of himself as Imrazor and of Imrazor killing Mithrellas. Then in recent posts I have had Tharonwe not having realized Mithrellas was even there, caring for Nimrodel. How on earth do I resolve this? What was Tharonwe's reason for trying to confuse Raefindan regarding Mithrellas in the first place? Ack!

[mark12_30]

I have a plot contradiction to deal with. In posts 290ff, Tharonwe forces Raefindan to dream of himself as Imrazor and of Imrazor killing Mithrellas. Then in recent posts I have had Tharonwe not having realized Mithrellas was even there, caring for Nimrodel. How on earth do I resolve this? What was Tharonwe's reason for trying to confuse Raefindan regarding Mithrellas in the first place? Ack!

Maybe it is the strength of Mithrellas herself, who caused Tharonwe to, ahem, forget.

The Valar caused Amroth to "forget" 1000 years of history, and waiting, a couple of times.

Tharonwe's been so busy torturing the important folks he forgot, or perhaps discounted, the quiet unassuming servants. If they're quiet and unassuming, they must be insignificant anyway. ...Just a thought or so. But I like the idea of Mithrellas hiding herself from Tharonwe, and "letting " him conveniently forget her.

[mark12_30]

Whew! :p Don't worry about the outline. The story that is being finished up is what counts, not the old outline. Thanks for the reassurance.

By the way, I have not forgotten about Jorje. His role will yet be critical. You will see. :)


Er, well, I am not WORRIED about theoutline, but I would like to know which parts set off your alarms. Mithrellas is stronger than... what? Specifically?

Wanting to be on the same page, and all.

[littlemanpoet]

Yet more dreams:

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=323629&postcount=209
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=323527&postcount=202
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=320653&postcount=144
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=307420&postcount=9

Don't think I missed any, but who can be sure? Next, the songs.

[littlemanpoet]

Maybe it is the strength of Mithrellas herself, who caused Tharonwe to, ahem, forget.

The Valar caused Amroth to "forget" 1000 years of history, and waiting, a couple of times.

Tharonwe's been so busy torturing the important folks he forgot, or perhaps discounted, the quiet unassuming servants. If they're quiet and unassuming, they must be insignificant anyway. ...Just a thought or so. But I like the idea of Mithrellas hiding herself from Tharonwe, and "letting " him conveniently forget her.

I think it was the part about Mithrellas also forgetting her name; that would to me signify a weakness of spirit that wouldn't jibe with the strength I've come to see in her. I realize that the forgetting had to do with the curse, which I suppose I could allow to stand as it is, but somehow I just can't see Mithrellas giving in completely to such a curse.

I do like your idea about Mithrellas causing Tharonwe to forget about her amid all his concern about Amroth, Erebemlin, and Roy Edwards and Indil, even - which would be perfect irony. :)

[mark12_30]

I think it was the part about Mithrellas also forgetting her name; that would to me signify a weakness of spirit that wouldn't jibe with the strength I've come to see in her. I realize that the forgetting had to do with the curse, which I suppose I could allow to stand as it is, but somehow I just can't see Mithrellas giving in completely to such a curse.


Mithrellas finds her, after a long hard search. She waits on her, and takes care of her. For long years they dwell there, til Nimrodel forgets her name and takes the names given her by the dead. but Although the curse burdens, opresses and wearies her, Mithrellas brings food to Nimrodel and never abandons her. When Elessar breaks the curse and frees the Dead during the War of the Ring, Nimrodel and Mithrellas are freed as well.

Edited; better?

[alaklondewen]

Well, I was working on a post that involved a flash forward to her wandering in the mountains, but then I reread the outline and saw that Mithrellas leaves first, then she finds Amroths body, all before wandering. Not sure how to go about the next part, but I am working on it.

Any advice would be most appreciated as I'm working on the dream sequence stuff.

Thanks!

[littlemanpoet]

Edited; better?
Yup, thanks. :)

Alak, I really don't know what advice to give you. Just keep at it, and if there are any problems we'll give you gentle feeback. K? :)

[mark12_30]

Also: we don't have to go into grim and gory detail for each and every event. Or we'll be here til 2012.... Somestuff can be flashback, or, 'she remembered forty years of such and such as if it were yesterday..." If you have a "wandering" post that you like, either slap it onto the game thread and see what we think, or, put it up here, and we'll either run with it, or, save it til the right moment, and fit it in that way.

We'll work with ya, Alak!!

[littlemanpoet]

Mellondu

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=307407&postcount=1

Liornung

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=314211&postcount=48
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=315109&postcount=65
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=316932&postcount=82 (2nd)
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=317273&postcount=87 (2nd)
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=317652&postcount=93
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=317855&postcount=99
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=319306&postcount=116
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=320045&postcount=135
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=325820&postcount=253
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=326320&postcount=259
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=329963&postcount=304
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=330024&postcount=306
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=336872&postcount=389
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=352112&postcount=477
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=357203&postcount=524
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=367438&postcount=621
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=378382&postcount=655

Ædegard

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=316932&postcount=82 (1st)
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=317086&postcount=83
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=317092&postcount=85
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=317273&postcount=87 (1st)
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=326956&postcount=263
http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=501172&postcount=30

Amroth

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=317089&postcount=84
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=317657&postcount=94

Bellyn

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=317480&postcount=91
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=324528&postcount=223
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=326288&postcount=257
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=335605&postcount=382
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=358620&postcount=552
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=382097&postcount=679

Argeleafa

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=332367&postcount=332

Marigold

http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=370009&postcount=627

There are very few songs in Tapestry 2. More dreams, though. That is all of them.

[mark12_30]

YeeeeeOW! You da man!!!

[littlemanpoet]

You're welcome. :D

My next project is to organize the dreams by who dreamed them. :eek:

[mark12_30]

Yoicks!

"Tarry in Jerusalem til you are endued with power from on high..." methinks you'll need it...! :D

Meanwhile I'm off to serenade my pillow.

[alaklondewen]

There are times when I think the two of you have had too much coffee.

And I'm going to go with the wandering post...I'll have it up tonight, otherwise, it would be longer to work out something else.